Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Opus99
Posts: 2200
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:56 pm

mattcawby wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
There is a 777-9 that is supposed to take off from Everett today and land back at Everett under BOE280. I don’t know whether that is an error but I’m pretty sure there are only engineless 777-9s at Everett


That's probably Qantas 787-9 VH-ZNL, doesn't look like it will be flying today.

Thank you!!
 
Spetsnaz55
Posts: 275
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:38 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:45 pm

Wh001 is back on the ground at Paine for the first time since first flight on Jan 25th
 
Opus99
Posts: 2200
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:49 pm

Wh002 is going to VCV today @vcvspotter
 
TropicalSky
Posts: 566
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 1:37 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:57 pm

what is going on with WH003/N779XY....it hasn't flown in almost a month
 
Opus99
Posts: 2200
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:01 pm

TropicalSky wrote:
what is going on with WH003/N779XY....it hasn't flown in almost a month

I’ve noticed that in testing the third and fourth always fly significantly less than the second and particularly the first frame. I’m not sure why
 
User avatar
VCVSpotter
Posts: 1763
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:10 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:18 pm

Opus99 wrote:
Wh002 is going to VCV today @vcvspotter


Yeah, trying my best to go but idk if I’ll have a ride :cry2:

FlightAware links:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE ... /KBFI/KVCV
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE ... /KVCV/KBFI
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
wesk
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:36 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:34 pm

Spetsnaz55 wrote:
Wh001 is back on the ground at Paine for the first time since first flight on Jan 25th

WH001 has been on the ground at Paine Field about a month or two ago. :) this should be it's second time now.
 
Spetsnaz55
Posts: 275
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:38 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:00 pm

wesk wrote:
Spetsnaz55 wrote:
Wh001 is back on the ground at Paine for the first time since first flight on Jan 25th

WH001 has been on the ground at Paine Field about a month or two ago. :) this should be it's second time now.


I know it did a go around by Paine field and maybe even a touch and go but are you sure it had actually landed and taxied before?
 
wesk
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:36 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:23 pm

Spetsnaz55 wrote:
wesk wrote:
Spetsnaz55 wrote:
Wh001 is back on the ground at Paine for the first time since first flight on Jan 25th

WH001 has been on the ground at Paine Field about a month or two ago. :) this should be it's second time now.


I know it did a go around by Paine field and maybe even a touch and go but are you sure it had actually landed and taxied before?


Here is the link to the video of it in August at Paine Field, it was a full stop landing and taxi as it was today. https://youtu.be/M2BpR02Go4A
 
Newark727
Posts: 2357
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:05 am

Opus99 wrote:
Wh002 is going to VCV today @vcvspotter


Missed it by 5 minutes or less! This the first 777-9 visit to California?
 
User avatar
VCVSpotter
Posts: 1763
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:10 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:10 am

Newark727 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Wh002 is going to VCV today @vcvspotter


Missed it by 5 minutes or less! This the first 777-9 visit to California?


Damn! Thought I missed it, but she came back and did some pattern work at VCV before landing with a full stop (see my pic below). Took off about 30 minutes to an hour later. Definitely one of the most beautiful aircraft out there.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CGRALw_htj9/?hl=en
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE2
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
User avatar
747classic
Posts: 3796
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:13 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:27 am

Qatar 777-9, A7-BKA at the Everett flight line, October 19th 2020.

See Matt Cawby's Paine Field blog of Oct 19th : http://www.paineairport.com/kpae18727e.htm

Aircraft data : L/N 1656, B-777-9, A7-BKA, QATAR AIRWAYS
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
User avatar
77west
Posts: 1008
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:52 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:16 pm

Is Emirates getting both the 5-door version and the 4-door version? It appears the frame in this picture https://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitle ... /6197973/L

Seems to be the 4-door where some of the earlier frames for them are 5-door.
77West - AW109S - BE90 - JS31 - B1900 - Q300 - ATR72 - DC9-30 - MD80 - B733 - A320 - B738 - A300-B4 - B773 - B77W
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27548
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:27 pm

77west wrote:
Is Emirates getting both the 5-door version and the 4-door version?


The only public statement I have heard was that the two-class model was expected to seat 440, which would only need four pairs of Type A doors.

