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airlineaddict
Posts: 403
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:54 pm

Devilfish wrote:
It appears folks at M/GMR as well as the traveling public are in for a bleak holiday season..... :sigh:

https://business.inquirer.net/314061/me ... sideration

<snip>

Quote:
"The company behind the Clark and Mactan-Cebu international airports said Manila authorities revoked the original proponent status of its P109-billion proposal with GMR Infrastructure. It said it will appeal the decision."


Let us see whether Megawide's appeal could succeed where its submissions couldn't. :stirthepot:


Meanwhile, SMC announced today that it will start construction in Q1 2021. (Coincidental timing?) :scratchchin:

https://www.rappler.com/business/bulaca ... on-q1-2021

But... there’s now a petition to the Supreme Court to stop SMC from construction.

https://www.rappler.com/nation/supreme- ... nstruction

It seems like the traveling public are on Santa’s naughty list and are getting a lump of coal. :banghead:
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:22 pm

airlineaddict wrote:
Meanwhile, SMC announced today that it will start construction in Q1 2021. (Coincidental timing?) :scratchchin:

It could be what others referred to as "things SMC knew that we mere mortals did not"..... :spin:

https://www.philstar.com/business/2020/ ... an-airport


airlineaddict wrote:
But... there’s now a petition to the Supreme Court to stop SMC from construction.

It seems like the traveling public are on Santa’s naughty list and are getting a lump of coal.

Perhaps a generous contribution to the collection box this season and three Hail Mary's plus ample donations to the Green's many advocacies would be deemed acceptable demonstrations of contrition. :old:

In three years, RSA could place an order for his airline and receive this fine starter set on the fifth year in time for the opening of NMIA in six years..... :bigthumbsup:


Image


Image
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Bobby27ph
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:16 pm

Actually, quite possible!

There’ll be opportunity for Ramon Ang’s airline to use the new Bulacan Airport.

Your A330-800, etc ‘could’ also be a possibility...
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Devilfish
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:50 pm

Bobby27ph wrote:
Actually, quite possible!

There’ll be opportunity for Ramon Ang’s airline to use the new Bulacan Airport.

He may not even have to wait for Bulakan...the cat is out of the bag!..... :o

https://www.philstar.com/business/2020/ ... s-bid-naia

Quote:
"MANILA, Philippines — Conglomerate San Miguel Corp. (SMC) could end up operating and maintaining the Ninoy Aquino International Airport (NAIA) after government talks with a super consortium of conglomerates bogged down and Megawide Construction Corp. lost its upper hand.

'I heard they did,' a ranking official from the Department of Transportation (DOTr) told The STAR when asked if SMC has submitted an operations and maintenance (O&M) proposal for the NAIA, the country’s main international gateway.

The official said the Manila International Airport Authority (MIAA), which manages NAIA, would have more information on the proposal."



The broth (plot rather) thickens..... :stirthepot:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
AB330
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:22 am

Devilfish wrote:
It appears folks at M/GMR as well as the traveling public are in for a bleak holiday season..... :sigh:

https://business.inquirer.net/314061/me ... sideration


Image
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/cdn-cgi/ ... pg.856283/

https://cnnphilippines.com/news/2020/12 ... 2EIVtm4C0s

Quote:
"The company behind the Clark and Mactan-Cebu international airports said Manila authorities revoked the original proponent status of its P109-billion proposal with GMR Infrastructure. It said it will appeal the decision."


Let us see whether Megawide's appeal could succeed where its submissions couldn't. :stirthepot:


It seems GMR/Megawide are in deep trouble for violating the anti-dummy law.

http://philippineairspace.blogspot.com/ ... r.html?m=1

If proven guilty Megawide/GMR could lose there liceneced to operate MCIA and CEB!

I also wonder if RSA is intrested in operating CEB? If he has any hand in this issue!
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:42 pm

Bobby27ph wrote:
Your A330-800, etc ‘could’ also be a possibility...

I would think RSA had taken to heart insights gained during his stint at PAL.....

https://www.philstar.com/business/2020/ ... tructuring

Quote:
"'Asia’s oldest carrier has been brought to its knees. The financial crisis in the region, a pilots’ strike, the threat of a further strike from 8,000 ground crew and an over-ambitious $4 billion re-fleeting program, have each dealt a painful blow to Philippine Airlines.'

PAL purchased at least 54 additional aircraft when San Miguel bought into the company. This, insiders said, would take a toll on PAL years later although it was at the time when the airline made money after a long while.

Hindsight is always 2020 and as this year forces PAL to look back on the impact of past decisions, drastic management changes, family-related squabbles and costly wastage, it should heed the lessons well if it is to make it beyond Chapter 11."



The A338 would provide a good, economical platform to start fresh and grow from. He could use it to launch services to the ME, AKL and HNL. The A223 can do the neighboring countries and domestic routes. After the airline gets going smoothly and profitably, it could apply (subject to existing ASAs) to fly from say TLV to LGW or BCN, avoiding the expensive, slot restricted airports. Then they may pay Airbus to activate the A338's 251T wv to do CIA, ORY and SEA nonstop comfortably. Only when the airline is firmly established should it go head to head with the big boys at the premier airports -- using the A359/A35K perhaps?.....

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=MNL-TLV-BC ... =wls&DU=nm

Of course he needn't go through the entire rigamarole should he decide to buy into PR anew. Just a bit of downsizing would do. :spin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASxgCbdDQqs


Going back to NAIA...if SMC would handle O&M only, then that leaves MIAA free to award design & renovation contracts in case they feel the airport must remain. They have the money according to reports -- POPULOUS perchance? :idea:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:12 am

Devilfish wrote:
Image


I doubt the A338 (or indeed the A330neo as a while) will still be in production five years from now, let alone RSA ordering it for his yet-to-launch airline. I don't think anyone else on the internet is even pushing for local carriers to order it except for you. Besides, as I've mentioned multiple times here, why order the A338 when the 787 and A350 could do its job well and fit into PR's fleet better? And even if RSA's airline does launch (which I highly doubt at this point), I have serious doubts that the A330neo is in his plans, especially when you consider the rumors that he was leaning towards the 787 during his PR days. You're more likely to see the A321XLR at a local airline than the flop that is the A338.

I'm going to be frank here: your insistence that airlines order the A338 is bordering on fanboyism at this point.
RIP 9V-SKA
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Devilfish
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:53 pm

filipinoavgeek wrote:
I doubt the A338 (or indeed the A330neo as a while) will still be in production five years from now, let alone RSA ordering it for his yet-to-launch airline.

Your doubts be damned...though the A338 surely made you come out of your cave in a flash :!: It's alright...the NEO can join RSA's airline in the afterlife. :ghost:

filipinoavgeek wrote:
I don't think anyone else on the internet is even pushing for local carriers to order it except for you.

Great...I have always wanted to be unique in something. :bigthumbsup:

filipinoavgeek wrote:
Besides, as I've mentioned multiple times here, why order the A338 when the 787 and A350 could do its job well and fit into PR's fleet better?

There are 50 million reasons why. What you mentioned does not count as you had not been able to point to an inherent flaw in the A338 (except for it not being 'popular') nor describe convincingly how the 787 fits the fleet better.

filipinoavgeek wrote:
And even if RSA's airline does launch (which I highly doubt at this point), I have serious doubts that the A330neo is in his plans, especially when you consider the rumors that he was leaning towards the 787 during his PR days. You're more likely to see the A321XLR at a local airline than the flop that is the A338.

