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PixelPilot
Posts: 563
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:19 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:53 pm

oxonrow wrote:
Blerg wrote:
rafalyyz wrote:
Have they gone bankrupt yet?


My guess is that they got some money from the government to operate charter flights to repatriate stranded Poles around the world.


A class action law suit is allegedly being lodged against the airline for charging exuberant fares for at least some of the stranded pax.

https://wyborcza.pl/7,155287,25863294,b ... y-byc.html


Paywall.
Can't read.
 
superjeff
Posts: 1374
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:49 pm

The one thing I haven't seen so far on this Newsgroup is the situation re Condor. I understand they are backing out of that deal. Anybody have any updated information?
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 3:21 pm

oxonrow wrote:
Blerg wrote:
rafalyyz wrote:
Have they gone bankrupt yet?


My guess is that they got some money from the government to operate charter flights to repatriate stranded Poles around the world.


A class action law suit is allegedly being lodged against the airline for charging exuberant fares for at least some of the stranded pax.

https://wyborcza.pl/7,155287,25863294,b ... y-byc.html



So is it because people had to pay up to $600 dollars for long haul flights? Yeah the Polish government didn’t ask for EU assistance where 75% of the reparation flight would be covered by EU and the rest by Polish government, I think that was stupid and they could have used Enter Air to fly people to regional airports and not just Warsaw. Instead passengers had to cover that portion.


With this situation I lost about $500 in all the different flights I had so a free flight would have been nice.
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK G4 F9
717 733/7/8/9/M8 744 752/3 763 788 319/20/21 332/3 M90 RJ85 CR9 Q400 E7/95 (PA28,152)
 
Ryga
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:26 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 3:27 pm

superjeff wrote:
The one thing I haven't seen so far on this Newsgroup is the situation re Condor. I understand they are backing out of that deal. Anybody have any updated information?



You will find all that information on this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1439725&start=100&hilit=Condor
AA AM BA BM BY DP DY EK MH PG RJ TK U2 VS Y2 ZB Z2 5J 9W

738 752 762ER/3ER 77W 788/9
A319/20/21 A332/3
E190
ATR 72-600
Jetstream 32
CRJ200ER
 
User avatar
oxonrow
Posts: 62
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Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:40 pm

Could LOT cancel the 737 MAX leases and start looking for a short/mid haul aircraft from scratch?
 
tomgle
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:20 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:57 pm

There are currently 3 787s flying WAW-TSE, and one TSE-WAW, flight no’s LO79XX? Anyone know why?
 
tomgle
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:20 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:03 pm

SRQLOT wrote:
oxonrow wrote:
Blerg wrote:

My guess is that they got some money from the government to operate charter flights to repatriate stranded Poles around the world.


A class action law suit is allegedly being lodged against the airline for charging exuberant fares for at least some of the stranded pax.

https://wyborcza.pl/7,155287,25863294,b ... y-byc.html



So is it because people had to pay up to $600 dollars for long haul flights? Yeah the Polish government didn’t ask for EU assistance where 75% of the reparation flight would be covered by EU and the rest by Polish government, I think that was stupid and they could have used Enter Air to fly people to regional airports and not just Warsaw. Instead passengers had to cover that portion.


With this situation I lost about $500 in all the different flights I had so a free flight would have been nice.


Yeah, this whole thing seems pretty farcical. I was defensive of the program initially, but the longer it went on and the more I read about it the worse it sounded. I think I also heard somewhere that enter air did operate free of charge repatriation flights, I don’t have a source for this though.
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:10 pm

tomgle wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:
oxonrow wrote:

A class action law suit is allegedly being lodged against the airline for charging exuberant fares for at least some of the stranded pax.

https://wyborcza.pl/7,155287,25863294,b ... y-byc.html



So is it because people had to pay up to $600 dollars for long haul flights? Yeah the Polish government didn’t ask for EU assistance where 75% of the reparation flight would be covered by EU and the rest by Polish government, I think that was stupid and they could have used Enter Air to fly people to regional airports and not just Warsaw. Instead passengers had to cover that portion.


With this situation I lost about $500 in all the different flights I had so a free flight would have been nice.


Yeah, this whole thing seems pretty farcical. I was defensive of the program initially, but the longer it went on and the more I read about it the worse it sounded. I think I also heard somewhere that enter air did operate free of charge repatriation flights, I don’t have a source for this though.



There was more about the situation in the Polish news and for the EU assistance to work LOT would have to fly at least 10% EU citizens, and as Poland shut its borders that couldn’t really happen.
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK G4 F9
717 733/7/8/9/M8 744 752/3 763 788 319/20/21 332/3 M90 RJ85 CR9 Q400 E7/95 (PA28,152)
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:11 pm

tomgle wrote:
There are currently 3 787s flying WAW-TSE, and one TSE-WAW, flight no’s LO79XX? Anyone know why?


I think they had more medical cargo from China after the An-225, and as they cannot fly over Siberia at this time they made a stop.
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK G4 F9
717 733/7/8/9/M8 744 752/3 763 788 319/20/21 332/3 M90 RJ85 CR9 Q400 E7/95 (PA28,152)
 
PlutekPlutek
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:44 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:34 pm

tomgle wrote:
There are currently 3 787s flying WAW-TSE, and one TSE-WAW, flight no’s LO79XX? Anyone know why?


