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VCVSpotter
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:09 pm

777-9 N779XX filed BFI-BFI 11AM - 2:59PM as BOE2.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE2
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:53 pm

777-9 N779XW filed BFI-MWH 10:45AM - 11:18AM as BOE1.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:54 pm

777-9 N779XW filed MWH-BFI 3PM - 9:13PM as BOE1 (unlikely to be the actual times).

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

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TropicalSky
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:56 pm

6hrs would be the longest flight so far

VCVSpotter wrote:
777-9 N779XW filed MWH-BFI 3PM - 9:13PM as BOE1 (unlikely to be the actual times).

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1
 
TropicalSky
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:52 pm

STC of Emirates not convinced on Boeing out of woods on meeting certification and delivery of B779
https://www.flightglobal.com/programmes ... 34.article
 
EK7777
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:48 pm

TropicalSky wrote:
6hrs would be the longest flight so far

VCVSpotter wrote:
777-9 N779XW filed MWH-BFI 3PM - 9:13PM as BOE1 (unlikely to be the actual times).

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1
N779XW has already performed multiple 6 hr long flights in the past.
 
TropicalSky
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:39 pm

sorry i didn't realize

EK7777 wrote:
TropicalSky wrote:
6hrs would be the longest flight so far

VCVSpotter wrote:
777-9 N779XW filed MWH-BFI 3PM - 9:13PM as BOE1 (unlikely to be the actual times).

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1
N779XW has already performed multiple 6 hr long flights in the past.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:57 pm

777-9 N779XX filed BFI-BFI 10:30AM - 12:37PM as BOE2.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE2
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:55 pm

777-9 N779XW filed BFI-BFI 12PM - 2:33PM as BOE1.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:16 pm

777-9 N779XY filed BFI-BFI 2:45PM - 1:06AM as BOE3 (times are likely not accurate). This is N779XY's 2nd flight.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE3
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling college and airplanes • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
TropicalSky
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:52 pm

All 3 test frames gonna be airborne at once .... that's sweet
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:02 pm

A nice video compilation of 779 departures out of BFI, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfCPeg08I_4
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:23 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
A nice video compilation of 779 departures out of BFI, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfCPeg08I_4

Lovely video and great quality too! Thanks for sharing!
 
TropicalSky
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:33 pm

This plane is so quiet for the size of those engines

ikolkyo wrote:
A nice video compilation of 779 departures out of BFI, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfCPeg08I_4
 
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VCVSpotter
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:51 pm

VCVSpotter wrote:
777-9 N779XY filed BFI-BFI 2:45PM - 1:06AM as BOE3 (times are likely not accurate). This is N779XY's 2nd flight.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE3


According to the first link, N779XY's flight has been cancelled and has been rescheduled for tomorrow. It seems that they are getting this info from FR24 as the 2nd link does indicate a cancellation, while FlightAware (3rd) hasn't picked it up yet.

https://www.instagram.com/stories/b777x ... 984118490/
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/boe3
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE3
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:02 am

TropicalSky wrote:
STC of Emirates not convinced on Boeing out of woods on meeting certification and delivery of B779
https://www.flightglobal.com/programmes ... 34.article


Obviously they are not out of the wood on 777X certification because they entered the wood only this year.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:33 pm

777-9 N779XY filed BFI-BFI 9AM - 7:21PM as BOE3 (times are likely not accurate). This is N779XY's 2nd flight.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE3
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling college and airplanes • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:37 pm

777-9 N779XW filed BFI-BFI 9:15AM - 2:45PM as BOE1.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling college and airplanes • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
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RobK
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:43 pm

RobK wrote:
Spetsnaz55 wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:

Does anybody know the line number for A6-EZQ?


1642 if I'm not mistaken


Has there been a reallocation then as my parchment shows a different reg for that ln?


Jumping back to this. The frame pictured is indeed believed to be 1642 based on its roll out date, however all systems still show the reg as A6-EZE so it's either a paint error or the systems haven't been updated yet. I shall stick with A6-EZE for now but ymmv.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:26 pm

what is BOE003/N779XY testing today? notice they've been at a constant speed of 170 without indications of stalls
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:37 pm

TropicalSky wrote:
what is BOE003/N779XY testing today? notice they've been at a constant speed of 170 without indications of stalls

Would this be part of propulsion performance testing?
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:16 pm

Opus99 wrote:
TropicalSky wrote:
what is BOE003/N779XY testing today? notice they've been at a constant speed of 170 without indications of stalls

Would this be part of propulsion performance testing?

