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TheFlyGuy
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:10 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:32 pm

A route I’m curious if we could see is either AA or BA launching nonstop PHL-LGW, at least seasonally. I was surprised by the number of destinations BA serves via LGW only and not LHR. A number of these appear to be mostly leisure/holiday destinations, but a hypothetical PHL-LGW nonstop would open up one-stop (or two-stop service for pax connecting in PHL) to several new destinations that are currently unavailable via LHR. While many of these destinations are served by OW carrier Iberia and can be reached by one connection via MAD, the following appear to be only served by BA via LGW and no other OW carrier that serves PHL: AYT, BGY, JER, MRU, PFO, TIA, CGN, KGS, NUE. AYT and KGS are technically reachable via one connection from PHL, but only through DOH and then backtracking. Delta is launching BOS-LGW service in May so it makes me think that PHL-LGW on AA or BA could be feasible due to the onward connection possibilities on both sides.

Clearly this is all hypothetical, but it’s fun thinking about service voids that could potentially be filled.
 
Bigant0408
Topic Author
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:53 pm

TheFlyGuy wrote:
A route I’m curious if we could see is either AA or BA launching nonstop PHL-LGW, at least seasonally. I was surprised by the number of destinations BA serves via LGW only and not LHR. A number of these appear to be mostly leisure/holiday destinations, but a hypothetical PHL-LGW nonstop would open up one-stop (or two-stop service for pax connecting in PHL) to several new destinations that are currently unavailable via LHR. While many of these destinations are served by OW carrier Iberia and can be reached by one connection via MAD, the following appear to be only served by BA via LGW and no other OW carrier that serves PHL: AYT, BGY, JER, MRU, PFO, TIA, CGN, KGS, NUE. AYT and KGS are technically reachable via one connection from PHL, but only through DOH and then backtracking. Delta is launching BOS-LGW service in May so it makes me think that PHL-LGW on AA or BA could be feasible due to the onward connection possibilities on both sides.

Clearly this is all hypothetical, but it’s fun thinking about service voids that could potentially be filled.


Even tho it’s hypothetical I think it’s a good one. I have thought to myself is either or would start a LGW. Right now for me I can only see Norwegian starting the route with the 321LR once they start receiving them. Def are some caps AA and BA could capitalize on tho.
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1152
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:56 am

Pretty impressive wide body and international line up for AA this summer,

B757 (intl) - CMN, KEF, EDI, SJU, SNN
B767 - BUD, DBV, LIS, MAN, MIA, TXL
B788 - AMS, ZRH
A332 - BCN, CDG, DUB, LAX, MAD, PRG, SFO, VCE
A333 - ATH, FCO, LHR, LHR, SJU

+2 757s (going intl.)
+ 1 A333
+2 787s
A332s are even
767s are down by 5, but I suppose this is due to the lack of a finalized schedule and the 787s that came online. Anyone have any idea when we will see more 787s?
 
Ishrion
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Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:05 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Anyone have any idea when we will see more 787s?


Definitely Summer 2021. Most of the 767's will be gone... at least less than 5 will remain at the end of 2020 I think.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:32 pm

With AA hanging on by a strand at JFK, do you think PHL May benefit from the potential “dehubbing” of JFK?

AA currently flies year-round to;
BCN, CDG, EZE, GRU, LHR, MAD, MXP

Seasonally;
FCO, GIG

While I don’t think PHL will see service fo South America soon, especially because of the LATAM issue, but I do think it is very possible we see some more A333s, 788s and possibly the -9. To me, I see MAD, CDG and BCN Going to the A333 and MXP being added with either the XLR or 787.
 
lowfareair
Posts: 314
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:40 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:43 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
With AA hanging on by a strand at JFK, do you think PHL May benefit from the potential “dehubbing” of JFK?

AA currently flies year-round to;
BCN, CDG, EZE, GRU, LHR, MAD, MXP

Seasonally;
FCO, GIG

While I don’t think PHL will see service fo South America soon, especially because of the LATAM issue, but I do think it is very possible we see some more A333s, 788s and possibly the -9. To me, I see MAD, CDG and BCN Going to the A333 and MXP being added with either the XLR or 787.


I don't think AA will shrink too much more at JFK. Word on the street (well, JonNYC on Twitter who has a pretty good track record with AA rumors) seems to say that JFK has leveled off with cuts, at least for now.

Of the 7 you listed above, I agree that EZE/GRU wouldn't happen, LHR is their cash cow, MAD has the hub with joint venture partner Iberia, and BCN provides a crucial route for that Iberia-AA joint venture. CDG/MXP are the only two I see AA having any chance of dropping in the near-ish future: Both fairly big business/premium leisure routes, but have tons of competition on the NYC-PAR route from low cost carriers to DL/AF's 5-8 daily flights. MXP is slightly better competition-wise, but if they end up on better terms with QR, I can see them adding Air Italy to their TATL joint venture and dropping/moving MXP.
 
