Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
ikolkyo
Posts: 2950
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat May 02, 2020 5:03 am

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
A friend on the inside told me that FL 30+ not possible because of pressure loads on aft cargo door.


I hope this is joke, right?

Not sure!


Well, that was the reason many here gave for it not going over FL 20, right? If it flies over FL 30, then I will assume FL 35 not possible because of the aft cargo door. We can just keep repeating the mantra, right? Repeat our so-called "facts" to justify why the 77X shouldn't exist.


You’re the one extending the mantra right now, let it go man.
 
User avatar
Chipmunk1973
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:23 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat May 02, 2020 5:26 am

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
A friend on the inside told me that FL 30+ not possible because of pressure loads on aft cargo door.


Think you might be missing a zero. Although I’m not intimately familiar with the Pacific north-west of the USA, I know there are some large mountains there and 3,000 feet seems a little low.
Cheers,
C1973
 
User avatar
GEUltraFan9XGTF
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:31 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat May 02, 2020 6:03 am

ikolkyo wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
FrenchPotatoEye wrote:

I hope this is joke, right?

Not sure!


Well, that was the reason many here gave for it not going over FL 20, right? If it flies over FL 30, then I will assume FL 35 not possible because of the aft cargo door. We can just keep repeating the mantra, right? Repeat our so-called "facts" to justify why the 77X shouldn't exist.


You’re the one extending the mantra right now, let it go man.


I will. I think I made my point?
© 2020. All statements are my own. The use of my statements, including by journalists, YouTube vloggers like "DJ's Aviation", etc. without my written consent is strictly prohibited.
 
Opus99
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Sat May 02, 2020 1:35 pm

With initial airworthiness now complete. What happens next in terms of the type of testing we will begin to see. This is the first test flight program I’m monitoring closely. Which is exciting!
 
User avatar
VCVSpotter
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:10 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 7:31 am

Hello! Long time 'lurker,' first time poster. I've been tracking the development of the 777-9, and also have made a spreadsheet for it as well that I think would be helpful to some on here. The spreadsheet also has some additional info, but for sake of discussion I'll mainly focus on the 777-9 here. Cheers

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
User avatar
VCVSpotter
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:10 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 3:58 pm

Another test flight filed for today, likely by N779XW due to the BOE1 callsign

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/boe1
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
airnorth
Posts: 438
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:30 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 4:06 pm

VCVSpotter wrote:
Hello! Long time 'lurker,' first time poster. I've been tracking the development of the 777-9, and also have made a spreadsheet for it as well that I think would be helpful to some on here. The spreadsheet also has some additional info, but for sake of discussion I'll mainly focus on the 777-9 here. Cheers

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing


Thanks for this, I really like it when someone puts such an effort into their hobby, so that all of us can enjoy! :D
 
Opus99
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 4:16 pm

I believe this should be the first flight with test engineers onboard!
 
User avatar
VCVSpotter
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:10 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 6:03 pm

Anyone know when she'll be ready to head to Southern California Logistics Airport (VCV/KVCV) for testing? Based off of data from previous 787 test programs I got off of the web, I'm guessing that it'll happen somewhere in early June (just over 1 month since the 2nd aircraft flew, like the 787s). Really want to catch her arrival there, and would definitely appreciate any additional info.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
EK7777
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:59 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 8:06 pm

N779XW just landed at BFI.

N779XX is now showing up on FR24 at BFI as well.
 
User avatar
CCA
Posts: 796
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2002 7:29 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 1:46 pm

VCVSpotter wrote:
Another test flight filed for today, likely by N779XW due to the BOE1 callsign

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/boe1


Likewise, thank you, a nice go to for when you miss some flights.
Enthusiast
 
User avatar
VCVSpotter
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:10 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 3:09 pm

Looks like yesterday's (May 4) flight was to test for stick shaker and buffet conditions. Today (May 5) they will be conducting a high speed envelope expansion test.