The earlier frames with the Type C door pair might be plugged prior to delivery.
 
User avatar
77west
Posts: 1008
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:52 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:04 am

Stitch wrote:
77west wrote:
Is Emirates getting both the 5-door version and the 4-door version?


The only public statement I have heard was that the two-class model was expected to seat 440, which would only need four pairs of Type A doors.

The earlier frames with the Type C door pair might be plugged prior to delivery.


Makes sense, thanks

Would suck to book a window seat and end up next to the plugged door, assuming the plug does not have a window.
77West - AW109S - BE90 - JS31 - B1900 - Q300 - ATR72 - DC9-30 - MD80 - B733 - A320 - B738 - A300-B4 - B773 - B77W
 
Opus99
Posts: 2200
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:01 am

We are just getting up to 700hrs. With 311 flights! Nice progress but still a long way to go!
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 22071
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:06 pm

Opus99 wrote:
We are just getting up to 700hrs. With 311 flights! Nice progress but still a long way to go!

Thank you. Where did you find the flight hours?

How many flight test hours is the 777x scheduled for? I couldn't find the link.

LIghtsaber
6 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
Opus99
Posts: 2200
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:26 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
We are just getting up to 700hrs. With 311 flights! Nice progress but still a long way to go!

Thank you. Where did you find the flight hours?

How many flight test hours is the 777x scheduled for? I couldn't find the link.

LIghtsaber

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... QnDhA/edit

I don’t know what flight hours they are planning. But I’m guessing about 1500 to 2000 roughly
 
User avatar
PepeTheFrog
Posts: 406
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:38 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:04 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
We are just getting up to 700hrs. With 311 flights! Nice progress but still a long way to go!

Thank you. Where did you find the flight hours?

How many flight test hours is the 777x scheduled for? I couldn't find the link.

LIghtsaber


Some 2,000 hours would be normal for a program like the 777X.

Still a lot of work to be done.
Good moaning!
 
Spetsnaz55
Posts: 275
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:38 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:26 am

If they really wanted to get those numbers up, they would fly all 4 planes every day instead of one or 2 a day
 
iamlucky13
Posts: 1415
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:35 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:23 am

Spetsnaz55 wrote:
If they really wanted to get those numbers up, they would fly all 4 planes every day instead of one or 2 a day


As far as I know, the goal really is not hours, it is specific test plans completed.

Watching previous programs like the 787, CSeries, and A350, it seems they typically have an initial estimate of how many flight hours that will take, and it usually involves more.
 
StTim
Posts: 3809
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:39 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:18 am

iamlucky13 wrote:
Spetsnaz55 wrote:
If they really wanted to get those numbers up, they would fly all 4 planes every day instead of one or 2 a day


As far as I know, the goal really is not hours, it is specific test plans completed.

Watching previous programs like the 787, CSeries, and A350, it seems they typically have an initial estimate of how many flight hours that will take, and it usually involves more.

I agree it isn’t just a matter of racking up hours - it is completing specific tests.

Also there will be ground tests and equipment changes to support the next tests.

There will also be fixes (soft and hardware) that need to be created, installed and the test flights reflows.
 
wesk
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:36 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:59 am

PepeTheFrog wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
We are just getting up to 700hrs. With 311 flights! Nice progress but still a long way to go!

Thank you. Where did you find the flight hours?

How many flight test hours is the 777x scheduled for? I couldn't find the link.

LIghtsaber


Some 2,000 hours would be normal for a program like the 777X.

Still a lot of work to be done.


Around 2000 hours of testing makes sense. At the current rate it should in reality meet the 2022 delivery date
 
Opus99
Posts: 2200
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:32 pm

Quick question from me. Apologies if it has already been answered. The 5 door option is it dependent on what the carrier wants or does it have to do with the number of seats on board?
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27548
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:49 pm

Opus99 wrote:
Quick question from me. Apologies if it has already been answered. The 5 door option is it dependent on what the carrier wants or does it have to do with the number of seats on board?


