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qf789
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The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:20 pm

Please continue to add your comment below

Link to last thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411841
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brooklynchris13
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:39 pm

Happy New Year Everyone! Amazing to think we are on the verge of 2020! The Columbus Dispatch did a story on the additional Alaska flight to SEA with the times and operational dates. Have to suspect this may stick around if it shows strong signs of life.

https://www.dispatch.com/business/20191 ... to-seattle

One item I was wondering about, and DeltaRules may have the answer, did that study ever show up about improving the gate utilization at CMH as an interim step to increasing capacity/improving operations. I think was that early in '19 when the CRAA mentioned it was going to be done but we have not seen anything come out yet to my knowledge.
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Pudelhund
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:51 pm

And the AS flight was upgauged to a 737-900ER, so that must be a good sign.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:00 pm

Welcome to the 2020 regional thread for aviation in Ohio (except CLE- more on that later). This is fourth "annual" thread we've had where we've been able to have an ongoing regional hub for the Buckeye State and I'd like to thank everyone for continuing to keep these going and active.

Taking a lap around the state, the Ohio airports with/which could have scheduled service we primarily chat in these threads include:
-CVG (Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport)- DL Hub/Focus City, G4 & F9 Focus City, large DHL/soon-to-be major Amazon Air hub, PSA MX, Endeavor crew base. (Yes, it's in Kentucky, but it's Cincinnati's airport. ;))
--LUK (Cincinnati Municipal Lunken Airport)- Home of Ultimate Air Shuttle.
-CMH (John Glenn Columbus International Airport)- Home of NetJets, Republic MX & crew base, Envoy MX base.
--LCK (Rickenbacker International Airport (Columbus))- Rapidly-developing international air cargo/logistics center, also served by G4.
-DAY (James M. Cox Dayton International Airport)- Home of PSA Airlines with a large MX and crew base, also houses an Air Wisconsin MX base.
-TOL (Toledo Express Airport)- Served by G4 and AA, gained service to CLT in 2018.
-CAK (Akron-Canton Airport)- Serves its own region and also acts as a secondary Cleveland airport.
-YNG (Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport)- No scheduled service now, but working on regaining passenger service.
-ILN (Wilmington Air Park)- Home of ABX/ATSG, Phoenix from the flames hub/sort facility for Amazon Air.
-HTS (Tri-State Airport, Huntington, WV)- Regional airport which serves southern Ohio, located across the Ohio River from Ironton.
-PKB (Mid-Ohio Valley Regional Airport, Parkersburg, WV)- EAS-served regional airport which serves Southeast Ohio and advertises itself as an airport for Marietta.

While CVG and CMH generate a good bit of the discussion, there's also talk in this thread about the smaller airports, and that's the intended beauty of these threads- a community stream to keep track of what's going on in and around the state. If you find something interesting about a non-commercially served airport, again, share it! In recent years, we've also "adopted" airports in West Virginia which are a stone's throw from Ohio (HTS and PKB).

Previous threads:
-2019: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411841
-2018- viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1382407&hilit=cle
-2017- viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1351523
-Part 5- viewtopic.php?f=3&t=607803

The reason we don't specifically include CLE in this series of threads is they've long had their own discussion (and, if memory serves, theirs came first and this was a response/supplement to that for the other airports). The newest CLE thread isn't up as of the time of this post, but if you'd like to chat CLE here, however, feel free!
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
DeltaRules
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:06 pm

I noticed edits to the CMH Wikipedia page about the seasonal PHL and IAH mainline adds had been reverted (twice), which I didn't understand. That said, it looks like the A319 to IAH may have had its start date changed or even disappeared. Anybody know anything?

brooklynchris13 wrote:
Happy New Year Everyone! Amazing to think we are on the verge of 2020! The Columbus Dispatch did a story on the additional Alaska flight to SEA with the times and operational dates. Have to suspect this may stick around if it shows strong signs of life.

https://www.dispatch.com/business/20191 ... to-seattle

One item I was wondering about, and DeltaRules may have the answer, did that study ever show up about improving the gate utilization at CMH as an interim step to increasing capacity/improving operations. I think was that early in '19 when the CRAA mentioned it was going to be done but we have not seen anything come out yet to my knowledge.


I have no idea, but I'd love to hear the results.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
atbPy
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:39 am

DeltaRules wrote:
I noticed edits to the CMH Wikipedia page about the seasonal PHL and IAH mainline adds had been reverted (twice), which I didn't understand. That said, it looks like the A319 to IAH may have had its start date changed or even disappeared. Anybody know anything?


I still see the mainline to PHL via AA starting 2/13/2020. I don't see anything for IAH going to mainline. Checked through August.
 
StuckinCMHland
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:54 pm

Happy New Year everyone! Hopefully it's the start of the year when cmh gets TATL service!
 
CMHtraveler
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:12 pm

StuckinCMHland wrote:
Happy New Year everyone! Hopefully it's the start of the year when cmh gets TATL service!


Happy New Year all! I am less and less confident about CMH picking up TATL service in the short term as US airlines try ever harder to drive all traffic through a few mega hubs and foreign LCCs concentrating on TATL service face financial difficulties. That being said, perhaps Nardone can convince the business community to pony up. It sure would be nice to have BA come in and partner with AA to make use of the vacant lounge space as well!

On the domestic front I agree that WN is the likely candidate for links to the remaining adds like SAN and MCI, and that we won’t see those until the MAX situation is sorted. Perhaps F9 is a dark horse candidate for SAN, they do serve MKE seasonally and have shown a willingness to try unserved routes. Could we also potentially see DL add AUS given their attempt to build a presence there? In the meantime, happy to start the year with a second seasonal SEA flight, and see more upguages (hopeful the 319 to IAH is still on this year’s calendar for UA). Thanks to all who contribute to this thread!
 
jplatts
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:37 pm

WN adding CVG-DAL, CVG-HOU, CVG-LAS, and/or CVG-STL nonstop service might be possibilities once WN has more planes in its fleet with
(a) F9 discontinuing CVG-PHX nonstop service on April 21, 2020,
(b) F9 no longer serving AUS, IAH, SAT, and SFO nonstop from CVG,
(c) UA dropping CVG-SFO nonstop service on Friday,
(d) AA having fewer seats per day on its CVG-DFW route in Summer 2020 than in Summer 2019 due to AA having retired its MD-80's and AA flying A319's that have fewer seats than its MD-80's on its CVG-DFW route,
(e) UA no longer operating mainline aircraft on its CVG-IAH nonstop route,
and
(f) demand for WN service out of CVG expected to increase due to cuts and frequency reductions by F9, AA, and UA out of CVG.

