Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
 
beechnut
Posts: 933
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:27 am

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:57 pm

DALCE wrote:
A380MSN004 wrote:
If an airline would order couple of A220-300s right now and willing to receive them asap. How long would be the wait for this airline to get the first frames delivered?

Does some airlines are delaying their slots?

Many thanks.


It depends who you ask, but there are some delivered NTU frames parked in MST, so it would cost you a few days to get them up and running, shrinkwrap them with your favorite logo's and you're good to go :D


Not so quick, you still have to train crews and mx staff, and put the maintenance and handling infrastructure in place. Unless you plan to wet-lease, but that’s usually a short-term measure.
 
A380MSN004
Posts: 738
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:07 am

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:27 pm

T4thH wrote:
Polot wrote:
ADent wrote:
How long does it take to remove the Delta logos? There were 2 completed and test flown A220-300s a couple of months ago (1 Delta, 1 AirBaltic). Should be more now - how many do you want?

Just because deliveries are delayed doesn’t mean Airbus is allowed to hand those aircraft over to another customer. The customer needs to give an indication that they will never take those frames or Airbus has to negotiate with the customer. Can’t sell them to someone else and be in a situation where come November the original customer wants the plane and whoops now Airbus is the one who has to delay delivery because they no longer have a plane for them.


Since last week, Delta is taking up planes from Airbus again. They have taken up two A320 family members. The last have had been taken up in Mar-2020.
After prolonged time parked (only performing regular some engine runs and taxi checks), 4x A220-100 and 2x A220-300 have recently started to perform test flights again. Only one A220-100 is still parked. So we can expect some deliveries in next days and weeks.
Edit: A220-100 50051 and 50053 are already handed over, so they shall perform the delivery flight soon.

If someone orders a A220 and want to get it ASAP, as seen in last years for some customers, you can get the A220 in around 12 to 18 month after finalization of the contract.
Additional there are 6x A220-300 parked by lessors in the Netherlands and waiting to be picked up. They were original scheduled for RedWings, but have not been taken up.
3x was planned to lease them to Green Africa in summer; then the aviation market got COVID.
3x were planned to be leased to Air Madagascar in Q1 2020, then they got in financial trouble.

So it seem 3x A220-300 can be leased in narrow time.


Thanks for your feedback. Do you know to what lessors those frame belongs?
 
T4thH
Posts: 1076
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:09 pm

A380MSN004 wrote:
T4thH wrote:
Polot wrote:
Just because deliveries are delayed doesn’t mean Airbus is allowed to hand those aircraft over to another customer. The customer needs to give an indication that they will never take those frames or Airbus has to negotiate with the customer. Can’t sell them to someone else and be in a situation where come November the original customer wants the plane and whoops now Airbus is the one who has to delay delivery because they no longer have a plane for them.


Since last week, Delta is taking up planes from Airbus again. They have taken up two A320 family members. The last have had been taken up in Mar-2020.
After prolonged time parked (only performing regular some engine runs and taxi checks), 4x A220-100 and 2x A220-300 have recently started to perform test flights again. Only one A220-100 is still parked. So we can expect some deliveries in next days and weeks.
Edit: A220-100 50051 and 50053 are already handed over, so they shall perform the delivery flight soon.

If someone orders a A220 and want to get it ASAP, as seen in last years for some customers, you can get the A220 in around 12 to 18 month after finalization of the contract.
Additional there are 6x A220-300 parked by lessors in the Netherlands and waiting to be picked up. They were original scheduled for RedWings, but have not been taken up.
3x was planned to lease them to Green Africa in summer; then the aviation market got COVID.
3x were planned to be leased to Air Madagascar in Q1 2020, then they got in financial trouble.

So it seem 3x A220-300 can be leased in narrow time.


Thanks for your feedback. Do you know to what lessors those frame belongs?


Yes. First I have a useful link for you.
https://www.abcdlist.nl/cseries/cseries.html
Together with this one:
https://aibfamily.flights/
You can easily follow the deliveries of Airbus planes (all Airbus planes in AIB and also A220, A350, A330 and SSJ, MH90 e.g. in ABCD list).

These are the A220-300 production numbers 55056, 55057, 55065, 55066, 55072 and 55073. Lessor: STLC/GTLK "State transport Leasing Company", this is a Russian state owned lessor, but located in Ireland. They are the lessor of primary Russian airlines, but also easyJet.
 
777Mech
Posts: 992
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:20 pm

Fixinthe757 wrote:
Theres actually a decent number of Delta planes going nowhere and in the short term storage configuration (both 321s and 220s) at the BFM FAL. Looks like Delta not taking them right now


They will be on DL's property really soon.
 
bspc
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:07 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:48 pm

I have heard the A220's for Delta are supposedly already handed over, just haven't flown out.
 
T4thH
Posts: 1076
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:58 pm

bspc wrote:
I have heard the A220's for Delta are supposedly already handed over, just haven't flown out.

If correct, then the A220-100 50051 and 50053 have been handed over. But source seems to be A380 Boards?
https://a380.boards.net/thread/2333/delta-air-lines-a220-100s?page=42
I do not know, from where they have the news and this was already stated on 27-Aug-2020. So why they are still parked? And the question is, what is handed over? Regular this shall be called "delivered by contract" and not "handed over".
All Delta A220 are on duty again, so when the two A220-100 have been "delivered on contract", why Delta has not flown them out?
 
