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Blerg
Posts: 4150
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:43 am

intrance wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Hopefully someone takes a picture of Warsaw with all the planes grounded there though I assume other airports will be used as well?
I’m flying out of Warsaw tonight, will be interesting how it looks :P.


Try to take a picture for us if you don't mind, I wonder if they will use the taxiways as parking. I guess Wizz Air will move its planes to Budapest for storage?
 
tomgle
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:20 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:36 pm

SRQLOT wrote:
Well this is BREAKING NEWS!!!

LOT will stop all international and domestic flights from Poland and Hungry for 10 DAYS!!!! Starting March 15.

This is the cause of Polish government closing down borders.

In polish.
https://www.rynek-lotniczy.pl/mobile/lo ... -8072.html

Just curious, will the VNO-LCY route keep going for now then?
 
Blerg
Posts: 4150
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:55 pm

tomgle wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:
Well this is BREAKING NEWS!!!

LOT will stop all international and domestic flights from Poland and Hungry for 10 DAYS!!!! Starting March 15.

This is the cause of Polish government closing down borders.

In polish.
https://www.rynek-lotniczy.pl/mobile/lo ... -8072.html

Just curious, will the VNO-LCY route keep going for now then?


My guess is no as I believe that route is operated as a W pattern with a plane based in Warsaw.
 
parrotta
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:51 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:41 pm

Blerg wrote:
intrance wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Hopefully someone takes a picture of Warsaw with all the planes grounded there though I assume other airports will be used as well?
I’m flying out of Warsaw tonight, will be interesting how it looks :P.


Try to take a picture for us if you don't mind, I wonder if they will use the taxiways as parking. I guess Wizz Air will move its planes to Budapest for storage?


Seems some wizz planes will be sitting in Poland during the lock down.They are not needed elsewhere anyway
 
pdp
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:14 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:50 pm

Blerg wrote:
intrance wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Hopefully someone takes a picture of Warsaw with all the planes grounded there though I assume other airports will be used as well?
I’m flying out of Warsaw tonight, will be interesting how it looks :P.


Try to take a picture for us if you don't mind, I wonder if they will use the taxiways as parking. I guess Wizz Air will move its planes to Budapest for storage?


More likely regional airports like Łódź, Rzeszów and Lublin where parking will be cheaper and more plentiful.
 
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intrance
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:38 pm

Warsaw apron is pretty empty right now actually. But three Dreamliners parked on taxiway B6, the mostly unused loop on the left side of RW33 threshold. Otherwise plenty of space at this very moment.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4150
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:28 pm

intrance wrote:
Warsaw apron is pretty empty right now actually. But three Dreamliners parked on taxiway B6, the mostly unused loop on the left side of RW33 threshold. Otherwise plenty of space at this very moment.


What about the terminal, is it empty? Are there many passengers and flights?
 
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intrance
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:35 pm

Blerg wrote:
What about the terminal, is it empty? Are there many passengers and flights?
Don't know, I was crew just flying in and out, spent my time in the plane. My flight was pretty full. Probably a bunch of people taking the last chance for the next days to get to where they need to go.

Quite a few LOT flights still went outbound by the way, so I guess they will come back as ferries or possibly charters to get Polish nationals home. Apron and parking space seemed pretty much normal for the two hours I was there, aside from those parked on B6 and perhaps the odd pax plane parked on the cargo apron. Anyway, interesting times to be alive.
 
Blerg
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Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:20 am

intrance wrote:
Blerg wrote:
What about the terminal, is it empty? Are there many passengers and flights?
Don't know, I was crew just flying in and out, spent my time in the plane. My flight was pretty full. Probably a bunch of people taking the last chance for the next days to get to where they need to go.

Quite a few LOT flights still went outbound by the way, so I guess they will come back as ferries or possibly charters to get Polish nationals home. Apron and parking space seemed pretty much normal for the two hours I was there, aside from those parked on B6 and perhaps the odd pax plane parked on the cargo apron. Anyway, interesting times to be alive.


Thank you for the updated, was really interesting to read about it.
 
artflyer
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:46 am

Suspension of international passenger flights to/from Poland that started yesterday will last until and including 28 March. Initially, it was rumoured to last only 10 days, but the original government decision already foresees 14 days. On top of that LO suspended all domestic flights and flights to/from BUD and VNO. Exceptions from the suspension include among others previously organised charter flights to Poland, so to enable Polish tourists abroad to come back home on their original charters, and any charters organised by foreign governments to enable their citizens leave Poland.

