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Coronado990
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:52 am

You're right SANFan, the PHX flights are fine with AA taking care of the OW offerings. Hopefully the smaller adds by AS equates to more future international flights making SAN a viable connecting option to the surrounding west. QF comes to mind. How is the 787-9 performance out of SAN on a lengthy trip such as BNE or SYD?
Cornucopia
 
Ishrion
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:27 pm

SANFan wrote:
Another 'non-announcement' of another new route for SAN from our friends at AS! I discovered this just tonight by manually searching in AS's flights schedules.

Beginning November 20 of this year, along with new service to FLL and CUN, AS will begin flying nonstop to SBA. Here's the schedule that's currently listed:
Depart SAN: 3:05pm - Arrive SBA: 4:05pm #2186 Daily QX EMJ
Depart SBA: 4:45pm - Arrive SAN: 5:40pm #2187 Daily

This is a route I've been expecting as AS continues to grow their Intra-CA markets from SAN. Once AS announced SAN-SBP earlier this year, I figured SBA wasn't too far behind. SBA would continue the expansion that AS seems to be very fond of now, Intra-West and especially that without competition! (I also continue to hope to see OAK eventually.)

Back in the old days, I spent many hours in the car driving between San Diego and Santa Barbara, when it was about right around 4 hours each way and before Hwy 101 was even a true freeway for some of the way -- including through the city of SBA! Nowadays, well, I think a 1-hour nonstop will attract plenty of travelers!

For those interested, I have yet to create a valid turn schedule to see where this EMJ comes from (to feed the SBA departure) or where it heads after the return from SBA. I've looked pretty carefully thru the AS flight schedules and couldn't find anything else new but we'll have to wait and see what else happens.

Also, I thought I'd mention that AS still shows HNL and OGG flights on their August 1 schedule! And judging by the seat maps, there seem to people booking both flights! That is great to see. (LIH and KOA are due to return next month.)

bb


SAN Airport's Press Release: https://www.san.org/news/news-detail/sa ... a-airlines
 
friendlyskies22
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:56 pm

SAN apparently going ahead with the Term 1 project.

https://simpleflying.com/san-diego-term ... velopment/
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:35 am

Ishrion wrote:
SANFan wrote:
Another 'non-announcement' of another new route for SAN from our friends at AS! I discovered this just tonight by manually searching in AS's flights schedules.
Beginning November 20 of this year, along with new service to FLL and CUN, AS will begin flying nonstop to SBA.

SAN Airport's Press Release: https://www.san.org/news/news-detail/sa ... a-airlines

Thanx for sharing Ishrion. It's really nice to see SAN.org issuing press releases for new routes again, even/especially when the carrier doesn't bother!


friendlyskies22 wrote:
SAN apparently going ahead with the Term 1 project.
https://simpleflying.com/san-diego-term ... velopment/

Great news, and thanks to you too for posting this, friendly'. I'm glad the Board has the faith in our 'little airport that could' for a solid recovery following 2020! Maybe when they looked at all these new route announcements that they've been posting for a few weeks now, they realized things are looking good for the near and long-term future. I'm sure this will be a smart move that everyone in San Diego will appreciate in a few years! (Even though there may be a bit of swearing heard by pax and drivers while the project progresses!)

bb
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:04 am

Looks like BA is planning to use the 787-9 to SAN when they return: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-04aug20/
 
ajlombardi2
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:08 am

hawaiian717 wrote:
Looks like BA is planning to use the 787-9 to SAN when they return: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-04aug20/


i'm down with that! has JAL operated the -9 into SAN, i believe just -8's?
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:08 am

hawaiian717 wrote:
Looks like BA is planning to use the 787-9 to SAN when they return: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-04aug20/

You're could be right D, but what it actually shows, to be effective October 25, 2020, thru March 27, 21 is:

London Heathrow – San Diego 5 of 7 weekly displays 787-9, while 747-400 continues to operate 2 weekly

First, I'm very happy to finally see the start date, and not nearly as bad as it could have been; fingers crossed that it holds up!

Second, the author of the post on RoutesOnline specifically hints that it is odd to see 747s and even A380s still on BA's winter schedule as of Aug 4. The implication is that that will change (since both those fleet types have been supposedly grounded permanently.)

Third, Speedbird's return to SAN will apparently be Daily from the get-go! I see this as another big positive.

Fourth, as a return of int'l travel has been said to be slower here than in some places, I would be fine with a 'smaller' plane to re-start our service. Every day. But BA is apparently saying the smaller plane, the 789, would be used on only 5 days while some sort of larger a/c will be used on the other 2. It probably will not be a 747 but perhaps a 777 of some flavor, or even an A350! That would be marvelous!

Fifth, this might be a barometer for other service to be returning here, such as JL and LH. I can't imagine that int'l travel would be returning ONLY to Great Britain.

This is really a terrific development and certainly gives me optimism about the mid-term future of our local aviation world! Thanks for finding & posting it, Hawaiian'.

bb
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:58 am

Just for discussion sake, I just spent some time studying the BA schedules. The times of the flights at SAN remain the same as our previous schedules of earlier this year -- departure for LHR is at 18 35 starting Nov 1 when DST ends.