777Mech
Posts: 992
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:28 am

T4thH wrote:
bspc wrote:
I have heard the A220's for Delta are supposedly already handed over, just haven't flown out.

If correct, then the A220-100 50051 and 50053 have been handed over. But source seems to be A380 Boards?
https://a380.boards.net/thread/2333/delta-air-lines-a220-100s?page=42
I do not know, from where they have the news and this was already stated on 27-Aug-2020. So why they are still parked? And the question is, what is handed over? Regular this shall be called "delivered by contract" and not "handed over".
All Delta A220 are on duty again, so when the two A220-100 have been "delivered on contract", why Delta has not flown them out?


I doubt they're needed. It's easier to just keep them parked and taped up at a location where they can be taken care of by Airbus.
 
bspc
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:07 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:24 am

T4thH wrote:
bspc wrote:
I have heard the A220's for Delta are supposedly already handed over, just haven't flown out.

If correct, then the A220-100 50051 and 50053 have been handed over. But source seems to be A380 Boards?
https://a380.boards.net/thread/2333/delta-air-lines-a220-100s?page=42
I do not know, from where they have the news and this was already stated on 27-Aug-2020. So why they are still parked? And the question is, what is handed over? Regular this shall be called "delivered by contract" and not "handed over".
All Delta A220 are on duty again, so when the two A220-100 have been "delivered on contract", why Delta has not flown them out?


Why haven't any of the A350 or A330neo's for Delta not flown out? Why did it take so long for the A321's to fly out? The answer is we don't know. Initially the CEO has always hinted at fact that Delta won't take any Deliveries at the moment. But here we are and test flights for Delta's Aircraft are happening.

and yes, "handed over" probably means "Delivered on Contract". The term is irrelevant, the meaning is still the same.
 
timf
Posts: 568
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 8:36 am

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:53 pm

T4thH wrote:
bspc wrote:
I have heard the A220's for Delta are supposedly already handed over, just haven't flown out.

If correct, then the A220-100 50051 and 50053 have been handed over. But source seems to be A380 Boards?
https://a380.boards.net/thread/2333/delta-air-lines-a220-100s?page=42
I do not know, from where they have the news and this was already stated on 27-Aug-2020. So why they are still parked? And the question is, what is handed over? Regular this shall be called "delivered by contract" and not "handed over".
All Delta A220 are on duty again, so when the two A220-100 have been "delivered on contract", why Delta has not flown them out?

50051 and 50053 show no sign of being registered with the FAA, so I question whether they have actually been delivered to Delta. The registrations always show up in the FAA database before the delivery flight.
 
bspc
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:07 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:46 pm

timf wrote:
T4thH wrote:
bspc wrote:
I have heard the A220's for Delta are supposedly already handed over, just haven't flown out.

If correct, then the A220-100 50051 and 50053 have been handed over. But source seems to be A380 Boards?
https://a380.boards.net/thread/2333/delta-air-lines-a220-100s?page=42
I do not know, from where they have the news and this was already stated on 27-Aug-2020. So why they are still parked? And the question is, what is handed over? Regular this shall be called "delivered by contract" and not "handed over".
All Delta A220 are on duty again, so when the two A220-100 have been "delivered on contract", why Delta has not flown them out?

50051 and 50053 show no sign of being registered with the FAA, so I question whether they have actually been delivered to Delta. The registrations always show up in the FAA database before the delivery flight.


I guess we'll have to wait and see. I wouldn't be so worried about it for now.
 
T4thH
Posts: 1076
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:07 am

According Egypt news in Arab language (so use a translator, implemented in your browser), EgyptAir will take up the 11th A220.-300 end of Sep-2020 and the last of the order of 12 till end of 2020.https://elmahrousanews.com/53140/
 
yyztpa2
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:30 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:48 pm

777Mech wrote:
Fixinthe757 wrote:
Theres actually a decent number of Delta planes going nowhere and in the short term storage configuration (both 321s and 220s) at the BFM FAL. Looks like Delta not taking them right now


They will be on DL's property really soon.

With the discussion in other threads as to how pilot cuts at Delta are impacting pretty hard on the A220 FOs, don't expect these to be in service anytime soon. In fact, speculation is that some of the current fleet will be parked until training can restaff them.
 
777Mech
Posts: 992
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:40 pm

yyztpa2 wrote:
777Mech wrote:
Fixinthe757 wrote:
Theres actually a decent number of Delta planes going nowhere and in the short term storage configuration (both 321s and 220s) at the BFM FAL. Looks like Delta not taking them right now


They will be on DL's property really soon.

With the discussion in other threads as to how pilot cuts at Delta are impacting pretty hard on the A220 FOs, don't expect these to be in service anytime soon. In fact, speculation is that some of the current fleet will be parked until training can restaff them.


Right, but I'm addressing the notion that DL is not taking delivery of these frames. I suspect we won't see the 223s loaded into the schedule until after the 1st of the year, unless they swap the 221 routes they can staff to the 223 and carry more pax.
 
yyztpa2
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:30 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:30 am

777Mech wrote:
yyztpa2 wrote:
777Mech wrote:

They will be on DL's property really soon.

