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User avatar
yeogeo
Posts: 1531
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:47 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:32 pm

yeogeo wrote:
emcm541 wrote:
According to the Chicago Business Journal, UA to suspend flights from Chicago to China beginning February 1. Not super surprising considering the immediate health issues, but I hope this isn't an "excuse" to make long-term cuts from ORD-China.

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... kifQ%3D%3D


This, so far, is for one week (February 1 through February 8). All United hubs are affected, so I don't see this as an "excuse" to reduce flights only at O'Hare; this is a world-wide phenomenon not specific to ORD or UA.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chin ... SKBN1ZR0DG

United has said that "a few" flights are to continue to HKG/PVG/PEK but i've been unable to determine which ones. Let us know if you come across the info!


More clarity now: Cuts are not for one week but start occurring over the week of Feb 1- Feb 8:
UA ORD-PEK Cancelled from Feb 6
UA ORD-PVG Reduced from 7 to 4/weekly

Also cancelled by United: EWR-PEK, EWR-HKG & IAD-PEK.
Other reduced flights: EWR-PVG, SFO-HKG, SFO-PVG

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-20200129
 
jplatts
Posts: 3692
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:53 pm

WN adding MDW-ELP nonstop service is a possibility once WN has more planes in its fleet with ELP being one of the top destinations traveled to from MDW that isn't currently served nonstop from MDW.

The PDEW of MDW-ELP in Q3 2019 was 39 passengers/day, which is only slightly lower than the PDEW of MDW-TUS in Q3 2019, which was only 41 passengers/day.

WN had also load factors of 91.4% on MDW-TUS nonstop service in Q3 2019, and over 70% of the passengers on MDW-TUS nonstop flights were connecting to other destinations through MDW in Q3 2019.

WN can likely make MDW-ELP nonstop service work since
(a) WN has over 45% market share at ELP vs. 27% market share at TUS,
(b) WN has a FF base in both the MDW and ELP markets to support MDW-ELP nonstop service,
(c) WN would be able to offer connections to additional markets from ELP if it adds MDW-ELP nonstop service, and
(d) the PDEW's on MDW-ELP would likely be higher than that of MDW-TUS if WN adds daily nonstop service to ELP from MDW with the PDEW's of MDW-ELP being almost as high as that of MDW-TUS.
 
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yeogeo
Posts: 1531
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:47 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:23 am

Noticed the thread on Emirates "wants to start" ORD-ATH.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1440091

The actual quote mentioning Chicago in the link, translated from the Greek reads:
"In the near future, the next step for Emirates is to increase Athens - Dubai flights twice a day throughout the year, compared to the winter season" said [Emirates' representative] Mr Al Zarooni, in a statement to [Greek website], "stressing that other links, such as Athens - Chicago, are also being considered."

Seems to me "considering" is a step or two back from "wants to start"... but we'll see. Interesting.
 
ORD2010
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:46 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:48 am

While exciting to see emirates showing more interest in ORD (never forget when 9W was trying to come our way, or etihad launch a second daily) I’d like to see a new destination not currently served from ORD, perhaps finally a chance to get MXP?
 
Crosswind787
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:50 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:47 am

What's the status on T5 expansion? How many gates will officially be added and what concessions will be added? And will T5 ever be connected post-security to the terminal core? Seems like a missed oppotunity if not (....metra and remote rental car facility) ... YET AGAIN!!!
 
User avatar
kordcj
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:18 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:10 am

jplatts wrote:
WN adding MDW-ELP nonstop service is a possibility once WN has more planes in its fleet with ELP being one of the top destinations traveled to from MDW that isn't currently served nonstop from MDW.

The PDEW of MDW-ELP in Q3 2019 was 39 passengers/day, which is only slightly lower than the PDEW of MDW-TUS in Q3 2019, which was only 41 passengers/day.

WN had also load factors of 91.4% on MDW-TUS nonstop service in Q3 2019, and over 70% of the passengers on MDW-TUS nonstop flights were connecting to other destinations through MDW in Q3 2019.

WN can likely make MDW-ELP nonstop service work since
(a) WN has over 45% market share at ELP vs. 27% market share at TUS,
(b) WN has a FF base in both the MDW and ELP markets to support MDW-ELP nonstop service,
(c) WN would be able to offer connections to additional markets from ELP if it adds MDW-ELP nonstop service, and
(d) the PDEW's on MDW-ELP would likely be higher than that of MDW-TUS if WN adds daily nonstop service to ELP from MDW with the PDEW's of MDW-ELP being almost as high as that of MDW-TUS.


