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SDguy
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:00 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Question: What is the new construction taking place to the east of the Commuter Terminal, along Harbor Drive? It appears to be a cargo facility...I probably have missed the discussion on it, so forgive me if this has been discussed before...


Made an account to post this. That's the new belly cargo facility, it will be finished in December.

Image

Belly cargo is currently handled in three building just to east of T2. They need to be moved to make room for the new terminal.

Image

Image source: Packet from the last SDRAA Capital Improvement Program Oversight Committee meeting
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:12 am

StlHsvSfoSan wrote:
is that new building going to house administrative/Port of San Diego offices (whatever is in the old Commuter Terminal/PSA Hangar) ? They would need those offices before knocking down the old commuter terminal (correct me if I am wrong about the Commuter Terminal being knocked down to put in Terminal 1).

blacksoviet wrote:
I thought that the administrative offices are going to be built on McCain Rd where the temporary buildings are now.

That is correct 'soviet. And as of last week, it appears the new administration bldg is on hold. I think the board is most interested in getting the new T1 built. (Keeping the total cost of projects down at this time is also very important.)

Hopefully someone will find out what that construction is. It does seem that it's right in the middle of the new portion of T1 to be built first (the east end.) But since they haven't even started creating blueprints or even initial design concepts yet, it just can't be part of new terminal construction. Maybe it's got something to do with water collection, or pre-construction utilities work... It could be some totally different project that's already been approved and funded and it ready to get under way. I'll try to see if I can go back and find any possibilities.

bb
 
cheapflier
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:33 am

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
Airspace Lounge is reopen FWIW

That's good. I hear the construction on the planned Primeclass Lounge in T2W was indefinitely suspended months ago. I was really looking forward to having another independent lounge option.
 
WN732
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:47 pm

SDguy wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Question: What is the new construction taking place to the east of the Commuter Terminal, along Harbor Drive? It appears to be a cargo facility...I probably have missed the discussion on it, so forgive me if this has been discussed before...


Made an account to post this. That's the new belly cargo facility, it will be finished in December.

Image

Belly cargo is currently handled in three building just to east of T2. They need to be moved to make room for the new terminal.

Image

Image source: Packet from the last SDRAA Capital Improvement Program Oversight Committee meeting


So terminal 1 is going to look almost exactly like AUS.
 
mentaisupa
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:01 pm

I've heard there's no longer an AA agent at the Airspace Lounge. Does anyone know if this is a permanent change or is it something that'll be brought back as AA brings up their non-hub lounge network?
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:21 pm

They will probably demolish the three cargo buildings next year after the Airline Support Building is completed.

What is in those portable buildings west of Gate 51?
 
AAtakeMeAway
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:42 pm

mentaisupa wrote:
I've heard there's no longer an AA agent at the Airspace Lounge. Does anyone know if this is a permanent change or is it something that'll be brought back as AA brings up their non-hub lounge network?


Oh I hope it's not permanent. The AAngels (I believe they all worked at the former SAN Admirals Club) in the Airspace Lounge are some of the best in the system IMO.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:55 pm

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
mentaisupa wrote:
I've heard there's no longer an AA agent at the Airspace Lounge. Does anyone know if this is a permanent change or is it something that'll be brought back as AA brings up their non-hub lounge network?


Oh I hope it's not permanent. The AAngels (I believe they all worked at the former SAN Admirals Club) in the Airspace Lounge are some of the best in the system IMO.

Why did they close the Admirals Club?
 
AAtakeMeAway
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:12 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
AAtakeMeAway wrote:
mentaisupa wrote:
I've heard there's no longer an AA agent at the Airspace Lounge. Does anyone know if this is a permanent change or is it something that'll be brought back as AA brings up their non-hub lounge network?


Oh I hope it's not permanent. The AAngels (I believe they all worked at the former SAN Admirals Club) in the Airspace Lounge are some of the best in the system IMO.

Why did they close the Admirals Club?


To make room for the Airspace Lounge (beyond that I don't know).
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:27 pm

When did USAir sell the Commuter Terminal to the Port of San Diego?
 
SDguy
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:07 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
They will probably demolish the three cargo buildings next year after the Airline Support Building is completed.

What is in those portable buildings west of Gate 51?