So much so that he ordered an additional 10 A333s very soon after placing the order for the first batch of 10. The XLR is a bestseller so it doesn't help your argument much.

filipinoavgeek wrote:
I'm going to be frank here: your insistence that airlines order the A338 is bordering on fanboyism at this point.

You've been more than frank a number of times already...now you're a shrink. Try dispensing some of your diagnosis on yourself...it will do you good. :mischievous:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:01 pm

While many are not thrilled, PAGSS' airport proposal for NAIA is next in line for consideration. It can be recalled that they were part of the AEDC consortium of T3 fame.....

https://www.philstar.com/business/2020/ ... r-megawide

https://www.philstar.com/business/2020/ ... -confirmed



Even with PR's tribulations, El Kapitan has a reason to smile this holiday season :cheerful: his beloved airline got a five-star rating for 2021..... :santahat:

https://www.philstar.com/business/2020/ ... tar-rating

Does this presage a satisfactory conclusion of negotiations with lessors and creditors :?:



Meanwhile, cockpit crew are preparing for increased flying time soon.....

https://www.philstar.com/business/2020/ ... sier-skies
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
SleeplessInZh
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:14 pm

Congrats PAL-5 star airline by APEX
2021: Skytrax
 
KGarc21
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:12 am

CX applies for HKG-DVO flights next year

http://philippineairspace.blogspot.com/ ... o.html?m=1

I'm glad that UO won't takeover the route because it would be a huge downgrade.
 
Philippine747
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:15 am

KGarc21 wrote:
CX applies for HKG-DVO flights next year

http://philippineairspace.blogspot.com/ ... o.html?m=1

I'm glad that UO won't takeover the route because it would be a huge downgrade.


Interesting... the CAB hasn't posted the notice of Cathay's application yet on their website. Then again, sometimes government agencies are slow to update their sites. Wonder what's the source on this one?
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AB330
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:46 am

Devilfish wrote:
filipinoavgeek wrote:
I doubt the A338 (or indeed the A330neo as a while) will still be in production five years from now, let alone RSA ordering it for his yet-to-launch airline.

Your doubts be damned...though the A338 surely made you come out of your cave in a flash :!: It's alright...the NEO can join RSA's airline in the afterlife. :ghost:

filipinoavgeek wrote:
I don't think anyone else on the internet is even pushing for local carriers to order it except for you.

Great...I have always wanted to be unique in something. :bigthumbsup:

filipinoavgeek wrote:
Besides, as I've mentioned multiple times here, why order the A338 when the 787 and A350 could do its job well and fit into PR's fleet better?

There are 50 million reasons why. What you mentioned does not count as you had not been able to point to an inherent flaw in the A338 (except for it not being 'popular') nor describe convincingly how the 787 fits the fleet better.

filipinoavgeek wrote:
And even if RSA's airline does launch (which I highly doubt at this point), I have serious doubts that the A330neo is in his plans, especially when you consider the rumors that he was leaning towards the 787 during his PR days. You're more likely to see the A321XLR at a local airline than the flop that is the A338.

So much so that he ordered an additional 10 A333s very soon after placing the order for the first batch of 10. The XLR is a bestseller so it doesn't help your argument much.

filipinoavgeek wrote:
I'm going to be frank here: your insistence that airlines order the A338 is bordering on fanboyism at this point.

You've been more than frank a number of times already...now you're a shrink. Try dispensing some of your diagnosis on yourself...it will do you good. :mischievous:


To be fair the A330-800neo is a perfectly fine aircraft of course being a natural evolution to the A330-200.

However PAL and to a lesser extent CEB aren't in favour for smaller wide-body aircraft types that is bellow the A330-300 in terms of both capacity and ranged.

The uncertainty of wither the A330neo will still be in production by the time PAL decided to replace there A333 will likely linger on for now.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:02 pm

AB330 wrote:
However PAL and to a lesser extent CEB aren't in favour for smaller wide-body aircraft types that is bellow the A330-300 in terms of both capacity and ranged.

They may have to re-evaluate that view in the face of current realities which are expected to prevail for some time to come. Lower CASM loses much of its appeal when they pay higher lease rates and fees for flying a bigger, half-empty plane...as both airlines are now finding. At least for PR, it could use the HGW A338 to LHR and YVR in case they're compelled to return half of their A359s and many of their 77Ws. They might be able to haggle a good deal with Airbus who are in need of more (A338) customers, especially during this pandemic.....

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... 30neo.html

5J is not as heavily impacted for they do not fly beyond the ceo's range, but they too are rejigging their fleet plans.


AB330 wrote:
The uncertainty of wither the A330neo will still be in production by the time PAL decided to replace there A333 will likely linger on for now.

As I have said in #489, foretelling which would outlast which is the difficult part.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
AB330
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:37 am

Devilfish wrote:
AB330 wrote:
However PAL and to a lesser extent CEB aren't in favour for smaller wide-body aircraft types that is bellow the A330-300 in terms of both capacity and ranged.

They may have to re-evaluate that view in the face of current realities which are expected to prevail for some time to come. Lower CASM loses much of its appeal when they pay higher lease rates and fees for flying a bigger, half-empty plane...as both airlines are now finding. At least for PR, it could use the HGW A338 to LHR and YVR in case they're compelled to return half of their A359s and many of their 77Ws. They might be able to haggle a good deal with Airbus who are in need of more (A338) customers, especially during this pandemic.....


PAL will still need all A359 and fraction of there B77W. Its not just capacity that is the factor. There is also cargo that should be considered the bally capacity of both the A359 and B77W surpass the A338. Also wouldn't an HGW A338 restrict the amount of cargo it can carry normally?
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:15 am

AB330 wrote:
Devilfish wrote:
AB330 wrote:
However PAL and to a lesser extent CEB aren't in favour for smaller wide-body aircraft types that is bellow the A330-300 in terms of both capacity and ranged.

They may have to re-evaluate that view in the face of current realities which are expected to prevail for some time to come. Lower CASM loses much of its appeal when they pay higher lease rates and fees for flying a bigger, half-empty plane...as both airlines are now finding. At least for PR, it could use the HGW A338 to LHR and YVR in case they're compelled to return half of their A359s and many of their 77Ws. They might be able to haggle a good deal with Airbus who are in need of more (A338) customers, especially during this pandemic.....


PAL will still need all A359 and fraction of there B77W. Its not just capacity that is the factor. There is also cargo that should be considered the bally capacity of both the A359 and B77W surpass the A338. Also wouldn't an HGW A338 restrict the amount of cargo it can carry normally?


