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PepeTheFrog
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:33 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
From memory, I think most new aircraft test programs plan for around 2000-3000 flight test hours.


- 787 logged more than 4000 hours
- A350 logged some 2500 hours

But those were completely new planes. A330neo for example performed just 1500 hours. Now the 777X comes with more upgrades so if I had to make I guess I'd say anything between 1500 and 2000 hours would be a good estimate.

So with just 200 hours on the clock Boeing still has a lot of work to do.
Good moaning!
 
chiki
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:01 pm

Both test planes airborne
https://twitter.com/flightradar24/statu ... 63488?s=19

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Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:41 pm

N779XX currently on it’s way to Moses lake at 5:30AM
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:10 pm

For comparison : Certification of the 747-8 series, also a derative aircraft, with new engines, a new wing profile (same wing box, so no static/fatigue testing needed ) and increased length fuselage.

Boeing's target was to gain FAA and EASA certification in the fourth quarter of 2010 after a 3,700-hour test program, of which around 1,600 will be flight hours and 2,100 ground test hours. The campaign initially would have used only three test aircraft.

Finally five 747-8F test aircraft were used with a flight hour total of 3290,52 hours.
For the 747-8I certification three test aircraft were used with a flight hour total of 1093,05 hours.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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VCVSpotter
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:44 pm

777-9 N779XW filed BFI-BFI 3:45PM - 5:45PM as BOE1.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

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Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:42 pm

https://www.aerospacetestinginternation ... tests.html

Just an update on how the GE9X is progressing
 
Blasst
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:14 pm

Opus99 wrote:
https://www.aerospacetestinginternational.com/news/engine-testing/ge9x-engine-nears-final-certification-tests.html

Just an update on how the GE9X is progressing


At the end of that article there is a link to a video, https://p.widencdn.net/c9nl5y/GE9X_BlockTest_v3 of "Block Testing", can someone give some details what that entails? And what it the large "ball" that is attached?
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:16 am

Blasst wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
https://www.aerospacetestinginternational.com/news/engine-testing/ge9x-engine-nears-final-certification-tests.html

Just an update on how the GE9X is progressing


At the end of that article there is a link to a video, https://p.widencdn.net/c9nl5y/GE9X_BlockTest_v3 of "Block Testing", can someone give some details what that entails? And what it the large "ball" that is attached?

The ball keeps vortices from forming that occur in no velocity near ground operation of an engine at high throttle. A moving aircraft breaks the vortex. If the ball isn't there, asymmetrical flow disturbs the test results and results in data worse than in service.

I do not know the particulars of GEs block test. In general there is a run at maximum thrust for maximum allowed time, as the link notes, followed by the engine then doing a maximum continuous thrust climb setting. There are thrust transients, for example, flight idle to maximum thrust (aborted landing).

As the compressor linkages had issues before, the thrust settings will be varied to excercise the compressor stators. So reduced thrust takeoffs, reduced thrust climb, thrust reverse, anything that might impact the engine.

It is a rather expensive, multi day test.

Many engines fail the test. Compressor stator mapping is found to be wrong (insufficient compressor stall margin on one side or poor engine efficiency on the other side, this is a science that appears to be an art to those who don't know how the optimizations work on compressor stator mapping). Note: my knowledge is on old airfoil shapes, so it takes an informed team to do this programing and to plan the test.

Lightsaber
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Blasst
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:09 am

Lightsaber,

Ah, thanks for taking the time to explain in detail what the testing entails. Technology is an amazing, wonderful thing to see being implemented on aircraft. I bet some of those involved in testing aircraft engines have some stories to tell when one blows in that setup! Those two massive concrete "towers" which the engine is sandwiched in- between, have probably seen some violent action when that happens.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:45 am

lightsaber wrote:
The ball keeps vortices from forming that occur in no velocity near ground operation of an engine at high throttle. A moving aircraft breaks the vortex. If the ball isn't there, asymmetrical flow disturbs the test results and results in data worse than in service.
Lightsaber


On tests like this do they try to correct for altitude? I envision by adjusting the %free area of the ball there could be enough pressure drop to replicate inlet conditions at altitude. However, it would not correct for the lower outlet pressure at altitude.
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:01 am

WH003 777-9 N779XY is scheduled for ARINC 629 engineering ground testing and E2E functional checks on June 23.

Can anyone explain what this testing is?

http://kpae.blogspot.com/2020/06/paine- ... ne-22.html
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:18 am

JayinKitsap wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
The ball keeps vortices from forming that occur in no velocity near ground operation of an engine at high throttle. A moving aircraft breaks the vortex. If the ball isn't there, asymmetrical flow disturbs the test results and results in data worse than in service.
Lightsaber


On tests like this do they try to correct for altitude? I envision by adjusting the %free area of the ball there could be enough pressure drop to replicate inlet conditions at altitude. However, it would not correct for the lower outlet pressure at altitude.

The number of corrections is mind numbing. Tests are repeated at minor changes as different parameters of conditions often cannot be simultaneously tested on the ground.

There is a reason all engines are flown on test aircraft.

