Welcome to San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020. Please continue to add your comments below

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viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411015

Starting off 2020 with some good news, while booking flights, I just realized American will re-start JFK service some time in January, As I am currently booked on a flight on the 18th. The schedule will be the following.
AA2458 departs SAN at 7:25AM, arriving at JFK at 15:43PM.

That JFK-SAN flights last like a month, goes away for a while after that and doesn't come back until second half of April. And since AA doesn't firm up schedule until 4 months out, it's really hard to say if that will stick around. It's really hard to understand what they are doing here.

itripreport wrote:

Starting off 2020 with some good news, while booking flights, I just realized American will re-start JFK service some time in January, As I am currently booked on a flight on the 18th. The schedule will be the following.
AA2458 departs SAN at 7:25AM, arriving at JFK at 15:43PM.

However, according to a recent OAG thread, March 2020 will see "0" flights SAN-JFK again, with perhaps some limited service returning in April... I'm not counting on it ever returning to year-round daily service status. And I find that very disturbing. (But not a particular surprise judging by AA's moves in SAN in the last few years...)

And furthermore, if the MAX groundings ARE the reason (and I don't particularly buy that excuse anymore), that tells me that AA has given up on the route anyway.

I just hope AS will manage at some point to grab a 737 for the route, rather than putting almost every Boeing they own on additional SEA routes!

Happy New Year everybody!

bb

itripreport wrote:

Starting off 2020 with some good news, while booking flights, I just realized American will re-start JFK service some time in January, As I am currently booked on a flight on the 18th. The schedule will be the following.
AA2458 departs SAN at 7:25AM, arriving at JFK at 15:43PM.

It’s only for the period Jan 17 through Feb 12. And then it is gone until April 17 (so far). Have no idea what their strategy is in this market: they are restarting it in the dead of winter and then dropping it again just before the heavy Presidents Day weekend travel and missing spring break entirely...

Sure wish this wasn't so tough each year for the moderators, having to manually lock all the duplicate threads. I got the honor of starting 2019's, but as long as there is a thread going, the originator doesn't matter, so no worries or issues from me.

Maybe a designated and announced starting time for the new year's threads could be given by the moderators? I mention this only to lesson your workload.

https://www.10best.com/awards/travel/be ... san-diego/

I know, I am TOTALLY biased in this completely unscientific pool, but I love our airport!!

Looking forward to discussing new service - especially international - and all the good things coming our way for our tiny but efficient airport.

Happy flying to all!

Someone posted pictures dated Christmas Eve of demolition work being done for the new international "in-transit" terminal at TIJ. Note the Hainan Airlines dreamliner in the background. The building should be ready by fall of 2022.

The pictures are towards the bottom of this webpage:
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthre ... 7&page=236

I thought I'd list what air service positives currently appear headed for SAN in 2020 (as of Dec 31, 2019.) Please feel free to add to this summary those things I've missed:

Major additions:
>AS adds service to RDM & SBP on Jan 7 - daily, EMJ, year-round I expect;
>WN adds nonstops to HNL & OGG on Apr 20 & 14 respectively - daily and year-round I assume;
>WO (Swoop) adds service to YEG on May 8 - multiple weekly flights into Oct;
>TS (Air Transat) begins the first nonstop service to YUL on Jun 25 - multiple weekly flights thru Oct.

Service increases (on existing routes):
>AS goes Double-Daily -- or greater -- on these routes in 2020 - some permanently, while some will undoubtedly by seasonal: AUS, BOI, BOS, FAT (4X Dly), OGG,
SFO (8X Dly), SJC (6X Dly), STS, SEA (9X Dly)! In most of these cases, the capacity offered by AS in 2020 will be the most ever offered on the routes. In addition, MCO service goes Dly for the first time and BWI service does return for the summer. Despite a bunch of axed routes from SAN in late '19 & early '20, I feel that AS is keeping on an upward growth rate here.
>B6 adds frequencies to BOS and JFK -- at their peak in 2020, Blue will be offering 8 daily departures out of SAN! This is wonderful to see.
>WN, well, it's really hard to tell since they continually alter their schedules due to the MAX groundings but most of their seasonal (summer) routes seem to be returning.

And let's not forget:
>BA's Speedbird will remain as a 744 for the entire year (dare I say... permanently?)

bb

[quote="vedatil4"]Someone posted pictures dated Christmas Eve of demolition work being done for the new international "in-transit" terminal at TIJ. Note the Hainan Airlines dreamliner in the background. The building should be ready by fall of 2022.

Here are the pictures:

jplatts wrote:

SANFan wrote:

Major additions:
WN adds nonstops to HNL & OGG on Apr 20 & 14 respectively - daily and year-round I assume;

Service increases (on existing routes):
>WN, well, it's really hard to tell since they continually alter their schedules due to the MAX groundings but most of their seasonal (summer) routes seem to be returning.

WN could add SAN-FLL nonstop service in order to defend against AS or NK possibly adding SAN-FLL nonstop service. WN also has a customer base in both the Miami/Fort Lauderdale and San Diego markets to support SAN-FLL nonstop service on WN. WN also has more market share on domestic air travel in the MIA/FLL market than AS, G4, F9, B6, or SY, and WN also had more market share on domestic air travel in the MIA/FLL market than NK did until very recently.

Other nonstop routes that could be added by WN out of SAN once WN has more planes in its fleet include SAN-CLE, SAN-CMH, SAN-BDL, SAN-JAX, SAN-KOA, SAN-LIH, SAN-PIT, and SAN-RDU.

Does WN use 73Gs on all of their transcon routes or are some operated with 738s?

blacksoviet wrote:

Does WN use 73Gs on all of their transcon routes or are some operated with 738s?

They use the 738 on some transcon routes. SAN-BWI for example.

WN732 wrote:

I noticed that AS is scheduled to switch some of their SAN-AUS flights to E175. It also appears to be flown by Horizon, while some others are flown by SkyWest. I didn't really check to see when that starts but I saw it when looking to book AUS-SAN-FAT in early April. I wish they would throw more 737's at AUS instead of the ex VX Airbus'.

Edit: They are all going to E175 instead of the A319 that is normally used now.