Multiple people have told Devilfish many times why the A338 makes little sense for PAL (or indeed almost all airlines apart from tiny niche cases like Air Greenland or Kuwait Airways), but he refuses to listen. If lower capacity is one of the reasons to go with the A338, then the A321XLR would be a far better fit as it's more flexible. If it's range, PR already has the A350 which is doing a great job at what it does. At this point I'm almost convinced that Devilfish is pushing for PR/5J to order the A338 specifically (as opposed to the more sensible A339 if it really has to be the A330neo) has less to do with economics and more to do with "I love the A338 and I want airlines to order it!". I mean, he does post about the A338 in threads about other airlines as well, even when no one else was bringing up the A330neo. He's the A338 equivalent of those people who say that airlines need the A380 and the A380 is not a financial flop (saying this as an A380 fan myself who nevertheless has accepted that is a failure). There's nothing wrong with liking unsuccessful aircraft and even the biggest failures have their share of fans here, but given how he's said things like "PR needs to order the A338 because AB needs more orders for this failing aircraft", his love for the A338 is getting ridiculous at times, and it's become clear that his thoughts have gotten clouded and make little-to-no economic or strategic sense. By that logic, you could also argue that more airlines need to order more A380s to save the program, but airlines (wisely) looked at the numbers and decided that it wasn't worth it.

As for cargo, yes that's another factor. There's a reason why PR is sending their A350s and 777s on MNL-GES during this downturn (i.e. tuna runs). When cargo is a factor, the A350 already exists and can do most of the work the A330neo can do but better. If PR has to retire the 777, their future lies in the A350 (or perhaps less likely the 787 in case PR decides to continue to have some Boeing planes). But in reality, given the economic downturn and PR's own financial issues, I don't see them ordering more widebodies of any kind at least in the short-term.
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sassiciai
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:18 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
AB330 wrote:
Devilfish wrote:
They may have to re-evaluate that view in the face of current realities which are expected to prevail for some time to come. Lower CASM loses much of its appeal when they pay higher lease rates and fees for flying a bigger, half-empty plane...as both airlines are now finding. At least for PR, it could use the HGW A338 to LHR and YVR in case they're compelled to return half of their A359s and many of their 77Ws. They might be able to haggle a good deal with Airbus who are in need of more (A338) customers, especially during this pandemic.....


PAL will still need all A359 and fraction of there B77W. Its not just capacity that is the factor. There is also cargo that should be considered the bally capacity of both the A359 and B77W surpass the A338. Also wouldn't an HGW A338 restrict the amount of cargo it can carry normally?


Multiple people have told Devilfish many times why the A338 makes little sense for PAL (or indeed almost all airlines apart from tiny niche cases like Air Greenland or Kuwait Airways), but he refuses to listen. If lower capacity is one of the reasons to go with the A338, then the A321XLR would be a far better fit as it's more flexible. If it's range, PR already has the A350 which is doing a great job at what it does. At this point I'm almost convinced that Devilfish is pushing for PR/5J to order the A338 specifically (as opposed to the more sensible A339 if it really has to be the A330neo) has less to do with economics and more to do with "I love the A338 and I want airlines to order it!". I mean, he does post about the A338 in threads about other airlines as well, even when no one else was bringing up the A330neo. He's the A338 equivalent of those people who say that airlines need the A380 and the A380 is not a financial flop (saying this as an A380 fan myself who nevertheless has accepted that is a failure). There's nothing wrong with liking unsuccessful aircraft and even the biggest failures have their share of fans here, but given how he's said things like "PR needs to order the A338 because AB needs more orders for this failing aircraft", his love for the A338 is getting ridiculous at times, and it's become clear that his thoughts have gotten clouded and make little-to-no economic or strategic sense. By that logic, you could also argue that more airlines need to order more A380s to save the program, but airlines (wisely) looked at the numbers and decided that it wasn't worth it.

As for cargo, yes that's another factor. There's a reason why PR is sending their A350s and 777s on MNL-GES during this downturn (i.e. tuna runs). When cargo is a factor, the A350 already exists and can do most of the work the A330neo can do but better. If PR has to retire the 777, their future lies in the A350 (or perhaps less likely the 787 in case PR decides to continue to have some Boeing planes). But in reality, given the economic downturn and PR's own financial issues, I don't see them ordering more widebodies of any kind at least in the short-term.

There may be some members on A.net who come here out of duty, professional or otherwise. The majority come here out of interest, and are surely looking for something agreeable in the experience. It is therefore to be lauded to have a member who has a sense of humour, and brings a smile to the reader's face when he repeats his joke. "Fish" is now part of A.net lore, Devilfish and his A338 POV is emerging as another.

This thread on Philippine aviation would be a sadder place without his contributions, including his portrayal of a schoolboy crush on an aeroplane! It's funny, try to take it like that!
 
airlineaddict
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:32 am

The telenovela that is the rehabilitation of Ninoy Aquino International Airport (NAIA) in Manila continues.

Megawide GMR’s proposal to rehabilitate NAIA has a weak pulse. The firms just filed a motion with the airport authority to appeal their loss of Original Proponent Status (OPS) which would basically bring life back to their proposal to rehab and operate NAIA. OPS was lost as the original submission was made by Megawide alone which lacked sufficient capitalization for the Philippine government. Megawide pulled in GMR to meet the minimum financial requirements, but it was apparently too late.

https://www.cnnphilippines.com/business ... ation.html

I’m really not sure if the appeal will succeed given concurrent legal issues against Megawide GMR about the composition of management running Mactan Cebu airport (i.e., not enough Filipinos). The allegations may be enough to disqualify them from consideration for the NAIA project even if they now meet the minimum financial requirements. Feels like checkmate for Megawide GMR’s proposal. :cry:

Meanwhile, PAGSS (current ground handler at NAIA) and SMC have submitted their own proposals, except SMC is proposing to be a caretaker only (no rehab) for 10 years which buys it time until their New Manila International Airport is built in Bulacan. Totally makes good business sense for SMC to ensure the airlines and business will actually come after they build the brand new airport.
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:59 am

SleeplessInZh wrote:
Congrats PAL-5 star airline by APEX
2021: Skytrax


That would be pretty cool if PR gets a 5-star rating, but until MNL's issues are solved, it's unlikely to happen anytime soon.
RIP 9V-SKA
2007 - 2019
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:57 pm

AB330 wrote:
PAL will still need all A359 and fraction of there B77W.

Question is can they afford to?

AB330 wrote:
Also wouldn't an HGW A338 restrict the amount of cargo it can carry normally?

The higher MTOW is what enables it to carry more or fly farther.


filipinoavgeek wrote:
Multiple people have told Devilfish many times why the A338 makes little sense for PAL (or indeed almost all airlines apart from tiny niche cases like Air Greenland or Kuwait Airways), but he refuses to listen.

Multiple big airlines have realized the need to downsize and are acting accordingly. It's enigmatic why a relatively smaller and less-moneyed airline should find that nonsensical.

filipinoavgeek wrote:
If lower capacity is one of the reasons to go with the A338, then the A321XLR would be a far better fit as it's more flexible. If it's range, PR already has the A350 which is doing a great job at what it does.

Can the A321XLR do both at the same time...if no, then it's not that flexible. And would that be possible with a lower capital outlay for the A359?

filipinoavgeek wrote:
At this point I'm almost convinced that Devilfish is pushing for PR/5J to order the A338 specifically (as opposed to the more sensible A339 if it really has to be the A330neo) has less to do with economics and more to do with "I love the A338 and I want airlines to order it!".

