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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:51 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
There was a large bio-medical conference held in San Diego, and Air France scheduled several "one-off" scheduled services. Tickets could be purchased by the general public; however, someone reported that less than 100 seats were sold on one of the flights. However, given that this was solely for the conference, any additional tickets above and beyond those sold for that reason was extra revenue. And zero advertising for a one-or-two-times-only destination? I'd be surprised that ANY were sold!


If memory serves, those flights were chartered to bring conference attendees from Paris to San Diego for the conference and bring them back at the end. What otherwise would have been empty positioning legs were instead published as scheduled flights and tickets sold. I imagine most of the people on those flights were traveling from San Diego to Paris or beyond (or vice-versa) and just happened to be on the dates of the flights so the nonstop came up. I suspect they got the nonstop one way and went through another hub the other. I saw that <100 passengers figure as well.

They used the temporary light up traffic signs along the side of Harbor Drive to direct Air France passengers to the Delta counter in terminal 2; they didn't make Air France signs for the permanent signs above Harbor.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:42 am

Newark727 wrote:
Does anyone know if Edelweiss Air will be back this summer? I wanted to get a photo of them last year, but it didn't work out (something about a ground collision in Toronto? I forget.)

In July, August and September only, as of now.

Take a look for yourself:
https://www.flyedelweiss.com/EN/fly/fli ... diego.aspx

bb
 
Newark727
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:52 am

SANFan wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Does anyone know if Edelweiss Air will be back this summer? I wanted to get a photo of them last year, but it didn't work out (something about a ground collision in Toronto? I forget.)

In July, August and September only, as of now.

Take a look for yourself:
https://www.flyedelweiss.com/EN/fly/fli ... diego.aspx

bb


Excellent, thank you.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:57 am

vedatil4 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
vedatil4 wrote:
Yes, Paris is probably high on a list of international destinations not served directly. I did manage to see the AirFrance 777 that came to town a few months ago. They sold tickets for that flight. Maybe it was a test run? I can only hope.


There was a large bio-medical conference held in San Diego, and Air France scheduled several "one-off" scheduled services. Tickets could be purchased by the general public; however, someone reported that less than 100 seats were sold on one of the flights. However, given that this was solely for the conference, any additional tickets above and beyond those sold for that reason was extra revenue. And zero advertising for a one-or-two-times-only destination? I'd be surprised that ANY were sold!

I wonder if on the way back to Toronto the flight connected to flights to Europe or Cuba. I know they have an in-transit type of terminal there. Did or do in-transit passengers go through customs and immigration there if Canada isn't their destination? What if someone had a DUI? Will they be allowed onto the flight if they're not admissable into Canada? I wonder.


There are specific facilities for "in-transit-to-the-U.S." that allow in-transit passengers to by-pass Canadian customs completely. One stays in the sterile area and proceeds directly to the U.S.-bound gates, and then goes through U.S. customs before boarding, so upon arrival it is treated as a domestic flight.

Got a DUI? You've got work to do, applying for "temporary residency" in Canada. This solution was created to allow President (at the time) George W. Bush to visit Canada, which would not have been allowed under the current system. Even the President would have been barred from the country had an exception to the rule not been created. Same with many olympic athletes in 2010 - lots of them had DUI's, and exceptions had to be made.

However, if you haven't gone through the process, you're not getting on the plane, period.


I don't have a DUI on my record but I do know they treat it as a felony which makes some passengers inadmissible felons in their view. This seems a harsh policy to me but it's their country. I wondered if maybe some of those DUI passengers could go in-transit in Toronto onto Europe? From your reply, it seems like the answer is no. So they'll be denied boarding Canadian-flagged airplanes too? Ouch.

Like I wrote, I love Canada and its little quirks. Here's another question: I know AirTransat will soon fly San Diego to Montreal. On arrival to Montreal are flight crews required to speak some French to air traffic control there? French language laws can be intense in Quebec. Example: no KFC (Kentucky Fried Chicken) only PFK (Poulet Frit Kentucky). :-) Is English the official language of aviation? I wonder how ATC staff there respond there if pilots don't open up with "bonjour" or "bonsoir".

When I see videos of aircraft landing in other countries, I see English mixed with German, Spanish, or other languages used. I imagine this can lead to confusion. While I'm on this rant, why don't airlines use the metric system? A flight almost crashed once because they loaded an amount of liters instead of gallons; Gimli Glider, anyone? Any clarification will be appreciated.

Here's a video of AirFrance at a San Diego gate. You can see a Lufthansa A340 in the background. Both majestic aircraft but someone hit thumbs down? Mon dieu!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwBT6Cog8oI


Great response Vedatil4! Here's the video I took myself on that day the first Air France 777 arrived in San Diego, from the Prado Bridge:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EomZu1_NqQM

I know English is the official language of aviation, but I also know in many areas of the world the local language is used quite frequently. However, in major metropolitan areas around the world, including Montreal, English will be used as the language of communication.
 