The TSE I think is a crew change stop before the flight continued to China to pick up cargo. The same crew flew TSE-China-TSE, and a different crew does WAW-TSE-WAW. If the did direct Warsaw-China-Warsaw, there would apparently have been more complex crewing issues.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4150
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:46 am

SRQLOT wrote:
tomgle wrote:
There are currently 3 787s flying WAW-TSE, and one TSE-WAW, flight no’s LO79XX? Anyone know why?


I think they had more medical cargo from China after the An-225, and as they cannot fly over Siberia at this time they made a stop.


How come they don't have Siberian overflight rights? Almost all European airlines are flying over Russia on their way to pick up aid
 
A330Inter
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:59 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:54 am

Blerg wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:
tomgle wrote:
There are currently 3 787s flying WAW-TSE, and one TSE-WAW, flight no’s LO79XX? Anyone know why?


I think they had more medical cargo from China after the An-225, and as they cannot fly over Siberia at this time they made a stop.


How come they don't have Siberian overflight rights? Almost all European airlines are flying over Russia on their way to pick up aid


Not sure, but could be a political row between both countries.
A couple of days ago, Poland didn't let a Russian aircraft fly over it's airspace on a flight between Russia and Italy to carry medical aid.
Even during critical times, politics are interfering...

https://defence24.com/poland-issued-no-airspace-restrictions-for-the-russian-humanitarian-aid-flights-headed-to-italy-coronavirus-employed-by-kremlin-as-means-of-propaganda-commentary
 
gloom
Posts: 476
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:24 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:21 pm

A330Inter wrote:
A couple of days ago, Poland didn't let a Russian aircraft fly over it's airspace on a flight between Russia and Italy to carry medical aid.
Even during critical times, politics are interfering...


Interesting link. However:
1. I don't know why here. It's LOT thread, and this case has no link to LOT whatsoever.
2. Linked article says opposite from your thesis.
I would set up a separate thread, if I were you.

Cheers,
Adam
 
Blerg
Posts: 4150
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:20 pm

gloom wrote:
A330Inter wrote:
A couple of days ago, Poland didn't let a Russian aircraft fly over it's airspace on a flight between Russia and Italy to carry medical aid.
Even during critical times, politics are interfering...


Interesting link. However:
1. I don't know why here. It's LOT thread, and this case has no link to LOT whatsoever.
2. Linked article says opposite from your thesis.
I would set up a separate thread, if I were you.

Cheers,
Adam


Chill out, he was replying to my question which was related to LO.
 
gregpodpl
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:49 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:48 pm

A330Inter wrote:
A couple of days ago, Poland didn't let a Russian aircraft fly over it's airspace on a flight between Russia and Italy to carry medical aid.

AFAIK that is not true, and this is only Russian propaganda.
https://www.polygraph.info/a/russian-se ... 07078.html

Also it may be more about Ukrainian plane (An-225) flying over Russia - they have bigger issues.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4150
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:19 pm

Austrian Airlines today announced that it will be further retiring ten aircraft: 3 B767 and 7 A319. Once they retire the Q400 and add some A320s, their fleet will total 60 aircraft. Who would have thought that the day will come when LO would have 20 aicraft more in its fleet.

How times change.
 
artflyer
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:24 pm

Blerg wrote:
Austrian Airlines today announced that it will be further retiring ten aircraft: 3 B767 and 7 A319. Once they retire the Q400 and add some A320s, their fleet will total 60 aircraft. Who would have thought that the day will come when LO would have 20 aicraft more in its fleet.

How times change.


It was all going very well, but stormy weathers are now in front of the entire industry. As for now, LO did not apply for any state aid and seems to be reluctant to use one, even where it is available on general terms, ie for all businesses operating in Poland. For example LO did not apply for subsidies of employment costs but, in order to avoid layoffs, proposed its employees a consensual reduction in remuneration. Still, after abolishment of the EU rule "one time last time" there are no legal obstacles for LO getting state aid. There are also no financial obstacles as Poland is prepared to pump a lot of money into local businesses - the government plans total aid of approx. 50 bln USD, which equals almost 10% of nominal GDP and is one of the biggest in relation to GDP. Apparently, LO has very bad memories from last time when they received state aid, which was 2012, and that forced them to cut many profitable routes. Still we shall see, as the fact that the entire fleet is leased, does make them vulnerable.

Overall, the government already declared that they do not foresee any sectoral plan for aviation, except for airports. Namely, Poland will be subsidising selected airports to keep them open despite the ban on all passenger flights. I expect some of the smaller airports that won't get that aid to go bankrupt (in some cases that will not be a big loss) and among those that I expect to go bankrupt I see a Ryanair-only WMI. That would be really good news for Wizz and to an extent also for LO. I don't think that WMI will not reopen, but I expect the bankruptcy trustee will terminate the agreement that WMI currently has with Ryanair, and which is one-sided to say the least. The list of airports that are going to get subsidies has not yet been published and we can see a fierce press campaign by WMI and Ryanair around that.
 
Flylot
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:33 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:46 pm

artflyer wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Austrian Airlines today announced that it will be further retiring ten aircraft: 3 B767 and 7 A319. Once they retire the Q400 and add some A320s, their fleet will total 60 aircraft. Who would have thought that the day will come when LO would have 20 aicraft more in its fleet.