While WN will be only operating CVG-PHX on a Saturday-only basis in March 2020, WN re-adding daily nonstop service to PHX from CVG is also a possibility with (a) F9 no longer having year-round nonstop service to CVG, (b) WN having a FF base in Greater Phoenix and Southern California to support CVG-PHX nonstop service, and (c) PHX being one of the top destinations without year-round daily nonstop service out of CVG.
 
jplatts
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:45 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
On the domestic front I agree that WN is the likely candidate for links to the remaining adds like SAN and MCI, and that we won’t see those until the MAX situation is sorted.


WN adding CMH-AUS nonstop service is also a possibility with WN having a customer base in both the CMH and AUS markets to support CMH-AUS nonstop service and with AUS being one of the top destinations not served nonstop from CMH.

WN adding CMH-RDU nonstop service might also be a possibility if DL drops CMH-RDU nonstop service since (a) WN still has significant market share at RDU, even with DL's RDU focus city and further expansion by F9 and NK at RDU, (b) there is probably enough demand for CMH-RDU nonstop service on WN if DL drops CMH-RDU nonstop service as the PDEW on CMH-RDU was 101 passengers per day in Q2 2019, and (c) F9 no longer serving RDU nonstop from CMH.
 
atbPy
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:49 am

I don't see much room for WN to expand if they don't get their MAX aircraft back up and running in 2020. I would like to see them add another route such as SAN in 2020.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:56 am

atbPy wrote:
I don't see much room for WN to expand if they don't get their MAX aircraft back up and running in 2020. I would like to see them add another route such as SAN in 2020.

Is there any room for WN to expand at CMH? A doesn’t seem like it can handle much more.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
atbPy
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:05 am

cledaybuck wrote:
atbPy wrote:
I don't see much room for WN to expand if they don't get their MAX aircraft back up and running in 2020. I would like to see them add another route such as SAN in 2020.

Is there any room for WN to expand at CMH? A doesn’t seem like it can handle much more.


There is an empty gate in A that just needs a jetbridge, but I am assuming that it is empty for a reason. They seem to do a good job of getting people in and out so they might be able to make it work with the number of gates they have. I sometimes see a WN plane parked near the Spirit gates at B.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:24 am

atbPy wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
atbPy wrote:
I don't see much room for WN to expand if they don't get their MAX aircraft back up and running in 2020. I would like to see them add another route such as SAN in 2020.

Is there any room for WN to expand at CMH? A doesn’t seem like it can handle much more.


There is an empty gate in A that just needs a jetbridge, but I am assuming that it is empty for a reason. They seem to do a good job of getting people in and out so they might be able to make it work with the number of gates they have. I sometimes see a WN plane parked near the Spirit gates at B.

Aside from the actual gates, A is just too small. The concourse isn’t wide enough, not enough seating, and the food options are lacking too.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
crjflyboy
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:36 am

cledaybuck wrote:
atbPy wrote:
I don't see much room for WN to expand if they don't get their MAX aircraft back up and running in 2020. I would like to see them add another route such as SAN in 2020.

Is there any room for WN to expand at CMH? A doesn’t seem like it can handle much more.


With what aircraft ... SWA bet the house on the MAX ... until that is solved, SWA will not expand anywhere
 
ncflyer
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:40 am

Furthermore WN flies to limited destinations out of SAN east of the Mississippi, apart from their hubs. CMH on the short list? Come on people!
 
crjflyboy
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:45 am

Will TOL get any flights going further west then ORD, or will FWA continue to poach more and more people from their catchment area?
 
avtcle
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:41 am

TOL is small but growing. Allegiant, though cutting VPS, is adding frequencies to all of its existing routes heading into summer 2020. Its an interesting little airport and I hope it keeps growing. I’d like to see Allegiant try a few different routes out of there. FLL, SRQ, PBI? There seems to be some low cost leisure demand out there.

I certainly hope the best for them. TOL has seen relatively impressive growth while being unfortunately positioned so close to FWA & DTW.
 
crjflyboy
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:31 am

TOL is a shell of it's former self

Service to PIT, MSP, CVG, MDW, IND, STL, DEN, ATL - plus many more ... all gone

TOL should offer free parking ... they can not possibly be making any money with 15 cars in their lot
 
flyCMH
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:08 pm

The free parking for all is an interesting proposal. I wonder how much revenue if any the PA receives from the operation of the lot. Maybe it would be better to just pay for the upkeep and offer the service for free in the hopes of uptick in passenger volume. That being said, a quick check of the airport's website shows very reasonable short and long term rates. Also, if you fly from TOL and have an international itinerary, you do qualify to have your parking comped, though it looks like several hoops have to be jumped before the reimbursement would be received.

Regarding air service at the local field, it looks like the core markets of ORD and CLT for AA and SFB, PIE, and PGD are doing well. According to this recently published article from the Blade, SFB and PIE service will be ramped up in 2020, despite the loss of service to VPS:

https://www.toledoblade.com/local/trans ... 0191205075

In 2020, it would be nice to see G4 take another crack at a new destination from TOL. Given the success of PIE and PGD, maybe a seasonal route to SRQ could work. I would love to see TOL-FLL, but the competition from DTW must be quite fierce. A route to AZA or LAS from TOL would be quite the coup. On the plus side with an all-Airbus fleet, the route is far more feasible that when the maddogs ruled the skies. However the stage length and competition from DTW are tough roadblocks.

