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wildwobby
Posts: 26
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:34 pm

ORD is a cluster-f right now.

Only 9R open.
Many diversions.
SKW5703 just had to abort takeoff due to proceeding arrival unable to clear runway completely due to "10 trucks that didn't give way"
A319 A320 A321 A346 A380 B712 B733 B735 B736 B737 B738 B748 B739 B752 B753 B763 B772 B77W B788 CONC CRJ2 CRJ7 CRJ9 DC10 E120 E145 F100 MD80 MD83 MD88 MD90
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:19 pm

United has announced more 787 service from O'Hare, replacing its 772's with Dreamliners to Beijing and Shanghai in Spring.

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... 10aHc9PSJ9

787-9's will operate to PVG starting May 8 and 787-8's to PEK on June 4.
 
ORDfan
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:38 pm

airborneX0101 wrote:
ORDfan wrote:
airborneX0101 wrote:
For those of you that are interested, I got a picture of the American Airlines MD-80 that was donated to Lewis University, parked right next to the 737-200 that United Airlines donated over 20 years ago.


This is awesome! Thanks for sharing! Can I ask if you took this photo from a public spot, or do you have access to the airfield? I would love for it to be open to the public some day, if the students don't tear it apart first haha.


I took this photo from right behind a fence that runs along one of the student parking lots on campus, and if you get to it, that's about as good of a view of it that you'll get without accessing the airfield. Ironically, I'm not in the aviation program at Lewis, so I don't have access to the airfield. I heard the school will be hosting some sort of an event to dedicate the MD-80, but I'm not sure when that will be and whether it'll be open to the public.

Haha yeah I don't know if any of the students are able to get their hands on it yet, but I do know that the students and staff keep the 737-200 in operable condition because they fire those engines up a few times a month and I'm sure that will be the case for the MD-80.


Very cool. Great to know..I've got family out that way in the SW burbs, so I'll definitely plan on swinging by some day to take a peek. My sister went to Lewis and I did briefly look at their aviation program - I remember doing a campus tour that included a walk-around for that 737.

If hear any details of the event and if it's open to the public, please share here or send me a PM.

Cheers
 
ORDfan
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:48 pm

yeogeo wrote:
United has announced more 787 service from O'Hare, replacing its 772's with Dreamliners to Beijing and Shanghai in Spring.

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... 10aHc9PSJ9

787-9's will operate to PVG starting May 8 and 787-8's to PEK on June 4.


This is at once kind of exiting to me, and a bit sad too. Growing up, the UA 772's were a common site around ORD, and it seems like they are going to be increasingly rare as we get older. A sign of times. No doubt UA knows whats best for their economics, and of course, the Dreamliners have proved to be efficient and lean birds. I'm glad most of the 772s will stay stay in the air and at the airport, but seems a bit sad to see them restricted to domestic use.

On a related note. Polaris is a great product and it is an even better treat in 1-1-1 on the 763s. I'm glad to hear they are doing well with the premium heavy configurations at ORD. I I hope can keep those 763s in service for years to come, and if and when the time comes for the Boeing MMA, I hope the cabin width is geared towards 1-1-1 J product with a 2-3-2 Y product.
 
gabik001
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:43 am

ORDfan wrote:

airborneX0101 wrote:
For those of you that are interested, I got a picture of the American Airlines MD-80 that was donated to Lewis University, parked right next to the 737-200 that United Airlines donated over 20 years ago.


This is awesome! Thanks for sharing! Can I ask if you took this photo from a public spot, or do you have access to the airfield? I would love for it to be open to the public some day, if the students don't tear it apart first haha.

You can get to Lewis University and go thru the main gate (you can ask guard how to get to see that donated airplane i think is a lot C). Once you get there if you have wide angle lens you are fine. Just take few pics over the fence.
Canon 50D gripped + Canon 70D + 17-40 L + 24-105 L IS + 50 f/1.8 STM + 100-400L IS USM + Sigma 150-600 S
 
windycity613
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:18 am

Is there a customer gas station at ORD?
 
elbandgeek
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:53 pm

windycity613 wrote:
Is there a customer gas station at ORD?


They announced a new travel plaza off of Higgins that was scheduled to open in November but as far as I know it didn't and I haven't heard anything about it in months.
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:40 pm

elbandgeek wrote:
windycity613 wrote:
Is there a customer gas station at ORD?


They announced a new travel plaza off of Higgins that was scheduled to open in November but as far as I know it didn't and I haven't heard anything about it in months.


Looks like the southeast corner of Mannheim & Zemke would be a perfect place for one. It almost looks like the stage is set for it...
 
ORDfan
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:48 am

United787 wrote:
elbandgeek wrote:
windycity613 wrote:
Is there a customer gas station at ORD?


They announced a new travel plaza off of Higgins that was scheduled to open in November but as far as I know it didn't and I haven't heard anything about it in months.


Looks like the southeast corner of Mannheim & Zemke would be a perfect place for one. It almost looks like the stage is set for it...


I thought that lot was supposed to be low-rise office space? In either case, it looks like a retention pond today... not sure if anything will get built on it.

There is a BP station just north of Higgins on Mannheim (north of the McDonalds), but I don't believe that's the one that was scheduled to be built. In any case, it's a pretty big station, and as far as I know, the closest fuel station to the eastern side of the airport. It's usually pretty busy with cab and Uber drivers.

