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aristoenigma
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:23 am

747classic wrote:
firstview wrote:
Saudi Royal flight may be taking LN1446 after all. AMAC Aerospace in BSL recently signed a contract for the 747's completion with a picture of the aircraft in the announcement: https://www.amacaerospace.com/euroairpo ... ch-2020-2/



In AMAC's announcment the following is stated : "The cabin of the BBJ 747-8 will be re-configured and the whole interior will be brought to the latest level."

However L/N1446 has no cabin installed and is stored in "green status" at Basel.

So, probably another 747-8/BBJ must be involved.

The only AMAC converted 747-8/BBJ has been L/N 1449, A7-HBJ , Qatar Amiri flight


Realizing now that LN1446 is still in green status I wonder how different it is from say LN1435 in specs and performance. I suppose Boeng is using LN1435 purely as a testbed but is there a big difference from the unmodified BJ ordered by the Saudis (pre-cabin modification) and an undelivered 748i like LN1435?
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:09 am

aristoenigma wrote:

Realizing now that LN1446 is still in green status I wonder how different it is from say LN1435 in specs and performance. I suppose Boeng is using LN1435 purely as a testbed but is there a big difference from the unmodified BJ ordered by the Saudis (pre-cabin modification) and an undelivered 748i like LN1435?


L/N 1435 is an airline configured 747-8I and built according master drawings R8001, the first built from the reserved basic number block R8001-R8400
L/N 1446 is a BBJ configured 747-8I and built according master drawing R8404, the fourth built from the reserved basic number block R8401-R8409

In the BBJ variant some minor structural changes are made in the basic aircraft structure during assembly to ease later installation of optional BBJ specific items, eg. aerolift and aeroloft, without expensive post production structural modifications.

An airline configuration 747-8i can be modified to accept BBJ specific items , but the structural modification costs will be added to the total bill.
The other way around (BBJ to Airline configuration) is also possible.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
aristoenigma
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:18 pm

Is it a fair prediction that L/N 1446 might never get that final cabin modification the prior Saudi royalty had envisioned over ten years ago? Will this plane stay stored until scrapped? Could a post-COVID world open it up to being converted to a usable passenger airliner by any of the current users of 747-8is?
 
IWMBH
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:24 pm

aristoenigma wrote:
Is it a fair prediction that L/N 1446 might never get that final cabin modification the prior Saudi royalty had envisioned over ten years ago? Will this plane stay stored until scrapped? Could a post-COVID world open it up to being converted to a usable passenger airliner by any of the current users of 747-8is?


That is very unlikely. My guess would be the USAF to use it as a replacement to any of their current 747-200's.
But if there will ever be an 747-8 freighter conversion it would be a likely candidate. I think freighter airlines will be happy to have it.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:30 am

I would be surprised to see a 747-8 freighter conversion program given the very small feedstock and the fact that by the time airlines really need 744F replacements the airline 748s will have pretty high hours.

As for what will happen to 1435 and 1446, I'd guess that 1435 will be scrapped some time after finishing its duties for the VC-25B program, while 1446 will go to the next dictator who decides he wants a 747-8 toy. I doubt the USAF will take one-off, pre-built, oddball aircraft as E-2 replacements or anything like that. And the airline customers have had many, many opportunities to take both white tails and new frames at rock-bottom prices, and have refused or backed off plans every single time. We're not used to Boeing aircraft sitting around and never being flown, but we're also not used to them being as uncompetitive as the 747-8I is compared to big twins.
 
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RobK
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:21 am

seabosdca wrote:
I'd guess that 1435 will be scrapped some time after finishing its duties for the VC-25B program


Can we perhaps stop regurgitating this as fact?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1437939&p=22252351&hilit=n828ba#p22252351
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:09 pm

N622UP made her first (B1) flight KPAE-KGEG-KMWH-KPAE with callsign BOE686 at July 20th 2020, see : https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N62 ... /KPAE/KGEG

L/N 1560, N622UP, KPAE, July 20th 2020
Image

Original uploaded by Jennifer Schuld at twitter, see : https://twitter.com/JenSchuld/status/12 ... 9516427265
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
aristoenigma
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:03 pm

747classic wrote:
Some history about the Qatari Royal family Al Thani and the purchase of 747-8I/BBJ aircraft.

In total three (3) 747-8BBJ were originally ordered by the Al Thani family. One aircraft was later purchased (UAE ntu)

The first two (L/N 1439 and 1449) were ordered in 2006 by the ruling Al Thani members
L/N 1449 was privatly used by Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Than after he resigned from the thrown in favour of his son Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani in 2013..
The third (L/N 1468) was ordered by the former Emir of Qatar (father of Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Than) and stationed at BOH (UK)
The fourth (L/N 1495) is a UAE NTU and bought in 2017 by Qatar and is presently still in BSL for outfitting.

Most probably L/N 1449 will be disposed of with the introduction of L/N 1495.