American's schedule appears unchanged so far going into April 2020 with 3x to ORD and 2x to CLT, all on ER4s. It would be nice to see some larger RJs come back for the summer to either or both routes. A 4th frequency to ORD also wouldn't be out of the question. Of course, the addition of DFW back to the route map out of TOL would be phenomenal.

The addition of a 3rd airline to TOL would be an incredible accomplishment as well. While I'm not sure of the feasibility of a new carrier, potential candidates could be:

UA: they have been somewhat tit-for-tat with AA out of ORD in recent years. It would be an opportunity for United to tie things up a bit and tap the most solid city pair from Toledo. Though personally, I would love to see a flight to DEN. United has the regional fleet to make a flight work, and it would open up many new connection opportunities from TOL.

DL: while solidly entrenched in DTW, a 3x daily schedule to ATL mirroring FNT shouldn't be such a monumental task. Understood that the market dynamics in FNT are very different from TOL, particularly that the more affluent metro Detroit suburbs are more convenient to FNT, however TOL should be able to hold its own to the world's largest single-airline hub.

Everyone else: not sure what if any other airlines could potentially enter the TOL market. Spirit could potentially tackle some high density routes such as MCO and RSW, duplicating service at DTW and creating a scenario similar to CLE/CAK and PIT/LBE, but it would likely come at the expense of G4. The same would likely be said of a Frontier entry into the market. Sun Country could be a dark horse candidate to fly weekly service to MSP and vacation destinations from TOL. Alaska and jetBlue are not conversational non-starters, though Moxy could be worth pursuing depending on their yet-to-be-determined route strategy.

All in all, 2020 should be a year of neutral to slight growth at TOL, though the potential does exist for additional service to keep the passenger growth momentum going. Here's hoping for the best.
 
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flymco753
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:18 pm

flyCMH wrote:
The free parking for all is an interesting proposal. I wonder how much revenue if any the PA receives from the operation of the lot. Maybe it would be better to just pay for the upkeep and offer the service for free in the hopes of uptick in passenger volume. That being said, a quick check of the airport's website shows very reasonable short and long term rates. Also, if you fly from TOL and have an international itinerary, you do qualify to have your parking comped, though it looks like several hoops have to be jumped before the reimbursement would be received.

Regarding air service at the local field, it looks like the core markets of ORD and CLT for AA and SFB, PIE, and PGD are doing well. According to this recently published article from the Blade, SFB and PIE service will be ramped up in 2020, despite the loss of service to VPS:

https://www.toledoblade.com/local/trans ... 0191205075

In 2020, it would be nice to see G4 take another crack at a new destination from TOL. Given the success of PIE and PGD, maybe a seasonal route to SRQ could work. I would love to see TOL-FLL, but the competition from DTW must be quite fierce. A route to AZA or LAS from TOL would be quite the coup. On the plus side with an all-Airbus fleet, the route is far more feasible that when the maddogs ruled the skies. However the stage length and competition from DTW are tough roadblocks.

American's schedule appears unchanged so far going into April 2020 with 3x to ORD and 2x to CLT, all on ER4s. It would be nice to see some larger RJs come back for the summer to either or both routes. A 4th frequency to ORD also wouldn't be out of the question. Of course, the addition of DFW back to the route map out of TOL would be phenomenal.

The addition of a 3rd airline to TOL would be an incredible accomplishment as well. While I'm not sure of the feasibility of a new carrier, potential candidates could be:

UA: they have been somewhat tit-for-tat with AA out of ORD in recent years. It would be an opportunity for United to tie things up a bit and tap the most solid city pair from Toledo. Though personally, I would love to see a flight to DEN. United has the regional fleet to make a flight work, and it would open up many new connection opportunities from TOL.

DL: while solidly entrenched in DTW, a 3x daily schedule to ATL mirroring FNT shouldn't be such a monumental task. Understood that the market dynamics in FNT are very different from TOL, particularly that the more affluent metro Detroit suburbs are more convenient to FNT, however TOL should be able to hold its own to the world's largest single-airline hub.

Everyone else: not sure what if any other airlines could potentially enter the TOL market. Spirit could potentially tackle some high density routes such as MCO and RSW, duplicating service at DTW and creating a scenario similar to CLE/CAK and PIT/LBE, but it would likely come at the expense of G4. The same would likely be said of a Frontier entry into the market. Sun Country could be a dark horse candidate to fly weekly service to MSP and vacation destinations from TOL. Alaska and jetBlue are not conversational non-starters, though Moxy could be worth pursuing depending on their yet-to-be-determined route strategy.

All in all, 2020 should be a year of neutral to slight growth at TOL, though the potential does exist for additional service to keep the passenger growth momentum going. Here's hoping for the best.
TOL's growth is partially harmed by one common denominator. I think if DL, NK, and now F9 weren't so invested in DTW, they would be in TOL, that's what makes an airlines case so difficult to justify serving the market when they know they can get people to drive about 45 minutes north to catch a flight to virtually anywhere.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
flyCMH
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:13 pm

flymco753 wrote:
TOL's growth is partially harmed by one common denominator. I think if DL, NK, and now F9 weren't so invested in DTW, they would be in TOL, that's what makes an airlines case so difficult to justify serving the market when they know they can get people to drive about 45 minutes north to catch a flight to virtually anywhere.


Oh absolutely, but G4 and AA have proven, to an extent, that it's not an insurmountable feat to serve TOL. I do think possibilities for growth do exist despite the 10,000 lb gorilla up north, though they are limited.
 
flyinryan99
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:53 pm

crjflyboy wrote:
Will TOL get any flights going further west then ORD, or will FWA continue to poach more and more people from their catchment area?

First, FWA poaches very little from TOL - maybe some Allegiant traffic from the western catchment area - DTW takes a vast majority of it. Although, CLE seems to be taking more lately. As for going west, only option that has been talked about is DFW, but that has really tapered lately with AA having seen their CLT loads drop dramatically when they brought in CR7s. Of course, the 0500 flight killed a majority of that traffic.

avtcle wrote:
TOL is small but growing. Allegiant, though cutting VPS, is adding frequencies to all of its existing routes heading into summer 2020. Its an interesting little airport and I hope it keeps growing. I’d like to see Allegiant try a few different routes out of there. FLL, SRQ, PBI? There seems to be some low cost leisure demand out there.