With the discussion in other threads as to how pilot cuts at Delta are impacting pretty hard on the A220 FOs, don't expect these to be in service anytime soon. In fact, speculation is that some of the current fleet will be parked until training can restaff them.


Right, but I'm addressing the notion that DL is not taking delivery of these frames. I suspect we won't see the 223s loaded into the schedule until after the 1st of the year, unless they swap the 221 routes they can staff to the 223 and carry more pax.

If they take them before they need them and carry the capital cost, then Airbus would be pressing them to do that. It's a balancing act between airline and airframer as to who is better prepared to carry the cost.
 
T4thH
Posts: 1076
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:47 am

Some additional information by "Wings over Quebec". Excellent A220 program update.
https://www.lesailesduquebec.com/airbus-a220-mise-a-jour-du-programme/
According to this, till end of 2020, Delta will take up jets only by lease back programs.
Source is in French, use Google translator or others, implemented in your browser.
 
kelval
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:09 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:14 am

Yes.
Also says that the delivery schedule is also messed up because Delta will have at most 50 copilots for A220 after they are done restructuring the pilot numbers ( thanks to the seniority system, the A220 pilots were the last hired). They will have to train older pilots from other platforms inside the company.
This could take up to two monthes.
 
YYZYYT
Posts: 1087
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:41 am

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:14 pm

yyztpa2 wrote:
If they take them before they need them and carry the capital cost, then Airbus would be pressing them to do that. It's a balancing act between airline and airframer as to who is better prepared to carry the cost.


If I were a betting man, I'd guess AB is agreeing to store for reduced (or no?) cost to Delta in exchange for Delta agreeing to close before they are needed.
 
mxaxai
Posts: 1978
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:53 pm

kelval wrote:
Yes.
Also says that the delivery schedule is also messed up because Delta will have at most 50 copilots for A220 after they are done restructuring the pilot numbers ( thanks to the seniority system, the A220 pilots were the last hired). They will have to train older pilots from other platforms inside the company.
This could take up to two monthes.

I know that the seniority system won't be changed anyway but this seems so silly. Fire pilots that are qualified and retrain pilots that aren't, just because one has spent less time with the company. How much does a new type rating cost? 50% of a new hire's first year salary?
 
TonyClifton
Posts: 256
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 3:19 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:09 pm

mxaxai wrote:
kelval wrote:
Yes.
Also says that the delivery schedule is also messed up because Delta will have at most 50 copilots for A220 after they are done restructuring the pilot numbers ( thanks to the seniority system, the A220 pilots were the last hired). They will have to train older pilots from other platforms inside the company.
This could take up to two monthes.

I know that the seniority system won't be changed anyway but this seems so silly. Fire pilots that are qualified and retrain pilots that aren't, just because one has spent less time with the company. How much does a new type rating cost? 50% of a new hire's first year salary?

The alternative is to increase pay on smaller jets to encourage pilots to bid with greater variety. UPS pays the same for every plane in the fleet. When the 717 and A220 are the lowest paid, naturally they’ll fall to more junior folks.
 
VV
Posts: 1858
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:07 pm

No delivery in August.

What's going on? How many aircraft are completed but have not been delivered?
 
T4thH
Posts: 1076
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:11 pm

VV wrote:
No delivery in August.

What's going on? How many aircraft are completed but have not been delivered?

It is Delta and Air Vanatu, these have been completed in Aug-2020 but will not be taken up now/this year. Additional there was a COVID-19 outbreak in Montreal, which has hit the A220 delivery crew at Montreal facility, as members of the Egypt air crew, to pick up two A220 jets end of Jul/begin of Aug-2020 has had members with Covid-19. Only one was flown back, the second is still there.

I have a good news, we will see minimum 3 deliveries in Sep-2020 (as already announced/scheduled).
One or two A220-300 for Air Canada: 55092 has already performed first flight and more unlikely 55093, it will be likely delivered in Oct-2020.
Baltic air has already confirmed, they will take up one A220-300 in Sep-2020 (55086 and two more in 2020, 55094 and 55095), Egypt air will take the 11th in Sep-2020 and the last of the order (no. 12) this year.
I have read it somewhere in last days, but I do not know any more the source. Airbus is now going up with the production numbers in Montreal and they expect to reach the pre-Covid production numbers in Montreal at end of this year, so 4 to 5 per month.

Now completed and parked, waiting to be picked up:
5x A220-100: 55050 to 55055. They have been parked for prolonged time, only performing Taxi checks, seem they are all now performing test flights and two are stated as "handed over to Delta"; source seems to be a well informed member of the A380 boards forum.These two were 55051 and 55053.
One A220-100 will soon start with engine runs and taxi runs, so first flight will be soon: 55056, also Delta.

There are 7x A220-300, who are ready to be picked up or now performing test flights and 2x additional A220-300 who are now short before first engine runs and test flights.

2x Delta: 55070 and 55075 (both produced in Mobile, both completed test flights).
1x Air Baltic, 55086, take up scheduled for Sep-2020.
2x Egypt Air: 55081, would have been already taken up in Jul/Aug-2020, see above. Will be taken up in Sep-2020.55091 has just performed first test flight.
1x Air Vanatu, 55089, will not be taken up this year, as already announced by Air Vanatu. They plan to take the jet in Q1-2021.
1x Air Canada, 55092, performed first test flight, will be taken up in Sep-2020.