Yes, AS is going daily-double (EMJs) effective March 19. Keep in mind, this will actually triple the number of F/C seats in the market -- 12 x 2 = 24 F seats/day on the EMJs vs. 8 F seats/day on the single Airbus flight -- in addition to giving AS travelers a choice of times, (sort of) allowing 1-day trips in both directions! I expect this change will be permanent, not just a summer increase in service..

Even though WN is holding pretty much at 3x daily r/t between SAN and AUS, and F9 also flies the route, those are all coach seats. I have a feeling in this market, F/C prolly goes out pretty full on AS! I think this is a wise decision by AS; I would imagine eventually we will see mainline return to SAN-AUS.

One final point: remember that one of those SAN-AUS r/t on WN goes on to DCA providing daily direct r/t service between SAN and DCA - perhaps the only same-airline r/t between SDIA and Reagan Airport! Until the day SAN is finally awarded nonstop service in the market, WN prolly offers the best service in the market.

bb

vedatil4 wrote:

Someone posted pictures dated Christmas Eve of demolition work being done for the new international "in-transit" terminal at TIJ. Note the Hainan Airlines dreamliner in the background. The building should be ready by fall of 2022.

The pictures are towards the bottom of this webpage:
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthre ... 7&page=236

I've studied this rendering of the project at Tijuana airport very, very carefully: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWw3dB9xvnc (disclosure: I work in the architecture and civil engineering fields.)

I'm convinced international passengers using CBX will have a way to bypass Mexican customs and immigration when walking to or from the international gates located on the east side of hall B through an "in-transit" area. That's all good news for San Diegans wanting to catch flights to Asia, Europe, or Central America (perhaps to the US someday on Volaris? separate thread explored this possibility.)

Pause the video and focus on signage at around the 50second mark for northbound passengers and the 1min 58sec mark for southbound passengers . At those points passengers get to choose not to go through Mexican immigration and customs.

further breakdown:
If a rare passenger arriving from China, let's say, is headed to TJ, the immigration and customs for them will be on the first floor. Then they enter an arrivals foyer where they can walk outside to catch a taxi.

If a passenger arriving from China is connecting to a destination in Mexico, they'll go through immigration, customs, and airline check-in on a second floor above the taxi pickup area. Then they'll go back downstairs to the arrivals foyer, go through airport security, then enter a long corridor heading to the west side of hall B and hall A where they can catch Mexico-bound flights.

I think that same passenger arriving from China will be able to stay in the "in-transit" area to catch a connecting international flight without going through Mexican immigration and customs. There appears to be a waiting area on the left side before the escalator down to the baggage claim area and in front of the two international gates. (not sure on this one but would make sense)

I think southbound domestic flight passengers using CBX will first go into the same international "in-transit" area, then the same immigration, customs, and airline check-in on the second floor then to security on the first floor as passengers arriving from China connecting to Mexico flights.

What remains a little unclear is how northbound domestic flight passengers using CBX will reach the bridge. I think it'll be through an area just north of the international baggage pickup shown in the video.

I hope this information is helpful. Maybe others can also watch the video carefully and point out where this analysis is incorrect.

The passenger types I think need to be considered while watching the video are:

-CBX southbound for international flight
-CBX northbound from international flight (this is when I want to bypass Mexican immigration and customs)

-CBX southbound for domestic flight
-CBX northbound from domestic flight

-CBX staying in TJ for 24 hours first before domestic or international flight (rare occurrence)

-arriving Chinese connecting to a domestic flight
-arriving Chinese connecting to an international flight

-Chinese arriving to stay in TJ (very rare occurrence) (note: I use the terms China or Chinese only because Hainan already flies to TJ.)

I am surprised the American government is allowing TIJ to become a binational airport. This is wonderful news. TIJ is going to be the first binational airport terminal in North America. I think they are eventually going to need to expand the terminal to add more widebody gates connected to the “American FIS”. I think the smartest thing to do would be to simply build a new concourse.

Think about the possibilities this will open up. Lindbergh Field will be forced to compete against TIJ to attract new Asian and European Airlines. Could we even see a Qantas Dreamliner parked at TIJ one day? What about an Air France A340-300 making a fuel stop on its way to PPT?

The possibilities are endless.

blacksoviet wrote:

I am surprised the American government is allowing TIJ to become a binational airport. This is wonderful news. TIJ is going to be the first binational airport terminal in North America. I think they are eventually going to need to expand the terminal to add more widebody gates connected to the “American FIS”. I think the smartest thing to do would be to simply build a new concourse.

Think about the possibilities this will open up. Lindbergh Field will be forced to compete against TIJ to attract new Asian and European Airlines. Could we even see a Qantas Dreamliner parked at TIJ one day? What about an Air France A340-300 making a fuel stop on its way to PPT?

The possibilities are endless.

TJ airport management showed a future building (in light blue) connected by a long hallway from the east side of the building under construction right now (in light green) during a presentation in November 2018. It's shown on page 47 of 66 of this pdf file https://www.aeropuertosgap.com.mx/files ... 2018v7.pdf

The proposed hallway should be a continuation to the east of the long hallway connecting concourses A, B, and (future) C together.

However, I didn't find funding for that future concourse C building in a subsequent 5-year financial outlook document. It may be in preliminary planning phase at this point. But they did spend money to show it on a 3D rendering.

Yes, San Diego will likely end up competing with TIJ for European and Asian carriers come 2022 or 2023. I can imagine Qantas, Air France, Air New Zealand, Singapore Airlines, and Cathay Pacific will all explore the possibility of landing in TJ to refuel on their way to Europe or South America. Maybe they'll be able to drop off and pick up passengers? Does Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) membership help those airlines and their passengers? I vaguely remember seeing TPP signage at Mexican immigration in TJ airport once.

One sure benefit for the airlines is that passengers can be on those flights without US visas. They won't be subject to US immigration checks if they don't get off the plane in TJ to go into San Diego using the CBX.

The airlines also won't use up a gate at LAX when they can effectively fly to southern California using the CBX.

I'm sure those airline's accountants will tabulate, compare, and contrast the costs of TIJ w/CBX & shuttles versus LAX landings.

I'm ready to pounce on cheap airfare to Tahiti on Air France if possible.

BTW: Qantas and Air New Zealand already fly across Baja on their way to Houston. Those flights are easy to spot on flightradar.