L/N 1439 - 747-8KB , RC002, serial number 37544, BBJ customer Qatar Amiri Flight , test registration N5022E, registration A7-HHE, white livery, F/F Jan-30-2012, Delivery date Feb-27-2012, Delivery flight (A7HHE-CYVR-KIAB) date Feb-28-2012. Greenpoint Technologies Aeroloft cabin has been installed at Boeing Global Transport & Executive Systems (GTES) in Wichita, Kansas, Ferry flight to Hamburg at Aug- 29-2012, Cabin outfitting at Lufthansa Technik (LHT) in Hamburg, Germany. Aircraft spotted outside hangar at December 30 2014. First test flight after VIP interior completion at May 07 2015. Further functional test flights at June 10, October 15, November 10 and 26. Customer acceptance flight (QAF403)at December 10 2015. Ferried to Victorville (QAF013) for paint at December 17 2015. Official LHT delivery was at January 07 2016. Returned to HAM at January 14 2015, Delivery flight HAM-DOH January 26 2016. AMAC Aerospace in BSL signed a contract in March 2020 for maintenance and further upgrades : https://www.amacaerospace.com/euroairpo ... ch-2020-2/ During this next maintenance visit also a Northrop Grumman AN/AAQ-24(V)N Large Aircraft Infrared Countermeasure (LAIRCM) systems will be installed.

L/N 1449 - 747-8KB , RC005, serial number 37075, BBJ customer Qatar Amiri flight, leased from Lewiston Investments, A7-HJA , selcal CE-JM, white livery, F/F March-31-2012, Delivery and delivery flight (A7HJA-CYVR-KIAB) date April -25-2012. Greenpoint Technologies Aeroloft cabin installation completed at Boeing Global Transport & Executive Systems (GTES), Wichita, Kansas. Ferry flight to Basel-Mulhouse(LFSB) at November 09-2012. Cabin outfitting performed by completion center AMAC at Basel, Switzerland, First test flight with completed interior at Dec. 19 2014.(still white livery). Ferried from BSL towards FCO for paint at May 22 2015. Returned to BSL at July 01 2015 in Full livery. Re-registered A7-HBJ (user initials : Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani ) at July 9 2015. Customer delivery flight BSL-DOH(Doha) July 13 2015. Aircraft for sale by AMAC at July 07th 2020, see : https://www.amacaerospace.com/unique-ai ... iguration/

L/N 1468 - 747-8ZV, RC008,serial number 42096, Lessor : Worldwide Aircraft Holding Company – Bermuda, Customer : Former Emir of Qatar (Sheikh Khalifa bin Hamad bin Abdullah bin Jassim bin Muhammed Al Thani), registration VQ-BSK (VQ-B = Bermuda / SK = Sheikh Khalifa), full “old style Qatar “livery, Roll-out November 08-2012, F/F December 13 2012, Delivery date December 20-2012, Delivery flight (VQBSK-CYVR-KSKF) date December 21-2012. VVIP cabin outfitting by Greenpoint Technologies at San Antonio (TX). At the same location also an elevator system (Aerolift) and an Aeroloft modification kit has been installed. First test flight performed at October 22 2014. Delivery after cabin outfitting : December 24 2014. Delivery flight Lackland AFB, San Antonio (KSKF) -Bournemouth ( EGHH) January 15 2015. The owner passed away at 23 October 2016 at the age of 84. Ferried February 9th 2018 from BOH – HAM. Aircraft was put up for sale by AMAC. New owner - Turkish Air Force (Türk Hava Kuvvetleri). Ferried to Istanbul for service by Turkish Government at September 11th 2018. Re-painted and modified at Turkish Technic's HABOM maintenance, repair and overhaul centre in Istanbul. New registration will be TC-TRK.

L/N 1495 - 747-8Z5, RC009, serial number 37501, ordered for the UAE Presidential Flight, Boeing operator identification code : ABD , N974BA, future registration A6-PFB , owner : Boeing Company, white livery, roll out date January 21 2014, F/F February 19 2014, Ferried to Pinal Airpark (KMZJ) at March 12 2014, order was cancelled in September 2016. Ferried to Paine Field at May 17 2017. New customer : Qatar Amiri Flight (Boeing operator identification code : QAF) , N-registration was cancelled at September 12th 2017, A7-HHF, Delivery flight (KPAE-LFSB) date December 10th 2017. VIP Cabin outfitting by AMAC, Basel, scheduled for Q2 2020. During outfitting also a Northrop Grumman AN/AAQ-24(V)N Large Aircraft Infrared Countermeasure (LAIRCM) systems will be installed. LAIRCM detects incoming infrared homing missiles and uses an intense laser to dazzle their seekers, throwing them off course. See : https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/96 ... ort-06289/


Thanks for this 747classic.