55089, Delta (produced in Mobile) and 55093, Air Canada, are completed and will start with first engine runs in next days/weeks.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1802
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:49 pm

T4thH wrote:
2x Delta: 55070 and 55075 (both produced in Mobile, both completed test flights).

Oh the irony... In the FAA Database, MSNs 55070 & 55075 are also 717-200s (respectively, 934AT & 929AT), ex-AirTran aircraft now operating for DL... Ironic since the A220 is more or less replacing the T-tails, line that ended with the 717.
 
sirtoby
Posts: 368
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:56 am

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:49 am

Three A220-100 were (contractually) delivered to DL yesterday (50051, 50053 & 50054).
https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/ ... 1&xso=desc
 
VV
Posts: 1858
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:05 pm

T4thH wrote:
...
Airbus is now going up with the production numbers in Montreal and they expect to reach the pre-Covid production numbers in Montreal at end of this year, so 4 to 5 per month.
...


What is th likelihood Airbus Canada can achieve this level of delivery?

We are now in September.
Any delivery shortfall means a deficit in their 2020 budget.
 
ExMilitaryEng
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 7:12 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:49 pm

Hey VV, ever heard of Covid 19?

Of course this will operationally / financially impact OEMs, including Airbus Canada...
 
yyztpa2
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:30 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:01 am

sirtoby wrote:
Three A220-100 were (contractually) delivered to DL yesterday (50051, 50053 & 50054).
https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/ ... 1&xso=desc

And on the same link, 50052 a day later.
 
VV
Posts: 1858
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:12 am

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
Hey VV, ever heard of Covid 19?

Of course this will operationally / financially impact OEMs, including Airbus Canada...


Didn't Airbus deliver 35 A320 family aircraft in August?
 
bspc
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:07 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:02 pm

VV wrote:
ExMilitaryEng wrote:
Hey VV, ever heard of Covid 19?

Of course this will operationally / financially impact OEMs, including Airbus Canada...


Didn't Airbus deliver 35 A320 family aircraft in August?


We are talking about the A220 Family here. Its not the same, not Aircraft wise or Production wise.
 
ExMilitaryEng
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 7:12 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:04 pm

VV wrote:
We are now in September.
Any delivery shortfall means a deficit in their 2020 budget.

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
Hey VV, ever heard of Covid 19?
Of course this will operationally / financially impact OEMs, including Airbus Canada...

VV wrote:
Didn't Airbus deliver 35 A320 family aircraft in August?

Again, Covid will operationally / financially impact everyone --> in 2020, not only August.
(And including the A320 family)
 
VV
Posts: 1858
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:19 pm

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
VV wrote:
We are now in September.
Any delivery shortfall means a deficit in their 2020 budget.

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
Hey VV, ever heard of Covid 19?
Of course this will operationally / financially impact OEMs, including Airbus Canada...

VV wrote:
Didn't Airbus deliver 35 A320 family aircraft in August?

Again, Covid will operationally / financially impact everyone --> in 2020, not only August.
(And including the A320 family)



The situation is not the same in Airbus and Boeing where they have other businesses, but that 's not the point.

The point is that Airbus delivered 35 A320 family aircraft in August and Airbus Canada delivered ZERO A220 in August.
It means customers do not have the financing for A220 or they do not need the A220 urgently. I find it strange.

In addition an Airbus executive mentioned in January 2020 that Airbus Canada has to fund its operation.To do so, Airbus Canada was allowed to have up to US$ 1.5 billion of debts.

In my opinion, if the A220 delivery target in 2020 is not reached, Airbus Canada will have to increase its debts.
 
ExMilitaryEng
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 7:12 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:37 pm

VV you first said "Any delivery shortfall means a deficit in their 2020 budget" and I then answered you on that - for 2020, not only for August.

Since Covid (not only August), all OEMs are hurting. Indeed, cash preservation is now key for every players.

I don't buy your pretention that A220's customers in particular (versus others) don't have the financing or need less A220 urgently. Since you keep bringing the A320, how has been the fall of A320 / A321 deliveries since April? What are the production cuts that were announced?

I also find bizarre you stick with August, and not since Civid started.
 
T4thH
Posts: 1076
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:05 am

VV wrote:
ExMilitaryEng wrote:
VV wrote:
We are now in September.
Any delivery shortfall means a deficit in their 2020 budget.

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
Hey VV, ever heard of Covid 19?
Of course this will operationally / financially impact OEMs, including Airbus Canada...

VV wrote:
Didn't Airbus deliver 35 A320 family aircraft in August?

Again, Covid will operationally / financially impact everyone --> in 2020, not only August.
(And including the A320 family)



The situation is not the same in Airbus and Boeing where they have other businesses, but that 's not the point.

The point is that Airbus delivered 35 A320 family aircraft in August and Airbus Canada delivered ZERO A220 in August.
It means customers do not have the financing for A220 or they do not need the A220 urgently. I find it strange.

In addition an Airbus executive mentioned in January 2020 that Airbus Canada has to fund its operation.To do so, Airbus Canada was allowed to have up to US$ 1.5 billion of debts.

In my opinion, if the A220 delivery target in 2020 is not reached, Airbus Canada will have to increase its debts.