At the moment those are the field offices for AECOM, Jacobs Engineering, and Turner-Flatiron aka all the consultants for the new terminal.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:25 pm

SDguy wrote:
Made an account to post this. That's the new belly cargo facility, it will be finished in December.

Good job SDguy! I apologize to all (particularly to PSA') for not seeing the correct pic that showed where the new construction was; I think I saw another that looked like the new construction was further west on the field, right where the new T1 was to be built.

Yes, that belly-cargo building, located way down toward the southeast end of the airport property, has been approved and is necessary before any demolition of the existing airline cargo facilities can happen so it would have to be finished early on in the process.

Again, thanks SDguy for finding and reporting this info, and welcome to the thread! I hope you continue to post (and answer other questions for us!)

WN732 wrote:
So terminal 1 is going to look almost exactly like AUS.

Is it? I think the similarity to any other airports will really have to wait to see the final design renderings; all we know right now is the very general shape of the new terminal - an elongated rectangle - which is due as much as anything to space limitations! (Don't a lot of airports use that general shape?) There actually have been some early drawings made some months back of what the front side (landside) of the new T1 could look like, but again, nothing official. Link: https://www.san.org/airport-adp

bb
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:39 pm

SANFan wrote:
According to my records (which I believe to be correct), this is the timeline of early BA in SAN:

Jan 1988 - BCAL first flew LGW-LAX-SAN using their 747s;
Nov 2 1989 - BA DC-10s Speedbirds replaced the BCAL 747s; BA service ended at the end of 1990;
Jul 1, 1996 - BA LGW-PHX-SAN began using the DC-10;
Mar 29, 1998 - for the first time, a BA 744 Speedbird replaced the DC-10;
Mar 25, 2001 - first nonstop SAN-LGW (using a T7), coincided with the opening of the new FIS facilities located in T2E (gates 20 & 21);
Oct 27, 2002 - airport switched from LGW to LHR; due to the effects of 9/11, BA service ended (again!) on Oct 26, 2003;
Jun 1, 2011 - 3rd times the charm - daily 772 SAN-LHR re-starts, and it's permanent this time!!!!

Hope this helps guys.

bb


Thanks for the timeline SanFan.

Back in October 2002 BA ran an ad in the newspaper for $198 round-trip. (I should've clipped and framed it). With taxes the ticket came out to something like $280. This was the age before baggage fees and the trip took advantage of Veteran's day weekend. The plane was a 777.

Looking back, around the early 2000s is when airlines were pushing for people to use their websites and deals were awesome. I flew to to the east coast for less than $200 several times back then.

I'd love to hear of other super-cheap deals people scored out of SAN.
 
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Coronado990
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:34 pm

Wow, did San Diego fall off the map?

I was curious with the new Amazon distribution center going up on Otay Mesa, will there be any cargo flights to Brown Field to support and supply that operation? Even some ATR's would be cool there.

Also, looking forward to BA resuming operations at SAN with the 787 starting NOV 1st.
SFO=NoCal LAX=SoCal SAN=LoCal
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:17 pm

Coronado990 wrote:
Wow, did San Diego fall off the map?

I was curious with the new Amazon distribution center going up on Otay Mesa, will there be any cargo flights to Brown Field to support and supply that operation? Even some ATR's would be cool there.

Also, looking forward to BA resuming operations at SAN with the 787 starting NOV 1st.

Can Brown Field handle a 762?
 
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Coronado990
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:43 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Coronado990 wrote:
Wow, did San Diego fall off the map?

I was curious with the new Amazon distribution center going up on Otay Mesa, will there be any cargo flights to Brown Field to support and supply that operation? Even some ATR's would be cool there.

Also, looking forward to BA resuming operations at SAN with the 787 starting NOV 1st.

Can Brown Field handle a 762?


I have seen Cargojet from Canada bring in 767-200's.
SFO=NoCal LAX=SoCal SAN=LoCal
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:25 pm

Coronado990 wrote:
Wow, did San Diego fall off the map?

I was curious with the new Amazon distribution center going up on Otay Mesa, will there be any cargo flights to Brown Field to support and supply that operation? Even some ATR's would be cool there.

Also, looking forward to BA resuming operations at SAN with the 787 starting NOV 1st.


I agree. Two weeks of checking the forum and nothing new came up. :-(

If there's a new Amazon distribution center at Otay Mesa, I wonder if they'll try to figure a way to get their packages to the FedEx facility just across the border at TIJ?