Speaking of travel plazas. I noticed that IDOT left the support columns standing in the middle of 294 from the old O'hare travel plaza. I've always thought that the State was missing a huge opportunity to rebuild it after widening the lanes. Any chance the State's had a change of heart, or at that very least, leaving the possibility open? Seems strange to leave the columns remaining for this long, since all the other pieces have been long gone.
 
ORDfan
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:50 am

CPD opened a new O'hare station last week. The old one was in the way of the T5 expansion (guessing the ramp). Does anyone know where this new one is located, just out of curiousity. Judging by the photo, I'm guessing its still somewhere in that vicinity of T5? Or possibly by the old rental car lots?

You can see the ATS track visible in this photo below:

Image

https://wbbm780.radio.com/articles/new- ... es-history
 
gabik001
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:07 am

Just read (unconfirmed yet) that PIA will restart service to ORD (JFK and YYZ as well) in April. That would be nice, but what I remember this airline restarted service to ORD twice in the past...
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:26 pm


Volaris has announced nonstop service between O'Hare and Leon/Guanajuato (BJX) starting this Spring using A320's 3/week.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-20200123


Image
Maps generated by the Great Circle Mapper - copyright © Karl L. Swartz.

BJX serves the cities of León, Guanajuato and San Miguel de Allende, this last not as well known as the beach destinations in Mexico, but a ex-pat haven for both Americans & Europeans. With consistent mild weather year-round, at 6200 feet elevation, SMdA experiences warm days and cool nights.
 
TrafficCop
Posts: 68
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:35 pm

ORDfan wrote:
United787 wrote:
elbandgeek wrote:

They announced a new travel plaza off of Higgins that was scheduled to open in November but as far as I know it didn't and I haven't heard anything about it in months.


Looks like the southeast corner of Mannheim & Zemke would be a perfect place for one. It almost looks like the stage is set for it...


I thought that lot was supposed to be low-rise office space? In either case, it looks like a retention pond today... not sure if anything will get built on it.

There is a BP station just north of Higgins on Mannheim (north of the McDonalds), but I don't believe that's the one that was scheduled to be built. In any case, it's a pretty big station, and as far as I know, the closest fuel station to the eastern side of the airport. It's usually pretty busy with cab and Uber drivers.

Speaking of travel plazas. I noticed that IDOT left the support columns standing in the middle of 294 from the old O'hare travel plaza. I've always thought that the State was missing a huge opportunity to rebuild it after widening the lanes. Any chance the State's had a change of heart, or at that very least, leaving the possibility open? Seems strange to leave the columns remaining for this long, since all the other pieces have been long gone.


Those are new support columns for the flyovers for extensions of Elgin-Ohare extension Northbound to I-90.. A great place to see how the roadway extends is by looking at the West side of field on airportviewer.com.
http://airportviewer.com/airport/KORD
 
ORDfan
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:58 pm

TrafficCop wrote:
ORDfan wrote:
United787 wrote:

Looks like the southeast corner of Mannheim & Zemke would be a perfect place for one. It almost looks like the stage is set for it...


I thought that lot was supposed to be low-rise office space? In either case, it looks like a retention pond today... not sure if anything will get built on it.

There is a BP station just north of Higgins on Mannheim (north of the McDonalds), but I don't believe that's the one that was scheduled to be built. In any case, it's a pretty big station, and as far as I know, the closest fuel station to the eastern side of the airport. It's usually pretty busy with cab and Uber drivers.

Speaking of travel plazas. I noticed that IDOT left the support columns standing in the middle of 294 from the old O'hare travel plaza. I've always thought that the State was missing a huge opportunity to rebuild it after widening the lanes. Any chance the State's had a change of heart, or at that very least, leaving the possibility open? Seems strange to leave the columns remaining for this long, since all the other pieces have been long gone.


Those are new support columns for the flyovers for extensions of Elgin-Ohare extension Northbound to I-90.. A great place to see how the roadway extends is by looking at the West side of field on airportviewer.com.
http://airportviewer.com/airport/KORD


Hmm, I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing? You're talking about the old Des Plaines oasis, and yes, those columns are for flyover on 90, and they are new - those are not a holdover from the old Des Plaines oasis. What I'm referring to is the old structural support columns on the old O'hare oasis on 294. Those have not been torn down even though roadwork surrounding them has started.

Photo below:

Image
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:01 am

Deleted (didn't read carefully -- sorry)
 
airportplan
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:29 am

There is a Mobil gas station that is under construction at the S.E. corner of Higgins and Patton. The station also includes 16 Tesla Super Chargers.
 
dopplerd
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:25 am

ORDfan wrote:
CPD opened a new O'hare station last week. The old one was in the way of the T5 expansion (guessing the ramp). Does anyone know where this new one is located, just out of curiousity. Judging by the photo, I'm guessing its still somewhere in that vicinity of T5? Or possibly by the old rental car lots?

