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SANMAN66
Posts: 969
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:37 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:36 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
The Union-Tribune told me, in so many words, to get the you-know-what out of here, as I have "reached my limit of articles". That number, by the way, seems to be zero, as I haven't been on their website this year...


Same here!
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
vedatil4
Posts: 127
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:49 pm

SANMAN66 wrote:
TIJ and SAN reminds me much like OAK and SFO. OAK has very limited int'l flights, but it is a WN focus city, with flights everywhere in the U.S. just like TIJ is a Volaris hub, (SFO has limited WN service, with all int'l service in the area.) Basically, you can't beat Volaris with so many Mexican destinations from TIJ, just like OAK with so many domestic destinations on WN. If pax wanted to fly int'l, they simply go to SFO and SAN. I'll bet it is a lot cheaper to fly WN out of OAK than it is out of SFO, just like it's cheaper to fly Volaris from TIJ.


The problem I experienced with WN at SFO once is they're last dibs on using the runway for takeoff. Can fees the airlines pay for using the airport be cheaper when the flight is super low priority for using the runway? We were being pushed aside repeatedly by United. The flight was 3 hours late getting back to San Diego.

Is this something that happens at other airports? It seems like some airports are home turf for an airline and any interlopers will get neglected. Examples: American at Dallas or United at Newark.

As for Volaris in TIJ, the sweet times of scoring supercheap flights appear to be over. They went from being like Southwest to being like Spirit last month. They charge for everything now. The one fee that is evil is charging almost $20usd if you didn't select paying with pesos at the very beginning of the webpage. They also bump people sometimes even after paying for seat assignments.

Is something similar happening at SAN? I'm scared to death of selecting basic economy now. That seems like glorified standby. I always pay for seat assignment. But at Volaris even that doesn't guarantee you won't be kicked off because the flight was oversold.

The last time I flew Delta back from Atlanta they changed my seat assignment last minute. So they resold something I had already paid for (grr).
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
Posts: 1102
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:38 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 29, 2020 5:58 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
As for Volaris in TIJ, the sweet times of scoring supercheap flights appear to be over. They went from being like Southwest to being like Spirit last month. They charge for everything now. The one fee that is evil is charging almost $20usd if you didn't select paying with pesos at the very beginning of the webpage. They also bump people sometimes even after paying for seat assignments.

Is something similar happening at SAN? I'm scared to death of selecting basic economy now. That seems like glorified standby. I always pay for seat assignment. But at Volaris even that doesn't guarantee you won't be kicked off because the flight was oversold.

The last time I flew Delta back from Atlanta they changed my seat assignment last minute. So they resold something I had already paid for (grr).


Basic economy on any airline without a seat assignment guaranteed or ANY aspect left in doubt until "check-in" is a horrifying thought to me. As such, for our upcoming TIJ-PVR trip in April, we're flying the top level on Volaris, including a checked bag and advanced seat assignments. It was still $250 per person (including CBSX passes), as opposed to AS wanting $400 from SAN, which had no checked bags.

There are certain things I pay retail for, and piece of mind like this is one of them.
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:03 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
vedatil4 wrote:
As for Volaris in TIJ, the sweet times of scoring supercheap flights appear to be over. They went from being like Southwest to being like Spirit last month. They charge for everything now. The one fee that is evil is charging almost $20usd if you didn't select paying with pesos at the very beginning of the webpage. They also bump people sometimes even after paying for seat assignments.

Is something similar happening at SAN? I'm scared to death of selecting basic economy now. That seems like glorified standby. I always pay for seat assignment. But at Volaris even that doesn't guarantee you won't be kicked off because the flight was oversold.

The last time I flew Delta back from Atlanta they changed my seat assignment last minute. So they resold something I had already paid for (grr).


Basic economy on any airline without a seat assignment guaranteed or ANY aspect left in doubt until "check-in" is a horrifying thought to me. As such, for our upcoming TIJ-PVR trip in April, we're flying the top level on Volaris, including a checked bag and advanced seat assignments. It was still $250 per person (including CBSX passes), as opposed to AS wanting $400 from SAN, which had no checked bags.

There are certain things I pay retail for, and piece of mind like this is one of them.


If you're traveling between April 3-12, I suggest also showing up waaaaay early to the flight. It's very likely those dates are very overbooked and they start telling people the flight is closed 1-1/2 hours before flight time. All of Mexico seems to go on vacation during that week. It was a solid decision to pay extra for piece of mind.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:51 am

vedatil4 wrote:
I'm scared to death of selecting basic economy now. That seems like glorified standby.


I like that comparison. Permission to steal it?
 
vedatil4
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:38 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:10 am

Yes, of course. I also call it "steerage class" like in the movie Titanic. One less level and they'll have us pitching in on parts and pushing the plane.

I should recommend a movie about aviation called "Airplaneski" to everyone. Great aviation stories. It's on youtube.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:21 am

Interesting word. For two centuries it was meant the portion of the ship where the steering apparatus was located, in 1804 it was first used to mean "section of a ship with the cheapest accommodations," and eventually lost any direct reference to the steering apparatus. The word has no relationship to steer as an oxen, although that is what you feel like when you are seated in steerage class.

vedatil4 wrote:
If you're traveling between April 3-12, I suggest also showing up waaaaay early to the flight. It's very likely those dates are very overbooked and they start telling people the flight is closed 1-1/2 hours before flight time. All of Mexico seems to go on vacation during that week. It was a solid decision to pay extra for piece of mind.