Please note, I have already stated above, why no planes have been delivered in Aug-2020. In Montreal was a COVID-19 outbreak, it has started at the A220 facility at Montreal, correctly, it started at the A220 delivery center and at members of the A220 delivery crew. The Egypt air crew, to pick up two A220-300 planes end of Jul, begin of Aug-2020, brought the plaque with them, a part of the Egypt air crew (4 of them) has had Covid-19. With the delivery crew sick or in quarantine, they can not deliver planes.

Additional Air Vanatu will not take up the plane, completed in Aug, this year and delta has delayed the take up of planes; all planes completed in Aug, were from Delta or Air Vanatu.

We will have 7 or more deliveries on contract and deliveries this month.
Delta has already taken up 3 planes on contract (3x A220-100, 50061, 50053 and 50054). So these three are now paid but still parked in Montreal. 4x A220 for Delta (2x A220-100 and 2x A220-300) are now performing test flights. 2x additional planes (1x A220-100 and 1x A220-300) for Delta will start engine runs in next time.

4 other planes (A220-300) will be most likely delivered in Sep-2020; already announced, to be taken up in Sep-2020 by airlines: 1x Air Baltic (55086) and 1x Egypt Air (55081), additional 2x A220-300 for Air Canada are performing test flights, 55092 and 55093. Air Canada is regular and in timely manner taking up planes from Montreal production site.

There is only one jet type globally, for whom it has been now official announced, that the production rate will go up to pre-Covid production numbers this year again. This is the A220 production facility in Montreal.


VV, all commercial aircraft producer in the world are harmed by "Covid-19" but of all, it seems, Airbus Canada is most less affected.
 
yyztpa2
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:30 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:51 am

T4thH, see message above that Delta has now taken a 4th with 50052 the dsy after 50051, 50053, and 50054
 
VV
Posts: 1858
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:03 am

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
VV you first said "Any delivery shortfall means a deficit in their 2020 budget" and I then answered you on that - for 2020, not only for August.

Since Covid (not only August), all OEMs are hurting. Indeed, cash preservation is now key for every players.

I don't buy your pretention that A220's customers in particular (versus others) don't have the financing or need less A220 urgently. Since you keep bringing the A320, how has been the fall of A320 / A321 deliveries since April? What are the production cuts that were announced?

I also find bizarre you stick with August, and not since Civid started.


Well, for the first eight months of 2020 Airbus Canada delivered 13 (thirteen) A220.
It is below the expected rate.

It seems airlines don't try to take delivery faster. In August only, Airbus delivered 35 (thirty five) A320 family aircraft.

I do not understand the sense of priority from those numbers.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 20259
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:08 am

T4thH wrote:
We will have 7 or more deliveries on contract and deliveries this month.
Delta has already taken up 3 planes on contract (3x A220-100, 50061, 50053 and 50054). So these three are now paid but still parked in Montreal. 4x A220 for Delta (2x A220-100 and 2x A220-300) are now performing test flights. 2x additional planes (1x A220-100 and 1x A220-300) for Delta will start engine runs in next time.

4 other planes (A220-300) will be most likely delivered in Sep-2020; already announced, to be taken up in Sep-2020 by airlines: 1x Air Baltic (55086) and 1x Egypt Air (55081), additional 2x A220-300 for Air Canada are performing test flights, 55092 and 55093. Air Canada is regular and in timely manner taking up planes from Montreal production site.

There is only one jet type globally, for whom it has been now official announced, that the production rate will go up to pre-Covid production numbers this year again. This is the A220 production facility in Montreal.

Let us focus on the positive. This is incredible news.

So Delta is ready to take a deluge and 3 other airlines accepting deliveries. Right on time for quarter end.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
YYZYYT
Posts: 1087
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:41 am

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:01 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Let us focus on the positive. This is incredible news.

So Delta is ready to take a deluge and 3 other airlines accepting deliveries. Right on time for quarter end.

Lightsaber


Agreed!
Criticizing Airbus Canada (or anyone in this industry) because they are not meeting pre-Covid targets is nothing but trolling.
 
VV
Posts: 1858
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:24 pm

YYZYYT wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Let us focus on the positive. This is incredible news.

So Delta is ready to take a deluge and 3 other airlines accepting deliveries. Right on time for quarter end.

Lightsaber


Agreed!
Criticizing Airbus Canada (or anyone in this industry) because they are not meeting pre-Covid targets is nothing but trolling.


There was no criticism in any of my comments. I am just asking questions because the answer to those questions gives a hint on the priorities set by the stakeholders.

The fact is that Airbus Canada delivered 13 aircraft during the first 8 months of 2020 whereas Airbus delivered 239 A320 family aircraft during the same period. We also know why Boeing delivered very few 737NG aircraft (there is no 737 MAX delivery).

Therefore we can easily conclude the reason is NOT lack of capacity need since Airbus is delivering so many A320.

Is it COVID-19? What's so different in Europe and Canada about it? There are significantly more cases and deaths due to COVID-19 in France, UK and Germany than in Quebec. So, it is very unlikely the reason is COVID-19.

Another explanation could be the financing arrangement, but Airbus is doing all the commercial part of A220. Should we conclude that Airbus is putting more priority on the A320 family than on the A220?

It is not criticism, but as an observer I want to know what the real reasons of this A220 slow delivery are.