You can see the ATS track visible in this photo below:

Image

https://wbbm780.radio.com/articles/new- ... es-history


CPD just moved from east to west side of the ats tracks. The old one has been down for a few months now. This is an existing building that has been repurposed.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:13 pm

City signs deal with SOM and HNTB:

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg-hi ... are-reboot

Contracts signed with Skidmore Owings & Merrill for the 140M satellite terminals and with the Kansas City-based civil engineering firm HNTB which includes the all-important tunnel project.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:52 pm

...speaking of the tunnel project, HNTB was the lead designer for Seattle's newly-opened SR 99 Alaskan Way Tunnel, most famous for the Hitachi Zosen Machine, a 57.5 foot diameter borer named Bertha, which got into a bit of trouble on its way under the Seattle waterfront (nothing to do with HNTB, it should be noted).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertha_(t ... ng_machine)#cite_note-Newcomb2014-2
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:41 pm

Sorry - link above should be:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertha_(t ... ng_machine)

(edit) %#$$% -doesn't work either.
Just Google "Bertha (tunnel boring machine)"
 
sonicruiser
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:43 pm

Second case of the coronavirus in the US reported in Chicago, the woman passed through O' Hare on Jan 13.

https://myfox8.com/2020/01/24/cdc-says- ... ase-in-us/
شما می توانید مردم را تحریم کنید ، اما نمی توانید سبک تحریم را اعمال کنید

You can sanction people, but you can't sanction style
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:16 pm

yeogeo wrote:
...speaking of the tunnel project, HNTB was the lead designer for Seattle's newly-opened SR 99 Alaskan Way Tunnel, most famous for the Hitachi Zosen Machine, a 57.5 foot diameter borer named Bertha, which got into a bit of trouble on its way under the Seattle waterfront (nothing to do with HNTB, it should be noted).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertha_(t ... ng_machine)#cite_note-Newcomb2014-2


I am guessing that the ORD tunnel will be a cut and cover operation, not a boring operation.

Great news that they are finally under contract with SOM and HNTB though!
 
Planeboy17
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:21 pm

gabik001 wrote:
Just read (unconfirmed yet) that PIA will restart service to ORD (JFK and YYZ as well) in April. That would be nice, but what I remember this airline restarted service to ORD twice in the past...


Yes, PIA has been here twice before, I think in the mid 90s and then again from around 2003-2010 or around then.
So far only JFK has been confirmed at only 3 a week.
YYZ is not a restart, they currently serve it.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they have ambitions of serving ORD again but I don’t think it’s coming anytime soon.
Just my 2 cents.
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:28 pm

yeogeo wrote:
Volaris has announced nonstop service between O'Hare and Leon/Guanajuato (BJX) starting this Spring using A320's 3/week.


This is great news! On my bucket list + I have like 4 neighbors on my block that spend quite a bit of time down there in the winter.

Does UA fly there non-stop from Chicago?
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:55 pm

United787 wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
Volaris has announced nonstop service between O'Hare and Leon/Guanajuato (BJX) starting this Spring using A320's 3/week.

Does UA fly there non-stop from Chicago?


They inaugurated ORD-BJX in October'18 (daily with E-175's), but suspended it in September'19 due to MAX fallout.
https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-ai ... ons-mount/

UA still flies 4/daily IAH-BJX year-round I believe, also with E-175's.
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:35 pm

yeogeo wrote:
Sorry - link above should be:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertha_(t ... ng_machine)

(edit) %#$$% -doesn't work either.
Just Google "Bertha (tunnel boring machine)"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertha_(tunnel_boring_machine)

Had to help a good contributor.

Hopefully, we won't experience the same issues as Seattle, given that Illinois soil//clay/bedrock seem to be predictable. Their issues seem to have stemmed from their proximity to the ocean.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:23 pm

United787 wrote:
Great news that they are finally under contract with SOM and HNTB though!


Forward progress is a good thing! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

chidino wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
Sorry - link above should be:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertha_(t ... ng_machine)

(edit) %#$$% -doesn't work either.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertha_(tunnel_boring_machine)

Had to help a good contributor.


Thanks, 'dino :bigthumbsup:
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:58 am

yeogeo wrote:
United787 wrote:
Great news that they are finally under contract with SOM and HNTB though!


Forward progress is a good thing! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

chidino wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
Sorry - link above should be:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertha_(t ... ng_machine)

(edit) %#$$% -doesn't work either.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertha_(tunnel_boring_machine)

Had to help a good contributor.


Thanks, 'dino :bigthumbsup:


Handsome pup... have to.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:13 pm

A couple of new ORD articles:

Crain's on the busiest airport by operations lead widening over ATL:

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg-hi ... st-airport

"What’s most interesting is how O’Hare is doing better now compared to itself. For well over a decade, total operations—the combined number of arrivals and departures—stalled at a bit under 900,000 at O'Hare. For instance, according to the FAA, for the period 2010 to 2013, annual operations averaged 880,000, with the figure dropping to 873,000 from 2014 to 2017. Now, with federal flight caps gone and United and American airlines in particular adding lots of flights, an apparent corner has been turned. That explains why the city and the carriers are pushing an $8.5 billion expansion of O’Hare’s gate capacity—the airport literally is out of space to park aircraft."

Odd that there is no mention of the nearly completed runway O'Hare Master Plan - you'd think that would be an obvious factor to point to as a contributor.