It’ll be interesting to see if WN can get this to work. Since last year F9 has dropped ELP-ORD, UA has cut its operation to 1/day on a CR7, and AA scaled back from 2 738s to an E170 & CR7. If WN does add something to MDW, me thinks ELP will lose a frequency somewhere else. Would be nice to not have connect thru DAL/HOU/AUS to get to the NE.
The most obvious proof for intelligent life in the universe is that they haven't tried to contact us.
 
muralir
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 3:44 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:39 am

Crosswind787 wrote:
What's the status on T5 expansion? How many gates will officially be added and what concessions will be added? And will T5 ever be connected post-security to the terminal core? Seems like a missed oppotunity if not (....metra and remote rental car facility) ... YET AGAIN!!!


I don't think there are any plans for an airside connection. But long term, the need for such will be much less than now. T5 is scheduled to be for SkyTeam and non-aligned international airlines. *A and OneWorld will be in the new global terminal. So the number of inter-terminal connections will be a lot less than now. Besides, I don't see how a connection is physically possible aside from a tunnel...

(That said, there has been a bus connection airside for AA passengers connecting to BA. They should just make the bus be a regular airside shuttle from the different terminals to T5. Easy, cheap, and nearly as effective as a physical connection).
 
jcwr56
Posts: 979
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:36 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:09 pm

muralir wrote:
Crosswind787 wrote:
What's the status on T5 expansion? How many gates will officially be added and what concessions will be added? And will T5 ever be connected post-security to the terminal core? Seems like a missed oppotunity if not (....metra and remote rental car facility) ... YET AGAIN!!!


I don't think there are any plans for an airside connection. But long term, the need for such will be much less than now. T5 is scheduled to be for SkyTeam and non-aligned international airlines. *A and OneWorld will be in the new global terminal. So the number of inter-terminal connections will be a lot less than now. Besides, I don't see how a connection is physically possible aside from a tunnel...

(That said, there has been a bus connection airside for AA passengers connecting to BA. They should just make the bus be a regular airside shuttle from the different terminals to T5. Easy, cheap, and nearly as effective as a physical connection).


There's been a Terminal Transfer Bus for almost a year now for people flowing back from T5 to Terminals 1 and 3. It departs from M1 with 4 stops. The buses that are currently being used will be shifted over for Hardstand operations and a smaller more appropriate passenger bus will be used. The CDA added 2 additional screening lanes on the far east of the check in hall to facilitate screening for these passengers.

With the expansion, there will be a full sized proper bus gate just below M7 area, this will continue to allow for transfers between T5 and the OGT core.
 
AAplat4life
Posts: 324
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:14 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:37 pm

Particularly for T3, and to a lesser extent T1, the new T2 design looks difficult for connecting passengers. Imagine going from T-1 B, or T-3 L or the far ends of K or L to the main building in T2 (or the underground to get to one of the satellites). It’s going to be a long journey on foot. And there will still be passengers that will need to connect to T5, albeit to a lesser degree once alliance partners are consolidated in T2. The failure of the design to better integrate passengers to the other terminals is a disappointment.
 
chidino
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:39 pm

Crosswind787 wrote:
What's the status on T5 expansion? How many gates will officially be added and what concessions will be added? And will T5 ever be connected post-security to the terminal core? Seems like a missed oppotunity if not (....metra and remote rental car facility) ... YET AGAIN!!!


https://ord21.com/About/Pages/Happening-Now.aspx

Status: site prep under way; CDA says "the Terminal 5 extended concourse is expected to be completed in early 2021; new concessions and lounges are expected to open in late 2021; and the new baggage handling system will come online by the end of 2022." We'll see. As stated, T5 will add 10 gates (including two more Group 6, which I believe can each accommodate two narrowbodies). Concessions: 15 "new concessions brands"; who and where, no info because (as many of us have been complaining) there's only three sketches of the interior -- which are utterly inadequate (viewable at https://www.muller2.com/projects#ohare-airport-terminal-5-expansion) and the City has never been forthcoming about concessions (see the recent MDW concession scandal).

And there will not be any connection between T5 and the core -- not, at least, without major, major work (and $$). There is far too much physical "stuff" between the two (someone posted what all that stuff is, but I can't find it) to allow for direct connection, unless it's by shuttle bus (obviously). But, as mentioned above, it should be rarely needed, given the reconfiguration into alliances. You'll only need to do it it doing an unusual transfer (like DL to AA) or if you arrive on an unaffiliated int'l carrier. That, at least, is "the plan" of ORD21 (although the City can reallocate and UA/AA get to decide who joins them at OGT). It's highly unlikely the airlines will ever pony up for the expense of airside connection. It's not our choice, and it's not part of the TAP.
 
chidino
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:49 pm

Two new photos of MDW bridge work:

Image
Image
 
muralir
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 3:44 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 6:11 pm

jcwr56 wrote:
muralir wrote:
I don't think there are any plans for an airside connection. But long term, the need for such will be much less than now. T5 is scheduled to be for SkyTeam and non-aligned international airlines. *A and OneWorld will be in the new global terminal. So the number of inter-terminal connections will be a lot less than now. Besides, I don't see how a connection is physically possible aside from a tunnel...