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Coronado990
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:13 pm

SANMAN66 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
I'd guess the top unserved international market out of SAN will be CUN or a place in Asia such as Manila or Seoul.. Other Asian destinations -- besides TYO -- probably aren't too large on their own but if they are a big enough hub, they should eventually see service from here. Latin America is undoubtedly similar to the Asian situation.
bb


I'll bet JAL is happy having the SAN-Asia market all to themselves since they take care of the pax connecting in NRT onward to MNL. I threw in the towel long time ago of hoping PR serving SAN. They just don't seem interested anymore. SAN-NRT might be the only route to Asia this area can handle at the moment.


Will PR have an aircraft in the future that can fly non-stop to MNL from SAN? If not, it will be hard to convince them to come here if you have to make a tech stop somewhere anyway. The bright side is that they can fly to SAN non-stop so that is half the battle. I would suggest re-instating LAS and make a triangle flight MNL-SAN-LAS-MNL with the LAS-MNL flight departing close to midnight when the temps are cooler during the summer months. The downside is LAS pax will need to go through customs at SAN first before continuing their journey. The only way to go non-stop both ways from the region would be out of the TIJ airport (or a quonset hut at Miramar!).
Cornucopia
 
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Scooter
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:49 pm

AirFiero wrote:
Hey, is the YouTuber “SANspotter” here?


Yup, I'm here! Lurking in the shadows since '99 or so. lol

I don't spend much time on a.net as much as I used to, but I'm always following the SAN threads.
My name is Scott, and I am addicted to writing obnoxiously-detailed trip reports.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:19 pm

Coronado990 wrote:
Will PR have an aircraft in the future that can fly non-stop to MNL from SAN? If not, it will be hard to convince them to come here if you have to make a tech stop somewhere anyway. The bright side is that they can fly to SAN non-stop so that is half the battle. I would suggest re-instating LAS and make a triangle flight MNL-SAN-LAS-MNL with the LAS-MNL flight departing close to midnight when the temps are cooler during the summer months. The downside is LAS pax will need to go through customs at SAN first before continuing their journey. The only way to go non-stop both ways from the region would be out of the TIJ airport (or a quonset hut at Miramar!).


I don't think the tech stop will be the deciding factor in travel from San Diego to the Philippines; the deciding factor will always be price. Right now PR is doing quite well twice a day flying LAX-MNL, with passengers coming from all over Southern California. For a SAN-MNL flight to work, it will have to NOT detract from the yields PR is getting at this time. Personally, I don't see that happening, nor do I see a triangle route being viable.

As far as aircraft go, the A350 might be able to do the route, but can PR get the yields necessary to justify the flight?
 
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Devilfish
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:21 pm

Coronado990 wrote:
Will PR have an aircraft in the future that can fly non-stop to MNL from SAN? If not, it will be hard to convince them to come here if you have to make a tech stop somewhere anyway. The bright side is that they can fly to SAN non-stop so that is half the battle.

They already have the A359 but there are only six of those at present. Apart from the elephant a short distance to the North, MNL-SAN is a very long TPAC sector particularly on the westbound. If PR sees there's sustainable traffic to consistently fill the A359 without discounting fares much, it's not too farfetched that they'd exercise their options for a couple more.

Coronado990 wrote:
I would suggest re-instating LAS and make a triangle flight MNL-SAN-LAS-MNL with the LAS-MNL flight departing close to midnight when the temps are cooler during the summer months. The downside is LAS pax will need to go through customs at SAN first before continuing their journey.

Another solution would be to tag SAN onto YVR instead of LAS previously. That way, PR could pick pax on the way...although the cross-border formalities may again be a hassle. :airplane: It might not be too big of a risk should PR also opt for a pair of A338s to test the waters -- like two other carriers recently? :wink2:


PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
As far as aircraft go, the A350 might be able to do the route, but can PR get the yields necessary to justify the flight?

Bingo. The A359 is quite an expensive plane to amortize or lease...and PR is not exactly swimming in cash right now.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:12 pm

Saw this mentioned on FlyerTalk so went to go check and Hawaiian’s web site has the HNL-SAN flight going back to the A330 with the May 21 arrival.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:18 pm

Hey Devil', do you inow if HNL is still on the table as a via-point between SAN and MNL? I know this was talked about some a year or 2 ago, using an A330 I believe.

Another question, has SEA-MNL been applied for with the DOT yet? And/or has it been announced yet by PR HQ? Stuff seems to be unfolding recently in a slightly cloudy, unfocused manner. (Maybe that's the normal state of affairs with the carrier?)

