Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:05 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
Ok how about some news on the actual plane..... any updates?

well they've done weighing the aircraft then its now carrying out some primary flight control system testing. I see no reason why the aircraft can't take off next week, obviously from my point of view.
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:38 pm

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/12 ... 00608?s=21

Can someone please tell me what kind of test this is?
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:38 am

Opus99 wrote:
Can someone please tell me what kind of test this is?


Sounds like this, maybe?

By definition, electromagnetic compatibility (EMC) describes the ability of a system, a piece of equipment, or some other electrical device that utilises electromagnetic energy, to operate in its intended environment without suffering an unacceptable degradation in its performance, or negatively impacting the ability of another device to perform its intended function.
 
nikeherc
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:43 am

They are verifying that the various antennas on the aircraft do not interfere with each other or other systems in the aircraft.
DC6 to 777 and most things in between
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:31 am

They see to be working through the weekend on tests:
http://kpae.blogspot.com/2020/01/paine- ... ry-10.html

https://www.flightglobal.com/787-approa ... 30.article

Seems like the gauntlet block tests happened a week before first flight on the 787. So Jan 17 might be reasonable?
 
pugman211
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:36 am

Sounds like the last few tests before first flight to me.
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:51 am

pugman211 wrote:
Sounds like the last few tests before first flight to me.

Same here
 
Checklist787
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:53 am

Opus99 wrote:
They see to be working through the weekend on tests:
http://kpae.blogspot.com/2020/01/paine- ... ry-10.html

https://www.flightglobal.com/787-approa ... 30.article

Seems like the gauntlet block tests happened a week before first flight on the 787. So Jan 17 might be reasonable?


pugman211 wrote:
Sounds like the last few tests before first flight to me.


Yes I remember the 787 flew a few days after the end of the gauntlet tests in December 2009 ...

I hope 2020 will be better than 2019 even if the 737MAX won't fly for at least a year ...
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:34 pm

The topic is the 777x Testing/Production. Please stay on topic.
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MileHFL400
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:10 pm

Did the gauntlet testing happen then?
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:36 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
Did the gauntlet testing happen then?

Starting today. Apparently the tentative date for taxi tests is January 17th.

http://kpae.blogspot.com/2020/01/paine- ... ry-10.html
 
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ER757
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:35 am

Opus99 wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
Did the gauntlet testing happen then?

Starting today. Apparently the tentative date for taxi tests is January 17th.

http://kpae.blogspot.com/2020/01/paine- ... ry-10.html

Pretty good chance it'll fly by end of the month then.... :crossfingers:
 
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ChrisNH38
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:20 pm

The first flight will be a big morale-booster for Boeing, no doubt. I hope Boeing does a live stream so we can watch her take to the skies.
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:52 pm

Snow is expected all this week so I am guessing testing is going to be curtailed a bit.
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:08 pm

Stitch wrote:
Snow is expected all this week so I am guessing testing is going to be curtailed a bit.


Another delay. Just what this program needed.
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
Checklist787
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:00 pm

ChrisNH38 wrote:
The first flight will be a big morale-booster for Boeing, no doubt. I hope Boeing does a live stream so we can watch her take to the skies.


With the new "more humble" and transparent management, it will indeed give something fresher. "Sleeves are rolled up" there will still be a lot of work to get a good reliable and safe aircraft ...

I wish :roll:
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:30 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
Stitch wrote:
Snow is expected all this week so I am guessing testing is going to be curtailed a bit.


Another delay. Just what this program needed.


So we can blame Boeing for the weather too?
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mjoelnir
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:51 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
Stitch wrote:
Snow is expected all this week so I am guessing testing is going to be curtailed a bit.


Another delay. Just what this program needed.


So we can blame Boeing for the weather too?


Who was blaming Boeing for the weather?
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:17 pm

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/12 ... 07328?s=21

Just always something to spoil the show :(
 
nycbjr
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:29 pm

Opus99 wrote:
https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/1217177928846307328?s=21

Just always something to spoil the show :(


What does this mean? Excess water in the engines and it froze?
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:29 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Who was blaming Boeing for the weather?