The Polish goverment is now also chartering LO to enable Poles to come back home (#LOTdoDomu, which means "flight back home"). The government estimate is that between 200k and 500k pax will want to use this service. The tickets are being sold online via LO's website. Via this channel people can also notify the government of the demand, so that flights to appropriate destinations can be organised around the time that would suit best.

The number of seats that were to be offered by LO on its scheduled flights during the 10 days of the initially rumoured flight suspension was 375.5k pax.

Cargo flights are unaffected. The same with rail cargo and truck cargo.
 
factsonly
Posts: 2977
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:09 am

LOT seems to be flying multiple B787 WAW-EU flights today to repatriate citizens:

- LO8637 WAW - BCN B789 SP-LSA
- LO8703 WAW - LHR B788 SP-LRE
- LO B788 WAW-LHR 2nd flight
 
tomgle
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:20 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:46 pm

LHRLAXSYD wrote:
Hilarious. The Polish government closed the borders effectively grounding the entire air transport network which invalidated all commercial tickets to and from the country only to announce the same day that 'repatriation charter flights' solely operated by LOT will take place. Lucky passengers who hit the lottery will kindly pay a premium for the privilege of being onboard a LOT aircraft that in many instances they would have been on anyway. Eastern European creativity would have been funny if it wasn't so sad.
They won't be 'paying a premium', the prices of the tickets are set to cover the cost of operating the flight, and are subsidised by the government. I guess they could have contracted other airlines to operate the repatriation flights, e.g. enter air, to make the operation seem a bit fairer, but I haven't seen anyone share your opinion, so I don't think this is really the issue at the forefront of people's minds. Also, Poland is far from the only country to close borders, and even without doing so, planes were flying very empty, so odds are most flights would have been cancelled sooner than later anyway. The bigger issue with these flights is the questionable logic of putting lots of people very close together, while the rest of the country is shut down to prevent this kind of situation. There have also been reports that crews are inadequately equipped to prevent infection, e.g. lack of masks and disinfectant.
(Sources in Polish): https://tvn24.pl/polska/dworczyk-blisko ... mu-4354528
https://tvn24bis.pl/z-kraju,74/koronawi ... 09141.html
 
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intrance
Posts: 96
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Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:12 pm

tomgle wrote:
They won't be 'paying a premium', the prices of the tickets are set to cover the cost of operating the flight, and are subsidised by the government.l


I think what you are missing here is that many pax who would like to be repatriated probably had tickets on LOT flights that got cancelled because of the decision to close the borders. Perhaps even not getting refunds as airlines and insurance companies will be very happy to claim force majeure. And then getting to pay again to have a seat on a repatriation flight.
 
tomgle
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:20 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:31 pm

intrance wrote:
tomgle wrote:
They won't be 'paying a premium', the prices of the tickets are set to cover the cost of operating the flight, and are subsidised by the government.l


I think what you are missing here is that many pax who would like to be repatriated probably had tickets on LOT flights that got cancelled because of the decision to close the borders. Perhaps even not getting refunds as airlines and insurance companies will be very happy to claim force majeure. And then getting to pay again to have a seat on a repatriation flight.
I get that, but wouldn’t passengers (at least those who had tickets on LOT flights) be entitled to refunds? Prior to the full suspension LOT were allowing cancellations and changes for no fee, so hopefully they would extend this policy to flights cancelled due to the current suspension. It would actually be interesting to see if this is the case. As for those who had flights booked on other airlines, especially low cost carriers like FR or W6, it is indeed a bigger issue, as those flights were usually substantially cheaper than the prices of the tickets for the new flights. I’ve heard that in some cases Polish consulates will be able to give loans to help people pay to return to Poland. Not ideal, but better than nothing. LOT and the government should come up with a better solution, as the prices I saw, especially for European flights, were pretty expensive compared to usual fares, especially on LCC’s, and even compared to some of LOT’s.
Also, apologies if this post and my previous one have seemed a bit like a rant, but LHRLAXSYD’s post seemed to imply that the gov’t only closed borders and organised these repatriation flights as a way to make a quick buck for LOT. Now I’m usually pretty critical of this government, but I’m sure that that was not their motivation for the actions that they took.
Last edited by tomgle on Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
thepinkmachine
Posts: 425
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:43 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:32 pm

intrance wrote:

I think what you are missing here is that many pax who would like to be repatriated probably had tickets on LOT flights that got cancelled because of the decision to close the borders. Perhaps even not getting refunds as airlines and insurance companies will be very happy to claim force majeure. And then getting to pay again to have a seat on a repatriation flight.