TheFlyGuy
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:10 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:29 am

lowfareair wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
With AA hanging on by a strand at JFK, do you think PHL May benefit from the potential “dehubbing” of JFK?

AA currently flies year-round to;
BCN, CDG, EZE, GRU, LHR, MAD, MXP

Seasonally;
FCO, GIG

While I don’t think PHL will see service fo South America soon, especially because of the LATAM issue, but I do think it is very possible we see some more A333s, 788s and possibly the -9. To me, I see MAD, CDG and BCN Going to the A333 and MXP being added with either the XLR or 787.


I don't think AA will shrink too much more at JFK. Word on the street (well, JonNYC on Twitter who has a pretty good track record with AA rumors) seems to say that JFK has leveled off with cuts, at least for now.

Of the 7 you listed above, I agree that EZE/GRU wouldn't happen, LHR is their cash cow, MAD has the hub with joint venture partner Iberia, and BCN provides a crucial route for that Iberia-AA joint venture. CDG/MXP are the only two I see AA having any chance of dropping in the near-ish future: Both fairly big business/premium leisure routes, but have tons of competition on the NYC-PAR route from low cost carriers to DL/AF's 5-8 daily flights. MXP is slightly better competition-wise, but if they end up on better terms with QR, I can see them adding Air Italy to their TATL joint venture and dropping/moving MXP.


I also do not see AA dehubbing JFK and feel that the recent downsizing has likely stopped. I would not be shocked to see MXP moved to PHL, similar to the move of ZRH from JFK to PHL which is also a premium-heavy business market. JFK-MXP currently has five airlines—Air Italy, Alitalia, AA, Delta and Emirates (Fifth Freedom rights) competing on that route—as well as EWR-MXP on United competing for local O&D traffic. Even if AA doesn’t move The MXP route from JFK to PHL, I see MXP as one of the most likely new European destinations AA launches nonstop from PHL. I have no figures to back this up but I would imagine the vast majority of AA pax on the JFK-MXP route are O&D with few connecting pax. PHL could fill a void for connecting Traffic and local O&D without cannibalizing any/much JFK traffic on the route.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 652
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:00 am

Could be speculating badly here, by dehubbing JFK would raise the cost to operate at PHL? PHL is pretty tight airport in the afternoon for AA during the summer season. They would need more banks which is expensive to run. Yes we could see more destinations but reduced frequency on some routes. That way PHL could get the B777 :spin:
Please someone correct me.
 
lowfareair
Posts: 314
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:40 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:29 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
Could be speculating badly here, by dehubbing JFK would raise the cost to operate at PHL? PHL is pretty tight airport in the afternoon for AA during the summer season. They would need more banks which is expensive to run. Yes we could see more destinations but reduced frequency on some routes. That way PHL could get the B777 :spin:
Please someone correct me.


PHL needs a 2nd international bank from AA if they want to expand TATL any more. There are very few hardstands available currently, they've converted just about all terminal A gates to allow for int'l arrivals, the only other options for expansion would be to convert/rebuild the blue cargo building West of A-West into a new concourse or more hardstands, which many passengers do not like.
 
aerace
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:17 pm

lowfareair wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
Could be speculating badly here, by dehubbing JFK would raise the cost to operate at PHL? PHL is pretty tight airport in the afternoon for AA during the summer season. They would need more banks which is expensive to run. Yes we could see more destinations but reduced frequency on some routes. That way PHL could get the B777 :spin:
Please someone correct me.


PHL needs a 2nd international bank from AA if they want to expand TATL any more. There are very few hardstands available currently, they've converted just about all terminal A gates to allow for int'l arrivals, the only other options for expansion would be to convert/rebuild the blue cargo building West of A-West into a new concourse or more hardstands, which many passengers do not like.


I couldn't agree more with this. I flew to Paris after Christmas and both A concourses were pretty slammed...and this is the off-season albeit after the holiday. It would be smart if they added a bulkier 830-1030 bank. Maybe they can drop the more leisure destinations i.e. DBV, TXL, LIS, etc. during this slot and leave the business-heavier routes in the earlier bank in order for those pax to get a full work day. Something's gotta give though especially if AA is looking to expand PHL further when the XLR comes online.
 
usairways85
Posts: 4158
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:51 pm

aerace wrote:
Something's gotta give though especially if AA is looking to expand PHL further when the XLR comes online.

XLR's should be able to depart from B and C. But I agree the 6-7pm departure bank is pretty much full. The late 8:30-10:30 bank likely depends on a corresponding domestic bank. I do not know how much of that exists. PHL-CMN is scheduled in the late bank. So is PHL-LIS, I think it always has been.
 
aerace
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:13 pm

usairways85 wrote:
aerace wrote:
Something's gotta give though especially if AA is looking to expand PHL further when the XLR comes online.