Doors impact Exit Limits. The following configurations appear to be available:

A-A-A-A (440 pax)
C-A-A-A (385 pax)
C-A-A-C-A (440 pax)
A-A-A-C-A (495 pax)
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 14291
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:20 am

It seems the full impact of the 777x certification choices made and approved by FAA in the past, are becoming visible. Apart from Covid-19 and delayed engines, it may be behind most of the delay. Specially because it all started way before Covid-19 came into play. Now it is 2022, but most these outlooks prove optimistic rather than realistic.

Throughout the 737 MAX investigations and recertification process, former Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg said there would be no delay on 777X certification. On Boeing’s earnings call last week, Muilenburg’s successor, David Calhoun, said there could be. “On the 777X, we continue to work with the regulators on certification work scope, including reflecting the learnings from the 737 cert process,” Calhoun said. “As with any development program, there are inherent risks that can affect schedule. And while we continue to drive toward entry into service in 2022, this timing will ultimately be influenced by certification requirements defined by the regulators.” Boeing is certifying the 777X under the Changed Product Rule, the same process used for the MAX. Certification is being pursued as a derivative of the 777, a point of scrutiny on the MAX.


https://leehamnews.com/2020/11/02/pontifications-certification-timing-may-push-eis-for-777x/
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Opus99
Posts: 2200
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:55 am

If I’m honest. It might not be bad fir the jet
 
Noshow
Posts: 2411
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:20 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:44 pm

Would the 777X delay mean that Boeing now has more money available to bring forward future narrow body successors to the 737? Which would be some smart move IMHO.
 
StTim
Posts: 3809
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:39 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:57 pm

Noshow wrote:
Would the 777X delay mean that Boeing now has more money available to bring forward future narrow body successors to the 737? Which would be some smart move IMHO.


Hardly as they are still producing the 777X at a low rate and consuming cash test flying it - but the time when serious cash will be returned to Boeing is being put back so it is a net negative on cash flow.
 
majano
Posts: 306
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:45 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:04 pm

VCVSpotter wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Wh002 is going to VCV today @vcvspotter


Missed it by 5 minutes or less! This the first 777-9 visit to California?


Damn! Thought I missed it, but she came back and did some pattern work at VCV before landing with a full stop (see my pic below). Took off about 30 minutes to an hour later. Definitely one of the most beautiful aircraft out there.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CGRALw_htj9/?hl=en
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE2

Great picture! Thanks for sharing.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27548
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:30 pm

No airline is in a real position to take a 777X no matter how quickly it was certified, so if the certification process takes longer because the stakeholders (all or some) want more done, it's not really a bad thing at this point.
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 10726
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:38 am

Stitch wrote:
No airline is in a real position to take a 777X no matter how quickly it was certified, so if the certification process takes longer because the stakeholders (all or some) want more done, it's not really a bad thing at this point.

Except if they delay the certification until things start to recover. In which case, when someone wants to jump on an opportunity the a/c will not be available. My hope is that they just continue to go through the process with no voluntary delay. Test flights started in 2020, but they expect EIS in 2022 and so far no official word on the repair for the fuselage failure, will that be another delay to 2023?
 
User avatar
enzo011
Posts: 1960
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:12 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:48 pm

Stitch wrote:
No airline is in a real position to take a 777X no matter how quickly it was certified, so if the certification process takes longer because the stakeholders (all or some) want more done, it's not really a bad thing at this point.


A tiny silver lining in a massive cloud, but yeah it is good for everyone that it is delayed at the moment if you overlook the financial impact this will have for Boeing.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 26105
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:24 pm

enzo011 wrote:
Stitch wrote:
No airline is in a real position to take a 777X no matter how quickly it was certified, so if the certification process takes longer because the stakeholders (all or some) want more done, it's not really a bad thing at this point.

A tiny silver lining in a massive cloud, but yeah it is good for everyone that it is delayed at the moment if you overlook the financial impact this will have for Boeing.

Yes, overlooking the financial issues the industry is now facing is what people are doing, thanks for giving us the clue to look into it....
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27548
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:05 pm

par13del wrote:
Except if they delay the certification until things start to recover. In which case, when someone wants to jump on an opportunity the a/c will not be available. My hope is that they just continue to go through the process with no voluntary delay. Test flights started in 2020, but they expect EIS in 2022 and so far no official word on the repair for the fuselage failure, will that be another delay to 2023?