The Qatari Emirs have certainly been 747-8-centric.in their VIP choices

Sheikh Khalifa bin Hamad Al Thani, Emir of Qatar (1972–1995) LN 1468 later donated to Turkey by current Emir after grandfather Emir passed
Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani, Emir of Qatar (1995–2013) LN 1449 used by Emir's cousin and Prime Minister Hamad bin Jassim and now for sale
Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani, Emir of Qatar (2013–present) LN 1439 in Qatar Airways livery and LAIRCM equipped
LN 1495 modifications currently underway in Basel Switzerland and to get LAIRCM

Looks as if last two planes will be official Royal transport going forward. Wow what is the guess for LN 1449 asking price?
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:28 am

To add to this : Buying the UAE ordered, but "not taken up" L/N 1495 in the last months of 2017 can be seen as a political move after the Qatar diplomatic crisis developed.
This Qatar diplomatic crisis began in June 2017, when Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Egypt, the Maldives, Mauritania, Senegal, Djibouti, the Comoros, Jordan, the Tobruk-based Libyan government, and the Hadi-led Yemeni government severed diplomatic relations with Qatar and banned Qatar-registered airplanes and ships from utilising their airspace and sea routes along with Saudi Arabia blocking the only land crossing.

But It seems that after the third (L/N 1495) is almost ready after VIP cabin outfitting completion, three Qatar Government 747-8/BBJ aircraft are a little bit much, even for Qatar standards and L/N 1449 is up for sale.

Note : Also the "gift"of L/N 1468 can be seen as a "thank you " for the support of Turkey in above mentioned diplomatic crises.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
aristoenigma
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:14 pm

Guessing it will be a tough sell for L/N 1449 in a shrinking 747 world. Maybe another gift or deep discount in the offing?
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:25 am

N622UP was ferried to Portland (KPDX) for paint at July 24th 2020 with callsign BOE686, see : https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N62 ... /KPAE/KPDX

N622UP arriving at Portland, July 24 th 2020.



Image

Aircraft data : L/N 1560, 747-8F, RC686, UPS, serial number 65784, N622UP , roll-out date July 06th 2020, F/F July 20th, ferried to Portland for paint at July 24th 2020
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
UAEflyer
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:16 am

747classic wrote:
N622UP was ferried to Portland (KPDX) for paint at July 24th 2020 with callsign BOE686, see : https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N62 ... /KPAE/KPDX

N622UP arriving at Portland, July 24 th 2020.



Image

Aircraft data : L/N 1560, 747-8F, RC686, UPS, serial number 65784, N622UP , roll-out date July 06th 2020, F/F July 20th, ferried to Portland for paint at July 24th 2020

is it the last one on the order list ?
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:57 am

UAEflyer wrote:
747classic wrote:

Aircraft data : L/N 1560, 747-8F, RC686, UPS, serial number 65784, N622UP , roll-out date July 06th 2020, F/F July 20th, ferried to Portland for paint at July 24th 2020

is it the last one on the order list ?


No, at his moment 16 UPS 747-8F aircraft are delivered out of a total of 28 ordered (14 +13 +1)

Note : Future N624UP, ex Volga-Dnepr has already been assembled as L/N 1558, but sold to UPS and is presently being modified to UPS standard, but has not been delivered.
To complicate things further : the change of ownership of L/N 1558 has been listed as a new UPS order at May 04th 2020 and at the same date the second order of 14 aircraft (February 01th 2018) has been reduced with one aircraft to 13.
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:33 pm

L/N 1495 ,Qatar Amiri Flight B747-8Z5(BBJ), A7-HHF was ferried from Basel (BSL) toward Shannon (SNN) at July 24th 2020 after VIP cabin outfitting for paint at the IAC facility.

See A7-HHF entering the IAC paint hangar : https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/50152462991/
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VCVSpotter
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:58 pm

747classic wrote:
L/N 1495 ,Qatar Amiri Flight B747-8Z5(BBJ), A7-HHF was ferried from Basel (BSL) toward Shannon (SNN) at July 24th 2020 after VIP cabin outfitting for paint at the IAC facility.

See A7-HHF entering the IAC paint hangar : https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/50152462991/


Any idea what livery she'll have? Will she carry a 'Qatar airlines' livery like her sister A7-HHE or is there a 'cool' VIP livery planned, or is it just a 'wait and see'?
Right now my best bet is that she'll have a matching 'Qatar airlines' type livery as A7-HHF and A7-HHE will be the official Qatar ruling family VIP jets, although that's just my guess.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

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Momo1435
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:16 pm

Boeing has today confirmed that the 747 program will be terminated in 2022.

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/news-relea ... tem=130713

"- While our 767 and 747 rates remain unchanged, in light of the current market dynamics and outlook, we’ll complete production of the iconic 747 in 2022. Our customer commitment does not end at delivery, and we’ll continue to support 747 operations and sustainment well into the future."
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:16 pm

Speculation time!

If indeed only UPS orders are legit, there are only 12 747-8f left to be delivered to customers.
Of these, two are already built, and delivery is imminent.
With production rate of one plane every two months, this production run could be complete in early 2022.