XLR's should be able to depart from B and C. But I agree the 6-7pm departure bank is pretty much full. The late 8:30-10:30 bank likely depends on a corresponding domestic bank. I do not know how much of that exists. PHL-CMN is scheduled in the late bank. So is PHL-LIS, I think it always has been.


Gotcha. Didn't realize that. But I guess the arrivals issue still remains since A is only fit for customs.
 
Bigant0408
Topic Author
Posts: 537
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:48 pm

usairways85 wrote:
aerace wrote:
Something's gotta give though especially if AA is looking to expand PHL further when the XLR comes online.

XLR's should be able to depart from B and C. But I agree the 6-7pm departure bank is pretty much full. The late 8:30-10:30 bank likely depends on a corresponding domestic bank. I do not know how much of that exists. PHL-CMN is scheduled in the late bank. So is PHL-LIS, I think it always has been.


I know the DUB flight with AA usually departs around 9pm as well and I believe the second LHR flight from them AA correct me if I’m wrong
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
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chepos
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:56 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
usairways85 wrote:
aerace wrote:
Something's gotta give though especially if AA is looking to expand PHL further when the XLR comes online.

XLR's should be able to depart from B and C. But I agree the 6-7pm departure bank is pretty much full. The late 8:30-10:30 bank likely depends on a corresponding domestic bank. I do not know how much of that exists. PHL-CMN is scheduled in the late bank. So is PHL-LIS, I think it always has been.


I know the DUB flight with AA usually departs around 9pm as well and I believe the second LHR flight from them AA correct me if I’m wrong


Yes, DUB operates after the 9 pm hour. KEF will also be a late evening departure (2015 departure time I believe). AMS depending on time of the year departs after 2100.


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PHLspecial
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:02 pm

lowfareair wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
Could be speculating badly here, by dehubbing JFK would raise the cost to operate at PHL? PHL is pretty tight airport in the afternoon for AA during the summer season. They would need more banks which is expensive to run. Yes we could see more destinations but reduced frequency on some routes. That way PHL could get the B777 :spin:
Please someone correct me.


PHL needs a 2nd international bank from AA if they want to expand TATL any more. There are very few hardstands available currently, they've converted just about all terminal A gates to allow for int'l arrivals, the only other options for expansion would be to convert/rebuild the blue cargo building West of A-West into a new concourse or more hardstands, which many passengers do not like.


I read somewhere that PHL tried buying the international plaza a while back and failed. Would they be able to buy that land?
Also the Blue cargo building would be relocated to the new cargo land?
 
phljjs
Posts: 334
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:34 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
lowfareair wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
Could be speculating badly here, by dehubbing JFK would raise the cost to operate at PHL? PHL is pretty tight airport in the afternoon for AA during the summer season. They would need more banks which is expensive to run. Yes we could see more destinations but reduced frequency on some routes. That way PHL could get the B777 :spin:
Please someone correct me.


PHL needs a 2nd international bank from AA if they want to expand TATL any more. There are very few hardstands available currently, they've converted just about all terminal A gates to allow for int'l arrivals, the only other options for expansion would be to convert/rebuild the blue cargo building West of A-West into a new concourse or more hardstands, which many passengers do not like.


I read somewhere that PHL tried buying the international plaza a while back and failed. Would they be able to buy that land?
Also the Blue cargo building would be relocated to the new cargo land?


I can't find a link, but PHL bought International Plaza in 2017 or 2018. Right now, the plan is keep it as is because a lot of airport related businesses and government agencies occupy it. The thought is that eventually in a few years they will move everyone to new office space and use the land for an additional terminal or cargo space.
 
gjrip
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:27 pm

Would LOVE a direct PHL to MXP. I'm an engineer at Leonardo Helicopters at our PNE Airport campus. We have over 700 employees here now after a large orderbook increase due to the MH-139 and TH-119 (now TH-73A) contract victories, as well as overall significant facility and operational expansion.

Our headquarters is in the region surrounding MXP - in Cascina Costa, Vergiate, and Sesto Calende, Italy. We have people going to an from MXP constantly and I, along with everyone else, has to drive to Newark for the United flights to MXP on a kinda dingy 767. An American B788 PHL-MXP route would be an absolute dream for me/us.
PHL spotter - Leonardo Helicopters Engineer - Old City, Philly
 
Bigant0408
Topic Author
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:41 pm

https://kywnewsradio.radio.com/articles ... -screening

Wasn't even a thought to me that PHL would start testing biometric screenings on some international flights but they will on a 45-day program run
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
Ishrion
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:33 pm

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... rk-growth/

PHL CEO Chellie Cameron said: “With the completion of the runway 27L extension and the arrival of American Airlines’ 787 Dreamliners on daily flights, PHL is ready to expand its current destination offerings.
 
