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Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:10 pm

cat3appr50 wrote:
Anybody have an educated guess (by general past experience that is with new aircraft flight testing, absolutely not asking for any confidential information) what the total (ballpark) payload may be at this point of flight testing (engineers, techs., ops. people, test eqpt., ballast, etc.)?

Not very high. Seeing as it’s only the two pilots onboard and engineering equipment
 
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PITingres
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:12 pm

bikerthai wrote:
:scratchchin: What do you gain by testing at altitude early?
bt


Indeed, and in fact that suggests to me that I might have it backwards. Rather than lots of low altitude things to check, maybe there is a dearth of high altitude tests that need to be done early. Why do you go high early? maybe to validate the fuselage basics; but this one isn't changed, so there's perhaps no need to verify basic calculations early on in testing.
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:24 am

Opus99 wrote:
Nothing technical or weather based caused the go around. Basically there was a wingspan conflict with an aircraft that was holding. So they had to go around unless the wing would’ve hit that aircraft.



I find that very hard to believe, even with the wing tips extended there’s more than adequate clearance for a landing aircraft.
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Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:26 am

Max Q wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Nothing technical or weather based caused the go around. Basically there was a wingspan conflict with an aircraft that was holding. So they had to go around unless the wing would’ve hit that aircraft.



I find that very hard to believe, even with the wing tips extended there’s more than adequate clearance for a landing aircraft.

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carlokiii
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:50 am

So I guess the 77X is and will still be considered a Code F aircraft on the runway... a major impediment the A380 and 748 faced in a few airports where problems with runway operations were much more considerable than the limited gate infrastructure/space.
 
johnclipper
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:24 am

Still no confirmation from anyone about the top anti-collision light. Does it have one? Not have one? In-op?
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Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:57 am

johnclipper wrote:
Still no confirmation from anyone about the top anti-collision light. Does it have one? Not have one? In-op?

It’s something I really don’t understand. It doesn’t seem to have one because but even at that I can’t see the logic behind it
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:00 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK-Fapx1zeg

Really nice video of the Spokane visit yesterday
 
WoodysAeroimag
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:12 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
Any idea when the 2nd test bird will have her first flight?


The 2nd 777X test frame is tentatively scheduled for its first flight before the end of February from what I was told yesterday by a Boeing employee
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flipdewaf
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:18 pm

Opus99 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK-Fapx1zeg

Really nice video of the Spokane visit yesterday

That is pretty! The quality of the recording and the HDR thing that seems to be going inn makes it look like it’s fake almost. That wing in the approach at the start, glorious! The 777 has grown up very gracefully.

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RRUltrafan
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:06 am

Opus99 wrote:
johnclipper wrote:
Still no confirmation from anyone about the top anti-collision light. Does it have one? Not have one? In-op?

It’s something I really don’t understand. It doesn’t seem to have one because but even at that I can’t see the logic behind it


Why would/wouldn't it have an anti collision light on the top?
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:07 am

RRUltrafan wrote:
Why would/wouldn't it have an anti collision light on the top?


The light on top and bottom are not anti collision light.

Per Wiki, those lights are beacon lights to warm ground personal that the plane is powered and engines are on.

The wing tips lights are considered anti-collision lights.

bt
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RRUltrafan
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:15 am

bikerthai wrote:
RRUltrafan wrote:
Why would/wouldn't it have an anti collision light on the top?


The light on top and bottom are not anti collision light.

Per Wiki, those lights are beacon lights to warm ground personal that the plane is powered and engines are on.

The wing tips lights are considered anti-collision lights.

bt

yeah I was confused about that, but on the 737 at least the anti collision lights are the beacon lights (according to the zibo and online pictures of the overhead panel).
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enzo011
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:32 am

bikerthai wrote:
:scratchchin: What do you gain by testing at altitude early?



Nobody knows what they will be testing for on what timeline so we are in the dark in regards to what is actually happening and if it is supposed to be happening as well. They could be ahead of schedule already, even if they haven't been up to high altitudes or speed yet. Or they could be behind due to information obtained from the first few flights and have items to review. Only those in the Flight Test department will know.

Here is the A350 Flight Tests Official Thread from way back.
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:03 am

enzo011 wrote:
bikerthai wrote:
:scratchchin: What do you gain by testing at altitude early?