I found an article about the mysterious Fedex flights between TIJ and SAN that I want to share: https://onemileatatime.com/fedex-flight ... co-border/

I also want to share a recent video showing how far along the new TIJ international terminal (clearly being built with So CA people in mind) is now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTCoXUHxNas&t=567s It should be ready next year. The best parts are the video are from minutes 6 through 8. Lots of new airplane parking spaces are being set up. In the video you can see the FedEx facility and the ex-China Air flight 006 747SP featured in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo70pOc2nKE She's a tough old bird :-)
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:52 am

Question: Which aircraft models can be considered to have been made in, or have a many parts from, San Diego? I know Convair, General Dynamics, and Rohr used to have a big presence here.

The only recent examples I can think of are the engine cowlings for the 787 and the Predator drones. Older examples I think of are the MD-11 and the Catalina flying boats. I know San Diego was an aviation manufacturing hotbed from the 1950s to 80s.

I can only vaguely remember the Convair factory next to the airport where the car rental structure is located now. Please fill me in with some aviation history.
 
tootallsd
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:32 pm

The old Convair factory in Rose Canyon was the first Price Club later integrated into Costco. Rohr also made the first batches of BART cars.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:00 pm

I looked back a ways in the thread and didn't see a recent BA-update so just in case anyone is still planning on heading for SAN to see the 787 Speedbird come to town soon, don't bother.

As far as I can parse together, it looks like service is currently scheduled -- with a big dose of Hope -- to begin on Dec 2. The current BA schedules show a 787 oping 5x weekly (exc on Tue and Sat) which I believe is the same schedule as previously announced, only now starting about a month later. I personally can't be terribly optimistic that this will really happen.

I believe LH is showing us on their skeds starting about March of 2021 and I haven't seen anything encouraging from Japan recently.

The talk at the SDCRAA board meetings lately seems to be -- and this is from Hampton himself and even Kim Becker -- airport management is now in a mode of "preserving and restoring" what we used to have pre-COVID regarding air service at SAN rather than working on securing anything new. They are not only talking about our int'l service portfolio but, I believe, domestic as well.

I've read in some threads that some of the smaller US airports are throwing out incentive packages again, such as reduced or eliminated landing fees, rent reductions, etc., just to get the carriers back. I'm sure the mega stations don't need to but I wonder if SAN is doing so; I have not seen anything mentioned about that.

SAN's int'l air service was rather modest compared to the Big guys but then so was our traffic: BA, JL, LH, WK, AC and WS were it and I am, at this point, just hoping that we get them all back at some point. (I'm pretty doubtful about WK but I certainly hope the big 3 will return by the end of 2021 at some level of service, plus AC and WS which I do expect will return.)

My gut continues to tell me that only when there is a working and safe COVID vaccine available around the world, will life, (including air service!) start to return toward normal.

Whatever updates (and/or corrections) anyone can provide would be most welcome!

bb
 
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UPlog
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:59 pm

BA seems to be updating its schedule month to month like the US carriers are doing, so quite possible flight keeps getting cancelled and pushed back.

On fees, many airports are already offering incentives. LAX for example instituted 50% reduction in landing and parking fees through the end of December and suppose they will extend this into 2021 as well.
I fly your boxes
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:02 pm

UPlog wrote:
BA seems to be updating its schedule month to month like the US carriers are doing, so quite possible flight keeps getting cancelled and pushed back.

On fees, many airports are already offering incentives. LAX for example instituted 50% reduction in landing and parking fees through the end of December and suppose they will extend this into 2021 as well.


I’m not sure if it’s this way anymore but PHL was covering most fees for airlines. This would make sense why BA returned there.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:58 am

vedatil4 wrote:
Question: Which aircraft models can be considered to have been made in, or have a many parts from, San Diego? I know Convair, General Dynamics, and Rohr used to have a big presence here.

The only recent examples I can think of are the engine cowlings for the 787 and the Predator drones. Older examples I think of are the MD-11 and the Catalina flying boats. I know San Diego was an aviation manufacturing hotbed from the 1950s to 80s.

I can only vaguely remember the Convair factory next to the airport where the car rental structure is located now. Please fill me in with some aviation history.