(That said, there has been a bus connection airside for AA passengers connecting to BA. They should just make the bus be a regular airside shuttle from the different terminals to T5. Easy, cheap, and nearly as effective as a physical connection).


There's been a Terminal Transfer Bus for almost a year now for people flowing back from T5 to Terminals 1 and 3. It departs from M1 with 4 stops. The buses that are currently being used will be shifted over for Hardstand operations and a smaller more appropriate passenger bus will be used. The CDA added 2 additional screening lanes on the far east of the check in hall to facilitate screening for these passengers.

With the expansion, there will be a full sized proper bus gate just below M7 area, this will continue to allow for transfers between T5 and the OGT core.

Thanks for the info! I haven't connected from t5 in a while :) does the bus allow transfers *to* T5? IMHO a bus *from* T5 isn't as useful because you need to clear customs and be rescreened anyway. So the APM is not much more of a hassle. But domestic pax flying into T1/3 on their way to an intl connection in T5 would benefit greatly from not having to reclear security.

Either way I think the airport is doing the right thing. No need for a budget busting tunnel for the few passengers who are not traveling an alliance affiliated carrier.

That said, I do agree that not building a Metra connection when it stops just a block away from the CONRAC is dumb. :) All they need is a heated enclosure, with maybe a moving walkway. Fortunately, it won't be too difficult to add if Metra increases service on that line.
 
muralir
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 3:44 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 6:29 pm

AAplat4life wrote:
Particularly for T3, and to a lesser extent T1, the new T2 design looks difficult for connecting passengers. Imagine going from T-1 B, or T-3 L or the far ends of K or L to the main building in T2 (or the underground to get to one of the satellites). It’s going to be a long journey on foot. And there will still be passengers that will need to connect to T5, albeit to a lesser degree once alliance partners are consolidated in T2. The failure of the design to better integrate passengers to the other terminals is a disappointment.


I agree, it will be a walk, but not because of the T2 design. But because the new satellite concourses are so big! They're basically doubling the length of concourse C which is already quite long. Right now, it's not a massive walk from K/L to the core of T3, and from there it's pretty quick to walk to T2. I don't think the new terminal will be much worse.

But C is already quite long and will be longer with the new satellites. I'm hoping they copy DTW and add a train in the concourse itself to help :) I really like the DTW setup: large, spacious gates, a wide walkway that isn't cramped with kiosks and stuff, and a train inside to help with connections. It's actually my favorite US airport in terms of design.
 
chicawgo
Posts: 443
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:09 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:01 pm

muralir wrote:
jcwr56 wrote:
muralir wrote:
I don't think there are any plans for an airside connection. But long term, the need for such will be much less than now. T5 is scheduled to be for SkyTeam and non-aligned international airlines. *A and OneWorld will be in the new global terminal. So the number of inter-terminal connections will be a lot less than now. Besides, I don't see how a connection is physically possible aside from a tunnel...

(That said, there has been a bus connection airside for AA passengers connecting to BA. They should just make the bus be a regular airside shuttle from the different terminals to T5. Easy, cheap, and nearly as effective as a physical connection).


There's been a Terminal Transfer Bus for almost a year now for people flowing back from T5 to Terminals 1 and 3. It departs from M1 with 4 stops. The buses that are currently being used will be shifted over for Hardstand operations and a smaller more appropriate passenger bus will be used. The CDA added 2 additional screening lanes on the far east of the check in hall to facilitate screening for these passengers.

With the expansion, there will be a full sized proper bus gate just below M7 area, this will continue to allow for transfers between T5 and the OGT core.

Thanks for the info! I haven't connected from t5 in a while :) does the bus allow transfers *to* T5? IMHO a bus *from* T5 isn't as useful because you need to clear customs and be rescreened anyway. So the APM is not much more of a hassle. But domestic pax flying into T1/3 on their way to an intl connection in T5 would benefit greatly from not having to reclear security.

Either way I think the airport is doing the right thing. No need for a budget busting tunnel for the few passengers who are not traveling an alliance affiliated carrier.

That said, I do agree that not building a Metra connection when it stops just a block away from the CONRAC is dumb. :) All they need is a heated enclosure, with maybe a moving walkway. Fortunately, it won't be too difficult to add if Metra increases service on that line.