I certainly hope the best for them. TOL has seen relatively impressive growth while being unfortunately positioned so close to FWA & DTW.


SRQ would probably be the only other logical candidate from Allegiant. The west side of Florida is where everyone from this area tends to gravitate towards. FLL and PBI are already covered with Delta and Spirit and Allegiant shies away from both of them in this market.

crjflyboy wrote:
TOL should offer free parking ... they can not possibly be making any money with 15 cars in their lot


No, this is their only real revenue generator for the airline terminal operation. They do not have tax revenue to fund anything other than the salaries of employees. I've argued they should increase the daily rate to $10 a day and make it like a maximum of $60 a week. This, in theory, with the higher concentration of business fliers out of TOL should raise revenues a bit more. I think even the offsite DTW parking sites are now over $10 a day too...

flyCMH wrote:
In 2020, it would be nice to see G4 take another crack at a new destination from TOL. Given the success of PIE and PGD, maybe a seasonal route to SRQ could work. I would love to see TOL-FLL, but the competition from DTW must be quite fierce. A route to AZA or LAS from TOL would be quite the coup. On the plus side with an all-Airbus fleet, the route is far more feasible that when the maddogs ruled the skies. However the stage length and competition from DTW are tough roadblocks.

American's schedule appears unchanged so far going into April 2020 with 3x to ORD and 2x to CLT, all on ER4s. It would be nice to see some larger RJs come back for the summer to either or both routes. A 4th frequency to ORD also wouldn't be out of the question. Of course, the addition of DFW back to the route map out of TOL would be phenomenal.

The addition of a 3rd airline to TOL would be an incredible accomplishment as well. While I'm not sure of the feasibility of a new carrier, potential candidates could be:

UA: they have been somewhat tit-for-tat with AA out of ORD in recent years. It would be an opportunity for United to tie things up a bit and tap the most solid city pair from Toledo. Though personally, I would love to see a flight to DEN. United has the regional fleet to make a flight work, and it would open up many new connection opportunities from TOL.

DL: while solidly entrenched in DTW, a 3x daily schedule to ATL mirroring FNT shouldn't be such a monumental task. Understood that the market dynamics in FNT are very different from TOL, particularly that the more affluent metro Detroit suburbs are more convenient to FNT, however TOL should be able to hold its own to the world's largest single-airline hub.

Everyone else: not sure what if any other airlines could potentially enter the TOL market. Spirit could potentially tackle some high density routes such as MCO and RSW, duplicating service at DTW and creating a scenario similar to CLE/CAK and PIT/LBE, but it would likely come at the expense of G4. The same would likely be said of a Frontier entry into the market. Sun Country could be a dark horse candidate to fly weekly service to MSP and vacation destinations from TOL. Alaska and jetBlue are not conversational non-starters, though Moxy could be worth pursuing depending on their yet-to-be-determined route strategy.

All in all, 2020 should be a year of neutral to slight growth at TOL, though the potential does exist for additional service to keep the passenger growth momentum going. Here's hoping for the best.


Great to hear from ya flyCMH! You hit some good points here and have pretty accurate understanding of what's going on here. :)

2020 is going to face some pretty stiff headwinds for TOL. First, the main guy who was leading charge for building and developing commercial air service left at the end of last month to take the air service development job at PIT. This has left no one in charge of trying to sell TOL or the area to airlines or hell any aviation company. I've been told the Port is hiring or increasing the responsibilities of their consultant but I can't even figure out who that is. Quite honestly, being involved (and trying to get more involved) over the past 10 years, I have no confidence things are going to improve. There's not much of a desire for the place from the BOD and there is really little aviation experience leading there and the experience they had there has now left. 2020 Capacity is so far looking flat over 2019, although this spring on Allegiant seems a bit better offset by 50 seaters on AA to CLT.

OK, off my soap box and looking towards opportunities. First, I'm not a fan of how Allegiant has looked at TOL. TOL seems to get, for the most part, the leftovers when scheduling. I really blame them for the reasons why MYR and VPS failed. They were both Mondays and Fridays and VPS had flights that departed out of TOL at like 10:00pm. If they wanted to make things work, more of a Wednesday/Saturday or Thursday/Sunday schedule would be much better. Even look at the summer schedule for SFB - they added more capacity, but it's Monday, Wednesday, Friday....VPS is actually a very popular place to vacation from in this area, but major complaints about the flight times that really doomed it. Their opportunities they could fly are LAS, AZA, BNA, SAV, and SRQ. LAS / AZA both have a ton of traffic from the area and actually perform really well out of DTW (at least I've been told) but they are still gun shy on going up against DTW. BNA and SAV don't have NK but healthy traffic flows. SRQ is located on the west side of Florida and would compliment PGD and PIE which flip flop between the top revenue performer out of TOL.

For American, I would really like to see them fortify their current routes before going to DFW, even though I think DFW would be a good fit here. I would like to see a mid afternoon departure to ORD (2:00pm time frame) and I would like to see an evening departure to CLT. Both of these I would like to see them start out on a 4x weekly basis (Sunday/Monday/Thursday/Friday). Incremental increases during the peak times would alleviate empty seats on the days that business travelers aren't traveling. I would love to see DFW on a 2x basis with CR7s (not just personally as work has taken me down there quite a bit lately), as I know business ties down that direction and passenger flows should keep it sustainable. I just don't know if they would be able to keep the F cabin full. Every time I flew a CLT flight, they only had a seat or two open...but then again I was complimentary upgraded too as a lowly Gold. Of course to fill all of this - AA has to price match DTW which they are very inconsistent at doing. Much the reason why AA has a year of full airplanes followed by a year of empty ones...

Something must have happened 30+ years ago when United up and left TOL. They have had no desire to come back to this airport at all. Quite honestly, a lot of their hubs make sense for traffic flows of this area and business ties including both DEN and IAH (even though DAY is losing IAH - wonder if they lost the Marathon contract?). DEN has always been a big destination from here. I would like to see them try 2x ORD and 2x IAD to test the waters here. This would give them good directional flows and give some potential international connections from here. I would really like to see them try DEN instead of ORD, but let's face it, they wouldn't overfly ORD just jumping into this market.