The '747' shows as operating on Tu and Sa with the '787' flying the remaining days. I wonder what is the reason that the Queen flies those 2 particular days? Cargo related, or pax? SDIA issues? A/C availability? Hmmmmm...

I figure we should give this a week or two to see what things look like when the schedule-dust all settles.

bb
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:48 pm

747 will not be flying to SAN for BA; the type has already been retired. I don't know what to make of the fact that it still shows 747 on the schedule. Could be that they're planning to go 5x/week and haven't gotten around to removing the other two days yet and left them as 747 for now. Could also be like you said it's planned to be a different type that's still to be determined. I wonder if they just haven't worked out all the aircraft scheduling to cover the remaining two days.

At present I have little faith in any airlines' future plans anywhere, whether announced or not, until the flights actually happen. Things change so quickly right now.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:52 pm

friendlyskies22 wrote:
SAN apparently going ahead with the Term 1 project.

https://simpleflying.com/san-diego-term ... velopment/


Are they really though? Simple Flying's source for their article published yesterday appears to be a January (i.e. pre-pandemic) article from the UCSD Guardian. I don't see any mention of newer sources nor that they spoke to someone at the airport authority directly for an update.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:26 am

hawaiian717 wrote:
747 will not be flying to SAN for BA. I don't know what to make of the fact that it still shows 747 on the schedule. Could be that they're planning to go 5x/week and haven't gotten around to removing the other two days yet and left them as 747 for now. Could also be like you said it's planned to be a different type that's still to be determined. I wonder if they just haven't worked out all the aircraft scheduling to cover the remaining two days.

At present I have little faith in any airlines' future plans anywhere, whether announced or not, until the flights actually happen. Things change so quickly right now.

Your points are, as usual, right on. The Queen fleet is supposedly grounded and retired; that's been announced for a while now and I wonder as well why BA continues to include the type -- as well as the 380 -- in their just-released winter schedules? The fleet types may just be place holders while they finalize a/c availability, including any new deliveries or refurbished frames but I'd think they would know all that information pretty clearly by now, just 3-4 months out.

I do not agree with your option that they are really planning to fly to SAN only 5 days/week; there's no reason I can think of that they'd include dummy service on the other 2 days. (Or at the least, why not show all 7 days as 789s then maybe they can see which days are least popular? We know some airlines do this but to do it only 3 months out doesn't seem logical.) Again, they didn't just show daily 789 service LHR-SAN. They seem to be making a point that it won't be that simple.

I guess the only answer to all our questions is, "stay tuned."

bb
 
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BA744PHX
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:20 pm

SANFan wrote:
hawaiian717 wrote:
747 will not be flying to SAN for BA. I don't know what to make of the fact that it still shows 747 on the schedule. Could be that they're planning to go 5x/week and haven't gotten around to removing the other two days yet and left them as 747 for now. Could also be like you said it's planned to be a different type that's still to be determined. I wonder if they just haven't worked out all the aircraft scheduling to cover the remaining two days.

At present I have little faith in any airlines' future plans anywhere, whether announced or not, until the flights actually happen. Things change so quickly right now.

Your points are, as usual, right on. The Queen fleet is supposedly grounded and retired; that's been announced for a while now and I wonder as well why BA continues to include the type -- as well as the 380 -- in their just-released winter schedules? The fleet types may just be place holders while they finalize a/c availability, including any new deliveries or refurbished frames but I'd think they would know all that information pretty clearly by now, just 3-4 months out.

I do not agree with your option that they are really planning to fly to SAN only 5 days/week; there's no reason I can think of that they'd include dummy service on the other 2 days. (Or at the least, why not show all 7 days as 789s then maybe they can see which days are least popular? We know some airlines do this but to do it only 3 months out doesn't seem logical.) Again, they didn't just show daily 789 service LHR-SAN. They seem to be making a point that it won't be that simple.

I guess the only answer to all our questions is, "stay tuned."

bb


Confirmed, SAN reduced to 5 weekly W20
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:33 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
Confirmed, SAN reduced to 5 weekly W20

Thank you for the update BA744PHX.

I will say that I've lost some respect for the RoutesOnline updates on BA. The latest one, dated 8/5, revises many city pairs but LHR-SAN is (still!) shown as:
London Heathrow – San Diego (no further update on 05AUG20) 5 of 7 weekly displays 787-9, while 747-400 continues to operate 2 weekly

The BA booking engine DOES confirm there is no service scheduled on Tu and Sa; AFAICT, service does begin on 10/25/20. I'm assuming the 5-day service will be on the 787-9 although I have not confirmed that via the booking engine.

At this point in time, my fingers are crossed that we do see Speedbird back at SDIA in late October at the latest! Excellent!

bb
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:39 pm

Although I'm saddened that we won't be seeing the "Queen of the Skies", but I'm ecstatic that we have a start date for BA's return. At this juncture, I'll be happy at whatever BA sends our way! I'll be happy to see a 787-9 or 777 grace our skies, although my preference is to see the A350. Hopefully LH and JL will soon return soon.
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lindy field
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:06 pm

Isn't all this discussion of BA's return to San Diego moot unless the DHS adds SAN to the list of airports that are allowed to serve as points of entry for international travelers during the pandemic? I haven't seen anything to indicate that the DHS is planning to rescind its pandemic-related restrictions on international travel.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:49 pm

lindy field wrote:
Isn't all this discussion of BA's return to San Diego moot unless the DHS adds SAN to the list of airports that are allowed to serve as points of entry for international travelers during the pandemic? I haven't seen anything to indicate that the DHS is planning to rescind its pandemic-related restrictions on international travel.