Right now things are looking like they will not recover until the backside of the decade and it seems unlikely certification will take that long.


enzo011 wrote:
A tiny silver lining in a massive cloud, but yeah it is good for everyone that it is delayed at the moment if you overlook the financial impact this will have for Boeing.


If the 777X was fully certified and ready for delivery today, who would take it? ANA has already asked for a deferral. Emirates is using the excuse of wanting more testing to cover their desire for a deferral. Singapore and Cathay are both deferring A350s, so why would they take 777Xs? And Lufthansa has been talking deferments, as well. So who is left, exactly? Qatar? They just took delivery of some A350s after deferring them for awhile, so maybe they could take a few, I guess. Is Etihad still operating? Maybe they can find some money in the lounge couch cushions.
 
User avatar
enzo011
Posts: 1960
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:12 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:54 pm

Stitch wrote:
If the 777X was fully certified and ready for delivery today, who would take it? ANA has already asked for a deferral. Emirates is using the excuse of wanting more testing to cover their desire for a deferral. Singapore and Cathay are both deferring A350s, so why would they take 777Xs? And Lufthansa has been talking deferments, as well. So who is left, exactly? Qatar? They just took delivery of some A350s after deferring them for awhile, so maybe they could take a few, I guess. Is Etihad still operating? Maybe they can find some money in the lounge couch cushions.



Sure, the delay at this stage is good for those airlines looking to operate the 777X. Boeing should be commended for being so accommodating to their customers that they aren't forcing them to take delivery of the aircraft at this stage.
 
Noshow
Posts: 2411
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:20 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:58 pm

Force them? Burning bridges with top customers? This is not the way it works. Are you aware how hard manufacturers work to sell their aircraft to airlines like these?
 
hbjnd
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:24 am

777X Weight

Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:37 am

Hello all,
I was wondering what will the OEW of the 777-9 will be. I’ve seen a lot of claims here that it will be much heavier than the 77w but I just find it hard to believe. Yes, the engines are heavier. But I saw somewhere here that the wing kept the same weight. Also, I’d imagine that the new tail would weigh less than the old one and that the thinner sidewalls would save some weight. Lastly, could we see an eventual mtow bump?
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 2489
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: 777X Weight

Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:00 am

hbjnd wrote:
Hello all,
I was wondering what will the OEW of the 777-9 will be. I’ve seen a lot of claims here that it will be much heavier than the 77w but I just find it hard to believe. Yes, the engines are heavier. But I saw somewhere here that the wing kept the same weight. Also, I’d imagine that the new tail would weigh less than the old one and that the thinner sidewalls would save some weight. Lastly, could we see an eventual mtow bump?


Thinning up the ribs adds weight quite quickly. The moment of Inertia, I is a 4th power function of the depth. Thinning something from 4" to 3" means I went from 4^4 to 3^4 is 256 to 81, so I new is only 31% of old. So either much stronger material or triple the area & weight.
 
User avatar
747classic
Posts: 3796
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:13 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:42 am

The next 777-9 for Qatar Airways at the flight line.

A7-BKB, KPAE, Nov 11th 2020 (L/N 1659 ?)
Image

Original uploaded by Matt Cawby at twitter, see : https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/13 ... 8383880193
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
airsmiles
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:14 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:11 am

Stitch wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Quick question from me. Apologies if it has already been answered. The 5 door option is it dependent on what the carrier wants or does it have to do with the number of seats on board?


Doors impact Exit Limits. The following configurations appear to be available:

A-A-A-A (440 pax)
C-A-A-A (385 pax)
C-A-A-C-A (440 pax)
A-A-A-C-A (495 pax)



Could you tell me what the difference is between the A and C door types? Thanks.
 
Opus99
Posts: 2200
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:55 am

747classic wrote:
The next 777-9 for Qatar Airways at the flight line.

A7-BKB, KPAE, Nov 11th 2020 (L/N 1659 ?)
Image

Original uploaded by Matt Cawby at twitter, see : https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/13 ... 8383880193

Beautiful aircraft! The wingtips are really nice in QR's Colours. QR's frames seem to coming out quick.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 22071
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: 777X Weight

Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:53 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
hbjnd wrote:
Hello all,
I was wondering what will the OEW of the 777-9 will be. I’ve seen a lot of claims here that it will be much heavier than the 77w but I just find it hard to believe. Yes, the engines are heavier. But I saw somewhere here that the wing kept the same weight. Also, I’d imagine that the new tail would weigh less than the old one and that the thinner sidewalls would save some weight. Lastly, could we see an eventual mtow bump?