Thanks so much for keeping an eye on our little 661-acre thread and the constantly arising topic of PR and SAN, and most of all, for your expertise on and interest in the topic.

bb
 
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Coronado990
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:47 pm

How about Cebu Pacific? Are they still interested in serving the US West Coast? Maybe a MNL-HNL-SAN route would work for them if PR isn't interested..
Cornucopia
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:06 am

hawaiian717 wrote:
Saw this mentioned on FlyerTalk so went to go check and Hawaiian’s web site has the HNL-SAN flight going back to the A330 with the May 21 arrival.

Ahhhhh! So HA actually twitched somewhat at the announced start up of WN here in April!

This is turning out to be an important enough market -- SAN to Hawaii -- to see some action by all 3 cx involved and I call that terrific, and healthy. Competition!

Here's my summary, as of now. Please make additions/correction as needed folks:

WN - announced start of service in April with a daily flight to HNL and OGG;
AS - took all 4 flights to all 4 islands daily earlier than ever, and they remain daily thru the duration of the open booking schedule (which is currently in December) -- perhaps permanently?; is also going daily-double to Maui for the peak summer schedule (May 21 thru Aug 16);
HA - appears HA will upgrade SAN-HNL back to the A330 on May 21 (from the A321.)

Quite different than last summer, eh?

bb
 
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Devilfish
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:09 am

SANFan wrote:
Hey Devil', do you inow if HNL is still on the table as a via-point between SAN and MNL? I know this was talked about some a year or 2 ago, using an A330 I believe.

IIRC, those were just some wild talk and speculation with no solid basis. Moreover, the business case wouldn't have been there as PR cannot carry HNL pax to the mainland or to MNL on the return due to cabotage...likely resulting to a partly empty plane half of the way.

SANFan wrote:
Another question, has SEA-MNL been applied for with the DOT yet? And/or has it been announced yet by PR HQ?

I would guess so, although SEA still doesn't appear in the city list on their booking app (intriguingly, SAN does). :wideeyed: Nothing official re the route has been made public by PAL yet.

SANFan wrote:
and most of all, for your expertise on and interest in the topic.

:laughing: There you go again...perish the thought. As I had told you a long while back, am just a member of the peanut gallery who spends an inordinate amount of time in front of the computer banging endless nonsense on my keyboard :!:


Coronado990 wrote:
How about Cebu Pacific? Are they still interested in serving the US West Coast? Maybe a MNL-HNL-SAN route would work for them if PR isn't interested..

5J had shelved their HNL plans indefinitely...highly doubtful they're eyeing the West Coast for the near term. Their CEO said they have a more regional focus now.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:14 am

SANFan wrote:
HA - appears HA will upgrade SAN-HNL back to the A330 on May 21 (from the A321.)
bb


I guess pax want to ride on widebodies from SAN-HNL instead of those itty-bitty A321s and 737s. Is the upgrade temporary or permanent?
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
AirFiero
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:43 pm

Scooter wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
Hey, is the YouTuber “SANspotter” here?


Yup, I'm here! Lurking in the shadows since '99 or so. lol

I don't spend much time on a.net as much as I used to, but I'm always following the SAN threads.


Awesome! I enjoy your videos, good job!

I hope you’ll stop by more often, and keep up the good work. :thumbsup:
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:23 pm

Scooter wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
Hey, is the YouTuber “SANspotter” here?


Yup, I'm here! Lurking in the shadows since '99 or so. lol

I don't spend much time on a.net as much as I used to, but I'm always following the SAN threads.

I join with the others in hoping to hear from you more often, Scoot'. Your contributions are missed and more than welcome; less lurking and more posting please!

bb
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:13 am

On my facebook account there was a post about Emirates Airlines coming to San Diego to interview people on January 29th. Their website said people would be based in Dubai. But do they normally hire people from destinations they'll serve in the future?
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:20 am

vedatil4 wrote:
On my facebook account there was a post about Emirates Airlines coming to San Diego to interview people on January 29th. Their website said people would be based in Dubai. But do they normally hire people from destinations they'll serve in the future?


It sounds like they're hiring Flight Attendants and Flight crews in general.
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:42 am

vedatil4 wrote:
On my facebook account there was a post about Emirates Airlines coming to San Diego to interview people on January 29th. Their website said people would be based in Dubai. But do they normally hire people from destinations they'll serve in the future?

Wasn't there some chatter last year that Emirates was going to start cargo service to SAN via MSP or something like that? Maybe these aren't the correct details but it was one of the Middle East cx, cargo-only service to SAN, via some Midwest U.S. city -- and it sounded definite and not a flimsy rumor... Anyone else remember that?