PHLspecial
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:28 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
https://kywnewsradio.radio.com/articles/ap-news/philadelphia-international-airport-to-test-new-screening

Wasn't even a thought to me that PHL would start testing biometric screenings on some international flights but they will on a 45-day program run


Clearly PHL is very serious in attracting International airlines. Let's hope they can deploy this soon after the pilot program.

The international hall definitely needs more room or a new international terminal. Are all the gates terminal A able to handle international arrivals? I remember seeing some of them you have to go downstairs?
 
aerace
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:17 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
https://kywnewsradio.radio.com/articles/ap-news/philadelphia-international-airport-to-test-new-screening

Wasn't even a thought to me that PHL would start testing biometric screenings on some international flights but they will on a 45-day program run


Clearly PHL is very serious in attracting International airlines. Let's hope they can deploy this soon after the pilot program.

The international hall definitely needs more room or a new international terminal. Are all the gates terminal A able to handle international arrivals? I remember seeing some of them you have to go downstairs?


That's the problem here. Unless PHL is going to become closer to a 24 hour operation, there will be likely no space for planes to arrive during the normal heavily trafficked times. A-East was the original international terminal where you are go below ground to get to immigration. A-West arrivals are above departures.
 
usairways85
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:49 pm

Preliminary S20 international departures. AA has a decent sized late bank after 9pm. It is generally reserved for western Europe and now Africa. It looks like they pushed out some of the 6-7pm departures to the 6:50-7:05 time frame. I think there is some space in here.

4:25 ATH (AA) 333
5:35 FRA (LH) 346
5:45 DUB (EI) 32N
6:05 TXL (AA) 763
6:05 BUD (AA) 763
6:30 FCO (AA) 333
6:30 DBV (AA) 763
6:40 LHR (BA) 350
6:45 PRG (AA) 332
6:50 VCE (AA) 332
6:50 MAD (AA) 332
7:00 AMS (AA) 788
7:00 BCN (AA) 332
7:05 ZRH (AA) 788
7:20 LHR (AA) 333
9:00 CDG (AA) 332
9:00 DOH (QR) 77W
9:10 MAN (AA) 763
9:10 DUB (AA) 332
9:10 EDI (AA) 752
9:20 SNN (AA) 752
9:30 LIS (AA) 763
9:30 CMN (AA) 752
9:55 LHR (AA) 333 **This flight will likely be retimed earlier
10:00 LHR (BA) 777
10:15 KEF (AA) 752
 
aerace
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:56 pm

usairways85 wrote:
Preliminary S20 international departures. AA has a decent sized late bank after 9pm. It is generally reserved for western Europe and now Africa. It looks like they pushed out some of the 6-7pm departures to the 6:50-7:05 time frame. I think there is some space in here.

4:25 ATH (AA) 333
5:35 FRA (LH) 346
5:45 DUB (EI) 32N
6:05 TXL (AA) 763
6:05 BUD (AA) 763
6:30 FCO (AA) 333
6:30 DBV (AA) 763
6:40 LHR (BA) 350
6:45 PRG (AA) 332
6:50 VCE (AA) 332
6:50 MAD (AA) 332
7:00 AMS (AA) 788
7:00 BCN (AA) 332
7:05 ZRH (AA) 788
7:20 LHR (AA) 333
9:00 CDG (AA) 332
9:00 DOH (QR) 77W
9:10 MAN (AA) 763
9:10 DUB (AA) 332
9:10 EDI (AA) 752
9:20 SNN (AA) 752
9:30 LIS (AA) 763
9:30 CMN (AA) 752
9:55 LHR (AA) 333 **This flight will likely be retimed earlier
10:00 LHR (BA) 777
10:15 KEF (AA) 752


Looks like FI departs 8:30 PM, although not daily. I don't know why, but am I wrong in thinking that this schedule looks improved on prior years, yet there are more destinations?
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 652
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:26 pm

aerace wrote:
usairways85 wrote:
Preliminary S20 international departures. AA has a decent sized late bank after 9pm. It is generally reserved for western Europe and now Africa. It looks like they pushed out some of the 6-7pm departures to the 6:50-7:05 time frame. I think there is some space in here.

4:25 ATH (AA) 333
5:35 FRA (LH) 346
5:45 DUB (EI) 32N
6:05 TXL (AA) 763
6:05 BUD (AA) 763
6:30 FCO (AA) 333
6:30 DBV (AA) 763
6:40 LHR (BA) 350
6:45 PRG (AA) 332
6:50 VCE (AA) 332
6:50 MAD (AA) 332
7:00 AMS (AA) 788
7:00 BCN (AA) 332
7:05 ZRH (AA) 788
7:20 LHR (AA) 333
9:00 CDG (AA) 332
9:00 DOH (QR) 77W
9:10 MAN (AA) 763
9:10 DUB (AA) 332
9:10 EDI (AA) 752
9:20 SNN (AA) 752
9:30 LIS (AA) 763
9:30 CMN (AA) 752
9:55 LHR (AA) 333 **This flight will likely be retimed earlier
10:00 LHR (BA) 777
10:15 KEF (AA) 752


Looks like FI departs 8:30 PM, although not daily. I don't know why, but am I wrong in thinking that this schedule looks improved on prior years, yet there are more destinations?