That actually happened to me in Zacatecas Mexico. We showed up nearly an hour before our flight to Tijuana, and they said "sorry, the flight is full". I tried to explain to the man at the counter that it is customary to bribe passengers to voluntarily stay behind when you are overbooked, but he said that they used to do that but it got too expensive.

This trip was pre-Volaris, so while today Volaris flies from ZCL to Chicago–Midway, Dallas/Fort Worth (begins April 3, 2020), Los Angeles, San Jose (CA), and Tijuana at that time there was only one flight to Tijuana and a bunch of AeroMexico flight to Mexico City.

So listen to vedatil4!
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:22 pm

With regards to our flight, it is April 22-26. Definitely post spring break, and we are timing it to meet up with friends who are on a cruise that stops there on Friday, April 24th. HUGE reduction is cost for rooms, and airfare was lower. But we will definitely be pre-printing our tourist cards and getting there VERY early anyway, just to be sure.

As to why I don't like "no-frills" airlines, here's a freakishly accurate prediction of the future:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2S7uKm_OJ8
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:16 pm

I was able to visit a friend's workplace in the building on Broadway between Front & First streets, on the south side. We were looking east out one window, when we saw Saturday's British Airways 747-400 arriving. We rushed to a north facing office and I managed to get a downtown-view of the landing at SAN:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIP8qWPz64E&t=0s
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:45 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
I was able to visit a friend's workplace in the building on Broadway between Front & First streets, on the south side. We were looking east out one window, when we saw Saturday's British Airways 747-400 arriving. We rushed to a north facing office and I managed to get a downtown-view of the landing at SAN:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIP8qWPz64E&t=0s

Nice vid of "the Queen" approaching and landing at SDIA, PSA'. Thanks much for sharing it.

I wanted to mention that on the OAG thread this morning, Enilria posted a bunch of AS sked changes for this fall. Among them were some for SAN: effective Sept 9, AS is adding a second MRY trip, 2 more SJC flights (taking AS to 8 daily r/t, the same number as SFO) and SMF is getting a 4th frequency. All these new trips are on EMJs and it's a bit hard to tell yet how long the increases will last but they could very well be permanent. Also, SAN-FAT is continuing to see 4 daily r/t thru at least the end of the year! (The one reduction posted is that BOI seems to be going back to a single daily r/t.) Nice stuff from AS, especially considering this is all taking place in the fall.

bb
 
san88
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:30 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:00 am

vedatil4 wrote:
SANMAN66 wrote:
TIJ and SAN reminds me much like OAK and SFO. OAK has very limited int'l flights, but it is a WN focus city, with flights everywhere in the U.S. just like TIJ is a Volaris hub, (SFO has limited WN service, with all int'l service in the area.) Basically, you can't beat Volaris with so many Mexican destinations from TIJ, just like OAK with so many domestic destinations on WN. If pax wanted to fly int'l, they simply go to SFO and SAN. I'll bet it is a lot cheaper to fly WN out of OAK than it is out of SFO, just like it's cheaper to fly Volaris from TIJ.


The problem I experienced with WN at SFO once is they're last dibs on using the runway for takeoff. Can fees the airlines pay for using the airport be cheaper when the flight is super low priority for using the runway? We were being pushed aside repeatedly by United. The flight was 3 hours late getting back to San Diego.

Is this something that happens at other airports? It seems like some airports are home turf for an airline and any interlopers will get neglected. Examples: American at Dallas or United at Newark. (grr).


Ground control dictates ground traffic. Pushed first, you get first dibs usually for departure, but also keep in mind terminal configuration @ SFO. SWA pushes back into traffic holding for 1L departures, so sometimes you gotta wait your turn or room to get in line. ATC is super complex, SFO is the king of ground delay programs averaging 50 mins or more delays. SAN / LAX also has arrival flow ATC delays (airspace and runway) during peak times. It is common to be delayed in SFO due to their GDP; then delayed even more for flow control into SoCal, parked on the side awaiting a wheels up time.
sit on the Captain side when you fly into SAN
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:10 pm

San88: Thanks for explaining why Southwest can get delayed at SFO. As a passenger accustomed to having to pay extra for everything nowadays, I figured airlines themselves have to pay extra not to be pushed aside by the main carrier at an airport. It's a relief that's not happening.
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:23 pm

Question for everyone: Have there ever been official, intermodal airline tickets to/from San Diego?

Let me explain intermodal; for example, let's say I wanted to fly from San Diego to Auckland. The airline would have a bus pickup somewhere to take all of the San Diego passengers to LAX to catch the LAX to AKL flight. By "official" I mean I would go to an airline's website, they'd sell me a San Diego to Auckland ticket but would point out that from San Diego to LAX the segment is on a bus. This would be similar to getting Amtrak train tickets to San Francisco knowing a segment will be covered by a bus service.

I've only overheard anecdotal stories for going to the Phillipines or Turkey. Can someone confirm or explain if this is an airline thing or just a private shuttle company taking passengers to LAX?