PAX who already had bought a ticket for LOT flight may rebook on repatriation flights free of charge.
"Tell my wife I am trawling Atlantis - and I still have my hands on the wheel…"
 
LHRLAXSYD
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:41 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:28 pm

tomgle wrote:
intrance wrote:
tomgle wrote:
They won't be 'paying a premium', the prices of the tickets are set to cover the cost of operating the flight, and are subsidised by the government.l


I think what you are missing here is that many pax who would like to be repatriated probably had tickets on LOT flights that got cancelled because of the decision to close the borders. Perhaps even not getting refunds as airlines and insurance companies will be very happy to claim force majeure. And then getting to pay again to have a seat on a repatriation flight.
I get that, but wouldn’t passengers (at least those who had tickets on LOT flights) be entitled to refunds? Prior to the full suspension LOT were allowing cancellations and changes for no fee, so hopefully they would extend this policy to flights cancelled due to the current suspension. It would actually be interesting to see if this is the case. As for those who had flights booked on other airlines, especially low cost carriers like FR or W6, it is indeed a bigger issue, as those flights were usually substantially cheaper than the prices of the tickets for the new flights. I’ve heard that in some cases Polish consulates will be able to give loans to help people pay to return to Poland. Not ideal, but better than nothing. LOT and the government should come up with a better solution, as the prices I saw, especially for European flights, were pretty expensive compared to usual fares, especially on LCC’s, and even compared to some of LOT’s.
Also, apologies if this post and my previous one have seemed a bit like a rant, but LHRLAXSYD’s post seemed to imply that the gov’t only closed borders and organised these repatriation flights as a way to make a quick buck for LOT. Now I’m usually pretty critical of this government, but I’m sure that that was not their motivation for the actions that they took.


You've just contradicted yourself by denying passengers aren't paying a premium for a seat on a chartered flight while at the same time admitting Wizzair, Ryanair and even LOT would have been cheaper.

Ceasing commercial air travel and operating premium charter flights on both the outbound and inbound at the same time is idiotic from both a financial and disease control perspective.
 
artflyer
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:34 pm

LHRLAXSYD wrote:
tomgle wrote:
intrance wrote:

I think what you are missing here is that many pax who would like to be repatriated probably had tickets on LOT flights that got cancelled because of the decision to close the borders. Perhaps even not getting refunds as airlines and insurance companies will be very happy to claim force majeure. And then getting to pay again to have a seat on a repatriation flight.
I get that, but wouldn’t passengers (at least those who had tickets on LOT flights) be entitled to refunds? Prior to the full suspension LOT were allowing cancellations and changes for no fee, so hopefully they would extend this policy to flights cancelled due to the current suspension. It would actually be interesting to see if this is the case. As for those who had flights booked on other airlines, especially low cost carriers like FR or W6, it is indeed a bigger issue, as those flights were usually substantially cheaper than the prices of the tickets for the new flights. I’ve heard that in some cases Polish consulates will be able to give loans to help people pay to return to Poland. Not ideal, but better than nothing. LOT and the government should come up with a better solution, as the prices I saw, especially for European flights, were pretty expensive compared to usual fares, especially on LCC’s, and even compared to some of LOT’s.
Also, apologies if this post and my previous one have seemed a bit like a rant, but LHRLAXSYD’s post seemed to imply that the gov’t only closed borders and organised these repatriation flights as a way to make a quick buck for LOT. Now I’m usually pretty critical of this government, but I’m sure that that was not their motivation for the actions that they took.


You've just contradicted yourself by denying passengers aren't paying a premium for a seat on a chartered flight while at the same time admitting Wizzair, Ryanair and even LOT would have been cheaper.

Ceasing commercial air travel and operating premium charter flights on both the outbound and inbound at the same time is idiotic from both a financial and disease control perspective.


Pax with a LO ticket for a scheduled flight with a date falling during flight suspension may at its election: a) get a full refund, b) get a voucher, c) reschedule for a scheduled flight with a date falling after resumption of scheduled flights without any fee (subject to some restrictions), d) without any fee exchange for a ticket on a charter flight.