Source: http://kpae.blogspot.com/2020/05/paine-field-may-4.html
Playback of May 4th Flight: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
User avatar
VCVSpotter
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:10 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 5:03 pm

ANA has delayed several aircraft, but an important quote is that the 777-9 has been delayed by Boeing:
"As for the 777-9X that we’ve ordered, delivery has been postponed partly due to circumstances on their end.” Katanozaka told Nikkei."

Is this another delay, or is it the general delay caused by the engines and everything else? Does anybody know?

Link to full article: https://airlinegeeks.com/2020/05/05/all ... -aircraft/
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
User avatar
bikerthai
Posts: 3258
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:45 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 5:45 pm

VCVSpotter wrote:
Is this another delay, or is it the general delay caused by the engines and everything else? Does anybody know?


The article said it was Covid Related. Boeing has lost about a month in their production schedule. With the new safety guidelines for going back to work, things will progress more slowly.

Not sure if this will affect the first few frames, but even if Boeing start up production again, the sub tier suppliers may not be able to support as Washington is ahead of the curve. The rest of the country is one to two months behind with different states at different timelines. The disruption to the supply chain is being felt all over.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
User avatar
VCVSpotter
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:10 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 8:21 pm

Test flight out of BFI for N779XW (my guess again as call sign is BOE1) scheduled for 2PM. It is currently 1:19PM (both times are Pacific Standard). Should be interesting to watch the speed on this flight as they are supposed to be doing an envelope expansion flight for speed today. And as for the previous argument, testing has definitely not hit a wall, especially with a test flight TODAY. Things are going as they should (minus the whole COVID delay).

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/boe1
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
User avatar
VCVSpotter
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:10 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 12:03 am

777-9 N779XW has hit 400kts at 11:18PM UTC (4:18PM Pacific), the highest speed achieved by a 777-9 so far. It seems that they just wanted to hit 400kts, as they backed off right after and now are doing loops at 254kts.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... w#24741662
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
bspc
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:07 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 12:09 am

VCVSpotter wrote:
Hello! Long time 'lurker,' first time poster. I've been tracking the development of the 777-9, and also have made a spreadsheet for it as well that I think would be helpful to some on here. The spreadsheet also has some additional info, but for sake of discussion I'll mainly focus on the 777-9 here. Cheers

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing


Great work! :bigthumbsup:
 
User avatar
ER757
Posts: 3741
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 12:46 am

VCVSpotter wrote:
777-9 N779XW has hit 400kts at 11:18PM UTC (4:18PM Pacific), the highest speed achieved by a 777-9 so far. It seems that they just wanted to hit 400kts, as they backed off right after and now are doing loops at 254kts.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... w#24741662

over 480 mph now, looks like they opened up the throttle to blow the carbon out of the pipes as my Dad used to say
 
User avatar
VCVSpotter
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:10 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 1:28 am

777-9 N779XW returning to base at BFI after hitting a top speed of 446kts (513mph) today at 12:36AM UTC (5:36PM Pacific). Fast girl ;) :spin:

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n779xw
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
User avatar
GEUltraFan9XGTF
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:31 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 2:56 am

There has been a lot of unsubstantiated doom and gloom spewed about the 777-9. I'd like to offer a counter hypothesis:

The bird will over perform. It will surpass expectations. The reason the 778 is being downplayed is because the 779 will have the capacity and the range to do what the 778 can do. It's still too early for Boeing to know this but my guess is they're slowly learning it now.
© 2020. All statements are my own. The use of my statements, including by journalists, YouTube vloggers like "DJ's Aviation", etc. without my written consent is strictly prohibited.
 