Nobody knows what they will be testing for on what timeline so we are in the dark in regards to what is actually happening and if it is supposed to be happening as well. They could be ahead of schedule already, even if they haven't been up to high altitudes or speed yet. Or they could be behind due to information obtained from the first few flights and have items to review. Only those in the Flight Test department will know.

Here is the A350 Flight Tests Official Thread from way back.

They’ve tested at high speed but not high altitude
 
johnclipper
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:15 am

Y'all can be so anal-retentive at times...I meant the beacon lights (or in my day - the ROTATING beacon lights) - you know, the RED ones on the top and bottom of the fuselage (that is the correct term still, right)? Looks like everyone else is stumped since no one can answer, but just make comments on the terminology.
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:30 pm

O.K. I think I found it.

https://www.boeing.com/commercial/777/#/gallery

If you look at the linked photo, you'll see that on the top of Section 43 (right above the "B"), there is the top beacon light. This matches with the 777-300 light.

Edit:

However, if you look at the Sam Chui video on the fist flight (from the jet way) you can clearly see that the light is not there. So it may have been installed later. :scratchchin:

bt
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777222LR
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:40 pm

Looking at the renderings on Boeing's site now, they sure seemed to have dialed back the interior mock ups quite a bit. Also, the engine nacelles seem to be lacking the large metal inlets vs. what we have been seeing in real life, seeming to go back to what we've seen on previous 777 versions. Anyone think it might be going away?

Edit: I should probably look at the 777x instead of the 777-300ER. ;-)
 
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777222LR
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:45 pm

bikerthai wrote:
O.K. I think I found it.

https://www.boeing.com/commercial/777/#/gallery

If you look at the linked photo, you'll see that on the top of Section 43 (right above the "B"), there is the top beacon light. This matches with the 777-300 light.

Edit:

However, if you look at the Sam Chui video on the fist flight (from the jet way) you can clearly see that the light is not there. So it may have been installed later. :scratchchin:

bt



You linked a photo of the 777-300ER, not the 777x. Which lead to my confusing reply above. ;-)
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:03 pm

Yeah, I got confused too I guess. If you look at some of the customer rendering, they do show the anti-collision light there. May have to look at some of the other frames on the flight line to see if the lights are there/or not.

bt
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Ishrion
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:19 am

Bamboo Airways expects to buy 12 777Xs worth $5 billion. The order expects to be placed in Q2 2020.

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/202 ... -jets.html
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:18 am

Delete
 
EK7777
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:33 pm

 
Noshow
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:42 pm

Thanks for the link.
Is something wrong with it's pressurization? 20 flights and none much higher than 20k feet? Do they need to wait for something before they can climb to actual cruise altitudes? Did any other Boeing test plane before remain so low for so long?
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:43 pm

Noshow wrote:
Thanks for the link.
Is something wrong with it's pressurization? 20 flights and none much higher than 20k feet? Do they need to wait for something before they can climb to actual cruise altitudes? Did any other Boeing test plane before remain so low for so long?

I know when they’re done with initial airworthiness testing the aircraft is allowed to climb higher and other aircrafts join it along with engineers onboard. But on previous programs the aircraft usually reaches 30,000 feet. The 787 had about 60 hours of flying and has reached 30K feet before achieving airworthiness. I don’t know if maybe 20,000 is what Boeing is working with on this particular airworthiness and then focusing on other things such as aerodynamics, stall and flutter etc.
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:39 am

Someone started a thread that BA is taking their 777x order up to 30 orders (rumour). Don’t know if anyone else had heard this rumour or saw this thread (it was deleted by the moderators soon after it was started). I’m not sure how true the rumour is though
 
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scbriml
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:55 am

Opus99 wrote:
Someone started a thread that BA is taking their 777x order up to 30 orders (rumour). Don’t know if anyone else had heard this rumour or saw this thread (it was deleted by the moderators soon after it was started). I’m not sure how true the rumour is though


It was basically a "someone at work said..." with zero credibility. I wouldn't put money on it if I were you until we hear something a bit more substantial.
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Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:58 am

scbriml wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Someone started a thread that BA is taking their 777x order up to 30 orders (rumour). Don’t know if anyone else had heard this rumour or saw this thread (it was deleted by the moderators soon after it was started). I’m not sure how true the rumour is though


It was basically a "someone at work said..." with zero credibility. I wouldn't put money on it if I were you until we hear something a bit more substantial.