I bring this up because I read an article about Iberia starting Madrid flights to Queretaro. Most of the people will have buses waiting to take them to Mexico City or Puebla after they land. It made me wonder if we've had, have, or could ever have something similar here.

Why couldn't a translatlantic flight land in Ontario, for example, then have buses take people to San Diego, Fresno, or Riverside? I'd rather deal with that bus ride on the i-15 than the 405 from LAX to get back home.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:32 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
I've only overheard anecdotal stories for going to the Phillipines or Turkey. Can someone confirm or explain if this is an airline thing or just a private shuttle company taking passengers to LAX?


The service I'm aware of is the Asiana shuttle. You have to have a ticket on OZ201 LAX-ICN or OZ202 ICN-LAX and an advance reservation through the site, though there is no charge for the shuttle other than the driver's tip.

http://www.shuttle380.com/

I think at present there's enough air service SAN-LAX covering all three alliances that it's not really necessary to set up a ground-based conneciton.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:58 am

It's important that LAX pax originating or terminating in San Diego get recorded as such so I like to think that at least a healthy number of such travelers fly between SAN and LAX on AA, DL or UA, or take buses provided such as OZ offers. Those who take independent surface transportation or even those who may purchase separate (local) tix to fly SAN-LAX could be lost from accurate counts of the number of San Diegans traveling to particular destinations -- be they domestic of foreign. I suppose the same concepts apply for travel via TIJ. We all are aware that there is a large leakage problem from SAN due to the presence of these 2 important nearby airports

Obviously, the more San Diegans who travel to particular places that the cx are aware of, the better chance we have of seeing our own nonstop service to those places. I have heard that the airlines that fly from LAX, and I suppose TIJ, know precisely how many of their paying customers are from the San Diego area. International I can see but domestic -- I don't know. If in fact the cx do have that data available, do they pay any attention to it? Does it really help the cause of improving SAN's air service? I assume SDIA has that sort of data as well.

The cases of SAN travel to the Philippines and Cancun come to mind. I've heard that PR thinks that SAN is just a big suburb of LA so why should they bother opening another station 100 miles south of probably their largest U.S. gateway? Are they aware of how many of their pax actually originate their trips "home" from San Diego County? Have they stopped to consider that if they provided a PR departure from SAN on certain days a week, it would open more seats to sell to their huge LA business? (I wouldn't be surprised if BA went through this same thought process and that's why they were anxious to get to SAN and offer us our own service -- and tried to provide it on 3 separate occasions.) PR must know how many pax fly other cx such as JL between SAN and MNL as well. And, they know about the buses between here and LA even if they don't provide them.

And it was discussed earlier this year or maybe late in 2019 that SAN-CUN is, I believe, one of the largest unserved Cancun-U.S. markets (because of leakage thru TIJ and perhaps LA as well.) I guess the cx know how many folks originate trips there from SAN but the much lower fares available thru TIJ (for domestic pax) keep any U.S. cx from wanting to try the service.

In any case, I guess I have to hope that the airlines will continue to study their available data and note where their pax actually start their journeys. I'm sure in some cases this is why we do see new routes here, and hopefully will see more in the future.

bb
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:14 pm

I can think of a couple of potential sources of data on San Diego residents using LAX or other airports as their originating point. One would be the credit card billing address, for those passengers who book direct. The other would be the address on file for frequent flyer program members. I don’t know where SDIA would get that information.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:34 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
Question for everyone: Have there ever been official, intermodal airline tickets to/from San Diego?

Let me explain intermodal; for example, let's say I wanted to fly from San Diego to Auckland. The airline would have a bus pickup somewhere to take all of the San Diego passengers to LAX to catch the LAX to AKL flight. By "official" I mean I would go to an airline's website, they'd sell me a San Diego to Auckland ticket but would point out that from San Diego to LAX the segment is on a bus. This would be similar to getting Amtrak train tickets to San Francisco knowing a segment will be covered by a bus service.

I've only overheard anecdotal stories for going to the Phillipines or Turkey. Can someone confirm or explain if this is an airline thing or just a private shuttle company taking passengers to LAX?

I bring this up because I read an article about Iberia starting Madrid flights to Queretaro. Most of the people will have buses waiting to take them to Mexico City or Puebla after they land. It made me wonder if we've had, have, or could ever have something similar here.

Why couldn't a translatlantic flight land in Ontario, for example, then have buses take people to San Diego, Fresno, or Riverside? I'd rather deal with that bus ride on the i-15 than the 405 from LAX to get back home.


AeroMexico has had bus service, ironically enough, from Los Angeles to Tijuana airport, and now the CBX.

Many of my Filipino students at my school have used the PAL bus service to/from LAX. When every penny counts, this service ends up being the most convenient and cost effective; however, it is only for those passengers and not others headed to LAX.

Bakersfield has had an on again/off again LAX bus service, but even that has been hit or miss in past years.

Remember, however, with all the suggestions about, "why doesn't airline X just fly to Ontario?": where's the premium demand coming from? Ontario? No. One MUST chase the premium demand; otherwise you'll be flying full planes of low-fare passengers.
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:54 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
vedatil4 wrote:
Question for everyone: Have there ever been official, intermodal airline tickets to/from San Diego?