Thinning up the ribs adds weight quite quickly. The moment of Inertia, I is a 4th power function of the depth. Thinning something from 4" to 3" means I went from 4^4 to 3^4 is 256 to 81, so I new is only 31% of old. So either much stronger material or triple the area & weight.

While your math us correct, a structural engineering friend who worked on the original 777 noted the ribs were overstrength for 60,000 cycles. One would expect a high lithium aluminum to be used with substantial flanges fir the I or C section to maximize moment of inertia for the weight.

So some weight increase, naturally (nothing is free). That saud, I heard there was significant management reserve in the weight Truth or rumor? I cannot confirm.

I'm shocked the wing isn't lighter despite the increased span and folding wingtips. A CFRP wing into a CFRP wingbox saves an incredible amount of weight.

Lightsaber
6 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
Special
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 5:30 pm

Re: 777X Weight

Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:07 pm

lightsaber wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
hbjnd wrote:
Hello all,
I was wondering what will the OEW of the 777-9 will be. I’ve seen a lot of claims here that it will be much heavier than the 77w but I just find it hard to believe. Yes, the engines are heavier. But I saw somewhere here that the wing kept the same weight. Also, I’d imagine that the new tail would weigh less than the old one and that the thinner sidewalls would save some weight. Lastly, could we see an eventual mtow bump?


Thinning up the ribs adds weight quite quickly. The moment of Inertia, I is a 4th power function of the depth. Thinning something from 4" to 3" means I went from 4^4 to 3^4 is 256 to 81, so I new is only 31% of old. So either much stronger material or triple the area & weight.

While your math us correct, a structural engineering friend who worked on the original 777 noted the ribs were overstrength for 60,000 cycles. One would expect a high lithium aluminum to be used with substantial flanges fir the I or C section to maximize moment of inertia for the weight.

So some weight increase, naturally (nothing is free). That saud, I heard there was significant management reserve in the weight Truth or rumor? I cannot confirm.

I'm shocked the wing isn't lighter despite the increased span and folding wingtips. A CFRP wing into a CFRP wingbox saves an incredible amount of weight.

Lightsaber


Speculating, but it could be the additional weight of the folding mechanism and the reinforced centre wingbox in addition to the larger size of the wing itself that may have brought the weight up to that of the 77W's
 
User avatar
VCVSpotter
Posts: 1763
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:10 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:17 pm

As others have mentioned a few pages back, my test program tracker (where I list all of the flights, it can be found at the link in my signature) would likely be one of the only indicators of testing pace progress. It's been exactly 1 week since the last 777-9 flight (MWH-BFI by N779XX), and nearly one whole month since any of the others have flown (October 15 YUM-BFI by N779XZ). Is there something amidst, or am I reading too much into it? I know that earlier in the program they were installing test equipment/COVID was in full swing up in Washington so it made sense that they wouldn't be flying for a month or so, but now with 4 operational aircraft in the test program, and only one of those flying 'regularly,' one has to wonder if something's up. The last time there was over a week between flights was July 16-26 (row 100-101 on my spreadsheet). Ever since then, it was go go go, so this abrupt stop in flights seems strange to say the least.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27548
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:37 pm

airsmiles wrote:
Could you tell me what the difference is between the A and C door types? Thanks.


From the FAA FARs:

Type A: This type is a floor-level exit with a rectangular opening of not less than 42 inches wide by 72 inches high, with corner radii not greater than seven inches.

Type C: This type is a floor-level exit with a rectangular opening of not less than 30 inches wide by 48 inches high, with corner radii not greater than 10 inches.

So Type A are the four pairs of larger doors and Type C are the pair of smaller doors between Doors 3 and 5.

Doors 1: forward fuselage
Doors 2: just forward of the wing
Doors 3: just aft of the wing
Doors 5: aft fuselage
 
User avatar
77west
Posts: 1008
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:52 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:08 pm

Stitch wrote:
airsmiles wrote:
Could you tell me what the difference is between the A and C door types? Thanks.