To clarify, I was in favor of 5J keeping their A330ceos longer rather than spending money on the A339 at this time (which from all indications will likely be delayed anyway). As to me pushing PR to order the A338, it is just one option so they do not end up in the drink in case holding on to the A359 and 77W proves untenable. Though I have to admit I'd love to see the "Love Bus" on the A338 before either the aircraft or airline ceases to be (heaven forbid).

filipinoavgeek wrote:
There's nothing wrong with liking unsuccessful aircraft and even the biggest failures have their share of fans here, but given how he's said things like "PR needs to order the A338 because AB needs more orders for this failing aircraft", his love for the A338 is getting ridiculous at times, and it's become clear that his thoughts have gotten clouded and make little-to-no economic or strategic sense.

There's a big difference between what you wrote and what PR could bargain with to its advantage. I just hope it is not denser than 5J's A330 configuration.

filipinoavgeek wrote:
By that logic, you could also argue that more airlines need to order more A380s to save the program, but airlines (wisely) looked at the numbers and decided that it wasn't worth it.

Except that the A338 has just entered commercial service. To paraphrase..."news of its death are greatly exaggerated".... :tombstone: Remember K I S S S .

filipinoavgeek wrote:
There's a reason why PR is sending their A350s and 777s on MNL-GES during this downturn (i.e. tuna runs). When cargo is a factor, the A350 already exists and can do most of the work the A330neo can do but better.

Hasn't it occurred to you that PR has to keep those flying to pay for their upkeep, prevent those from deteriorating on the ground, and keep their crews current :?:


sassiciai wrote:

Wow, I didn't expect that...owe you one old chap. Just don't collect your marker yet. :twocents:

sassiciai wrote:
his portrayal of a schoolboy crush on an aeroplane! It's funny, try to take it like that!

I couldn't bear to love a snowglobe for the life of me...though I kinda enjoy being the site jester :crazy: Happy Holidays everyone...stay safe! :santahat:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
LurveBus
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:03 pm

filipinoavgeek wrote:
AB330 wrote:
Devilfish wrote:
They may have to re-evaluate that view in the face of current realities which are expected to prevail for some time to come. Lower CASM loses much of its appeal when they pay higher lease rates and fees for flying a bigger, half-empty plane...as both airlines are now finding. At least for PR, it could use the HGW A338 to LHR and YVR in case they're compelled to return half of their A359s and many of their 77Ws. They might be able to haggle a good deal with Airbus who are in need of more (A338) customers, especially during this pandemic.....


PAL will still need all A359 and fraction of there B77W. Its not just capacity that is the factor. There is also cargo that should be considered the bally capacity of both the A359 and B77W surpass the A338. Also wouldn't an HGW A338 restrict the amount of cargo it can carry normally?


Multiple people have told Devilfish many times why the A338 makes little sense for PAL (or indeed almost all airlines apart from tiny niche cases like Air Greenland or Kuwait Airways), but he refuses to listen. If lower capacity is one of the reasons to go with the A338, then the A321XLR would be a far better fit as it's more flexible. If it's range, PR already has the A350 which is doing a great job at what it does. At this point I'm almost convinced that Devilfish is pushing for PR/5J to order the A338 specifically (as opposed to the more sensible A339 if it really has to be the A330neo) has less to do with economics and more to do with "I love the A338 and I want airlines to order it!". I mean, he does post about the A338 in threads about other airlines as well, even when no one else was bringing up the A330neo. He's the A338 equivalent of those people who say that airlines need the A380 and the A380 is not a financial flop (saying this as an A380 fan myself who nevertheless has accepted that is a failure). There's nothing wrong with liking unsuccessful aircraft and even the biggest failures have their share of fans here, but given how he's said things like "PR needs to order the A338 because AB needs more orders for this failing aircraft", his love for the A338 is getting ridiculous at times, and it's become clear that his thoughts have gotten clouded and make little-to-no economic or strategic sense. By that logic, you could also argue that more airlines need to order more A380s to save the program, but airlines (wisely) looked at the numbers and decided that it wasn't worth it.

As for cargo, yes that's another factor. There's a reason why PR is sending their A350s and 777s on MNL-GES during this downturn (i.e. tuna runs). When cargo is a factor, the A350 already exists and can do most of the work the A330neo can do but better. If PR has to retire the 777, their future lies in the A350 (or perhaps less likely the 787 in case PR decides to continue to have some Boeing planes). But in reality, given the economic downturn and PR's own financial issues, I don't see them ordering more widebodies of any kind at least in the short-term.


The name of the website is airliners.net. This is literally the place to be to be a fanboy of the most random planes. You still have people out there holding out for a Concorde revival, or a Pan Am resurrection. Nothing wrong with that. We all have our favorite aircraft.
 
AB330
Posts: 129
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:53 am

LurveBus wrote:
filipinoavgeek wrote:
AB330 wrote:

PAL will still need all A359 and fraction of there B77W. Its not just capacity that is the factor. There is also cargo that should be considered the bally capacity of both the A359 and B77W surpass the A338. Also wouldn't an HGW A338 restrict the amount of cargo it can carry normally?


Multiple people have told Devilfish many times why the A338 makes little sense for PAL (or indeed almost all airlines apart from tiny niche cases like Air Greenland or Kuwait Airways), but he refuses to listen. If lower capacity is one of the reasons to go with the A338, then the A321XLR would be a far better fit as it's more flexible. If it's range, PR already has the A350 which is doing a great job at what it does. At this point I'm almost convinced that Devilfish is pushing for PR/5J to order the A338 specifically (as opposed to the more sensible A339 if it really has to be the A330neo) has less to do with economics and more to do with "I love the A338 and I want airlines to order it!". I mean, he does post about the A338 in threads about other airlines as well, even when no one else was bringing up the A330neo. He's the A338 equivalent of those people who say that airlines need the A380 and the A380 is not a financial flop (saying this as an A380 fan myself who nevertheless has accepted that is a failure). There's nothing wrong with liking unsuccessful aircraft and even the biggest failures have their share of fans here, but given how he's said things like "PR needs to order the A338 because AB needs more orders for this failing aircraft", his love for the A338 is getting ridiculous at times, and it's become clear that his thoughts have gotten clouded and make little-to-no economic or strategic sense. By that logic, you could also argue that more airlines need to order more A380s to save the program, but airlines (wisely) looked at the numbers and decided that it wasn't worth it.

As for cargo, yes that's another factor. There's a reason why PR is sending their A350s and 777s on MNL-GES during this downturn (i.e. tuna runs). When cargo is a factor, the A350 already exists and can do most of the work the A330neo can do but better. If PR has to retire the 777, their future lies in the A350 (or perhaps less likely the 787 in case PR decides to continue to have some Boeing planes). But in reality, given the economic downturn and PR's own financial issues, I don't see them ordering more widebodies of any kind at least in the short-term.


The name of the website is airliners.net. This is literally the place to be to be a fanboy of the most random planes. You still have people out there holding out for a Concorde revival, or a Pan Am resurrection. Nothing wrong with that. We all have our favorite aircraft.


Yeah I guest you do have a point about some memebers pushing for there favorite aircraft and I'm not against those expressing pushing there desire aircraft to any airlines.

In fact I really would like PAL to order the A220-300 which can be operated by PAL Express on its secondary domestic hub like CEB, CRK and DVO. Besides the A220 I would like to see the A330-200 the predecessor of the A330-800neo join PAL fleet complementing the larger A330-300.