Delta, I don't think will be back as they can easily funnel all of their skymilers through DTW. Volume would be there to sustain ATL at 3x CR7s (or even 2x) but others on here have proclaimed Delta never made money at TOL, so I would just say we won't see them back unless a ULCC runs 3x daily A320s to ATL....(not gonna happen)

The only airline I would really want to hitch my wagon to is Sun Country. They wouldn't be already established in DTW and could easily run (operationally) weekly flights from RSW(2x), MCO(3x), MIA(2x). Run the planes MSP-XXX-TOL-XXX-MSP and overnight crews here. Get the Port to cover the overnight cost which I think could be covered by the increase in passenger revenue. Other then that, I don't see much hope for this area. Slow and steady growth would be nice, but it's been pulling teeth from both the airlines and buy in from the BOD to invest in anything for the airport...So what you see is what you get, not much will change, in my opinion...
 
ILNFlyer
Posts: 421
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:34 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:08 pm

The fare and subsequent decline in boarding woes at DAY continue:

Dayton also consistently ranks high for average air fares. In the most recent data available, Dayton’s average air fare during the second quarter of 2019 was $437.52, making it one of the most expensive of the 100 largest U.S. airports, according to data released by the Bureau of Transportation Statistics.Dayton’s main competitors are the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport, which had an average fare of $346.44, and Rickenbacker International Airport in Columbus, which had a $363.97 average fare. Among all U.S. airports the average domestic itinerary air fare was $364, according to federal data.“Price is the almighty determinant of a consumer’s decision to travel,” Swelbar said.

Without a significant LCC at DAY, this is going to continue to be the case, and flyers will continue to bleed off to CVG & CMH. What does DAY need to do to bring a regularly scheduled, non seasonal LCC presence?
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 136
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:58 pm

ncflyer wrote:
Furthermore WN flies to limited destinations out of SAN east of the Mississippi, apart from their hubs. CMH on the short list? Come on people!


Those limited destinations include seasonal IND. So while I wouldn’t say CMH is on any kind of short list (I don’t believe anyone has made that claim), there have been far more ridiculous suggested possibilities than the link up of two cities with a large WN presence on a route that is currently unserved (check out any DTW thread lol). That being said, not a chance until the MAX debacle is resolved.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5025
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:35 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
ncflyer wrote:
Furthermore WN flies to limited destinations out of SAN east of the Mississippi, apart from their hubs. CMH on the short list? Come on people!


Those limited destinations include seasonal IND. So while I wouldn’t say CMH is on any kind of short list (I don’t believe anyone has made that claim), there have been far more ridiculous suggested possibilities than the link up of two cities with a large WN presence on a route that is currently unserved (check out any DTW thread lol). That being said, not a chance until the MAX debacle is resolved.


Agreed, it's not out of the realm of possibility given WN serves almost 20 cities from CMH.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
jplatts
Posts: 3276
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:43 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
The fare and subsequent decline in boarding woes at DAY continue:

Dayton also consistently ranks high for average air fares. In the most recent data available, Dayton’s average air fare during the second quarter of 2019 was $437.52, making it one of the most expensive of the 100 largest U.S. airports, according to data released by the Bureau of Transportation Statistics.Dayton’s main competitors are the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport, which had an average fare of $346.44, and Rickenbacker International Airport in Columbus, which had a $363.97 average fare. Among all U.S. airports the average domestic itinerary air fare was $364, according to federal data.“Price is the almighty determinant of a consumer’s decision to travel,” Swelbar said.

Without a significant LCC at DAY, this is going to continue to be the case, and flyers will continue to bleed off to CVG & CMH. What does DAY need to do to bring a regularly scheduled, non seasonal LCC presence?


There are some travelers in Northern Cincinnati suburbs such as Middletown, Monroe, and Lebanon who are close enough to both DAY and CVG that would continue to choose CVG over DAY due to (a) F9 and WN serving CVG but not DAY, (b) DL frequent fliers with DL Medallion status in Northern Cincinnati suburbs who would choose DL out of CVG over connecting options out of DAY when flying to destinations other than ATL, DTW, or MSP, (c) AA serving MIA and PHX nonstop from CVG but not from DAY, (d) G4 having nonstop service out of CVG to destinations that aren't served nonstop out of DAY, and (d) UA dropping DAY-IAH and DAY-EWR nonstop service but continuing to serve IAH and EWR nonstop from CVG.

I think that it is going to be difficult for DAY to have a regularly scheduled, non-seasonal LCC presence due to
(a) the proximity of Northern Cincinnati suburbs to both DAY and CVG,
(b) the proximity of the Springfield, OH area to DAY, CMH, and LCK,
(c) the Wapakoneta/St. Mary's area being close enough to both DAY and FWA,
(d) the proximity of the Richmond, IN/Cambridge City, IN area to both DAY and IND,
(e) G4 already serving CVG, IND, FWA, and LCK in addition to DAY,
(f) WN and F9 already serving CVG, CMH, and IND,
(g) NK already serving CMH and IND,
(h) travelers in the Northern Cincinnati suburbs who would choose CVG over DAY, either due to DL elite status, nonstop options not available out of DAY, or connecting options on airlines that do not serve DAY,
(i) travelers in places such as Springfield, Wapakoneta, and Cambridge City that are within the DAY catchment area but close enough to CMH, LCK, FWA, or IND who might fly out of CMH, LCK, FWA, or IND instead of DAY,
and
(j) G4 having already reduced service out of DAY from year-round service to seasonal service.

A regularly scheduled, non-seasonal LCC presence out of DAY probably needs to come from a carrier such as NK, Moxy, or a new LCC startup that (a) doesn't currently serve CVG and FWA, (b) is primarily targeting its DAY operation towards travel to or from places within the Dayton-Springfield-Sidney CSA, (c) is committed to serving DAY on a year-round basis, and (d) can capture enough point-of-sale within the Dayton-Springfield-Sidney CSA.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3276
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:48 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
ncflyer wrote:
Furthermore WN flies to limited destinations out of SAN east of the Mississippi, apart from their hubs. CMH on the short list? Come on people!