User avatar
VCVSpotter
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:10 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 3:43 am

As so many people across various threads have complimented my spreadsheet (once again, thank you to all of you who have expressed your gratitude, I love that sharing some of my aviation passion can have such a powerful impact on the community during these times), I was wondering what method you would like in differentiating the different registrations on my 777-9 flight testing log? Right now, I just highlighted only the registration part of N779XX's maiden flight in orange (bc it's a color that allows the font to be seen, but it stands out. Also, by not highlighting the whole row it isn't as 'annoying'). I was thinking of highlighting the other 2, N779XY/N779XZ (when they join the program), in different colors that are easy on the eyes while still standing out (maybe green and blue? Those seemed ok when I was going through the color palette) as well, while keeping N779XW, the most active 777-9, in white. Is that something that everyone would prefer? Is there another way you would like to see them differentiated?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
User avatar
Chipmunk1973
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:23 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 5:02 am

VCVSpotter wrote:
As so many people across various threads have complimented my spreadsheet (once again, thank you to all of you who have expressed your gratitude, I love that sharing some of my aviation passion can have such a powerful impact on the community during these times), I was wondering what method you would like in differentiating the different registrations on my 777-9 flight testing log? Right now, I just highlighted only the registration part of N779XX's maiden flight in orange (bc it's a color that allows the font to be seen, but it stands out. Also, by not highlighting the whole row it isn't as 'annoying'). I was thinking of highlighting the other 2, N779XY/N779XZ (when they join the program), in different colors that are easy on the eyes while still standing out (maybe green and blue? Those seemed ok when I was going through the color palette) as well, while keeping N779XW, the most active 777-9, in white. Is that something that everyone would prefer? Is there another way you would like to see them differentiated?


Another thanks from me. It’s great to see someone show so much initiative and effort.

Off the top of my head, I can’t recall who compiled the spreadsheet for the flight testing of the A350. But if memory serves, they way that they configured theirs was to have the first sheet in the workbook as a summary page showing the total flight hours per plane as well as overall. They then compiled the flight data for each test frame on an individual worksheet.

I’m not suggesting you need to make yours the same, just offering some food for thought.

Again, thanks.
Cheers,
C1973
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 2089
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 6:04 am

VCVSpotter wrote:
As so many people across various threads have complimented my spreadsheet (once again, thank you to all of you who have expressed your gratitude, I love that sharing some of my aviation passion can have such a powerful impact on the community during these times), I was wondering what method you would like in differentiating the different registrations on my 777-9 flight testing log? Right now, I just highlighted only the registration part of N779XX's maiden flight in orange (bc it's a color that allows the font to be seen, but it stands out. Also, by not highlighting the whole row it isn't as 'annoying'). I was thinking of highlighting the other 2, N779XY/N779XZ (when they join the program), in different colors that are easy on the eyes while still standing out (maybe green and blue? Those seemed ok when I was going through the color palette) as well, while keeping N779XW, the most active 777-9, in white. Is that something that everyone would prefer? Is there another way you would like to see them differentiated?


As others have said, thank you for all this effort and the planned effort in the future. As someone that has kept databases going, simple is essential so that it is easy to keep up with when 4 or 5 planes are flying. Here are some of my suggestions, but adapt to how things work for you.

- The line number spreadsheet at some point should be separate from the flight test sheet, that allows the column widths to be sized for the normal data.
- Row 3 - narrow the column headers to fit the typical data, widen the right most column for additional notes.
- Row 4 - some data this row is wide, the static frame can just be LN9995, put the 'write off' in the notes column with dismantled.
- Col B - I would bold and use either WH001 or BOE1 as the primary identifier, by the test data do you really want to type out the LN every time. This spreadsheet tells what line number is BOE1.
-Col F - the data in this is going to be changing constantly - simpler more general locations: BFI and PAE already imply flight line, PP (pre production), PFA (prefinal assembly), FAL, Paint, and of course DEL.
-Col's - do you want first flight date and delivery date?