I see on another thread regarding the MAX groundings that COPA has 6 of the aircraft stored. (The thread even lists where the a/c are currently but I don't find that relevant here.) Here's the link to the thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1437865

I'm simply wondering if SAN could possibly be on the waiting list for service to PTY once the carrier takes delivery of these planes? I'd sure love to know if this might be the case and that we could see COPA here when this nightmare is finally over! I would think this might be one of the most likely new int'l routes to be started (at San Diego's Int'l Airport) in the near future.

My apologies if this particular point was brought up and discussed in last years thread; I don't remember if it was and that's quite a thread to read through!

bb

vedatil4 wrote:

vedatil4 wrote:

Someone posted pictures dated Christmas Eve of demolition work being done for the new international "in-transit" terminal at TIJ. Note the Hainan Airlines dreamliner in the background. The building should be ready by fall of 2022.

The pictures are towards the bottom of this webpage:
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthre ... 7&page=236

I've studied this rendering of the project at Tijuana airport very, very carefully: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWw3dB9xvnc (disclosure: I work in the architecture and civil engineering fields.)

I'm convinced international passengers using CBX will have a way to bypass Mexican customs and immigration when walking to or from the international gates located on the east side of hall B through an "in-transit" area. That's all good news for San Diegans wanting to catch flights to Asia, Europe, or Central America (perhaps to the US someday on Volaris? separate thread explored this possibility.)

Pause the video and focus on signage at around the 50second mark for northbound passengers and the 1min 58sec mark for southbound passengers . At those points passengers get to choose not to go through Mexican immigration and customs.

further breakdown:
If a rare passenger arriving from China, let's say, is headed to TJ, the immigration and customs for them will be on the first floor. Then they enter an arrivals foyer where they can walk outside to catch a taxi.

If a passenger arriving from China is connecting to a destination in Mexico, they'll go through immigration, customs, and airline check-in on a second floor above the taxi pickup area. Then they'll go back downstairs to the arrivals foyer, go through airport security, then enter a long corridor heading to the west side of hall B and hall A where they can catch Mexico-bound flights.

I think that same passenger arriving from China will be able to stay in the "in-transit" area to catch a connecting international flight without going through Mexican immigration and customs. There appears to be a waiting area on the left side before the escalator down to the baggage claim area and in front of the two international gates. (not sure on this one but would make sense)

I think southbound domestic flight passengers using CBX will first go into the same international "in-transit" area, then the same immigration, customs, and airline check-in on the second floor then to security on the first floor as passengers arriving from China connecting to Mexico flights.

What remains a little unclear is how northbound domestic flight passengers using CBX will reach the bridge. I think it'll be through an area just north of the international baggage pickup shown in the video.

I hope this information is helpful. Maybe others can also watch the video carefully and point out where this analysis is incorrect.

The passenger types I think need to be considered while watching the video are:

-CBX southbound for international flight
-CBX northbound from international flight (this is when I want to bypass Mexican immigration and customs)

-CBX southbound for domestic flight
-CBX northbound from domestic flight

-CBX staying in TJ for 24 hours first before domestic or international flight (rare occurrence)

-arriving Chinese connecting to a domestic flight
-arriving Chinese connecting to an international flight

-Chinese arriving to stay in TJ (very rare occurrence) (note: I use the terms China or Chinese only because Hainan already flies to TJ.)

Nope. Land border crossing to an airport. Nothing more, nothing less.

Leave your car, walk into building, clear customs into Mexico, board your flight. Only Mexican nationals would be theoretically able to bypass customs.
Walk off plane, clear Mexico customs, cross bridge, enter building, clear US customs, go to your car.

You’re entering another country, it’s not a binational airport.

SANFan wrote:

I see on another thread regarding the MAX groundings that COPA has 6 of the aircraft stored. (The thread even lists where the a/c are currently but I don't find that relevant here.) Here's the link to the thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1437865

I'm simply wondering if SAN could possibly be on the waiting list for service to PTY once the carrier takes delivery of these planes? I'd sure love to know if this might be the case and that we could see COPA here when this nightmare is finally over! I would think this might be one of the most likely new int'l routes to be started (at San Diego's Int'l Airport) in the near future.

My apologies if this particular point was brought up and discussed in last years thread; I don't remember if it was and that's quite a thread to read through!

bb

International service is always on the table! I know if you look at the recent meeting materials from the World Trade Center of San Diego (November meeting I think; it’s also in meeting archives on San.org), the airport states that they are actively talking to Copa about pursuing a non-stop flight to Panama City and I brought up in last year’s thread that the airport hosted a breakfast and lunch meeting with Copa here in San Diego last June so hopefully when the MAX issues are resolved, Copa will maybe consider launching service.

DL717 wrote:

vedatil4 wrote:

vedatil4 wrote:

Someone posted pictures dated Christmas Eve of demolition work being done for the new international "in-transit" terminal at TIJ. Note the Hainan Airlines dreamliner in the background. The building should be ready by fall of 2022.

The pictures are towards the bottom of this webpage:
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthre ... 7&page=236

I've studied this rendering of the project at Tijuana airport very, very carefully: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWw3dB9xvnc (disclosure: I work in the architecture and civil engineering fields.)

I'm convinced international passengers using CBX will have a way to bypass Mexican customs and immigration when walking to or from the international gates located on the east side of hall B through an "in-transit" area. That's all good news for San Diegans wanting to catch flights to Asia, Europe, or Central America (perhaps to the US someday on Volaris? separate thread explored this possibility.)

Pause the video and focus on signage at around the 50second mark for northbound passengers and the 1min 58sec mark for southbound passengers . At those points passengers get to choose not to go through Mexican immigration and customs.

further breakdown:
If a rare passenger arriving from China, let's say, is headed to TJ, the immigration and customs for them will be on the first floor. Then they enter an arrivals foyer where they can walk outside to catch a taxi.

If a passenger arriving from China is connecting to a destination in Mexico, they'll go through immigration, customs, and airline check-in on a second floor above the taxi pickup area. Then they'll go back downstairs to the arrivals foyer, go through airport security, then enter a long corridor heading to the west side of hall B and hall A where they can catch Mexico-bound flights.

I think that same passenger arriving from China will be able to stay in the "in-transit" area to catch a connecting international flight without going through Mexican immigration and customs. There appears to be a waiting area on the left side before the escalator down to the baggage claim area and in front of the two international gates. (not sure on this one but would make sense)

I think southbound domestic flight passengers using CBX will first go into the same international "in-transit" area, then the same immigration, customs, and airline check-in on the second floor then to security on the first floor as passengers arriving from China connecting to Mexico flights.