It’s gone above 30,000 now
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:04 pm

777-9 N779XX filed BFI-BFI 12:30PM - 1:30PM as BOE2.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE2
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling college and airplanes • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:38 pm

Opus99 wrote:
TropicalSky wrote:
what is BOE003/N779XY testing today? notice they've been at a constant speed of 170 without indications of stalls

Would this be part of propulsion performance testing?


The flight path suggests you are right.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:07 pm

777-9 N779XW filed MWH-BFI 1:30PM - 2:53PM as BOE1.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling college and airplanes • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
Spetsnaz55
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:40 pm

All 3 are in the air
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:18 pm

Wow and then they were 3 just hope sales will keep this beauty flying for long

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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:41 pm

Spetsnaz55 wrote:
All 3 are in the air

That is great news. It implies the fleet will start acquiring about 70 hours, but not immediately. It takes a few weeks to induct an aircraft into the flight test program and ensure the team is up to speed.

A fourth aircraft will join the 777x test fleet soon:
https://simpleflying.com/boeing-4th-777x-demonstrator/

After that aircraft has been flying for about 2 weeks, we'll start seeing faster progress toward certification. The flights that interest me the most, the long haul efficiency proving flights with barrels and barrels of water to simulate payload, are at least 4 months away (probably more).

Normally by now, I hear rumors of the 777x and/or GE9x fuel burn. I think people are a bit afraid of their jobs now and aren't letting information slip. This means the fuel burn isn't horrid (if it were really bad, we would hear).

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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:53 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Spetsnaz55 wrote:
All 3 are in the air

That is great news. It implies the fleet will start acquiring about 70 hours, but not immediately. It takes a few weeks to induct an aircraft into the flight test program and ensure the team is up to speed.

A fourth aircraft will join the 777x test fleet soon:
https://simpleflying.com/boeing-4th-777x-demonstrator/

After that aircraft has been flying for about 2 weeks, we'll start seeing faster progress toward certification. The flights that interest me the most, the long haul efficiency proving flights with barrels and barrels of water to simulate payload, are at least 4 months away (probably more).

Normally by now, I hear rumors of the 777x and/or GE9x fuel burn. I think people are a bit afraid of their jobs now and aren't letting information slip. This means the fuel burn isn't horrid (if it were really bad, we would hear).

Lightsaber


That 4th plane is at minimum a month away from first flight. It just came out of final assembly for the 2nd time a few days ago. Im hoping for Boeing to do hot weather testing this month or next in Dubai but I think that will be next year now :(
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:45 pm

Spetsnaz55 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Spetsnaz55 wrote:
All 3 are in the air

That is great news. It implies the fleet will start acquiring about 70 hours, but not immediately. It takes a few weeks to induct an aircraft into the flight test program and ensure the team is up to speed.

A fourth aircraft will join the 777x test fleet soon:
https://simpleflying.com/boeing-4th-777x-demonstrator/

After that aircraft has been flying for about 2 weeks, we'll start seeing faster progress toward certification. The flights that interest me the most, the long haul efficiency proving flights with barrels and barrels of water to simulate payload, are at least 4 months away (probably more).

Normally by now, I hear rumors of the 777x and/or GE9x fuel burn. I think people are a bit afraid of their jobs now and aren't letting information slip. This means the fuel burn isn't horrid (if it were really bad, we would hear).

Lightsaber


That 4th plane is at minimum a month away from first flight. It just came out of final assembly for the 2nd time a few days ago. Im hoping for Boeing to do hot weather testing this month or next in Dubai but I think that will be next year now :(

They could do it in Seattle this weekend! Supposed to be near 100F on Sunday :) :hot:
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:29 pm

This is a good day....every frame will accumulate no less than 4hrs flight time
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:17 am

lightsaber wrote:
.

A fourth aircraft will join the 777x test fleet soon:
https://simpleflying.com/boeing-4th-777x-demonstrator/

After that aircraft has been flying for about 2 weeks, we'll start seeing faster progress toward certification.

Lightsaber


Not really. Service entry is Q1 in '22.

There will be no rush on the Boeing side. Also, FAA will want to ensure no Max-type hidden features like Mcas or anything else. Higher scrutiny and multiple repeat tests of things.