However it seems that Devilfish is pushing that PAL should only order the A330-800neo or that PAL should replaced there A330-300 with the A338 which can get annoying and he can be a bit defensive if someone questions his reasoning or justification for the A338. But again I will stand by my statement that I can see the A330-800neo fit PAL fleet which nicely complement the A339 on thiner long-haul routes.
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:14 am

AB330 wrote:
LurveBus wrote:
filipinoavgeek wrote:

Multiple people have told Devilfish many times why the A338 makes little sense for PAL (or indeed almost all airlines apart from tiny niche cases like Air Greenland or Kuwait Airways), but he refuses to listen. If lower capacity is one of the reasons to go with the A338, then the A321XLR would be a far better fit as it's more flexible. If it's range, PR already has the A350 which is doing a great job at what it does. At this point I'm almost convinced that Devilfish is pushing for PR/5J to order the A338 specifically (as opposed to the more sensible A339 if it really has to be the A330neo) has less to do with economics and more to do with "I love the A338 and I want airlines to order it!". I mean, he does post about the A338 in threads about other airlines as well, even when no one else was bringing up the A330neo. He's the A338 equivalent of those people who say that airlines need the A380 and the A380 is not a financial flop (saying this as an A380 fan myself who nevertheless has accepted that is a failure). There's nothing wrong with liking unsuccessful aircraft and even the biggest failures have their share of fans here, but given how he's said things like "PR needs to order the A338 because AB needs more orders for this failing aircraft", his love for the A338 is getting ridiculous at times, and it's become clear that his thoughts have gotten clouded and make little-to-no economic or strategic sense. By that logic, you could also argue that more airlines need to order more A380s to save the program, but airlines (wisely) looked at the numbers and decided that it wasn't worth it.

As for cargo, yes that's another factor. There's a reason why PR is sending their A350s and 777s on MNL-GES during this downturn (i.e. tuna runs). When cargo is a factor, the A350 already exists and can do most of the work the A330neo can do but better. If PR has to retire the 777, their future lies in the A350 (or perhaps less likely the 787 in case PR decides to continue to have some Boeing planes). But in reality, given the economic downturn and PR's own financial issues, I don't see them ordering more widebodies of any kind at least in the short-term.


The name of the website is airliners.net. This is literally the place to be to be a fanboy of the most random planes. You still have people out there holding out for a Concorde revival, or a Pan Am resurrection. Nothing wrong with that. We all have our favorite aircraft.


Yeah I guest you do have a point about some memebers pushing for there favorite aircraft and I'm not against those expressing pushing there desire aircraft to any airlines.

In fact I really would like PAL to order the A220-300 which can be operated by PAL Express on its secondary domestic hub like CEB, CRK and DVO. Besides the A220 I would like to see the A330-200 the predecessor of the A330-800neo join PAL fleet complementing the larger A330-300.

However it seems that Devilfish is pushing that PAL should only order the A330-800neo or that PAL should replaced there A330-300 with the A338 which can get annoying and he can be a bit defensive if someone questions his reasoning or justification for the A338. But again I will stand by my statement that I can see the A330-800neo fit PAL fleet which nicely complement the A339 on thiner long-haul routes.


Had PR operated the A330-200 in the past, the A338 would have actually made a lot of sense. The A338 is basically an evolution of that and would have fit in nicely with their fleet. Notice how two of the three A338 operators (Kuwait and Air Greenland) are or were A332 operators. But that's not what PR did, they've only ever used the A330-300. And now, their strategy seems to be to upgauge, not downgauge (e.g. A320 -> A321, A340 -> A350, low-density A330 -> more dense A330). It's clear from their strategy that when it comes to their A330s, capacity and not range is their raison d'etre.

If any PR fleet decisions baffle me, it's why they never ordered the A321LR. It would have been a perfect fit for them and would allow them to operate the A321neo long-haul routes more efficiently.
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AB330
Posts: 129
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:55 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
AB330 wrote:
LurveBus wrote:

The name of the website is airliners.net. This is literally the place to be to be a fanboy of the most random planes. You still have people out there holding out for a Concorde revival, or a Pan Am resurrection. Nothing wrong with that. We all have our favorite aircraft.


Yeah I guest you do have a point about some memebers pushing for there favorite aircraft and I'm not against those expressing pushing there desire aircraft to any airlines.

In fact I really would like PAL to order the A220-300 which can be operated by PAL Express on its secondary domestic hub like CEB, CRK and DVO. Besides the A220 I would like to see the A330-200 the predecessor of the A330-800neo join PAL fleet complementing the larger A330-300.

However it seems that Devilfish is pushing that PAL should only order the A330-800neo or that PAL should replaced there A330-300 with the A338 which can get annoying and he can be a bit defensive if someone questions his reasoning or justification for the A338. But again I will stand by my statement that I can see the A330-800neo fit PAL fleet which nicely complement the A339 on thiner long-haul routes.


Had PR operated the A330-200 in the past, the A338 would have actually made a lot of sense. The A338 is basically an evolution of that and would have fit in nicely with their fleet. Notice how two of the three A338 operators (Kuwait and Air Greenland) are or were A332 operators. But that's not what PR did, they've only ever used the A330-300. And now, their strategy seems to be to upgauge, not downgauge (e.g. A320 -> A321, A340 -> A350, low-density A330 -> more dense A330). It's clear from their strategy that when it comes to their A330s, capacity and not range is their raison d'etre.

If any PR fleet decisions baffle me, it's why they never ordered the A321LR. It would have been a perfect fit for them and would allow them to operate the A321neo long-haul routes more efficiently.


Just realized that too most of the current customers of the A338 where previously operators of the A330-200. So it made sense why they ordered the A330-800neo Besides those mentioned Garuda is said to have ordered the A338 with four to be leased likely to replaced there exsisting A332 fleet. The only exception is Ugandan Airlines which is fairly new airlines only starting up recently.

As for the A321LR yeah it kind of baffles me too I imagine PAL A321LR would have the same configurations as there SR configured A321neo ACF. Also it baffles me that PAL SR A321neo has less seats then the A321-200.
 
LurveBus
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:27 am

AB330 wrote:
filipinoavgeek wrote:
AB330 wrote:

Yeah I guest you do have a point about some memebers pushing for there favorite aircraft and I'm not against those expressing pushing there desire aircraft to any airlines.

In fact I really would like PAL to order the A220-300 which can be operated by PAL Express on its secondary domestic hub like CEB, CRK and DVO. Besides the A220 I would like to see the A330-200 the predecessor of the A330-800neo join PAL fleet complementing the larger A330-300.

However it seems that Devilfish is pushing that PAL should only order the A330-800neo or that PAL should replaced there A330-300 with the A338 which can get annoying and he can be a bit defensive if someone questions his reasoning or justification for the A338. But again I will stand by my statement that I can see the A330-800neo fit PAL fleet which nicely complement the A339 on thiner long-haul routes.


Had PR operated the A330-200 in the past, the A338 would have actually made a lot of sense. The A338 is basically an evolution of that and would have fit in nicely with their fleet. Notice how two of the three A338 operators (Kuwait and Air Greenland) are or were A332 operators. But that's not what PR did, they've only ever used the A330-300. And now, their strategy seems to be to upgauge, not downgauge (e.g. A320 -> A321, A340 -> A350, low-density A330 -> more dense A330). It's clear from their strategy that when it comes to their A330s, capacity and not range is their raison d'etre.