...& The Sun-Times with an update on the Terminal Area Plan as well as a bit of the history of the project:

"Chicago-based architectural giant Skidmore, Owings & Merrill will be paid $140 million to design two new satellite concourses at O’Hare Airport that will cost $1.4 billion, accommodate wide-body jets and be twice as roomy as existing concourses. The five-year contract — and the selection of HNTB to serve as lead civil engineer — was hailed as a “critical milestone” in the $8.7 billion O’Hare expansion project former Mayor Rahm Emanuel pushed through the City Council before leaving office."

https://chicago.suntimes.com/city-hall/ ... concourses
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:51 pm

Personally, not a fan of this special livery (on Air India's VI-ALN), shown here departing O'Hare earlier this month, but this photo sure has earned a lot of views in only a couple of days - some 3 thousand.



Reminds me of horizontal ads inside subway cars. Still... a nice view of the new American Airlines hangar ;)


chidino wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
chidino wrote:
Had to help a good contributor.

Thanks, 'dino :bigthumbsup:

Handsome pup... have to.


That "pup" is Flora, actually an old gal now, but still great!
 
Crosswind787
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:58 pm

yeogeo wrote:
A couple of new ORD articles:

Crain's on the busiest airport by operations lead widening over ATL:

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg-hi ... st-airport

"What’s most interesting is how O’Hare is doing better now compared to itself. For well over a decade, total operations—the combined number of arrivals and departures—stalled at a bit under 900,000 at O'Hare. For instance, according to the FAA, for the period 2010 to 2013, annual operations averaged 880,000, with the figure dropping to 873,000 from 2014 to 2017. Now, with federal flight caps gone and United and American airlines in particular adding lots of flights, an apparent corner has been turned. That explains why the city and the carriers are pushing an $8.5 billion expansion of O’Hare’s gate capacity—the airport literally is out of space to park aircraft."

Odd that there is no mention of the nearly completed runway O'Hare Master Plan - you'd think that would be an obvious factor to point to as a contributor.


...& The Sun-Times with an update on the Terminal Area Plan as well as a bit of the history of the project:

"Chicago-based architectural giant Skidmore, Owings & Merrill will be paid $140 million to design two new satellite concourses at O’Hare Airport that will cost $1.4 billion, accommodate wide-body jets and be twice as roomy as existing concourses. The five-year contract — and the selection of HNTB to serve as lead civil engineer — was hailed as a “critical milestone” in the $8.7 billion O’Hare expansion project former Mayor Rahm Emanuel pushed through the City Council before leaving office."

https://chicago.suntimes.com/city-hall/ ... concourses


That crains article states traffic movements are up 1.8% over last year, which increases ORDs lead over ATL even more.
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:59 pm

Crosswind787 wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
A couple of new ORD articles:

Crain's on the busiest airport by operations lead widening over ATL:

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg-hi ... st-airport

"What’s most interesting is how O’Hare is doing better now compared to itself. For well over a decade, total operations—the combined number of arrivals and departures—stalled at a bit under 900,000 at O'Hare. For instance, according to the FAA, for the period 2010 to 2013, annual operations averaged 880,000, with the figure dropping to 873,000 from 2014 to 2017. Now, with federal flight caps gone and United and American airlines in particular adding lots of flights, an apparent corner has been turned. That explains why the city and the carriers are pushing an $8.5 billion expansion of O’Hare’s gate capacity—the airport literally is out of space to park aircraft."

Odd that there is no mention of the nearly completed runway O'Hare Master Plan - you'd think that would be an obvious factor to point to as a contributor.


...& The Sun-Times with an update on the Terminal Area Plan as well as a bit of the history of the project:

"Chicago-based architectural giant Skidmore, Owings & Merrill will be paid $140 million to design two new satellite concourses at O’Hare Airport that will cost $1.4 billion, accommodate wide-body jets and be twice as roomy as existing concourses. The five-year contract — and the selection of HNTB to serve as lead civil engineer — was hailed as a “critical milestone” in the $8.7 billion O’Hare expansion project former Mayor Rahm Emanuel pushed through the City Council before leaving office."

https://chicago.suntimes.com/city-hall/ ... concourses


That crains article states traffic movements are up 1.8% over last year, which increases ORDs lead over ATL even more.


Ironically, the Sun-Times article includes Muller + Muller's conception of the T5 expansion, not an SOM drawing of the concourses. But, in aviation as well as journalism, "close" seems to be good enough. Who cares, right?
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:39 pm

chidino wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
A couple of new ORD articles:

Crain's on the busiest airport by operations lead widening over ATL...& The Sun-Times with an update on the Terminal Area Plan as well as a bit of the history of the project...

Ironically, the Sun-Times article includes Muller + Muller's conception of the T5 expansion, not an SOM drawing of the concourses. But, in aviation as well as journalism, "close" seems to be good enough. Who cares, right?


Well done, chidino! Should've noticed the M-gate signs in the illustration ...and the S-times captions it "Skidmore, Owings & Merrill has signed a five-year, $140 million contract to design two new satellite concourses as part of the massive O’Hare Airport expansion project."
I'd call it sloppy.
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:39 am

I apologize for the seemingly selfish post, but I can't think of a better audience to appreciate these pictures. While I'm quick to think of O'Hare in functionary terms, sometimes it takes my breath away:

Image
Image

(I am a proud American and no revolutionary, but the TSA has no business taking these views away from us. What a waste. And don't jump down my drawers and say "safety dictates" -- TSA is perfectly capable of doing their job from anywhere else. They most assuredly do not need the best real estate to do it.)