Your point is taken Lindy and will of course be the ultimate switch permitting SAN to see Euro service again.

I feel, however, that simply seeing that BA is willing and able to finally publish schedules including service to/from SAN is a giant step forward. At least we have a firm target date which at least this particular carrier feels is doable, if the governments involved permit it. Now we don't have to wonder if we will see BA back in the skies over San Diego -- just a matter of "when!"

Great to see you stop by our thread, E; it's been a while. Please do it more often!

bb
 
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lindy field
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:31 pm

Hi bb,

Well, your point is well taken that BA is at least demonstrating its interest in resuming service to SAN, and in a measured and hopefully sustainable manner by downgauging the equipment and reducing frequency temporarily. Maybe it's time for a grassroots letter-writing campaign to have SAN designated as a DHS approved point of entry.

I do follow the thread but won't usually pipe up unless I have something substantive to add. I am actually a bit surprised by how many flights are still operating (I don't know anybody who is currently traveling by air...). On the cargo side, I notice that the FedEx 757 flight from TIJ is still flying. That's an odd one, to be sure and I wonder if it's only a temporary add or will be more permanent. I also wonder if SAN will get added to the Amazon Prime Air network, especially with the 737-800 freighters coming into their fleet.

Edward
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 07, 2020 8:08 pm

lindy field wrote:
Hi bb,
Well, your point is well taken that BA is at least demonstrating its interest in resuming service to SAN, and in a measured and hopefully sustainable manner by downgauging the equipment and reducing frequency temporarily. Maybe it's time for a grassroots letter-writing campaign to have SAN designated as a DHS approved point of entry.

I do follow the thread but won't usually pipe up unless I have something substantive to add. I am actually a bit surprised by how many flights are still operating (I don't know anybody who is currently traveling by air...). On the cargo side, I notice that the FedEx 757 flight from TIJ is still flying. That's an odd one, to be sure and I wonder if it's only a temporary add or will be more permanent. I also wonder if SAN will get added to the Amazon Prime Air network, especially with the 737-800 freighters coming into their fleet.
Edward

Good idea about the letter-writing campaign.

As per the BA winter schedule, there will certainly be lots of other cities that will not see their BA service return judging by the relatively few number of cities on the DHS approved list. Those other cities, I believe, are: AUS, BNA, BWI, DEN, IAH, LAS, MCO, MSY, PHX, PIT, PHL & TPA -- all these cities show BA service slated to start on Oct 25 but are not on the approved DHS list! About half of BA's scheduled cities are in question!

Speaking further about cargo, the June numbers are out for SAN and cargo is, surprisingly to me, doing pretty well! Int'l cargo for the month was 481 tons; that's down only 40% y-o-y! That alone may help encourage JL (and hopefully both BA & LH) to get back to SAN, even if pax traffic is slow to recover. Most of that 481 tons was obviously coming in on FEX, UPS, etc., as the only int'l pax air service in June at SAN was AS's single daily Cabo r/t.

I would expect SAN to be added to the Amazon network; I can't see why not. Interesting. Please keep us posted, Edward.

bb
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:02 am

lindy field wrote:
Hi bb,

Well, your point is well taken that BA is at least demonstrating its interest in resuming service to SAN, and in a measured and hopefully sustainable manner by downgauging the equipment and reducing frequency temporarily. Maybe it's time for a grassroots letter-writing campaign to have SAN designated as a DHS approved point of entry.

I do follow the thread but won't usually pipe up unless I have something substantive to add. I am actually a bit surprised by how many flights are still operating (I don't know anybody who is currently traveling by air...). On the cargo side, I notice that the FedEx 757 flight from TIJ is still flying. That's an odd one, to be sure and I wonder if it's only a temporary add or will be more permanent. I also wonder if SAN will get added to the Amazon Prime Air network, especially with the 737-800 freighters coming into their fleet.

Edward


The international terminal at TIJ is at a point where the steel framing is almost complete. We should get some interesting flights out of there once covid is behind us. In theory passengers getting on and off international flights will only have to go through US customs and immigration. At least that's the stated goal of the project. (The devil is in the details.)

I miss seeing Edelweiss, Lufthansa, Japan Airlines, and British Airways over San Diego. But I'll take any interesting flight I can see in the sky. That 20 min Fedex TIJ-SAN flight comes by low and slow over the South Bay.
 