I don't know if this would have anything to do with your post vedatil' but I thought I'd mention it.

bb
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:58 am

SANFan wrote:
Wasn't there some chatter last year that Emirates was going to start cargo service to SAN via MSP or something like that? Maybe these aren't the correct details but it was one of the Middle East cx, cargo-only service to SAN, via some Midwest U.S. city -- and it sounded definite and not a flimsy rumor... Anyone else remember that?
bb


I remember that. But I think it was Ethiopian Airlines.
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:13 pm

SANMAN66 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
Wasn't there some chatter last year that Emirates was going to start cargo service to SAN via MSP or something like that? Maybe these aren't the correct details but it was one of the Middle East cx, cargo-only service to SAN, via some Midwest U.S. city -- and it sounded definite and not a flimsy rumor... Anyone else remember that?
bb


I remember that. But I think it was Ethiopian Airlines.

And I think you may be right L-Man! Thanks. (So anybody seen Ethiopian showing up regularly at SAN lately in the cargo area?)

Oh well... never mind!

Can anyone verify that the AC 763 did show up last week as expected?

One final note: I see on the AS schedules, that in late May, when the airline begins their 2nd nonstop to BOS, it's showing an 11:35pm departure from SAN. Looks to me like AS is going to have lots of curfew-violation fines by the time that flight ends in mid-August! About 3 months worth; maybe they'll end up paying for the new parking structure! I might suggest someone at AAG Network Planning double check airport restrictions at SDIA... (Or maybe they're right and the curfew has been changed or withdrawn?....)

bb
 
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gollumSD
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:30 pm

Scooter wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
Hey, is the YouTuber “SANspotter” here?


Yup, I'm here! Lurking in the shadows since '99 or so. lol

I don't spend much time on a.net as much as I used to, but I'm always following the SAN threads.


I enjoy reading and watching your trip reports.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
 
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itripreport
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:49 pm

Anyone have any clue as to when exactly Delta's A330 will fly to San Diego?
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:35 am

Is there a public area where I can watch the Terminal 1 demolition or do I have to be inside T2E?
 
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LindyFlight
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:36 am

itripreport wrote:
Anyone have any clue as to when exactly Delta's A330 will fly to San Diego?

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... an%20diego
 
SANAV8R
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:51 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Is there a public area where I can watch the Terminal 1 demolition or do I have to be inside T2E?


Well you could grab a pair of binoculars and sneak on top of the Sheraton Harbor Island or maybe perch on the top of the Confidence Course ladder at MCRD for looksie. jk.

I’m sure if and when they sort the details out they will show coverage on all the local stations and UT. It’s not like it’s a Vegas hotel coming down in one big swoop.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:30 am

SANAV8R wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Is there a public area where I can watch the Terminal 1 demolition or do I have to be inside T2E?


Well you could grab a pair of binoculars and sneak on top of the Sheraton Harbor Island or maybe perch on the top of the Confidence Course ladder at MCRD for looksie. jk.

I’m sure if and when they sort the details out they will show coverage on all the local stations and UT. It’s not like it’s a Vegas hotel coming down in one big swoop.

Does Terminal 1 contain asbestos?
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:16 am

SANAV8R wrote:
maybe perch on the top of the Confidence Course ladder at MCRD for looksie.


I can guarantee that the Marines would hate that idea!
:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
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itripreport
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:41 pm

SANMAN66 wrote:
SANAV8R wrote:
maybe perch on the top of the Confidence Course ladder at MCRD for looksie.


I can guarantee that the Marines would hate that idea!
:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:


Either way we're having a huge viewing party and celebration the day demolition begins.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:04 pm

Don't set the party date for the demolition of T1 anytime soon. Even if ever t is crossed and every i is dotted, and every single person agrees, the processes involved will take a long time.

And the new Terminal 1 will have to be built first before anything can come tumbling down.

But if I can time it like I did with the Commuter Terminal, not only will I work diligently to be the last passenger to fly out of Terminal 1, but I will help throw the party to celebrate the opening of the new Terminal and tear-down of the old buildings. And we will all need to pose for a group photo at that party!!

The party will REALLY begin, however, when Terminal 2E is torn down. That windowless and crowded excuse for a facility is the worst. I'd rather be stuck in a banjo than that depressing and sterile holding facility.
 
AZTECFAN
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:11 am

Today's BA flight made two approaches and then headed up to LAX. Does anyone know why?
 
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LindyFlight
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:41 am

AZTECFAN wrote:
Today's BA flight made two approaches and then headed up to LAX. Does anyone know why?

Apparently, it was a flap issue. The crew probably thought they were safer with the longer runway at LAX (landed on 25L which is about 11,000ft).
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:46 pm

LindyFlight wrote:
AZTECFAN wrote:
Today's BA flight made two approaches and then headed up to LAX. Does anyone know why?

Apparently, it was a flap issue. The crew probably thought they were safer with the longer runway at LAX (landed on 25L which is about 11,000ft).


And probably a better chance of having the correct part available to fix quickly.

Number of 747's at SAN: 1
Number of 747's at LAX: More than one.