-the flight test spreadsheet
- Date in simple mm/dd/yr, pick the same as where you are getting the date from or that you like: 05MAY20, MM-DD-YY, OR DD-MM-YY depending on your own preference, but the column can be half the width.
- Drop the registration #, just use BOE1 callout.
- Sort the columns to match your source info, much faster entry.
- Add remarks column - Like today would be "broke 400 knots", FL35 or similar info.
- Every month do a banner line "June 2020 Flight Test"

You would probably see the same in a few weeks but then it is a lot of work to move around.

With the flight test data having the BOE1 column, the data can be worked and divided out or sorted after entry. Multiple spreadsheets is more work.

This looks quite promising.
 
User avatar
Chipmunk1973
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:23 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 8:14 am

Found the spreadsheet I was referring to.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=6
Cheers,
C1973
 
User avatar
VCVSpotter
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:10 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 9:58 am

I am currently working on the spreadsheet, incorporating some edits here and there, I've resized all of the columns, separated the production and testing spreadsheets, and have added breaks between months for the flight test spreadsheet. It is now 2:58AM Pacific time, so I will probably be going to bed soon, and will pick up editing it later 'today.' I do not think that I can do multiple spreadsheets (one for each aircraft), it is too time consuming. I am currently a junior in high school (if you didn't know that), I still need to keep up with my APs so I do not have too much extra time to do more than what I am already doing. Later today I'll be adding some more notes to both the test and production program spreadsheets. I do not think that I'll shorten the date or drop the registration just because I'm fine with writing out the full date (and it fits in the 175 size columns that I've created), and the callsign does change at times (back when N779XW used a BOE111 callsign). I will be looking into incorporating a first flight date into the production tracker, it already has a delivery date column. Let me know if there are any other edits you would like to see, and I'll definitely consider them and do my best to keep the good info coming. Here's a quick link to the spreadsheet so you don't have to scroll

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
EK7777
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:59 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 2:27 pm

B779 flight test log was already created back in February by me and another a.net member here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... _GfzQnDhA/

Furthermore, a B777 production tracker is already available here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... z2TPD-eD0/
 
morrisond
Posts: 2645
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:22 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 2:37 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
There has been a lot of unsubstantiated doom and gloom spewed about the 777-9. I'd like to offer a counter hypothesis:

The bird will over perform. It will surpass expectations. The reason the 778 is being downplayed is because the 779 will have the capacity and the range to do what the 778 can do. It's still too early for Boeing to know this but my guess is they're slowly learning it now.


I would agree. I think Boeing probably threw a lot more engineering resources at this bird to get the OEW weight down once they saw how good the A350 was turning out.

If they didn't - then it's there failure. But there isn't much that isn't brand spanking new on this aircraft except for the Outer Mold line, nose and probably lower lobe. It really is a new aircraft and should have been certificated as such.

Everything is basically new.

787 Cockpit/systems (except for 777 Bleed systems)
New Lighter Interior
New WIngBox
New Gear
New Wing
New Tail


I found a neat number on the A320 that the barrel and nose is only 3% of MTOW - say that is about Double on something like an 777 and OEW weight is about 55% of MTOW - so that means that by weight at least 90% of the aircraft/structure was touched.

Boeing uses many of the same tools and Vendors as Airbus. Given another 3-4 years of development time is it not reasonable to assume OEW weight is going to come in a lot better than some of the assumptions on here? I have seen as high as 190T which seems silly.

Wiki now puts it at 177T according to Bjorn Fehrm (March 7, 2019). "Boeing's 777X analyzed, Part 4"

It could be a closer to 170T which could make it's economics even better. The 777W is at 168T (but is that pre the 2016 weight savings program?)

777X is longer - but same MTOW. They could have saved a lot of weight elsewhere - if not - why did they change so many things?
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 10132
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 2:56 pm

morrisond wrote:
I would agree. I think Boeing probably threw a lot more engineering resources at this bird to get the OEW weight down once they saw how good the A350 was turning out.
777X is longer - but same MTOW. They could have saved a lot of weight elsewhere - if not - why did they change so many things?