A shuttle from core to T5 was actually the initial goal of this and has existed for several years now. It originally was just a few airlines (BA and QR) then AA going from G and K. Then they added L. And now there's a T1 connection as UA has joined. As someone else mentioned, this is the real time saver. Coming back from T5 really doesn't save much because you still have to go through security. And you have to go down to tarmac level, take the bus, then shlep back up the steps. And bus only runs every 20 minutes. So once ATS is finished, that will likely be faster.
 
jcwr56
Posts: 979
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:36 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:14 pm

chicawgo wrote:
muralir wrote:
jcwr56 wrote:

There's been a Terminal Transfer Bus for almost a year now for people flowing back from T5 to Terminals 1 and 3. It departs from M1 with 4 stops. The buses that are currently being used will be shifted over for Hardstand operations and a smaller more appropriate passenger bus will be used. The CDA added 2 additional screening lanes on the far east of the check in hall to facilitate screening for these passengers.

With the expansion, there will be a full sized proper bus gate just below M7 area, this will continue to allow for transfers between T5 and the OGT core.

Thanks for the info! I haven't connected from t5 in a while :) does the bus allow transfers *to* T5? IMHO a bus *from* T5 isn't as useful because you need to clear customs and be rescreened anyway. So the APM is not much more of a hassle. But domestic pax flying into T1/3 on their way to an intl connection in T5 would benefit greatly from not having to reclear security.

Either way I think the airport is doing the right thing. No need for a budget busting tunnel for the few passengers who are not traveling an alliance affiliated carrier.

That said, I do agree that not building a Metra connection when it stops just a block away from the CONRAC is dumb. :) All they need is a heated enclosure, with maybe a moving walkway. Fortunately, it won't be too difficult to add if Metra increases service on that line.


A shuttle from core to T5 was actually the initial goal of this and has existed for several years now. It originally was just a few airlines (BA and QR) then AA going from G and K. Then they added L. And now there's a T1 connection as UA has joined. As someone else mentioned, this is the real time saver. Coming back from T5 really doesn't save much because you still have to go through security. And you have to go down to tarmac level, take the bus, then shlep back up the steps. And bus only runs every 20 minutes. So once ATS is finished, that will likely be faster.


With the new buses planned it will be far less than every 20 minutes. I'm hearing they were going to double the amount.
 
chicawgo
Posts: 443
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:09 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:23 pm

jcwr56 wrote:
chicawgo wrote:
muralir wrote:
Thanks for the info! I haven't connected from t5 in a while :) does the bus allow transfers *to* T5? IMHO a bus *from* T5 isn't as useful because you need to clear customs and be rescreened anyway. So the APM is not much more of a hassle. But domestic pax flying into T1/3 on their way to an intl connection in T5 would benefit greatly from not having to reclear security.

Either way I think the airport is doing the right thing. No need for a budget busting tunnel for the few passengers who are not traveling an alliance affiliated carrier.

That said, I do agree that not building a Metra connection when it stops just a block away from the CONRAC is dumb. :) All they need is a heated enclosure, with maybe a moving walkway. Fortunately, it won't be too difficult to add if Metra increases service on that line.


A shuttle from core to T5 was actually the initial goal of this and has existed for several years now. It originally was just a few airlines (BA and QR) then AA going from G and K. Then they added L. And now there's a T1 connection as UA has joined. As someone else mentioned, this is the real time saver. Coming back from T5 really doesn't save much because you still have to go through security. And you have to go down to tarmac level, take the bus, then shlep back up the steps. And bus only runs every 20 minutes. So once ATS is finished, that will likely be faster.


With the new buses planned it will be far less than every 20 minutes. I'm hearing they were going to double the amount.


Interesting! I'm surprised they would increase service though with the ATS coming back.
 
Crosswind787
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:50 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:55 pm

It seems like with the ATS out of service the airside bus would be the current preferred way to transfer since the landside bus system is a complete train wreck. Glad to hear the airside bus will stick around. If youre flying out of T5 there are many more dining and shopping options in the terminal core. Be great to jump on the airside bus, grab some food, then jump back on the airside bus and make it back to T5 in time for your flight, all without having to go through security again.
 
HanCholo
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:12 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:15 am

kordcj wrote:
jplatts wrote:
WN adding MDW-ELP nonstop service is a possibility once WN has more planes in its fleet with ELP being one of the top destinations traveled to from MDW that isn't currently served nonstop from MDW.

The PDEW of MDW-ELP in Q3 2019 was 39 passengers/day, which is only slightly lower than the PDEW of MDW-TUS in Q3 2019, which was only 41 passengers/day.

WN had also load factors of 91.4% on MDW-TUS nonstop service in Q3 2019, and over 70% of the passengers on MDW-TUS nonstop flights were connecting to other destinations through MDW in Q3 2019.

WN can likely make MDW-ELP nonstop service work since
(a) WN has over 45% market share at ELP vs. 27% market share at TUS,
(b) WN has a FF base in both the MDW and ELP markets to support MDW-ELP nonstop service,
(c) WN would be able to offer connections to additional markets from ELP if it adds MDW-ELP nonstop service, and
(d) the PDEW's on MDW-ELP would likely be higher than that of MDW-TUS if WN adds daily nonstop service to ELP from MDW with the PDEW's of MDW-ELP being almost as high as that of MDW-TUS.