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BA744PHX
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:13 am

LH will resume SAN on March 28, at the moment its the only out of FRA by LH closed for W20 for USA, JFK will resume from MUC March 28 as well

This is likely to change with additional US service cuts from other cities

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-12aug20/

***updated*** AUS is now closed for W20
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:34 am

BA744PHX wrote:
LH will resume SAN on March 28, at the moment its the only out of FRA by LH closed for W20 for USA, JFK will resume from MUC March 28 as well

This is likely to change with additional US service cuts from other cities

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-12aug20/

Thanks for posting this info here BA7' but I don't interpret the info as you did. Here's what was said in the RoutesOnline post you linked to:
Lufthansa in recent weeks filed inventory update for Northern winter 2020/21 season. As of 12AUG20, reservations for following Intercontinental routes during the period of 25OCT20 – 27MAR21 is no longer available.
...
Frankfurt – San Diego
...

That to me says SAN-FRA will not operate between 10/25/20 and 3/27/21; for the record, I never thought it was posted that it would. In any case, it says nothing about it starting on 3/28. I just visited LH's website and could not find any SAN service listed for March 2021 onward...

Would you clarify your interpretation? I hope you're right but I just don't see it. Thanks.

bb
 
757SanCam
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:13 pm

According to this link: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-12aug20/ , BA will switch aircraft on 28 Mar 2021 to 7 days a week on a 777/200ER with 3 class service to SAN.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:49 pm

Well WN new schedule release has SAN-HNL staying daily.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
wnflyguy
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:49 pm

Well WN new schedule release has SAN-HNL staying daily.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:41 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Well WN new schedule release has SAN-HNL staying daily.
Flyguy

That's nice, but when? Mid-2021? (I don't pay much attention to WN schedule releases any more...)

757SanCam wrote:
According to this link: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-12aug20/ , BA will switch aircraft on 28 Mar 2021 to 7 days a week on a 777/200ER with 3 class service to SAN.

Fingers crossed that SAN gets approval for European arrivals at some point... But it's nice to see more faith in SAN from BA!

I'm still unclear about LH and their plans for SAN. And what about Japan? Sure haven't seen much from them. On the home page of SAN'org, they include a window of current Flight Status reports and lately I've seen JL's flight listed, but it's always shown as cancelled... I don't know if that's a good sign or a bad one!

bb
 
Ishrion
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:51 pm

Southwest adds SAN-ORF from Jan 5, daily except Saturdays.

https://twitter.com/hbrown202/status/12 ... 1777060865
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:03 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Southwest adds SAN-ORF from Jan 5, daily except Saturdays.

https://twitter.com/hbrown202/status/12 ... 1777060865

Whoa, what?! I guess I'd better start paying some attention to WN schedule releases!

That's amazing news. That's a route that's been on my "Why is there no service from SAN to _ _ _ ?" list -- very near the top in fact -- for years! WN offered weekly service for a short while -- part of summer 2019 I believe -- and then nothing. Now that they've announced some real service, we'll have to see how it does. I hope well and expect there will be a good supply of cargo going back and forth at least! Pax traffic will depend on how the navy travels, fare-wise. Last time I saw data, SAN was by far the largest unserved market out of ORF.

Thanx for sharing your discovery Ishrion. Next year might turn out to be an interesting one after all for WN in SAN...

bb
 
wnflyguy
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:30 pm

SANFan wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Well WN new schedule release has SAN-HNL staying daily.
Flyguy

That's nice, but when? Mid-2021? (I don't pay much attention to WN schedule releases any more...)

757SanCam wrote:
According to this link: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-12aug20/ , BA will switch aircraft on 28 Mar 2021 to 7 days a week on a 777/200ER with 3 class service to SAN.

Fingers crossed that SAN gets approval for European arrivals at some point... But it's nice to see more faith in SAN from BA!

I'm still unclear about LH and their plans for SAN. And what about Japan? Sure haven't seen much from them. On the home page of SAN'org, they include a window of current Flight Status reports and lately I've seen JL's flight listed, but it's always shown as cancelled... I don't know if that's a good sign or a bad one!

bb


Sounds like WN is keeping SAN-HNL year round.
But because of the Covid Environment OGG,KOA and LIH non stops all got shelved until further notice.
But the you still have Year round one stop connections via HNL,OAK and SJC.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:49 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
On the cargo side, I notice that the FedEx 757 flight from TIJ is still flying.


That is really an odd flight, has anyone figured out why FedEx flies a 757 between TIJ and SAN? Unless SAN is just a refueling stop between TIJ and somewhere else? Sort of like what DL and EA used to do during the mid-80s: SAN-ONT-ATL?
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:12 pm

SANFan wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Well WN new schedule release has SAN-HNL staying daily.
Flyguy

That's nice, but when? Mid-2021? (I don't pay much attention to WN schedule releases any more...)

bb


That’s up to Hawaii, really. Mainland flights (except OAK) are on hold until the quarantine lifts. Given the worsening situation in Hawaii, probably won’t be anytime soon.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:01 am

Silver1SWA wrote:
SANFan wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Well WN new schedule release has SAN-HNL staying daily.
Flyguy

That's nice, but when? Mid-2021? (I don't pay much attention to WN schedule releases any more...)
bb

That’s up to Hawaii, really. Mainland flights (except OAK) are on hold until the quarantine lifts. Given the worsening situation in Hawaii, probably won’t be anytime soon.

Aloha R. So am I correct that SAN-HI is not on WN schedules at all right now, all the way thru next April (the end of the open booking window?)