Let me explain intermodal; for example, let's say I wanted to fly from San Diego to Auckland. The airline would have a bus pickup somewhere to take all of the San Diego passengers to LAX to catch the LAX to AKL flight. By "official" I mean I would go to an airline's website, they'd sell me a San Diego to Auckland ticket but would point out that from San Diego to LAX the segment is on a bus. This would be similar to getting Amtrak train tickets to San Francisco knowing a segment will be covered by a bus service.

I've only overheard anecdotal stories for going to the Phillipines or Turkey. Can someone confirm or explain if this is an airline thing or just a private shuttle company taking passengers to LAX?

I bring this up because I read an article about Iberia starting Madrid flights to Queretaro. Most of the people will have buses waiting to take them to Mexico City or Puebla after they land. It made me wonder if we've had, have, or could ever have something similar here.

Why couldn't a translatlantic flight land in Ontario, for example, then have buses take people to San Diego, Fresno, or Riverside? I'd rather deal with that bus ride on the i-15 than the 405 from LAX to get back home.


AeroMexico has had bus service, ironically enough, from Los Angeles to Tijuana airport, and now the CBX.

Many of my Filipino students at my school have used the PAL bus service to/from LAX. When every penny counts, this service ends up being the most convenient and cost effective; however, it is only for those passengers and not others headed to LAX.

Bakersfield has had an on again/off again LAX bus service, but even that has been hit or miss in past years.

Remember, however, with all the suggestions about, "why doesn't airline X just fly to Ontario?": where's the premium demand coming from? Ontario? No. One MUST chase the premium demand; otherwise you'll be flying full planes of low-fare passengers.


True, airlines must go where the premium passengers are. I just wish LAX wasn't such a nightmare to drive to from San Diego. I can live with a drive up the 15 much better.

I mentioned Ontario because Frontier Airlines recently announced new flights from there to many destinations in the US and to Guatemala and El Salvador. China Airlines operates a flight to Taipei from there too. Maybe they'll have more international flights in the future?
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:44 am

Instead of Miramar, can a Temecula airport serve as a reliever airport for SAN, with some international flights moving there? Temecula isn’t that far and traffic on the 15 isn’t as bad.

Everybody says that Brown Field and Gillespie Field are out of the question because of terrain. Montgomery Field could work in theory but the terminal would only be big enough for about one or two gates, meaning that only about one or two airlines could operate there. I think Montgomery Field would work well for turboprop service.
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:37 am

Byrdluvs747 wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:

BTW, I highly recommend taking a Volaris flight from Tijuana to Zacatecas. They have the coolest hotel fashioned from an old bull ring. It's probably the most unique hotel in the world where you can get a room for as little as $100 a night.


PacoMartin, thanks for posting that. I like staying in interesting hotels, so I added to my list.

BTW, is that a real pic of you?


If you're thinking of making any trips in Mexico, Volaris is running one of their killer specials right now 'til Friday. I scored two roundtrip tickets to Puebla, over Cesar Chavez weekend, 1 bag, 1-carry-on, and seat assignments for $259 total. ;-) You can pretty much go anywhere in the country for less than $200 from now 'til March of next year.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:43 am

Why does AA fly the old USAir 757s between PHX and SAN sometimes? These planes have too much range for this flight.
 
Byrdluvs747
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:36 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Why does AA fly the old USAir 757s between PHX and SAN sometimes? These planes have too much range for this flight.


Because they can fill a 757 on this route with pax looking for one of three things, Sea World, the Sandiego Zoo, and the beaches. Especially in the summer, there are usually tons of Arizonans in San Diego doing weekend(extended) trips to enjoy the cooler weather. As someone who lived in PHX for 30 years, I can recall many flights on 757s/A21s packed with AZ weekenders/vacationers looking forward to the ocean.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
ibthebigd
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:25 pm

Delta does flights like that all the time.

Plus it gets more usage out of a plane.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:47 pm

Byrdluvs747 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Why does AA fly the old USAir 757s between PHX and SAN sometimes? These planes have too much range for this flight.

Because they can fill a 757 on this route with pax looking for one of three things, Sea World, the Sandiego Zoo, and the beaches. Especially in the summer, there are usually tons of Arizonans in San Diego doing weekend(extended) trips to enjoy the cooler weather. As someone who lived in PHX for 30 years, I can recall many flights on 757s/A21s packed with AZ weekenders/vacationers looking forward to the ocean.

I remember when US flew a 757 at, say, 6:30am from SAN to PHX, then :05 or :10 later, a second flight (an A320?) would follow it over the desert to Arizona -- awesome! (Maybe AA continues that schedule these days?)

There certainly is a LOT of traffic, both local and connecting between the 2 cities. Yep, AZ has the sand but is missing the water that SAN provides!

bb
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:18 pm

Memorial Day through Labor Day has traditionally been known in San Diego as "Zonie Season", when all the Arizonans flee the scorching heat of the Sonora Desert and flee to San Diego, where the temperature ranges from 50 to 60 degrees cooler. Arizona license plates become ubiquitous, and they end up paying for a significant portion of our infrastructure through the hotel taxes and such. And almost without exception, they're fabulous people.