As much as I love flying, and as amazing as my Edelweiss Air flight ZRH-SAN was, I remember at the end of nearly twelve hours of flying how grateful I was to see SAN on approach and not LAX (and the requisite 2-3 hours of ground travel that would have been required)!! But safety is paramount, and everyone will eventually get to their destination safely.
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:09 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

And probably a better chance of having the correct part available to fix quickly.

Number of 747's at SAN: 1
Number of 747's at LAX: More than one


I wonder if BA repositioned a spare plane in SAN for the flight back to LHR, or did they cancel the flight altogether?
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:30 am

SANMAN66 wrote:
I wonder if BA repositioned a spare plane in SAN for the flight back to LHR, or did they cancel the flight altogether?


BA’s website shows 272 as cancelled for January 23.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:16 am

hawaiian717 wrote:
SANMAN66 wrote:
I wonder if BA repositioned a spare plane in SAN for the flight back to LHR, or did they cancel the flight altogether?


BA’s website shows 272 as cancelled for January 23.

Which gate is BA using now that Gate 51 is closed for construction? It is my understanding that only 2 gates in T2W and 2 gates in T2E are capable of handling a 747-400.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:48 pm

Oh the joys of a last-minute cancellation...

The cargo...the first class passengers...the business class passengers...the premium economy...

And eventually roach-coach...

Yikes.

As far as the gate closures go, I would assume that SAN Airport Authority knows that BA will be flying the 747-400, and has made sure that whichever gate is now the only 747-capable gate British Airways now has priority. They most certainly have to be aware of the operating logistics, and aren't about to mess around with an extremely heavy premium flight...but which gate is that? I can't tell anymore, as the construction keeps moving and Google Satellite View can't keep up...

Fortunately, one wide-body gate at the International Terminal might be enough. Here's the list of international arrivals at SAN on Friday, January 24, 2020:

9:48 AM JAL 66 from NRT, departs for NRT at 12:05 PM
1:11 PM LH 466 from FRA, departs for FRA at 3:07 PM (see note afterwards)
2:27 PM SW 1214 from SJD. I would imagine the plane would be cleared of bags and pax, then moved immediately to T1, and wouldn't stick around a second longer than necessary.
4:11 PM BA 273 from LHR, departs for LHR at 6:34 PM
4:31 PM AS 1019 from SJD. Towed to other Alaska gates afterwards?

And that's all I saw for flights needing FIS (Canada flight excluded, all of the currently have pre-clearance). Definitely only one wide-body at a time, all spaced out perfectly, so no overlap.

However, this oddity from Friday showed up on the list:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DLH1484/history/20200124/1747Z/EDDF/KSAN

No flight could take off from FRA seven hours behind its scheduled departure time, and still beat the earlier flight by four minutes. And there's no additional return flight to FRA. Any thoughts or explanations?
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:49 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
2:27 PM SW 1214 from SJD. I would imagine the plane would be cleared of bags and pax, then moved immediately to T1, and wouldn't stick around a second longer than necessary.


That would make the most sense to tow the WN and AS aircraft to their respective gates to free up the international gates, since all the bags, pax, and flight crews are offloaded at the int'l gates. Those 737s can be offloaded pretty fast, compared to the widebodies.
BTW, what kind of construction is going on at gate-51?
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
cheapflier
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:44 am

SANMAN66 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
2:27 PM SW 1214 from SJD. I would imagine the plane would be cleared of bags and pax, then moved immediately to T1, and wouldn't stick around a second longer than necessary.


That would make the most sense to tow the WN and AS aircraft to their respective gates to free up the international gates, since all the bags, pax, and flight crews are offloaded at the int'l gates. Those 737s can be offloaded pretty fast, compared to the widebodies.
BTW, what kind of construction is going on at gate-51?


WN tows their planes to T1, but AS usually will have a flight depart from the same gate since they're all swing gates. Really can throw off passengers who check in at T2E and have a departure from T2W.

blacksoviet wrote:
hawaiian717 wrote:
SANMAN66 wrote:
I wonder if BA repositioned a spare plane in SAN for the flight back to LHR, or did they cancel the flight altogether?


BA’s website shows 272 as cancelled for January 23.

Which gate is BA using now that Gate 51 is closed for construction? It is my understanding that only 2 gates in T2W and 2 gates in T2E are capable of handling a 747-400.


I know 50 can handle it. Maybe 49?
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:51 pm

cheapflier wrote:
SANMAN66 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
2:27 PM SW 1214 from SJD. I would imagine the plane would be cleared of bags and pax, then moved immediately to T1, and wouldn't stick around a second longer than necessary.


That would make the most sense to tow the WN and AS aircraft to their respective gates to free up the international gates, since all the bags, pax, and flight crews are offloaded at the int'l gates. Those 737s can be offloaded pretty fast, compared to the widebodies.
BTW, what kind of construction is going on at gate-51?


WN tows their planes to T1, but AS usually will have a flight depart from the same gate since they're all swing gates. Really can throw off passengers who check in at T2E and have a departure from T2W.