Wasn’t the MD-11 fuselage built by Convair? I think it was the last thing built by them before they tore down the airport factory.
Last edited by blacksoviet on Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:01 am

tootallsd wrote:
The old Convair factory in Rose Canyon was the first Price Club later integrated into Costco. Rohr also made the first batches of BART cars.

Did they ever have a runway in Rose Canyon or did they just make parts and ship by rail?
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:05 am

Southwest has removed the jetway from Gate 2. Gate 2 can now only be used for turboprop or regional jet boarding. Does anybody know what the last flight to use Gate 2 was?
 
SDguy
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:39 am

vedatil4 wrote:
Question: Which aircraft models can be considered to have been made in, or have a many parts from, San Diego? I know Convair, General Dynamics, and Rohr used to have a big presence here.

The only recent examples I can think of are the engine cowlings for the 787 and the Predator drones. Older examples I think of are the MD-11 and the Catalina flying boats. I know San Diego was an aviation manufacturing hotbed from the 1950s to 80s.

I can only vaguely remember the Convair factory next to the airport where the car rental structure is located now. Please fill me in with some aviation history.


In the WW2 era Consolidated Aircraft built PBY Catalinas, PB2Y Coronados, and B-24 Liberators at Lindbergh Field. Ryan Aeronautical built also the PT-22 Recruit at KSAN during this era. Immediately postwar Convair produced the CV-240 and related variants at the Consolidated plant, while Ryan manufactured the Navion (originally designed by North American). In the 1950s Convair built the F-102 Delta Dagger and F-106 Delta Dart, while Ryan started their highly successful line of Firebee drones. Also in this timeframe Convair built a plant in Kearny Mesa to manufacture the Atlas missile.

This doesn't include small scale and experimental models such as the Ryan FR Fireball and Vertijet, or the Convair Tradewind, Sea Dart and Pogo. Also pre-WW2 Ryan built the Spirit of St Louis in San Diego, that's why the airport was named Lindbergh field.

Convair was bought and gutted by GD in the 60s. Part of the Convair factory became NAVWAR, the rest was demolished to make room for the rental car center. The Kearny Mesa factory is now an apartment block.

Northrup Grumman bought Ryan in the late 90s, but they were more interested in the personnel/technology than the factory. NG shipped the engineers up to Poway, and they're still there, developing NG's unmanned aircraft. There was some sort of dispute soon after the move, so around this time a group of former Ryan employees left and founded General Atomics next door. More recently alumni from both companies broke off and founded Kratos D&S in Mira Mesa, another large player in the drone industry. The Ryan factory was demolished about 10 years ago, the new T1 will be built on the site.
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:49 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Southwest has removed the jetway from Gate 2. Gate 2 can now only be used for turboprop or regional jet boarding. Does anybody know what the last flight to use Gate 2 was?


The airport removed it as part of the terminal improvement project that included expansion of WN’s baggage infrastructure that expanded into the gate 2 ramp space. My understanding is gate 2 effectively no longer exists and will not accommodate any aircraft.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
ibthebigd
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:30 am

Is Southwest using both Banjo's in T1 right now?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:58 am

SDguy wrote:
vedatil4 wrote:
Question: Which aircraft models can be considered to have been made in, or have a many parts from, San Diego? I know Convair, General Dynamics, and Rohr used to have a big presence here.

The only recent examples I can think of are the engine cowlings for the 787 and the Predator drones. Older examples I think of are the MD-11 and the Catalina flying boats. I know San Diego was an aviation manufacturing hotbed from the 1950s to 80s.

I can only vaguely remember the Convair factory next to the airport where the car rental structure is located now. Please fill me in with some aviation history.


In the WW2 era Consolidated Aircraft built PBY Catalinas, PB2Y Coronados, and B-24 Liberators at Lindbergh Field. Ryan Aeronautical built also the PT-22 Recruit at KSAN during this era. Immediately postwar Convair produced the CV-240 and related variants at the Consolidated plant, while Ryan manufactured the Navion (originally designed by North American). In the 1950s Convair built the F-102 Delta Dagger and F-106 Delta Dart, while Ryan started their highly successful line of Firebee drones. Also in this timeframe Convair built a plant in Kearny Mesa to manufacture the Atlas missile.

This doesn't include small scale and experimental models such as the Ryan FR Fireball and Vertijet, or the Convair Tradewind, Sea Dart and Pogo. Also pre-WW2 Ryan built the Spirit of St Louis in San Diego, that's why the airport was named Lindbergh field.