But they also fly. USAirways filled their 757's to capacity, day after day, year after year during this season, and Southwest picked up the rest. And there were ALWAYS two flights in the morning, both leaving with five minutes or so of each other. And it's not just capacity we're talking here either - it's yields.

https://flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=KSAN&destination=KPHX

A peek at Thursday's SAN-PHX flights shows that the two-flights-right-next-to-each-other set up isn't here - yet. We'll have to see what they schedule for late May...
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:34 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Memorial Day through Labor Day has traditionally been known in San Diego as "Zonie Season", when all the Arizonans flee the scorching heat of the Sonora Desert and flee to San Diego, where the temperature ranges from 50 to 60 degrees cooler. Arizona license plates become ubiquitous, and they end up paying for a significant portion of our infrastructure through the hotel taxes and such. And almost without exception, they're fabulous people.

But they also fly. USAirways filled their 757's to capacity, day after day, year after year during this season, and Southwest picked up the rest. And there were ALWAYS two flights in the morning, both leaving with five minutes or so of each other. And it's not just capacity we're talking here either - it's yields.

https://flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=KSAN&destination=KPHX

A peek at Thursday's SAN-PHX flights shows that the two-flights-right-next-to-each-other set up isn't here - yet. We'll have to see what they schedule for late May...


A lot of Californians are also fleeing to Phoenix or Vegas nowadays. As soon as the thermometer goes up over there, they come back to town in droves. I'm sure the hotels here are just salivating waiting to gouge them after Memorial Day.

The distance to Phoenix or Vegas probably should be covered by high-speed rail somehow instead of flights. I was recently on the Madrid to Barcelona bullet train which is a 621km (385mi) journey. A quick check shows me 571km (354mi) to Phoenix or 532km (331mi) to Vegas from San Diego. But I know the environmental and political hurdles alone are tremendous compared to the technical challenges. Supercool things like that can be built in China or Dubai because opposition is practically zilch there.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:17 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Memorial Day through Labor Day has traditionally been known in San Diego as "Zonie Season", when all the Arizonans flee the scorching heat of the Sonora Desert and flee to San Diego, where the temperature ranges from 50 to 60 degrees cooler. Arizona license plates become ubiquitous, and they end up paying for a significant portion of our infrastructure through the hotel taxes and such. And almost without exception, they're fabulous people.

But they also fly. USAirways filled their 757's to capacity, day after day, year after year during this season, and Southwest picked up the rest. And there were ALWAYS two flights in the morning, both leaving with five minutes or so of each other. And it's not just capacity we're talking here either - it's yields.

https://flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=KSAN&destination=KPHX

A peek at Thursday's SAN-PHX flights shows that the two-flights-right-next-to-each-other set up isn't here - yet. We'll have to see what they schedule for late May...


A lot of Californians are also fleeing to Phoenix or Vegas nowadays. As soon as the thermometer goes up over there, they come back to town in droves. I'm sure the hotels here are just salivating waiting to gouge them after Memorial Day.

The distance to Phoenix or Vegas probably should be covered by high-speed rail somehow instead of flights. I was recently on the Madrid to Barcelona bullet train which is a 621km (385mi) journey. A quick check shows me 571km (354mi) to Phoenix or 532km (331mi) to Vegas from San Diego. But I know the environmental and political hurdles alone are tremendous compared to the technical challenges. Supercool things like that can be built in China or Dubai because opposition is practically zilch there.


The physical geography of the Sonora and Mojave deserts prevents high-speed rail from happening. Heck, even the U.S. Navy's insistence on a direct rail from the east into San Diego had to be route through Mexico from Tecate to Tijuana - ironically enough, it remains the one part of the line still in use, for Tecate beer to be shipped to Tijuana for further distribution. And if high-speed rail proved too expensive in the Central Valley, which is nearly as flat as possible, trying to get it built through the Tejon Pass or over the mountains to Arizona would cost an amount that would not be recouped in a hundred years.

For the forseeable future, it will be cars or planes taking people from the desert cities to the Southern California coast. We can dream about high speed trains all we want, but they won't happen. Not here. The physical challenges are simply too much. And the distances between our cities simply do not lend themselves to this - we're just too spread out here, and rail lines depend on intermediate stops for maximum revenue. Sad fact of life is that a 2-3 hour plane flight from Denver and points eastward will outweigh high-speed rail lines everytime.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:25 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
A peek at Thursday's SAN-PHX flights shows that the two-flights-right-next-to-each-other set up isn't here - yet. We'll have to see what they schedule for late May...


Found a 2005 thread on FlyerTalk about these. America West did them a lot from SAN, LAX, and LAS to PHX. Had to do with the volume of passengers and timing to make the hub banks at PHX. I wonder if these sorts of flights are less common now since the merger with AA adds other viable hubs for serving the west (LAX and DFW), as opposed to funneling so many passengers through PHX. They were called wingtip or dual-ops flights.

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/america ... ent-c.html
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:47 pm

hawaiian717 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
A peek at Thursday's SAN-PHX flights shows that the two-flights-right-next-to-each-other set up isn't here - yet. We'll have to see what they schedule for late May...