Oh, lest anybody panic, given that it was mistakenly listed as an "endangered site" by Landmarks Illinois: the Rotunda Building/Seven Continents structure is part of the TAP for O'Hare 21 and will be preserved.
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 26, 2020 3:21 pm

Great photos chidino, would love to see the rotunda restored to all its former glory.
 
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kngkyle
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:02 pm

China Eastern back to daily, good to some some of the recent capacity lost being brought back.
 
ual763
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:19 pm

Totally agree. I want the Seven Continents restaurant to come back. It could be similar to “Classified” at EWR (except without the iPads). O’hare doesn’t really have any fine-dining restaurants whereas a myriad of other airports in the US do. I can’t think of a better place at ORD to put a nice restaurant other than here! Especially being connected to the OGT - will be lots of premium customers from all over the World passing right by it. While, it’s not as striking as the TWA terminal hotel at JFK, this is ORD’s own landmark, and should be preserved/cherished. I know there are a few people high up in the CDA on these threads. I really hope they consider this. Above all else though, I really think it should be open to the flying public, and not just elite customers as is Classified.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
ual763
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:26 pm

Here is a great article about the 7 Continents restaurant. Signature entree was Chicken Kiev.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct- ... story.html
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
User avatar
yeogeo
Posts: 1531
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:47 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:20 am

ual763 wrote:
Here is a great article about the 7 Continents restaurant. Signature entree was Chicken Kiev.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct- ... story.html


And more (since we're own the subject):
https://preservationchicago.org/chicago ... -building/

Note the caption on Chidino's second photo- "designer> Gertrude Kerbis".
Image
"Gertrude Kerbis was a groundbreaking architect and one of the first women at the forefront of Chicago architecture working in the modern style in the 1960s. She studied with Ludwig Mies van der Rohe at IIT in Chicago and later worked with Walter Gropius and Mies van der Rohe at Skidmore, Owings and Merrill and at Naess & Murphy/C.F. Murphy before opening her own architectural firm, Lempp Kerbis Architects, in 1967. Kerbis was one of very few female architects working in a male-dominated profession. She worked on the original O’Hare Terminal structures and the Chicago Civic Center, now known as the Richard J. Daley Center, a designated Chicago Landmark."

Interesting to come around again to SOM in the O'Hare21 Satellites!

...Sorry to keep returning to boyhood memories on this site - but here's another: I remember the clinking of glasses and hushed conversation when walking thru the rotunda on my way to the TWA gates...
although I have to admit the star of my memories was the TWA Departure board hanging just before the entrance to the rotunda. Wow! That was cool, with the flights clacking through changes as the flights departed. (Weird what stays in your head! Wish I could find a picture of that marvel - okay - I was 10!)

Anyway- thank goodness the Rotunda is to stay!
 
chidino
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:02 am

yeogeo wrote:
ual763 wrote:
Here is a great article about the 7 Continents restaurant. Signature entree was Chicken Kiev.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct- ... story.html


And more (since we're own the subject):
https://preservationchicago.org/chicago ... -building/

Note the caption on Chidino's second photo- "designer> Gertrude Kerbis".
Image
"Gertrude Kerbis was a groundbreaking architect and one of the first women at the forefront of Chicago architecture working in the modern style in the 1960s. She studied with Ludwig Mies van der Rohe at IIT in Chicago and later worked with Walter Gropius and Mies van der Rohe at Skidmore, Owings and Merrill and at Naess & Murphy/C.F. Murphy before opening her own architectural firm, Lempp Kerbis Architects, in 1967. Kerbis was one of very few female architects working in a male-dominated profession. She worked on the original O’Hare Terminal structures and the Chicago Civic Center, now known as the Richard J. Daley Center, a designated Chicago Landmark."

Interesting to come around again to SOM in the O'Hare21 Satellites!

...Sorry to keep returning to boyhood memories on this site - but here's another: I remember the clinking of glasses and hushed conversation when walking thru the rotunda on my way to the TWA gates...
although I have to admit the star of my memories was the TWA Departure board hanging just before the entrance to the rotunda. Wow! That was cool, with the flights clacking through changes as the flights departed. (Weird what stays in your head! Wish I could find a picture of that marvel - okay - I was 10!)

Anyway- thank goodness the Rotunda is to stay!


I remember going in there with my grandparents. Took my breath away.
 
muralir
Posts: 127
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 3:44 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:39 am

chidino wrote:
I apologize for the seemingly selfish post, but I can't think of a better audience to appreciate these pictures. While I'm quick to think of O'Hare in functionary terms, sometimes it takes my breath away:

Image
Image

(I am a proud American and no revolutionary, but the TSA has no business taking these views away from us. What a waste. And don't jump down my drawers and say "safety dictates" -- TSA is perfectly capable of doing their job from anywhere else. They most assuredly do not need the best real estate to do it.)

Oh, lest anybody panic, given that it was mistakenly listed as an "endangered site" by Landmarks Illinois: the Rotunda Building/Seven Continents structure is part of the TAP for O'Hare 21 and will be preserved.