Seems like spreading out the departure times to 7:05 makes it look better. Though terminal A will be super busy from 5pm-7pm.
 
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proudavgeek
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:13 pm

AA finally bringing B-787 Dream-liners to its Philly base. 3 International and 3 domestic routes... Will be a good spotting opportunity!!
 
GSP psgr
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:59 pm

I keep thinking that with the 321LRs we'll eventually see restoration of service to some of the business markets that were dropped post merger-BRU, FRA, MXP, and MUC come to mind.

I also keep hoping we'll see PHL-HEL in some variant to link up to Finnair's Baltic and Scandinavian network; HEL is probably a shade too far for a 321, so I would guess it would start as a seasonal 787 or 332.
 
dfw88
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:39 pm

GSP psgr wrote:
I keep thinking that with the 321LRs we'll eventually see restoration of service to some of the business markets that were dropped post merger-BRU, FRA, MXP, and MUC come to mind.

I also keep hoping we'll see PHL-HEL in some variant to link up to Finnair's Baltic and Scandinavian network; HEL is probably a shade too far for a 321, so I would guess it would start as a seasonal 787 or 332.


AA doesn't have any 321LRs on order. They have NEOs and XLRs. The NEO won't make HEL (someone can correct me if I'm wrong), but the XLR will make it with no problem. I have my fingers crossed that the XLR in PHL will bring some Scandinavian and Nordic destinations, likely starting with HEL.
 
ddaly241
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:42 am

Do you think American could expand to like 500 flights daily? just curious.
 
Varsity1
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:48 am

ddaly241 wrote:
Do you think American could expand to like 500 flights daily? just curious.


Every time I pass through PHL I have serious doubts about the large scale expansion opportunities. Infrastructure at PHL is very wonky/
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
PHLspecial
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:33 am

Varsity1 wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
Do you think American could expand to like 500 flights daily? just curious.


Every time I pass through PHL I have serious doubts about the large scale expansion opportunities. Infrastructure at PHL is very wonky/


What can they improve for infrastructure? A in ground fueling system would help.Also faster system for bags because they take forever.
 
Varsity1
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:54 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
Do you think American could expand to like 500 flights daily? just curious.


Every time I pass through PHL I have serious doubts about the large scale expansion opportunities. Infrastructure at PHL is very wonky/


What can they improve for infrastructure? A in ground fueling system would help.Also faster system for bags because they take forever.


People movers, the current connection walk takes forever. Larger immigration hall, more efficent runway setup, larger gate areas.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
PHLspecial
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:31 pm

PHL wishlist: People mover (can't come soon enough), Larger Immigration hall, New Rental Car garage, more space for moving in general, new commuter terminal and international terminal.
 
TheFlyGuy
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:18 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
People movers, the current connection walk takes forever. Larger immigration hall, more efficent runway setup, larger gate areas.


I agree with all these, particularly that larger gate areas are needed. A-West is good, but B & C are extremely cramped.
 
crownvic
Posts: 2689
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:05 am

TheFlyGuy wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
People movers, the current connection walk takes forever. Larger immigration hall, more efficent runway setup, larger gate areas.


I agree with all these, particularly that larger gate areas are needed. A-West is good, but B & C are extremely cramped.


B & C are cramped because this is essentially the same terminal that was built in the 1950s for DC-6s, DC-7s, Convairliners and Martins. I doubt these terminals could ever be widened, because it would sacrifice essential ramp space that is already very tight. Philly needs an all new airport, but that is NEVER going to happen.

I have never agreed with the way PHL has allocated vital space at this airport. What they should do is build an entirely new cargo facility on the east side of the airport along Island Ave parallel to 17-35. This will free up all the space west of the A gates. Starting at the far west end of the airport where the de-ice pad is and where they have acquired new land, start building an entirely new terminal. Once this terminal is open, start working their way east adding another new terminal until they reach the A gates. To save money, do nothing more than a renovation to the A gates, because the ramp space at the entire A Terminal is adequate. From this point, demolish B and C and erect a new terminal in the center where of where B and C once stood. This will then allow adequate separation of the A, new B/C and D terminals.

By looking at an overhead satellite view of the airport, you can see how there is plenty of space to do things, if the land was properly allocated. This idea would be much cheaper than the all the alternatives they were planning, that have all been shelved. It would also be the most effective way of expanding the airport without sacrificing terminal space.
 
flyboy7974
Posts: 1402
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 4:35 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:05 am

ddaly241 wrote:
Do you think American could expand to like 500 flights daily? just curious.