It means that if a pax wishes so, it may get a refund of the existing ticket and buy himself a new ticket on a charter flight, if that would be cheaper for him. The pax may also use the existing ticket to exchange it for a ticket for a charter flight and this without any additional payment, if that would be cheaper for him.

There are no pax on the outbound flight, only on the inbound flight. I expect part of that cost is met by tax money, and the rest by the cost of the inbound ticket.

It would be really difficult to organise this with any other airline (including Enter Air as the top pick probably), having in mind a) a vast majority of flights is longhaul, b) it was organised virtually overnight. Your company should have volunteered and we would then see how it went.

Overall the amount of flights as for now is fairly limited. We shall see how it progresses.
 
LHRLAXSYD
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:41 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:28 pm

artflyer wrote:
LHRLAXSYD wrote:
tomgle wrote:
I get that, but wouldn’t passengers (at least those who had tickets on LOT flights) be entitled to refunds? Prior to the full suspension LOT were allowing cancellations and changes for no fee, so hopefully they would extend this policy to flights cancelled due to the current suspension. It would actually be interesting to see if this is the case. As for those who had flights booked on other airlines, especially low cost carriers like FR or W6, it is indeed a bigger issue, as those flights were usually substantially cheaper than the prices of the tickets for the new flights. I’ve heard that in some cases Polish consulates will be able to give loans to help people pay to return to Poland. Not ideal, but better than nothing. LOT and the government should come up with a better solution, as the prices I saw, especially for European flights, were pretty expensive compared to usual fares, especially on LCC’s, and even compared to some of LOT’s.
Also, apologies if this post and my previous one have seemed a bit like a rant, but LHRLAXSYD’s post seemed to imply that the gov’t only closed borders and organised these repatriation flights as a way to make a quick buck for LOT. Now I’m usually pretty critical of this government, but I’m sure that that was not their motivation for the actions that they took.


You've just contradicted yourself by denying passengers aren't paying a premium for a seat on a chartered flight while at the same time admitting Wizzair, Ryanair and even LOT would have been cheaper.

Ceasing commercial air travel and operating premium charter flights on both the outbound and inbound at the same time is idiotic from both a financial and disease control perspective.


Pax with a LO ticket for a scheduled flight with a date falling during flight suspension may at its election: a) get a full refund, b) get a voucher, c) reschedule for a scheduled flight with a date falling after resumption of scheduled flights without any fee (subject to some restrictions), d) without any fee exchange for a ticket on a charter flight.

It means that if a pax wishes so, it may get a refund of the existing ticket and buy himself a new ticket on a charter flight, if that would be cheaper for him. The pax may also use the existing ticket to exchange it for a ticket for a charter flight and this without any additional payment, if that would be cheaper for him.

There are no pax on the outbound flight, only on the inbound flight. I expect part of that cost is met by tax money, and the rest by the cost of the inbound ticket.

It would be really difficult to organise this with any other airline (including Enter Air as the top pick probably), having in mind a) a vast majority of flights is longhaul, b) it was organised virtually overnight. Your company should have volunteered and we would then see how it went.

Overall the amount of flights as for now is fairly limited. We shall see how it progresses.


Fantastic, so can you explain how does grounding commercial flights and operating charter flights on the same routes help to stop the spread of the virus?
 
artflyer
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:26 am

LHRLAXSYD wrote:
artflyer wrote:
LHRLAXSYD wrote:

You've just contradicted yourself by denying passengers aren't paying a premium for a seat on a chartered flight while at the same time admitting Wizzair, Ryanair and even LOT would have been cheaper.

Ceasing commercial air travel and operating premium charter flights on both the outbound and inbound at the same time is idiotic from both a financial and disease control perspective.


Pax with a LO ticket for a scheduled flight with a date falling during flight suspension may at its election: a) get a full refund, b) get a voucher, c) reschedule for a scheduled flight with a date falling after resumption of scheduled flights without any fee (subject to some restrictions), d) without any fee exchange for a ticket on a charter flight.

It means that if a pax wishes so, it may get a refund of the existing ticket and buy himself a new ticket on a charter flight, if that would be cheaper for him. The pax may also use the existing ticket to exchange it for a ticket for a charter flight and this without any additional payment, if that would be cheaper for him.

There are no pax on the outbound flight, only on the inbound flight. I expect part of that cost is met by tax money, and the rest by the cost of the inbound ticket.

It would be really difficult to organise this with any other airline (including Enter Air as the top pick probably), having in mind a) a vast majority of flights is longhaul, b) it was organised virtually overnight. Your company should have volunteered and we would then see how it went.