I've never been upstairs in the Rotunda. What's there now? It looks like a perfect place for a lounge and I'm sure, given how cramped the terminals are, someone would pay good money for the space (Amex Centurion lounge? :-) ). If it's being used for offices, that's a waste of prime space.
 
muralir
Posts: 127
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 3:44 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:01 pm

chidino wrote:
Crosswind787 wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
A couple of new ORD articles:

Crain's on the busiest airport by operations lead widening over ATL:

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg-hi ... st-airport

"What’s most interesting is how O’Hare is doing better now compared to itself. For well over a decade, total operations—the combined number of arrivals and departures—stalled at a bit under 900,000 at O'Hare. For instance, according to the FAA, for the period 2010 to 2013, annual operations averaged 880,000, with the figure dropping to 873,000 from 2014 to 2017. Now, with federal flight caps gone and United and American airlines in particular adding lots of flights, an apparent corner has been turned. That explains why the city and the carriers are pushing an $8.5 billion expansion of O’Hare’s gate capacity—the airport literally is out of space to park aircraft."

Odd that there is no mention of the nearly completed runway O'Hare Master Plan - you'd think that would be an obvious factor to point to as a contributor.


...& The Sun-Times with an update on the Terminal Area Plan as well as a bit of the history of the project:

"Chicago-based architectural giant Skidmore, Owings & Merrill will be paid $140 million to design two new satellite concourses at O’Hare Airport that will cost $1.4 billion, accommodate wide-body jets and be twice as roomy as existing concourses. The five-year contract — and the selection of HNTB to serve as lead civil engineer — was hailed as a “critical milestone” in the $8.7 billion O’Hare expansion project former Mayor Rahm Emanuel pushed through the City Council before leaving office."

https://chicago.suntimes.com/city-hall/ ... concourses


That crains article states traffic movements are up 1.8% over last year, which increases ORDs lead over ATL even more.


Ironically, the Sun-Times article includes Muller + Muller's conception of the T5 expansion, not an SOM drawing of the concourses. But, in aviation as well as journalism, "close" seems to be good enough. Who cares, right?


Good pickup :-)
Is it just me or do those steps seem like a really bad idea? Sure, it looks pretty on mockups but notice none of those people have carry-ons. Steps like that are a pain for people to pull their carry-ons onto. It just doesn't work in an airport environment. This isn't a college student union or something where everyone has a backpack at most.

It's one of my pet peeves, how unrealistic the people and the setup in these mockups inevitably are. Looking through the people, I see 3 kids. IOW, apparently families don't fly, only hipsters with backpacks and manbuns. Oh yeah, one of those kids is on a scooter. Is there a single airport in the world that allows scooters in the terminal halls? In an airport, people's sense of the space they take up is already off because they're carting a carry-on. So the incidence of people bumping into each other is already higher than normal. Add things like scooters to that and it increases even more. Which is why no airport uses them.

Also, those seats look nice and wide open, but almost every airport seat design includes armrests, mainly to prevent people from laying down on 3-4 seats and sleeping. But since that ruins the aesthetics of this imaginary terminal, they don't include them.

At least there's one person in a wheelchair. Too bad half the terminal space (the steps) is not accessible to him.

And finally, in this small segment, I count 3 widebody gates with what look like pretty large aircraft already parked (which is what would be expected for T5). Yet the total amount of seating shown *for all three gates* is about what one needs for a single regional jet (and that's including the steps). It's easy to make a terminal look airy and breezy when you don't include the actual number of people that will be there, along with the inevitable stuff like chairs, walkways, etc. that all those pesky people need.

Anyway, I could go on, but I'll stop. What's the point of even making these stupid mockups if the base assumptions used aren't even remotely realistic? I don't care what a terminal looks like empty. I want to get a sense of how it will function for passengers when its stuffed to the gills. That's the mark of a good design.

EDIT:
Almost forgot: I feel sorry for the ticket agents who will be working those 3 international flights: the gate counter has space for all of 2 people to checkin an entire 777-worth of passengers. Also, I guess in the future all international travelers will be pre-cleared, since there's no sterile corridor to take arriving passengers directly to immigration. Wouldn't want to mess up those awesome views with something pedestrian like an actual plan for passenger flows...
 
jcwr56
Posts: 969
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:36 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:02 pm

muralir wrote:
chidino wrote:
Crosswind787 wrote:

That crains article states traffic movements are up 1.8% over last year, which increases ORDs lead over ATL even more.


Ironically, the Sun-Times article includes Muller + Muller's conception of the T5 expansion, not an SOM drawing of the concourses. But, in aviation as well as journalism, "close" seems to be good enough. Who cares, right?


Good pickup :-)
Is it just me or do those steps seem like a really bad idea? Sure, it looks pretty on mockups but notice none of those people have carry-ons. Steps like that are a pain for people to pull their carry-ons onto. It just doesn't work in an airport environment. This isn't a college student union or something where everyone has a backpack at most.