Oh right! Thank you. Okay wanted to make sure it was just hearsay
 
VV
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:11 pm

Noshow wrote:
Thanks for the link.
Is something wrong with it's pressurization? 20 flights and none much higher than 20k feet? Do they need to wait for something before they can climb to actual cruise altitudes? Did any other Boeing test plane before remain so low for so long?


I guess it is because it has a new wing.

They need to do a lot of stall tests with different flat settings and landing gear position (extended, retracted and so on).

In addition I am pretty sure they want to get enough handling quality data to "calibrate" the engineering mathematical model to match the actual behavior of the aircraft.

They also need to adjust the flight control accordingly.

I think everything is just normal and there's nothing exceptional here.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:38 pm

VV wrote:
I think everything is just normal and there's nothing exceptional here.


Although it is not unheard of for a new program to be short of parts. Sometimes when developing new hardware gets delayed and they have to limit certain flight parameters until the parts is completely certified.

Pure speculation on my part, but things like that happens. I'm going through something like that now, not with a new design but a modified design that had a very long lead part and the supplier did not remember to order the new parts with enough lead time. So we will bump up to the delivery deadline with temporary parts until the need parts arrive. Meanwhile flight tests continues.

bt
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VV
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:01 pm

bikerthai wrote:
VV wrote:
I think everything is just normal and there's nothing exceptional here.


Although it is not unheard of for a new program to be short of parts. Sometimes when developing new hardware gets delayed and they have to limit certain flight parameters until the parts is completely certified.

Pure speculation on my part, but things like that happens. I'm going through something like that now, not with a new design but a modified design that had a very long lead part and the supplier did not remember to order the new parts with enough lead time. So we will bump up to the delivery deadline with temporary parts until the need parts arrive. Meanwhile flight tests continues.

bt


That's possible, although it is more likely they're doing a lot of flap/slat angle setting to get a good Vs1g and Vsr especially for landing config.

Let's not forget this is an aircraft with a long fuselage and heavier than 777-300ER. They need to get the configuration right early.
The approach speed has to be optimized properly.
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:46 pm

VV wrote:
bikerthai wrote:
VV wrote:
I think everything is just normal and there's nothing exceptional here.


Although it is not unheard of for a new program to be short of parts. Sometimes when developing new hardware gets delayed and they have to limit certain flight parameters until the parts is completely certified.

Pure speculation on my part, but things like that happens. I'm going through something like that now, not with a new design but a modified design that had a very long lead part and the supplier did not remember to order the new parts with enough lead time. So we will bump up to the delivery deadline with temporary parts until the need parts arrive. Meanwhile flight tests continues.

bt


That's possible, although it is more likely they're doing a lot of flap/slat angle setting to get a good Vs1g and Vsr especially for landing config.

Let's not forget this is an aircraft with a long fuselage and heavier than 777-300ER. They need to get the configuration right early.
The approach speed has to be optimized properly.

Yes this is a lot of what they’ve been doing with recent flight tests.
 
VV
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:16 am

Opus99 wrote:
VV wrote:
...


That's possible, although it is more likely they're doing a lot of flap/slat angle setting to get a good Vs1g and Vsr especially for landing config.

Let's not forget this is an aircraft with a long fuselage and heavier than 777-300ER. They need to get the configuration right early.
The approach speed has to be optimized properly.

Yes this is a lot of what they’ve been doing with recent flight tests.


Does anyone know if the second flight test article is almost ready to join the flight tests?

It should start to fly soon, maybe next week?
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:18 am

VV wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
VV wrote:
...


That's possible, although it is more likely they're doing a lot of flap/slat angle setting to get a good Vs1g and Vsr especially for landing config.

Let's not forget this is an aircraft with a long fuselage and heavier than 777-300ER. They need to get the configuration right early.
The approach speed has to be optimized properly.

Yes this is a lot of what they’ve been doing with recent flight tests.


Does anyone know if the second flight test article is almost ready to join the flight tests?

It should start to fly soon, maybe next week?

Haven’t seen much of an update. But apparently they say it should fly before the end of Feb. Given we haven’t seen any taxi tests I’m not sure. Maybe all will happen next week?
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:24 pm

Some photos of the flightdeck of N779XW

Image

Image

Image

Image

https://twitter.com/AeronewsGlobal/stat ... 08096?s=20
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Noshow
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:29 pm

Yes. Thanks. Finally. Looks very nice.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:44 pm

That’s CGI.
 
aeropix
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:02 pm

Noshow wrote:
Thanks for the link.
Is something wrong with it's pressurization? 20 flights and none much higher than 20k feet? Do they need to wait for something before they can climb to actual cruise altitudes? Did any other Boeing test plane before remain so low for so long?