Certification will be the steadying pace, not fast.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:26 am

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
.

A fourth aircraft will join the 777x test fleet soon:
https://simpleflying.com/boeing-4th-777x-demonstrator/

After that aircraft has been flying for about 2 weeks, we'll start seeing faster progress toward certification.

Lightsaber


Not really. Service entry is Q1 in '22.

There will be no rush on the Boeing side. Also, FAA will want to ensure no Max-type hidden features like Mcas or anything else. Higher scrutiny and multiple repeat tests of things.

Certification will be the steadying pace, not fast.


Well, I've heard both view points on this forum. There have been several posters who say that Boeing will want to retire risk early, while there are others who say that certification won't be rushed. I do think that they will have the jet certified a decent amount of time before Q1 '22, but that's just a guess. At this point I don't think anybody really knows, they could likely do an approach 'in-between.' So try to retire risk early, but by no means will it be a rushed certification program: I think upthread someone mentioned that it was already way behind the A350 program in terms of flight hours.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

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Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:21 am

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
.

A fourth aircraft will join the 777x test fleet soon:
https://simpleflying.com/boeing-4th-777x-demonstrator/

After that aircraft has been flying for about 2 weeks, we'll start seeing faster progress toward certification.

Lightsaber


Not really. Service entry is Q1 in '22.

There will be no rush on the Boeing side. Also, FAA will want to ensure no Max-type hidden features like Mcas or anything else. Higher scrutiny and multiple repeat tests of things.

Certification will be the steadying pace, not fast.

To be fair, there has been a significant ramp up in pace on certification flights. It's about retiring risk early. My theory is that maybe Boeing now has a better understanding with the FAA on how the direction they want to take the certification process of the 777x following the fact that the MAX is coming to a conclusion on the FAA side at least. Now I also think that they may have moved hands from the MAX to the 777x Program seeing as they have come to the tail end of that on a certification point of view. Moving it to 2022 is a combination of things, demand and certification. more certification than demand. as someone upthread said if there was no coronavirus, the certification changes would still be there, which would have meant 2022 either way or back end of 21. Noticed just before the coronavirus hit they changed their tone from early 2021 to 2021 so even December 31st 2021 would've been correct
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:37 pm

keesje wrote:
FlightGlobal is brave enough (kudos) to put on the table what most of the industry/ their advertisers don't want to hear or know. The FAA changed product rule miss-use on 777x, in parallel to the 737MAX.

https://www.flightglobal.com/programmes ... 74.article

Easy to sideline if we ignore the major contributor is a 40 year industry dinosaur, Boeing customer and also by far biggest 777/777x customer.

Then they should recertify every grandfathered aircraft if that be the case. They should recertify it from scratch like a brand new aircraft. I don’t see how that changes where the EIS is targeted for. Like I’ve said even if it takes 18 months from now that’s still 2022. Even if it takes 2 years. The coronavirus bought the aircraft time. What I don’t know is. How it changes the now expected EIS. Unless you’re trying to say the aircraft is not safe or?
 
StTim
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:57 pm

Opus99 wrote:
keesje wrote:
FlightGlobal is brave enough (kudos) to put on the table what most of the industry/ their advertisers don't want to hear or know. The FAA changed product rule miss-use on 777x, in parallel to the 737MAX.

https://www.flightglobal.com/programmes ... 74.article

Easy to sideline if we ignore the major contributor is a 40 year industry dinosaur, Boeing customer and also by far biggest 777/777x customer.

Then they should recertify every grandfathered aircraft if that be the case. They should recertify it from scratch like a brand new aircraft. I don’t see how that changes where the EIS is targeted for. Like I’ve said even if it takes 18 months from now that’s still 2022. Even if it takes 2 years. The coronavirus bought the aircraft time. What I don’t know is. How it changes the now expected EIS. Unless you’re trying to say the aircraft is not safe or?


The question is - are other framers also successfully applying similar pressure to their lead regulator, and not hiding important changes from them.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:53 pm

Opus99 wrote:
Then they should recertify every grandfathered aircraft if that be the case. They should recertify it from scratch like a brand new aircraft. I don’t see how that changes where the EIS is targeted for. Like I’ve said even if it takes 18 months from now that’s still 2022. Even if it takes 2 years. The coronavirus bought the aircraft time. What I don’t know is. How it changes the now expected EIS. Unless you’re trying to say the aircraft is not safe or?