We all believed that VD will take theirs, and that shipsets exist.
Will there be white-tails? Or is UPS order "it"?
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:10 pm

My money is on one of two things happening:

UPS takes all that Boeing has parts on hand to make
UPS takes what they have on order and Boeing just stores the other parts for spares or scraps them.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:20 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
If indeed only UPS orders are legit, there are only 12 747-8f left to be delivered to customers.


Boeing’s order page shows 747 backlog as 12 (including ASC 606 deductions).

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries
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scbriml
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:22 pm

Stitch wrote:
My money is on one of two things happening:

UPS takes all that Boeing has parts on hand to make
UPS takes what they have on order and Boeing just stores the other parts for spares or scraps them.


The latter would seem to be the case, otherwise the “VDA shuffle” looks like a pretty pointless exercise, IMHO.
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:19 pm

scbriml wrote:
The latter would seem to be the case, otherwise the “VDA shuffle” looks like a pretty pointless exercise, IMHO.


Not from a future CAPEX view, IMO.

It also gives UPS the ability to re-examine their needs (and the global general freight market) towards the end of their current contract and decide if additional purchases are warranted.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:36 am

scbriml wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
If indeed only UPS orders are legit, there are only 12 747-8f left to be delivered to customers.


Boeing’s order page shows 747 backlog as 12 (including ASC 606 deductions).

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries


Gross orders, prior to adjustments, are still at 15:
http://active.boeing.com/commercial/ord ... iew+Report

Volga-Dnepr still has 3 orders outstanding.

Of course, ASC 606 deductions demonstrate if Boeing believes those orders have a chance to be fulfilled (no).
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Slug71
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:36 am

Phosphorus wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
If indeed only UPS orders are legit, there are only 12 747-8f left to be delivered to customers.


Boeing’s order page shows 747 backlog as 12 (including ASC 606 deductions).

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries


Gross orders, prior to adjustments, are still at 15:
http://active.boeing.com/commercial/ord ... iew+Report

Volga-Dnepr still has 3 orders outstanding.

Of course, ASC 606 deductions demonstrate if Boeing believes those orders have a chance to be fulfilled (no).


Those 3 may not have been firmed. I recall reading on this forum that the V-D orders were firmed one by one as needed/wanted.
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:26 am

IMHO UPS is evaluating the situation and can wait some time to watch the latest developments in the cargo market and order in a later stage at least 3 more 747-8F aircraft, when needed.

Seen the sharply increasing (structural) maintenance cost of 747-400 aircraft, passing the thresholds of 120.00 flight hours and/or 20,000 cycles, UPS may decide to replace the 747-400's with the highest flight hour / cycle count in late 2022.

Prime candidates would be :
The two odd ball 744BCF aircraft in the UPS fleet. These aircraft have increased tear and wear, due the fact that some structural aircraft parts could not be changed by dedicated freighter parts, with increased strength, during the P-F conversion.
N578UP, non standard SUD configuration, less volume and payload, no nose cargo door, 109.251 hrs / 18.127 cycles at 6/22/2020
N579UP, non standard SUD configuration, less volume and payload, no nose cargo door, 102.874 hrs / 17.280 cylcles at 7/10/2019

N581UP, 747-4R7F with highest flight hour / cycle count : 114.490 hrs / 19085 cycles at 5/18/2020

But, UPS could also decide to purchase the two Saudi 747-8F aircraft, currently for sale.
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dcs921
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:35 am

747classic wrote:
IMHO UPS is evaluating the situation and can wait some time to watch the latest developments in the cargo market and order in a later stage at least 3 more 747-8F aircraft, when needed.

Seen the sharply increasing (structural) maintenance cost of 747-400 aircraft, passing the thresholds of 120.00 flight hours and/or 20,000 cycles, UPS may decide to replace the 747-400's with the highest flight hour / cycle count in late 2022.

Prime candidates would be :
The two odd ball 744BCF aircraft in the UPS fleet. These aircraft have increased tear and wear, due the fact that some structural aircraft parts could not be changed by dedicated freighter parts, with increased strength, during the P-F conversion.
N578UP, non standard SUD configuration, less volume and payload, no nose cargo door, 109.251 hrs / 18.127 cycles at 6/22/2020
N579UP, non standard SUD configuration, less volume and payload, no nose cargo door, 102.874 hrs / 17.280 cylcles at 7/10/2019

N581UP, 747-4R7F with highest flight hour / cycle count : 114.490 hrs / 19085 cycles at 5/18/2020


N583UP, 747-4R7F has the highest cycle and flight hour count in their fleet: 121,334 hours / 20,381 cycles as of 07/15/2020.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:52 am

Phosphorus wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
If indeed only UPS orders are legit, there are only 12 747-8f left to be delivered to customers.


Boeing’s order page shows 747 backlog as 12 (including ASC 606 deductions).