Maybe they don’t want a big explosion in flight like the one on the shop floor pressure test? The fuselage bending moments on the longer fuselage in real flight situations vs. the static test must be a big “unknown” at the moment. Computational fluid dynamics is not perfect so maybe they limit the pressure differential while they are still sorting out why the test article exploded short of its test goals?
 
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Revelation
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:44 pm

aeropix wrote:
Maybe they don’t want a big explosion in flight like the one on the shop floor pressure test? The fuselage bending moments on the longer fuselage in real flight situations vs. the static test must be a big “unknown” at the moment. Computational fluid dynamics is not perfect so maybe they limit the pressure differential while they are still sorting out why the test article exploded short of its test goals?

Drama much? They are not going anywhere near 148% ultimate load, and never will in a flight test program.
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:15 pm

aeropix wrote:
Maybe they don’t want a big explosion in flight like the one on the shop floor pressure test?


That failure mode can't happen since the airframe will never exceed 100% load during flight testing or normal airline operation.


aeropix wrote:
The fuselage bending moments on the longer fuselage in real flight situations vs. the static test must be a big “unknown” at the moment.


Quite the opposite, actually.


aeropix wrote:
Computational fluid dynamics is not perfect so maybe they limit the pressure differential while they are still sorting out why the test article exploded short of its test goals?


Again, the Ultimate Load failure is a Red Herring. It has no bearing on the flight test program and will not limit it in any way, period.
 
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Polot
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:24 pm

Stitch wrote:

Again, the Ultimate Load failure is a Red Herring. It has no bearing on the flight test program and will not limit it in any way, period.

:checkmark:

It’s important to remember that the 777X was actually suppose to first fly and begin flight testing last spring, but was delayed due to the engines. The ultimate load test wasn’t performed until last fall (it is normal for ultimate load test to be months after first flight). The load test results are not influencing the current flight testing.
 
VV
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:12 am

If i am not mistaken Boeing will use 4 aircraft for the flight tests.

It is very likely the 3rd flight test article is now almost completed.
Or perhaps they are still installing flight test instruments?

Does anyone know something that can be shared here? Thank you.
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:36 am

VV wrote:
If i am not mistaken Boeing will use 4 aircraft for the flight tests.

It is very likely the 3rd flight test article is now almost completed.
Or perhaps they are still installing flight test instruments?

Does anyone know something that can be shared here? Thank you.

As at two weeks ago it didn’t have engines, so if anything it would only just be getting it’s engines installed

I don’t think Boeing wants to rush with the remaining test aircrafts till WH001 completes initial airworthiness testing (soon...first stall tests are tomorrow I believe) and then they can introduce the other test aircrafts etc
 
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Faro
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:09 pm

We can we expect the first hints/inklings/rumours re actual fuel efficiency?


Faro
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VV
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:10 pm

Faro wrote:
We can we expect the first hints/inklings/rumours re actual fuel efficiency?


Don't expect anything until the end of the year.
 
VV
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:12 pm

Opus99 wrote:
VV wrote:
If i am not mistaken Boeing will use 4 aircraft for the flight tests.

It is very likely the 3rd flight test article is now almost completed.
Or perhaps they are still installing flight test instruments?

Does anyone know something that can be shared here? Thank you.

As at two weeks ago it didn’t have engines, so if anything it would only just be getting it’s engines installed

I don’t think Boeing wants to rush with the remaining test aircrafts till WH001 completes initial airworthiness testing (soon...first stall tests are tomorrow I believe) and then they can introduce the other test aircrafts etc



I think they did some preliminary stall tests already. It was even obvious on the altitude data during the first flight.
 
Spetsnaz55
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:09 pm

3rd flight test does have engines on. It's almost ready
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:17 pm

Spetsnaz55 wrote:
3rd flight test does have engines on. It's almost ready

Oh nice! Any update on second first flight?
 
VV
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:01 pm

Spetsnaz55 wrote:
3rd flight test does have engines on. It's almost ready


It is possible all four flight test articles will be flying by the end of April.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:39 am

ANA first 777-9 has rolled out of final assembly

Image

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/12 ... 57600?s=21
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