Those limited destinations include seasonal IND. So while I wouldn’t say CMH is on any kind of short list (I don’t believe anyone has made that claim), there have been far more ridiculous suggested possibilities than the link up of two cities with a large WN presence on a route that is currently unserved (check out any DTW thread lol). That being said, not a chance until the MAX debacle is resolved.


Agreed, it's not out of the realm of possibility given WN serves almost 20 cities from CMH.


WN also already has nonstop service on at least a seasonal basis out of SAN to a few destinations east of CMH such as BWI, ORF, and MCO. WN also recently served EWR nonstop from SAN, but dropped EWR-SAN due to the 737 MAX grounding and WN pulling out of EWR.
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 136
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:28 am

Apparently Allegiant 2038 (LCK-SRQ) diverted to AVL yesterday after a cockpit indicator light came on. The A320 landed safely and pax deplaned at the gate. Aside from obviously being appreciative everyone is safe, as an anecdotal glance 151 pax on a random Thursday in January right after the busy holiday travel season is not too shabby at all! I hope it’s reflective of G4 finding success on the new route. They’ve carved out quite a little niche at Rickenbacker with 4 of their 5 departures yesterday headed to the sunshine state (SAV being the 5th).

https://www.10tv.com/article/allegiant- ... a-2020-jan
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2284
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:21 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
The fare and subsequent decline in boarding woes at DAY continue:

Without a significant LCC at DAY, this is going to continue to be the case, and flyers will continue to bleed off to CVG & CMH. What does DAY need to do to bring a regularly scheduled, non seasonal LCC presence?


That's a tough question. The air service paradigm shift that has occurred in the region has, unfortunately, left Dayton without a LCC/ULCC presence large enough to keep fares in check and attract from the larger catchment area as was the case before. In my opinion, DAY's best bet for increased low-cost service is continued reliance on Allegiant coupled with a strategy to attract Spirit. Allegiant might not ever have the critical mass in DAY to really affect air fares overall, but it can provide relief to some of the more price-sensitive destinations. A concentrated effort to convince Spirit to serve DAY would be a huge win for the airport. But they will need to prove the market viable for their brand of low cost service, despite existing operations on either side of I-70 and an already heavy ULCC presence in 3 airports within a 2-hour drive. As mentioned with TOL, Sun Country could be a dark horse candidate to MSP and vacation hot spots by catering to the Dayton metropolitan area while pulling from CMH, CVG, and IND without serving them directly. If Moxy takes to the skies, they could also be a saving grace to DAY's air fare woes, yet their air service strategy remains to be fully seen.

My hope was that the relatively sudden withdrawal of low cost airlines from DAY would result in increased service by the incumbent carriers - AA, DL, and UA. It seemed as that would be the case through 2018, however the recent losses of both EWR and IAH are particularly painful. While it is understood that UA can route those same passengers over existing hubs in ORD, DEN, and IAD, it is extremely disappointing that they can't make a nonstop to IAH or EWR. These are among the largest metropolitan areas and business hubs in the United States and the Dayton metro is still close to 1 million people - it is hard for me to fathom how UA cannot figure out how to make a nonstop to either destination from DAY viable. Hopefully UA remains true to their word and increases available seats to the remaining hubs as mentioned in this article:

https://www.daytondailynews.com/busines ... eE3hNg28J/

Delta is somewhat limited in what they can add from Dayton. The airport is pushing hard for a nonstop to Boston and Delta has made a huge push to increase their offerings from BOS - so one would think a nonstop between the two cities would be a logical add. The route was served by Delta in the mid-2000s as well, so there is a bit of history from which to draw. Not sure whether it will come to fruition this year, but it would certainly take some of the sting out of UA's recent drawbacks. Other than that, hopefully frequency increases and aircraft upgauges are in store for DL at DAY in 2020.

American has been a mixed bag at DAY. Unfortunately, the 3 daily maddogs to DFW have since been replaced by 4 large RJs. However the AA route network remains strong out of DAY, most likely thanks to PSA being headquartered there. A long shot could be a nonstop to MIA, which like BOS, was served from DAY in the mid-2000s. But also like BOS, it will take some convincing to have AA try the route again. As with DL, hopefully AA can continue to upgauge their aircraft offerings from DAY.

For 2020, I'm predicting a neutral year for DAY's pax counts with the UA losses made up by increased seats elsewhere. Though hopefully a well-deserved added destination will result in a slight uptick in passengers for the year.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5025
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:27 pm

flyCMH wrote:
ILNFlyer wrote:
The fare and subsequent decline in boarding woes at DAY continue:

Without a significant LCC at DAY, this is going to continue to be the case, and flyers will continue to bleed off to CVG & CMH. What does DAY need to do to bring a regularly scheduled, non seasonal LCC presence?


Delta is somewhat limited in what they can add from Dayton. The airport is pushing hard for a nonstop to Boston and Delta has made a huge push to increase their offerings from BOS - so one would think a nonstop between the two cities would be a logical add. The route was served by Delta in the mid-2000s as well, so there is a bit of history from which to draw. Not sure whether it will come to fruition this year, but it would certainly take some of the sting out of UA's recent drawbacks. Other than that, hopefully frequency increases and aircraft upgauges are in store for DL at DAY in 2020.


Here's what I'm wondering- what does DAY-ATL run on once the bigger M88s/M90s go? They've put a couple 717s on the route lately, but you'll see a 738 every now and then. Maybe they go with some combination of the two so it'll at least keep mainline, unlike DAY-DFW (thanks AA).
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
flyCMH
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:55 pm

I would imagine a mix of 738s and 717s would be the aircraft mix after the M88/M90 retirements. Maybe eventually the A220, but not until they've achieved some critical mass in and out of ATL, assuming they eventually make it to that hub.
 
flyinryan99
Posts: 1501
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 6:54 am

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:11 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
flyCMH wrote:
ILNFlyer wrote:
The fare and subsequent decline in boarding woes at DAY continue:

Without a significant LCC at DAY, this is going to continue to be the case, and flyers will continue to bleed off to CVG & CMH. What does DAY need to do to bring a regularly scheduled, non seasonal LCC presence?