At least T2W and T2E are connected post security!

Looking at the logistics for this plane, AS 1018 (SAN-SJD) is operated by the plane that flies SJC-SAN in the morning, then sits at the gate for about 3½ hours (arrives at 8:30 AM, departs at 11:55 AM). That same plane (in the case of Saturday, January 25, 2020), N361VA turned around and flew to SFO.

AS 1019, SJD-SAN, on Saturday, January 25, 2020, was flown N633VA, which arrived at Gate 47. This plane, which arrived from SJD at 4:46 PM, and is sitting on the ground as I write this (8:30 AM on Sunday), departing for PVR at 10:00 AM.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n633va

Sitting at the airport, not flying for nearly 17 hours.

And it was towed from Gate 47 to Gate 21.

Is there something about international flights that requires them to be on the ground for so long? I mean, SAN isn't exactly a heavy maintenance base for anyone, so why leave a plane to not make money?

Southwest, on the other hand, has NO desire to park a plane for any length of time. Look at the schedule for today's SAN-SJD flight:

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n922wn

In from OAK, out to SJD, a quick turn around with the same plane, back to SAN, offloaded by 2:50 PM, then departing back to OAK in less than two hours. Now THAT'S getting your money's worth out of an airplane!!
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:28 am

Just ran across this article in Anna-Aero, dated 1/13/20. Link: https://www.anna.aero/2020/01/13/usas-t ... assengers/

There's a lot of SAN included in the discussion and in the list (of the top 50 unserved markets in the US.) To start off, here's part of the introduction:
Many unserved routes involve New York LGA and Washington DCA, such as San Diego – Washington DCA (PDEW of 252) and Los Angeles – New York LGA (179). But if they’re in breach of the respective perimeter rules and exemptions, they haven’t been included.

Here's another key mention in the beginning of the article:
Unserved routes include those ended in 2019.

Routes that ended sometime in 2019 are included. They are, after all, now unserved. While it may seem ‘unfair’ to include them, their traffic last year may provide better insight into potential: some stimulation would have taken place. Nine routes fall into this category, led by number-one: Raleigh Durham – San Diego. This was operated by Frontier on a three-weekly basis until it was cut in September 2019 three months after starting. Not surprisingly given its so-called “dartboard approach”, Frontier is key for those ended in 2019.

Here are the SAN entries on the list:
#.... market.....est 2019 PDEW....comments
01... SAN-RDU....162.............cut by F9 9/2019
06....SAN-CLE.....117.............cut by F9 9/2019
08....SAN-MKE....112..............cut by F9 in 2/2019; was year-round by WN, then seasonal – last served Aug. 2019
09....SAN-PIT......110..............cut by F9 in 1/2019
19....SAN-CMH.....96..............similar level to that achieved during SkyBus’ time
29....SAN-BDL......88
33....SAN-JAX.......86..............a Navy route!

A couple of comments (by me.) I notice that SAN-ORF is not on the list; I haven't seen the recent numbers (2nd half of last year) but I would be very surprised if this route were less than SAN-CLE. I'll have to check that out. In fact. ORF-LAX is on the list with a PDEW of 110; I would be shocked if SAN-ORF were not higher than that!

I'm by no means suggesting that 3 or 4 cx should jump on SAN-BDL immediately as I doubt that route with that PDEW would be ready to support regular nonstop service, nor would half of the others -- certainly not daily, prolly not year-round.

But come on AS or WN... SAN-RDU with 162 PDEW! And you're not all over that? Especially with (apparently) F9 out of the market now? I thought that's what a focus city was about.

Oh well, just thought I'd share this article with those of most interested in SAN. Please feel free to add any thoughts or comments you all out there might have.

bb
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:12 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Looking at the logistics for this plane, AS 1018 (SAN-SJD) is operated by the plane that flies SJC-SAN in the morning, then sits at the gate for about 3½ hours (arrives at 8:30 AM, departs at 11:55 AM). That same plane (in the case of Saturday, January 25, 2020), N361VA turned around and flew to SFO.

AS 1019, SJD-SAN, on Saturday, January 25, 2020, was flown N633VA, which arrived at Gate 47. This plane, which arrived from SJD at 4:46 PM, and is sitting on the ground as I write this (8:30 AM on Sunday), departing for PVR at 10:00 AM.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n633va Sitting at the airport, not flying for nearly 17 hours. And it was towed from Gate 47 to Gate 21.

Is there something about international flights that requires them to be on the ground for so long? I mean, SAN isn't exactly a heavy maintenance base for anyone, so why leave a plane to not make money?


Hey PSA', I think you may have found some irregular ops to use as your examples; I realize you tracked aircraft #s to put together your turn skeds. I think the fact that you seem to have used Saturdays might explain the misleading picture that you got. Quite a few flights simply don't op on Saturdays.