If any PR fleet decisions baffle me, it's why they never ordered the A321LR. It would have been a perfect fit for them and would allow them to operate the A321neo long-haul routes more efficiently.


Just realized that too most of the current customers of the A338 where previously operators of the A330-200. So it made sense why they ordered the A330-800neo Besides those mentioned Garuda is said to have ordered the A338 with four to be leased likely to replaced there exsisting A332 fleet. The only exception is Ugandan Airlines which is fairly new airlines only starting up recently.

As for the A321LR yeah it kind of baffles me too I imagine PAL A321LR would have the same configurations as there SR configured A321neo ACF. Also it baffles me that PAL SR A321neo has less seats then the A321-200.



Ultimately, PAL did operate the A340-200 in the past, which is pretty similar to the A338 in capacity and range. It was the aircraft that made Manila-London nonstop for the first time. The A342 could in theory have also opened up cities like ORD. Alas, once in receivership, it was found that thin long-haul routes wouldn’t do much, and that PAL was better off focusing on LAX/SFO, and the A343 could do most of the things that the A342 could do but better. So PAL is very familiar with what it would take to make thin long haul routes work. And for that, they already chose the A359.

Had they not ordered the A359, maybe the A338 would have a place in their fleet.
 
AB330
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:10 am

LurveBus wrote:
Ultimately, PAL did operate the A340-200 in the past, which is pretty similar to the A338 in capacity and range. It was the aircraft that made Manila-London nonstop for the first time. The A342 could in theory have also opened up cities like ORD. Alas, once in receivership, it was found that thin long-haul routes wouldn’t do much, and that PAL was better off focusing on LAX/SFO, and the A343 could do most of the things that the A342 could do but better. So PAL is very familiar with what it would take to make thin long haul routes work. And for that, they already chose the A359.

Had they not ordered the A359, maybe the A338 would have a place in their fleet.


The A340-200 was really short lived only being in service with PAL for only a few years before they where sold to Aerolines Argentina where they stayed with the airline until 2013-2014 and where eventually replaced by a mix of new A330-200 and second hand A340-300.

Had PAL kept there A342 I could imagine they could have used them to either maintain flights to europe or open new routes in central Canada and US. But demand at the time really wasn't there yet and only recently decade started to grow.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aviati ... price/amp/

Speaking of A342 the French Goverment is selling there two VIP A340-200 for 80,000 euros each (11% VAT not included) I wonder if we could squeeze a good few years on this as the new Kalayaan One :stirthepot:
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:49 pm

AB330 wrote:
Speaking of A342 the French Goverment is selling there two VIP A340-200 for 80,000 euros each (11% VAT not included) I wonder if we could squeeze a good few years on this as the new Kalayaan One :stirthepot:


I guess that new Gulfstream the PAF bought doesn't count?

LurveBus wrote:
So PAL is very familiar with what it would take to make thin long haul routes work. And for that, they already chose the A359.

Had they not ordered the A359, maybe the A338 would have a place in their fleet.


This is one of the reasons why I don't think PR will ever order the A338. It's such a niche aircraft for an airline that never operated the A332, and most if not all of its intended jobs are already being done quite well with the A333/A359 combination (and to a lesser extent the 77W too). PR ordering the A339 (to eventually replace the A333s) is not out of the question and is even plausible, but the question is will that program even still be around by the time the time comes for A333 replacements (remember that those are still fairly young and still have some years left in them). But the A338? It's wishful thinking on par with PR ordering the A380.
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filipinoavgeek
Posts: 662
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:56 pm

AB330 wrote:
Speaking of A342 the French Goverment is selling there two VIP A340-200 for 80,000 euros each (11% VAT not included) I wonder if we could squeeze a good few years on this as the new Kalayaan One :stirthepot:

I guess that new Gulfstream the PAF bought doesn't count?

LurveBus wrote:
So PAL is very familiar with what it would take to make thin long haul routes work. And for that, they already chose the A359.

Had they not ordered the A359, maybe the A338 would have a place in their fleet.


This is one of the reasons why I don't think PR will ever order the A338. It's such a niche aircraft for an airline that never operated the A332, and most if not all of its intended jobs are already being done quite well with the A333/A359 combination (and to a lesser extent the 77W too). PR ordering the A339 (to eventually replace the A333s) is not out of the question and is even plausible, but the question is will that program even still be around by the time the time comes for A333 replacements (remember that those are still fairly young and still have some years left in them). But the A338? It's wishful thinking on par with PR ordering the A380.

AB330 wrote:
However it seems that Devilfish is pushing that PAL should only order the A330-800neo or that PAL should replaced there A330-300 with the A338 which can get annoying and he can be a bit defensive if someone questions his reasoning or justification for the A338.

I'm going to be frank here, this is partly true. Mentioning the A338 once? Pretty harmless. But going to multiple airline threads (not just PR's) praising the A338 and essentially begging airlines to order it? Yes, it can be annoying when done repeatedly over a long period of time. It's kind of similar to how A380 fanboys don't exactly have the best reputation here, or how "757 restart when?" threads are a bit of a joke here. I don't blame him for liking the aircraft and everyone's free to have their own favorites (for all its failings, I still have a soft spot for the A380), but at times we may need to limit ourselves and be realistic. I mean I'd love to see PR to order the A380, but that ship sailed a long time ago (if that ship ever existed) and it's too late now.
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LurveBus
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:56 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
I'm going to be frank here, this is partly true. Mentioning the A338 once? Pretty harmless. But going to multiple airline threads (not just PR's) praising the A338 and essentially begging airlines to order it? Yes, it can be annoying when done repeatedly over a long period of time. It's kind of similar to how A380 fanboys don't exactly have the best reputation here, or how "757 restart when?" threads are a bit of a joke here. I don't blame him for liking the aircraft and everyone's free to have their own favorites (for all its failings, I still have a soft spot for the A380), but at times we may need to limit ourselves and be realistic. I mean I'd love to see PR to order the A380, but that ship sailed a long time ago (if that ship ever existed) and it's too late now.


About the A380, PAL really did consider it. After all, in theory, NAIA was super congested, and upgauging is an excellent way to make the most out of limited slots in a congested airport. There was even a time in the early part of this decade, a few years before Airbus was going to end production, that there was a sort of fire sale of A380 newbuilds, and PAL was seriously considering grabbing a few instead of adding more 77Ws. But they calmed down and went for the 77W instead. The main disadvantages being:

1) Cargo. In a J-W-Y config, the A380 would’ve been able to seat more than 600 passengers, and while the payload for transpac wasn’t a problem, the volume for baggage was. The A380 really didn’t have all that much cargo space per passenger relative to single-deck aircraft, and that is a major consideration for MNL ops, as any ramp agent in the west coast will tell you.

2) Infrastructure. This is an old issue. MNL’s taxiway separation didn’t allow for any wide body to be on a taxiway while an A380 uses the runway and vice versa. So all of these A380s arriving in MNL come in during ungodly hours when nobody else is flying. Doesn’t make for convenient scheduling, and so the benefits of upgauging don’t really translate into more effective use of slots.

#1 could’ve been addressed by a second frequency to LAX/SFO with an A350 that would scoop up the cargo. But #2 couldn’t really be fixed without a radical runway realignment. So yeah, the A380 wouldn’t have been a practical choice (otherwise, they’d totally send them to HKG and NRT while in between rotations)

And as for devilfish and the A338, calm down, he talks about the A338 all over the forum. If anything, he’s one of the few that keeps the A338 love alive in a.net. It isn’t just PAL that he’s pushing it for.

And had the pandemic not happened, our own neighbor Garuda would’ve had the A338 by now, and for them, it’s a really perfect plane.
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:03 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
AB330 wrote:
Speaking of A342 the French Goverment is selling there two VIP A340-200 for 80,000 euros each (11% VAT not included) I wonder if we could squeeze a good few years on this as the new Kalayaan One :stirthepot:


I guess that new Gulfstream the PAF bought doesn't count?

LurveBus wrote:
So PAL is very familiar with what it would take to make thin long haul routes work. And for that, they already chose the A359.

Had they not ordered the A359, maybe the A338 would have a place in their fleet.


This is one of the reasons why I don't think PR will ever order the A338. It's such a niche aircraft for an airline that never operated the A332, and most if not all of its intended jobs are already being done quite well with the A333/A359 combination (and to a lesser extent the 77W too). PR ordering the A339 (to eventually replace the A333s) is not out of the question and is even plausible, but the question is will that program even still be around by the time the time comes for A333 replacements (remember that those are still fairly young and still have some years left in them). But the A338? It's wishful thinking on par with PR ordering the A380.


Not sure how this became a double post, please delete that post
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AB330
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:28 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
AB330 wrote:
Speaking of A342 the French Goverment is selling there two VIP A340-200 for 80,000 euros each (11% VAT not included) I wonder if we could squeeze a good few years on this as the new Kalayaan One :stirthepot:

I guess that new Gulfstream the PAF bought doesn't count?[


Forgot about the G280 being a recent edition to the PAF my bad :ashamed:

Being in the defense community I've read that the G280 was to small to served as a proper command and control (C2) aircraft which the DND and PAF keep calling it along with the C-295M assigned to the 250th Presidential Airlift Wing (While the three C-295 are assigned to the 220th Airlift Wing based in Mactan), I've read a proposal for a proper VVIP fleet for the PAF.

2-3 Twin propeller driven aircraft. For used on unpaved air fields or short domestic hops within luzon and parts of visayas. For aircraft types contenders are the Beechcraft King Air, Super King Air and the Piaggio P.180

At less 2 either Super Mid-sized or Large Business Jets . for used by the President on domestic or regional trips in asia and australia. And for used by other cabinet members and VP. Possible contenders are the Bombardier Challenger 300/350, Gulfstream G280 and Cessna
Soverign for Super mid-sized. While for the Large Jets there is the Dassult Falcon 2000,Cessna Latitude and Gulfstream G500/600.

At less 1 Long range business jet or VIP airliner. for used by the President for distant overseas trips along with his entourage of cabinet members and the press corps. This really requires a large aircraft since the president entourage is quite large hency why they rent aircraft from PAL fleet then have a dedicated aircraft as a standard long range business jet like the Bombardier Global Express and Gulfstream G650/700 won't be enough to to carry the presidents entourage so its either the Airbus A320 family and Boeing 737 would be better suited for the job IMHO.

Additionally when the PAF eventually acquires a Multi-role fighter either the JAS 39 Gripen or F-16V Block 70/72 they previously mentioned a requirement for at less 1 Multi-role tanker transport MRTT its plausible that a 2nd aircraft can be aquired which could also be used as a presidential aircraft can be aquired similar style to the UK Borris Force One which is Voyager MRTT in VVIP configuration. Additionally it could also be used to evacuate filipino citizens out of a country when it is hit by a major crisis likely complementing charcter aircraft from both PAL and CEB. But this would be more of long term goal since an MRTT won't be cheap especially if its a new frame rather then a converted Airliner.
 
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:10 pm

Speaking of PR, are there any new updates on their 2021 timetable?
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Bobby27ph
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:46 am

This fleet debate is pointless...

Even airline bosses dunno what’s happening... it’s all speculations!

You think PAL will gamble millions by reading all these??

Unless you’re at a director level (in PAL)...
Live. Love. Fly.

Across 4 continents.

Avsim.net keyword: Bobby Santos
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:52 am

Bobby27ph wrote:
This fleet debate is pointless...

Even airline bosses dunno what’s happening... it’s all speculations!

You think PAL will gamble millions by reading all these??

Unless you’re at a director level (in PAL)...


Exactly. With the current downturn in air travel and PR's own financial problems, asking for PR to order the A338 or any other type is ill-timed given that PR's current priority is to survive, not expand. Once air travel picks up again, then assuming PR's finances are healthier, then maybe that would be the time to order new planes. However, by then, it's also likely that the A330neo program will be shuttered, so if PR were to order new frames of that size, more A350s or 787s are instead more plausible. But again, it's better to cross the bridge when we get there.
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Devilfish
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:48 pm

AB330 wrote:
However it seems that Devilfish is pushing that PAL should only order the A330-800neo or that PAL should replaced there A330-300 with the A338 which can get annoying and he can be a bit defensive if someone questions his reasoning or justification for the A338.

Nowhere did I say that PAL should only order the A338. This is an online forum so everyone has the right to defend his position...even against annoyingly inane opinions.

filipinoavgeek wrote:
Had PR operated the A330-200 in the past, the A338 would have actually made a lot of sense. The A338 is basically an evolution of that and would have fit in nicely with their fleet.
AB330 wrote:
Just realized that too most of the current customers of the A338 where previously operators of the A330-200. So it made sense why they ordered the A330-800neo

An airline orders aircraft based on a current or imminent need, not on their past requirements. This pandemic has radically altered the medium term outlook as well.

filipinoavgeek wrote:
I'm going to be frank here, this is partly true. Mentioning the A338 once? Pretty harmless. But going to multiple airline threads (not just PR's) praising the A338 and essentially begging airlines to order it? Yes, it can be annoying when done repeatedly over a long period of time.

There you go again. For someone ostensively annoyed by the mere mention of the model, you seem to have an insatiable desire to dwell on it. Only in your world does suggestion equal to begging.

AB330 wrote:
Besides those mentioned Garuda is said to have ordered the A338 with four to be leased likely to replaced there exsisting A332 fleet.

LurveBus wrote:
And had the pandemic not happened, our own neighbor Garuda would’ve had the A338 by now, and for them, it’s a really perfect plane.

I do wonder what makes the A338 perfect for GA yet unthinkably useless for PR...theirs was either an MoU or an LoI only. Don't look now, but those four could surprisingly turn up somewhere else! :duck:

AB330 wrote:
Speaking of A342 the French Goverment is selling there two VIP A340-200 for 80,000 euros each (11% VAT not included) I wonder if we could squeeze a good few years on this as the new Kalayaan One

The PAF might get a better deal if PR hadn't found a buyer yet for one of their old ex-IB birds. :biggrin:

AB330 wrote:
Being in the defense community I've read that the G280 was to small to served as a proper command and control (C2) aircraft which the DND and PAF keep calling it along with the C-295M assigned to the 250th Presidential Airlift Wing (While the three C-295 are assigned to the 220th Airlift Wing based in Mactan), I've read a proposal for a proper VVIP fleet for the PAF.