To the best of my knowledge, AS is still operating SAN-HNL but they've dropped their Maui flight that they started August 1. Who knows how long they'll keep HNL going?

What a horrible situation the State of Hawaii continues to find itself in. As one of my favorite places on the planet, I just hope things will turn the corner in Paradise sometime soon. I suppose a viable vaccine will ultimately be what gets things heading in the right direction again... and folks will again be flocking to Hawaii!

bb
 
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Coronado990
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:12 pm

SANMAN66 wrote:
vedatil4 wrote:
On the cargo side, I notice that the FedEx 757 flight from TIJ is still flying.


That is really an odd flight, has anyone figured out why FedEx flies a 757 between TIJ and SAN? Unless SAN is just a refueling stop between TIJ and somewhere else? Sort of like what DL and EA used to do during the mid-80s: SAN-ONT-ATL?


The 757 is routed OAK-SAN-TIJ.
Cornucopia
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:54 pm

Coronado990 wrote:

The 757 is routed OAK-SAN-TIJ.


It must be a strange sight to see: the Fedex plane taking off from TIJ, only to see it landing in SAN a couple of minutes later.
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
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Coronado990
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:59 pm

SANMAN66 wrote:
Coronado990 wrote:

The 757 is routed OAK-SAN-TIJ.


It must be a strange sight to see: the Fedex plane taking off from TIJ, only to see it landing in SAN a couple of minutes later.


In the absence of the international long hauls, this has became my favorite flight. I can see departures from TIJ from my house and I'm not far from SAN so I can pretty much see the entire flight. Reminds me of the Kinshasa-Brazzaville hops on AF and ET.
Cornucopia
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:53 pm

SANMAN66 wrote:
Coronado990 wrote:

The 757 is routed OAK-SAN-TIJ.


It must be a strange sight to see: the Fedex plane taking off from TIJ, only to see it landing in SAN a couple of minutes later.


I'm guessing that Fedex flight takes a total of five minutes between TIJ and SAN?
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:17 pm

SANFan wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Southwest adds SAN-ORF from Jan 5, daily except Saturdays.

Whoa, what?! I guess I'd better start paying some attention to WN schedule releases!

That's amazing news. That's a route that's been on my "Why is there no service from SAN to _ _ _ ?" list -- very near the top in fact -- for years! WN offered weekly service for a short while -- part of summer 2019 I believe -- and then nothing. Now that they've announced some real service, we'll have to see how it does. I hope well and expect there will be a good supply of cargo going back and forth at least! Pax traffic will depend on how the navy travels, fare-wise. Last time I saw data, SAN was by far the largest unserved market out of ORF.
bb

I just wanted to add a comment or two to the news of WN starting ORF service.

On another thread it was mentioned that apparently WN has won the GSA contract for the route for 2021, meaning that WN should be able to carry any and all Navy personnel traveling on official government business between the 2 cities -- which should be a lot! -- plus others who are not using GSA fares. Plus belly freight/cargo which I still say might actually pay for the flight costs. Pax might turn out to be a nice bonus!

BTW, the GSA contract is effective 10-1-20 and WN's nonstop begins 1-5-21. I'm going to look around at year-end skeds to see if WN might add the route in late 2020. (It'd sure be nice to have it flying over the holidays. I'd bet that when the network planners in DAL saw that award of the GSA contract to them for SAN-ORF, they cleared their desks and immediately found the a/c to get the route planned and implemented quickly; that might be early Jan 2021, or maybe even sooner! I'll see if I can find anything...

Just to toot SAN's horn, SAN-ORF is the only transcon route from ORF; there is no nonstop to LA, SEA or SFO -- just to SAN. I believe the longest flight west from ORF currently is WN to DEN. And of course ORF is now the newest transcon from SAN. Kind of a unique route, me thinks, but an important one that is LONG overdue for nonstop service.

bb
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:18 pm

Sorry, but just a couple of quick remarks.

I looked and didn't find WN SAN-ORF starting between 10/1/20 and 1/2/21. Not yet anyway.

I looked just now and AS is still offering (more or less) daily SAN-HNL flights this month! This is what was scheduled as of August 1.

I randomly looked at some seat maps for flights within the next week and there are apparently people on the flights! In fact, perhaps only due to scheduling reasons, HNL-SAN some days with a 739! To be sure, the planes are not full; I'd say the average number of seats reserved on the flights I checked is maybe in the low 20s.... I'm sure there are military personnel traveling between here and HI and maybe even the cargo holds are full.

AS's Sept skeds also show SAN-HNL but with sub-daily service. AS is trying!

bb
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:01 pm

SANFan wrote:
On another thread it was mentioned that apparently WN has won the GSA contract for the route for 2021, meaning that WN should be able to carry any and all Navy personnel traveling on official government business between the 2 cities -- which should be a lot! -- plus others who are not using GSA fares. Plus belly freight/cargo which I still say might actually pay for the flight costs. Pax might turn out to be a nice bonus!


Indeed they have. You can search to see the awards here: https://cpsearch.fas.gsa.gov/cpsearch/search.do
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:43 pm

There was an article in the union-tribune about a long-range transportation plan recently. If you google "san diego 177 billion" it should come up as a result.