Convair was bought and gutted by GD in the 60s. Part of the Convair factory became NAVWAR, the rest was demolished to make room for the rental car center. The Kearny Mesa factory is now an apartment block.

Northrup Grumman bought Ryan in the late 90s, but they were more interested in the personnel/technology than the factory. NG shipped the engineers up to Poway, and they're still there, developing NG's unmanned aircraft. There was some sort of dispute soon after the move, so around this time a group of former Ryan employees left and founded General Atomics next door. More recently alumni from both companies broke off and founded Kratos D&S in Mira Mesa, another large player in the drone industry. The Ryan factory was demolished about 10 years ago, the new T1 will be built on the site.


Thank you for the thorough response.

Unfortunately I was born too late to be part of the aerospace scene. :-( It must've been exciting to work on the Vertijet and the Sea Dart projects with almost unlimited federal funding.
 
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Coronado990
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:12 pm

Don't forget Convair designed the B-36 Peacemaker here but production was moved to Ft Worth. However, modifications were later made here when they added the jet engines to the wingtip. My dad remembers a car that was toppled at Laurel and Pacific Highway while a B-36 was warming up. That's when the blast fence was added. One B-36 caught fire on a test run and crashed just off Mission Beach while on finale to RWY 9. Makes a interesting read... http://www.ub88.org/researchprojects/b3 ... maker.html
SFO=NoCal LAX=SoCal SAN=LoCal
 
vedatil4
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:28 pm

Coronado990 wrote:
Don't forget Convair designed the B-36 Peacemaker here but production was moved to Ft Worth. However, modifications were later made here when they added the jet engines to the wingtip. My dad remembers a car that was toppled at Laurel and Pacific Highway while a B-36 was warming up. That's when the blast fence was added. One B-36 caught fire on a test run and crashed just off Mission Beach while on finale to RWY 9. Makes a interesting read... http://www.ub88.org/researchprojects/b3 ... maker.html


Thanks for sharing. The B-36 is an important piece of Cold War history. I didn't know about the incident off Mission Beach.

We should just go back to not having a blast barrier. Betcha people would hang on to the fence for dear life as planes take off. ;-)

This story reminded me of the Curtis Helldiver found at the bottom of Otay Lake. https://pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/sb2c/19866.html But that plane wasn't built here.

Wasn't the Coronado 990 built in San Diego? That passenger airplane was sleek and fast. It could fly close to the sound barrier while guzzling fuel.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:31 pm

Don't forget that the Convair 880 and 990's were all built in San Diego! There's even the story of Howard Hughes arriving one day, taking an 880 out for his own personal test flight, screwing up the traffic in the area, landing it, and never returning to the plant or San Diego ever again...
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:45 pm

Silver1SWA wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Southwest has removed the jetway from Gate 2. Gate 2 can now only be used for turboprop or regional jet boarding. Does anybody know what the last flight to use Gate 2 was?

The airport removed it as part of the terminal improvement project that included expansion of WN’s baggage infrastructure that expanded into the gate 2 ramp space. My understanding is gate 2 effectively no longer exists and will not accommodate any aircraft.

Aloha, R. I believe that is true - gate 2 is no more.

ibthebigd wrote:
Is Southwest using both Banjo's in T1 right now?

To the best of my knowledge, WN exclusively uses all 8 of the east rotunda gates, 3 thru 10, plus the 2 gates at the far east end of T1, gates 1 & 1A -- maybe they'll rename it "2" -- plus a few of the gates in the west rotunda for overflow, I think gates 11-13 mostly. That gives them use of ~12 gates which is currently WAY more than enough for their schedule now, or in the future. (In fact, I'm not sure they are even using gates 1 and 1A now as that would require staffing the TSA check-point; if the gates are really not needed, I'm sure the airport or WN -- whomever pays for the TSA there -- would rather save that money. I just checked the flight status display for WN and I see no flights at all at gates 1-1A-2 and only 1 using gate 11 (in the west rotunda.)