However, there is some rigorous testing that occurred that must occur to certify an engine.

The fun is when one engine is blowing air into another to achieve the flight inlet mach number... The testing gets interesting.

Lightsaber
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TropicalSky
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:59 pm

never heard of that part - engine blowing air into another.....it's always great to learn something new here on the forum

lightsaber wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
The ball keeps vortices from forming that occur in no velocity near ground operation of an engine at high throttle. A moving aircraft breaks the vortex. If the ball isn't there, asymmetrical flow disturbs the test results and results in data worse than in service.
Lightsaber


On tests like this do they try to correct for altitude? I envision by adjusting the %free area of the ball there could be enough pressure drop to replicate inlet conditions at altitude. However, it would not correct for the lower outlet pressure at altitude.

The number of corrections is mind numbing. Tests are repeated at minor changes as different parameters of conditions often cannot be simultaneously tested on the ground.

There is a reason all engines are flown on test aircraft.

However, there is some rigorous testing that occurred that must occur to certify an engine.

The fun is when one engine is blowing air into another to achieve the flight inlet mach number... The testing gets interesting.

Lightsaber
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:41 pm

777-9 N779XW filed BFI-BFI 9:20AM - 10:12AM as BOE1 for high altitude stability and control testing.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1
http://kpae.blogspot.com/2020/06/paine- ... ne-22.html
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:29 pm

Emirates COO saying it’s not clear if Boeing would deliver the 777X next year. Has something come up? Although he says they are not tin talks to cancel any orders.

https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/06 ... rline.html
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:36 pm

Opus99 wrote:
Emirates COO saying it’s not clear if Boeing would deliver the 777X next year. Has something come up? Although he says they are not tin talks to cancel any orders.

https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/06 ... rline.html


I'd say that there's 3 possible reasons, (maybe more, but these are off the top of my head):
1. Boeing and/or the FAA is taking longer to test/certify the plane after the 737MAX debacle and make sure they thoroughly test everything.
2. Boeing is just slowing development amid the global climate, knowing that the 779 won't be in demand until after COVID passes.
3. Emirates is in talks to delay (but NOT cancel) their 779 order.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

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744SPX
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:58 pm

They should use any delays to get the first 777-8 built and tested
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:45 pm

Opus99 wrote:
Emirates COO saying it’s not clear if Boeing would deliver the 777X next year. Has something come up? Although he says they are not tin talks to cancel any orders.

https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/06 ... rline.html


I expect Boeing is deliberately delaying the development process on top of the 2 month COVID delay.

Neither LH, EK or QR want to burn cash taking on aircraft they may not require until mid 2022 or so anyway.
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:15 pm

VCVSpotter wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Emirates COO saying it’s not clear if Boeing would deliver the 777X next year. Has something come up? Although he says they are not tin talks to cancel any orders.

https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/06 ... rline.html


I'd say that there's 3 possible reasons, (maybe more, but these are off the top of my head):
1. Boeing and/or the FAA is taking longer to test/certify the plane after the 737MAX debacle and make sure they thoroughly test everything.
2. Boeing is just slowing development amid the global climate, knowing that the 779 won't be in demand until after COVID passes.
3. Emirates is in talks to delay (but NOT cancel) their 779 order.


I think 2 and 3 can reasonably be interpreted as mutually beneficial and likely to both be true - if the customer relaxes their delivery date, Boeing can likely avoid some overtime and similar expenses in completing the flight testing, other certification work, and final completion of the first deliveries.

If Boeing isn't pressing to make the delivery and get paid, Emirates can keep their finances more liquid to better weather the recovery.

Somewhere I also saw an article recently about the challenges of continuing certification work with the FAA amid remote work policies.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:49 pm

777-9 N779XW filed BFI-BFI 10:30AM - 3:28PM as BOE1.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
smartplane
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:30 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Emirates COO saying it’s not clear if Boeing would deliver the 777X next year. Has something come up? Although he says they are not tin talks to cancel any orders.

https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/06 ... rline.html


I'd say that there's 3 possible reasons, (maybe more, but these are off the top of my head):
1. Boeing and/or the FAA is taking longer to test/certify the plane after the 737MAX debacle and make sure they thoroughly test everything.
2. Boeing is just slowing development amid the global climate, knowing that the 779 won't be in demand until after COVID passes.
3. Emirates is in talks to delay (but NOT cancel) their 779 order.


I think 2 and 3 can reasonably be interpreted as mutually beneficial and likely to both be true - if the customer relaxes their delivery date, Boeing can likely avoid some overtime and similar expenses in completing the flight testing, other certification work, and final completion of the first deliveries.

If Boeing isn't pressing to make the delivery and get paid, Emirates can keep their finances more liquid to better weather the recovery.

Somewhere I also saw an article recently about the challenges of continuing certification work with the FAA amid remote work policies.

Apart from a couple of exceptional customers, no-one is making milestone payments on ordered aircraft. Virtually all are being deferred. Those close to delivery will go into default, re-pricing for delivery, or deferred, some triggering regulatory market reporting, something OEM's and customers are working hard to avoid.

Development / production slowdown buys time, though not good for the OEM's cashflow.