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries


Gross orders, prior to adjustments, are still at 15:
http://active.boeing.com/commercial/ord ... iew+Report

Volga-Dnepr still has 3 orders outstanding.

Of course, ASC 606 deductions demonstrate if Boeing believes those orders have a chance to be fulfilled (no).

The ASC 606 changes mean that it's unlikely that these firm orders will ever be delivered. But they are only listed as these ASC 606 changes as they have not formally been cancelled yet by the customer. Until they are fully cancelled by Volga-Dnepr they are not removed from the backlog. This does also means that it's still possible that Volga-Dnepr and Boeing come to a renewed deal for these orders where these will still be delivered. Then the ASC 606 changes will be reduced to zero again without a full cancellation. If this is still actually possible will now also depend on the number of remaining available production slots before the line is closed.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:34 pm

Slug71 wrote:
Those 3 may not have been firmed. I recall reading on this forum that the V-D orders were firmed one by one as needed/wanted.


The five 747-8 were the only firm frames in Volga-Dnepr's "freighter bonanza" at Farnborough 2018. The 29 777 freighters they also announced were all commitments.

https://www.flightglobal.com/orders-and ... 09.article
 
aristoenigma
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:34 pm

seabosdca wrote:
I would be surprised to see a 747-8 freighter conversion program given the very small feedstock and the fact that by the time airlines really need 744F replacements the airline 748s will have pretty high hours.

As for what will happen to 1435 and 1446, I'd guess that 1435 will be scrapped some time after finishing its duties for the VC-25B program, while 1446 will go to the next dictator who decides he wants a 747-8 toy. I doubt the USAF will take one-off, pre-built, oddball aircraft as E-2 replacements or anything like that. And the airline customers have had many, many opportunities to take both white tails and new frames at rock-bottom prices, and have refused or backed off plans every single time. We're not used to Boeing aircraft sitting around and never being flown, but we're also not used to them being as uncompetitive as the 747-8I is compared to big twins.


Is there a regular maintenance protocol to keep 1446 up to date so that a sale to another owner is not delayed? Over the 8 years being stored and all is that regular maintenance expensive?.
 
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VCVSpotter
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:53 pm

aristoenigma wrote:
seabosdca wrote:
I would be surprised to see a 747-8 freighter conversion program given the very small feedstock and the fact that by the time airlines really need 744F replacements the airline 748s will have pretty high hours.

As for what will happen to 1435 and 1446, I'd guess that 1435 will be scrapped some time after finishing its duties for the VC-25B program, while 1446 will go to the next dictator who decides he wants a 747-8 toy. I doubt the USAF will take one-off, pre-built, oddball aircraft as E-2 replacements or anything like that. And the airline customers have had many, many opportunities to take both white tails and new frames at rock-bottom prices, and have refused or backed off plans every single time. We're not used to Boeing aircraft sitting around and never being flown, but we're also not used to them being as uncompetitive as the 747-8I is compared to big twins.


Is there a regular maintenance protocol to keep 1446 up to date so that a sale to another owner is not delayed? Over the 8 years being stored and all is that regular maintenance expensive?.


Every time I go to visit VCV, 1446 is just wrapped up (engines, cockpit, landing gear, etc) and just sitting on a remote, concrete pad away from the 'busy' area where recent arrivals are kept, and aircraft are prepped to fly out. It doesn't look like they're doing much (from what I've seen, along with what I've seen through various social media outlets). If they thought it would be sitting for a while, wouldn't they just wrap everything up (as they did), and just let it sit....? Not too much of an expert on aircraft storage maintenance processes, but for some aircraft at VCV it definitely looks like that was the case for a long time, then if they left, first they were towed to a hangar and had all of their maintenance checks completed. But there wasn't a regular maintenance regiment for most aircraft in long-term storage.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9 • Farewell KLM 747-400M
 
aristoenigma
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:09 am

VCVSpotter wrote:
aristoenigma wrote:
seabosdca wrote:
I would be surprised to see a 747-8 freighter conversion program given the very small feedstock and the fact that by the time airlines really need 744F replacements the airline 748s will have pretty high hours.

As for what will happen to 1435 and 1446, I'd guess that 1435 will be scrapped some time after finishing its duties for the VC-25B program, while 1446 will go to the next dictator who decides he wants a 747-8 toy. I doubt the USAF will take one-off, pre-built, oddball aircraft as E-2 replacements or anything like that. And the airline customers have had many, many opportunities to take both white tails and new frames at rock-bottom prices, and have refused or backed off plans every single time. We're not used to Boeing aircraft sitting around and never being flown, but we're also not used to them being as uncompetitive as the 747-8I is compared to big twins.


Is there a regular maintenance protocol to keep 1446 up to date so that a sale to another owner is not delayed? Over the 8 years being stored and all is that regular maintenance expensive?.