Those were just soundbytes to deflect the flak that would come with the acquisition...reality is the G280 is much too limited to do anything more (at once) than VIP transport. For all the aircraft that you list, the PAF would be lucky to get one A220-100LR instead. I read there may be a handful of white-tails due to the pandemic. Perhaps SMC would express their gratitude for the 50-year gateway franchise by procuring a TwoTwenty configured for State Transport, mixing elements of the layouts shown in #426? :flamed: Another VIP lav could be added and the galley annex modified to hold the closets instead (they can install a few overhead bins too). The crew rest can remain while the main cabin can be laid-out in 5-rows of 4-abreast front seats (angled-flat at least) as shown in #506. A multi-use section and a smaller stateroom with en-suite bath complete the package. :crossfingers:

AB330 wrote:
Additionally when the PAF eventually acquires a Multi-role fighter either the JAS 39 Gripen or F-16V Block 70/72 they previously mentioned a requirement for at less 1 Multi-role tanker transport MRTT its plausible that a 2nd aircraft can be aquired which could also be used as a presidential aircraft can be aquired similar style to the UK Borris Force One which is Voyager MRTT in VVIP configuration.

Belonging to the defense community, you must be aware that after the MRFs (still prefer the Gripen E) part of the +P4 trillion 2021 budget could be wisely allocated for the acquisition of a long-range surveillance platform (like the RAF is disposing) :?:

Bobby27ph wrote:
This fleet debate is pointless...Even airline bosses dunno what’s happening... it’s all speculations!

That is what makes it all fun and what keeps A.nut thriving. :bigthumbsup:

Bobby27ph wrote:
You think PAL will gamble millions by reading all these?? Unless you’re at a director level (in PAL)...

An airline director basing his decisions off these discussions doesn't deserve his seat. Of course, an airline executive worth his salt can also come here for amusement, but it's doubtful that he would have the time with all the problems besetting the industry at present! :headache: :headache: :headache:


A safe and HAPPY NEW YEAR to one and all :!: :old: :bomb: :champagne: :cheerful:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
AB330
Posts: 129
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:02 am

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:52 am

Devilfish wrote:
AB330 wrote:
Additionally when the PAF eventually acquires a Multi-role fighter either the JAS 39 Gripen or F-16V Block 70/72 they previously mentioned a requirement for at less 1 Multi-role tanker transport MRTT its plausible that a 2nd aircraft can be aquired which could also be used as a presidential aircraft can be aquired similar style to the UK Borris Force One which is Voyager MRTT in VVIP configuration.

Belonging to the defense community, you must be aware that after the MRFs (still prefer the Gripen E) part of the +P4 trillion 2021 budget could be wisely allocated for the acquisition of a long-range surveillance platform (like the RAF is disposing) :?:


Not on this site though :lol:

From what I've learn Saab only offered the JAS-39C/D Gripen and not the NG variant E/F due to it still being in development and price which is higher then the C/D version.

Though Saab is offering the latest version of the C/D with the MS20 avionics.

The DND favors the Gripen due to it being cheaper then the Viper and lower life cycle cost. The PAF on the other hand favors the F-16C/D Block 70 due to commonality and superior after sales support along with the chance the US giving EDA Ex-USAF F-16. Though Lockheed Martin packaged is more expensive then Saab offer due to the after sales support.

If I was personally asked what would be my pick for a future MRF it would either be the Eurofighter Typhoon or the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet as both are superior to either the Gripen and Viper have longer range and can carry more armaments. Not to mention there both Twin engines so incase if one engine is either damaged in combat or bird strike they can at less return to base. Though both are very expnesive to buy and operate :white:
 
iflypal
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 12:47 pm

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:17 am

Does anyone know why PAL is still not able to mount flights to Seoul or Busan? Both Asiana and Korean Air are able to fly MNL-ICN (as does Cebu Pacific albeit a very minimal frequency) and Jeju/Busan Air are able to do CRK and CEB to ICN/PUS. Of all destinations besides the US, i would have thought South Korea would have been one that PAL prioritizes. Does not appear they will be mounting flights anytime soon based on the 12/23 update of its timetable. Any insights?
 
Philippine747
Posts: 394
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:54 am

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:58 am

iflypal wrote:
Does anyone know why PAL is still not able to mount flights to Seoul or Busan? Both Asiana and Korean Air are able to fly MNL-ICN (as does Cebu Pacific albeit a very minimal frequency) and Jeju/Busan Air are able to do CRK and CEB to ICN/PUS. Of all destinations besides the US, i would have thought South Korea would have been one that PAL prioritizes. Does not appear they will be mounting flights anytime soon based on the 12/23 update of its timetable. Any insights?


Philippines-Korea is more of a tourist-heavy market. OZ and KE is probably going for the cargo and connecting pax for North America.

filipinoavgeek wrote:
Speaking of PR, are there any new updates on their 2021 timetable?


No new ones at the moment, expect it in the next few days. There were some changes to the planned frequencies over the past few weeks, and expect LHR to be temporarily suspended.
A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 AT75 AT76 B732 B733 B738 B744 B752(M) B763 B772 B77W DHC7 DH8C DH8D D328 MA60

2P 5J 6K CX DG EK GA KE MI PR VN OS QR A3 OK TG RA U4 JL GK UB K7 WE BR
 
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Devilfish
Posts: 7468
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:22 pm

AB330 wrote:
Not on this site though :lol:

Suffice it to say that the AFP still has a long way to go.....

https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1377113/p ... e-capacity

For the time being, this is the most that we could expect.....

https://www.flightglobal.com/aerospace/ ... 63.article



Over at SkyscraperCity, posters are calling out characters after Philstar had drawn a parallel between GoT and the NAIA saga.....

https://www.philstar.com/business/2020/ ... ns-edition

https://www.philstar.com/business/2020/ ... ey-bulacan

My question then is who's Walder Frey supposed to be :?:



Meanwhile, a new video update on CRK T2 has been released.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZoUcEw ... e=emb_logo

https://www.gmanetwork.com/news/lifesty ... y/?just_in

Considering opening is being delayed to the 2nd quarter of 2021 and this would be the last update for the year, LIPAD could really pay closer attention to details and be more deliberate in their execution -- unless a contract clause compels them to finish the installations and outfitting earlier. :spin:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
docjowl
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:21 am

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:02 am

When Will Cebu Pacific Get Its 460 Seater All Economy A330neos?

https://simpleflying.com/cebu-pacific-a ... y-a330neo/
 
AB330
Posts: 129
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:02 am

Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:48 pm

docjowl wrote:
When Will Cebu Pacific Get Its 460 Seater All Economy A330neos?

https://simpleflying.com/cebu-pacific-a ... y-a330neo/


From what I recall Cebu Pacific was said to be talk with Airbus about revising its order book with Airbus and deferrals for the delivery of the A330-900neo, A321XLR and A320neo. Delivery for the A321neo (Non-ULR) seem to remain unchanged but has noticebly slowed.

Guess will have to wait next year for any progress on the A339neo
 
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SQ22
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Re: Philippine Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:13 pm

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Philippine Aviation Thread - 2021

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