In the plan there's an idea of having a 120mph train running from Oceanside to a future Grand Central Station near the airport down to the CBX bridge.

I want to believe and dream big with them. But I doubt I'll ever see the day when these things are built. Any thoughts?

Supposedly there would be a peoplemover tunnel built from the Grand Central station to the airport under an active runway. This seems like a big stretch. Also, the price tags mentioned are tremendous.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:50 pm

The tunnel from Grand Central to the airport terminals has been talked about before. It's all part of the city's redevelopment proposal with the Navy for the current NAVWAR site adjacent to the Old Town trolley station.

The plan is interesting. I'm not sure without seeing the plan where the figure for 350 miles of new commuter rail comes from, since it looks to mostly be following the existing Surf Line from Oceanside to downtown and trolley route to San Ysidro. New construction would be the Kearny Mesa route, extension from San Ysidro to CBX/Otay Mesa, and possibly elimination of the Miramar detour. High speed rail sounds nice, but it's hard to reconcile that with commuter rail. High speed rail really only makes sense for intercity lines with long distances between stations, otherwise you spend too much time slowing down and speeding up. The existing Coaster stations seem too close together to make sense for high speed, but if you have fewer stations further apart, that makes them less attractive for many people who would have to travel further to reach a station.
 
williaminsd
Posts: 341
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:32 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
There was an article in the union-tribune about a long-range transportation plan recently. If you google "san diego 177 billion" it should come up as a result.

In the plan there's an idea of having a 120mph train running from Oceanside to a future Grand Central Station near the airport down to the CBX bridge.

I want to believe and dream big with them. But I doubt I'll ever see the day when these things are built. Any thoughts?

Supposedly there would be a peoplemover tunnel built from the Grand Central station to the airport under an active runway. This seems like a big stretch. Also, the price tags mentioned are tremendous.


I think before we spend a dime on obscenely expensive mass transit systems, especially those from an agency with a dubious "track" record of passenger and revenue projections, we need to evaluate how COVID has/is impacting travel patterns, particularly commuting.

Mass-transit is a virus incubator, if we assume the rationale for social distancing applies to all situations. How many people are willing to return to these disease tubes?

And with a new-found appreciation for telecommuting in the wake of COVID, what is the long-term impact on demand?

Until we have trustworthy answers to these questions, we can't spend $177, let alone $177 BILLION, on mass transit schemes of questionable utility.
 
vedatil4
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:38 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:01 pm

williaminsd wrote:
vedatil4 wrote:
There was an article in the union-tribune about a long-range transportation plan recently. If you google "san diego 177 billion" it should come up as a result.

In the plan there's an idea of having a 120mph train running from Oceanside to a future Grand Central Station near the airport down to the CBX bridge.

I want to believe and dream big with them. But I doubt I'll ever see the day when these things are built. Any thoughts?

Supposedly there would be a peoplemover tunnel built from the Grand Central station to the airport under an active runway. This seems like a big stretch. Also, the price tags mentioned are tremendous.


I think before we spend a dime on obscenely expensive mass transit systems, especially those from an agency with a dubious "track" record of passenger and revenue projections, we need to evaluate how COVID has/is impacting travel patterns, particularly commuting.

Mass-transit is a virus incubator, if we assume the rationale for social distancing applies to all situations. How many people are willing to return to these disease tubes?

And with a new-found appreciation for telecommuting in the wake of COVID, what is the long-term impact on demand?

Until we have trustworthy answers to these questions, we can't spend $177, let alone $177 BILLION, on mass transit schemes of questionable utility.


What's crazy to me is that in 5 years, MTS or SanDag haven't figured out to alter the existing 905 bus route to reach the CBX bridge and now they're proposing to build a bullet train there? The nearest bus stop is still a mile away from what's effectively an airport.
 
williaminsd
Posts: 341
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:17 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
williaminsd wrote:
vedatil4 wrote:
There was an article in the union-tribune about a long-range transportation plan recently. If you google "san diego 177 billion" it should come up as a result.

In the plan there's an idea of having a 120mph train running from Oceanside to a future Grand Central Station near the airport down to the CBX bridge.

I want to believe and dream big with them. But I doubt I'll ever see the day when these things are built. Any thoughts?

Supposedly there would be a peoplemover tunnel built from the Grand Central station to the airport under an active runway. This seems like a big stretch. Also, the price tags mentioned are tremendous.


I think before we spend a dime on obscenely expensive mass transit systems, especially those from an agency with a dubious "track" record of passenger and revenue projections, we need to evaluate how COVID has/is impacting travel patterns, particularly commuting.

Mass-transit is a virus incubator, if we assume the rationale for social distancing applies to all situations. How many people are willing to return to these disease tubes?

And with a new-found appreciation for telecommuting in the wake of COVID, what is the long-term impact on demand?

Until we have trustworthy answers to these questions, we can't spend $177, let alone $177 BILLION, on mass transit schemes of questionable utility.


What's crazy to me is that in 5 years, MTS or SanDag haven't figured out to alter the existing 905 bus route to reach the CBX bridge and now they're proposing to build a bullet train there? The nearest bus stop is still a mile away from what's effectively an airport.