What remains a little unclear is how northbound domestic flight passengers using CBX will reach the bridge. I think it'll be through an area just north of the international baggage pickup shown in the video.

I hope this information is helpful. Maybe others can also watch the video carefully and point out where this analysis is incorrect.

The passenger types I think need to be considered while watching the video are:

-CBX southbound for international flight
-CBX northbound from international flight (this is when I want to bypass Mexican immigration and customs)

-CBX southbound for domestic flight
-CBX northbound from domestic flight

-CBX staying in TJ for 24 hours first before domestic or international flight (rare occurrence)

-arriving Chinese connecting to a domestic flight
-arriving Chinese connecting to an international flight

-Chinese arriving to stay in TJ (very rare occurrence) (note: I use the terms China or Chinese only because Hainan already flies to TJ.)

Nope. Land border crossing to an airport. Nothing more, nothing less.

Leave your car, walk into building, clear customs into Mexico, board your flight. Only Mexican nationals would be theoretically able to bypass customs.
Walk off plane, clear Mexico customs, cross bridge, enter building, clear US customs, go to your car.

You’re entering another country, it’s not a binational airport.

I agree. It wouldn't be a binational airport like the TwinPorts idea considered back in the early 90s. The CBX will remain just a land border crossing for pedestrians that happens to end at a Mexican airport when going southbound. That's currently the option to select on the FMM visa webpage. That won't change with this new building if a passenger is using the CBX for a domestic flight.

Reviewing the steps you mentioned:
I'm still not sure if there ever will be immigration and customs checks for people exiting the US before crossing into Mexico. The CBP booths are there and ready at CBX but I don't remember ever being questioned by an officer. I just remember having to put my bags through an xray machine.

But assuming the booths were staffed, I don't believe Mexican nationals would be exempted from a US customs exit check and definitely not exempted from the Mexico customs check if they were catching a flight from TJ to another Mexican destination. But I think they would be exempt from that Mexican customs check in they were catching a flight to China and they stay in the "in transit" area just like US passengers.

On the northbound, the stated purpose of the new terminal building is to not have Mexico immigration and customs checks fot CBX international flight passengers. But those same passsengers will get questioned by US immigration and customs checks if they walk across to San Diego (of course). Otherwise they will be either in-transit or officially inside Mexico and outside of the US.

Originally I thought maybe US officials would operate inside Mexico at TJ airport similar to what happens in Canadian airports. The rendering doesn't hint at that type of configuration. But the strange, future Terminal C for connecting flights may eventually have US pre-clearance staff operating there. That's still many, many years down the road I think. I think Mexico City would need to get US pre-clearance set up and running first before the idea is explored. Knowing Mexican sensibilities compared to Canada's, I doubt TJ or any Mexican airport will ever have uniformed US officials working there like in Montreal, for example. But the again, there's already a US customs facility operating in TJ for trucks so attitudes, feelings, and policies may be changing.

Which brings up a strange dea: if we ever get US immigration and customs pre-clearance at TJ airport in several decades, couldn't Mexico have their officials checking passengers on US soil for Mexico-bound flights? That would be a sight. Canada currently has the option but doesn't exercise it.

Any updates on a desperately needed new terminal 1?

SANFan wrote:

I see on another thread regarding the MAX groundings that COPA has 6 of the aircraft stored. (The thread even lists where the a/c are currently but I don't find that relevant here.) Here's the link to the thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1437865

I'm simply wondering if SAN could possibly be on the waiting list for service to PTY once the carrier takes delivery of these planes? I'd sure love to know if this might be the case and that we could see COPA here when this nightmare is finally over! I would think this might be one of the most likely new int'l routes to be started (at San Diego's Int'l Airport) in the near future.

My apologies if this particular point was brought up and discussed in last years thread; I don't remember if it was and that's quite a thread to read through!

bb

I would welcome Copa coming to either San Diego or TJ airport. There are lots of great destinations in that part of the world. There's a tropical sland called San Andres I want to visit and Copa flies there. San Diegans would be able to connect in Panama to many other places in the caribbean and in South America using their extensive network.

The Boeing 737 Max issues really set back a lot of airline's plans. I imagine we all lost out on increased frequencies and routes.

On a more positive note, the A321XLR will make more interesting city combinations across the atlantic possible.

airplaneboy wrote:

Any updates on a desperately needed new terminal 1?

None. The initial plans including ZERO mass transit options, but that is being re-thought. Yes, there has been a lot of poo-pooing of the mass-transit idea, complete with the "nobody is ever going to use it" concept, but I disagree. LOTS of people would prefer to be dropped off nearby, such as at the old SPAWARS facility, so that their drivers don't have to negotiate the streets of Little Italy (Grape & Hawthorne are always at a crawl) or the increasingly crowded Harbor Drive. Multiple options are being considered, including pick-up/drop-off directly at curbside, of course. But including a stop for buses/trollies/Coaster and possibly even Amtrak would allow a lot of people to avoid crawling through the streets nearby, clearing up the roads for others.

When groundbreaking does occur, however, you'll see an ENORMOUS to-do with that event . The ceremonial groundbreaking will be followed by lots of plans and discussions of what to expect. But for now, it's still in the planning phase.

I've done LOTS of my own planning for our airport (long before all SAN started working on it), and my plans jibed with what they came up, at least in general. And I was one of the vocal opponents of Terminal One's redevelopment WITHOUT the mass transit option, so I am glad they are doing that. Until then, though, Terminal One will have to continue as-is...

On a separate note, looks like SEA is getting PR service to MNL in May if confirmed, that was one of the destinations they’ve been looking at other than SAN and ORD. Also notable is that they added an extra frequency to LAX. Makes me wonder if we’ll ever get any other service to Asia in addition to JL...

Here's an interesting thread about a new airline coming to Carlsbad airport until March to take people to Taos
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1438327
Flights will be on a rare Dornier 328 jet.

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

airplaneboy wrote:

Any updates on a desperately needed new terminal 1?