From the FAA FARs:

Type A: This type is a floor-level exit with a rectangular opening of not less than 42 inches wide by 72 inches high, with corner radii not greater than seven inches.

Type C: This type is a floor-level exit with a rectangular opening of not less than 30 inches wide by 48 inches high, with corner radii not greater than 10 inches.

So Type A are the four pairs of larger doors and Type C are the pair of smaller doors between Doors 3 and 5.

Doors 1: forward fuselage
Doors 2: just forward of the wing
Doors 3: just aft of the wing
Doors 5: aft fuselage


Is there not also something about the internal clearance / corridor, which in some configurations can downgrade a type A to type C even if it is physically a type A?
77West - AW109S - BE90 - JS31 - B1900 - Q300 - ATR72 - DC9-30 - MD80 - B733 - A320 - B738 - A300-B4 - B773 - B77W
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 2489
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: 777X Weight

Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:16 pm

lightsaber wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
hbjnd wrote:
Hello all,
I was wondering what will the OEW of the 777-9 will be. I’ve seen a lot of claims here that it will be much heavier than the 77w but I just find it hard to believe. Yes, the engines are heavier. But I saw somewhere here that the wing kept the same weight. Also, I’d imagine that the new tail would weigh less than the old one and that the thinner sidewalls would save some weight. Lastly, could we see an eventual mtow bump?


Thinning up the ribs adds weight quite quickly. The moment of Inertia, I is a 4th power function of the depth. Thinning something from 4" to 3" means I went from 4^4 to 3^4 is 256 to 81, so I new is only 31% of old. So either much stronger material or triple the area & weight.


While your math is correct, a structural engineering friend who worked on the original 777 noted the ribs were overstrength for 60,000 cycles. One would expect a high lithium aluminum to be used with substantial flanges fir the I or C section to maximize moment of inertia for the weight.

So some weight increase, naturally (nothing is free). That saud, I heard there was significant management reserve in the weight Truth or rumor? I cannot confirm.

I'm shocked the wing isn't lighter despite the increased span and folding wingtips. A CFRP wing into a CFRP wingbox saves an incredible amount of weight.

Lightsaber


The thinning really only needed to happen at the window belt, a transition from the floor to seat level, then about 5' of height before transitioning. You are correct that using up any reserve strength, going higher strength materials, selecting a rib with heavier flanges all can be done to offset the shallower rib depth. Also, it can be modeled with a 'hinge' at the window level, causing the rib moment to be zero at that point.

For hoop stress a hinge works great, for vertical bending the ribs have little load, but there are a lot of cases where there would be rib moments. Anyway it would have been a quite fun problem to work on, far better than being the engineer in charge of the aft port lavatory. How could someone even spend 5 years doing ongoing support for something like that.
 
airsmiles
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:14 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:37 pm

Stitch wrote:
airsmiles wrote:
Could you tell me what the difference is between the A and C door types? Thanks.


From the FAA FARs:

Type A: This type is a floor-level exit with a rectangular opening of not less than 42 inches wide by 72 inches high, with corner radii not greater than seven inches.

Type C: This type is a floor-level exit with a rectangular opening of not less than 30 inches wide by 48 inches high, with corner radii not greater than 10 inches.

So Type A are the four pairs of larger doors and Type C are the pair of smaller doors between Doors 3 and 5.

Doors 1: forward fuselage
Doors 2: just forward of the wing
Doors 3: just aft of the wing
Doors 5: aft fuselage


Thanks
Very helpful
 
b4thefall
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed May 04, 2016 7:12 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:12 am

Apologies if it's already been asked, but I don't have time to look through the entire thread.

Have any of the aircraft had a cabin fitted yet? Am really looking forward to seeing how the new cabin looks in reality rather than mock ups. Boeing have been extremely proactive over the years with new cabin design.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 737823wl, alggag, Baidu [Spider], bar1, Boten, capshandler, cityshuttle, Clearedfor28R, crytexx, DocGATTACA, eidvm, Google Adsense [Bot], ist2014, Nnaeto87, OAHU747, OOSFS, overcast, paullam, Phosphorus, Rifitto, seansasLCY, SXI899, TheEuphorian, tnotten, UA444, VolvoBus and 510 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos