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Nicknuzzii
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New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:31 pm

Continue last years thread here;

Last years; viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1417183&hilit=New+Jersey+aviation+thread

My predictions for 2020;

EWR-
UA- More regionals cuts, 2 new European routes announced for 2020
F9/NK- More adds during off peak hours
F9 cancels EWR - ONT
B6- More BOS/MCO/FLL/SJU - for SJU they have to stay competitive against F9 and NK
A new foreign carrier announces service for 2021, maybe Azul or Brussels airlines...

ACY- Stagnant, maybe more NK 321s or possible 3rd daily MCO

TTN- 2 new F9 adds maybe PNS and (SJU?!?)
MSP gets cut
MCO goes 2x daily for the summer
More frequencies across the board (maybe 11-12 flights a day?)

Please share your predictions below!
 
crjflyboy
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:28 am

Any word on TTN and a new terminal yet ? The bus terminal is busting at the seems.
 
Rossiya747
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:35 am

crjflyboy wrote:
Any word on TTN and a new terminal yet ? The bus terminal is busting at the seems.


Breeze/Moxy has shown interest in operating from TTN
223 319 320 321 332 333 346 388 734 737 738 739 38M 744 752 753 763 764 772 773 77W 788 789 208 CRJ2 E145 E190 UA DL AA WN AC CM 4O AV 2K FI DY D8 SK LH EI FR U2 IB OS LX BA VS BT PS MS SA SW QR EY HY AI 9W TG SQ MH AK D7 QZ BR NH CA QF MI LV/IB VY AL
 
crjflyboy
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:40 am

I don't think room exists for them
 
crjflyboy
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:41 am

I don't think room exists for them
 
N649DL
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:49 am

ACY is a bit surprising considering the role it's played over the years by being connected to other hubs in the Northeast and it's proximity to PHL. I'm a bit shocked that AA doesn't have service to DCA or PHL by now and I think it's long overdue for DL to at least have a CR7 or CR9 to ATL or DTW by this point. UA had a ridiculous ACY-IAH flight a few years ago that failed (but that's not surprising given the circumstances.)
 
nkops
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:32 am

I did see in the last update by Enilria that ACY will be getting a 3rd MCO and 3rd FLL flight from NK... seems like a good airport for AAY to try
Turn left heading 080 contact departure
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:29 pm

N649DL wrote:
ACY is a bit surprising considering the role it's played over the years by being connected to other hubs in the Northeast and it's proximity to PHL. I'm a bit shocked that AA doesn't have service to DCA or PHL by now and I think it's long overdue for DL to at least have a CR7 or CR9 to ATL or DTW by this point. UA had a ridiculous ACY-IAH flight a few years ago that failed (but that's not surprising given the circumstances.)


PHL and DCA?

You are channeling 1990 and J31s flying around the mid Atlantic
 
N649DL
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:32 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
N649DL wrote:
ACY is a bit surprising considering the role it's played over the years by being connected to other hubs in the Northeast and it's proximity to PHL. I'm a bit shocked that AA doesn't have service to DCA or PHL by now and I think it's long overdue for DL to at least have a CR7 or CR9 to ATL or DTW by this point. UA had a ridiculous ACY-IAH flight a few years ago that failed (but that's not surprising given the circumstances.)


PHL and DCA?

You are channeling 1990 and J31s flying around the mid Atlantic


So was ACY a tourist hotbed back in the early 1990s compared to now? I seriously doubt that, they even had 2x daily US DC-9 flights to PIT back then: http://www.departedflights.com/ACY91intro.html

When I think of the ACY Airport, I think of people in the Shore Regions, Delaware, South Jersey and parts of PA's alternative to PHL and EWR. To many those airports are way to far to drive to, hence why I'm surprised it hasn't grown more popular (IIRC, it also had at one point recently free overnight parking). That is unless NK has completely cornered the entire ACY market at this point.

IIRC, CO for many years flew ATRs on EWR-ACY-EWR as well.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:43 pm

I think ACY could benefit greatly from another carrier such as DL to ATL or AA to CLT.

TTN is in interest to Breeze according to the investor presentation. Seems like TTN May finally receive service to Phoenix, Denver, or even Los Angeles. Now for the new terminal I don’t know about.
 
crjflyboy
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:52 pm

N649DL wrote:
ACY is a bit surprising considering the role it's played over the years by being connected to other hubs in the Northeast and it's proximity to PHL. I'm a bit shocked that AA doesn't have service to DCA or PHL by now and I think it's long overdue for DL to at least have a CR7 or CR9 to ATL or DTW by this point. UA had a ridiculous ACY-IAH flight a few years ago that failed (but that's not surprising given the circumstances.)


I could see AA flights to CLT ... closest casino action is 180 miles away on a two lane dangerous road to get there.
 
N649DL
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:07 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
I think ACY could benefit greatly from another carrier such as DL to ATL or AA to CLT.

TTN is in interest to Breeze according to the investor presentation. Seems like TTN May finally receive service to Phoenix, Denver, or even Los Angeles. Now for the new terminal I don’t know about.


That's hard to imagine given how small the terminal and runways are. Are they serious about TTN-LAX flights?

I'd actually love to see NK add ACY-LAS and think could happen should they score a few gaming corporate contracts. There's also a lack of flights to connecting complexes in mid-continent hubs as well that could be great feeder opportunities (as already mentioned AA to CLT would be a logical one) but others that I think are realistic:

AA: ACY-MIA on an ERJ
DL: ACY-DTW on a CR7
AA: ACY-CLT or DFW on a 319
UA: ACY-DEN on E175
B6: ACY-BOS on E190
DL: ACY-ATL on M88 / M90 or CR9

This past summer I flew on DL AUS-ATL-BTV and ATL-BTV was on a 73G and I found that to be pretty impressive considering how infested BTV was with turboprops in the 1990s. Hence why I'm surprised they haven't made a play for ACY at all yet.
 
ddaly241
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:10 am

Why would United want to cut their regional service out of EWR. They should expand service from EWR.
 
crjflyboy
Posts: 456
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:17 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
I think ACY could benefit greatly from another carrier such as DL to ATL or AA to CLT.

TTN is in interest to Breeze according to the investor presentation. Seems like TTN May finally receive service to Phoenix, Denver, or even Los Angeles. Now for the new terminal I don’t know about.


6,000 foot runway creates limitations to your destinations.

This is a photo of the departure waiting area at TTN ... the facility does not even have room for 1 flight at a time today ...

http://hiddentrenton.com/wp-content/upl ... G_6116.jpg

4.4 Million awarded to " LOCATE " where the terminal could be 18 months ago.

https://njbiz.com/urban-engineers-selec ... rovements/

https://www.nj.com/news/2019/01/this-bu ... th-it.html

Not a word since ...
 
crjflyboy
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:20 am

N649DL wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
I think ACY could benefit greatly from another carrier such as DL to ATL or AA to CLT.

TTN is in interest to Breeze according to the investor presentation. Seems like TTN May finally receive service to Phoenix, Denver, or even Los Angeles. Now for the new terminal I don’t know about.


That's hard to imagine given how small the terminal and runways are. Are they serious about TTN-LAX flights?

I'd actually love to see NK add ACY-LAS and think could happen should they score a few gaming corporate contracts. There's also a lack of flights to connecting complexes in mid-continent hubs as well that could be great feeder opportunities (as already mentioned AA to CLT would be a logical one) but others that I think are realistic:

AA: ACY-MIA on an ERJ
DL: ACY-DTW on a CR7
AA: ACY-CLT or DFW on a 319
UA: ACY-DEN on E175
B6: ACY-BOS on E190
DL: ACY-ATL on M88 / M90 or CR9

This past summer I flew on DL AUS-ATL-BTV and ATL-BTV was on a 73G and I found that to be pretty impressive considering how infested BTV was with turboprops in the 1990s. Hence why I'm surprised they haven't made a play for ACY at all yet.


BTV is benefiting from the sky high taxes on Canadian fares
 
Nicknuzzii
Topic Author
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:29 am

N649DL wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
I think ACY could benefit greatly from another carrier such as DL to ATL or AA to CLT.

TTN is in interest to Breeze according to the investor presentation. Seems like TTN May finally receive service to Phoenix, Denver, or even Los Angeles. Now for the new terminal I don’t know about.


That's hard to imagine given how small the terminal and runways are. Are they serious about TTN-LAX flights?

I'd actually love to see NK add ACY-LAS and think could happen should they score a few gaming corporate contracts. There's also a lack of flights to connecting complexes in mid-continent hubs as well that could be great feeder opportunities (as already mentioned AA to CLT would be a logical one) but others that I think are realistic:

AA: ACY-MIA on an ERJ
DL: ACY-DTW on a CR7
AA: ACY-CLT or DFW on a 319
UA: ACY-DEN on E175
B6: ACY-BOS on E190
DL: ACY-ATL on M88 / M90 or CR9

This past summer I flew on DL AUS-ATL-BTV and ATL-BTV was on a 73G and I found that to be pretty impressive considering how infested BTV was with turboprops in the 1990s. Hence why I'm surprised they haven't made a play for ACY at all yet.


While I’m not an expert on technical stats I was under the impression that the A220 which Breeze will eventually fly would be able to use a 6,000 ft runway and fly transcon. Now the terminal is another story but somehow F9 at times manages to fit 3 flights at a time.

Now for ACY I definitely do believe NK could make LAS/SJU/ MSY work. On certain days of the week this summer NK is actually up to 11 flights. Is that the most it has been in a while now?
 
N649DL
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:30 am

ddaly241 wrote:
Why would United want to cut their regional service out of EWR. They should expand service from EWR.


If anything, UA has been shifting more regional service out of EWR in favor of IAD. Remember UA did fly ACY-ORD/IAH for "political reasons" and essentially got busted as well.
 
Nicknuzzii
Topic Author
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:30 am

ddaly241 wrote:
Why would United want to cut their regional service out of EWR. They should expand service from EWR.


EWR is very constrained so United it trying focus on larger and more profitable flying.
 
 
N47
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:50 am

N649DL wrote:
ACY is a bit surprising considering the role it's played over the years by being connected to other hubs in the Northeast and it's proximity to PHL. I'm a bit shocked that AA doesn't have service to DCA or PHL by now and I think it's long overdue for DL to at least have a CR7 or CR9 to ATL or DTW by this point. UA had a ridiculous ACY-IAH flight a few years ago that failed (but that's not surprising given the circumstances.)


I agree it is rather suprising. I think south jersey is growing in population so maybe in the near future we can see a US3 to a hub. I live near and work at ACY and to go anywhete besides florida we have to drive an hour to philly or 2 hrs to newark. A crj to ORD EWR ATL or even DCA would be great.

The FAA contracts a J31 operator to shuttle employees between FAA tech center (ACY) and HQ (thru DCA) twice daily M-Th. Even with that capacity theres always a wait list and often times ppl have to take train from PHL for meetings and such.
 
N649DL
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:08 am

N47 wrote:
N649DL wrote:
ACY is a bit surprising considering the role it's played over the years by being connected to other hubs in the Northeast and it's proximity to PHL. I'm a bit shocked that AA doesn't have service to DCA or PHL by now and I think it's long overdue for DL to at least have a CR7 or CR9 to ATL or DTW by this point. UA had a ridiculous ACY-IAH flight a few years ago that failed (but that's not surprising given the circumstances.)


I agree it is rather suprising. I think south jersey is growing in population so maybe in the near future we can see a US3 to a hub. I live near and work at ACY and to go anywhete besides florida we have to drive an hour to philly or 2 hrs to newark. A crj to ORD EWR ATL or even DCA would be great.

The FAA contracts a J31 operator to shuttle employees between FAA tech center (ACY) and HQ (thru DCA) twice daily M-Th. Even with that capacity theres always a wait list and often times ppl have to take train from PHL for meetings and such.


That's interesting. That could be a perfect DH8 route on American Eagle then to DCA then. UA on ACY-IAD on a CRJ would also be cool (considering most of those employees probably reside closer to IAD anyway in NOVA.)
 
ddaly241
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:40 am

Do you think united will be able to expand out of EWR, once the new terminal 1 opens?
 
crjflyboy
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:49 am

ddaly241 wrote:
Do you think united will be able to expand out of EWR, once the new terminal 1 opens?


Lack of runways is the main issue at EWR ... and no room to build
 
jeffh747
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:12 am

N649DL wrote:
ACY is a bit surprising considering the role it's played over the years by being connected to other hubs in the Northeast and it's proximity to PHL. I'm a bit shocked that AA doesn't have service to DCA or PHL by now and I think it's long overdue for DL to at least have a CR7 or CR9 to ATL or DTW by this point. UA had a ridiculous ACY-IAH flight a few years ago that failed (but that's not surprising given the circumstances.)

A grand total of 0 people would fly between PHL and ACY. It would be like what? A 10 minute flight from gear up to gear down? Philly is barely 45 minutes to the shore and there’s no chance anybody living in AC would go through the hassle of hopping on a plane for half an hour to get to PHL. If the the idea is that they could then connect, it still wouldn’t make sense at all. Might as well just drive the extra few minutes to Philly for a nonstop.