It’ll be interesting to see if WN can get this to work. Since last year F9 has dropped ELP-ORD, UA has cut its operation to 1/day on a CR7, and AA scaled back from 2 738s to an E170 & CR7. If WN does add something to MDW, me thinks ELP will lose a frequency somewhere else. Would be nice to not have connect thru DAL/HOU/AUS to get to the NE.


F9 made ELP-ORD seasonal. The flights are available. It didn't drop the route luckily. AA and UA equipment varies. They'll go mainline then switch to a regional and vice versa. There's many folks who fly out of ELP that are fiercely loyal to WN. One lady mentioned to me her frustration why ELP had no non-stops to Chicago. I incredulously remarked UA and AA have had them for years. She then mentioned she meant on WN. Believe it or not some folks don't even give a fleeting thought on the possibility of flying on another airline besides WN. I see ELP-MDW succeeding, but I could be wrong.
 
chidino
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:43 pm

yeogeo wrote:

For the first time SAS operated a A-350 on ORD-CPH yesterday (the 28th) and she will be a regular visitor for the time being:

SASViking wrote:
The A350 is only scheduled on CPH-ORD from 28 January to 07 June on 6 out of 7 weekly flights. The 7th weekly will be on A340. From 08 June the A350 will be replaced by A330 again on 6 out of 7 weekly flights. The 7th will remain A340.


Iberia operate theirs seasonally ORD-MAD and Lufthansa somewhat regularly on ORD-MUC, so still not an aircraft that's too common a sight on the field.


I didn't realize that was SAS' first ever A350 flight (anywhere). Very cool.
 
maxkd
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:36 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:58 pm

O'hare now 1 of 7 U.S. airports Still Accepting Flights from China During Coronavirus Outbreak:

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2020/02/02 ... rom-china/
 
sircygnus
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:46 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:12 am

chidino wrote:
yeogeo wrote:

For the first time SAS operated a A-350 on ORD-CPH yesterday (the 28th) and she will be a regular visitor for the time being:

SASViking wrote:
The A350 is only scheduled on CPH-ORD from 28 January to 07 June on 6 out of 7 weekly flights. The 7th weekly will be on A340. From 08 June the A350 will be replaced by A330 again on 6 out of 7 weekly flights. The 7th will remain A340.


Iberia operate theirs seasonally ORD-MAD and Lufthansa somewhat regularly on ORD-MUC, so still not an aircraft that's too common a sight on the field.


I didn't realize that was SAS' first ever A350 flight (anywhere). Very cool.


The more I see the new SAS livery the more I like it. So classy
 
ckfred
Posts: 5188
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:21 pm

I dropped off my wife at ORD this morning. As I was heading east on I-190, I saw a new ATS train heading south, over I-190, towards the terminals. It appeared to be empty. My assumption is that the track work and other renovations are far enough along that they can start testing the new ATS cars.

I've not seen anything in the papers or on the news with a return-to-service date for the ATS, but clearly the end of the bus service to shuttle passengers between the terminals and the rental car garage and other economy parking lots is in sight.

Most schools in the Chicago area have their spring breaks the last week of March. I would like to think that the City and the contractors are trying to reopen the ATS by spring break, when ORD gets far busier than normal.
 
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United787
Posts: 2941
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 12:20 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:26 pm

ckfred wrote:
My assumption is that the track work and other renovations are far enough along that they can start testing the new ATS cars.


I may be wrong but I thought the physical construction was completed in the early Fall and that testing began back then and that is when the problems were discovered... with the "electrical current delivery system".

"“a mechanical issue during on-track testing has made meeting (that November goal) all but impossible.... The precise problem still being dealt with involves a mechanism that directs the electrical current needed for rails cars to operate. Crews are said to be working to retrofit the “collector shoe” on each new rail car."

If there was a pause in the testing for the retrofit and they have resumed testing post retrofit, that would be a good sign. Not sure though.

It also appears as though there were some contractual issues. Hopefully testing suggests that issue being resolved as well. Crossing my fingers.

Source:
https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... again.html
 
chicawgo
Posts: 443
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:09 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:31 pm

They’ve definitely been testing for several months now. I’ve seen them moving around frequently.
 
gabik001
Posts: 468
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:16 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:30 pm

Looking for a scheduled inbound flights to ORD for today's afternoon seems interesting. More that 30% of flights already cancelled propably due to snow storm forecast. Will see what will happen.
Canon 50D gripped + Canon 70D + 17-40 L + 24-105 L IS + 50 f/1.8 STM + 100-400L IS USM + Sigma 150-600 S
 
kd9gy
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 4:18 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:04 pm

At O"hare right now. Solid overcast, and a few snow flurries. Terminal 1 (UA) ops appear normal and pretty much everything is showing normal. A couple RJ's are either delayed or cancelled...but that's pretty much every day.
 