In respect to 1, the MAX review group added the X to their agenda in 4Q19, part of the reason CAAS came on board. Not all meetings take place with FAA reps present.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:39 am

WH003 initial engine start which was going to run for about 3 hours

Image

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/12 ... 57728?s=20
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:29 pm

777-9 N779XW filed BFI-BFI 1:35PM - 5:22PM as BOE1.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
Spetsnaz55
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:41 am

Its ground speed just now was 145 knots.. how much more slower can it get? Just curious
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:41 am

Spetsnaz55 wrote:
Its ground speed just now was 145 knots.. how much more slower can it get? Just curious

I know this is off topic but it ca get very much slower!
https://youtu.be/0jz957KRXzQ

Incidentally the 777x reminds me of the A330 from certain angles.

Fred


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Image
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:25 pm

777-9 N779XW on another test flight BFI-BFI as BOE1. This is the first flight on a Sunday.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

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flipdewaf
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:49 pm

VCVSpotter wrote:
777-9 N779XW on another test flight BFI-BFI as BOE1. This is the first flight on a Sunday.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1

Interesting, do you think that has any significance with regards to getting the certification completed ASAP i.e. customers pushing even during the current crisis?

Fred


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Image
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:51 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:
777-9 N779XW on another test flight BFI-BFI as BOE1. This is the first flight on a Sunday.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1

Interesting, do you think that has any significance with regards to getting the certification completed ASAP i.e. customers pushing even during the current crisis?

Fred


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't think that it's because customers are pushing, it may be that there are specific conditions or times that they want to test, and this just happened to fall on a Sunday. Either way, it's good news for those of us who have work/school (if either of those get back to normal anytime soon) for us to go spotting on the weekend and see it.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

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kriskarch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:36 am

flipdewaf wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:
777-9 N779XW on another test flight BFI-BFI as BOE1. This is the first flight on a Sunday.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1

Interesting, do you think that has any significance with regards to getting the certification completed ASAP i.e. customers pushing even during the current crisis?



I don't think it would be a god idea for Boeing to let the customers push for faster certification.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:31 pm

VCVSpotter wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:
777-9 N779XW on another test flight BFI-BFI as BOE1. This is the first flight on a Sunday.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1

Interesting, do you think that has any significance with regards to getting the certification completed ASAP i.e. customers pushing even during the current crisis?

Fred


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't think that it's because customers are pushing, it may be that there are specific conditions or times that they want to test, and this just happened to fall on a Sunday. Either way, it's good news for those of us who have work/school (if either of those get back to normal anytime soon) for us to go spotting on the weekend and see it.

Flight testing routinely works 7 days a week. I'm surprised no earlier Sunday flight. There is a certain daily cost to be in flight test, flight or no flight, so it makes sense to hurry it up, when possible.

Much of that cost is an idle production line. Also, if Boeing does a 777xF, the lowest cost path is to certify the 779 first.

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Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:29 pm

 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:13 pm

Opus99 wrote:
https://twitter.com/boeingairplanes/status/1277666936902557697?s=21

Boeing officially introduces WH003


They said that flight/preparations for it would be in the 'weeks ahead.' I guess that blows any hope of it flying before the end of June as many (including myself) had speculated.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

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Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:20 am

VCVSpotter wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
https://twitter.com/boeingairplanes/status/1277666936902557697?s=21

Boeing officially introduces WH003


They said that flight/preparations for it would be in the 'weeks ahead.' I guess that blows any hope of it flying before the end of June as many (including myself) had speculated.

Yes WH003 has officially started its own form of testing. Yesterday they conducted thrust checks - propulsion performance
 
TropicalSky
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:42 pm

WH003/N779XX also did tests on the Hydraulics along with propulsion
http://kpae.blogspot.com


Opus99 wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
https://twitter.com/boeingairplanes/status/1277666936902557697?s=21

Boeing officially introduces WH003


They said that flight/preparations for it would be in the 'weeks ahead.' I guess that blows any hope of it flying before the end of June as many (including myself) had speculated.

Yes WH003 has officially started its own form of testing. Yesterday they conducted thrust checks - propulsion performance
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:13 pm

Folks, this is a production/testing thread. Please discuss 777x sales elsewhere.
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Spetsnaz55
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:25 pm

Where is VCVspotter lol. N779XX is in the air.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:56 pm

Spetsnaz55 wrote:
Where is VCVspotter lol. N779XX is in the air.


Lmao. I was at PMD catching Catfish 757 departing to STL, fair enough excuse? :lol: Well 777-9 N779XX flying BFI-MWH departed 10:02AM.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE2
Link for Catfish if you're interested: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE57A
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:47 pm

777-9 N779XX filed MWH-BFI 1:30PM - 5:00PM as BOE2.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE2
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:29 pm

777-9 N779XX filed BFI-BFI 1PM - 3:58PM as BOE2.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE2
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:03 am

According to this, "WH002 777-9 N779XX is scheduled for cargo ground testing at Boeing Field on July 6."

http://kpae.blogspot.com/2020/07/paine- ... uly-2.html
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9

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