Coming soon to a PHL near you ........... yes

Wait til the CLT 700 is finished
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 652
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:25 am

crownvic wrote:
TheFlyGuy wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
People movers, the current connection walk takes forever. Larger immigration hall, more efficent runway setup, larger gate areas.


I agree with all these, particularly that larger gate areas are needed. A-West is good, but B & C are extremely cramped.


B & C are cramped because this is essentially the same terminal that was built in the 1950s for DC-6s, DC-7s, Convairliners and Martins. I doubt these terminals could ever be widened, because it would sacrifice essential ramp space that is already very tight. Philly needs an all new airport, but that is NEVER going to happen.

I have never agreed with the way PHL has allocated vital space at this airport. What they should do is build an entirely new cargo facility on the east side of the airport along Island Ave parallel to 17-35. This will free up all the space west of the A gates. Starting at the far west end of the airport where the de-ice pad is and where they have acquired new land, start building an entirely new terminal. Once this terminal is open, start working their way east adding another new terminal until they reach the A gates. To save money, do nothing more than a renovation to the A gates, because the ramp space at the entire A Terminal is adequate. From this point, demolish B and C and erect a new terminal in the center where of where B and C once stood. This will then allow adequate separation of the A, new B/C and D terminals.

By looking at an overhead satellite view of the airport, you can see how there is plenty of space to do things, if the land was properly allocated. This idea would be much cheaper than the all the alternatives they were planning, that have all been shelved. It would also be the most effective way of expanding the airport without sacrificing terminal space.


I absolutely agree with that plan. They would need to reconfigure a lot of taxiways around the 17-35 taxiways because I believe it's to narrow for widebodies. Also there would be more space if the economy lot was relocated as well.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 652
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:14 pm

Delta 776 MD-90 PHL-ATL | Returning to Philadelphia after nose gear not retracting

https://youtu.be/Z9pOfv9dcFU


Nice communication by everyone
 
sagechan
Posts: 352
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:14 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:11 pm

flyboy7974 wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
Do you think American could expand to like 500 flights daily? just curious.


Coming soon to a PHL near you ........... yes

Wait til the CLT 700 is finished


Looks like AA will be at a little over 400 flights per day this summer. PHL 500 is certainly possible, but I'd guess that until the MAX is resolved AA is somewhat aircraft restrained. That would require adding 1-2 full banks I believe.
717, 733, 734, 738, 739, 744, 752, 763, 772, 77W, 789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A359, MD88, CRJ, CR7, CR9, DH1, DH2, DH3, S340, ER4, E170, E175, E190/CO, NW, US, AC, NH, AA, UA, DL, WN, WS, SK, VY, LA, QF, AR, AV, MH, KA, AS
 
crj900lr
Posts: 482
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:44 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:27 am

PHLspecial wrote:
PHL wishlist: People mover (can't come soon enough), Larger Immigration hall, New Rental Car garage, more space for moving in general, new commuter terminal and international terminal.



The F terminal needs a serious upgrade. It was fine back when it opened because of the aircraft that were using it (BE1, DH8, CR2, D38, etc) But now its cramped and defiantly to small for what AA is trying to do with it. You now have CR9's, CR7's, E145's, and a few CR2's at the gates now.
 
crownvic
Posts: 2689
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:05 am

PHLspecial wrote:
crownvic wrote:
TheFlyGuy wrote:

I agree with all these, particularly that larger gate areas are needed. A-West is good, but B & C are extremely cramped.


B & C are cramped because this is essentially the same terminal that was built in the 1950s for DC-6s, DC-7s, Convairliners and Martins. I doubt these terminals could ever be widened, because it would sacrifice essential ramp space that is already very tight. Philly needs an all new airport, but that is NEVER going to happen.

I have never agreed with the way PHL has allocated vital space at this airport. What they should do is build an entirely new cargo facility on the east side of the airport along Island Ave parallel to 17-35. This will free up all the space west of the A gates. Starting at the far west end of the airport where the de-ice pad is and where they have acquired new land, start building an entirely new terminal. Once this terminal is open, start working their way east adding another new terminal until they reach the A gates. To save money, do nothing more than a renovation to the A gates, because the ramp space at the entire A Terminal is adequate. From this point, demolish B and C and erect a new terminal in the center where of where B and C once stood. This will then allow adequate separation of the A, new B/C and D terminals.

By looking at an overhead satellite view of the airport, you can see how there is plenty of space to do things, if the land was properly allocated. This idea would be much cheaper than the all the alternatives they were planning, that have all been shelved. It would also be the most effective way of expanding the airport without sacrificing terminal space.