ORDfan
Posts: 658
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:02 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:36 am

kd9gy wrote:
At O"hare right now. Solid overcast, and a few snow flurries. Terminal 1 (UA) ops appear normal and pretty much everything is showing normal. A couple RJ's are either delayed or cancelled...but that's pretty much every day.


Flew out this afternoon on 1989 to IAH with no issues whatsoever. Screens at the gates were saying inbound flights were experiencing delays, but looks like outbound was mostly okay if planes were available.

Also flew out to Den last Thursday morning (with heavy snows overnight and early morning), also with no issue. Airfield ops and decicing did a great job, and I feel like they never get their due. Hats off to them.

Interestingly enough, on the return trip from Den last Friday, we have waited on hour and half at the deice pad; I'm starting to think that this might not be a better idea than doing it at the gate. Today, the captain on 1989 even said that it's better to deice at the gates because it saves time rather than taxing to the deice pads, funny enough.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:38 pm

Been saving up some stuff (been away).

Tonight (12th) another UA 789 (N29975) on the O'Hare field fresh from Charleston.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n29975


Here she is in CHS on Jan 20^^

Also 787: United has scheduled another -8 route: ORD to SFO from the 4th of June, twice daily.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-20200207
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:52 pm



Amid a sea of notifications on Airline Route of reduced service to/from China and Hong Kong, noticed Cathay Pacific schedules at O'Hare are to be affected: "Hong Kong – Chicago O’Hare eff 17FEB20 Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly"

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-20200212
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:31 am

Chicago Business Journal's Lazare has an interesting article on the upcoming Qantas ORD<>Brisbane flight:

Brisbane ..."has been preparing the past couple of years to welcome a new influx of visitors from Chicago and beyond. BNE was the country’s fastest-growing airport in 2019, with 25 million passengers transiting through the airport last year... Once Chicagoans begin to learn more about the Brisbane area, many will opt to remain in the city itself, which has more than 300 days of sunshine a year, or travel 20 minutes by car to the Pacific coast." ...and the "major sun and surf mecca," Australia's Gold Coast.

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... UT09In0%3D

They've recently completed a new runway:
Image

https://www.bne.com.au/blog/behind-scen ... -checklist
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:32 am

Incidentally , the the route still shows as needing government approval but is now offered for sale, with service starting on the 15th of April.

Image
 
ORD2010
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:46 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:34 am

yeogeo wrote:


Amid a sea of notifications on Airline Route of reduced service to/from China and Hong Kong, noticed Cathay Pacific schedules at O'Hare are to be affected: "Hong Kong – Chicago O’Hare eff 17FEB20 Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly"

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-20200212


truly a shame, I hope this is really only due to the coronavirus and we will see it resume daily soon, from a peak of 3xs daily some days a week, to now only 5x weekly, it has really changed.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:55 am

If I were Jewish I'd be oye-veying to myself about this article, again by Lazare in the CBJ; Its as light in the content department as "Barbe de Papa* :old:, but can't be eaten.

"O'Hare automated transit system could be back in April"
https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... J3Mnc9PSJ9

"Sources close to the developments at the airport said that even though that April date could be when the ATS service resumes, the history of delays with the project suggests nothing should be seen as writ in stone when it comes to the return of the people mover ...Asked if the people mover could be up and running again in April, a spokeswoman for the Chicago Department of Aviation would neither confirm nor deny."

*cotton candy, for you non-francophiles.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:03 am

Remember Air Italy proposing O'Hare> Milan flights?
:thumbsdown: ...going to have to find another carrier:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/air-italy ... 2020-02-12
 
gabik001
Posts: 468
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:16 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:03 am

yeogeo wrote:
Been saving up some stuff (been away).

Tonight (12th) another UA 789 (N29975) on the O'Hare field fresh from Charleston.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n29975


Here she is in CHS on Jan 20^^

Also 787: United has scheduled another -8 route: ORD to SFO from the 4th of June, twice daily.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-20200207

She was sitting few days at ORD and yesterday she reaturned from Paine Field from one day trip.
Canon 50D gripped + Canon 70D + 17-40 L + 24-105 L IS + 50 f/1.8 STM + 100-400L IS USM + Sigma 150-600 S
 
windycity613
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:17 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:21 am

Parking rates @ ORD increased January 1. https://www.flychicago.com/ohare/tofrom ... onomy.aspx Lowest day rate $15
Where do you park near ORD?
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:01 am

OAG sent me a little promotional material today and included were these charts:

Image

O'Hare is holding its own or doing better than peers in this department (seat capacity), although DFW, ICN, and CAN (for now) are killing it. Major declines already (through Jan '20) at PEK and PVG.
 
gabik001
Posts: 468
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:16 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:57 am

windycity613 wrote:
Parking rates @ ORD increased January 1. https://www.flychicago.com/ohare/tofrom ... onomy.aspx Lowest day rate $15
Where do you park near ORD?