How times change.


It was all going very well, but stormy weathers are now in front of the entire industry. As for now, LO did not apply for any state aid and seems to be reluctant to use one, even where it is available on general terms, ie for all businesses operating in Poland. For example LO did not apply for subsidies of employment costs but, in order to avoid layoffs, proposed its employees a consensual reduction in remuneration. Still, after abolishment of the EU rule "one time last time" there are no legal obstacles for LO getting state aid. There are also no financial obstacles as Poland is prepared to pump a lot of money into local businesses - the government plans total aid of approx. 50 bln USD, which equals almost 10% of nominal GDP and is one of the biggest in relation to GDP. Apparently, LO has very bad memories from last time when they received state aid, which was 2012, and that forced them to cut many profitable routes. Still we shall see, as the fact that the entire fleet is leased, does make them vulnerable.

Overall, the government already declared that they do not foresee any sectoral plan for aviation, except for airports. Namely, Poland will be subsidising selected airports to keep them open despite the ban on all passenger flights. I expect some of the smaller airports that won't get that aid to go bankrupt (in some cases that will not be a big loss) and among those that I expect to go bankrupt I see a Ryanair-only WMI. That would be really good news for Wizz and to an extent also for LO. I don't think that WMI will not reopen, but I expect the bankruptcy trustee will terminate the agreement that WMI currently has with Ryanair, and which is one-sided to say the least. The list of airports that are going to get subsidies has not yet been published and we can see a fierce press campaign by WMI and Ryanair around that.


As a government owned business does LOT need to report that it is receiving state aid? LOT/PGL is a government entity. Of course it’s going to get/getting state aid, it’s inherit in the PGL shell structure.

LOT recent aggressive expansion has been funded by taxpayers and state banks. There has been some profits, but LOT did not suddenly gain enough collateral to buy 15 or so Dreamliners, MAX etc from the 5 767s it was running through the 00s.
"In Soviet Russia, airplane flies on you"
 
artflyer
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:03 pm

Flylot wrote:
artflyer wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Austrian Airlines today announced that it will be further retiring ten aircraft: 3 B767 and 7 A319. Once they retire the Q400 and add some A320s, their fleet will total 60 aircraft. Who would have thought that the day will come when LO would have 20 aicraft more in its fleet.

How times change.


It was all going very well, but stormy weathers are now in front of the entire industry. As for now, LO did not apply for any state aid and seems to be reluctant to use one, even where it is available on general terms, ie for all businesses operating in Poland. For example LO did not apply for subsidies of employment costs but, in order to avoid layoffs, proposed its employees a consensual reduction in remuneration. Still, after abolishment of the EU rule "one time last time" there are no legal obstacles for LO getting state aid. There are also no financial obstacles as Poland is prepared to pump a lot of money into local businesses - the government plans total aid of approx. 50 bln USD, which equals almost 10% of nominal GDP and is one of the biggest in relation to GDP. Apparently, LO has very bad memories from last time when they received state aid, which was 2012, and that forced them to cut many profitable routes. Still we shall see, as the fact that the entire fleet is leased, does make them vulnerable.

Overall, the government already declared that they do not foresee any sectoral plan for aviation, except for airports. Namely, Poland will be subsidising selected airports to keep them open despite the ban on all passenger flights. I expect some of the smaller airports that won't get that aid to go bankrupt (in some cases that will not be a big loss) and among those that I expect to go bankrupt I see a Ryanair-only WMI. That would be really good news for Wizz and to an extent also for LO. I don't think that WMI will not reopen, but I expect the bankruptcy trustee will terminate the agreement that WMI currently has with Ryanair, and which is one-sided to say the least. The list of airports that are going to get subsidies has not yet been published and we can see a fierce press campaign by WMI and Ryanair around that.


As a government owned business does LOT need to report that it is receiving state aid? LOT/PGL is a government entity. Of course it’s going to get/getting state aid, it’s inherit in the PGL shell structure.

LOT recent aggressive expansion has been funded by taxpayers and state banks. There has been some profits, but LOT did not suddenly gain enough collateral to buy 15 or so Dreamliners, MAX etc from the 5 767s it was running through the 00s.


Oh boy, just go and read the financial statements. They are public. You will see that LO was recapitalised last time in 2012. You will also see that as far as I recall they had one credit facility used mostly over winter period and repaid in spring. The last time I checked (2018) they were banking with mbank, a subsidiary of Commerzbank. And so on, and so on..
 
ACA772LR
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:55 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:13 am

Anybody know if they’ll continue using the Air Belgium contract or would that be finished now? I’d assume it’s extra capacity that wouldn’t be need again
 
Blerg
Posts: 4150
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:36 am

artflyer wrote:
Flylot wrote:
artflyer wrote:

It was all going very well, but stormy weathers are now in front of the entire industry. As for now, LO did not apply for any state aid and seems to be reluctant to use one, even where it is available on general terms, ie for all businesses operating in Poland. For example LO did not apply for subsidies of employment costs but, in order to avoid layoffs, proposed its employees a consensual reduction in remuneration. Still, after abolishment of the EU rule "one time last time" there are no legal obstacles for LO getting state aid. There are also no financial obstacles as Poland is prepared to pump a lot of money into local businesses - the government plans total aid of approx. 50 bln USD, which equals almost 10% of nominal GDP and is one of the biggest in relation to GDP. Apparently, LO has very bad memories from last time when they received state aid, which was 2012, and that forced them to cut many profitable routes. Still we shall see, as the fact that the entire fleet is leased, does make them vulnerable.

Overall, the government already declared that they do not foresee any sectoral plan for aviation, except for airports. Namely, Poland will be subsidising selected airports to keep them open despite the ban on all passenger flights. I expect some of the smaller airports that won't get that aid to go bankrupt (in some cases that will not be a big loss) and among those that I expect to go bankrupt I see a Ryanair-only WMI. That would be really good news for Wizz and to an extent also for LO. I don't think that WMI will not reopen, but I expect the bankruptcy trustee will terminate the agreement that WMI currently has with Ryanair, and which is one-sided to say the least. The list of airports that are going to get subsidies has not yet been published and we can see a fierce press campaign by WMI and Ryanair around that.


As a government owned business does LOT need to report that it is receiving state aid? LOT/PGL is a government entity. Of course it’s going to get/getting state aid, it’s inherit in the PGL shell structure.

LOT recent aggressive expansion has been funded by taxpayers and state banks. There has been some profits, but LOT did not suddenly gain enough collateral to buy 15 or so Dreamliners, MAX etc from the 5 767s it was running through the 00s.


Oh boy, just go and read the financial statements. They are public. You will see that LO was recapitalised last time in 2012. You will also see that as far as I recall they had one credit facility used mostly over winter period and repaid in spring. The last time I checked (2018) they were banking with mbank, a subsidiary of Commerzbank. And so on, and so on..


Well I am sure LO will weather the storm, no matter what as they are too important for Poland to be let go. Also, once all this blows over I am sure they are going to profit as well from Austrian Airlines' reduced overall capacity. The battle for Vienna will go on after corona meaning Austrian Airlines will be in position to fight anyone out there. In a way this creates an opening for LO all throughout eastern and south-east Europe, an area where LO has grown considerably over the past few years. Unfortunately once demand starts to recover, LO will be able to respond however I have my doubts about WAW.

As for WMI, it will be a blessing for LO and W6 if they go bankrupt as FR announced that they are getting ready for a massive price war once all this is over. By permanently or temporarily closing WMI they will 'protect' the Warsaw market from unnatural market circumstances.
 
Flylot
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:33 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:02 pm

artflyer wrote:
Flylot wrote:
artflyer wrote:

It was all going very well, but stormy weathers are now in front of the entire industry. As for now, LO did not apply for any state aid and seems to be reluctant to use one, even where it is available on general terms, ie for all businesses operating in Poland. For example LO did not apply for subsidies of employment costs but, in order to avoid layoffs, proposed its employees a consensual reduction in remuneration. Still, after abolishment of the EU rule "one time last time" there are no legal obstacles for LO getting state aid. There are also no financial obstacles as Poland is prepared to pump a lot of money into local businesses - the government plans total aid of approx. 50 bln USD, which equals almost 10% of nominal GDP and is one of the biggest in relation to GDP. Apparently, LO has very bad memories from last time when they received state aid, which was 2012, and that forced them to cut many profitable routes. Still we shall see, as the fact that the entire fleet is leased, does make them vulnerable.

Overall, the government already declared that they do not foresee any sectoral plan for aviation, except for airports. Namely, Poland will be subsidising selected airports to keep them open despite the ban on all passenger flights. I expect some of the smaller airports that won't get that aid to go bankrupt (in some cases that will not be a big loss) and among those that I expect to go bankrupt I see a Ryanair-only WMI. That would be really good news for Wizz and to an extent also for LO. I don't think that WMI will not reopen, but I expect the bankruptcy trustee will terminate the agreement that WMI currently has with Ryanair, and which is one-sided to say the least. The list of airports that are going to get subsidies has not yet been published and we can see a fierce press campaign by WMI and Ryanair around that.


As a government owned business does LOT need to report that it is receiving state aid? LOT/PGL is a government entity. Of course it’s going to get/getting state aid, it’s inherit in the PGL shell structure.

LOT recent aggressive expansion has been funded by taxpayers and state banks. There has been some profits, but LOT did not suddenly gain enough collateral to buy 15 or so Dreamliners, MAX etc from the 5 767s it was running through the 00s.


Oh boy, just go and read the financial statements. They are public. You will see that LO was recapitalised last time in 2012. You will also see that as far as I recall they had one credit facility used mostly over winter period and repaid in spring. The last time I checked (2018) they were banking with mbank, a subsidiary of Commerzbank. And so on, and so on..


It was a genuine question I was asking.

I don’t have a problem with LOT being a government owned entity (many airlines are). You can include Poland choosing its national airline (while forbidding others) for #LOTdoDomu and paying to move medical cargo as recent government help.

They’ve made some genuine cost cutting strides (moving regional service to more closely resemble LCC and hiring non union out of Hungary etc). I also look at the financial statements, but I dont cite them as they’ve been accused a number of times for not being completely transparent.

The whole revenue base has been shuddered for all airlines. LOT and Poland were in a fortunate enough economic place before the crisis that they won’t have to send their airline into administration like some of its peers. But I don’t see good things from a global crisis hitting during an aggressive 20% yearly growth.
"In Soviet Russia, airplane flies on you"
 
artflyer
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Mon May 18, 2020 8:40 pm

LO is restarting domestic flights from 1 June. For now only around 30 flights daily (from WAW to KRK, POZ, GDN, RZE, SZZ, WRO, IEG as well as KRK-GDN). This means two-three daily compared to four-six daily before grounding on majority of routes. Ticket prices very competitive to EIC trains. All international flights remain cancelled until 14 June. Information on further steps is supposed to be disclosed at least two weeks in advance of these steps. More domestic flights and European flights are rumoured to go first.

LO was grounded since 15 March. During that time they were doing only repatriation flights (LOTdoDomu), medical cargo from China and Taiwan as well as some other cargo flights. Currently, apart from pure medical cargo flights, they are doing cargo-only scheduled flights to ORD, JFK, DEL, ICN, PEK, NRT, YYZ + some European routes. Except for DEL (one weekly) and ORD, all are two weekly.

https://www.rynek-lotniczy.pl/wiadomosc ... -8631.html

Quarantine requirement on entry has been lifted in Poland in particular for business travellers from EU, EEA, Switzerland and UK.

For a general picture: as of today number of COVID cases in Poland (population 38 mln) is 18,885, total deaths 936, new cases daily between 300-400, 620k tests done until now. Q1 saw 1.9% GDP growth y/y, but the forecast for 2020 is a recession of around 4%.
 
PlutekPlutek
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:44 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:46 am

I heard on the radio today that they're in some serious trouble. Apparently a few of their planes have been repossessed ? Can't see anything online.
 
holczakker
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 7:34 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:27 am

They must be aware of the risk of going bust if they started the process of setting up an "alternative" LOT (new AOC etc).
 
VSMUT
Posts: 4562
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:44 am

PlutekPlutek wrote:
I heard on the radio today that they're in some serious trouble. Apparently a few of their planes have been repossessed ? Can't see anything online.


All their 737s are leased, as are all 787-9s and at least 1 787-8, all Dash-8s and many of the E195s. I wonder which?
 
Blerg
Posts: 4150
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:57 am

Do we know which airports or who repossessed them? I mean they are currently not flying internationally so I assume it would have to be one of the domestic Polish airports?
 
artflyer
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:32 am

VSMUT wrote:
PlutekPlutek wrote:
I heard on the radio today that they're in some serious trouble. Apparently a few of their planes have been repossessed ? Can't see anything online.


All their 737s are leased, as are all 787-9s and at least 1 787-8, all Dash-8s and many of the E195s. I wonder which?


All planes operated by LO are leased. This makes lessors real "investors" in LO, even more than its equity holder (PGL). The real question is how the covid-related losses should be approportioned among those different investors.

To me what is happening is a clear attempt to play hardball with the lessors, where there are only two options: a) leasing rates are consensually reduced by all lessors so that lessors - as investors into LO - take an appropriate part of the covid related hit, b) LO goes through a so-called pre-pack insolvency and as part of it renounces those leasing agreements were lessors didn't agree to an appropriate reduction of the leasing fees. The third option would be doing all this at the expense of the tax payer (pouring money into LO without earlier restructuring of the leasing and employment agreements), so actually propping up lessors (as "real" investors into LO) via state aid. I am not in favour of the latter.

According to public declarations scenario a) remains a basic scenario, with state aid pouring money into LO only after restructuring of the leasing and employment agreements, but preparations seem well under way to do scenario b). Probably various state aid programmes already in place spoiled the lessors a bit and reduced their willingness to compromise, ie they expect leasing fees under existing agreements to remain more or less as if there were no covid. I would also guess lessors want to check whether the Polish gov is in fact happy with LO going through insolvency (even pre-pack). To show this determination: PGL (equity holder of LO) established a new subsidiary (LOT Polish Airlines S.A., which is in fact a translation of the Polish language name of the current LO), and that subsidiary applied for the AOC.
 
artflyer
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:02 am

Blerg wrote:
Do we know which airports or who repossessed them? I mean they are currently not flying internationally so I assume it would have to be one of the domestic Polish airports?


I haven't seen/heard any such news in Polish media and I would expect it would go viral by now, if it actually happened. So probably some misunderstanding or part of a negotiation tactic by one of the lessors.

The only news in the media is about another subsidiary of PGL (LO's owner) applying for a Polish AOC. But that application did happen in May and today it was just disclosed by PGL. No media bothered to check by now:)
 
MikeyPHX
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:21 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:14 pm

artflyer wrote:
I haven't seen/heard any such news in Polish media and I would expect it would go viral by now, if it actually happened. So probably some misunderstanding or part of a negotiation tactic by one of the lessors.

The only news in the media is about another subsidiary of PGL (LO's owner) applying for a Polish AOC. But that application did happen in May and today it was just disclosed by PGL. No media bothered to check by now:)


It’s a social media rumor, based on a twitter post. It seems to be a fact that 2 Dreamliners are stuck at JFK. Why, nobody really knows, hence the rumor. If you speak Polish check the link to “Polish Reddit” as it has the tweets and registration of planes.

https://www.wykop.pl/link/5565735/lot-d ... uziemione/
 
artflyer
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:28 am

LO to resume regular intercontinental pax flights.