I absolutely agree with that plan. They would need to reconfigure a lot of taxiways around the 17-35 taxiways because I believe it's to narrow for widebodies. Also there would be more space if the economy lot was relocated as well.


For years, there has been a limited amount of businesses along east side of Island Ave. One would think that the airport authority/city could have bought these businesses out and realign Island Ave more to the east , so that there could be increased space east of the 17-35 runway. Honestly, I have been going to PHL since the early 60s and not much has changed east of Island Ave. That economy lot is a complete waste of valuable airport frontage space. Economy lots could easily be relocated to off airport property locations. There is also a huge parking lot adjacent to the Terminal F yet again wasting valuable airport frontage.

Like most airports in the NE, bureaucracy takes precedence over common sense and PHL has had no shortage of bureaucracy during it's lifetime. The airport is definitely pinned in with a river to the south and a wildlife preserve to the north, but some creativity could have been used to solve their problems. There are entirely too many corporate jet facilities on the NE and SE side of the airport occupying valuable space, that should have been moved to PNE once Scott Paper closed it's flight department. Instead they built even more corporate jet facilities at an airport that is already overtaxed with ATC delays along with a runway that can only be used in one direction.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 652
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:47 pm

crownvic wrote:
For years, there has been a limited amount of businesses along east side of Island Ave. One would think that the airport authority/city could have bought these businesses out and realign Island Ave more to the east , so that there could be increased space east of the 17-35 runway. Honestly, I have been going to PHL since the early 60s and not much has changed east of Island Ave. That economy lot is a complete waste of valuable airport frontage space. Economy lots could easily be relocated to off airport property locations. There is also a huge parking lot adjacent to the Terminal F yet again wasting valuable airport frontage.

Like most airports in the NE, bureaucracy takes precedence over common sense and PHL has had no shortage of bureaucracy during it's lifetime. The airport is definitely pinned in with a river to the south and a wildlife preserve to the north, but some creativity could have been used to solve their problems. There are entirely too many corporate jet facilities on the NE and SE side of the airport occupying valuable space, that should have been moved to PNE once Scott Paper closed it's flight department. Instead they built even more corporate jet facilities at an airport that is already overtaxed with ATC delays along with a runway that can only be used in one direction.


Absolutely. I would blame the city for pushing jobs outside the city center. It would be nice if all the terminals could be redone like LGA increase space and gate areas. Also more lounges. Relocating the cargo facility to the new acquired land will help.

Is Runway 8/26 a waste?
 
crownvic
Posts: 2689
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:25 am

PHLspecial wrote:
crownvic wrote:
For years, there has been a limited amount of businesses along east side of Island Ave. One would think that the airport authority/city could have bought these businesses out and realign Island Ave more to the east , so that there could be increased space east of the 17-35 runway. Honestly, I have been going to PHL since the early 60s and not much has changed east of Island Ave. That economy lot is a complete waste of valuable airport frontage space. Economy lots could easily be relocated to off airport property locations. There is also a huge parking lot adjacent to the Terminal F yet again wasting valuable airport frontage.

Like most airports in the NE, bureaucracy takes precedence over common sense and PHL has had no shortage of bureaucracy during it's lifetime. The airport is definitely pinned in with a river to the south and a wildlife preserve to the north, but some creativity could have been used to solve their problems. There are entirely too many corporate jet facilities on the NE and SE side of the airport occupying valuable space, that should have been moved to PNE once Scott Paper closed it's flight department. Instead they built even more corporate jet facilities at an airport that is already overtaxed with ATC delays along with a runway that can only be used in one direction.


Absolutely. I would blame the city for pushing jobs outside the city center. It would be nice if all the terminals could be redone like LGA increase space and gate areas. Also more lounges. Relocating the cargo facility to the new acquired land will help.

Is Runway 8/26 a waste?


Good question. Personally, I think it is a waste. While it does pull a (very) limited amount of traffic off the other runways, I question the thought process (again) that went into the expense of building a runway, that can only be used in one direction and serves no purpose for commercial operators. Something makes me think this runway was backed with some "strong-arming" bureaucracy, like so much in this city.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 652
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

crownvic wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
crownvic wrote:
For years, there has been a limited amount of businesses along east side of Island Ave. One would think that the airport authority/city could have bought these businesses out and realign Island Ave more to the east , so that there could be increased space east of the 17-35 runway. Honestly, I have been going to PHL since the early 60s and not much has changed east of Island Ave. That economy lot is a complete waste of valuable airport frontage space. Economy lots could easily be relocated to off airport property locations. There is also a huge parking lot adjacent to the Terminal F yet again wasting valuable airport frontage.