Usually at T5 hourly parking when picking up someone. When flying out of ORD I am not parking because I am living 10 min drive from ORD so using rideshare/family or public trasportation (Pace line 250) to get to ORD.
Sometimes I am using big parking lot at T1/T2/T3 (6 story) to get a pictures from the top level but not longer than an hour so fee is $2.
Canon 50D gripped + Canon 70D + 17-40 L + 24-105 L IS + 50 f/1.8 STM + 100-400L IS USM + Sigma 150-600 S
 
kbmiflyer
Posts: 295
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:47 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:52 pm

windycity613 wrote:
Parking rates @ ORD increased January 1. https://www.flychicago.com/ohare/tofrom ... onomy.aspx Lowest day rate $15
Where do you park near ORD?


I use PreFlight, they are just over $10 a day with a reservation. Bit of a ride to the airport but frequent bus service

https://www.preflightairportparking.com ... parking/11

You can often find deals for $10 or $11 a day on spothero at the nearby hotels with a free hotel shuttle. One of the best deals is $10 a day parking at the Rosemont Blue Line station, although you do have to pay for CTA fare to and from the station.
 
jplatts
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:20 pm

There is an article in Crain's Chicago Business titled "Midway is far too reliant on Southwest Airlines", which can be found at https://www.chicagobusiness.com/joe-cahill-business/midway-far-too-reliant-southwest-airlines.

While WN will not go belly up anytime soon and while WN will likely continue to have a significant presence at MDW, I agree that there should be more non-WN domestic service at MDW beyond the existing DL service out of MDW and the already announced G4 service out of MDW.

There are also still some more domestic adds that could be made by WN at MDW, including the return of MDW-BOI/GSP/LIT/GEG/TUL nonstop service and the addition of MDW-ELP/LGB/RIC nonstop service.

While DL already serves ATL, DTW, and MSP nonstop from MDW, DL could add MDW-LGA and MDW-SLC nonstop service.

AS adding MDW-SEA nonstop service is a possibility with AS already serving SEA nonstop from some other secondary airports such as BUR, DAL, OAK, ONT, and SNA.

G4 could also add more routes out of MDW such as MDW-CHS, MDW-SFB, MDW-PSP, MDW-AZA, MDW-PVU, and MDW-SRQ.
 
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piedmontf284000
Posts: 468
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:41 am

jplatts wrote:
There is an article in Crain's Chicago Business titled "Midway is far too reliant on Southwest Airlines", which can be found at https://www.chicagobusiness.com/joe-cahill-business/midway-far-too-reliant-southwest-airlines.



The city should be beyond grateful to WN. They single handily saved that airport from demolition. After Midway went kaput and then ATA folded, WN stepped up and created a superior fortress with 66 destinations and over 200 daily flights. Their presence allowed the airport to become a good alternative to ORD and made Peotone a running joke. Their presence created thousands of jobs, billions in tax revenue for the city coffers, and has given Chicagoan's vast competition that has allowed for ultra low fares. South side residents have benefited tremendously by having an airport so close in proximity to their homes and it is still the closet airport to the downtown area. Reliance is not the word that should be used, instead it should gratitude/appreciation/loyalty.
 
midway7
Posts: 291
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:14 am

piedmontf284000 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
There is an article in Crain's Chicago Business titled "Midway is far too reliant on Southwest Airlines", which can be found at https://www.chicagobusiness.com/joe-cahill-business/midway-far-too-reliant-southwest-airlines.



The city should be beyond grateful to WN. They single handily saved that airport from demolition. After Midway went kaput and then ATA folded, WN stepped up and created a superior fortress with 66 destinations and over 200 daily flights. Their presence allowed the airport to become a good alternative to ORD and made Peotone a running joke. Their presence created thousands of jobs, billions in tax revenue for the city coffers, and has given Chicagoan's vast competition that has allowed for ultra low fares. South side residents have benefited tremendously by having an airport so close in proximity to their homes and it is still the closet airport to the downtown area. Reliance is not the word that should be used, instead it should gratitude/appreciation/loyalty.