I put those two sentences together and took out all the details on what was changed, it may be interesting to see a debate on just that, why would they spend so much and change so much if they just wanted an updated a/c? As the 777W is still being built, we can speculate that it is not because the suppliers are no longer available, changing the cockpit to 787 style predates the MAX drama so nothing to do with the FAA recent talk about human / machine interface. EK the largest customer does not have any 787's in their fleet nor orders when the design freeze was done, so if the 777X was custom made for EK, that surely was a waste, unless we are willing to admit that others did have a hand in the design.

If the additional changes did not make the a/c more efficient and or lighter, was it just the engineers and designers giving themselves more work?
 
Opus99
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 3:18 pm

morrisond wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
There has been a lot of unsubstantiated doom and gloom spewed about the 777-9. I'd like to offer a counter hypothesis:

The bird will over perform. It will surpass expectations. The reason the 778 is being downplayed is because the 779 will have the capacity and the range to do what the 778 can do. It's still too early for Boeing to know this but my guess is they're slowly learning it now.


I would agree. I think Boeing probably threw a lot more engineering resources at this bird to get the OEW weight down once they saw how good the A350 was turning out.

If they didn't - then it's there failure. But there isn't much that isn't brand spanking new on this aircraft except for the Outer Mold line, nose and probably lower lobe. It really is a new aircraft and should have been certificated as such.

Everything is basically new.

787 Cockpit/systems (except for 777 Bleed systems)
New Lighter Interior
New WIngBox
New Gear
New Wing
New Tail


I found a neat number on the A320 that the barrel and nose is only 3% of MTOW - say that is about Double on something like an 777 and OEW weight is about 55% of MTOW - so that means that by weight at least 90% of the aircraft/structure was touched.

Boeing uses many of the same tools and Vendors as Airbus. Given another 3-4 years of development time is it not reasonable to assume OEW weight is going to come in a lot better than some of the assumptions on here? I have seen as high as 190T which seems silly.

Wiki now puts it at 177T according to Bjorn Fehrm (March 7, 2019). "Boeing's 777X analyzed, Part 4"

It could be a closer to 170T which could make it's economics even better. The 777W is at 168T (but is that pre the 2016 weight savings program?)

777X is longer - but same MTOW. They could have saved a lot of weight elsewhere - if not - why did they change so many things?

Yes I read the source and when analysed it says The 777-9 weighs 22T more than the A350-1000 which puts at around 177T. Apparently Boeing were able to keep the wings the same weight even though considerably bigger. It’s really the centre wing box and engineers that give the weight. The larger frame brings on only an extra 2 tonnes
 
Opus99
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 3:31 pm

“With fuselage and center wingbox of aluminum, it’s 22 tonnes heavier than the -1000. The heavier aircraft is equipped with a 71.8m span wing, which lowers the drag due to weight (induced drag).“

“When Boeing projected the 777X in its two variants, the larger 777-9 was made 2.1m longer than the 777-300ER and the smaller 777-8 was made 5.3m longer than the 777-200LR. These length increases have, as a consequence of the fuselage of the aircraft, still made with aluminum, increased their weight by 2t for the 777-9 (over the 777-300ER) and 3 tonnes for the 777-8 compared with the 777-200LR.”

“The wing got larger as well but was now made with a wingbox of Carbon Fiber Reinforced Plastic (CFRP) instead of aluminum. With a 7m longer wingspan (71.8m compared with 64.8m for the 777-200LR/300ER), there was no weight gain. But the fact an 11% longer wing could be kept at the same weight as the donor’s wing, it’s no small achievement.“

Just some quotes from the article. It’s behind a paywall and has 4 parts

https://leehamnews.com/2019/01/31/boein ... ed-part-2/

https://leehamnews.com/2019/03/07/boein ... ed-part-4/
 
User avatar
VCVSpotter
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:10 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 3:53 pm

EK7777 wrote:
B779 flight test log was already created back in February by me and another a.net member here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... _GfzQnDhA/