Overall the amount of flights as for now is fairly limited. We shall see how it progresses.


Fantastic, so can you explain how does grounding commercial flights and operating charter flights on the same routes help to stop the spread of the virus?


I see that you registered on a.net to have this discussion, so I am happy that I can help.

If scheduled flights were to continue, there would be no way to disallow Poles leaving the country by air for vacations etc. I guess the government wanted to avoid a situation where large groups, just because they booked holidays all around the globe, including Spain, Italy and similarily affected places, continue to voyage and then return home potentially bringing more problems. Under Polish constitution there is no way to ban a Pole from entering a country. So organising it this way was for me a way to cut off outbound flights and tell people to stay at home.

On a separate point the charter flights repatriate Poles also from places where there were no direct scheduled flights from Poland like Vietnam. With scheduled flights limited all around the globe, transfering could now be both a challange and a risk of being stuck somewhere in the middle.
 
LHRLAXSYD
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:41 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:56 am

artflyer wrote:
LHRLAXSYD wrote:
artflyer wrote:

Pax with a LO ticket for a scheduled flight with a date falling during flight suspension may at its election: a) get a full refund, b) get a voucher, c) reschedule for a scheduled flight with a date falling after resumption of scheduled flights without any fee (subject to some restrictions), d) without any fee exchange for a ticket on a charter flight.

It means that if a pax wishes so, it may get a refund of the existing ticket and buy himself a new ticket on a charter flight, if that would be cheaper for him. The pax may also use the existing ticket to exchange it for a ticket for a charter flight and this without any additional payment, if that would be cheaper for him.

There are no pax on the outbound flight, only on the inbound flight. I expect part of that cost is met by tax money, and the rest by the cost of the inbound ticket.

It would be really difficult to organise this with any other airline (including Enter Air as the top pick probably), having in mind a) a vast majority of flights is longhaul, b) it was organised virtually overnight. Your company should have volunteered and we would then see how it went.

Overall the amount of flights as for now is fairly limited. We shall see how it progresses.


Fantastic, so can you explain how does grounding commercial flights and operating charter flights on the same routes help to stop the spread of the virus?


I see that you registered on a.net to have this discussion, so I am happy that I can help.

If scheduled flights were to continue, there would be no way to disallow Poles leaving the country by air for vacations etc. I guess the government wanted to avoid a situation where large groups, just because they booked holidays all around the globe, including Spain, Italy and similarily affected places, continue to voyage and then return home potentially bringing more problems. Under Polish constitution there is no way to ban a Pole from entering a country. So organising it this way was for me a way to cut off outbound flights and tell people to stay at home.

On a separate point the charter flights repatriate Poles also from places where there were no direct scheduled flights from Poland like Vietnam. With scheduled flights limited all around the globe, transfering could now be both a challange and a risk of being stuck somewhere in the middle.


You can close the borders without grounding air travel simply by restricting the transport to inbound Polish citizens and Polish permanent residents? Like the rest of the world does? Or is that too difficult to comprehend for an average person?
 
artflyer
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:02 pm

LHRLAXSYD wrote:
artflyer wrote:
LHRLAXSYD wrote:

Fantastic, so can you explain how does grounding commercial flights and operating charter flights on the same routes help to stop the spread of the virus?


I see that you registered on a.net to have this discussion, so I am happy that I can help.

If scheduled flights were to continue, there would be no way to disallow Poles leaving the country by air for vacations etc. I guess the government wanted to avoid a situation where large groups, just because they booked holidays all around the globe, including Spain, Italy and similarily affected places, continue to voyage and then return home potentially bringing more problems. Under Polish constitution there is no way to ban a Pole from entering a country. So organising it this way was for me a way to cut off outbound flights and tell people to stay at home.

On a separate point the charter flights repatriate Poles also from places where there were no direct scheduled flights from Poland like Vietnam. With scheduled flights limited all around the globe, transfering could now be both a challange and a risk of being stuck somewhere in the middle.


You can close the borders without grounding air travel simply by restricting the transport to inbound Polish citizens and Polish permanent residents? Like the rest of the world does? Or is that too difficult to comprehend for an average person?


You cannot restrict an airline from selling tickets to Poles on outbound scheduled flights, when it is totally legal for them to leave the country. Border is closed, but only for incoming foreigners and not for incoming or outcoming Poles. The only way is to take that opportunity away from them. I hope it is not too difficult to comprehend.
 