None. The initial plans including ZERO mass transit options, but that is being re-thought. Yes, there has been a lot of poo-pooing of the mass-transit idea, complete with the "nobody is ever going to use it" concept, but I disagree. LOTS of people would prefer to be dropped off nearby, such as at the old SPAWARS facility, so that their drivers don't have to negotiate the streets of Little Italy (Grape & Hawthorne are always at a crawl) or the increasingly crowded Harbor Drive. Multiple options are being considered, including pick-up/drop-off directly at curbside, of course. But including a stop for buses/trollies/Coaster and possibly even Amtrak would allow a lot of people to avoid crawling through the streets nearby, clearing up the roads for others.

When groundbreaking does occur, however, you'll see an ENORMOUS to-do with that event . The ceremonial groundbreaking will be followed by lots of plans and discussions of what to expect. But for now, it's still in the planning phase.

I've done LOTS of my own planning for our airport (long before all SAN started working on it), and my plans jibed with what they came up, at least in general. And I was one of the vocal opponents of Terminal One's redevelopment WITHOUT the mass transit option, so I am glad they are doing that. Until then, though, Terminal One will have to continue as-is...

I'm also in favor of mass transit to San Diego airport. The traffic on Harbor Drive and the Little Italy area is becoming critical. I feel bad for Point Loma people who have to use those streets everyday. I don't know if ridesharing apps, increasing number of flights, or an improved economy are to blame.

But let me tell ya, I don't have much confidence in MTS. I've been to enough meetings to feel like they act like they're willing to listen to the public then do what they wanted to do anyway. My prediction is that there will be some kind of bus, trolley, or other public transportation option to.the airport but of little benefit to most because they won't come by often enough or go somewhere few are headed to.

Oh, but MTS has no problem spending something like a billion dollars and tremendous efforts for the trolley to go from downtown to UTC which few, aside from the homeless, will benefit from.

vedatil4 wrote:

Here's an interesting thread about a new airline coming to Carlsbad airport until March to take people to Taos
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1438327
Flights will be on a rare Dornier 328 jet.

Seasonal is better than none I guess. I wish Taos success at CLD. I'm hoping Contour will start service there too.

SANMAN66 wrote:

vedatil4 wrote:

Here's an interesting thread about a new airline coming to Carlsbad airport until March to take people to Taos
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1438327
Flights will be on a rare Dornier 328 jet.

Seasonal is better than none I guess. I wish Taos success at CLD. I'm hoping Contour will start service there too.

It would be great get a flight up to Crescent City with Contour.

The news made me wonder if California Pacific Airlines will ever start up again? It only lasted a few months.

LindyFlight wrote:

On a separate note, looks like SEA is getting PR service to MNL in May if confirmed, that was one of the destinations they’ve been looking at other than SAN and ORD. Also notable is that they added an extra frequency to LAX.

Yeah, Cebu-LAX is supposedly the added capacity at the city to our north, according to the OAG thread this morning; 3x weekly SEA-MNL as well as on CBU-LAX.

Nothing is being mentioned anywhere lately regarding PR and SAN so it's hard to be optimistic but I suppose 'slim-to-none' is still slightly better than just 'none'? I'm keeping an eye out for any sort of positive vibes that might surface but both PR and SDIA (as always) are as quiet as rocks.

We've already got some nice things on the books for 2020 (see my post up-thread) but wouldn't it be wonderful to see a new intercontinental destination -- by a new foreign flag carrier -- announced this year?!

And finally, from the 'for-what-it's-worth' file, PR's application back in 2008 to serve SAN indicated a 4th quarter start... (Oh, and AFAIK, SEA-MNL has never been applied for by PR.)

bb

SANFan wrote:

LindyFlight wrote:

On a separate note, looks like SEA is getting PR service to MNL in May if confirmed, that was one of the destinations they’ve been looking at other than SAN and ORD. Also notable is that they added an extra frequency to LAX.

Yeah, Cebu-LAX is supposedly the added capacity at the city to our north, according to the OAG thread this morning; 3x weekly SEA-MNL as well as on CBU-LAX.

Nothing is being mentioned anywhere lately regarding PR and SAN so it's hard to be optimistic but I suppose 'slim-to-none' is still slightly better than just 'none'? I'm keeping an eye out for any sort of positive vibes that might surface but both PR and SDIA (as always) are as quiet as rocks.

We've already got some nice things on the books for 2020 (see my post up-thread) but wouldn't it be wonderful to see a new intercontinental destination -- by a new foreign flag carrier -- announced this year?!

And finally, from the 'for-what-it's-worth' file, PR's application back in 2008 to serve SAN indicated a 4th quarter start... (Oh, and AFAIK, SEA-MNL has never been applied for by PR.)

bb

I'm always of the mind that SAN-MNL would take away yields from LAX-MNL, which is running fine x2. I suspect that SAN is just too close, and that the VFR traffic would find it more expensive taking a SAN-MNL non-stop, which is very price sensitive. And for those who must fly out of SAN, going on JL via NRT is proving extremely convenient. I hold no hope for seeing PAL here.

How much longer are LH's incentives running? Any further European carriers (KL/AF/SkyTeam), I would assume would be waiting for those to kick in before starting service.

We waited a very long time for SAN to live up to "international" status, but it is thriving. However, the unrelenting gravity of LAX is a tough thing to overcome, so all we can do is hope that it doesn't prove too strong and keep carriers away. SEA, on the other hand, doesn't have that issue...

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

SANFan wrote:

LindyFlight wrote:

On a separate note, looks like SEA is getting PR service to MNL in May if confirmed, that was one of the destinations they’ve been looking at other than SAN and ORD. Also notable is that they added an extra frequency to LAX.

Yeah, Cebu-LAX is supposedly the added capacity at the city to our north, according to the OAG thread this morning; 3x weekly SEA-MNL as well as on CBU-LAX.

Nothing is being mentioned anywhere lately regarding PR and SAN so it's hard to be optimistic but I suppose 'slim-to-none' is still slightly better than just 'none'? I'm keeping an eye out for any sort of positive vibes that might surface but both PR and SDIA (as always) are as quiet as rocks.

We've already got some nice things on the books for 2020 (see my post up-thread) but wouldn't it be wonderful to see a new intercontinental destination -- by a new foreign flag carrier -- announced this year?!

And finally, from the 'for-what-it's-worth' file, PR's application back in 2008 to serve SAN indicated a 4th quarter start... (Oh, and AFAIK, SEA-MNL has never been applied for by PR.)

bb

I'm always of the mind that SAN-MNL would take away yields from LAX-MNL, which is running fine x2. I suspect that SAN is just too close, and that the VFR traffic would find it more expensive taking a SAN-MNL non-stop, which is very price sensitive. And for those who must fly out of SAN, going on JL via NRT is proving extremely convenient. I hold no hope for seeing PAL here.