Furthermore, a B777 production tracker is already available here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... z2TPD-eD0/


Not to get into a competition, but my spreadsheet was created back before the 777-9 made her maiden flight, and for the purpose of my reference. That purpose has now changed now that it's public, but there are also a few key details that mine includes, such as the fact that it not only tracks the 777-9 test program, but it differentiates the 777 production line into 777-9 only. Also, once the 737MAX10 starts flying, it can become a 'one-stop shop' to see progress on the 777-9 and the 737MAX10.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
User avatar
VCVSpotter
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:10 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 4:16 pm

777-9 N779XX (BOE2) will conduct a test flight, departing BFI at 11:00AM, arriving back at BFI at 1:04PM. Interesting to note that this will be the first 777-9 flight over the Pacific.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE2
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
morrisond
Posts: 2645
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:22 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 5:17 pm

Opus99 wrote:
“With fuselage and center wingbox of aluminum, it’s 22 tonnes heavier than the -1000. The heavier aircraft is equipped with a 71.8m span wing, which lowers the drag due to weight (induced drag).“

“When Boeing projected the 777X in its two variants, the larger 777-9 was made 2.1m longer than the 777-300ER and the smaller 777-8 was made 5.3m longer than the 777-200LR. These length increases have, as a consequence of the fuselage of the aircraft, still made with aluminum, increased their weight by 2t for the 777-9 (over the 777-300ER) and 3 tonnes for the 777-8 compared with the 777-200LR.”

“The wing got larger as well but was now made with a wingbox of Carbon Fiber Reinforced Plastic (CFRP) instead of aluminum. With a 7m longer wingspan (71.8m compared with 64.8m for the 777-200LR/300ER), there was no weight gain. But the fact an 11% longer wing could be kept at the same weight as the donor’s wing, it’s no small achievement.“

Just some quotes from the article. It’s behind a paywall and has 4 parts

https://leehamnews.com/2019/01/31/boein ... ed-part-2/

https://leehamnews.com/2019/03/07/boein ... ed-part-4/


It sounds like with the after 2016 77W they took about 1,800 lbs out of it with the new crown constuction and tailskid deletion.

That would put it 167T - add two tons for the fuselage - wing same/engines about same - everything else lighter - more seats and longer interior - less than 177T seems entirely possible. The gear might be heavier it it's a little longer or they built it for higher potential MTOW - the rumoured 360T.

I know the 787 cockpit and systems are a bunch lighter, I can't remember how much - but its a significant difference - https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... Integrated

22 LRU down to 12 https://www.flightglobal.com/boeing-787 ... 22.article
 
User avatar
VCVSpotter
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:10 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 5:45 pm

Looks like N779XX (BOE2) is delayed by 2 hours, now departing BFI at 1:00PM and arriving at 5:30PM.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE2
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 23525
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 6:59 pm

VCVSpotter wrote:
EK7777 wrote:
B779 flight test log was already created back in February by me and another a.net member here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... _GfzQnDhA/

Furthermore, a B777 production tracker is already available here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... z2TPD-eD0/


Not to get into a competition, but my spreadsheet was created back before the 777-9 made her maiden flight, and for the purpose of my reference. That purpose has now changed now that it's public, but there are also a few key details that mine includes, such as the fact that it not only tracks the 777-9 test program, but it differentiates the 777 production line into 777-9 only. Also, once the 737MAX10 starts flying, it can become a 'one-stop shop' to see progress on the 777-9 and the 737MAX10.

The more the merrier, I say.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
User avatar
VCVSpotter
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:10 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 10:10 pm

Flight for N779XX got cancelled today

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/boe2
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
User avatar
bikerthai
Posts: 3258
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:45 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 3:02 pm

par13del wrote:
If the additional changes did not make the a/c more efficient and or lighter, was it just the engineers and designers giving themselves more work?


Of course, but management usually take a cut off the top because they believe the engineers over estimate anyway.