Found a 2005 thread on FlyerTalk about these. America West did them a lot from SAN, LAX, and LAS to PHX. Had to do with the volume of passengers and timing to make the hub banks at PHX. I wonder if these sorts of flights are less common now since the merger with AA adds other viable hubs for serving the west (LAX and DFW), as opposed to funneling so many passengers through PHX. They were called wingtip or dual-ops flights.

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/america ... ent-c.html


Thanks for sharing! Fascinating that it is still going like that...

I flew SAN-PHX-MSP-PHX-SAN in the summer of 2011, and the return connection at PHX looked like the family section of a Papal mass. Honestly, I have never seen so many families getting ready for a vacation in my life - and that includes the Disneyland parking lot as well! As I had been upgraded to first class, I got to board first; however, navigating around the insane number of families and their "stuff" was a real reminder of just how busy the Arizona - San Diego route is.

It's also fascinating how short a flight this is if both airports are landing to the west...
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:34 pm

It looks like some domestic and certainly int'l flights are being cancelled/suspended due to the Corona virus outbreak. I haven't yet come across any SAN flights that have been affected.

Please though, if anyone does see or hear about any cuts to our skeds in SAN, it would be great to note them here just so we can keep track.

bb
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:50 am

hawaiian717 wrote:
I can think of a couple of potential sources of data on San Diego residents using LAX or other airports as their originating point. One would be the credit card billing address, for those passengers who book direct. The other would be the address on file for frequent flyer program members. I don’t know where SDIA would get that information.


Airport Leakage Studies go back a half a century when the only MIDT data (Marketing Information Data Tapes) or basically the zip codes of travel agenicies.

Today most simple studies use purchasing zip codes.

As you pointed out, this technique still has drawbacks:
1) most low-cost and ultra-low-cost carriers are excluded,
2) they do not contain bookings made directly through an airline’s web site, and
3) transactions from certain credit cards types might not be part of the data.

New solutions on the market from multiple vendors now offer internet browsing-based data that can answer these questions and more, including estimates for direct bookings to airline web site webs.

Airline Data Inc sells a product called, Airport Catchment Analytics, which takes this internet browsing data approach one step farther. They combine commonly-available internet browsing-based data with Hospitality Industry information and our own adjusted DOT flown data. This provides airports with an innovative approach to both outbound and inbound leakage analyses that fills in the gaps without the need for intensive adjustments. Whether it’s traditional outbound leakage insights, quantifying inbound leakage, or better understanding the impact of passenger leakage on low-fare / ultra-low-fare carriers, adjusted internet browsing-based data sets are blazing new frontiers, and the possible applications to leakage analyses are endless.
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 3:16 pm

SANFan wrote:
It looks like some domestic and certainly int'l flights are being cancelled/suspended due to the Corona virus outbreak. I haven't yet come across any SAN flights that have been affected


I was going to check and see if the JL flight from NRT was affected in any way, but I'm glad the coronavirus has not affected the SAN flights as of yet. I know the airlines are hurting because of the outbreak, since people don't want to travel.
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
njdevilsin03
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:12 pm

I’m looking at flights end of September and the non stop FLL-SAN flight isn’t showing up... is it going away or is it just not loaded yet?
717, 727, 731, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 752, 753, 762, 763, 777, DC9, MD80, DC10, L1011, ERJ, CRJ, ATR, DH8, A300,
 
cheapflier
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:42 pm

SANFan wrote:
It looks like some domestic and certainly int'l flights are being cancelled/suspended due to the Corona virus outbreak. I haven't yet come across any SAN flights that have been affected.

Please though, if anyone does see or hear about any cuts to our skeds in SAN, it would be great to note them here just so we can keep track.

bb

SY says they're reducing service to San Diego through the summer. Looks like MSP drops from about 6x weekly to 3x for a bit. SJD also suspended from 4/12-6/3. Not sure what it was like before the announcement.
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:04 pm

cheapflier wrote:
SY says they're reducing service to San Diego through the summer. Looks like MSP drops from about 6x weekly to 3x for a bit. SJD also suspended from 4/12-6/3. Not sure what it was like before the announcement.


SJD on SY is seasonal, it could be that AS and WN
are on the same route and SJD is oversaturated.
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:02 am

cheapflier wrote:
SANFan wrote:
It looks like some domestic and certainly int'l flights are being cancelled/suspended due to the Corona virus outbreak. I haven't yet come across any SAN flights that have been affected.

Please though, if anyone does see or hear about any cuts to our skeds in SAN, it would be great to note them here just so we can keep track.
bb

SY says they're reducing service to San Diego through the summer. Looks like MSP drops from about 6x weekly to 3x for a bit. SJD also suspended from 4/12-6/3. Not sure what it was like before the announcement.

In 2018 when SY started flying SAN-Cabo, the flight started on 6/29 and last year it began on 6/20; both years it ran 'all the way' into mid-August, about 2 months or less. So if it's going to start on June 3 this summer, that's actually a real improvement! SY has never op'd the flight other than the very peak summer season and never in the Spring. But I do admit that I had not looked at SY's summer 2020 sked for SAN -- if it was even out yet...