How much longer are LH's incentives running? Any further European carriers (KL/AF/SkyTeam), I would assume would be waiting for those to kick in before starting service.

We waited a very long time for SAN to live up to "international" status, but it is thriving. However, the unrelenting gravity of LAX is a tough thing to overcome, so all we can do is hope that it doesn't prove too strong and keep carriers away. SEA, on the other hand, doesn't have that issue...

Let's see... Lufthansa started service back in March of 18' and I remember reading in the UT that the incentives cover the first two years. So they are presumably due to expire in March of this year. Forecasts in 2016 showed an additional EU hub cx starting service in 2020 but nothing yet, I'd imagine it's because the airport wants to make sure that Lufthansa is successful here and I think they're doing just that! I believe it takes a new route about 24 months to fully develop and become profitable and we're getting closer to that mark. That ASH conference is in town again this coming November/December and those Air France flights did the job back in 2018 well so I would think that they will be back. My best guess is that we'll get an additional EU carrier (hopefully KL/AF) between 2021-2023.

Jan 15 & 16, AC subbing Rouge flights to/from YYZ with a 767.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -jan-2020/

LindyFlight wrote:

Let's see... Lufthansa started service back in March of 18' and I remember reading in the UT that the incentives cover the first two years. So they are presumably due to expire in March of this year. Forecasts in 2016 showed an additional EU hub cx starting service in 2020 but nothing yet, I'd imagine it's because the airport wants to make sure that Lufthansa is successful here and I think they're doing just that! I believe it takes a new route about 24 months to fully develop and become profitable and we're getting closer to that mark. That ASH conference is in town again this coming November/December and those Air France flights did the job back in 2018 well so I would think that they will be back. My best guess is that we'll get an additional EU carrier (hopefully KL/AF) between 2021-2023.

It has been so long since anyone mentioned the two-year length of the incentives, I had completely forgotten the length of time they were in effect. Thank you for the reminder!

I doubt we'll see anything from Europe this year, as the peak season to start service here generally has been late March, and that's only a couple of months away. Perhaps March of 2021 will be the time when we see a new European carrier. The logical assumption is the missing SkyTeam presence, and either CDG or AMS or a combination of both would be the most logical. However, can AMS absorb a new destination? Or are they maxed out?

If and when the MAX ever flies again, I'll bet we hear rumblings again of Copa to PTY.

And is there room at SAN for a second Asian carrier? Or would that pull from LAX and JL to NRT at this time?

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:

Jan 15 & 16, AC subbing Rouge flights to/from YYZ with a 767.
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -jan-2020/

That's exciting! Thanks for reporting this bit of news Space'.

I hope some of our resident photographers will be able to snap a few; scheduled arrival is 10:41am, with departure at 11:50am.

I don't know if this is due to some special stuff happening -- questionable since no weekend is involved -- or just heavy loads for which rouge was able to provide a widebody. We have had years when the carrier has offered daily-double service, generally a red-eye providing the 2nd flight, so perhaps we will see further additional capacity during 2020?

And of course, keep in mind that the AC-associated company, Air Transat, will begin nonstop service to Montreal this June! More AC presence in America's Finest City! The next thing I'd love to see from one of the AC family of cx is a confirmation of the success of SAN-YVR route with upgraded (mainline?) equipment; they seem to be successful with the triple-daily service (by Jazz CR9s) operating year-round for a few years now.

bb

SANFan wrote:

Yeah, Cebu-LAX is supposedly the added capacity at the city to our north, according to the OAG thread this morning; 3x weekly SEA-MNL as well as on CBU-LAX.

I think it's not an added frequency...rather a reduction of one MNL flight on alternate days to make way for the CEB flight as PR's slot allocations at LAX may already be full. Not to give false hopes...but if it's any consolation, the linked blog there said: "With that in mind, there are only three US destinations left that are up for grabs soon".

A comment in reply noted that the increased capacity at LAX was pushing MNL-LAX yields down, and added: "In regards to the A350 to SEA, take note that they have reduced MNL-LHR frequencies to 5x a week it may further be reduced to 4x a week opening the possibility of another route being added 3x a week."

On January 3, 2020, California Pacific filed documents with the Department of Transportation towards resuming flight operations. This time only the Carlsbad base will operate.

https://paxex.aero/2020/01/california-p ... ing-again/

Devilfish wrote:

I think it's not an added frequency...rather a reduction of one MNL flight on alternate days to make way for the CEB flight as PR's slot allocations at LAX may already be full. Not to give false hopes...but if it's any consolation, the linked blog there said: "With that in mind, there are only three US destinations left that are up for grabs soon".

A comment in reply noted that the increased capacity at LAX was pushing MNL-LAX yields down, and added: "In regards to the A350 to SEA, take note that they have reduced MNL-LHR frequencies to 5x a week it may further be reduced to 4x a week opening the possibility of another route being added 3x a week."

Happy New Year, Devil', and leave it to you to come in wringing a slurp of optimism out of pretty much a vast wasteland! ORD has always been mentioned as a goal destination of PR but then SAN used to be as well.

I seem to recall that one of us on this thread noted a year or two back that SDIA painted yellow aircraft positioning lines at some Green Build gates for the AA350...! Little glimmers of hints along with huge amounts of hope sometimes coagulate into big surprises.

Seriously, thanks for your usual very helpful explanations of things, Devil'!

bb

vedatil4 wrote:

That's all good news for San Diegans ... (perhaps to the US someday on Volaris? separate thread explored this possibility.)

There are a lot of destinations listed on Volaris website, but I presume these are parternships with Frontier Airlines.