Delta is somewhat limited in what they can add from Dayton. The airport is pushing hard for a nonstop to Boston and Delta has made a huge push to increase their offerings from BOS - so one would think a nonstop between the two cities would be a logical add. The route was served by Delta in the mid-2000s as well, so there is a bit of history from which to draw. Not sure whether it will come to fruition this year, but it would certainly take some of the sting out of UA's recent drawbacks. Other than that, hopefully frequency increases and aircraft upgauges are in store for DL at DAY in 2020.


Here's what I'm wondering- what does DAY-ATL run on once the bigger M88s/M90s go? They've put a couple 717s on the route lately, but you'll see a 738 every now and then. Maybe they go with some combination of the two so it'll at least keep mainline, unlike DAY-DFW (thanks AA).


I honestly think having PSA hurts the chances of mainline at DAY for AA. I know that DAY-DFW was moved to 4x E170s (I would argue better than A319s on the route) but with the poor performance with Mesa in DFW, PSA is now flying CR9s there now. Last I saw were at least 5 aircraft being routed through DFW with DAY being one of them. I think SAV and TYS are the other two cities.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:38 pm

Sinclair Community College and PSA are teaming up for a new A&P training center at DAY:
https://www.wdtn.com/video/sinclair-psa ... r/4215227/
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
jplatts
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:21 pm

flyCMH wrote:
Delta is somewhat limited in what they can add from Dayton. The airport is pushing hard for a nonstop to Boston and Delta has made a huge push to increase their offerings from BOS - so one would think a nonstop between the two cities would be a logical add. The route was served by Delta in the mid-2000s as well, so there is a bit of history from which to draw. Not sure whether it will come to fruition this year, but it would certainly take some of the sting out of UA's recent drawbacks. Other than that, hopefully frequency increases and aircraft upgauges are in store for DL at DAY in 2020.

American has been a mixed bag at DAY. Unfortunately, the 3 daily maddogs to DFW have since been replaced by 4 large RJs. However the AA route network remains strong out of DAY, most likely thanks to PSA being headquartered there. A long shot could be a nonstop to MIA, which like BOS, was served from DAY in the mid-2000s. But also like BOS, it will take some convincing to have AA try the route again. As with DL, hopefully AA can continue to upgauge their aircraft offerings from DAY.

For 2020, I'm predicting a neutral year for DAY's pax counts with the UA losses made up by increased seats elsewhere. Though hopefully a well-deserved added destination will result in a slight uptick in passengers for the year.


DL re-adding DAY-LGA nonstop service might be a possibility with UA discontinuing DAY-EWR nonstop service and with AA being the only carrier still serving the NYC market nonstop from DAY once UA ends DAY-EWR nonstop service. However, it has been mentioned that DL might have to drop some flights at LGA in order to accommodate LGA-YYZ nonstop service if WS is required to divest its LGA slots to get the DL-WS joint venture approved.

In addition to PSA being headquartered at DAY, AA is currently facing a mainline narrowbody plane shortage due to the retirement of its MD-80's and the 737 MAX grounding. AA re-adding mainline DFW-DAY nonstop flights probably won't happen until AA has more narrowbody planes in its mainline fleet.

I agree that AA re-adding DAY-MIA nonstop service and DL re-adding DAY-BOS nonstop service are both possibilities. In addition, G4 adding less-than-daily seasonal nonstop service to FLL from DAY is also a possibility.
 
CMHtraveler
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:52 am

DeltaRules wrote:
Here's what I'm wondering- what does DAY-ATL run on once the bigger M88s/M90s go? They've put a couple 717s on the route lately, but you'll see a 738 every now and then. Maybe they go with some combination of the two so it'll at least keep mainline, unlike DAY-DFW (thanks AA).


Interestingly, the DL website shows DAY-ATL running on M88s (with the occasional 717) for as far out as the schedule has been made bookable (Nov 29). By contrast, the mad dogs appear on CMH-ATL only through August; beginning Sept 1 they are entirely replaced with a 738/739 mix.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:39 pm

I'm not sure if this was covered, but one of the charter flights back from the Fiesta Bowl (presumably the Eastern 763) had to return to PHX due to a latch which had become opened in flight.

Maintenance delays both ways isn't a good look.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
jplatts
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:14 pm

There are a few adds that could be made by DL out of CVG, including the following:
(a) CVG-AUS, CVG-DFW, and CVG-RDU nonstop service upgauged to mainline,
(b) The return of CVG-PDX, CVG-SAT, and CVG-SAN nonstop service, and
(c) CVG-PHX nonstop service extended to year-round

There is likely enough demand to fill an regional jet on CVG-SAT as the PDEW on CVG-SAT was 70 passengers per day in Q2 2019. There would also probably be some passengers connecting to East Coast destinations not currently served nonstop from SAT such as BOS and LGA through CVG on DL if DL re-adds CVG-SAT nonstop service.

While the PDEW on CVG-PDX was only 63 passengers per day in Q2 2019, DL might be able to easily fill an A220-100 on CVG-PDX if DL re-adds CVG-PDX due to connections to Paris and U.S. East Coast destinations on the CVG end. Someone in the Oregon Aviation Thread even mentioned DL possibly scheduling CVG-PDX nonstop flights to allow passengers to connect onto DL's PDX-HND nonstop flight if DL re-adds CVG-PDX nonstop service.

The lack of year-round nonstop service to PHX out of CVG is a huge hole with the PDEW of CVG-PHX/AZA being 271 passengers per day in Q2 2019, and DL extending CVG-PHX nonstop service might be a possibility with F9 discontinuing CVG-PHX nonstop service on April 21st instead of continuing CVG-PHX nonstop service past April as in past years. DL operating regional jets on CVG-PHX might also be a possibility with OO already operating DL Connection SEA-MKE nonstop service (which is a longer route than CVG-PHX) on E-175 regional jets.