Don't forget that WN has declared, and reduced service at SAN accordingly, that we will be a smaller 'non-growth' station in the future. Maybe that will change some day but while we approached 135 daily departures to about 34 destinations early this year, the advanced winter schedules (pre-COVID) of November & December 2020 reduced us to under 100 flights to between 20 and 25 destinations. Nonstop service from SAN no longer exists to ATL, ELP, OMA, MCO, PDX, PVR, SJD, SEA, GEG, & TPA. And I see that of all the new cities being announced recently by WN, none include any service to SAN as WN becomes more and more a traditional hub-and-spoke carrier. (And SAN can no longer be considered a focus city for WN, let alone a hub...)

On the positive side, it looks like we might finally get our HNL flight (set to begin on Nov 4) and ORF is still set to begin in January. (No sign of any OGG service however.)

One last note. I see on SAN's Sept 2020 Airport Traffic Report that WN's market share has fallen to 37%! That reflects some healthy slippage by SDIA's largest carrier...

bb
 
jplatts
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:48 pm

SANFan wrote:
Don't forget that WN has declared, and reduced service at SAN accordingly, that we will be a smaller 'non-growth' station in the future. Maybe that will change some day but while we approached 135 daily departures to about 34 destinations early this year, the advanced winter schedules (pre-COVID) of November & December 2020 reduced us to under 100 flights to between 20 and 25 destinations. Nonstop service from SAN no longer exists to ATL, ELP, OMA, MCO, PDX, PVR, SJD, SEA, GEG, & TPA. And I see that of all the new cities being announced recently by WN, none include any service to SAN as WN becomes more and more a traditional hub-and-spoke carrier. (And SAN can no longer be considered a focus city for WN, let alone a hub...)


I probably did not expect WN to add nonstop service out of SAN to any recently announced new destinations outside of Hawaii.

I also certainly do not expect WN to ever add SAN-PSP nonstop service with SAN-PSP being only 85 miles long, which is shorter than any WN nonstop routes within the contiguous U.S.

I could see the return of daily SAN-ATL nonstop service on WN being a possibility once demand returns to normal levels with
(a) ATL being a "hub" for WN,
(b) WN having nonstop service out of ATL to a few East Coast destinations not served nonstop from LAS, PHX, DAL, HOU, or BNA, and
(c) WN recently adding a few other nonstop routes out of ATL.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:54 pm

jplatts wrote:
SANFan wrote:
And I see that of all the new cities being announced recently by WN, none include any service to SAN as WN becomes more and more a traditional hub-and-spoke carrier. (And SAN can no longer be considered a focus city for WN, let alone a hub...)

I probably did not expect WN to add nonstop service out of SAN to any recently announced new destinations outside of Hawaii.

I also certainly do not expect WN to ever add SAN-PSP nonstop service with SAN-PSP being only 85 miles long, which is shorter than any WN nonstop routes within the contiguous U.S.


I definitely wasn't thinking of PSP when I made my statement...

But since you brought it up, I actually think a flight between SAN and PSP on the right-sized aircraft (hint, hint, AS) might work very well. The drive between the 2 cities is between 3 and 4 hours (and 150-175 miles depending on the route used.) There is no direct, straight shot route because of pesky mountains in the way!

For history buffs, Western used to fly the route for years using Electras, then 737s, on the routing: SAN-PSP-LAS. (Perhaps before the Electra joined the WA fleet, they might have even flown the route using props - that I don't remember and I don't have my old timetables handy right now.)

I really think an AAG EMJ with 76 seats would do well and I would replicate the entire WA flight, SAN-PSP-LAS! ( Because I think a PSP-Vegas flight would do pretty well too and I don't believe anyone is flying it currently are they?) Remember that AS recently announced SAN-SBA and that journey is not much longer than the car route between SAN and PSP!

bb
 
SBAer
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:32 am

SANFan wrote:
jplatts wrote:
SANFan wrote:


I really think an AAG EMJ with 76 seats would do well and I would replicate the entire WA flight, SAN-PSP-LAS! ( Because I think a PSP-Vegas flight would do pretty well too and I don't believe anyone is flying it currently are they?) Remember that AS recently announced SAN-SBA and that journey is not much longer than the car route between SAN and PSP!

bb


In a pre-covid ideal world, I think LF was probably eying an eventual expansion between PSP and LAS.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:32 am

Are there any aircraft being parked long-term at the Commuter Terminal? Now that Southwest Airlines has that newly expanded baggage building, I doubt Terminal 1 will be coming down anytime soon. That won’t be for at least five years.
 
vedatil4
Posts: 144
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:59 am

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the recent news that the Marines are exploring the possibility of closing MCRD. Could a second runway be built there?
 