Costa Rica
San Jose, CR
El Salvador
San Salvador
Guatemala
Guatemala City
Mexico
Acapulco
Aguascalentes
Cabo San Lucas
Cancun
Chetumal
Chihuahua
Ciudad Obregon
Colima
Cozumel
Culiacan
Durango
Guadalajara
Hermosillo
Huatulco
Ixtapa-Zihuatanejo
Juarez
La Paz
Leon
Loreto
Los Mochis
Mazatlan
Mexicali
Mexico City
Monterrey
Morelia
Mérida
Oaxaca
Puebla
Puerto Escondido
Puerto Vallarta
Queretaro
San Luis Potosi
Tapachula
Tepic
Tijuana
Torreon
Tuxtla Gutierrez
Uruapan
Veracruz
Zacatecas
United States
Atlanta
Austin
Birmingham
Bismarck
Boise
Bozeman
Branson
Buffalo
Cedar Rapids
Charleston
Charlotte
Chicago
Cincinnati
Cleveland
Colorado Springs
Columbus
Dallas
Denver
Des Moines
Detroit
El Paso
Fargo
Fort Myers
Fresno
Grand Rapids
Greenville
Houston
Indianapolis
Jackson
Jacksonville
Lafayette
Las Vegas
Little Rock
Long Island
Los Angeles
Louisville
Madison
Memphis
Miami
Milwaukee
Minneapolis
Missoula
Nashville
New Orleans
New York
Norfolk
Oakland
Oklahoma City
Omaha
Ontario
Orlando
Palm Springs
Pensacola
Philadelphia
Phoenix
Pittsburgh
Portland
Providence
Raleigh
Reno
Sacramento
Saint Louis
Salt Lake City
San Antonio
San Diego
San Francisco
San Jose
Santa Ana
Seattle
Sioux Falls
Spokane
Syracuse
Tampa
Trenton
Tulsa
Washington
Wichita

PacoMartin wrote:

vedatil4 wrote:

That's all good news for San Diegans ... (perhaps to the US someday on Volaris? separate thread explored this possibility.)

There are a lot of destinations listed on Volaris website, but I presume these are parternships with Frontier Airlines.

Costa Rica
San Jose, CR
El Salvador
San Salvador
Guatemala
Guatemala City
Mexico
Acapulco
Aguascalentes
Cabo San Lucas
Cancun
Chetumal
Chihuahua
Ciudad Obregon
Colima
Cozumel
Culiacan
Durango
Guadalajara
Hermosillo
Huatulco
Ixtapa-Zihuatanejo
Juarez
La Paz
Leon
Loreto
Los Mochis
Mazatlan
Mexicali
Mexico City
Monterrey
Morelia
Mérida
Oaxaca
Puebla
Puerto Escondido
Puerto Vallarta
Queretaro
San Luis Potosi
Tapachula
Tepic
Tijuana
Torreon
Tuxtla Gutierrez
Uruapan
Veracruz
Zacatecas
United States
Atlanta
Austin
Birmingham
Bismarck
Boise
Bozeman
Branson
Buffalo
Cedar Rapids
Charleston
Charlotte
Chicago
Cincinnati
Cleveland
Colorado Springs
Columbus
Dallas
Denver
Des Moines
Detroit
El Paso
Fargo
Fort Myers
Fresno
Grand Rapids
Greenville
Houston
Indianapolis
Jackson
Jacksonville
Lafayette
Las Vegas
Little Rock
Long Island
Los Angeles
Louisville
Madison
Memphis
Miami
Milwaukee
Minneapolis
Missoula
Nashville
New Orleans
New York
Norfolk
Oakland
Oklahoma City
Omaha
Ontario
Orlando
Palm Springs
Pensacola
Philadelphia
Phoenix
Pittsburgh
Portland
Providence
Raleigh
Reno
Sacramento
Saint Louis
Salt Lake City
San Antonio
San Diego
San Francisco
San Jose
Santa Ana
Seattle
Sioux Falls
Spokane
Syracuse
Tampa
Trenton
Tulsa
Washington
Wichita

Yes, many of those destinations are partnerships with other airlines. I doubt Volaris will ever fly to Bozeman, for example. But Volaris does fly their planes to 22 US destinations on the list.

TIJ is one of their hub cities and they have a maintenance base there. I'm thinking that part of their expansion plans is more flights to the US once the new in-transit terminal is completed in 2022. They flew from TIJ to Oakland in the past so they've tried once before.

My experiences with them have been great. It's hard to complain when most flights are less than $200 round-trip. I just wish they flew to more beach destinations at reasonable times. Their bread and butter still seems to be VFR passengers to Mexico City or Guadalajara.

You can already book flights to Fresno, for example, but you have to fly to Guadalajara then fly back to Fresno. The price point can be reasonable with sales but it seems crazy to fly so far south to go north.

vedatil4 wrote:

TIJ is one of their hub cities and they have a maintenance base there. I'm thinking that part of their expansion plans is more flights to the US once the new in-transit terminal is completed in 2022. They flew from TIJ to Oakland in the past so they've tried once before.

I went over this before. TIJ and SAN are close to each other. I strongly believe that Volaris discontinued it's OAK-TIJ flight because it made more sense to simply go to SAN and fly domestically on WN or AS to OAK or anywhere else in the U.S. Whereas Volaris discontinued SAN service because it made more sense to go to TIJ and fly domestically on Volaris anywhere in Mexico.

SANMAN66 wrote:

TIJ and SAN are close to each other. I strongly believe that Volaris discontinued it's OAK-TIJ flight because it made more sense to simply go to SAN and fly domestically on WN or AS to OAK or anywhere else in the U.S. Whereas Volaris discontinued SAN service because it made more sense to go to TIJ and fly domestically on Volaris anywhere in Mexico.

Agreed 100%. SAN has never been able to hold on to Mexico service other than O&D to/from certain resort cities because of the lower costs at TIJ, saving hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars in international fees. Dealing with the hassles of San Ysidro & Otay Mesa has been worth the savings, and with Cross Border Xpress adding to the mix, TIJ has become San Diego's Latin American airport. My husband and I got tickets on Volaris for TIJ-PVR in Premium Economy (checked bag, priority seating, and airport assistance at TIJ and PVR, as needed) plus CBX round-trip tickets for $260 less than the lowest fare on AS out of SAN. I will definitely be doing a trip report upon our return!!

I'm starting a thread in Polls & Preferences, however, about being able to consider TIJ competition for SAN on the SAN-ELP route by flying TIJ-CJS. There is nothing to stop an American citizen who, with the right documents, could cross into Mexico from San Diego (CBX even!), fly to Ciudad Juarez, and take ground transportation to the border and into El Paso, Texas. Are there any other border city-pairs like this?