I think SANDAG's time has come and gone. They produce little of value and given their recent, woeful record of ridership projections, revenues and costs, they should be sent packing. Add to that their utter duplicity in how Transnet funds would be used, and it's hard to find a reason not to disband.

Much like Civic San Diego (formerly CCDC), they do nothing that can't be done by other agencies. Whatever little value they do bring is far outweighed by the bureaucratic costs including millions in payroll and six-figure pensions.

This $177 BILLION plan is yet another pipedream whose real purpose is to pretend they still have a meaningful role in San Diego planning and development and justify their own bloated and redundant existences. Gonna give it a hard no...
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:13 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
Supposedly there would be a peoplemover tunnel built from the Grand Central station to the airport under an active runway. This seems like a big stretch. Also, the price tags mentioned are tremendous.


I've been asking this question for a long time now: how do they plan on tunneling under an active runway for a peoplemover system. Also, I thought the bullet train idea was dead. I agree with everyone else. Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to simply have the "Rapid" bus service from SAN and extend service to the CBX? A whole lot cheaper than the bullet train idea!
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:07 am

What gates was AA using in Terminal 2 West? I don’t think there are very many CUTE gates there.
 
cheapflier
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:05 am

SANMAN66 wrote:
vedatil4 wrote:
Supposedly there would be a peoplemover tunnel built from the Grand Central station to the airport under an active runway. This seems like a big stretch. Also, the price tags mentioned are tremendous.


I've been asking this question for a long time now: how do they plan on tunneling under an active runway for a peoplemover system. Also, I thought the bullet train idea was dead. I agree with everyone else. Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to simply have the "Rapid" bus service from SAN and extend service to the CBX? A whole lot cheaper than the bullet train idea!


They could certainly at least start getting data by re-routing the 905 or even the 225 if they wanted to extend the route and have a one-seat to Downtown. CBX still offers a shuttle to the RCC at SAN but the contractor isn't authorized to pickup passengers from SAN.

I've thought...if we're dreaming big-ish, a free people mover from the RCC to T1 and T2 with paid service to downtown would be ideal. Even a paid Old Town extension would be nice....something, fare-wise, modeled off the AirTrain at EWR or JFK. I suppose it could also be just a reroute of the Green line, too, if it actually ran more than every half-hour off-peak.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:02 am

July's pax report was released today at SAN.org and there are some, I guess I'd call them "encouraging" numbers, and some shifts in who's carrying the pax these days.

>The total pax for July 2020 was 610,727; for comparison, July 2019 saw 2,425,392 so this year was just about 75% fewer pax using SDIA. The percentage is improving, slowly, as the monthly difference between 2020 and 2019 is actually decreasing; in June, that difference was almost 88%.
>Total yearly pax for 2020 thru July is just under 6M which is "only" 59% fewer than the 2019 total thru July.
>Interestingly, int'l pax were 6,486, compared to June's total of just over 3,000, so more than doubled! But the interesting thing to me is that those numbers both come from one route - the ONLY int'l route serving SAN these days -- and that's the single daily Cabo r/t. There were still only 31 int'l arrivals at our FIS in July so that's still just the single SJD flight but they carried way over twice as many pax in July! The numbers are not huge but doubling them is certainly a move in the right direction! According to my records, AS has been flying SAN-PVR 3x weekly in August so when those numbers come out, we'll see at least TWO int'l routes accounted for! Baby steps folks, baby steps...
>Total pax-carrying flights op'd in July were 8,403; that's 55% fewer than in July 2019. But again, month-over-month, June saw only 5,611 pax flights at SDIA.

I found the most interesting stats reported were the Market Shares by carrier for July: (For comparison, I've included the June numbers in parentheses.)
1] WN: 45.5% (52.3%) - WN is down almost 7% month-over-month in market share;
2] AA: 12.1% (10.7%);
3] AS: 11.2% (14.5%) - also down, over 3%;
4] DL: 11.2% (8.9%);
5] UA: 6.6% (5.9%);
6] NK: 4.9% (.7%) - a major jump up!;
7] B6: 2.7% (1.3%);
8] F9: 2.7% (2.4%);
9] G4: 2.0% (2.9%);
10] SY: .8% (.4%); and
11] HA: .5% (0).

Between the previous market share leaders, WN and AS, they saw a total of about a 10% drop! That drop was taken up more of less by AA, DL, NK & B6! Although I'm a bit surprised to see the market share drops by either WN or AS, it is nice to see the other cx increasing their business here. I didn't realize HA was flying in and out of SAN in July; did they start OGG and then drop it?

Lastly, only 11 cx -- not separating out OO, etc. -- are active at SAN right now; that seems kind of scary to me. In a normal world, this July we would've seen 19 cx including the 2 new kids in town, WO & TS. Who know's what the count will be NEXT July?

bb
 
williaminsd
Posts: 341
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:52 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:21 am

SANFan wrote:
July's pax report was released today at SAN.org and there are some, I guess I'd call them "encouraging" numbers, and some shifts in who's carrying the pax these days.