LHRLAXSYD
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:41 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:30 pm

artflyer wrote:
LHRLAXSYD wrote:
artflyer wrote:

I see that you registered on a.net to have this discussion, so I am happy that I can help.

If scheduled flights were to continue, there would be no way to disallow Poles leaving the country by air for vacations etc. I guess the government wanted to avoid a situation where large groups, just because they booked holidays all around the globe, including Spain, Italy and similarily affected places, continue to voyage and then return home potentially bringing more problems. Under Polish constitution there is no way to ban a Pole from entering a country. So organising it this way was for me a way to cut off outbound flights and tell people to stay at home.

On a separate point the charter flights repatriate Poles also from places where there were no direct scheduled flights from Poland like Vietnam. With scheduled flights limited all around the globe, transfering could now be both a challange and a risk of being stuck somewhere in the middle.


You can close the borders without grounding air travel simply by restricting the transport to inbound Polish citizens and Polish permanent residents? Like the rest of the world does? Or is that too difficult to comprehend for an average person?


You cannot restrict an airline from selling tickets to Poles on outbound scheduled flights, when it is totally legal for them to leave the country. Border is closed, but only for incoming foreigners and not for incoming or outcoming Poles. The only way is to take that opportunity away from them. I hope it is not too difficult to comprehend.


Where did I write that outbound travel would be restricted to Polish citizens? You might want to read my posts again and pay attention as English is clearly not your strong point.
 
artflyer
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:24 pm

LHRLAXSYD wrote:
artflyer wrote:
LHRLAXSYD wrote:

You can close the borders without grounding air travel simply by restricting the transport to inbound Polish citizens and Polish permanent residents? Like the rest of the world does? Or is that too difficult to comprehend for an average person?


You cannot restrict an airline from selling tickets to Poles on outbound scheduled flights, when it is totally legal for them to leave the country. Border is closed, but only for incoming foreigners and not for incoming or outcoming Poles. The only way is to take that opportunity away from them. I hope it is not too difficult to comprehend.


Where did I write that outbound travel would be restricted to Polish citizens? You might want to read my posts again and pay attention as English is clearly not your strong point.


Your English is your strong point but your logical thinking skill seems deficient. My last attempt at explaining it: the Polish gov wanted to prevent Poles from flying on outbound flights. The problem is that with scheduled flights you cannot legally tell airlines to sell outbound tickets only to non-Poles, given that it is totally legal for Poles to leave the country. With all flights chartered by the gov they can restrict sales as only they wish, including, as they did, stop any sales on outbound flights.

I really hope that helps, but any way I just call it a day.
Last edited by artflyer on Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
factsonly
Posts: 2977
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:26 pm

LOT operates yet another London flight, LO8661 operating WAW-LCY with E190 SP-LMA;

https://www.flightradar24.com/LOT8661/24363842
 
tomgle
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:20 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:28 pm

factsonly wrote:
LOT operates yet another London flight, LO8661 operating WAW-LCY with E190 SP-LMA;

https://www.flightradar24.com/LOT8661/24363842

Yeah there’s a lot of London flights at the moment. I’ve also noticed quite a few Dreamliners going to Malaga; makes me wonder if they aren’t missing a trick by serving AGP under normal circumstances...
 
LHRLAXSYD
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:41 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:04 pm

artflyer wrote:
LHRLAXSYD wrote:
artflyer wrote:

You cannot restrict an airline from selling tickets to Poles on outbound scheduled flights, when it is totally legal for them to leave the country. Border is closed, but only for incoming foreigners and not for incoming or outcoming Poles. The only way is to take that opportunity away from them. I hope it is not too difficult to comprehend.


Where did I write that outbound travel would be restricted to Polish citizens? You might want to read my posts again and pay attention as English is clearly not your strong point.


Your English is your strong point but your logical thinking skill seems deficient. My last attempt at explaining it: the Polish gov wanted to prevent Poles from flying on outbound flights. The problem is that with scheduled flights you cannot legally tell airlines to sell outbound tickets only to non-Poles, given that it is totally legal for Poles to leave the country. With all flights chartered by the gov they can restrict sales as only they wish, including, as they did, stop any sales on outbound flights.

I really hope that helps, but any way I just call it a day.