Maybe now we have a better idea why it's taking Airbus four years to move some bulkheads and add some strengthening to the A321.
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Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:14 pm

StTim wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
keesje wrote:
FlightGlobal is brave enough (kudos) to put on the table what most of the industry/ their advertisers don't want to hear or know. The FAA changed product rule miss-use on 777x, in parallel to the 737MAX.

https://www.flightglobal.com/programmes ... 74.article

Easy to sideline if we ignore the major contributor is a 40 year industry dinosaur, Boeing customer and also by far biggest 777/777x customer.

Then they should recertify every grandfathered aircraft if that be the case. They should recertify it from scratch like a brand new aircraft. I don’t see how that changes where the EIS is targeted for. Like I’ve said even if it takes 18 months from now that’s still 2022. Even if it takes 2 years. The coronavirus bought the aircraft time. What I don’t know is. How it changes the now expected EIS. Unless you’re trying to say the aircraft is not safe or?


The question is - are other framers also successfully applying similar pressure to their lead regulator, and not hiding important changes from them.

And a very reasonable question at that
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:15 pm

Revelation wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Then they should recertify every grandfathered aircraft if that be the case. They should recertify it from scratch like a brand new aircraft. I don’t see how that changes where the EIS is targeted for. Like I’ve said even if it takes 18 months from now that’s still 2022. Even if it takes 2 years. The coronavirus bought the aircraft time. What I don’t know is. How it changes the now expected EIS. Unless you’re trying to say the aircraft is not safe or?

Maybe now we have a better idea why it's taking Airbus four years to move some bulkheads and add some strengthening to the A321.

That’s a strong possibility. The max changed the game for everybody
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:16 pm

The MAX was a fly-by-cable plane now with a little fly- by-wire and a lot of a kludge to make it act like a fly by wire. The 777, far newer than the 320 or the 330 was and is fly by wire from the beginning. It does not have the underlying problems of the MAX. Posters asserting there is an equivalence are simply showing unacceptable bias.
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:32 pm

All future certification trajects will be looked at with a must greater scrunity.
It doesn't matter if it's a new aircraft, an amended type certificate or a supplemental type certificate.
The authorities don't believe the OEM's and Modification Centers of this world on their blue (or brown) eyes anymore.
Trust has to be earned again, but that will take a long time.
So 777X certification will be looked at with special interest by the FAA, EASA and all other certifying authorities.
The 737MAX case is an example were the OEM tried to compensate the aerodynamical differences between the NG and the MAX the cheap way with some relative simple digital tweaks.
Not only legacy designs are effected, also all digital aircraft could hide a few nasty surprises, because it's nearly impossible to check every line of software and predict and test all posible situations during certification (type, amended or supplemental)
For the same reason(s) I expect a very prolonged supplemental certification traject for the 777-300ERSF, especially without the support of the OEM.
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PW100
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:59 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
The MAX was a fly-by-cable plane now with a little fly- by-wire and a lot of a kludge to make it act like a fly by wire. The 777, far newer than the 320 or the 330 was and is fly by wire from the beginning. It does not have the underlying problems of the MAX. Posters asserting there is an equivalence are simply showing unacceptable bias.


So this 40 year industry veteran STC seems to show an "unacceptable bias" then . . . . :

FlightGlobal wrote:
Clark is a weary veteran of many new airliner programmes – be they cleansheet or derivative designs. He was at Gulf Air when the Lockheed TriStar was being introduced in the mid-1970s and has been part of the creative knowhow that helped produce many of today’s widebody icons such as the Airbus A350 and A380, and the 777-300ER. But even with all his battle-hardened experience on the frontline of airliner development, Clark was clearly spooked by what he saw coming out of the Max investigation.

While stressing that he has no reason to believe there is anything untoward with 777X systems or design, Clark is concerned that – in light of the Max findings – there could be embedded software “that we do not know about, or is dissimilar to what is already on the 777-300ER”. He therefore demands “a full and transparent explanation” once the aircraft is ready to be presented for certification.



Mind you, it is my understanding that Boeing is having hard times with the 777X certification process as the initially agreed upon certification plan is becoming more like a moving target, changing requirements almost on a monthly basis now . . .
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PW100
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:06 pm

StTim wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Then they should recertify every grandfathered aircraft if that be the case. They should recertify it from scratch like a brand new aircraft. I don’t see how that changes where the EIS is targeted for. Like I’ve said even if it takes 18 months from now that’s still 2022. Even if it takes 2 years. The coronavirus bought the aircraft time. What I don’t know is. How it changes the now expected EIS. Unless you’re trying to say the aircraft is not safe or?