If the production rate is not so slow but the delivery is slow then there HAS TO be some inventory. How many aircraft have been completed but have not been delivered??

Finally, the ultimate question is about the cash flow. The 2020 budget was set pror to the COVID crisis in January and at that time the two partners that are the government of Québec and Airbus agreed that Airbus Canada HAS TO fund its operation by its own means. For that reason the two partners agreed to allow Airbus Canada to have debts up to US$ 1.5 billion.

Any shortfall in 2020 delivery relative to the budget will have a direct impact on the decision for the debts. That's the real question you want to know. Will there be more debts to raise? How much will Airbus Canada be allowed to raise extra debts and so on.

In my opinion, the pre-COVID budget has to be adjusted. It is not a criticism, it is trying to understand something that is obvious but is not yet clarified by the two partners as yet.
 
bspc
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:07 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:46 pm

Fair enough. I'm sure there is a bit of some inventory at YMX. Nobody really knows unless you see it on a daily basis.

You have to understand that you can't compare the A220 Family and the A320 Family. Everything from Production up to Delivery is different. Airbus has mastered the A320 Family Production/Delivery process. It will still take many years until Airbus masters the A220 Family production/Delivery process. So things like COVID will dramatically reduce the output. Finally, there are not many A220 operators. So if something like COVID comes in a way to those few operators, nothing really happens.

The word you see over and over again is COVID. Because right now that is big keyword on why the A220 family isn't producing the numbers that you want to see. Many airlines are delaying Deliveries. And as we have mentioned before, there was also an outbreak at the Plant. So production is likely lagging a bit behind as well, regardless of inventory of whether or not airlines want to take them.

But we do see some progress. You just have to be a bit patient because eventually we'll get the answers.
 
YYZYYT
Posts: 1087
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:41 am

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:03 pm

VV wrote:

There was no criticism in any of my comments. I am just asking questions because the answer to those questions gives a hint on the priorities set by the stakeholders.


Yes, you were critical of Airbus Canada for not meeting production targets announced in January 2020: How about this?

VV wrote:
What is th likelihood Airbus Canada can achieve this level of delivery?

We are now in September.
Any delivery shortfall means a deficit in their 2020 budget.


Or this?

VV wrote:
In addition an Airbus executive mentioned in January 2020 that Airbus Canada has to fund its operation.To do so, Airbus Canada was allowed to have up to US$ 1.5 billion of debts.

In my opinion, if the A220 delivery target in 2020 is not reached, Airbus Canada will have to increase its debts.


The reality is that the entire industry is in free fall, and orders and deliveries have been severely impacted. Airbus reported 195 deliveries in the first half of 2020, down from 389 in 2019*. Boeing is in similar position (or worse). In the face of this, and the outbreak at Mirabel, Airbus Canada is on track for 25-30 for the year, having delivered 13 to the end of July, and 7 expected in September. This is not so bad, frankly. Even when compared to the "great" results of 35 A320 family (compare that to 57 delivered in Nov 2019** and 108 in Dec 2019***).

And as for future dealings between Airbus / Airbus Canada and Quebec: I'm sure that production is being closely managed to conserve cash (as it will be company-wide), and that Quebec will appreciate that these are all unforeseen circumstances and do nothing rash.

I would add: From where I sit, I find it bizarre that you devote so much time and energy to searching out every possible negative factg / spin / comment about the CS / A220. You are entitled to your opinions, sure, just as I am entitled to mine (that the A220 is a great aircraft, with great potential, that was saved from BBD's mismanagement). While I am always open to debate, I find it serves no purpose to debate someone who's only goal is bashing.

* Airbus deliveries: https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... eries.html

** https://dsm.forecastinternational.com/w ... eliveries/

*** https://dsm.forecastinternational.com/w ... he%20fleet.
 
VV
Posts: 1858
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:09 am

I do not understand why people do not want to understand the possible consequences of such a low delivery level at Airbus Canada. It is not a criticism, but an effort to firstly understand why such situation happens in Montreal and secondly to understand what the implications are from funding perspective.
Please keep in mind that the government of Québec and Airbus agreed in January 2020 that Airbus Canada has to finance its operation (auto financing). To do so, Airbus and the government of Québec allowed Airbus Canada to contract US$ 1.5 billion of debts.

Will the debt limit be increased?

The assumptions on which that agreement was based in January 2020 is NOT valid any more and hence a lot of things will have to be adjusted. Including but not limited to re-adjustment of the delivery goal, adjustment of 2020 budget and setting a proper the delivery goal for 2021 that allow the partnership to achieve A220 profitability in 2025.

Or they also can shift the profitability target to a later date.

We all know the situation at Boeing or Airbus. Boeing is not delivering 737 MAX and they have a lot of inventory. Airbus delivered 35 A320 in August 2020. So we know there is still demand. Don't you want to know what the situation is at Airbus Canada?

What are the actions taken to correct the current situation?
 
VV
Posts: 1858
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:18 am

bspc wrote:
Fair enough. I'm sure there is a bit of some inventory at YMX. Nobody really knows unless you see it on a daily basis.

You have to understand that you can't compare the A220 Family and the A320 Family. Everything from Production up to Delivery is different. Airbus has mastered the A320 Family Production/Delivery process. It will still take many years until Airbus masters the A220 Family production/Delivery process. So things like COVID will dramatically reduce the output. Finally, there are not many A220 operators. So if something like COVID comes in a way to those few operators, nothing really happens.