You still don't get it do you? Airlines are free to open and close sales to public on whichever flights they see fit, including operating passenger flights one way and cargo only the other. No where did I mention operating outbound flights with foreign nationals only. Maybe read my post again?
 
tomgle
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:20 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:24 pm

I noticed KLM operated a rotation to Warsaw today (KL1365 AMS-WAW, KL1366 WAW-AMS), anyone know what the story with that is?
 
factsonly
Posts: 2977
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:10 pm

tomgle wrote:
I noticed KLM operated a rotation to Warsaw today (KL1365 AMS-WAW, KL1366 WAW-AMS), anyone know what the story with that is?


Non-Polish airlines are permitted to carry Polish citizens to Poland and non-Polish citizen departing from Poland.
 
LHRLAXSYD
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:41 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:27 pm

factsonly wrote:
tomgle wrote:
I noticed KLM operated a rotation to Warsaw today (KL1365 AMS-WAW, KL1366 WAW-AMS), anyone know what the story with that is?


Non-Polish airlines are permitted to carry Polish citizens to Poland and non-Polish citizen departing from Poland.


Thought they couldn't restrict the outflow from Poland based on nationality?
 
MikeyPHX
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:21 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:41 pm

They can’t on regular scheduled commercial flights, which are canceled. This KLM is technically also a charter flight. Per EU laws they can’t ban other EU airlines operating flights with the same charter rules as LOT has.
 
factsonly
Posts: 2977
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:21 am

Wednesday 18 March, 2020:

LOT operates WAW-LCY:

- LO8657 WAW dep. 07:59 - LCY arr. 09:10 E190 SP-LMA
 
pdp
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:14 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:09 am

factsonly wrote:
Wednesday 18 March, 2020:

LOT operates WAW-LCY:

- LO8657 WAW dep. 07:59 - LCY arr. 09:10 E190 SP-LMA


As it's an 8xxx flight number, it seems to be a "Lot do domu" flight. Odd choice of airport/aircraft though.
 
tomgle
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:20 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:50 am

https://m.lot.com/pl/pl/lot-do-domu Here’s a list of which cities they will fly to on which days (Polish, but fairly self-explanatory)
 
artflyer
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:11 am

[url][/url]
MikeyPHX wrote:
They can’t on regular scheduled commercial flights, which are canceled. This KLM is technically also a charter flight. Per EU laws they can’t ban other EU airlines operating flights with the same charter rules as LOT has.


Nope. This has nothing to do with EU law. The ban on scheduled passenger flights that was introduced under Polish aviation law foresees that foreign airlines may do charter flights but only at the request of their respective governments, and with no pax inbound and with only their citizens outbound, so as to allow their repatriation. It is then the other way around as with airlines chartered by the Polish gov to repatriate Poles.
 
factsonly
Posts: 2977
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 18, 2020 2:46 pm

Wednesday 18 March, 2020:

LOT is operating WAW-Varadero with B789:

- LO6537 dep. WAW 14:37 - arr. VRA 18:59 B789 SP-LSG

(not on the above list)
 
tomgle
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:20 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:35 pm

factsonly wrote:
Wednesday 18 March, 2020:

LOT is operating WAW-Varadero with B789:

- LO6537 dep. WAW 14:37 - arr. VRA 18:59 B789 SP-LSG

(not on the above list)


That’s not part of the LotDoDomu programme - 6*** flight numbers indicate a ‘regular’ charter flight for package holidays etc.
 
factsonly
Posts: 2977
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:48 am

Thursday March 19, 2020:

LOT operates WAW-DUB:

- LO8665 dep. 06.38 WAW - arr. 08.20 DUB B738 SP-LWF

https://www.flightradar24.com/LOT8665/243a2357
 
parrotta
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:51 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:09 am

parrotta wrote:
Blerg wrote:
intrance wrote:
I’m flying out of Warsaw tonight, will be interesting how it looks :P.


Try to take a picture for us if you don't mind, I wonder if they will use the taxiways as parking. I guess Wizz Air will move its planes to Budapest for storage?


Seems some wizz planes will be sitting in Poland during the lock down.They are not needed elsewhere anyway


They shipped wizz aircrafts to DEB and BUD from Poland and Georgia
 
Danny
Posts: 3752
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:40 am

factsonly wrote:
Thursday March 19, 2020:

LOT operates WAW-DUB:

- LO8665 dep. 06.38 WAW - arr. 08.20 DUB B738 SP-LWF

https://www.flightradar24.com/LOT8665/243a2357

People had cheap flights on Ryanair. Then the government cancelled those flights and forced them to buy more expensive ones from LOT. And they call it "HELP".
 
artflyer
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:54 pm

Curosity: on 29 March SYD-WAW by LO on B789 (22h55min).
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 3605
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:26 pm

artflyer wrote:
Curosity: on 29 March SYD-WAW by LO on B789 (22h55min).