WAW-NYE-WAW - three weekly (Mon, Wed, Fri) - from 1 July
WAW-ORD-WAW - three weekly (Tue, Fri, Sun) - from 3 July
WAW-YYZ-WAW - two weekly (Wed, Sat) - from 1 July
WAW-NRT-WAW - one weekly (Sun) - from 5 July

https://www.rynek-lotniczy.pl/wiadomosc ... -8916.html

Apart from it, since 1 July LO will be flying to PRG, DUS, VNO, BUD (daily), TXL (six weekly), VIE, BRU, KBP (five weekly), AMS, OTP (four weekly), BCN, OSL, TBS (three weekly), SPU, DBV (two weekly), and a couple of others.
 
MikeyPHX
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:21 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:07 pm

I wonder if they anticipate opening of tourist traffic between the US and Schengen area or not, with that flight schedule. I think they assume restrictions will be in place as it seems rather basic, aimed at the Polish diaspora etc, as only Warsaw, not daily and none to Los Angeles or Miami.
 
desmoLCY
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:24 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:48 pm

LOT has announced today a lot of new holiday routes from Polish regional airports (operating in July and August only):
  • WRO - BOJ, FCO, JTR, HER, SKG, PMI, CHQ, RHO, CFU, DBV, KVA, BCN, KGS
  • GDN - BCN, SKG, FCO, DBV, SPU, KVA, RHO, ZAD, CFU, BOJ, CHQ, TIA
  • KRK - ZTH, JTR, KVA, ZAD, FCO, BCN, CFU, CHQ, KLX, DBV, SKG
  • POZ - FCO, SPU, PMI, BCN, ZTH, BOJ, CFU, TGD, HER, KVA, DBV
  • KTW - SKG, HER, CHQ, BOJ, KGS, RHO, ZTH, PMI, SPU, TIA
  • RZE - ZAD, SKG, BCN, BOJ
  • BZG - ZAD, ZTH
  • LUZ - CFU, SPU
  • SZZ - ZAD

It looks like either they want to maximise utilisation of their short haul fleet or they need a quick cash boost.
IMHO it's the latter.
 
VS11
Posts: 1661
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 6:34 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:31 pm

artflyer wrote:
LO to resume regular intercontinental pax flights.

WAW-NYE-WAW - three weekly (Mon, Wed, Fri) - from 1 July
WAW-ORD-WAW - three weekly (Tue, Fri, Sun) - from 3 July
WAW-YYZ-WAW - two weekly (Wed, Sat) - from 1 July
WAW-NRT-WAW - one weekly (Sun) - from 5 July

https://www.rynek-lotniczy.pl/wiadomosc ... -8916.html

Apart from it, since 1 July LO will be flying to PRG, DUS, VNO, BUD (daily), TXL (six weekly), VIE, BRU, KBP (five weekly), AMS, OTP (four weekly), BCN, OSL, TBS (three weekly), SPU, DBV (two weekly), and a couple of others.


They are cancelling all non-Schengen flights. I have a ticket out of NYC in July and just got the cancellation notice.
 
marcogr12
Posts: 449
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:34 pm

desmoLCY wrote:
LOT has announced today a lot of new holiday routes from Polish regional airports (operating in July and August only):
  • WRO - BOJ, FCO, JTR, HER, SKG, PMI, CHQ, RHO, CFU, DBV, KVA, BCN, KGS
  • GDN - BCN, SKG, FCO, DBV, SPU, KVA, RHO, ZAD, CFU, BOJ, CHQ, TIA
  • KRK - ZTH, JTR, KVA, ZAD, FCO, BCN, CFU, CHQ, KLX, DBV, SKG
  • POZ - FCO, SPU, PMI, BCN, ZTH, BOJ, CFU, TGD, HER, KVA, DBV
  • KTW - SKG, HER, CHQ, BOJ, KGS, RHO, ZTH, PMI, SPU, TIA
  • RZE - ZAD, SKG, BCN, BOJ
  • BZG - ZAD, ZTH
  • LUZ - CFU, SPU
  • SZZ - ZAD

It looks like either they want to maximise utilisation of their short haul fleet or they need a quick cash boost.
IMHO it's the latter.


Strange not seeing holidays routes from WAW?
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
artflyer
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:21 pm

[list=][/list]
VS11 wrote:
artflyer wrote:
LO to resume regular intercontinental pax flights.

WAW-NYE-WAW - three weekly (Mon, Wed, Fri) - from 1 July
WAW-ORD-WAW - three weekly (Tue, Fri, Sun) - from 3 July
WAW-YYZ-WAW - two weekly (Wed, Sat) - from 1 July
WAW-NRT-WAW - one weekly (Sun) - from 5 July

https://www.rynek-lotniczy.pl/wiadomosc ... -8916.html

Apart from it, since 1 July LO will be flying to PRG, DUS, VNO, BUD (daily), TXL (six weekly), VIE, BRU, KBP (five weekly), AMS, OTP (four weekly), BCN, OSL, TBS (three weekly), SPU, DBV (two weekly), and a couple of others.


They are cancelling all non-Schengen flights. I have a ticket out of NYC in July and just got the cancellation notice.


And I just got a notice that my departure on WAW-ICN flight for 5 August is moved forward by one hour. So it seems like it is going ahead.
 