Could not agree more! The article is very off base. Southwest jumped in twice, to save MDW once a competing airline was in big trouble. In the case of Midway I, they literally jumped to it overnight. I cannot image the City has any issues with Southwest. The airline has been a great partner to The City of Chicago and the growth of Midway Airport.
 
chidino
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:13 am

I love column writers (any architecture critics come to mind?) who try to deal with the real world in an idealized way. If you were starting clean-sheet, would you have WN so dominant? Now that's a question. But questioning it now ignores leases, investments, past actions (in good faith), and the lot. The effects WN has had have been spoken to above very well. I'll just pose a question: exactly how are we poorly served by WN/UA/AA dominance? Who says there can't be healthy competition among three of the world's largest carriers? You can't complain about fares -- we're consistently rated as one of the most competitive markets in the nation. What markets remain unserved? (And if they do, it isn't for lack of trying. There's only so many gates, slots, and planes, esp with MAX issue. And there's the issue of some markets just not having the pax count the carriers need.) The world at our doorstep, again with three of the US four hubbing* here, and 10 or 20 flights a day from some ULCC is going to change the aviation landscape? Please look around and consider... any other city in the country. I think we've got it better than anyone else.

* I know WN doesn't hub, but go with me here.
 
jplatts
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:45 pm

chidino wrote:
But questioning it now ignores leases, investments, past actions (in good faith), and the lot. The effects WN has had have been spoken to above very well. I'll just pose a question: exactly how are we poorly served by WN/UA/AA dominance? Who says there can't be healthy competition among three of the world's largest carriers? You can't complain about fares -- we're consistently rated as one of the most competitive markets in the nation. What markets remain unserved?


I agree that there can be healthy competition between WN, AA, and UA in the Chicago market, and all of the WN nonstop routes out of MDW have nonstop competition out of ORD on AA or UA.

DL, F9, NK, B6, and SY also all already operate nonstop routes out of ORD that compete against WN nonstop routes out of MDW, and DL also already operates MDW-ATL/DTW/MSP nonstop service in addition to WN.

I had also previously mentioned that there are some existing WN destinations not currently served nonstop from MDW that could be served nonstop out of MDW on WN, including BOI, ELP, GSP, RIC, GEG, and TUL.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:28 pm

Along with other UA hub to China flights, United has extended the cancellation of the two from ORD.

"Following service now cancelled until 23APR20:
Chicago O’Hare – Beijing Capital 1 daily
Chicago O’Hare – Shanghai Pu Dong 1 daily"

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-20200215
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:24 pm



Ethiopian is scheduling daily service next summer. Can't remember this ever being the case. Am I wrong?

"ET ADD-ORD JUN 0.7>1.0[0.7] JUL 0.7>1.0[0.7] AUG 0.7>1.0[0.7]"

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1441257
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:47 pm

Peotone simmers in Illinois politics

Governor Pritzker is getting a little heat for the inclusion in the budget $205.5 million for road improvements & property acquisition adjacent to the Peotone airport site.
Last October, as Greg Hinz in Crains put it: "Two hundred million bucks is a lot to spend to line up a few votes somewhere." :shock:

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg-hi ... million-it

Rep Sosnowski argues in the Rockford Register Star that now that RFD is such a success, and O'Hare is investing in itself, this [200 million] was money better spent elsewhere. He also brings up a cost of the acquisition:
"DOT pays Will County year after year to make up for the lost property tax revenue the county would be receiving if this land was privately owned and cultivated... From FY 2005 thru FY 2019, the Illinois Department of Transportation has paid Will County approximately $1.6 million for lost revenue due to acquiring land for the South Suburban Airport."

https://www.rrstar.com/opinion/20200216 ... ne-airport
 
ILikeTrains
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:18 am

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:18 pm

Whats the point of the Peotone Airport again? Ive never understood all the hoopla over decades of living here.

Also is MDW slot-constrained at all?
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 915
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:22 pm

ILikeTrains wrote:
Whats the point of the Peotone Airport again? Ive never understood all the hoopla over decades of living here.

Also is MDW slot-constrained at all?


There isn’t any at this point. Peotone was conceived decades ago and was pursued in earnest starting in the late 1990s/early 2000s as a way to relieve ORD. Arguably, it is a big reason needed improvements at ORD didn’t materialize for some time.

But with the expansion of ORD and airline consolidation, Peotone is no longer needed. It also isn’t needed for cargo since you have Rockford and Gary/Chicago as easier alternatives (not to mention ORD’s not too shabby cargo operation).
 
sircygnus
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:46 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:39 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
ILikeTrains wrote:
Whats the point of the Peotone Airport again? Ive never understood all the hoopla over decades of living here.

Also is MDW slot-constrained at all?


There isn’t any at this point. Peotone was conceived decades ago and was pursued in earnest starting in the late 1990s/early 2000s as a way to relieve ORD. Arguably, it is a big reason needed improvements at ORD didn’t materialize for some time.

But with the expansion of ORD and airline consolidation, Peotone is no longer needed. It also isn’t needed for cargo since you have Rockford and Gary/Chicago as easier alternatives (not to mention ORD’s not too shabby cargo operation).


This exactly, in other words it is the perfect example of patronage/mismanagement in state politics
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