Every time I go to visit VCV, 1446 is just wrapped up (engines, cockpit, landing gear, etc) and just sitting on a remote, concrete pad away from the 'busy' area where recent arrivals are kept, and aircraft are prepped to fly out. It doesn't look like they're doing much (from what I've seen, along with what I've seen through various social media outlets). If they thought it would be sitting for a while, wouldn't they just wrap everything up (as they did), and just let it sit....? Not too much of an expert on aircraft storage maintenance processes, but for some aircraft at VCV it definitely looks like that was the case for a long time, then if they left, first they were towed to a hangar and had all of their maintenance checks completed. But there wasn't a regular maintenance regiment for most aircraft in long-term storage.

Hi VCV do you mean 1435 rather than 1446? 1435 is at VCV but I thought 1446 was at Basel.
 
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RobK
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:09 am

:confused:

1446 is at Basel.
 
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VCVSpotter
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:48 am

aristoenigma wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:
aristoenigma wrote:

Is there a regular maintenance protocol to keep 1446 up to date so that a sale to another owner is not delayed? Over the 8 years being stored and all is that regular maintenance expensive?.


Every time I go to visit VCV, 1446 is just wrapped up (engines, cockpit, landing gear, etc) and just sitting on a remote, concrete pad away from the 'busy' area where recent arrivals are kept, and aircraft are prepped to fly out. It doesn't look like they're doing much (from what I've seen, along with what I've seen through various social media outlets). If they thought it would be sitting for a while, wouldn't they just wrap everything up (as they did), and just let it sit....? Not too much of an expert on aircraft storage maintenance processes, but for some aircraft at VCV it definitely looks like that was the case for a long time, then if they left, first they were towed to a hangar and had all of their maintenance checks completed. But there wasn't a regular maintenance regiment for most aircraft in long-term storage.

Hi VCV do you mean 1435 rather than 1446? 1435 is at VCV but I thought 1446 was at Basel.


Sorry, I did mean 1435. When I read long-term storage I immediately assumed the one at VCV (as I’ve seen that one the most lol). Sorry for the confusion, but even with storage at BSL, I would think the same general rules would apply: don’t do anything too costly until you actually have a customer who wants it flown out.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9 • Farewell KLM 747-400M
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:42 am

AFAIK L/N 1446 is stored in a hangar at BSL and at regular times it seems to be moved (sometimes outside) for preserving the tires.
Its stil in it's basic "green" configuration, without cabin outfitting and ownership indication changed a few times between a Saudi entity and the Bank of Utah.
As owner is listed since November 03 2019 : BANK OF UTAH TRUSTEE, before that date the following was stated about the aircraft : “This aircraft's registration status may not be suitable for operation” , applicant : AL-SHIHRI ALI OWAIDAH, 29 AL-ZAWAWI ST, AL BASATEEN DISTRICT , JEDDAH, Saudi Arabia in July-August 2018.

So, the aircraft probably needs (post storage, AD's etc. ) maintenance to restore it to operational status.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:09 am

Here is a link for a 2017 brochure of 747-8JA, N458BJ, with exterior and interior pictures : https://srammram.com/wp-content/uploads ... 7-8JA1.pdf

It would be a relative cheap (structural), partically zero hour, spare part source, incl 4 spare engines, for the two AF1 planes !
Seen the excellent relations between POTUS and the Saudi Government this would be an easy deal :roll:
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
aristoenigma
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:09 am

747classic wrote:
Here is a link for a 2017 brochure of 747-8JA, N458BJ, with exterior and interior pictures : https://srammram.com/wp-content/uploads ... 7-8JA1.pdf

It would be a relative cheap (structural), partically zero hour, spare part source, incl 4 spare engines, for the two AF1 planes !
Seen the excellent relations between POTUS and the Saudi Government this would be an easy deal :roll:

Thanks for posting the brochure on 1446 747classic.I now understand how bare a green airliner really looks.Also makes me doubt there will ever be another fancy oil/gas economy inspired 748 BJ made. It would be a fitting spare for AF1.
 
airnorth
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:14 am

aristoenigma wrote:
747classic wrote:
Here is a link for a 2017 brochure of 747-8JA, N458BJ, with exterior and interior pictures : https://srammram.com/wp-content/uploads ... 7-8JA1.pdf

It would be a relative cheap (structural), partically zero hour, spare part source, incl 4 spare engines, for the two AF1 planes !
Seen the excellent relations between POTUS and the Saudi Government this would be an easy deal :roll:

Thanks for posting the brochure on 1446 747classic.I now understand how bare a green airliner really looks.Also makes me doubt there will ever be another fancy oil/gas economy inspired 748 BJ made. It would be a fitting spare for AF1.


Page 4 first picture, where was this taken? There appears to be an Air Canada CRJ attached to the underside of the wing, lol!
 