VS11
Posts: 1661
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 6:34 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:25 pm

artflyer wrote:
[list=][/list]
VS11 wrote:
artflyer wrote:
LO to resume regular intercontinental pax flights.

WAW-NYE-WAW - three weekly (Mon, Wed, Fri) - from 1 July
WAW-ORD-WAW - three weekly (Tue, Fri, Sun) - from 3 July
WAW-YYZ-WAW - two weekly (Wed, Sat) - from 1 July
WAW-NRT-WAW - one weekly (Sun) - from 5 July

https://www.rynek-lotniczy.pl/wiadomosc ... -8916.html

Apart from it, since 1 July LO will be flying to PRG, DUS, VNO, BUD (daily), TXL (six weekly), VIE, BRU, KBP (five weekly), AMS, OTP (four weekly), BCN, OSL, TBS (three weekly), SPU, DBV (two weekly), and a couple of others.


They are cancelling all non-Schengen flights. I have a ticket out of NYC in July and just got the cancellation notice.


And I just got a notice that my departure on WAW-ICN flight for 5 August is moved forward by one hour. So it seems like it is going ahead.


Lucky you! This is what the cancellation email said:
Due to epidemic reasons, the flight schedule planned until August 31, 2020 includes primarily flights to the Schengen countries and popular holiday destinations, on travels available from 3rd of July, 2020 due to operation #LOTnaWakacje. The next destinations will be restored gradually, thus your flight has been cancelled.
 
artflyer
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:36 pm

desmoLCY wrote:
LOT has announced today a lot of new holiday routes from Polish regional airports (operating in July and August only):
  • WRO - BOJ, FCO, JTR, HER, SKG, PMI, CHQ, RHO, CFU, DBV, KVA, BCN, KGS
  • GDN - BCN, SKG, FCO, DBV, SPU, KVA, RHO, ZAD, CFU, BOJ, CHQ, TIA
  • KRK - ZTH, JTR, KVA, ZAD, FCO, BCN, CFU, CHQ, KLX, DBV, SKG
  • POZ - FCO, SPU, PMI, BCN, ZTH, BOJ, CFU, TGD, HER, KVA, DBV
  • KTW - SKG, HER, CHQ, BOJ, KGS, RHO, ZTH, PMI, SPU, TIA
  • RZE - ZAD, SKG, BCN, BOJ
  • BZG - ZAD, ZTH
  • LUZ - CFU, SPU
  • SZZ - ZAD

It looks like either they want to maximise utilisation of their short haul fleet or they need a quick cash boost.
IMHO it's the latter.


Doubt it. I guess that credit card companies have by now extended payment times for more or less all airlines and are sitting on their cash until the flight actually happens.

I expect the explanation is in the following words: subsidies from regional airports.

All airports in Poland have received gov subsidies to be able to sustain their operations despite covid. And they are desperately looking for airlines to operate there. Having LO is for them a prestige point they couldn't have hoped for during normal times (except for WAW route). And I wouldn't be surprised if LO proved here cheaper and undercut Wizz and Ryanair, what both of them didn't expect and escalated their demands as usual or even more.

Who would have expected that LO will base its planes, even if only for the holiday season, in GDN, KRK, POZ and WRO.
 
artflyer
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:44 pm

VS11 wrote:
artflyer wrote:
[list=][/list]
VS11 wrote:

They are cancelling all non-Schengen flights. I have a ticket out of NYC in July and just got the cancellation notice.


And I just got a notice that my departure on WAW-ICN flight for 5 August is moved forward by one hour. So it seems like it is going ahead.


Lucky you! This is what the cancellation email said:
Due to epidemic reasons, the flight schedule planned until August 31, 2020 includes primarily flights to the Schengen countries and popular holiday destinations, on travels available from 3rd of July, 2020 due to operation #LOTnaWakacje. The next destinations will be restored gradually, thus your flight has been cancelled.


Lucky or not, I will most probably change departure to next year as I am not sure ICN this August will make a perfect place for family vacations.

I guess you had a ticket to EWR and they will be operating to JFK only. Still you can probably change to JFK.
 
VS11
Posts: 1661
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 6:34 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:47 pm

artflyer wrote:
VS11 wrote:
artflyer wrote:
[list=][/list]

And I just got a notice that my departure on WAW-ICN flight for 5 August is moved forward by one hour. So it seems like it is going ahead.


Lucky you! This is what the cancellation email said:
Due to epidemic reasons, the flight schedule planned until August 31, 2020 includes primarily flights to the Schengen countries and popular holiday destinations, on travels available from 3rd of July, 2020 due to operation #LOTnaWakacje. The next destinations will be restored gradually, thus your flight has been cancelled.


Lucky or not, I will most probably change departure to next year as I am not sure ICN this August will make a perfect place for family vacations.

I guess you had a ticket to EWR and they will be operating to JFK only. Still you can probably change to JFK.