DL could upgauge CVG-AUS and CVG-RDU nonstop service to A220's since (a) F9 no longer serves AUS and RDU nonstop from CVG and (b) CVG-AUS and CVG-RDU are two of the top routes out of CVG that don't currently have mainline on DL.

DL upgauging CVG-DFW to A220's is a possibility due to DL already operating mainline aircraft on all of its other nonstop routes out of DFW.
 
CMHtraveler
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:10 pm

It must be flashback Friday at CMH because we’re scheduled to see (and hear!) some 737-200 action this afternoon courtesy of Ameristar Jet Charters. We see 734 charters fairly regularly (Swift etc...) but does anyone recall the last 732 at CMH? Any info on this short hop to Bloomington, IN (BMG)?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AJI ... /KCMH/KBMG

EDIT: the OSU bus just pulled up, must be a sports charter. That’s a short trip to fly as opposed to driving!
 
DeltaRules
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:49 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
It must be flashback Friday at CMH because we’re scheduled to see (and hear!) some 737-200 action this afternoon courtesy of Ameristar Jet Charters. We see 734 charters fairly regularly (Swift etc...) but does anyone recall the last 732 at CMH? Any info on this short hop to Bloomington, IN (BMG)?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AJI ... /KCMH/KBMG

EDIT: the OSU bus just pulled up, must be a sports charter. That’s a short trip to fly as opposed to driving!


Last scheduled or charter 732? I was in DAB waiting on a rocket launch in 2016 and saw two Sierra Pacific 732s doing college football charters, so those might have been in/out at some point, but that might be about it.

I'd assume DL would've been the last scheduled 732.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
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Harvestman
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:10 pm

Is N792AX still stored (or being parted out) at ILN? Google StreetView shows it parked on the ramp this past June with a missing nose cone, but when I visited in late August I did not see it.
 
ABissonnette
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:29 pm

Anybody know the final numbers for CVG in 2019? I'm pretty surprised that CVG hasn't released the total number of pax in 2019 yet......


Additionally, does anyone know why United has downgraded most CVG-DEN flights to ERJ-170s? Back a few months ago, all flights were mainline with 738s and A320s. I fly that route pretty often and know that the mainline flights were almost always sold out. On the ERJ-170s, there are no seats available lol



Thanks,
Andrew
Andrew
Canon T4i - 75-300mm
 
flyguy89
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:50 pm

ABissonnette wrote:
Anybody know the final numbers for CVG in 2019? I'm pretty surprised that CVG hasn't released the total number of pax in 2019 yet......

Not yet. They usually release their numbers around mid-month for the preceding month. Should be out soon though. I believe CVG will just pass the 9 million pax mark for 2019.


ABissonnette wrote:
Additionally, does anyone know why United has downgraded most CVG-DEN flights to ERJ-170s? Back a few months ago, all flights were mainline with 738s and A320s. I fly that route pretty often and know that the mainline flights were almost always sold out. On the ERJ-170s, there are no seats available lol

Admittedly I don't pay attention to all the schedule changes at CVG, but my understanding of UA on CVG-DEN is that the mainline has always been summer seasonal. Looks like mainline UA service returns to the route in June. It really stuns me how much capacity that route seems to maintain with a peak of 6 daily flights across 5 different carriers.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:28 am

Since we adopted it as one of "our" airports, does anyone know how Contour is doing with PKB-BKW-CLT? I pulled random dates in January and they're offering $29 o/w on your choice of days to and from Charlotte; by comparison, AA CMH-CLT on the same day is $579.

If I had more free time, I'd be all over revisiting the CLT joyride I'd booked in 2016 with Via Air (which was cancelled due to the Brasilia (the real reason I was going) breaking the afternoon before). Contour seems to have its stuff more together than Via given their network and operation.
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Shields
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:49 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:00 pm

With thanks to Enilria, DL - CVG-BOS goes 5x soon. All five frequencies are the 717. Nice surprise to see this much mainline metal on the route. It is interesting, though, that Boston can sustain this much capacity, yet DL's CVG-LGA is all Endeavor CR9. Moreover, it appears DL is no longer running 717s on CVG-DCA during the summer season... all Endeavor.
 
atbPy
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:00 pm

Anyone know the reason why OSU uses LCK for their football charters, but all other sports use CMH? Even the opponents come in through CMH same with Blue Jackets.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3132
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:46 pm

atbPy wrote:
Anyone know the reason why OSU uses LCK for their football charters, but all other sports use CMH? Even the opponents come in through CMH same with Blue Jackets.


I don’t know what airline everyone uses there but in STL it seems to be an airline thing on which airport is used. UA always uses STL. DL always uses CPS. Etc.
 
CMHtraveler
Posts: 136
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:37 pm

Something for almost everyone on the thread in today’s massive G4 expansion:

Cincinnati (CVG) gets seasonal MEM
Dayton (DAY) gets seasonal VPS
Columbus (LCK) gets seasonal ORF
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3208
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:44 pm

Shields wrote:
With thanks to Enilria, DL - CVG-BOS goes 5x soon. All five frequencies are the 717. Nice surprise to see this much mainline metal on the route. It is interesting, though, that Boston can sustain this much capacity, yet DL's CVG-LGA is all Endeavor CR9. Moreover, it appears DL is no longer running 717s on CVG-DCA during the summer season... all Endeavor.


For what it's worth, you'll see more Endeavor than any other regional going forward at CVG for DL, because they're opening a crew base there, on top of them having a large MX facility there as well.
From my cold, dead hands
 
jplatts
Posts: 3276
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Ohio - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:07 pm

While G4 hasn't yet added CVG-HOU nonstop service, G4 had announced that it is going to be starting service out of HOU starting on May 21st. G4's initial routes out of HOU to TYS, AVL, SAV, and VPS are all to leisure destinations in the Southeast that aren't currently served by WN.

G4 adding CVG-HOU nonstop service might be a possibility with HOU being much closer to the Johnson Space Center, Kemah, and Galveston than IAH is. The IAH/HOU market also doesn't currently have any nonstop LCC service from CVG.

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