The word you see over and over again is COVID. Because right now that is big keyword on why the A220 family isn't producing the numbers that you want to see. Many airlines are delaying Deliveries. And as we have mentioned before, there was also an outbreak at the Plant. So production is likely lagging a bit behind as well, regardless of inventory of whether or not airlines want to take them.

But we do see some progress. You just have to be a bit patient because eventually we'll get the answers.


Wait! Are you insinuating Airbus Canada is still not mastering the A220 production process? I do not understand.

As far as A220 inventory is concerned, it would be nice if someone who is present in Mirabel can give us a report on how many finished aircraft are ready to deliver. A single number would be enough like, "There are X A220 already completed and airlines can take delivery of the aircraft when they decide to do so.
 
T4thH
Posts: 1076
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:16 am

VV wrote:
bspc wrote:
Fair enough. I'm sure there is a bit of some inventory at YMX. Nobody really knows unless you see it on a daily basis.

You have to understand that you can't compare the A220 Family and the A320 Family. Everything from Production up to Delivery is different. Airbus has mastered the A320 Family Production/Delivery process. It will still take many years until Airbus masters the A220 Family production/Delivery process. So things like COVID will dramatically reduce the output. Finally, there are not many A220 operators. So if something like COVID comes in a way to those few operators, nothing really happens.

The word you see over and over again is COVID. Because right now that is big keyword on why the A220 family isn't producing the numbers that you want to see. Many airlines are delaying Deliveries. And as we have mentioned before, there was also an outbreak at the Plant. So production is likely lagging a bit behind as well, regardless of inventory of whether or not airlines want to take them.

But we do see some progress. You just have to be a bit patient because eventually we'll get the answers.


Wait! Are you insinuating Airbus Canada is still not mastering the A220 production process? I do not understand.

As far as A220 inventory is concerned, it would be nice if someone who is present in Mirabel can give us a report on how many finished aircraft are ready to deliver. A single number would be enough like, "There are X A220 already completed and airlines can take delivery of the aircraft when they decide to do so.

Sorry, can you read the posts in here or do you want only to troll? Seems, you are interested in the second only.
All links, to find them by yourselves, have been mentioned here again and again.
https://www.abcdlist.nl/cseries/cseries.html
https://aibfamily.flights/Airbus-A220
https://www.lesailesduquebec.com/airbus-a220-mise-a-jour-du-programme/ use only the French version and translator, build in your browsers.
Again and again the up to date status has been mentioned here.
 
User avatar
PW100
Posts: 4123
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 9:17 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:42 am

VV wrote:
ExMilitaryEng wrote:
VV you first said "Any delivery shortfall means a deficit in their 2020 budget" and I then answered you on that - for 2020, not only for August.
Since Covid (not only August), all OEMs are hurting. Indeed, cash preservation is now key for every players.
I don't buy your pretention that A220's customers in particular (versus others) don't have the financing or need less A220 urgently. Since you keep bringing the A320, how has been the fall of A320 / A321 deliveries since April? What are the production cuts that were announced?
I also find bizarre you stick with August, and not since Civid started.

Well, for the first eight months of 2020 Airbus Canada delivered 13 (thirteen) A220.
It is below the expected rate.
It seems airlines don't try to take delivery faster. In August only, Airbus delivered 35 (thirty five) A320 family aircraft.
I do not understand the sense of priority from those numbers.


How do those numbers look for Jun-Jul-Aug combined (A220 vs A320 family)?

I'm not sure how useful it is to focus in on one month and tying up hard/harsh conclusions.
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
Brianpr3
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:34 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:55 am

How long till jetblue 's a223's are delivered
Brian
 
bspc
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:07 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:18 am

I think he is referring to the number of Aircraft built but haven’t done any flights yet. None of this track this on any Airbus family. Off course it would be nice to have an idea of that.

And yes it will take some time until all the issues with the A220 Production process is ironed out. I think building their own final assembly in Mobile will speed this process up.
 
VV
Posts: 1858
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:26 pm

PW100 wrote:
VV wrote:
ExMilitaryEng wrote:
VV you first said "Any delivery shortfall means a deficit in their 2020 budget" and I then answered you on that - for 2020, not only for August.
Since Covid (not only August), all OEMs are hurting. Indeed, cash preservation is now key for every players.
I don't buy your pretention that A220's customers in particular (versus others) don't have the financing or need less A220 urgently. Since you keep bringing the A320, how has been the fall of A320 / A321 deliveries since April? What are the production cuts that were announced?
I also find bizarre you stick with August, and not since Civid started.

Well, for the first eight months of 2020 Airbus Canada delivered 13 (thirteen) A220.
It is below the expected rate.
It seems airlines don't try to take delivery faster. In August only, Airbus delivered 35 (thirty five) A320 family aircraft.
I do not understand the sense of priority from those numbers.


How do those numbers look for Jun-Jul-Aug combined (A220 vs A320 family)?

I'm not sure how useful it is to focus in on one month and tying up hard/harsh conclusions.



For the first EIGHT months of 2020 Airbus Canada delivered 13 (thirteen) A220.
 