Like most airports in the NE, bureaucracy takes precedence over common sense and PHL has had no shortage of bureaucracy during it's lifetime. The airport is definitely pinned in with a river to the south and a wildlife preserve to the north, but some creativity could have been used to solve their problems. There are entirely too many corporate jet facilities on the NE and SE side of the airport occupying valuable space, that should have been moved to PNE once Scott Paper closed it's flight department. Instead they built even more corporate jet facilities at an airport that is already overtaxed with ATC delays along with a runway that can only be used in one direction.


Absolutely. I would blame the city for pushing jobs outside the city center. It would be nice if all the terminals could be redone like LGA increase space and gate areas. Also more lounges. Relocating the cargo facility to the new acquired land will help.

Is Runway 8/26 a waste?


Good question. Personally, I think it is a waste. While it does pull a (very) limited amount of traffic off the other runways, I question the thought process (again) that went into the expense of building a runway, that can only be used in one direction and serves no purpose for commercial operators. Something makes me think this runway was backed with some "strong-arming" bureaucracy, like so much in this city.


Well if PHL owned the space by the GA ramp at the Liquor Control Board they could turn runway 8/26 into a taxiway and use that area for additional space. Granted don't know if widebodies are allowed on taxiway K between taxiway N and H.
 
usairways85
Posts: 4158
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:15 pm

International took a hit again, but still up over 2018

November Traffic Numbers
Domestic
Month: +4.1% YTD: +4.2%
International
Month: -7.6% YTD: +2.4%
Total
Month: +3.0% YTD: +2.4%
YTD Paxs: 30,335,859

On another note, cargo continues to grow
Total Cargo (Mail + Freight)
Month: +6.4% YTD: +9.0%
YTD Total Cargo: 544,265 tons
**To give some context, in all of 2015 the airport handled 403,783 tons
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 652
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:18 pm

usairways85 wrote:
International took a hit again, but still up over 2018

November Traffic Numbers
Domestic
Month: +4.1% YTD: +4.2%
International
Month: -7.6% YTD: +2.4%
Total
Month: +3.0% YTD: +2.4%
YTD Paxs: 30,335,859

On another note, cargo continues to grow
Total Cargo (Mail + Freight)
Month: +6.4% YTD: +9.0%
YTD Total Cargo: 544,265 tons
**To give some context, in all of 2015 the airport handled 403,783 tons

Any clues on the international numbers dropping? I think the number seats available are the same as last year.

Also I guess we can thank UPS for all that Cargo growth? Awesome to see. Can't wait to see more growth once the new cargo facilities are built.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1152
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:59 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
usairways85 wrote:
International took a hit again, but still up over 2018

November Traffic Numbers
Domestic
Month: +4.1% YTD: +4.2%
International
Month: -7.6% YTD: +2.4%
Total
Month: +3.0% YTD: +2.4%
YTD Paxs: 30,335,859

On another note, cargo continues to grow
Total Cargo (Mail + Freight)
Month: +6.4% YTD: +9.0%
YTD Total Cargo: 544,265 tons
**To give some context, in all of 2015 the airport handled 403,783 tons

Any clues on the international numbers dropping? I think the number seats available are the same as last year.

Also I guess we can thank UPS for all that Cargo growth? Awesome to see. Can't wait to see more growth once the new cargo facilities are built.


Going to say dropping FRA and MUC had to hurt. That’s just an assumption though.
 
usairways85
Posts: 4158
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:23 am

Yes, UPS is to thank for much of the cargo growth. There were sometimes 3 747s a day into PHL during the cargo rush. UPS now also occasionally brings in the 748. I also think Amazon air has 1-2 flights a day.

I believe PHL-FRA was already suspended/cancelled in Nov 2018. PHL-MUC was still operating, so that's a loss of seats. AA might have been more aggressive trimming TA flights around Thanksgiving.
 
BENFRANKLIN
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:34 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:57 pm

PHL unfortunately has limited due to where it is located. However with that being said I still think you can shuffle some areas around and expand. First area is if possible to move FedEx Over to the UPS side ? That would free up space and you could possibly build another international terminal. Just a thought. Another option, is the large parking lot next to Terminal F. Build a new terminal and slide everything over. A-East takes over B... B goes over to C ect ect.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7700
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:59 pm

I'm not sure what the purpose was for Runway 8/26. I think it would have been a better use of land had UPS possibly moved its facilities there. I know - we all know UPS doesn't want to go anywhere. Relocating the one runway to where UPS is currently would have been ideal. You could have enough land in between to have multiple take-offs and landings, and you could have an airside terminal built in between the two runways. I believe this has been discussed ad nauseum in previous threads.

Exciting to think of AA possibly going to 500 daily fligfhts. Just makes me wonder how PHL will be able to handle that.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Zbogart757
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:35 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:04 pm

Would demolishing runway 8-26 be a beneficial idea since that runway is really only used for GA when they could use 17-35, build a new satellite type terminal where 8-26. Or the idea to as said above to expand the near the UPS ramp and have all cargo ops be down there and build another international terminal in that space work better.
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