It's one of my pet peeves, how unrealistic the people and the setup in these mockups inevitably are. Looking through the people, I see 3 kids. IOW, apparently families don't fly, only hipsters with backpacks and manbuns. Oh yeah, one of those kids is on a scooter. Is there a single airport in the world that allows scooters in the terminal halls? In an airport, people's sense of the space they take up is already off because they're carting a carry-on. So the incidence of people bumping into each other is already higher than normal. Add things like scooters to that and it increases even more. Which is why no airport uses them.

Also, those seats look nice and wide open, but almost every airport seat design includes armrests, mainly to prevent people from laying down on 3-4 seats and sleeping. But since that ruins the aesthetics of this imaginary terminal, they don't include them.

At least there's one person in a wheelchair. Too bad half the terminal space (the steps) is not accessible to him.

And finally, in this small segment, I count 3 widebody gates with what look like pretty large aircraft already parked (which is what would be expected for T5). Yet the total amount of seating shown *for all three gates* is about what one needs for a single regional jet (and that's including the steps). It's easy to make a terminal look airy and breezy when you don't include the actual number of people that will be there, along with the inevitable stuff like chairs, walkways, etc. that all those pesky people need.

Anyway, I could go on, but I'll stop. What's the point of even making these stupid mockups if the base assumptions used aren't even remotely realistic? I don't care what a terminal looks like empty. I want to get a sense of how it will function for passengers when its stuffed to the gills. That's the mark of a good design.

EDIT:
Almost forgot: I feel sorry for the ticket agents who will be working those 3 international flights: the gate counter has space for all of 2 people to checkin an entire 777-worth of passengers. Also, I guess in the future all international travelers will be pre-cleared, since there's no sterile corridor to take arriving passengers directly to immigration. Wouldn't want to mess up those awesome views with something pedestrian like an actual plan for passenger flows...


The Sterile corridor is located ramp level starting at M27 and then flowing around to connect where the current 19/20/21 gates are located.

Believe me, you're not the only one who has pointed out the flaws. One only has to learn the lessons of the current T5 with lack of hold room space. This is why you see the massive hold room expansion between M7-M12. There will also be concessions located in the east expansion. Long term, the gates on east side will be for the domestic OA's which will be setup as MARS gates. Granted that's a good 8-9 years out.

Burger King should be opening up across from M7 within a few weeks.
 
chidino
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:24 pm

muralir wrote:
chidino wrote:
Crosswind787 wrote:

That crains article states traffic movements are up 1.8% over last year, which increases ORDs lead over ATL even more.


Ironically, the Sun-Times article includes Muller + Muller's conception of the T5 expansion, not an SOM drawing of the concourses. But, in aviation as well as journalism, "close" seems to be good enough. Who cares, right?


Good pickup :-)
Is it just me or do those steps seem like a really bad idea? Sure, it looks pretty on mockups but notice none of those people have carry-ons. Steps like that are a pain for people to pull their carry-ons onto. It just doesn't work in an airport environment. This isn't a college student union or something where everyone has a backpack at most.

It's one of my pet peeves, how unrealistic the people and the setup in these mockups inevitably are. Looking through the people, I see 3 kids. IOW, apparently families don't fly, only hipsters with backpacks and manbuns. Oh yeah, one of those kids is on a scooter. Is there a single airport in the world that allows scooters in the terminal halls? In an airport, people's sense of the space they take up is already off because they're carting a carry-on. So the incidence of people bumping into each other is already higher than normal. Add things like scooters to that and it increases even more. Which is why no airport uses them.

Also, those seats look nice and wide open, but almost every airport seat design includes armrests, mainly to prevent people from laying down on 3-4 seats and sleeping. But since that ruins the aesthetics of this imaginary terminal, they don't include them.

At least there's one person in a wheelchair. Too bad half the terminal space (the steps) is not accessible to him.

And finally, in this small segment, I count 3 widebody gates with what look like pretty large aircraft already parked (which is what would be expected for T5). Yet the total amount of seating shown *for all three gates* is about what one needs for a single regional jet (and that's including the steps). It's easy to make a terminal look airy and breezy when you don't include the actual number of people that will be there, along with the inevitable stuff like chairs, walkways, etc. that all those pesky people need.

Anyway, I could go on, but I'll stop. What's the point of even making these stupid mockups if the base assumptions used aren't even remotely realistic? I don't care what a terminal looks like empty. I want to get a sense of how it will function for passengers when its stuffed to the gills. That's the mark of a good design.

EDIT:
Almost forgot: I feel sorry for the ticket agents who will be working those 3 international flights: the gate counter has space for all of 2 people to checkin an entire 777-worth of passengers. Also, I guess in the future all international travelers will be pre-cleared, since there's no sterile corridor to take arriving passengers directly to immigration. Wouldn't want to mess up those awesome views with something pedestrian like an actual plan for passenger flows...


This is late 50's/early 60's design. (think "Catch Me If You Can"). Kerbis was one of the best architects working then, and the spaces are absolutely breathtaking. As far as check-in: you are talking about a completely different environment from what the cool cats faced in 1962. (I should know... born about then.) Please don't judge those facilities with the demands we place on modern counters/personnel. You're right to say it isn't adequate for today, but...
 
kbmiflyer
Posts: 295
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:47 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:23 pm

muralir wrote:
I've never been upstairs in the Rotunda. What's there now? It looks like a perfect place for a lounge and I'm sure, given how cramped the terminals are, someone would pay good money for the space (Amex Centurion lounge? :-) ). If it's being used for offices, that's a waste of prime space.