>The total pax for July 2020 was 610,727; for comparison, July 2019 saw 2,425,392 so this year was just about 75% fewer pax using SDIA. The percentage is improving, slowly, as the monthly difference between 2020 and 2019 is actually decreasing; in June, that difference was almost 88%.
>Total yearly pax for 2020 thru July is just under 6M which is "only" 59% fewer than the 2019 total thru July.
>Interestingly, int'l pax were 6,486, compared to June's total of just over 3,000, so more than doubled! But the interesting thing to me is that those numbers both come from one route - the ONLY int'l route serving SAN these days -- and that's the single daily Cabo r/t. There were still only 31 int'l arrivals at our FIS in July so that's still just the single SJD flight but they carried way over twice as many pax in July! The numbers are not huge but doubling them is certainly a move in the right direction! According to my records, AS has been flying SAN-PVR 3x weekly in August so when those numbers come out, we'll see at least TWO int'l routes accounted for! Baby steps folks, baby steps...
>Total pax-carrying flights op'd in July were 8,403; that's 55% fewer than in July 2019. But again, month-over-month, June saw only 5,611 pax flights at SDIA.

I found the most interesting stats reported were the Market Shares by carrier for July: (For comparison, I've included the June numbers in parentheses.)
1] WN: 45.5% (52.3%) - WN is down almost 7% month-over-month in market share;
2] AA: 12.1% (10.7%);
3] AS: 11.2% (14.5%) - also down, over 3%;
4] DL: 11.2% (8.9%);
5] UA: 6.6% (5.9%);
6] NK: 4.9% (.7%) - a major jump up!;
7] B6: 2.7% (1.3%);
8] F9: 2.7% (2.4%);
9] G4: 2.0% (2.9%);
10] SY: .8% (.4%); and
11] HA: .5% (0).

Between the previous market share leaders, WN and AS, they saw a total of about a 10% drop! That drop was taken up more of less by AA, DL, NK & B6! Although I'm a bit surprised to see the market share drops by either WN or AS, it is nice to see the other cx increasing their business here. I didn't realize HA was flying in and out of SAN in July; did they start OGG and then drop it?

Lastly, only 11 cx -- not separating out OO, etc. -- are active at SAN right now; that seems kind of scary to me. In a normal world, this July we would've seen 19 cx including the 2 new kids in town, WO & TS. Who know's what the count will be NEXT July?

bb


Hey thanks for all the info SANFan. Lotsa good stuff here. I guess with Hawaii still closed, Cabo is taking up the slack...
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1688
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:21 am

SANFan wrote:
July's pax report was released today at SAN.org and there are some, I guess I'd call them "encouraging" numbers, and some shifts in who's carrying the pax these days.

>The total pax for July 2020 was 610,727; for comparison, July 2019 saw 2,425,392 so this year was just about 75% fewer pax using SDIA. The percentage is improving, slowly, as the monthly difference between 2020 and 2019 is actually decreasing; in June, that difference was almost 88%.
>Total yearly pax for 2020 thru July is just under 6M which is "only" 59% fewer than the 2019 total thru July.
>Interestingly, int'l pax were 6,486, compared to June's total of just over 3,000, so more than doubled! But the interesting thing to me is that those numbers both come from one route - the ONLY int'l route serving SAN these days -- and that's the single daily Cabo r/t. There were still only 31 int'l arrivals at our FIS in July so that's still just the single SJD flight but they carried way over twice as many pax in July! The numbers are not huge but doubling them is certainly a move in the right direction! According to my records, AS has been flying SAN-PVR 3x weekly in August so when those numbers come out, we'll see at least TWO int'l routes accounted for! Baby steps folks, baby steps...
>Total pax-carrying flights op'd in July were 8,403; that's 55% fewer than in July 2019. But again, month-over-month, June saw only 5,611 pax flights at SDIA.

I found the most interesting stats reported were the Market Shares by carrier for July: (For comparison, I've included the June numbers in parentheses.)
1] WN: 45.5% (52.3%) - WN is down almost 7% month-over-month in market share;
2] AA: 12.1% (10.7%);
3] AS: 11.2% (14.5%) - also down, over 3%;
4] DL: 11.2% (8.9%);
5] UA: 6.6% (5.9%);
6] NK: 4.9% (.7%) - a major jump up!;
7] B6: 2.7% (1.3%);
8] F9: 2.7% (2.4%);
9] G4: 2.0% (2.9%);
10] SY: .8% (.4%); and
11] HA: .5% (0).

Between the previous market share leaders, WN and AS, they saw a total of about a 10% drop! That drop was taken up more of less by AA, DL, NK & B6! Although I'm a bit surprised to see the market share drops by either WN or AS, it is nice to see the other cx increasing their business here. I didn't realize HA was flying in and out of SAN in July; did they start OGG and then drop it?

Lastly, only 11 cx -- not separating out OO, etc. -- are active at SAN right now; that seems kind of scary to me. In a normal world, this July we would've seen 19 cx including the 2 new kids in town, WO & TS. Who know's what the count will be NEXT July?

bb

What gate are they using for the SJD flight?
 
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hawaiian717
Posts: 3474
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:35 am

SANFan wrote:
I didn't realize HA was flying in and out of SAN in July; did they start OGG and then drop it?


HA returned on July 15 with the A321neo to HNL.

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