Seriously though, with the various parametric that the bean counter have now-a-days, it is much harder for Engineers to keep that reserves in their estimates.

Two of the major design change that would have caused a weight increase and has nothing to do with efficiency, are the larger windows and the higher cabin pressure. Those were mandated by the sales staff as they know that anything less would not make the airplane competitive.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
User avatar
VCVSpotter
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:10 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 4:09 pm

N779XW (BOE1) has a test flight today, BFI-BFI 9:30AM - 2:30PM

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
marcelh
Posts: 958
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 4:17 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
There has been a lot of unsubstantiated doom and gloom spewed about the 777-9. I'd like to offer a counter hypothesis:

The bird will over perform. It will surpass expectations. The reason the 778 is being downplayed is because the 779 will have the capacity and the range to do what the 778 can do. It's still too early for Boeing to know this but my guess is they're slowly learning it now.


But Qantas went for the A350 when they made their choice for project Sunrise. If the 779 is so close to the 778, why not go for the B779? Should have made a lot of sense, not only because the plane performs very well, but it's also the natural A380 successor and - as a result of that - an all Boeing WB fleet with just one pilot pool. IMHO the long term benefits are there, why didn't Qantas take it?
 
jeffrey0032j
Posts: 770
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:11 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 4:18 pm

marcelh wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
There has been a lot of unsubstantiated doom and gloom spewed about the 777-9. I'd like to offer a counter hypothesis:

The bird will over perform. It will surpass expectations. The reason the 778 is being downplayed is because the 779 will have the capacity and the range to do what the 778 can do. It's still too early for Boeing to know this but my guess is they're slowly learning it now.


But Qantas went for the A350 when they made their choice for project Sunrise. If the 779 is so close to the 778, why not go for the B779? Should have made a lot of sense, not only because the plane performs very well, but it's also the natural A380 successor and - as a result of that - an all Boeing WB fleet with just one pilot pool. IMHO the long term benefits are there, why didn't Qantas take it?

I'm afraid even the 350 may not be purchased in the end. This is a new landscape.
 
marcelh
Posts: 958
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 4:28 pm

jeffrey0032j wrote:
marcelh wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
There has been a lot of unsubstantiated doom and gloom spewed about the 777-9. I'd like to offer a counter hypothesis:

The bird will over perform. It will surpass expectations. The reason the 778 is being downplayed is because the 779 will have the capacity and the range to do what the 778 can do. It's still too early for Boeing to know this but my guess is they're slowly learning it now.


But Qantas went for the A350 when they made their choice for project Sunrise. If the 779 is so close to the 778, why not go for the B779? Should have made a lot of sense, not only because the plane performs very well, but it's also the natural A380 successor and - as a result of that - an all Boeing WB fleet with just one pilot pool. IMHO the long term benefits are there, why didn't Qantas take it?

I'm afraid even the 350 may not be purchased in the end. This is a new landscape.


True, but that's not the point I want to make. It's about the "claim" that the B779 will overperform substatially. if that's true, Qantas should have chosen this plane instead of the A35K last year. But let's go back on topic. Boeing needs a succes, so bring this plane ASAP to EIS
Last edited by marcelh on Thu May 07, 2020 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
GEUltraFan9XGTF
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:31 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 4:28 pm

marcelh wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
There has been a lot of unsubstantiated doom and gloom spewed about the 777-9. I'd like to offer a counter hypothesis:

The bird will over perform. It will surpass expectations. The reason the 778 is being downplayed is because the 779 will have the capacity and the range to do what the 778 can do. It's still too early for Boeing to know this but my guess is they're slowly learning it now.


But Qantas went for the A350 when they made their choice for project Sunrise. If the 779 is so close to the 778, why not go for the B779? Should have made a lot of sense, not only because the plane performs very well, but it's also the natural A380 successor and - as a result of that - an all Boeing WB fleet with just one pilot pool. IMHO the long term benefits are there, why didn't Qantas take it?