DCA makes even less sense, given that, as demonstrated above, there’s already a nonstop from the ACY area. It’s from PHL. As someone who grew up in South Jersey, roughly in between PHL and ACY, I would love nothing more than to see ACY get more airlines and more destinations. But PHL/DCA would simply not work in today’s airline environment.

ACY does well at the moment for what it’s supposed to be. It’s a lower cost alternative to for travelers in South Jersey/ SE PA/Delaware, who would otherwise be flying out of PHL/NYC/WAS. I can see DL adding a pair of RJs to ATL/DTW, but as far as new entrants (bar Breeze) go, I can’t see anybody else making ACY work for them, that NK wouldn’t crush.
ATR-72-600, A318 A319 A320 A320neo A321 A321neo A332 A333 B717 B727 B734 B73G B738 B739 B752 B762 B763 B772 B788 CRJ2 DHC6 DHC8-300 E145 E190 MD82 MD83 MD90 SF340B
 
crjflyboy
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:20 am

Before Spirit became the Spirit we know today ... they got their start flying from DTW to ACY due to the ACY casinos ... they were able to draw from all over metro Detroit - Toledo - Windsor across the border. They used DC 9 aircraft and fares were dirt cheap ... 29 each way and the CASINOS gave you free chips when you got off the plane at ACY,

https://www.flickr.com/photos/aero_icarus/12788266373
 
gdavis003
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:26 am

The cost of a one way NJ Transit ticket from Princeton (closest station to where I am) to EWR is now $21.25. Have continuously increased the fare. Absurd. And EWR just sucks, especially since I usually fly Delta and Delta terminal at EWR is awful

Being situated right between EWR and PHL and the train ticket to PHL (even though it takes much longer) on NJT/SEPTA is only $16, I'll be flying out of PHL from now on. Much, much better than crappy EWR. I'm definitely closest to TTN but that's out of the question, not messing with Frontier.
 
crownvic
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:46 am

crjflyboy wrote:


Putting my historical "cap" on, the only air service I can recall over the past 60 years at Cape May was Eastern with Martins (not 100% sure on that) and Allegheny with Martins/Convairs/Friendships. Most of these flights were "milk runs" that started in coastal northern NJ towns and just worked their way down the coast, then over to Maryland and D.C. ...For the younger generation reading this post, during the 40s, 50s, 60s and into the early 70s, airlines operated routes like the rail lines did. They would take planes and just fly a route that may have had 15 stops in a day. This was repeated everyday throughout America serving small towns where the aircraft would eventually reach a big city. Fares were generally rather low and you could take a flight for say $20 and literally ride on it all day. Sadly, these days are long gone and most small cities have lost all of their air service including Cape May, Millville and Monmouth County in NJ. Cape May even had an airline back in the 1950s based their called United States Overseas Airways (USOA) that was a long haul, worldwide airline flying Douglas pistons. Although most flights departed from New York, their HQ was at Cape May

Later on, Allegheny Commuter (Southern Jersey Airways/Atlantic City Airlines) Twin Otters took over the Allegheny flying sometime in the late 60s. Sadly, as the Allegheny Commuter service wound down sometime in the early 80s, all of the New Jersey small towns lost their air service, except for AIY/ACY. I think the biggest problem now at Cape May is the runway length with nothing over 5000'. That precludes most commercial jet operations. There are just no more turbo prop operators in the region, so this really limits any chance of this airport ever seeing air service again.
 
N649DL
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:07 am

jeffh747 wrote:
N649DL wrote:
ACY is a bit surprising considering the role it's played over the years by being connected to other hubs in the Northeast and it's proximity to PHL. I'm a bit shocked that AA doesn't have service to DCA or PHL by now and I think it's long overdue for DL to at least have a CR7 or CR9 to ATL or DTW by this point. UA had a ridiculous ACY-IAH flight a few years ago that failed (but that's not surprising given the circumstances.)

A grand total of 0 people would fly between PHL and ACY. It would be like what? A 10 minute flight from gear up to gear down? Philly is barely 45 minutes to the shore and there’s no chance anybody living in AC would go through the hassle of hopping on a plane for half an hour to get to PHL. If the the idea is that they could then connect, it still wouldn’t make sense at all. Might as well just drive the extra few minutes to Philly for a nonstop.

DCA makes even less sense, given that, as demonstrated above, there’s already a nonstop from the ACY area. It’s from PHL. As someone who grew up in South Jersey, roughly in between PHL and ACY, I would love nothing more than to see ACY get more airlines and more destinations. But PHL/DCA would simply not work in today’s airline environment.

ACY does well at the moment for what it’s supposed to be. It’s a lower cost alternative to for travelers in South Jersey/ SE PA/Delaware, who would otherwise be flying out of PHL/NYC/WAS. I can see DL adding a pair of RJs to ATL/DTW, but as far as new entrants (bar Breeze) go, I can’t see anybody else making ACY work for them, that NK wouldn’t crush.


You should stop twisting my words: My point is ACY is an easier drive in South Jersey and DE and Parts to PA over EWR or PHL. Stop twisting those words ASAP and learn to read and stop trolling.

gdavis003 wrote:
The cost of a one way NJ Transit ticket from Princeton (closest station to where I am) to EWR is now $21.25. Have continuously increased the fare. Absurd. And EWR just sucks, especially since I usually fly Delta and Delta terminal at EWR is awful

Being situated right between EWR and PHL and the train ticket to PHL (even though it takes much longer) on NJT/SEPTA is only $16, I'll be flying out of PHL from now on. Much, much better than crappy EWR. I'm definitely closest to TTN but that's out of the question, not messing with Frontier.


I hope you know DL just redid their SC at EWR in Terminal and it's a *LOT* better than any of the United Clubs in Terminal C at the moment. The DL Terminal in B is more relaxing without crowds than anything in United's S***hole of a Terminal in C.
 
nkops
Posts: 2237
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:09 am

Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:06 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
N649DL wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
I think ACY could benefit greatly from another carrier such as DL to ATL or AA to CLT.

TTN is in interest to Breeze according to the investor presentation. Seems like TTN May finally receive service to Phoenix, Denver, or even Los Angeles. Now for the new terminal I don’t know about.


That's hard to imagine given how small the terminal and runways are. Are they serious about TTN-LAX flights?

I'd actually love to see NK add ACY-LAS and think could happen should they score a few gaming corporate contracts. There's also a lack of flights to connecting complexes in mid-continent hubs as well that could be great feeder opportunities (as already mentioned AA to CLT would be a logical one) but others that I think are realistic:

AA: ACY-MIA on an ERJ
DL: ACY-DTW on a CR7
AA: ACY-CLT or DFW on a 319
UA: ACY-DEN on E175
B6: ACY-BOS on E190
DL: ACY-ATL on M88 / M90 or CR9

This past summer I flew on DL AUS-ATL-BTV and ATL-BTV was on a 73G and I found that to be pretty impressive considering how infested BTV was with turboprops in the 1990s. Hence why I'm surprised they haven't made a play for ACY at all yet.


While I’m not an expert on technical stats I was under the impression that the A220 which Breeze will eventually fly would be able to use a 6,000 ft runway and fly transcon. Now the terminal is another story but somehow F9 at times manages to fit 3 flights at a time.

Now for ACY I definitely do believe NK could make LAS/SJU/ MSY work. On certain days of the week this summer NK is actually up to 11 flights. Is that the most it has been in a while now?


NK did try LAS , SJU and MSY in the past... MSY more recently. LAS is the only one that seemed to work, but that's when gas prices soared to something like $120/bbl. SJU and MSY performed awful.
Having worked in ACY for 20 years before moving, I can tell you at one point or another every airline was in and out of there. I am actually surprised no one has ever tried seasonal service (except AC) .. My thought is AA CLT-ACY in an ERJ from Memorial Day to Labor Day may work. AirTran made a pretty good run there before WN bought them and closed shop.

One of the other problems is the SJTA doesn't have the deep pockets for incentives as say the PANYNJ would have.. There was talks of Port Authority buying ACY but don't know if that is still a plan
Turn left heading 080 contact departure
 
Nicknuzzii
Topic Author
Posts: 1248
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:16 am

nkops wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
N649DL wrote:

That's hard to imagine given how small the terminal and runways are. Are they serious about TTN-LAX flights?

I'd actually love to see NK add ACY-LAS and think could happen should they score a few gaming corporate contracts. There's also a lack of flights to connecting complexes in mid-continent hubs as well that could be great feeder opportunities (as already mentioned AA to CLT would be a logical one) but others that I think are realistic:

AA: ACY-MIA on an ERJ
DL: ACY-DTW on a CR7
AA: ACY-CLT or DFW on a 319
UA: ACY-DEN on E175
B6: ACY-BOS on E190
DL: ACY-ATL on M88 / M90 or CR9

This past summer I flew on DL AUS-ATL-BTV and ATL-BTV was on a 73G and I found that to be pretty impressive considering how infested BTV was with turboprops in the 1990s. Hence why I'm surprised they haven't made a play for ACY at all yet.


While I’m not an expert on technical stats I was under the impression that the A220 which Breeze will eventually fly would be able to use a 6,000 ft runway and fly transcon. Now the terminal is another story but somehow F9 at times manages to fit 3 flights at a time.

Now for ACY I definitely do believe NK could make LAS/SJU/ MSY work. On certain days of the week this summer NK is actually up to 11 flights. Is that the most it has been in a while now?


NK did try LAS , SJU and MSY in the past... MSY more recently. LAS is the only one that seemed to work, but that's when gas prices soared to something like $120/bbl. SJU and MSY performed awful.
Having worked in ACY for 20 years before moving, I can tell you at one point or another every airline was in and out of there. I am actually surprised no one has ever tried seasonal service (except AC) .. My thought is AA CLT-ACY in an ERJ from Memorial Day to Labor Day may work. AirTran made a pretty good run there before WN bought them and closed shop.

One of the other problems is the SJTA doesn't have the deep pockets for incentives as say the PANYNJ would have.. There was talks of Port Authority buying ACY but don't know if that is still a plan


Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think MSY did as bad as you believe, I think when it was daily the LF were in the 70%s and NK could have really tried to build up that route.
 
gdavis003
Posts: 227
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:59 am

Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:32 pm

N649DL wrote:
jeffh747 wrote:
N649DL wrote:
ACY is a bit surprising considering the role it's played over the years by being connected to other hubs in the Northeast and it's proximity to PHL. I'm a bit shocked that AA doesn't have service to DCA or PHL by now and I think it's long overdue for DL to at least have a CR7 or CR9 to ATL or DTW by this point. UA had a ridiculous ACY-IAH flight a few years ago that failed (but that's not surprising given the circumstances.)

A grand total of 0 people would fly between PHL and ACY. It would be like what? A 10 minute flight from gear up to gear down? Philly is barely 45 minutes to the shore and there’s no chance anybody living in AC would go through the hassle of hopping on a plane for half an hour to get to PHL. If the the idea is that they could then connect, it still wouldn’t make sense at all. Might as well just drive the extra few minutes to Philly for a nonstop.

DCA makes even less sense, given that, as demonstrated above, there’s already a nonstop from the ACY area. It’s from PHL. As someone who grew up in South Jersey, roughly in between PHL and ACY, I would love nothing more than to see ACY get more airlines and more destinations. But PHL/DCA would simply not work in today’s airline environment.

ACY does well at the moment for what it’s supposed to be. It’s a lower cost alternative to for travelers in South Jersey/ SE PA/Delaware, who would otherwise be flying out of PHL/NYC/WAS. I can see DL adding a pair of RJs to ATL/DTW, but as far as new entrants (bar Breeze) go, I can’t see anybody else making ACY work for them, that NK wouldn’t crush.


You should stop twisting my words: My point is ACY is an easier drive in South Jersey and DE and Parts to PA over EWR or PHL. Stop twisting those words ASAP and learn to read and stop trolling.

gdavis003 wrote:
The cost of a one way NJ Transit ticket from Princeton (closest station to where I am) to EWR is now $21.25. Have continuously increased the fare. Absurd. And EWR just sucks, especially since I usually fly Delta and Delta terminal at EWR is awful

Being situated right between EWR and PHL and the train ticket to PHL (even though it takes much longer) on NJT/SEPTA is only $16, I'll be flying out of PHL from now on. Much, much better than crappy EWR. I'm definitely closest to TTN but that's out of the question, not messing with Frontier.


I hope you know DL just redid their SC at EWR in Terminal and it's a *LOT* better than any of the United Clubs in Terminal C at the moment. The DL Terminal in B is more relaxing without crowds than anything in United's S***hole of a Terminal in C.


I did notice that but I don’t have SC access. Pretty much everything about flying out of PHL is better than flying out of EWR. At least PHL has WN as well
 
crjflyboy
Posts: 456
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:01 pm

crownvic wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:


Putting my historical "cap" on, the only air service I can recall over the past 60 years at Cape May was Eastern with Martins (not 100% sure on that) and Allegheny with Martins/Convairs/Friendships. Most of these flights were "milk runs" that started in coastal northern NJ towns and just worked their way down the coast, then over to Maryland and D.C. ...For the younger generation reading this post, during the 40s, 50s, 60s and into the early 70s, airlines operated routes like the rail lines did. They would take planes and just fly a route that may have had 15 stops in a day. This was repeated everyday throughout America serving small towns where the aircraft would eventually reach a big city. Fares were generally rather low and you could take a flight for say $20 and literally ride on it all day. Sadly, these days are long gone and most small cities have lost all of their air service including Cape May, Millville and Monmouth County in NJ. Cape May even had an airline back in the 1950s based their called United States Overseas Airways (USOA) that was a long haul, worldwide airline flying Douglas pistons. Although most flights departed from New York, their HQ was at Cape May

Excellent walk back in time
Later on, Allegheny Commuter (Southern Jersey Airways/Atlantic City Airlines) Twin Otters took over the Allegheny flying sometime in the late 60s. Sadly, as the Allegheny Commuter service wound down sometime in the early 80s, all of the New Jersey small towns lost their air service, except for AIY/ACY. I think the biggest problem now at Cape May is the runway length with nothing over 5000'. That precludes most commercial jet operations. There are just no more turbo prop operators in the region, so this really limits any chance of this airport ever seeing air service again.
 
crjflyboy
Posts: 456
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:03 pm

gdavis003 wrote:
The cost of a one way NJ Transit ticket from Princeton (closest station to where I am) to EWR is now $21.25. Have continuously increased the fare. Absurd. And EWR just sucks, especially since I usually fly Delta and Delta terminal at EWR is awful

Being situated right between EWR and PHL and the train ticket to PHL (even though it takes much longer) on NJT/SEPTA is only $16, I'll be flying out of PHL from now on. Much, much better than crappy EWR. I'm definitely closest to TTN but that's out of the question, not messing with Frontier.


If TTN built a new terminal, more airlines, more destinations, would that change anything ?
 
gdavis003
Posts: 227
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:11 pm

crjflyboy wrote:
gdavis003 wrote:
The cost of a one way NJ Transit ticket from Princeton (closest station to where I am) to EWR is now $21.25. Have continuously increased the fare. Absurd. And EWR just sucks, especially since I usually fly Delta and Delta terminal at EWR is awful

Being situated right between EWR and PHL and the train ticket to PHL (even though it takes much longer) on NJT/SEPTA is only $16, I'll be flying out of PHL from now on. Much, much better than crappy EWR. I'm definitely closest to TTN but that's out of the question, not messing with Frontier.


If TTN built a new terminal, more airlines, more destinations, would that change anything ?


Absolutely. If TTN was able to attract airlines other than Frontier and built a new terminal, I would definitely consider it, as it's definitely the closest airport. But, I wonder what the likelihood is that TTN would ever attract UA, AA, DL or even WN. Would prefer to use one of those four. With the way it is now though, there's no chance I'm flying out of TTN. PHL usually unless EWR is cheaper (which it was when I flew to Europe on UA the other week).
 
F27500
Posts: 831
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:19 pm

In the mid to late 90s, i recall CO's hub in EWR that had service to some very near by airports .. with ATR42/72, Brasilia, 1900Ds and even EMB145s operating some really short routes .. i remember:

EWR-HVN
EWR-BDR
EWR-GON
EWR-ABE
EWR-HPN
EWR-ISP
EWR-AVP
EWR-ACY
EWR-PHL

I worked in HVN for US at the time ... remember those CO EWR flights always delayed due to ATC .. ..always. Eventually these short hauls went away (with the prop planes being removed from the fleet) .. and the EMB145s being put on longer hauls. Interesting times, though! Hard to imagine routes like this nowadays.
 
crjflyboy
Posts: 456
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:52 pm

gdavis003 wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
gdavis003 wrote:
The cost of a one way NJ Transit ticket from Princeton (closest station to where I am) to EWR is now $21.25. Have continuously increased the fare. Absurd. And EWR just sucks, especially since I usually fly Delta and Delta terminal at EWR is awful

Being situated right between EWR and PHL and the train ticket to PHL (even though it takes much longer) on NJT/SEPTA is only $16, I'll be flying out of PHL from now on. Much, much better than crappy EWR. I'm definitely closest to TTN but that's out of the question, not messing with Frontier.


If TTN built a new terminal, more airlines, more destinations, would that change anything ?


Absolutely. If TTN was able to attract airlines other than Frontier and built a new terminal, I would definitely consider it, as it's definitely the closest airport. But, I wonder what the likelihood is that TTN would ever attract UA, AA, DL or even WN. Would prefer to use one of those four. With the way it is now though, there's no chance I'm flying out of TTN. PHL usually unless EWR is cheaper (which it was when I flew to Europe on UA the other week).


With the new terminal that is being talked about, I could see service to ATL, CLT, DTW, ORD, IAD ...
 
nkops
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:23 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
nkops wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

While I’m not an expert on technical stats I was under the impression that the A220 which Breeze will eventually fly would be able to use a 6,000 ft runway and fly transcon. Now the terminal is another story but somehow F9 at times manages to fit 3 flights at a time.

Now for ACY I definitely do believe NK could make LAS/SJU/ MSY work. On certain days of the week this summer NK is actually up to 11 flights. Is that the most it has been in a while now?


NK did try LAS , SJU and MSY in the past... MSY more recently. LAS is the only one that seemed to work, but that's when gas prices soared to something like $120/bbl. SJU and MSY performed awful.
Having worked in ACY for 20 years before moving, I can tell you at one point or another every airline was in and out of there. I am actually surprised no one has ever tried seasonal service (except AC) .. My thought is AA CLT-ACY in an ERJ from Memorial Day to Labor Day may work. AirTran made a pretty good run there before WN bought them and closed shop.

One of the other problems is the SJTA doesn't have the deep pockets for incentives as say the PANYNJ would have.. There was talks of Port Authority buying ACY but don't know if that is still a plan


Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think MSY did as bad as you believe, I think when it was daily the LF were in the 70%s and NK could have really tried to build up that route.


It's possible, they did MSY after I had left so I just got second hand info from people that were still working there.. I don't remember it being daily just 4x weekly. I was told the LF wasn't too bad but the yield was awful as they had to drop prices to fill seats.
Turn left heading 080 contact departure
 
Nicknuzzii
Topic Author
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:09 pm

nkops wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
nkops wrote:

NK did try LAS , SJU and MSY in the past... MSY more recently. LAS is the only one that seemed to work, but that's when gas prices soared to something like $120/bbl. SJU and MSY performed awful.
Having worked in ACY for 20 years before moving, I can tell you at one point or another every airline was in and out of there. I am actually surprised no one has ever tried seasonal service (except AC) .. My thought is AA CLT-ACY in an ERJ from Memorial Day to Labor Day may work. AirTran made a pretty good run there before WN bought them and closed shop.

One of the other problems is the SJTA doesn't have the deep pockets for incentives as say the PANYNJ would have.. There was talks of Port Authority buying ACY but don't know if that is still a plan


Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think MSY did as bad as you believe, I think when it was daily the LF were in the 70%s and NK could have really tried to build up that route.


It's possible, they did MSY after I had left so I just got second hand info from people that were still working there.. I don't remember it being daily just 4x weekly. I was told the LF wasn't too bad but the yield was awful as they had to drop prices to fill seats.


Oh the article I read at launch said daily but wouldn’t be surprised if that was wrong. Anyone you know there have any indication of more flights or service?
 
jeffh747
Posts: 863
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:44 am

N649DL wrote:
jeffh747 wrote:
N649DL wrote:
ACY is a bit surprising considering the role it's played over the years by being connected to other hubs in the Northeast and it's proximity to PHL. I'm a bit shocked that AA doesn't have service to DCA or PHL by now and I think it's long overdue for DL to at least have a CR7 or CR9 to ATL or DTW by this point. UA had a ridiculous ACY-IAH flight a few years ago that failed (but that's not surprising given the circumstances.)

A grand total of 0 people would fly between PHL and ACY. It would be like what? A 10 minute flight from gear up to gear down? Philly is barely 45 minutes to the shore and there’s no chance anybody living in AC would go through the hassle of hopping on a plane for half an hour to get to PHL. If the the idea is that they could then connect, it still wouldn’t make sense at all. Might as well just drive the extra few minutes to Philly for a nonstop.

DCA makes even less sense, given that, as demonstrated above, there’s already a nonstop from the ACY area. It’s from PHL. As someone who grew up in South Jersey, roughly in between PHL and ACY, I would love nothing more than to see ACY get more airlines and more destinations. But PHL/DCA would simply not work in today’s airline environment.

ACY does well at the moment for what it’s supposed to be. It’s a lower cost alternative to for travelers in South Jersey/ SE PA/Delaware, who would otherwise be flying out of PHL/NYC/WAS. I can see DL adding a pair of RJs to ATL/DTW, but as far as new entrants (bar Breeze) go, I can’t see anybody else making ACY work for them, that NK wouldn’t crush.


You should stop twisting my words: My point is ACY is an easier drive in South Jersey and DE and Parts to PA over EWR or PHL. Stop twisting those words ASAP and learn to read and stop trolling.

gdavis003 wrote:
The cost of a one way NJ Transit ticket from Princeton (closest station to where I am) to EWR is now $21.25. Have continuously increased the fare. Absurd. And EWR just sucks, especially since I usually fly Delta and Delta terminal at EWR is awful

Being situated right between EWR and PHL and the train ticket to PHL (even though it takes much longer) on NJT/SEPTA is only $16, I'll be flying out of PHL from now on. Much, much better than crappy EWR. I'm definitely closest to TTN but that's out of the question, not messing with Frontier.


I hope you know DL just redid their SC at EWR in Terminal and it's a *LOT* better than any of the United Clubs in Terminal C at the moment. The DL Terminal in B is more relaxing without crowds than anything in United's S***hole of a Terminal in C.


Dude you literally said you were shocked AA doesn’t fly ACY-PHL/DCA. I pointed out how ridiculous that would be. No words twisting. Please enlighten me which parts of PA is ACY an easier drive to than Newark or Philly? South Jersey, sure, shore areas might appreciate ACY being a more convenient drive. But if they want to fly anywhere that NK doesn’t serve, PHL/EWR aren’t a far drive at all that would necessitate AA having a flight. Delaware- unless you’re taking the ferry, I’m not sure which areas have an easier drive to ACY from PHL, so I would honestly like to know that if you happen to know.
ATR-72-600, A318 A319 A320 A320neo A321 A321neo A332 A333 B717 B727 B734 B73G B738 B739 B752 B762 B763 B772 B788 CRJ2 DHC6 DHC8-300 E145 E190 MD82 MD83 MD90 SF340B
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:14 am

On EWR---how did United get beaten to the punch on BLR? That is a route with good tech volume and business traffic---granted, AI already flies BLR-DEL-SFO. However, United has traditionally been the carrier taking plunges into ULR among the US3.

To this end, I expect that soon, all SFO-EWR, and most if not all LAX-EWR, service will be on internationally-configured planes, primarily the B789 and B78X, with those old p.s. planes finally retired (the oldest one is 31 years old). If BLR is announced, UA will need to rotate another B789 through EWR to make that happen (there is one rotated that 3x weekly then continues on to CPT).

As for smaller regional traffic, I expect that to decrease to the point where more is funneled to IAD and other markets are only timed for the morning arrivals from India, and then the arrivals starting with the noontime bank, followed by arrivals to feed the long-haul departure bank in the evening. After all, UA can't really add flights---only up-gauge.
 
N649DL
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:42 am

jeffh747 wrote:
N649DL wrote:
jeffh747 wrote:
A grand total of 0 people would fly between PHL and ACY. It would be like what? A 10 minute flight from gear up to gear down? Philly is barely 45 minutes to the shore and there’s no chance anybody living in AC would go through the hassle of hopping on a plane for half an hour to get to PHL. If the the idea is that they could then connect, it still wouldn’t make sense at all. Might as well just drive the extra few minutes to Philly for a nonstop.

DCA makes even less sense, given that, as demonstrated above, there’s already a nonstop from the ACY area. It’s from PHL. As someone who grew up in South Jersey, roughly in between PHL and ACY, I would love nothing more than to see ACY get more airlines and more destinations. But PHL/DCA would simply not work in today’s airline environment.

ACY does well at the moment for what it’s supposed to be. It’s a lower cost alternative to for travelers in South Jersey/ SE PA/Delaware, who would otherwise be flying out of PHL/NYC/WAS. I can see DL adding a pair of RJs to ATL/DTW, but as far as new entrants (bar Breeze) go, I can’t see anybody else making ACY work for them, that NK wouldn’t crush.


You should stop twisting my words: My point is ACY is an easier drive in South Jersey and DE and Parts to PA over EWR or PHL. Stop twisting those words ASAP and learn to read and stop trolling.

gdavis003 wrote:
The cost of a one way NJ Transit ticket from Princeton (closest station to where I am) to EWR is now $21.25. Have continuously increased the fare. Absurd. And EWR just sucks, especially since I usually fly Delta and Delta terminal at EWR is awful

Being situated right between EWR and PHL and the train ticket to PHL (even though it takes much longer) on NJT/SEPTA is only $16, I'll be flying out of PHL from now on. Much, much better than crappy EWR. I'm definitely closest to TTN but that's out of the question, not messing with Frontier.


I hope you know DL just redid their SC at EWR in Terminal and it's a *LOT* better than any of the United Clubs in Terminal C at the moment. The DL Terminal in B is more relaxing without crowds than anything in United's S***hole of a Terminal in C.


Dude you literally said you were shocked AA doesn’t fly ACY-PHL/DCA. I pointed out how ridiculous that would be. No words twisting. Please enlighten me which parts of PA is ACY an easier drive to than Newark or Philly? South Jersey, sure, shore areas might appreciate ACY being a more convenient drive. But if they want to fly anywhere that NK doesn’t serve, PHL/EWR aren’t a far drive at all that would necessitate AA having a flight. Delaware- unless you’re taking the ferry, I’m not sure which areas have an easier drive to ACY from PHL, so I would honestly like to know that if you happen to know.


It's because it's not all that surprising considering US flew both many routes out of ACY for years and gave up on it when they started slashing a lot of it's feeder operation(s) (EG: ACY-BWI). All I'm saying is the potential is there for competition, especially since they have a new terminal there.

I grew up in NJ and it's commonly known that ACY and a lot of the South Jersey Shore regions cater more to the PHL area as it's around an hour to get there versus Northern NJ which can take 2.5 hours to get down there. Traffic is generally a bottleneck at all points during the peak season from Northern NJ to the shore towns with lots of tolls to boot. So it's a major P.I.T.A for people living in shore areas to get up to EWR in general. Also lot's of shoddy state roads for shore folks to get back to the Parkway to get up north which are poorly lit with bad road signs and time consuming. The only thing shore folks have that is convenient to the New York Airports is the Ferry (JFK might even be easier since the departure and arrival path crosses over it around Perth Amboy, NJ and you can use one of the interchanges from the shore to get over to JFK as well.) and NJT rail service. PHL has direct NJT access to ACY which is a lot faster than heading back up north to EWR. Driving from PHL to EWR can take also 2.5 hours unless you choose to use Amtrak and pay through the nose.

If you live in PHL and want alternatives, there's always ABE or MDT but those aren't close. ACY could be a demand market for them as much as someone who lives in the Pine Barron's in NJ.

aemoreira1981 wrote:
On EWR---how did United get beaten to the punch on BLR? That is a route with good tech volume and business traffic---granted, AI already flies BLR-DEL-SFO. However, United has traditionally been the carrier taking plunges into ULR among the US3.

To this end, I expect that soon, all SFO-EWR, and most if not all LAX-EWR, service will be on internationally-configured planes, primarily the B789 and B78X, with those old p.s. planes finally retired (the oldest one is 31 years old). If BLR is announced, UA will need to rotate another B789 through EWR to make that happen (there is one rotated that 3x weekly then continues on to CPT).

As for smaller regional traffic, I expect that to decrease to the point where more is funneled to IAD and other markets are only timed for the morning arrivals from India, and then the arrivals starting with the noontime bank, followed by arrivals to feed the long-haul departure bank in the evening. After all, UA can't really add flights---only up-gauge.


Long over-hyped around here that UA would ever launch EWR-BLR. It's a niche market and NYC area to India has a lot of competition. I honestly don't think AA's SEA-BLR service will stick around all that long, except they were probably trying to beat UA to it from SFO.
 
nkops
Posts: 2237
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:57 am

N649DL wrote:
jeffh747 wrote:
N649DL wrote:

You should stop twisting my words: My point is ACY is an easier drive in South Jersey and DE and Parts to PA over EWR or PHL. Stop twisting those words ASAP and learn to read and stop trolling.



I hope you know DL just redid their SC at EWR in Terminal and it's a *LOT* better than any of the United Clubs in Terminal C at the moment. The DL Terminal in B is more relaxing without crowds than anything in United's S***hole of a Terminal in C.


Dude you literally said you were shocked AA doesn’t fly ACY-PHL/DCA. I pointed out how ridiculous that would be. No words twisting. Please enlighten me which parts of PA is ACY an easier drive to than Newark or Philly? South Jersey, sure, shore areas might appreciate ACY being a more convenient drive. But if they want to fly anywhere that NK doesn’t serve, PHL/EWR aren’t a far drive at all that would necessitate AA having a flight. Delaware- unless you’re taking the ferry, I’m not sure which areas have an easier drive to ACY from PHL, so I would honestly like to know that if you happen to know.


It's because it's not all that surprising considering US flew both many routes out of ACY for years and gave up on it when they started slashing a lot of it's feeder operation(s) (EG: ACY-BWI). All I'm saying is the potential is there for competition, especially since they have a new terminal there.



I grew up in NJ and it's commonly known that ACY and a lot of the South Jersey Shore regions cater more to the PHL area as it's around an hour to get there versus Northern NJ which can take 2.5 hours to get down there. Traffic is generally a bottleneck at all points during the peak season from Northern NJ to the shore towns with lots of tolls to boot. So it's a major P.I.T.A for people living in shore areas to get up to EWR in general. Also lot's of shoddy state roads for shore folks to get back to the Parkway to get up north which are poorly lit with bad road signs and time consuming. The only thing shore folks have that is convenient to the New York Airports is the Ferry (JFK might even be easier since the departure and arrival path crosses over it around Perth Amboy, NJ and you can use one of the interchanges from the shore to get over to JFK as well.) and NJT rail service. PHL has direct NJT access to ACY which is a lot faster than heading back up north to EWR. Driving from PHL to EWR can take also 2.5 hours unless you choose to use Amtrak and pay through the nose.

If you live in PHL and want alternatives, there's always ABE or MDT but those aren't close. ACY could be a demand market for them as much as someone who lives in the Pine Barron's in NJ.

aemoreira1981 wrote:
On EWR---how did United get beaten to the punch on BLR? That is a route with good tech volume and business traffic---granted, AI already flies BLR-DEL-SFO. However, United has traditionally been the carrier taking plunges into ULR among the US3.

To this end, I expect that soon, all SFO-EWR, and most if not all LAX-EWR, service will be on internationally-configured planes, primarily the B789 and B78X, with those old p.s. planes finally retired (the oldest one is 31 years old). If BLR is announced, UA will need to rotate another B789 through EWR to make that happen (there is one rotated that 3x weekly then continues on to CPT).