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Coronado990
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:46 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the recent news that the Marines are exploring the possibility of closing MCRD. Could a second runway be built there?


I think they will try to put it on the national register of historic places if it isn't already.
SFO=NoCal LAX=SoCal SAN=LoCal
 
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SANFan
Posts: 5433
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:17 pm

RoutesOnline mentioned yesterday that HA was going to resume SAN-OGG:
...and from Maui’s Kahului Airport (OGG) to San Diego (SAN) and San Francisco (SFO), utilizing its narrowbody A321neo aircraft.

No details such as a start date or frequency were included but randomly searching HA's flight skeds I found HA37 flying nonstop to Maui on 12/17, 12/19, 12/21... The r/t appears more frequent in January but not quite Daily. (Note: I'm not positive that's the inaugural date of SAN-OGG service but it very well could be.)

HA's #15, SAN-HNL, appears to be a Daily 321 departing at 8:55am; OGG departs SAN at 9:40am.

Also, starting 11/1, AS will be flying from SAN to all 4 islands (as of now anyway) and WN will be (hopefully) starting SAN-HNL on Nov 4.

I'm happy to see Hawaii service returning, especially for the sake of the State and people of Hawaii but it's also nice to see SAN getting service back, piece by piece! Looks like next month we will finally have our 3 cx flying to The Islands to the West!

bb
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
Posts: 1140
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:38 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:09 pm

SANFan wrote:
jplatts wrote:
SANFan wrote:
And I see that of all the new cities being announced recently by WN, none include any service to SAN as WN becomes more and more a traditional hub-and-spoke carrier. (And SAN can no longer be considered a focus city for WN, let alone a hub...)

I probably did not expect WN to add nonstop service out of SAN to any recently announced new destinations outside of Hawaii.

I also certainly do not expect WN to ever add SAN-PSP nonstop service with SAN-PSP being only 85 miles long, which is shorter than any WN nonstop routes within the contiguous U.S.


I definitely wasn't thinking of PSP when I made my statement...

But since you brought it up, I actually think a flight between SAN and PSP on the right-sized aircraft (hint, hint, AS) might work very well. The drive between the 2 cities is between 3 and 4 hours (and 150-175 miles depending on the route used.) There is no direct, straight shot route because of pesky mountains in the way!

For history buffs, Western used to fly the route for years using Electras, then 737s, on the routing: SAN-PSP-LAS. (Perhaps before the Electra joined the WA fleet, they might have even flown the route using props - that I don't remember and I don't have my old timetables handy right now.)

I really think an AAG EMJ with 76 seats would do well and I would replicate the entire WA flight, SAN-PSP-LAS! ( Because I think a PSP-Vegas flight would do pretty well too and I don't believe anyone is flying it currently are they?) Remember that AS recently announced SAN-SBA and that journey is not much longer than the car route between SAN and PSP!

bb


I'm still waiting for SAN-BFL again. Everybody surrounding Bakersfield on all side has or has had a SAN flight or flights (SAN-LAX, SAN-SBA, SAN-SBP, SAN-FAT, SAN-LAS), but I'm still stuck with the circle of hell that is driving through Los Angeles...

In fact, it is now the same length of time driving from my house in San Diego to Bakersfield driving Interstate 15 all the way to Barstow to take Highway 58 into the Central Valley. Why not take 395? Because like everything else in California, development on this busy highway was allowed to proceed from nothing to urban sprawl overnight, with stoplights and city traffic spreading like a cancer northward. And now that Highway 58 is a freeway all the way from Barstow into the city of Bakersfield, it is faster than 395 will ever be.

If I could fly to Bakersfield, I'd put on a hazmat suit if need be. Anything to avoid Los Angeles. But probably not in my lifetime.
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1774
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:09 pm

I think it was back in January that Alaska announced SAN-SBP. I still think that flight will be launched someday.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:18 am

blacksoviet wrote:
I think it was back in January that Alaska announced SAN-SBP. I still think that flight will be launched someday.