Nope. It was JFK-BUD with an onward non-Schengen destination. I am starting to suspect they will be canceling US flights per the rumored EU travel ban on American travelers.
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:20 pm

With all these vacation flights LOT is really trying to raise interest with unLOT like super cheap ticket prices! Some are saying new LOT2.0 might be a new low cost carrier?
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK G4 F9
717 733/7/8/9/M8 744 752/3 763 788 319/20/21 332/3 M90 RJ85 CR9 Q400 E7/95 (PA28,152)
 
SeanM1997
Posts: 422
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:27 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:52 pm

LOT say they will have 130 connections in July and August. So far I have found 66 new routes from 9 regional airports. What are the other 64? Does Warsaw have any new routes? Does the 130 include routes such as Amsterdam and Frankfurt which are resuming soon?
 
rafalyyz
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:12 am

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:40 am

They still haven't gone bankrupt? What's taking so long?
 
desmoLCY
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:24 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:57 am

SeanM1997 wrote:
LOT say they will have 130 connections in July and August. So far I have found 66 new routes from 9 regional airports. What are the other 64? Does Warsaw have any new routes? Does the 130 include routes such as Amsterdam and Frankfurt which are resuming soon?

There are flights from WAW as well: PMI, BOJ, BCN, HER, RHO, CTA, CHQ, MLA, ALC, AGP, TIA, ZTH, OLB, TBS, KGS, CFU, NCE, SKG, TGD, TIV, OHD, JTR, SKP, VCE, SPU, ZAD, KLX, KVA, DBV, VAR, RMI, RJK, JSI, LCA, ATH
 
SeanM1997
Posts: 422
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:27 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:00 am

desmoLCY wrote:
SeanM1997 wrote:
LOT say they will have 130 connections in July and August. So far I have found 66 new routes from 9 regional airports. What are the other 64? Does Warsaw have any new routes? Does the 130 include routes such as Amsterdam and Frankfurt which are resuming soon?

There are flights from WAW as well: PMI, BOJ, BCN, HER, RHO, CTA, CHQ, MLA, ALC, AGP, TIA, ZTH, OLB, TBS, KGS, CFU, NCE, SKG, TGD, TIV, OHD, JTR, SKP, VCE, SPU, ZAD, KLX, KVA, DBV, VAR, RMI, RJK, JSI, LCA, ATH


20 are new:
Rome (FCO)
Palma
Burgas
Heraklion
Rhodes
Catania
Malta
Alicante
Malaga
Zakynthos
Olbia
Kos
Thessaloniki
Tivat
Ohrid
Santorini
Kalamata
Kefalonia
Skiathos
Athens
https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/12 ... 3605337089

The rest are previously announced routes or existing to the network which are being restarted
 
desmoLCY
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:24 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:06 am

SeanM1997 wrote:
desmoLCY wrote:
SeanM1997 wrote:
LOT say they will have 130 connections in July and August. So far I have found 66 new routes from 9 regional airports. What are the other 64? Does Warsaw have any new routes? Does the 130 include routes such as Amsterdam and Frankfurt which are resuming soon?

There are flights from WAW as well: PMI, BOJ, BCN, HER, RHO, CTA, CHQ, MLA, ALC, AGP, TIA, ZTH, OLB, TBS, KGS, CFU, NCE, SKG, TGD, TIV, OHD, JTR, SKP, VCE, SPU, ZAD, KLX, KVA, DBV, VAR, RMI, RJK, JSI, LCA, ATH


20 are new:
Rome (FCO)
Palma
Burgas
Heraklion
Rhodes
Catania
Malta
Alicante
Malaga
Zakynthos
Olbia
Kos
Thessaloniki
Tivat
Ohrid
Santorini
Kalamata
Kefalonia
Skiathos
Athens
https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/12 ... 3605337089

The rest are previously announced routes or existing to the network which are being restarted

Correct, I've taken the list from https://www.lot.com/pl/en/holiday-flights but didn't verify which of them are new. The lowest fares are PLN99 OW/PLN199 RT, so dirty cheap.
 
A330Inter
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:59 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:39 am

rafalyyz wrote:
They still haven't gone bankrupt? What's taking so long?


Isn't the government owning 100% of the company?
With a very ambitious expansion plan why would they completely change their mind and let it die?
 
marcogr12
Posts: 449
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:52 am

Why does LOT booking show me flights from WAW to RHO,even OW i can book, but not the other way round? When i try RHO-WAW nothing comes up
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
artflyer
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:04 am

A330Inter wrote:
rafalyyz wrote:
They still haven't gone bankrupt? What's taking so long?


Isn't the government owning 100% of the company?
with a very ambitious expansion plan why would they completely change their mind and let it die?


A330Inter: it is not about letting anybody die, as they will certainly not die. The gov is now putting even more emphasis on the project (so-called CPK) of a new airport between Warsaw and Lodz as they believe public investments in infrustructure are the best way out of the current covid crisis. LO is certainly an important part of this project, as it is difficult to imagine this new bigger airport without an airline based there. Still it is a question about the best way forward - whether it will be LO 1.0 or a new company LO 2.0. I am not an insider, but to me it all depends on the negotiations with the lessors as I don't expect the gov would be willing to throw money at LO just to make sure lessors profit as if there was no covid, ie continue to get leasing fees at pre-covid levels. Pls see my post no. 228.
 
desmoLCY
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:24 pm

Re: LOT News Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:36 am

marcogr12 wrote:
Why does LOT booking show me flights from WAW to RHO,even OW i can book, but not the other way round? When i try RHO-WAW nothing comes up

Probably all the fares on the new routes are limited to itineraries starting in PL. With these prices you can always try booking WAW-RHO-WAW and hope they won't cancel your booking after a non-show for the outward flight.

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