We can blame it in the Canadians. The cold spell is coming from Canada down the Frasier River Basin.

bt
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Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:35 pm

nycbjr wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/1217177928846307328?s=21

Just always something to spoil the show :(


What does this mean? Excess water in the engines and it froze?

I have no idea but apparently everyone is coming down from the aircraft. :(
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:53 pm

Opus99 wrote:
https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/1217177928846307328?s=21

Just always something to spoil the show :(

Thank goodness #girlsinyogapants is trending! :biggrin:
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:53 pm

nycbjr wrote:
What does this mean? Excess water in the engines and it froze?


It's been windy up around Everett so it is possible moisture (freezing rain / snow / sleet) was blown into the engine and froze.
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:55 pm

Stitch wrote:
nycbjr wrote:
What does this mean? Excess water in the engines and it froze?


It's been windy up around Everett so it is possible moisture (freezing rain / snow / sleet) was blown into the engine and froze.

How long do we think it will take to resolve this ice issue?
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:58 pm

Opus99 wrote:
How long do we think it will take to resolve this ice issue?


No idea, to be honest. Guess it depends on where the freezing occurred and how easy it is to melt the icicles.

Weather up around PAE is supposed to worsen tomorrow with wind and snow (especially in the evening), but then it's set to warm up into the weekend.
 
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GEUltraFan9XGTF
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:23 pm

Don't engines get ice in them all the time?
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Revelation
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:18 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Don't engines get ice in them all the time?

Sure, and you're pretty confident that they will cope with it pretty well after the engine has been through all its flight tests.

However, before the first time it flies installed on the target airframe you aren't as confident.

In flight testing you try to retire your risks one at a time.

Till it gets off the ground the first time there are a LOT of risks so you're very cautious before first flight.

Maybe they should keep it parked in a hangar heated to above 0C ?

Ref: viewtopic.php?t=1126191
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tomcat
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:45 pm

Opus99 wrote:
https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/1217177928846307328?s=21

Just always something to spoil the show :(


It's an opportunity to test the folding wingtips in icing conditions :-). Let's give them some exercise!
 
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BoeingVista
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:09 am

Stitch wrote:

It's directly akin to the A380-800's Ultimate Load test failure - at 148%, it was close enough to the goal that once the root cause was identified, a re-do was not required and the frame was signed off as passing the test so it could be certified. I expect the same to happen with the 777X.


And once more Stitch, no its not. The A380 failure happened at the predicted point but a couple of percent early, the 777X failure did not happen in any predicted area. Not the same at all.
BV
 
Spetsnaz55
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:04 am

Suspended operations tomorrow. More delays in Everett
 
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:22 am

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Don't engines get ice in them all the time?


Seems like it was an engine vibration issue according to Matt Cowby’s blog.
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Checklist787
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:16 am

MileHFL400 wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Don't engines get ice in them all the time?


Seems like it was an engine vibration issue according to Matt Cowby’s blog.


Hope it will resolves quickly...
Last edited by Checklist787 on Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:35 am, edited 6 times in total.
 
VV
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:26 am

I guess the engines are running at low regimes during a gauntlet tes on the ground.

The ice shedding procedure and some other things cannot be done in those conditions and thus they needed to shut down the test.

Tests will continue when the conditions allow and obviously the aircraft will fly when it is ready to do so. It is a matter of days or weeks. I think.
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:28 am

Yes operations will resume on Thursday
 
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zeke
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:29 am

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Don't engines get ice in them all the time?


Most engines operating in freezing fog at low thrust will get a buildup of ice inside them as they are operated. Engines have a limit as to how long they are operated in those conditions, and specific procedures to be adopted.

To clear the engine of ice mechanics normally just use a gasoline heater much like found in GA aircraft to blow hot air into the engine.
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Checklist787
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:37 am

Opus99 wrote:
Yes operations will resume on Thursday


A source please?
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:58 am

Checklist787 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Yes operations will resume on Thursday


A source please?