The question is - are other framers also successfully applying similar pressure to their lead regulator, and not hiding important changes from them.


Good question. And most certainly, fall out will reach Airbus one way or the other.

However, I'd expect this issue to be less on the European side for two reasons:
1) the multinational nature of EASA (in fact, it sort of functions as an JATR for years already)
2) Rule making (EASA) and compliance verification (national Aviation Authorities) are more separated functions/responsibilities compared to FAA.
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VCVSpotter
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:35 pm

777-9 N779XW filed BFI-BFI 10:05PM - 2:05PM as BOE1.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling college and airplanes • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:35 pm

777-9 N779XX filed BFI-BFI 10:30AM - 1:29 as BOE2.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE2
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling college and airplanes • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:38 pm

PW100 wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
The MAX was a fly-by-cable plane now with a little fly- by-wire and a lot of a kludge to make it act like a fly by wire. The 777, far newer than the 320 or the 330 was and is fly by wire from the beginning. It does not have the underlying problems of the MAX. Posters asserting there is an equivalence are simply showing unacceptable bias.


So this 40 year industry veteran STC seems to show an "unacceptable bias" then . . . . :

FlightGlobal wrote:
Clark is a weary veteran of many new airliner programmes – be they cleansheet or derivative designs. He was at Gulf Air when the Lockheed TriStar was being introduced in the mid-1970s and has been part of the creative knowhow that helped produce many of today’s widebody icons such as the Airbus A350 and A380, and the 777-300ER. But even with all his battle-hardened experience on the frontline of airliner development, Clark was clearly spooked by what he saw coming out of the Max investigation.

While stressing that he has no reason to believe there is anything untoward with 777X systems or design, Clark is concerned that – in light of the Max findings – there could be embedded software “that we do not know about, or is dissimilar to what is already on the 777-300ER”. He therefore demands “a full and transparent explanation” once the aircraft is ready to be presented for certification.



Mind you, it is my understanding that Boeing is having hard times with the 777X certification process as the initially agreed upon certification plan is becoming more like a moving target, changing requirements almost on a monthly basis now . . .

Which is why I’ve said that’s probably why the process was slow at the start. The process now seems much faster now. So it’s obvious a new plan has been put in place. STC telling them to slow down may be a financial commitment matter as they’re negotiating delivery schedules
 
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Revelation
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:07 pm

The scope of the changes in 77X are similar to the scope of changes in 737NG so while they aren't typical I would say they are not unusual.

The amended type certificate procedure is a part of the FARs, I don't see the issue with Boeing using it.

I do see the issue with Boeing using Congress to pressure FAA management to delegate more stuff to it and using Jedi mind tricks to avoid expensive training requirements, but that could be a problem regardless of clean sheet vs amended type certificate.

787 should be a vivid example of how clean sheet procedures aren't necessarily a path to producing the safest aircraft.
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keesje
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:48 pm

Awesome looking aircraft, look at those huge engines! Can't wait to see it in Singapore colors!
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FriscoHeavy
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:27 pm

God, that is one beautiful airplane. I cannot wait to see it in operational service and will go out of my way to fly on one.

I find it very hard to believe that with 3 aircraft in testing and a 4th on the way, that it will take another year and a half to certify. Sounds beyond silly, even if taking things slowly and conservatively.
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JohanTally
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:44 pm

Revelation wrote:
The scope of the changes in 77X are similar to the scope of changes in 737NG so while they aren't typical I would say they are not unusual.

The amended type certificate procedure is a part of the FARs, I don't see the issue with Boeing using it.

I do see the issue with Boeing using Congress to pressure FAA management to delegate more stuff to it and using Jedi mind tricks to avoid expensive training requirements, but that could be a problem regardless of clean sheet vs amended type certificate.

787 should be a vivid example of how clean sheet procedures aren't necessarily a path to producing the safest aircraft.


Last I checked the 787 is one of the safer aircrafts with nearly 1000 delivered and no hull loss incidents. It did have teething issues with batteries and engine reliability but it seems the redundancy implemented has worked. The Max broke the cardinal rule of aviation and put in a automated system with no safeguards for erroneous data.

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