On normal days, I have found that the, let's say, Tuesday ops that involve that Cabo service from/to SAN run the following schedule:
>Flt 1184 PDX-SAN arrives at 10:28am, A320;
>Flt 1018 SAN-SJD departs at 11:55am, A320;
>Flt 1019 SJD-SAN arrives at 4:57pm, A320
>Flt 575 SAN-PDX departs at 6:30p, A320. (Note: the a/c may do something beyond PDX at night but I don't track all planes all day!

I think you will find this to be the much more normal use of that 'Bus but on Saturdays, for example, that PDX-SAN-PDX r/t (#1184 & #575) does not operate and things can be much different -- the way you found them. AS regularly keeps all int'l arrivals at SAN -- Cabo and PV -- on the ground for ~:90 minutes before turning them to continue domestically. That seems overkill to me but that's pretty much how AS seems to do it here. Also, they used to offer thru flights (same flight #) such as SJD-SAN-PDX, PVR-SAN-SEA, SFO-SAN-SJD, so the pax would maintain their seats after the layover in SAN. Now, AS has nonstops from all of those northern cities so thru flights have disappeared.

Hope I didn't just confuse things but this is the way I see turn skeds with AS. The carrier is actually pretty tight with most of their schedules and they normally keep their a/c in the air mostly, with pretty minimal ground times. Normal turns in SAN for the EMJs are 40-45 minutes, 'Buses ~:50 and Boeings are generally an hour or so.

bb
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:24 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Which gate is BA using now that Gate 51 is closed for construction? It is my understanding that only 2 gates in T2W and 2 gates in T2E are capable of handling a 747-400.


The airport website shows today's flight going from gate 50.

https://www.san.org/Flights/Flight-Status
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:53 pm

SANFan wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Looking at the logistics for this plane, AS 1018 (SAN-SJD) is operated by the plane that flies SJC-SAN in the morning, then sits at the gate for about 3½ hours (arrives at 8:30 AM, departs at 11:55 AM). That same plane (in the case of Saturday, January 25, 2020), N361VA turned around and flew to SFO.

AS 1019, SJD-SAN, on Saturday, January 25, 2020, was flown N633VA, which arrived at Gate 47. This plane, which arrived from SJD at 4:46 PM, and is sitting on the ground as I write this (8:30 AM on Sunday), departing for PVR at 10:00 AM.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n633va Sitting at the airport, not flying for nearly 17 hours. And it was towed from Gate 47 to Gate 21.

Is there something about international flights that requires them to be on the ground for so long? I mean, SAN isn't exactly a heavy maintenance base for anyone, so why leave a plane to not make money?


Hey PSA', I think you may have found some irregular ops to use as your examples; I realize you tracked aircraft #s to put together your turn skeds. I think the fact that you seem to have used Saturdays might explain the misleading picture that you got. Quite a few flights simply don't op on Saturdays.

On normal days, I have found that the, let's say, Tuesday ops that involve that Cabo service from/to SAN run the following schedule:
>Flt 1184 PDX-SAN arrives at 10:28am, A320;
>Flt 1018 SAN-SJD departs at 11:55am, A320;
>Flt 1019 SJD-SAN arrives at 4:57pm, A320
>Flt 575 SAN-PDX departs at 6:30p, A320. (Note: the a/c may do something beyond PDX at night but I don't track all planes all day!

I think you will find this to be the much more normal use of that 'Bus but on Saturdays, for example, that PDX-SAN-PDX r/t (#1184 & #575) does not operate and things can be much different -- the way you found them. AS regularly keeps all int'l arrivals at SAN -- Cabo and PV -- on the ground for ~:90 minutes before turning them to continue domestically. That seems overkill to me but that's pretty much how AS seems to do it here. Also, they used to offer thru flights (same flight #) such as SJD-SAN-PDX, PVR-SAN-SEA, SFO-SAN-SJD, so the pax would maintain their seats after the layover in SAN. Now, AS has nonstops from all of those northern cities so thru flights have disappeared.

Hope I didn't just confuse things but this is the way I see turn skeds with AS. The carrier is actually pretty tight with most of their schedules and they normally keep their a/c in the air mostly, with pretty minimal ground times. Normal turns in SAN for the EMJs are 40-45 minutes, 'Buses ~:50 and Boeings are generally an hour or so.

bb


Howdy to you!!

I agree that Friday/Saturday/Sunday isn't always the best day to use, but I was more interested in the wide-body flights, as they are the ones limited to certain gates. In doing so, I forgot the Delta ATL-SAN-ATL widebody that shows up now and then. I trust SAN to schedule enough wide-body-capable gates to handle our loads, but it has to be tight at certain times!

Is there a definitive list of our FIS-required flights at SAN? I only got a couple, but I figure the twelve trillion daily flights between SAN and SJD come and go...you know, only 11 trillion on the weekends...

Sorry, couldn't resist.
 
ibthebigd
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:56 pm

Is there much of a wait for Customs at SAN?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:08 pm

ibthebigd wrote:
Is there much of a wait for Customs at SAN?


I haven't used the new facilities, but I remember my arrival at SAN on Edelweiss Air from Zurich in July, 2017 (the old gates 21/22). We would have been through in ten minutes had we not had to wait more than an hour for our luggage. Everything else went very quickly and efficiently, but the constant starting and stopping of that luggage carousel was maddening - especially by the fifth or sixth time they started it again, with no new luggage on it.

I kind of figured they wanted us out there quick because of the incoming British Airways flight, but the luggage handlers that day must have been awfully busy...
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:54 pm

ibthebigd wrote:
Is there much of a wait for Customs at SAN?

According to everything I've seen about our new FIS, everyone is very happy with it, and the time involved in getting thru it. Last year when the AF charters arrived here, I believe LH's flight also arrived; my recollection is that at least those 2 wide bodies (and perhaps a n/b or 2 as well?) were using the new FIS at about the same time. (Can anyone confirm that?) If there were going to be complaints about long longs or waits, we prolly would have heard them at that time. Also I know that the opening of the FIS drew lots of media and many times I remember lots of their talk was spent on how much space and how many facilities there were to handle large numbers of arriving pax.


SANFan wrote:
Here are the SAN entries on the list:
#.... market.....est 2019 PDEW....comments
01... SAN-RDU....162.............cut by F9 9/2019
06....SAN-CLE.....117.............cut by F9 9/2019
08....SAN-MKE....112..............cut by F9 in 2/2019; was year-round by WN, then seasonal – last served Aug. 2019
09....SAN-PIT......110..............cut by F9 in 1/2019
19....SAN-CMH.....96..............similar level to that achieved during SkyBus’ time
29....SAN-BDL......88
33....SAN-JAX.......86..............a Navy route!

I notice that SAN-ORF is not on the list; I haven't seen the recent numbers (2nd half of last year) but I would be very surprised if this route were less than SAN-CLE. I'll have to check that out. In fact. ORF-LAX is on the list with a PDEW of 110; I would be shocked if SAN-ORF were not higher than that!


I'm going to respond after checking the ORF issue as I said I would. I assume SAN-ORF was not on the list since technically the route IS served currently by WN; mind you it's once a week for a about 2 months in the peak summer sked only. I will clarify that it was served in 2019 and is currently on the skeds for summer 2020 (subject to change of course.) I guess Anna-Aero considers that adequate service to confirm that the route is served and is not eligible to be placed on the list.

Finally, I can report that for 3Q2018, the DOT showed a PDEW of 165 for SAN-ORF. This is the last report of DOT's Tables 1a & 6 I have analyzed. If I have the time to look at more recent reports by the DOT, I'll report back here.

bb
 
cheapflier
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:11 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Is there something about international flights that requires them to be on the ground for so long? I mean, SAN isn't exactly a heavy maintenance base for anyone, so why leave a plane to not make money?

The 90 minutes mentioned above seems reasonable for a regular week. The planes undergo a check by CBP. Some are more stringent than others depending on any intel or random inspections, so AS schedules an extra 40-45 minutes in a turn. CBP is certainly aware that airlines keep a schedule, but they're not afraid to delay a flight either. By comparison, AC, which is pre-cleared, schedules an hour turn for a similarly sized aircraft, but this is more common for AC.

WN is about 1 hr 45 turn time for international flights compared to about 40 for an average flight, but they must tow all flights to T1.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:57 pm

cheapflier wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Is there something about international flights that requires them to be on the ground for so long? I mean, SAN isn't exactly a heavy maintenance base for anyone, so why leave a plane to not make money?

The 90 minutes mentioned above seems reasonable for a regular week. The planes undergo a check by CBP. Some are more stringent than others depending on any intel or random inspections, so AS schedules an extra 40-45 minutes in a turn. CBP is certainly aware that airlines keep a schedule, but they're not afraid to delay a flight either. By comparison, AC, which is pre-cleared, schedules an hour turn for a similarly sized aircraft, but this is more common for AC.

WN is about 1 hr 45 turn time for international flights compared to about 40 for an average flight, but they must tow all flights to T1.


Except it wasn't 90 minutes for the Alaska Air flights. It was 3.5 hours on the way to PVR and nearly a day after. I'm going to trust the airlines to do what is lawful, but that seems excessively long for a "turnaround". And none of the foreign airlines are here that long, nor does Southwest take extra time.

Unique to AS...
 
AAtakeMeAway
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:33 pm

Sitting here in the Airspace Lounge at the airport that started my obsession with commercial aviation as a kid with their “Flight Times and News of the Port” wondering where DL was prior to T2W. Can you refresh my memory? Thanks!

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