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RobK
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:17 pm

airnorth wrote:
aristoenigma wrote:
747classic wrote:
Here is a link for a 2017 brochure of 747-8JA, N458BJ, with exterior and interior pictures : https://srammram.com/wp-content/uploads ... 7-8JA1.pdf

It would be a relative cheap (structural), partically zero hour, spare part source, incl 4 spare engines, for the two AF1 planes !
Seen the excellent relations between POTUS and the Saudi Government this would be an easy deal :roll:

Thanks for posting the brochure on 1446 747classic.I now understand how bare a green airliner really looks.Also makes me doubt there will ever be another fancy oil/gas economy inspired 748 BJ made. It would be a fitting spare for AF1.


Page 4 first picture, where was this taken? There appears to be an Air Canada CRJ attached to the underside of the wing, lol!


Vancouver on 9 July 2012.
 
aristoenigma
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:41 pm

747classic wrote:
To add to this : Buying the UAE ordered, but "not taken up" L/N 1495 in the last months of 2017 can be seen as a political move after the Qatar diplomatic crisis developed.
This Qatar diplomatic crisis began in June 2017, when Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Egypt, the Maldives, Mauritania, Senegal, Djibouti, the Comoros, Jordan, the Tobruk-based Libyan government, and the Hadi-led Yemeni government severed diplomatic relations with Qatar and banned Qatar-registered airplanes and ships from utilising their airspace and sea routes along with Saudi Arabia blocking the only land crossing.

But It seems that after the third (L/N 1495) is almost ready after VIP cabin outfitting completion, three Qatar Government 747-8/BBJ aircraft are a little bit much, even for Qatar standards and L/N 1449 is up for sale.

Note : Also the "gift"of L/N 1468 can be seen as a "thank you " for the support of Turkey in above mentioned diplomatic crises.


Does the diplomatic crisis make it virtually impossible to find buyers for L/N 1449. I am thinking many if not all qualified buyers are in the countries that currently are on the other side of the embargo. For instance if Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, the wealthiest private citizen in Saudi Arabia, wanted to upgrade from his very fancy 744 VIP aircraft could he? Or is the embargo a blocker?
 
airnorth
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:10 pm

RobK wrote:
airnorth wrote:
aristoenigma wrote:
Thanks for posting the brochure on 1446 747classic.I now understand how bare a green airliner really looks.Also makes me doubt there will ever be another fancy oil/gas economy inspired 748 BJ made. It would be a fitting spare for AF1.


Page 4 first picture, where was this taken? There appears to be an Air Canada CRJ attached to the underside of the wing, lol!


Vancouver on 9 July 2012.

Thanks for that. Maybe I do remember that....was the plane delivered to YVR, for tax reasons or something like that?
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:36 am

N622UP returned to Paine Field (KPAE) from Portland (KPDX), via Moses Lake (KMWH) after paint, callsign BOE686,
See : https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE ... /KPDX/KMWH
And : https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE ... /KMWH/KPAE

N622UP, KPAE, August 03th 2020
Image



Aircraft data : L/N 1560, 747-8F, RC686, UPS #17, serial number 65784, N622UP , roll-out date July 06th 2020, F/F July 20th, ferried to Portland for paint at July 24th. Returned August 03th 2020.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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RobK
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:03 pm

airnorth wrote:
RobK wrote:
airnorth wrote:

Page 4 first picture, where was this taken? There appears to be an Air Canada CRJ attached to the underside of the wing, lol!


Vancouver on 9 July 2012.

Thanks for that. Maybe I do remember that....was the plane delivered to YVR, for tax reasons or something like that?


I don't know for sure, but it's generally believed so.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:13 pm

Triumph earnings call yesterday, reporting "Q1 fiscal 2021" (apparently, what's Q2 2020 for the rest of us):
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/edited-t ... 46491.html
Key points, as far as 747-8 program is concerned:
"Aerospace Structures also remains on track to complete production on the G280 and 747 programs this year." (not sure, if they mean current calendar year, or their fiscal year, that still has three quarters to run)
"We have only 8 shipsets of 747 fuselage panels remaining to deliver, and we're on track to exit all remaining cash-consuming Structures programs this fiscal year."
"we're pleased that Boeing kept our largest program, the 767, at the current build rate of 3 a month and same with 747, we're running that out. We want to finish that program."

The line in the sand has been drawn, on the Triumph side. Do we have visibility, how many frames does it make, altogether, that could still be built?
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:30 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
Do we have visibility, how many frames does it make, altogether, that could still be built?


At Farnborough 2018, Boeing placed an order for a total of 20 sets and they never added to it. Assuming Boeing never reduced that, then in theory they have a handful of "extras", but it is also possible they lowered that order from 20 and the 8 coming are what they need to finish the UPS frames not yet in production.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:51 pm

Stitch wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
Do we have visibility, how many frames does it make, altogether, that could still be built?


At Farnborough 2018, Boeing placed an order for a total of 20 sets and they never added to it. Assuming Boeing never reduced that, then in theory they have a handful of "extras", but it is also possible they lowered that order from 20 and the 8 coming are what they need to finish the UPS frames not yet in production.