There is the USO and a mother nursing station upstairs. There is also a nice public sitting area surrounding a hydroponic garden used to grow spices for some of the restaurants in the airports. It is really a nice oasis in the busy airport. The airline crews know this a good place to rest between flights, so seating can be hard to get sometimes.
 
muralir
Posts: 127
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 3:44 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:11 pm

chidino wrote:
muralir wrote:
chidino wrote:

Ironically, the Sun-Times article includes Muller + Muller's conception of the T5 expansion, not an SOM drawing of the concourses. But, in aviation as well as journalism, "close" seems to be good enough. Who cares, right?


Good pickup :-)
Is it just me or do those steps seem like a really bad idea? Sure, it looks pretty on mockups but notice none of those people have carry-ons. Steps like that are a pain for people to pull their carry-ons onto. It just doesn't work in an airport environment. This isn't a college student union or something where everyone has a backpack at most.

It's one of my pet peeves, how unrealistic the people and the setup in these mockups inevitably are. Looking through the people, I see 3 kids. IOW, apparently families don't fly, only hipsters with backpacks and manbuns. Oh yeah, one of those kids is on a scooter. Is there a single airport in the world that allows scooters in the terminal halls? In an airport, people's sense of the space they take up is already off because they're carting a carry-on. So the incidence of people bumping into each other is already higher than normal. Add things like scooters to that and it increases even more. Which is why no airport uses them.

Also, those seats look nice and wide open, but almost every airport seat design includes armrests, mainly to prevent people from laying down on 3-4 seats and sleeping. But since that ruins the aesthetics of this imaginary terminal, they don't include them.

At least there's one person in a wheelchair. Too bad half the terminal space (the steps) is not accessible to him.

And finally, in this small segment, I count 3 widebody gates with what look like pretty large aircraft already parked (which is what would be expected for T5). Yet the total amount of seating shown *for all three gates* is about what one needs for a single regional jet (and that's including the steps). It's easy to make a terminal look airy and breezy when you don't include the actual number of people that will be there, along with the inevitable stuff like chairs, walkways, etc. that all those pesky people need.

Anyway, I could go on, but I'll stop. What's the point of even making these stupid mockups if the base assumptions used aren't even remotely realistic? I don't care what a terminal looks like empty. I want to get a sense of how it will function for passengers when its stuffed to the gills. That's the mark of a good design.

EDIT:
Almost forgot: I feel sorry for the ticket agents who will be working those 3 international flights: the gate counter has space for all of 2 people to checkin an entire 777-worth of passengers. Also, I guess in the future all international travelers will be pre-cleared, since there's no sterile corridor to take arriving passengers directly to immigration. Wouldn't want to mess up those awesome views with something pedestrian like an actual plan for passenger flows...


This is late 50's/early 60's design. (think "Catch Me If You Can"). Kerbis was one of the best architects working then, and the spaces are absolutely breathtaking. As far as check-in: you are talking about a completely different environment from what the cool cats faced in 1962. (I should know... born about then.) Please don't judge those facilities with the demands we place on modern counters/personnel. You're right to say it isn't adequate for today, but...


Just to be clear, my criticisms were about the T5 expansion mockup shown on the Sun-Times article, not the rotunda. I agree the rotunda is really nice and I'm glad they're going to preserve it.
 
chidino
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:19 am

muralir wrote:
Just to be clear, my criticisms were about the T5 expansion mockup shown on the Sun-Times article, not the rotunda. I agree the rotunda is really nice and I'm glad they're going to preserve it.


Makes two of us. :D
 
emcm541
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:59 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:27 pm

According to the Chicago Business Journal, UA to suspend flights from Chicago to China beginning February 1. Not super surprising considering the immediate health issues, but I hope this isn't an "excuse" to make long-term cuts from ORD-China.

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... kifQ%3D%3D
 
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yeogeo
Posts: 1531
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:47 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:18 am

emcm541 wrote:
According to the Chicago Business Journal, UA to suspend flights from Chicago to China beginning February 1. Not super surprising considering the immediate health issues, but I hope this isn't an "excuse" to make long-term cuts from ORD-China.

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... kifQ%3D%3D


This, so far, is for one week (February 1 through February 8). All United hubs are affected, so I don't see this as an "excuse" to reduce flights only at O'Hare; this is a world-wide phenomenon not specific to ORD or UA.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chin ... SKBN1ZR0DG

United has said that "a few" flights are to continue to HKG/PVG/PEK but i've been unable to determine which ones. Let us know if you come across the info!
 
User avatar
yeogeo
Posts: 1531
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:47 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:09 pm


For the first time SAS operated a A-350 on ORD-CPH yesterday (the 28th) and she will be a regular visitor for the time being:

SASViking wrote:
The A350 is only scheduled on CPH-ORD from 28 January to 07 June on 6 out of 7 weekly flights. The 7th weekly will be on A340. From 08 June the A350 will be replaced by A330 again on 6 out of 7 weekly flights. The 7th will remain A340.


Iberia operate theirs seasonally ORD-MAD and Lufthansa somewhat regularly on ORD-MUC, so still not an aircraft that's too common a sight on the field.

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