T4thH
Posts: 1076
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:07 am

VV wrote:
PW100 wrote:
VV wrote:
Well, for the first eight months of 2020 Airbus Canada delivered 13 (thirteen) A220.
It is below the expected rate.
It seems airlines don't try to take delivery faster. In August only, Airbus delivered 35 (thirty five) A320 family aircraft.
I do not understand the sense of priority from those numbers.


How do those numbers look for Jun-Jul-Aug combined (A220 vs A320 family)?

I'm not sure how useful it is to focus in on one month and tying up hard/harsh conclusions.



For the first EIGHT months of 2020 Airbus Canada delivered 13 (thirteen) A220.

And? Last year, Airbus has delivered 26 in the same time. But there was in 2019 no 2.5 moth lock down from begin of march to mid of May, additional the production line closed for more than one month and the production numbers still reduced and has not reached pre-Covid numbers. There was not a 1 month delivery gap in August, as in this year the delivery department in Montreal has had a higher number of COVID cases and was closed. The Egypt air crew, to take up two planes in Jul/Aug have had several cases of COVID-19, so they have brought to "plaque" to Montreal.And in 2019, there were no global and local travel restrictions for several month, as we still see now.

There were 10 A220 completed, test flights performed and waiting to be taken up at end of Aug-2020, of them 7 for Delta and 1x each for Egypt Air, Air Baltic and Air Vanatu. And now there are additional 1x Egypt Air and 2x Air Canada performing test flights and 1x for Delta will start with first flights soon, seems 5x A220-100 will likely be taken up on contract in Sep-2020 (3 have been already taken up on contract), additional the first A220-300 produced in Mobile will be taken up in next days https://alabamanewscenter.com/2020/09/14/airbus-set-to-deliver-first-alabama-made-a220-jetliner-marks-five-years-in-mobile/, the second A220-300 has also completed the test flights (so also ready to be taken up by Delta) and it is likely, in part even already announced by the Airlines/news services, that additional 4 A220-300 will be taken up this month.
So all together possibly/likely 5x A220-100 and 2x A220-300 for Delta will be delivered on contract or delivered and 4 other: 1x Air Baltic, 2x Air Canada and 1x Egxpt Air, will be delivered (if the delivery centers will not reach their maximum, what they can do per month).
After Airbus has lost 3.5 month of deliveries and production, as they were not able to deliver any plane regarding COVID-19, they are doing pretty well, and pretty sure much better than all global competitors, including even all the other products of Airbus.

Please note, Airbus is still able to deliver from Mobile and Montreal up to 38 to 40 A220 this year, (as delivery and delivery on contract). In a pandemic COVID-19 year, this is just excellent.
 
bspc
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:07 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:27 am

We got a MSN 55081 heading for Toulouse - https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CFO ... /CYMX/LFBO
 
VV
Posts: 1858
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:13 am

T4thH wrote:
VV wrote:
PW100 wrote:

How do those numbers look for Jun-Jul-Aug combined (A220 vs A320 family)?

I'm not sure how useful it is to focus in on one month and tying up hard/harsh conclusions.



For the first EIGHT months of 2020 Airbus Canada delivered 13 (thirteen) A220.

And? Last year, Airbus has delivered 26 in the same time. But there was in 2019 no 2.5 moth lock down from begin of march to mid of May, additional the production line closed for more than one month and the production numbers still reduced and has not reached pre-Covid numbers. There was not a 1 month delivery gap in August, as in this year the delivery department in Montreal has had a higher number of COVID cases and was closed.
.....
Please note, Airbus is still able to deliver from Mobile and Montreal up to 38 to 40 A220 this year, (as delivery and delivery on contract). In a pandemic COVID-19 year, this is just excellent.


The purpose of my questions is to estimate whether Airbus Canada will be able to achieve the targeted delivery of 40 to 45 aicraft. Please note that Airbus has stated that it maintains the production rate for the A220.

However, Airbus Canada delivered only 13 aircraft during the first eight months of the year. It means if they want to achieve the targeted delivery this year there HAVE TO BE at least 15 completed aircraft in Mirabel and Mobile at this point.

You mentioned a 2.5 month lock down. Does it mean the production rate has gone down despite there has not been any formal announcement on it?

The objective of my questions is only to clearly understand if Airbus Canada will need further funding. As you know, in January 2020 an Airbus executive stated that Airbus Canada has to finance itself. To do so, the government of Québec and Airbus agreed to allow Airbus Canada to contract up to US 1.5 billion. Only part of that loan capacity has been drawn.

Depending on the delivery shortfall this year (if there is any) Airbus Canada may have to borrow more cash than the first round of debt.

In my opinion this is a very interesting information.

There are several options when you have a shortfall of cash inflow. The very first on is to reduce expenses. The obvious option is to cut jobs. The Canadian Emergency Wage Subsidy (CEWS) will not last forever.

At one point Airbus Canada will have to take a decision to deal with the reduced income if they do not meet their delivery target.

I hope you can now understand why I asked those questions.

You said they would meet the target, so everything is okay. Or is it?
 
VV
Posts: 1858
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Airbus A220 Production/Delivery Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:15 am

bspc wrote:
We got a MSN 55081 heading for Toulouse - https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CFO ... /CYMX/LFBO


Interesting.

What is the purpose of the trip?
  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos