747classic wrote:

firstview wrote:

Saudi Royal flight may be taking LN1446 after all. AMAC Aerospace in BSL recently signed a contract for the 747's completion with a picture of the aircraft in the announcement: https://www.amacaerospace.com/euroairpo ... ch-2020-2/

In AMAC's announcment the following is stated : "The cabin of the BBJ 747-8 will be re-configured and the whole interior will be brought to the latest level."

However L/N1446 has no cabin installed and is stored in "green status" at Basel.

So, probably another 747-8/BBJ must be involved.

The only AMAC converted 747-8/BBJ has been L/N 1449, A7-HBJ , Qatar Amiri flight

aristoenigma wrote:

Realizing now that LN1446 is still in green status I wonder how different it is from say LN1435 in specs and performance. I suppose Boeng is using LN1435 purely as a testbed but is there a big difference from the unmodified BJ ordered by the Saudis (pre-cabin modification) and an undelivered 748i like LN1435?

aristoenigma wrote:

Is it a fair prediction that L/N 1446 might never get that final cabin modification the prior Saudi royalty had envisioned over ten years ago? Will this plane stay stored until scrapped? Could a post-COVID world open it up to being converted to a usable passenger airliner by any of the current users of 747-8is?

seabosdca wrote:

I'd guess that 1435 will be scrapped some time after finishing its duties for the VC-25B program

747classic wrote:

Some history about the Qatari Royal family Al Thani and the purchase of 747-8I/BBJ aircraft.

In total three (3) 747-8BBJ were originally ordered by the Al Thani family. One aircraft was later purchased (UAE ntu)

The first two (L/N 1439 and 1449) were ordered in 2006 by the ruling Al Thani members
L/N 1449 was privatly used by Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Than after he resigned from the thrown in favour of his son Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani in 2013..
The third (L/N 1468) was ordered by the former Emir of Qatar (father of Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Than) and stationed at BOH (UK)
The fourth (L/N 1495) is a UAE NTU and bought in 2017 by Qatar and is presently still in BSL for outfitting.

Most probably L/N 1449 will be disposed of with the introduction of L/N 1495.


L/N 1439 - 747-8KB , RC002, serial number 37544, BBJ customer Qatar Amiri Flight , test registration N5022E, registration A7-HHE, white livery, F/F Jan-30-2012, Delivery date Feb-27-2012, Delivery flight (A7HHE-CYVR-KIAB) date Feb-28-2012. Greenpoint Technologies Aeroloft cabin has been installed at Boeing Global Transport & Executive Systems (GTES) in Wichita, Kansas, Ferry flight to Hamburg at Aug- 29-2012, Cabin outfitting at Lufthansa Technik (LHT) in Hamburg, Germany. Aircraft spotted outside hangar at December 30 2014. First test flight after VIP interior completion at May 07 2015. Further functional test flights at June 10, October 15, November 10 and 26. Customer acceptance flight (QAF403)at December 10 2015. Ferried to Victorville (QAF013) for paint at December 17 2015. Official LHT delivery was at January 07 2016. Returned to HAM at January 14 2015, Delivery flight HAM-DOH January 26 2016. AMAC Aerospace in BSL signed a contract in March 2020 for maintenance and further upgrades : https://www.amacaerospace.com/euroairpo ... ch-2020-2/ During this next maintenance visit also a Northrop Grumman AN/AAQ-24(V)N Large Aircraft Infrared Countermeasure (LAIRCM) systems will be installed.

L/N 1449 - 747-8KB , RC005, serial number 37075, BBJ customer Qatar Amiri flight, leased from Lewiston Investments, A7-HJA , selcal CE-JM, white livery, F/F March-31-2012, Delivery and delivery flight (A7HJA-CYVR-KIAB) date April -25-2012. Greenpoint Technologies Aeroloft cabin installation completed at Boeing Global Transport & Executive Systems (GTES), Wichita, Kansas. Ferry flight to Basel-Mulhouse(LFSB) at November 09-2012. Cabin outfitting performed by completion center AMAC at Basel, Switzerland, First test flight with completed interior at Dec. 19 2014.(still white livery). Ferried from BSL towards FCO for paint at May 22 2015. Returned to BSL at July 01 2015 in Full livery. Re-registered A7-HBJ (user initials : Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani ) at July 9 2015. Customer delivery flight BSL-DOH(Doha) July 13 2015. Aircraft for sale by AMAC at July 07th 2020, see : https://www.amacaerospace.com/unique-ai ... iguration/

L/N 1468 - 747-8ZV, RC008,serial number 42096, Lessor : Worldwide Aircraft Holding Company – Bermuda, Customer : Former Emir of Qatar (Sheikh Khalifa bin Hamad bin Abdullah bin Jassim bin Muhammed Al Thani), registration VQ-BSK (VQ-B = Bermuda / SK = Sheikh Khalifa), full “old style Qatar “livery, Roll-out November 08-2012, F/F December 13 2012, Delivery date December 20-2012, Delivery flight (VQBSK-CYVR-KSKF) date December 21-2012. VVIP cabin outfitting by Greenpoint Technologies at San Antonio (TX). At the same location also an elevator system (Aerolift) and an Aeroloft modification kit has been installed. First test flight performed at October 22 2014. Delivery after cabin outfitting : December 24 2014. Delivery flight Lackland AFB, San Antonio (KSKF) -Bournemouth ( EGHH) January 15 2015. The owner passed away at 23 October 2016 at the age of 84. Ferried February 9th 2018 from BOH – HAM. Aircraft was put up for sale by AMAC. New owner - Turkish Air Force (Türk Hava Kuvvetleri). Ferried to Istanbul for service by Turkish Government at September 11th 2018. Re-painted and modified at Turkish Technic's HABOM maintenance, repair and overhaul centre in Istanbul. New registration will be TC-TRK.

L/N 1495 - 747-8Z5, RC009, serial number 37501, ordered for the UAE Presidential Flight, Boeing operator identification code : ABD , N974BA, future registration A6-PFB , owner : Boeing Company, white livery, roll out date January 21 2014, F/F February 19 2014, Ferried to Pinal Airpark (KMZJ) at March 12 2014, order was cancelled in September 2016. Ferried to Paine Field at May 17 2017. New customer : Qatar Amiri Flight (Boeing operator identification code : QAF) , N-registration was cancelled at September 12th 2017, A7-HHF, Delivery flight (KPAE-LFSB) date December 10th 2017. VIP Cabin outfitting by AMAC, Basel, scheduled for Q2 2020. During outfitting also a Northrop Grumman AN/AAQ-24(V)N Large Aircraft Infrared Countermeasure (LAIRCM) systems will be installed. LAIRCM detects incoming infrared homing missiles and uses an intense laser to dazzle their seekers, throwing them off course. See : https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/96 ... ort-06289/

747classic wrote:

N622UP was ferried to Portland (KPDX) for paint at July 24th 2020 with callsign BOE686, see : https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N62 ... /KPAE/KPDX

N622UP arriving at Portland, July 24 th 2020.

Aircraft data : L/N 1560, 747-8F, RC686, UPS, serial number 65784, N622UP , roll-out date July 06th 2020, F/F July 20th, ferried to Portland for paint at July 24th 2020

UAEflyer wrote:

747classic wrote:

Aircraft data : L/N 1560, 747-8F, RC686, UPS, serial number 65784, N622UP , roll-out date July 06th 2020, F/F July 20th, ferried to Portland for paint at July 24th 2020

is it the last one on the order list ?

747classic wrote:

L/N 1495 ,Qatar Amiri Flight B747-8Z5(BBJ), A7-HHF was ferried from Basel (BSL) toward Shannon (SNN) at July 24th 2020 after VIP cabin outfitting for paint at the IAC facility.

See A7-HHF entering the IAC paint hangar : https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/50152462991/

Phosphorus wrote:

If indeed only UPS orders are legit, there are only 12 747-8f left to be delivered to customers.

Stitch wrote:

My money is on one of two things happening:

UPS takes all that Boeing has parts on hand to make
UPS takes what they have on order and Boeing just stores the other parts for spares or scraps them.

scbriml wrote:

The latter would seem to be the case, otherwise the “VDA shuffle” looks like a pretty pointless exercise, IMHO.

scbriml wrote:

Phosphorus wrote:

If indeed only UPS orders are legit, there are only 12 747-8f left to be delivered to customers.

Boeing’s order page shows 747 backlog as 12 (including ASC 606 deductions).

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries

Phosphorus wrote:

scbriml wrote:

Phosphorus wrote:

If indeed only UPS orders are legit, there are only 12 747-8f left to be delivered to customers.

Boeing’s order page shows 747 backlog as 12 (including ASC 606 deductions).

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries

Gross orders, prior to adjustments, are still at 15:
http://active.boeing.com/commercial/ord ... iew+Report

Volga-Dnepr still has 3 orders outstanding.

Of course, ASC 606 deductions demonstrate if Boeing believes those orders have a chance to be fulfilled (no).

747classic wrote:

IMHO UPS is evaluating the situation and can wait some time to watch the latest developments in the cargo market and order in a later stage at least 3 more 747-8F aircraft, when needed.

Seen the sharply increasing (structural) maintenance cost of 747-400 aircraft, passing the thresholds of 120.00 flight hours and/or 20,000 cycles, UPS may decide to replace the 747-400's with the highest flight hour / cycle count in late 2022.

Prime candidates would be :
The two odd ball 744BCF aircraft in the UPS fleet. These aircraft have increased tear and wear, due the fact that some structural aircraft parts could not be changed by dedicated freighter parts, with increased strength, during the P-F conversion.
N578UP, non standard SUD configuration, less volume and payload, no nose cargo door, 109.251 hrs / 18.127 cycles at 6/22/2020
N579UP, non standard SUD configuration, less volume and payload, no nose cargo door, 102.874 hrs / 17.280 cylcles at 7/10/2019

N581UP, 747-4R7F with highest flight hour / cycle count : 114.490 hrs / 19085 cycles at 5/18/2020

Phosphorus wrote:

scbriml wrote:

Phosphorus wrote:

If indeed only UPS orders are legit, there are only 12 747-8f left to be delivered to customers.

Boeing’s order page shows 747 backlog as 12 (including ASC 606 deductions).

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries

Gross orders, prior to adjustments, are still at 15:
http://active.boeing.com/commercial/ord ... iew+Report

Volga-Dnepr still has 3 orders outstanding.

Of course, ASC 606 deductions demonstrate if Boeing believes those orders have a chance to be fulfilled (no).

Slug71 wrote:

Those 3 may not have been firmed. I recall reading on this forum that the V-D orders were firmed one by one as needed/wanted.

seabosdca wrote:

I would be surprised to see a 747-8 freighter conversion program given the very small feedstock and the fact that by the time airlines really need 744F replacements the airline 748s will have pretty high hours.

As for what will happen to 1435 and 1446, I'd guess that 1435 will be scrapped some time after finishing its duties for the VC-25B program, while 1446 will go to the next dictator who decides he wants a 747-8 toy. I doubt the USAF will take one-off, pre-built, oddball aircraft as E-2 replacements or anything like that. And the airline customers have had many, many opportunities to take both white tails and new frames at rock-bottom prices, and have refused or backed off plans every single time. We're not used to Boeing aircraft sitting around and never being flown, but we're also not used to them being as uncompetitive as the 747-8I is compared to big twins.

aristoenigma wrote:

seabosdca wrote:

I would be surprised to see a 747-8 freighter conversion program given the very small feedstock and the fact that by the time airlines really need 744F replacements the airline 748s will have pretty high hours.

As for what will happen to 1435 and 1446, I'd guess that 1435 will be scrapped some time after finishing its duties for the VC-25B program, while 1446 will go to the next dictator who decides he wants a 747-8 toy. I doubt the USAF will take one-off, pre-built, oddball aircraft as E-2 replacements or anything like that. And the airline customers have had many, many opportunities to take both white tails and new frames at rock-bottom prices, and have refused or backed off plans every single time. We're not used to Boeing aircraft sitting around and never being flown, but we're also not used to them being as uncompetitive as the 747-8I is compared to big twins.

Is there a regular maintenance protocol to keep 1446 up to date so that a sale to another owner is not delayed? Over the 8 years being stored and all is that regular maintenance expensive?.

VCVSpotter wrote:

aristoenigma wrote:

seabosdca wrote:

I would be surprised to see a 747-8 freighter conversion program given the very small feedstock and the fact that by the time airlines really need 744F replacements the airline 748s will have pretty high hours.

As for what will happen to 1435 and 1446, I'd guess that 1435 will be scrapped some time after finishing its duties for the VC-25B program, while 1446 will go to the next dictator who decides he wants a 747-8 toy. I doubt the USAF will take one-off, pre-built, oddball aircraft as E-2 replacements or anything like that. And the airline customers have had many, many opportunities to take both white tails and new frames at rock-bottom prices, and have refused or backed off plans every single time. We're not used to Boeing aircraft sitting around and never being flown, but we're also not used to them being as uncompetitive as the 747-8I is compared to big twins.

Is there a regular maintenance protocol to keep 1446 up to date so that a sale to another owner is not delayed? Over the 8 years being stored and all is that regular maintenance expensive?.

Every time I go to visit VCV, 1446 is just wrapped up (engines, cockpit, landing gear, etc) and just sitting on a remote, concrete pad away from the 'busy' area where recent arrivals are kept, and aircraft are prepped to fly out. It doesn't look like they're doing much (from what I've seen, along with what I've seen through various social media outlets). If they thought it would be sitting for a while, wouldn't they just wrap everything up (as they did), and just let it sit....? Not too much of an expert on aircraft storage maintenance processes, but for some aircraft at VCV it definitely looks like that was the case for a long time, then if they left, first they were towed to a hangar and had all of their maintenance checks completed. But there wasn't a regular maintenance regiment for most aircraft in long-term storage.

aristoenigma wrote:

VCVSpotter wrote:

aristoenigma wrote:

Is there a regular maintenance protocol to keep 1446 up to date so that a sale to another owner is not delayed? Over the 8 years being stored and all is that regular maintenance expensive?.

Every time I go to visit VCV, 1446 is just wrapped up (engines, cockpit, landing gear, etc) and just sitting on a remote, concrete pad away from the 'busy' area where recent arrivals are kept, and aircraft are prepped to fly out. It doesn't look like they're doing much (from what I've seen, along with what I've seen through various social media outlets). If they thought it would be sitting for a while, wouldn't they just wrap everything up (as they did), and just let it sit....? Not too much of an expert on aircraft storage maintenance processes, but for some aircraft at VCV it definitely looks like that was the case for a long time, then if they left, first they were towed to a hangar and had all of their maintenance checks completed. But there wasn't a regular maintenance regiment for most aircraft in long-term storage.

Hi VCV do you mean 1435 rather than 1446? 1435 is at VCV but I thought 1446 was at Basel.

747classic wrote:

Here is a link for a 2017 brochure of 747-8JA, N458BJ, with exterior and interior pictures : https://srammram.com/wp-content/uploads ... 7-8JA1.pdf

It would be a relative cheap (structural), partically zero hour, spare part source, incl 4 spare engines, for the two AF1 planes !
Seen the excellent relations between POTUS and the Saudi Government this would be an easy deal

aristoenigma wrote:

747classic wrote:

Here is a link for a 2017 brochure of 747-8JA, N458BJ, with exterior and interior pictures : https://srammram.com/wp-content/uploads ... 7-8JA1.pdf

It would be a relative cheap (structural), partically zero hour, spare part source, incl 4 spare engines, for the two AF1 planes !
Seen the excellent relations between POTUS and the Saudi Government this would be an easy deal

Thanks for posting the brochure on 1446 747classic.I now understand how bare a green airliner really looks.Also makes me doubt there will ever be another fancy oil/gas economy inspired 748 BJ made. It would be a fitting spare for AF1.

airnorth wrote:

aristoenigma wrote:

747classic wrote:

Here is a link for a 2017 brochure of 747-8JA, N458BJ, with exterior and interior pictures : https://srammram.com/wp-content/uploads ... 7-8JA1.pdf

It would be a relative cheap (structural), partically zero hour, spare part source, incl 4 spare engines, for the two AF1 planes !
Seen the excellent relations between POTUS and the Saudi Government this would be an easy deal

Thanks for posting the brochure on 1446 747classic.I now understand how bare a green airliner really looks.Also makes me doubt there will ever be another fancy oil/gas economy inspired 748 BJ made. It would be a fitting spare for AF1.

Page 4 first picture, where was this taken? There appears to be an Air Canada CRJ attached to the underside of the wing, lol!

747classic wrote:

To add to this : Buying the UAE ordered, but "not taken up" L/N 1495 in the last months of 2017 can be seen as a political move after the Qatar diplomatic crisis developed.
This Qatar diplomatic crisis began in June 2017, when Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Egypt, the Maldives, Mauritania, Senegal, Djibouti, the Comoros, Jordan, the Tobruk-based Libyan government, and the Hadi-led Yemeni government severed diplomatic relations with Qatar and banned Qatar-registered airplanes and ships from utilising their airspace and sea routes along with Saudi Arabia blocking the only land crossing.

But It seems that after the third (L/N 1495) is almost ready after VIP cabin outfitting completion, three Qatar Government 747-8/BBJ aircraft are a little bit much, even for Qatar standards and L/N 1449 is up for sale.

Note : Also the "gift"of L/N 1468 can be seen as a "thank you " for the support of Turkey in above mentioned diplomatic crises.

RobK wrote:

airnorth wrote:

aristoenigma wrote:

Thanks for posting the brochure on 1446 747classic.I now understand how bare a green airliner really looks.Also makes me doubt there will ever be another fancy oil/gas economy inspired 748 BJ made. It would be a fitting spare for AF1.

Page 4 first picture, where was this taken? There appears to be an Air Canada CRJ attached to the underside of the wing, lol!

Vancouver on 9 July 2012.

airnorth wrote:

RobK wrote:

airnorth wrote:

Page 4 first picture, where was this taken? There appears to be an Air Canada CRJ attached to the underside of the wing, lol!

Vancouver on 9 July 2012.

Thanks for that. Maybe I do remember that....was the plane delivered to YVR, for tax reasons or something like that?

Phosphorus wrote:

Do we have visibility, how many frames does it make, altogether, that could still be built?

Stitch wrote:

Phosphorus wrote:

Do we have visibility, how many frames does it make, altogether, that could still be built?

At Farnborough 2018, Boeing placed an order for a total of 20 sets and they never added to it. Assuming Boeing never reduced that, then in theory they have a handful of "extras", but it is also possible they lowered that order from 20 and the 8 coming are what they need to finish the UPS frames not yet in production.

VCVSpotter wrote:

747classic wrote:

L/N 1495 ,Qatar Amiri Flight B747-8Z5(BBJ), A7-HHF was ferried from Basel (BSL) toward Shannon (SNN) at July 24th 2020 after VIP cabin outfitting for paint at the IAC facility.

See A7-HHF entering the IAC paint hangar : https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/50152462991/

Any idea what livery she'll have? Will she carry a 'Qatar airlines' livery like her sister A7-HHE or is there a 'cool' VIP livery planned, or is it just a 'wait and see'?
Right now my best bet is that she'll have a matching 'Qatar airlines' type livery as A7-HHF and A7-HHE will be the official Qatar ruling family VIP jets, although that's just my guess.

VCVSpotter wrote:

VCVSpotter wrote:

747classic wrote:

L/N 1495 ,Qatar Amiri Flight B747-8Z5(BBJ), A7-HHF was ferried from Basel (BSL) toward Shannon (SNN) at July 24th 2020 after VIP cabin outfitting for paint at the IAC facility.

See A7-HHF entering the IAC paint hangar : https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/50152462991/

Any idea what livery she'll have? Will she carry a 'Qatar airlines' livery like her sister A7-HHE or is there a 'cool' VIP livery planned, or is it just a 'wait and see'?
Right now my best bet is that she'll have a matching 'Qatar airlines' type livery as A7-HHF and A7-HHE will be the official Qatar ruling family VIP jets, although that's just my guess.

According to skyliner, Qatar Amiri Flight 747-8BBJ A7-HHF ferried SNN-BSL today after repaint. I was not able to find a picture though, but if someone could either link it or put it in the thread that'd be greatly appreciated.

https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=3

EduardoL wrote:

VCVSpotter wrote:

VCVSpotter wrote:

Any idea what livery she'll have? Will she carry a 'Qatar airlines' livery like her sister A7-HHE or is there a 'cool' VIP livery planned, or is it just a 'wait and see'?
Right now my best bet is that she'll have a matching 'Qatar airlines' type livery as A7-HHF and A7-HHE will be the official Qatar ruling family VIP jets, although that's just my guess.

According to skyliner, Qatar Amiri Flight 747-8BBJ A7-HHF ferried SNN-BSL today after repaint. I was not able to find a picture though, but if someone could either link it or put it in the thread that'd be greatly appreciated.

https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=3

https://flic.kr/p/2jzW797

EduardoL wrote:

VCVSpotter wrote:

VCVSpotter wrote:

Any idea what livery she'll have? Will she carry a 'Qatar airlines' livery like her sister A7-HHE or is there a 'cool' VIP livery planned, or is it just a 'wait and see'?
Right now my best bet is that she'll have a matching 'Qatar airlines' type livery as A7-HHF and A7-HHE will be the official Qatar ruling family VIP jets, although that's just my guess.

According to skyliner, Qatar Amiri Flight 747-8BBJ A7-HHF ferried SNN-BSL today after repaint. I was not able to find a picture though, but if someone could either link it or put it in the thread that'd be greatly appreciated.

https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=3

https://flic.kr/p/2jzW797