I've seen elsewhere that they're cutting PDX routes this summer so it may be a system-wide trimming.

bb
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:08 pm

SANMAN66 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
It looks like some domestic and certainly int'l flights are being cancelled/suspended due to the Corona virus outbreak. I haven't yet come across any SAN flights that have been affected


I was going to check and see if the JL flight from NRT was affected in any way, but I'm glad the coronavirus has not affected the SAN flights as of yet. I know the airlines are hurting because of the outbreak, since people don't want to travel.


About an hour after I posted this, I saw the JL flight from NRT pass overhead. I don't know what the yields are like due to the coronavirus.
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:24 pm

SANMAN66 wrote:
About an hour after I posted this, I saw the JL flight from NRT pass overhead. I don't know what the yields are like due to the coronavirus.

I've been wondering if the military is cutting non-essential travel, such as between SAN and MNL and Japan? I haven't seen that reported on the news anywhere.

I also wonder if the Olympics are cancelled or postponed, will that affect our JL flight?

By the way, in a non-related topic, I just noticed that AA is still offering SAN-JFK in June but it's a freakin' redeye e/b! I don't know how long that's been going on but I do believe with all the nonsense going on at AA with our oldest transcons nonstop, it has never been a red-eye only; we've always had the morning departure from SAN with an evening return. We have seen redeyes on the route from AA but only as a 2nd frequency. But of course I'll accept the redeye as the only flight offered as opposed to the alternative which we sometimes see lately...

I sure hope AA getting cozier with AS will help undo some of the crummy stuff AA has been doing in SAN recently -- including back when DCA was moved to LAX... IMO, AS remains very keen on SAN and growing their op's here; I certainly can't say the same for AA.

bb
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:14 am

SANFan wrote:
I sure hope AA getting cozier with AS will help undo some of the crummy stuff AA has been doing in SAN recently -- including back when DCA was moved to LAX... IMO, AS remains very keen on SAN and growing their op's here; I certainly can't say the same for AA.

bb


Since AS has joined Oneworld, perhaps AS can feed our international flights better. I still look at the good stuff AA has done in the past such as the JV, if there were no joint venture, JL and BA would not be common sight in San Diego skies. When the DCA flight was moved to LAX, I tend to look at USAirway's doing. And I pose another question: what if the SAN-DCA got dropped because of low yields? BTW, I held little grudge against USAirways, because when they were USAir, they swallowed up PSA, I was kind of glad AA swallowed up USAirways.
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:38 am

SANMAN66 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
I sure hope AA getting cozier with AS will help undo some of the crummy stuff AA has been doing in SAN recently -- including back when DCA was moved to LAX... IMO, AS remains very keen on SAN and growing their op's here; I certainly can't say the same for AA.

bb


Since AS has joined Oneworld, perhaps AS can feed our international flights better. I still look at the good stuff AA has done in the past such as the JV, if there were no joint venture, JL and BA would not be common sight in San Diego skies. When the DCA flight was moved to LAX, I tend to look at USAirway's doing. And I pose another question: what if the SAN-DCA got dropped because of low yields? BTW, I held little grudge against USAirways, because when they were USAir, they swallowed up PSA, I was kind of glad AA swallowed up USAirways.

What kind of equipment did they use on the DCA flight?
 
san747
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:44 am

blacksoviet wrote:
SANMAN66 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
I sure hope AA getting cozier with AS will help undo some of the crummy stuff AA has been doing in SAN recently -- including back when DCA was moved to LAX... IMO, AS remains very keen on SAN and growing their op's here; I certainly can't say the same for AA.

bb


Since AS has joined Oneworld, perhaps AS can feed our international flights better. I still look at the good stuff AA has done in the past such as the JV, if there were no joint venture, JL and BA would not be common sight in San Diego skies. When the DCA flight was moved to LAX, I tend to look at USAirway's doing. And I pose another question: what if the SAN-DCA got dropped because of low yields? BTW, I held little grudge against USAirways, because when they were USAir, they swallowed up PSA, I was kind of glad AA swallowed up USAirways.

What kind of equipment did they use on the DCA flight?


US used an A320 on the route.
Scotty doesn't know...
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:11 am

I thought USAirways used an A319 on the DCA route.
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:27 pm

SANMAN66 wrote:
BTW, I held little grudge against USAirways, because when they were USAir, they swallowed up PSA, I was kind of glad AA swallowed up USAirways.


It was really the other way around, US Airways took over American. But by that point, US Airways wasn't really USAir anymore either, since it was America West that took over an on-the-verge-of-collapse US Airways.
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:50 am

hawaiian717 wrote:
SANMAN66 wrote:
BTW, I held little grudge against USAirways, because when they were USAir, they swallowed up PSA, I was kind of glad AA swallowed up USAirways.


It was really the other way around, US Airways took over American. But by that point, US Airways wasn't really USAir anymore either, since it was America West that took over an on-the-verge-of-collapse US Airways.


That's pretty confusing with all the name-swapping! Now I'm trying to figure out whom-swallowed-whom!
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:27 pm

SANMAN66 wrote:
hawaiian717 wrote:
SANMAN66 wrote:
BTW, I held little grudge against USAirways, because when they were USAir, they swallowed up PSA, I was kind of glad AA swallowed up USAirways.

It was really the other way around, US Airways took over American. But by that point, US Airways wasn't really USAir anymore either, since it was America West that took over an on-the-verge-of-collapse US Airways.