Almost certainly a fuel stop somewhere...I would suspect likely SIN.

Separately, what does this mean for the acquisition of Condor? This couldn't have come at a worse time.
 
airborneX0101
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:54 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:45 pm

In case you haven't heard, LOT backs out of Condor purchase, unsurprisingly.

https://onemileatatime.com/lot-cancels-condor-takeover/
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:59 pm

I read in the polish news media that LOT will most likely restart domestic flights in early June? and international in July/August, I can'f find the article, can anyone confirm?
LOT is also renegotiating with leasing companies on better agreements.

I think we could make a list of things that need to happen with the restart of operations and next year or two

Cancel all wet leases with (Air Belgium, Blue Air, (forgot who the A320s coming from)) to streamline the fleet
Remove from fleet leased Q-400 and E-170/75, and
keep E-195 coming in from Azul
Once 737Max restarts flying remove 737NG from fleet
Will Lufthansa put early focus on Polish regional airports? or can LOT beat them to the punch and solidify regional flying especially if borders are closed to international flying for a while longer?
787s continue flying in and out of AUH with maintenance so hopefully it will finally be a strong longhoul fleet
Refocus on BUD or it should be shelved?

Fleet should consist of E-190/95, B737Max and B787

I'm guessing at this point we can forget about the next order for longhoul and with that any other aircraft.
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK G4 F9
717 733/7/8/9/M8 744 752/3 763 788 319/20/21 332/3 M90 RJ85 CR9 Q400 E7/95 (PA28,152)
 
Blerg
Posts: 4150
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:25 pm

Has the government said how much they will set aside for LO? I mean, I assume LOT will request some government assistance.
 
rafalyyz
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:12 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:53 am

Have they gone bankrupt yet?
 
Blerg
Posts: 4150
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:16 am

rafalyyz wrote:
Have they gone bankrupt yet?


My guess is that they got some money from the government to operate charter flights to repatriate stranded Poles around the world.
 
tomgle
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:20 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:59 am

Blerg wrote:
rafalyyz wrote:
Have they gone bankrupt yet?


My guess is that they got some money from the government to operate charter flights to repatriate stranded Poles around the world.

In theory they didn’t actually earn any profit from those. Whether that’s actually the case is a separate issue...
 
tomgle
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:20 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:59 am

Blerg wrote:
rafalyyz wrote:
Have they gone bankrupt yet?


My guess is that they got some money from the government to operate charter flights to repatriate stranded Poles around the world.

In theory they didn’t actually earn any profit from those. Whether that’s actually the case is a separate issue...
 
User avatar
oxonrow
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:04 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:20 am

Blerg wrote:
rafalyyz wrote:
Have they gone bankrupt yet?


My guess is that they got some money from the government to operate charter flights to repatriate stranded Poles around the world.


A class action law suit is allegedly being lodged against the airline for charging exuberant fares for at least some of the stranded pax.

https://wyborcza.pl/7,155287,25863294,b ... y-byc.html
 
User avatar
oxonrow
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:04 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:21 am

SRQLOT wrote:
I read in the polish news media that LOT will most likely restart domestic flights in early June? and international in July/August, I can'f find the article, can anyone confirm?
LOT is also renegotiating with leasing companies on better agreements.

I think we could make a list of things that need to happen with the restart of operations and next year or two

Cancel all wet leases with (Air Belgium, Blue Air, (forgot who the A320s coming from)) to streamline the fleet
Remove from fleet leased Q-400 and E-170/75, and
keep E-195 coming in from Azul
Once 737Max restarts flying remove 737NG from fleet
Will Lufthansa put early focus on Polish regional airports? or can LOT beat them to the punch and solidify regional flying especially if borders are closed to international flying for a while longer?
787s continue flying in and out of AUH with maintenance so hopefully it will finally be a strong longhoul fleet
Refocus on BUD or it should be shelved?

Fleet should consist of E-190/95, B737Max and B787

I'm guessing at this point we can forget about the next order for longhoul and with that any other aircraft.


Why assume that the Max is going to fly again so soon? Many would rather see it ditched anyways.

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