AS's SAN-SBP service began flying on Jan 7 of this year and was NOT flying in April, or since. I'm not sure exactly when AS temporarily stopped flying the route due to COVID but as of now, it's back on the schedule as of Dec 1! Of course that certainly doesn't mean anything but I have the feeling AAG has the full intention of getting the route back in the air as soon as the traffic is at a viable level -- hopefully before the end of the year! (BTW, SAN-SBP was announced on Sept 4, 2019.)

Just to be clear, SAN-SBA was never officially announced by AS but the route appeared on their schedules in early August and service will begin on Nov 20. Lead time was about 3 1/2 months and this route is one of many AS has decided to offer during COVID as a way of attracting and serving mainly leisure travelers at a time when business travel is depressed. To my way of thinking SAN-SBP is prolly more of a business/education-oriented route and that's why it isn't operating now.

bb
 
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KLMatSJC
Posts: 781
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:24 am

SANFan wrote:
AS's SAN-SBP service began flying on Jan 7 of this year and was NOT flying in April, or since. I'm not sure exactly when AS temporarily stopped flying the route due to COVID

The last flight was actually April 8.
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
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SANFan
Posts: 5433
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:45 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
SANFan wrote:
AS's SAN-SBP service began flying on Jan 7 of this year and was NOT flying in April, or since. I'm not sure exactly when AS temporarily stopped flying the route due to COVID

The last flight was actually April 8.

Ah, thank you for the clarification, KLM'.

bb
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1774
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:40 am

KLMatSJC wrote:
SANFan wrote:
AS's SAN-SBP service began flying on Jan 7 of this year and was NOT flying in April, or since. I'm not sure exactly when AS temporarily stopped flying the route due to COVID

The last flight was actually April 8.

Is the SBP flight on a Q400?
 
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KLMatSJC
Posts: 781
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:16 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:14 am

blacksoviet wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
SANFan wrote:
AS's SAN-SBP service began flying on Jan 7 of this year and was NOT flying in April, or since. I'm not sure exactly when AS temporarily stopped flying the route due to COVID

The last flight was actually April 8.

Is the SBP flight on a Q400?

That was on a Skywest ERJ-175. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe the Q400s fly to CA at all anymore.
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
SDguy
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:40 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:42 am

vedatil4 wrote:
Thank you for the thorough response.

Unfortunately I was born too late to be part of the aerospace scene. :-( It must've been exciting to work on the Vertijet and the Sea Dart projects with almost unlimited federal funding.


San Diego still has a thriving aerospace industry, mainly centered around unmanned aerial vehicles. You can't see it because most of the work is classified. There are currently aircraft under development in San Diego that are far more revolutionary than the Sea Dart or Vertijet, at least in my opinion, and are definitely receiving more federal support than those projects could have ever dreamed.
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1415
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:24 am

SANFan wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
I think it was back in January that Alaska announced SAN-SBP. I still think that flight will be launched someday.

AS's SAN-SBP service began flying on Jan 7 of this year and was NOT flying in April, or since. I'm not sure exactly when AS temporarily stopped flying the route due to COVID but as of now, it's back on the schedule as of Dec 1! Of course that certainly doesn't mean anything but I have the feeling AAG has the full intention of getting the route back in the air as soon as the traffic is at a viable level -- hopefully before the end of the year! (BTW, SAN-SBP was announced on Sept 4, 2019.)

Just to be clear, SAN-SBA was never officially announced by AS but the route appeared on their schedules in early August and service will begin on Nov 20. Lead time was about 3 1/2 months and this route is one of many AS has decided to offer during COVID as a way of attracting and serving mainly leisure travelers at a time when business travel is depressed. To my way of thinking SAN-SBP is prolly more of a business/education-oriented route and that's why it isn't operating now.

bb


Not really sure what’s going on but SAN-SBA is now only showing 11/20-11/30 and then nothing until January.
 
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SANFan
Posts: 5433
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:31 am

ericm2031 wrote:
Not really sure what’s going on but SAN-SBA is now only showing 11/20-11/30 and then nothing until January.

Hmmmm, interesting find. I haven't had a chance yet to look over the Saturday-load AS schedules to see if anything major shows up.

I wonder if there might be an EMJ shortage (or crew or other support resource issue) that caused AS to eliminate this flight/route for the month of December? It certainly doesn't make any sense to start a brand new route and run it for 10 days... If there is some sort of issue causing this, hopefully it will be fixed shortly and we have our nonstop to SBA continuously from Nov 20!

bb

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