Farnborough 2018 events have been superseded since.
Facts on the ground -- 8 shipsets to deliver on Triumph side.
12 orders still outstanding from UPS, and 3 from Volga-Dnepr (I know, questionable, I know), as per Boeing, on June 30:
http://active.boeing.com/commercial/ord ... iew+Report

LN1560 built, not delivered yet as of today
LN1558 built, not delivered yet as of today

So, ten more frames to build for UPS as of July 1. Eight more shipsets to be delivered by Triumph, as of July 31. I would guess LN1561 and LN1562 are in various stages of assembly as of now. That balances books for UPS order.
Any other Triumph-sourced shipsets would be "spare".
Is the math correct?
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
 
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VCVSpotter
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:00 pm

VCVSpotter wrote:
747classic wrote:
L/N 1495 ,Qatar Amiri Flight B747-8Z5(BBJ), A7-HHF was ferried from Basel (BSL) toward Shannon (SNN) at July 24th 2020 after VIP cabin outfitting for paint at the IAC facility.

See A7-HHF entering the IAC paint hangar : https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/50152462991/


Any idea what livery she'll have? Will she carry a 'Qatar airlines' livery like her sister A7-HHE or is there a 'cool' VIP livery planned, or is it just a 'wait and see'?
Right now my best bet is that she'll have a matching 'Qatar airlines' type livery as A7-HHF and A7-HHE will be the official Qatar ruling family VIP jets, although that's just my guess.


According to skyliner, Qatar Amiri Flight 747-8BBJ A7-HHF ferried SNN-BSL today after repaint. I was not able to find a picture though, but if someone could either link it or put it in the thread that'd be greatly appreciated. :)

https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=3
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9 • Farewell KLM 747-400M
 
EduardoL
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:38 pm

VCVSpotter wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:
747classic wrote:
L/N 1495 ,Qatar Amiri Flight B747-8Z5(BBJ), A7-HHF was ferried from Basel (BSL) toward Shannon (SNN) at July 24th 2020 after VIP cabin outfitting for paint at the IAC facility.

See A7-HHF entering the IAC paint hangar : https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/50152462991/


Any idea what livery she'll have? Will she carry a 'Qatar airlines' livery like her sister A7-HHE or is there a 'cool' VIP livery planned, or is it just a 'wait and see'?
Right now my best bet is that she'll have a matching 'Qatar airlines' type livery as A7-HHF and A7-HHE will be the official Qatar ruling family VIP jets, although that's just my guess.


According to skyliner, Qatar Amiri Flight 747-8BBJ A7-HHF ferried SNN-BSL today after repaint. I was not able to find a picture though, but if someone could either link it or put it in the thread that'd be greatly appreciated. :)

https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=3




https://flic.kr/p/2jzW797
 
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VCVSpotter
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:30 pm

EduardoL wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:

Any idea what livery she'll have? Will she carry a 'Qatar airlines' livery like her sister A7-HHE or is there a 'cool' VIP livery planned, or is it just a 'wait and see'?
Right now my best bet is that she'll have a matching 'Qatar airlines' type livery as A7-HHF and A7-HHE will be the official Qatar ruling family VIP jets, although that's just my guess.


According to skyliner, Qatar Amiri Flight 747-8BBJ A7-HHF ferried SNN-BSL today after repaint. I was not able to find a picture though, but if someone could either link it or put it in the thread that'd be greatly appreciated. :)

https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=3




https://flic.kr/p/2jzW797


Thank you! Painted in the same scheme as A7-HHE, as I expected.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9 • Farewell KLM 747-400M
 
aristoenigma
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:32 pm

EduardoL wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:

Any idea what livery she'll have? Will she carry a 'Qatar airlines' livery like her sister A7-HHE or is there a 'cool' VIP livery planned, or is it just a 'wait and see'?
Right now my best bet is that she'll have a matching 'Qatar airlines' type livery as A7-HHF and A7-HHE will be the official Qatar ruling family VIP jets, although that's just my guess.


According to skyliner, Qatar Amiri Flight 747-8BBJ A7-HHF ferried SNN-BSL today after repaint. I was not able to find a picture though, but if someone could either link it or put it in the thread that'd be greatly appreciated. :)

https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=3




https://flic.kr/p/2jzW797

Very nice clean simplicity. I wonder if the sale of A7-HBJ will proceed more quickly now that A7-HHF joins A7-HHE in full royal duty.
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:18 am

A7-HHF, SNN, August 25th 2020
Image

Original uploaded by Leah O Carrol at flickr, see : https://www.flickr.com/photos/150734144 ... 269165592/
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 747 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:56 am

N623UP has been assigned to a 747-8F with serial number 65783, see : https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquir ... rtxt=623UP

Aircraft data : L/N 1561, 747-8F, RC687, UPS, serial number 65783, N623UP
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.

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