Matt Cawby’s blog:

http://kpae.blogspot.com/2020/01/paine- ... ry-14.html

Testing will resume on The 17th
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:02 am

So I just listened to the transmission audio on Matt cawbys blog. And it seems like the vibration might have been due to the icicle? I don’t know if that’s a thing. I mean it doesn’t seem that big of an issue if they’re restarting the test on Thursday
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:55 am

Yes, the weather is quite crappy in the Puget Sound area. All the schools in Kitsap County have been closed for 2 days, Wed does not look much better.


https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.p ... h7S1fLYr-c
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:40 pm

BoeingVista wrote:
The A380 failure happened at the predicted point but a couple of percent early, the 777X failure did not happen in any predicted area. Not the same at all.


True, the location is not the same. However, Because the wing is composite, they probably would not have predicted a failure at the wing as it would have been over design due to the nature of analyzing and predicting composite failure. So where else would they predict the failure other than somewhere in the fuselage?

Also true that they may have say that they did not expected failure at that area. Or was that information second hand? But to the regulators, failure is a failure and the process of remediation would be the same even though the method may be different.

bt
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kriskarch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:19 pm

I heard that taxi tests are still scheduled for Jan 17th.

Kris
 
Spetsnaz55
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:05 pm

Snowing bad again..most likely more delays
 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:20 am

Leeham is questioning the extent to which the FAA will accept grandfathering for 777X certification. If not, a year or more could be added to the certification timeline:

https://leehamnews.com/2020/01/16/certi ... more-32216
 
VV
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:41 pm

Spetsnaz55 wrote:
Snowing bad again..most likely more delays


Most probably snow would have stopped tomorrow and temperature will rise slowly.

Next week should be better.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:00 pm

Peculiar thing about snow in Western Washington is that it is hard to get a source of moisture and a source of cold air at the same time. Roughly, dry cold air comes from the east through the Fraser and Columbia Rivers, moisture has to come from Pacific Ocean. Then the Olympic Mountains create a blockage to the central Puget Sound area, and snow fall and temperatures can vary greatly in two locations just a few miles apart as the winds and moisture work their way through our geography.
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Revelation
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:58 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
Leeham is questioning the extent to which the FAA will accept grandfathering for 777X certification. If not, a year or more could be added to the certification timeline:

https://leehamnews.com/2020/01/16/certi ... more-32216

More details from the article:

There are questions circulating in the aviation community whether the FAA will revisit every certification step done so far for the 777X and what it will look like in the future.
...
In the wake of the MAX crisis, LNA is told that the overarching question is whether these changes are extensive enough to prompt the FAA to require a new type certificate rather than certifying the X as a derivative.

If the FAA chooses the former, it could add a year or more to the certification process. Boeing sold the X to airlines on a delivery schedule based on an amended type certificate. A new type certificate not only delays the delivery schedule, but adds costs to the airline.

So Leeham/Hamilton himself is not questioning the derivative vs new type question, he is reporting "the aviation community" is, but is not citing anyone associated with Boeing or the FAA. In short it's a lot of conjecture. He points out Boeing's plans presume it will be certified as a derivative but provides no one willing to go on the record to say that this is not the way it will happen. Member BoeingGuy told us the certification basis for 777x was already established as a derivative, but of course that too is just an anonymous internet source, and the MCAS tragedy may have caused that to change. Bottom line is we have a lot of sizzle but no bacon.
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PepeTheFrog
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:14 pm

I'm not familiar with Leeham but in my opinion it would be naive to believe the MAX saga won't have any effect on the 777X certification.
 
ILNFlyer
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:01 pm

PepeTheFrog wrote:
I'm not familiar with Leeham but in my opinion it would be naive to believe the MAX saga won't have any effect on the 777X certification.


....or any other airplane program going forward, for that matter.
 
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par13del
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:06 pm

PepeTheFrog wrote:
I'm not familiar with Leeham but in my opinion it would be naive to believe the MAX saga won't have any effect on the 777X certification.

Do we assume that everyone see's that as a problem?

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