That's pretty confusing with all the name-swapping! Now I'm trying to figure out whom-swallowed-whom!

Agreed!

All I know is that AA is the one operating an LA-DCA flight that used to fly from SAN. It may have been US Airways that handed over its SAN flight to their "sister airline", AA, in a memo to the DOT dated 1-15-2014, which AA began flying LAX-DCA on 5-22-2014, but there is no US Airways around any more. If AA were blameless here, they could have easily transferred that flight back to SAN anytime since.

Bottom line: SAN has not had nonstop service to DCA for going on 6 years now... and that's not going to change anytime soon. For me, that's fully on AA.

bb
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:28 pm

SANFan wrote:
SANMAN66 wrote:
hawaiian717 wrote:
It was really the other way around, US Airways took over American. But by that point, US Airways wasn't really USAir anymore either, since it was America West that took over an on-the-verge-of-collapse US Airways.

That's pretty confusing with all the name-swapping! Now I'm trying to figure out whom-swallowed-whom!

Agreed!

All I know is that AA is the one operating an LA-DCA flight that used to fly from SAN. It may have been US Airways that handed over its SAN flight to their "sister airline", AA, in a memo to the DOT dated 1-15-2014, which AA began flying LAX-DCA on 5-22-2014, but there is no US Airways around any more. If AA were blameless here, they could have easily transferred that flight back to SAN anytime since.

Bottom line: SAN has not had nonstop service to DCA for going on 6 years now... and that's not going to change anytime soon. For me, that's fully on AA.

bb

Maybe they are waiting for the MAX to be fixed.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:40 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
SANFan wrote:
SANMAN66 wrote:
That's pretty confusing with all the name-swapping! Now I'm trying to figure out whom-swallowed-whom!

Agreed!

All I know is that AA is the one operating an LA-DCA flight that used to fly from SAN. It may have been US Airways that handed over its SAN flight to their "sister airline", AA, in a memo to the DOT dated 1-15-2014, which AA began flying LAX-DCA on 5-22-2014, but there is no US Airways around any more. If AA were blameless here, they could have easily transferred that flight back to SAN anytime since.

Bottom line: SAN has not had nonstop service to DCA for going on 6 years now... and that's not going to change anytime soon. For me, that's fully on AA.

bb

Maybe they are waiting for the MAX to be fixed.


Nope, the perimter-rule exemption that allowed US to fly DCA-SAN non-stop is fully transferable to other west coast airports, and the minute that US found that out, they abandoned the route from SAN to switch to a second-daily LAX-DCA. And they have never looked back, nor regretted the decision, or they would have made signs of it returning.

That ridiculous perimeter rule needs to die, period. The fifty-thousand RJ's that pollute the grounds of DCA are NOT quieter than an A319 or A320. Slots at DCA need to be filled on a money-making basis, not the exclusion of 10% of the western U.S. while everybody else gets to use DCA.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:07 pm

It is unbelievable that after all these years United is still the only airline flying to IAD or DCA. I know that Southwest flies to BWI but that is too far away for many business travelers.

About 20 years ago, I think I saw a United 747 at a gate at T1W. I think it was the flight to IAD and I think it was Gate 12 or 13. Is this possible? Did UA ever schedule a 747 on SAN-IAD or was this just a sub?

I remember seeing the battleship livery.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:24 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Maybe they are waiting for the MAX to be fixed.

No, I wish but AA's not waiting for anything. There are (only) a total of 4 "moveable" slots awarded in 2012, 1 each belonging to UA and DL and 2 that belong today to AA, that could in theory be transferred to SAN. UA uses theirs to fly SFO-DCA, DL has already moved theirs from SLC to LAX, and of course AA has 2x LAX-DCA. So including AS, LAX has a total of 4 daily nonstops to DCA. I see no reason to honestly think AA will have a change of heart -- even with the upcoming OW relationship with AS which will give those 2 cx a total of 3 nonstops. I actually think it more possible to see DL move their LA-DCA flight to SAN (and I put that likelihood at ~.000000001%) than AA. (I posted a few weeks ago on this and other threads that I wondered about the possibility that the new AS-AA relationship might hopefully create such a move by AA...)

blacksoviet wrote:
It is unbelievable that after all these years United is still the only airline flying to IAD or DCA. I know that Southwest flies to BWI but that is too far away for many business travelers.

Not to DCA but yes, currently UA is the only carrier to Dulles. Remember that a few years ago WN even tried SAN-IAD -- it didn't last long. B6 has also flown the route years ago. I'm sure the fact that UA has a hub at IAD has something to do with their level of service in the SAN-WAS market.
blacksoviet wrote:
About 20 years ago, I think I saw a United 747 at a gate at T1W. I think it was the flight to IAD and I think it was Gate 12 or 13. Is this possible? Did UA ever schedule a 747 on SAN-IAD or was this just a sub? I remember seeing the battleship livery.

UA flew the 747 to HNL (via LA) for a period of time and yes, T1W was their terminal. I imagine that's what you saw. I am unaware that UA ever flew the 747 anywhere else from SAN.

bb
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:23 am

If DL moves there DCA flight to SAN, do you think they could fill a 739?
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