As for smaller regional traffic, I expect that to decrease to the point where more is funneled to IAD and other markets are only timed for the morning arrivals from India, and then the arrivals starting with the noontime bank, followed by arrivals to feed the long-haul departure bank in the evening. After all, UA can't really add flights---only up-gauge.


Long over-hyped around here that UA would ever launch EWR-BLR. It's a niche market and NYC area to India has a lot of competition. I honestly don't think AA's SEA-BLR service will stick around all that long, except they were probably trying to beat UA to it from SFO.


The reason those short hops won't work now is because back when US was doing the ACY-PHL/LGA/BWI hops, they were using the B1900 (Air Midwest).. At the time , the 1900 operated under part 135 regs so it was cheaper to operate. When regs changed and the aircraft fell under part 121, the aircraft become an overnight money loser and there was no replacement for it (although I think the DH8 was pretty efficient). I don't think , with maybe the exception of the DH8, that any aircraft could operate those short hops (including DCA) and not lose money. IMHO
Turn left heading 080 contact departure
 
Nicknuzzii
Topic Author
Posts: 1248
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:26 pm

Does anyone think NK or possibly another carrier could expand in ACY soon? This summer they avg about 10-11 flights a day but I still believe some routes are underserved including TPA and RSW. Any chance for BNA/LAS/SJU/MSY?
 
nkops
Posts: 2237
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:09 am

Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:05 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Does anyone think NK or possibly another carrier could expand in ACY soon? This summer they avg about 10-11 flights a day but I still believe some routes are underserved including TPA and RSW. Any chance for BNA/LAS/SJU/MSY?


I believe that MSY and BNA could work with AAY if they did 2-3x weekly.. That airport seems like a perfect fit for an airline like that.
Turn left heading 080 contact departure
 
andrikACY
Posts: 4
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Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:43 am

ACY needs a couple of things. First they need to link the airport with NJ transit AC line and time it where it make sense with the flights. I use this airport as much as I can (fly for work between ACY and MCO). However any other destination I have to go to PHL. I think if AA had a 2x flights to CLT and ORD to connect it to the rest of the network that would be a start. When NK flew (seasonally) ACY-ORD the flights seemed pretty full so not sure why that route stopped. NK should make ACY-ATL year round as that route seems to do pretty well. I think if ACY could land a AA, UA or B6 and make the flights affordable they could compete with NK on the Florida routes. The UA flights they had to IAH and ORD were priced way higher than flying from PHL or EWR. Those routes were doomed from the beginning. The casino's and other tourist businesses need to get on board with marketing Atlantic City as a multi-day destination and not a day trip by car. There is gaming in the surrounding states, we have to give people a reason to come to the Atlantic City area. There was an article in the Press of AC recently talking about how the airport is underutilized and how air service is one area they need to work on for Atlantic City / South Jersey to realize its potential.
 
crownvic
Posts: 2702
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:20 am

andrikACY wrote:
ACY needs a couple of things. First they need to link the airport with NJ transit AC line and time it where it make sense with the flights. I use this airport as much as I can (fly for work between ACY and MCO). However any other destination I have to go to PHL. I think if AA had a 2x flights to CLT and ORD to connect it to the rest of the network that would be a start. When NK flew (seasonally) ACY-ORD the flights seemed pretty full so not sure why that route stopped. NK should make ACY-ATL year round as that route seems to do pretty well. I think if ACY could land a AA, UA or B6 and make the flights affordable they could compete with NK on the Florida routes. The UA flights they had to IAH and ORD were priced way higher than flying from PHL or EWR. Those routes were doomed from the beginning. The casino's and other tourist businesses need to get on board with marketing Atlantic City as a multi-day destination and not a day trip by car. There is gaming in the surrounding states, we have to give people a reason to come to the Atlantic City area. There was an article in the Press of AC recently talking about how the airport is underutilized and how air service is one area they need to work on for Atlantic City / South Jersey to realize its potential.


I think if tourists had a sub at Dino's, Sack-O's or the White House, air traffic would surge at ACY :)
 
nkops
Posts: 2237
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:09 am

Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:08 pm

https://literock969.com/spirit-airlines ... nj1015.com

Spirit adding frequencies to ACY, but no new destinations
Turn left heading 080 contact departure
 
AmericanAir88
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:44 pm

How is F9 doing at EWR? They are trying to make EWR a FC/Crew base.

How are flights like EWR-LAS doing? I am curious if they are profiting and reacting.
 
Nicknuzzii
Topic Author
Posts: 1248
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:50 pm

AmericanAir88 wrote:
How is F9 doing at EWR? They are trying to make EWR a FC/Crew base.

How are flights like EWR-LAS doing? I am curious if they are profiting and reacting.


How were they doing before March? Great. How are they doing now? Awful. They struggle to offer 4 flights a day. Right now they are offering EWR-DEN/MCO/MIA/LAS. LAS is the only daily destination.

I simply do not understand why they are struggling so much at EWR. NK is offering EWR-MCO 4x a day. F9 is offering it 4x a week. B6 is offering EWR-FLL 4x a day. F9 is offering EWR-MIA 2x a week. AA and UA are also way larger on that route. And that is only the routes they ARE flying. I’m not sure how they can’t make EWR-ATL/CUN/RSW/SJU/TPA right now. These are the only routes airlines can fill flights to right now.

Are they still planning on a crew base?
 
AmericanAir88
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: New Jersey Aviation Thread (EWR, ACY, TTN) - 2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:16 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
How is F9 doing at EWR? They are trying to make EWR a FC/Crew base.

How are flights like EWR-LAS doing? I am curious if they are profiting and reacting.


How were they doing before March? Great. How are they doing now? Awful. They struggle to offer 4 flights a day. Right now they are offering EWR-DEN/MCO/MIA/LAS. LAS is the only daily destination.

I simply do not understand why they are struggling so much at EWR. NK is offering EWR-MCO 4x a day. F9 is offering it 4x a week. B6 is offering EWR-FLL 4x a day. F9 is offering EWR-MIA 2x a week. AA and UA are also way larger on that route. And that is only the routes they ARE flying. I’m not sure how they can’t make EWR-ATL/CUN/RSW/SJU/TPA right now. These are the only routes airlines can fill flights to right now.

Are they still planning on a crew base?


Thank you. I have no idea. All news reports date back to pre covid.

So F9 was doing great before covid? Thats good to hear. Are there current routes at least doing well?

How is the daily F9 LAS route doing? Is NK's LAS route doing well?

I am trying to gather information on F9 at EWR.

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