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

SANMAN66 wrote:

TIJ and SAN are close to each other. I strongly believe that Volaris discontinued it's OAK-TIJ flight because it made more sense to simply go to SAN and fly domestically on WN or AS to OAK or anywhere else in the U.S. Whereas Volaris discontinued SAN service because it made more sense to go to TIJ and fly domestically on Volaris anywhere in Mexico.

Agreed 100%. SAN has never been able to hold on to Mexico service other than O&D to/from certain resort cities because of the lower costs at TIJ, saving hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars in international fees. Dealing with the hassles of San Ysidro & Otay Mesa has been worth the savings, and with Cross Border Xpress adding to the mix, TIJ has become San Diego's Latin American airport. My husband and I got tickets on Volaris for TIJ-PVR in Premium Economy (checked bag, priority seating, and airport assistance at TIJ and PVR, as needed) plus CBX round-trip tickets for $260 less than the lowest fare on AS out of SAN. I will definitely be doing a trip report upon our return!!

I'm starting a thread in Polls & Preferences, however, about being able to consider TIJ competition for SAN on the SAN-ELP route by flying TIJ-CJS. There is nothing to stop an American citizen who, with the right documents, could cross into Mexico from San Diego (CBX even!), fly to Ciudad Juarez, and take ground transportation to the border and into El Paso, Texas. Are there any other border city-pairs like this?

The only other border town flight like that is the nonstop from TJ to Tapachula to get to Guatemala. That's how the flight is marketed too.

But none other I can think of to another town along the southside of the US Mexico border.

We considered flying to Juarez, crossing to El Paso, renting a car, then driving to Carlsbad Caverns and White Sands.

BtW: A long time ago, early 90s I believe, there used to be an Aeromexico TJ-Monterrey-Havana flight. I doubt US persons were stopped from boarding.

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

I'm starting a thread in Polls & Preferences, however, about being able to consider TIJ competition for SAN on the SAN-ELP route by flying TIJ-CJS. There is nothing to stop an American citizen who, with the right documents, could cross into Mexico from San Diego (CBX even!), fly to Ciudad Juarez, and take ground transportation to the border and into El Paso, Texas. Are there any other border city-pairs like this?

The question is, how many Americans would want to cross the border, catch a flight to another Mexican destination, and cross the border back into the U.S.? TIJ and SAN complement each other and not compete. With the CBX in play, TIJ has become the second international airport serving the San Diego/Tijuana region. If TIJ was located at least 1 to 2 hours south of Tijuana, then we could possibly see some competition between both airports with flights to the U.S. and Mexico.

SANMAN66 wrote:

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

I'm starting a thread in Polls & Preferences, however, about being able to consider TIJ competition for SAN on the SAN-ELP route by flying TIJ-CJS. There is nothing to stop an American citizen who, with the right documents, could cross into Mexico from San Diego (CBX even!), fly to Ciudad Juarez, and take ground transportation to the border and into El Paso, Texas. Are there any other border city-pairs like this?

The question is, how many Americans would want to cross the border, catch a flight to another Mexican destination, and cross the border back into the U.S.? TIJ and SAN complement each other and not compete. With the CBX in play, TIJ has become the second international airport serving the San Diego/Tijuana region. If TIJ was located at least 1 to 2 hours south of Tijuana, then we could possibly see some competition between both airports with flights to the U.S. and Mexico.

CJS and ELP are close in proximity to each other. The unique dynamic here is that US-based folks going to SAN will not cross into CJS just to fly to TIJ and then cross back into the US. Many US locals will only fly out of CJS to reach other cities within the Mexican interior. Same thing for Mexican nationals who posses work or tourist visas. They'll fly out of ELP for destinations within the US or to make connecting flights to Canada and Europe.

Thank you for the responses to my question! Very much appreciated.

I don't think I was very clear in what I was asking, and that's on me. I'm still not sure that even I know what exactly it was I was asking.

I suppose the closest I can think would be SEA-DTW and YVR or YYJ-YQG, even though SEA and YVR aren't nearly as close as SAN and TIJ:

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SEA-DTW%2C+YVR-YQG%2C+YYJ-YQG&DU=nm&SU=kts&RS=best

I can see families in the South Bay of San Diego, many with close ties and frequent travels to Mexico, using TIJ-CJS as an alternative to SAN-ELP, but only on that route. Nothing else even comes close in terms of proximity, but with enough savvy, it's certainly possible.

As for the other points about SAN being one of Latin America's best domestic-U.S. airports, absolutely. I have heard many stories as well about BUF being one of Canada's most important domestic-U.S. airports, as a relatively short drive over the Niagara River can save hundreds of dollars per trip versus flying internationally out of Canada. The same being true as well for YVR & Washington state and SEA for British Columbia.

Just an unusual circumstance that for some reason yesterday utterly fascinated me.

Does CJS/ELP have something similar to CBX? Otherwise, people using TIJ-CJS an an alternative to SAN-ELP will still have to deal with the land border crossing on the ELP/CJS end.

As far as western Canada, BLI is actually quite a bit closer than SEA. If memory serves, going after BC traffic was a major reason Allegiant started their base there.

hawaiian717 wrote:

Does CJS/ELP have something similar to CBX? Otherwise, people using TIJ-CJS an an alternative to SAN-ELP will still have to deal with the land border crossing on the ELP/CJS end.

Nothing similar to a CBX for CJS - it's not all that close to the border.

hawaiian717 wrote:

Does CJS/ELP have something similar to CBX? Otherwise, people using TIJ-CJS an an alternative to SAN-ELP will still have to deal with the land border crossing on the ELP/CJS end.

As far as western Canada, BLI is actually quite a bit closer than SEA. If memory serves, going after BC traffic was a major reason Allegiant started their base there.

TIJ is unique in that it's only a few hundred feet south of the border. CJS is much further south from the border and can't have a CBX-style bridge. So after flying there, passengers would need to catch a 1/2 hour taxi ride to the border. The border crossing won't be so bad if they already have Sentri cards.

On the northern border, a cheap alternative for Canadians in the Montreal area is to drive down to Plattsburgh or Burlington to catch US domestic flights. .

I flew to Burlington from San Diego once then caught a Greyhound there to Montreal. It's an open secret. The taxi driver that took me from the airport to the bus terminal asked me I was heading to Montreal.

I've considered flying from San Diego to Bellingham. But the flight times weren't so great. Of course I'd be heading to Vancouver to score some maple syrup cookies and to enjoy the metric system.