Qantas made its decision well before the first flight, well before any hard data. Maybe it's like LH selecting the A346 over the B77W all over again.
© 2020. All statements are my own. The use of my statements, including by journalists, YouTube vloggers like "DJ's Aviation", etc. without my written consent is strictly prohibited.
 
Spetsnaz55
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:38 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 4:58 pm

Heading west!!
 
Opus99
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 6:04 pm

I think this indefinite freeze on project sunrise gives Boeing another chance. And I’m sure they’ll shoot their shot again. But for it to work. The economics on the 778 have to stack up SERIOUSLY. And the 779 has to set that precedent of being a super aircraft.
 
User avatar
VCVSpotter
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:10 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 6:45 pm

N779XX (BOE2) has a test flight today, BFI-BFI 12:00PM - 4:00PM. Note that it will be traveling along the coastline, and enter Oregon and California airspace for the first time.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE2
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 19320
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 6:49 pm

VCVSpotter wrote:
777-9 N779XW returning to base at BFI after hitting a top speed of 446kts (513mph) today at 12:36AM UTC (5:36PM Pacific). Fast girl ;) :spin:

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n779xw

The old 777 had a maximum speed of 511kts, so more testing required. :spin:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777

But a good flight.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
Opus99
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 6:55 pm

It’s even at 30,000 ft
 
StTim
Posts: 3653
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:39 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 6:55 pm

Those who think that Boeing will know (or have reasonable insights on) the final performance of the 779 frame are I think living in a fantasy land. We all know that up tp now that the 779 hasn't flown particularly high or fast (well the last couple of days have seen some change in that) and the performance will be found when they fly long sectors at high weight with all the performance tools optimised (load alleviation etc).

Now I am not saying it won't beat spec but there is a long way to go. Yes they will have some raw figures on weights, sfc of the engine etc but we are still a long way from anything to give them a comfortable feel.


BTW - this is what I was told several times during the A350 test campaign when asking if they would have a view on real world performance.
 
morrisond
Posts: 2645
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:22 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 8:00 pm

StTim wrote:
Those who think that Boeing will know (or have reasonable insights on) the final performance of the 779 frame are I think living in a fantasy land. We all know that up tp now that the 779 hasn't flown particularly high or fast (well the last couple of days have seen some change in that) and the performance will be found when they fly long sectors at high weight with all the performance tools optimised (load alleviation etc).

Now I am not saying it won't beat spec but there is a long way to go. Yes they will have some raw figures on weights, sfc of the engine etc but we are still a long way from anything to give them a comfortable feel.


BTW - this is what I was told several times during the A350 test campaign when asking if they would have a view on real world performance.


I assume this was directed at me. The ability to predict performance is getting better and better all the time. CFD is getting better all the time.

They have tested the engines at Speed and altitude on the 747 Test bed so they have a pretty good idea of the SFC.

What they can't know for certain is how the Aero will perform at full scale at speed and altitude.

However given that the wing shape and tail is heavily influenced by 787 they should know within a few percent. Knowing the OEW weight (which they did before first flight) further helps.

They should also have had a pretty good idea on how air would come off the nose as well.

If they aren't within say 2-3% they need to go back and look at their models. If it falls short by a few % then they have real issues.

What the OEW was supposed to be and how close they were to that either above or below will probably have a much greater influence on performance than their CFD models being slightly off.

The A350 was a completely new concept based on nothing before so it would have been a lot harder to figure out.
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 2089
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2020

Thu May 07, 2020 8:43 pm

A properly done model should alway err on the conservative side, for if it doesn't the deviations can compound badly where actual performance falls below predicted. What made the 77W such a success was that basically every element performed better than predicted. This can be seen in the orders. There were two big order surges with the 77W, one shortly after EIS, the other about 4 years later. Early operators of the 77W soon exercised options and added to orders, this peaked in 2011 where 194 were ordered. This better than expected result put the nails into the coffin for the A380 and B748i.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos