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Scooter
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:15 am

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
Sitting here in the Airspace Lounge at the airport that started my obsession with commercial aviation as a kid with their “Flight Times and News of the Port” wondering where DL was prior to T2W. Can you refresh my memory? Thanks!


I remember flying Delta out of T2 East (both a 757 and a 727) to CVG back in 1997 or so. Gates 31 and 32 if I recall correctly.

That's as far back as my memory goes. I'd also be curious to know where they were before that!
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PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:57 pm

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
Sitting here in the Airspace Lounge at the airport that started my obsession with commercial aviation as a kid with their “Flight Times and News of the Port” wondering where DL was prior to T2W. Can you refresh my memory? Thanks!


The oldest I can find, from 1980: http://www.departedflights.com/SAN0780.html

It looks like it was at the equally-as-awful-and-crowded-and-cramped T2, now T2E.

Even in 1989, they were at the same gates: http://www.departedflights.com/SAN89.html
 
AAtakeMeAway
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:26 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
AAtakeMeAway wrote:
Sitting here in the Airspace Lounge at the airport that started my obsession with commercial aviation as a kid with their “Flight Times and News of the Port” wondering where DL was prior to T2W. Can you refresh my memory? Thanks!


The oldest I can find, from 1980: http://www.departedflights.com/SAN0780.html

It looks like it was at the equally-as-awful-and-crowded-and-cramped T2, now T2E.

Even in 1989, they were at the same gates: http://www.departedflights.com/SAN89.html


Thanks PSA! What an awful place lol (T2E)
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:49 pm

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
AAtakeMeAway wrote:
Sitting here in the Airspace Lounge at the airport that started my obsession with commercial aviation as a kid with their “Flight Times and News of the Port” wondering where DL was prior to T2W. Can you refresh my memory? Thanks!


The oldest I can find, from 1980: http://www.departedflights.com/SAN0780.html

It looks like it was at the equally-as-awful-and-crowded-and-cramped T2, now T2E.

Even in 1989, they were at the same gates: http://www.departedflights.com/SAN89.html


Thanks PSA! What an awful place lol (T2E)


You're welcome! And I agree: any plan for SAN that doesn't involve demolition of T2E isn't worth doing.
 
AZTECFAN
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:18 pm

I don't think a demo and rebuild of Terminal 2E is part of the current plan. I believe T2E will be remodeled, but not torn down.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:35 pm

I just looked at the flight history for HA16 and see that over the past few days it's been switching back and forth between the A330 and A321neo.
 
AAtakeMeAway
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:24 pm

AZTECFAN wrote:
I don't think a demo and rebuild of Terminal 2E is part of the current plan. I believe T2E will be remodeled, but not torn down.


Oh sweet Jesus .... well hopefully the remodel includes some expanding and widening around gates 27/29/31 - those are some of the worst mainline gates in the AA system IMO.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:59 pm

AZTECFAN wrote:
I don't think a demo and rebuild of Terminal 2E is part of the current plan. I believe T2E will be remodeled, but not torn down.

As has been posted up-thread, the current project awaiting approval of the EIS and due to start construction in late 2021 is for the replacement of T1 and accompanying work on the field, both airside and landside. It is due to be completed in fall 2026.

The next major project to be undertaken by the airport should include the demolition of T2E, with construction of replacement gates connecting T1 and T2W. That will be an entirely separate project requiring its own funding, approvals, EIS submission, design and construction. It will obviously be many years away.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no major remodeling of T2E on the books. Maybe it's up to AS and AA if they want to add some windows, widen the concourse or add more concessions. I would love for AS to add a Board Room somewhere in T2E. I've heard nothing about such actions or even if it would be possible...

bb
 
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Scooter
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:16 pm

Rumor has it there is a new Primeclass lounge coming to T2 in the near future. Details are thin at this point (not sure if it will be T2W or E), but it looks interesting nonetheless.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/new-loung ... irmingham/
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blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:34 pm

Does the Allegiant gate belong to AA or AS?
 
GRUIAD
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:36 pm

Scooter wrote:
Rumor has it there is a new Primeclass lounge coming to T2 in the near future. Details are thin at this point (not sure if it will be T2W or E), but it looks interesting nonetheless.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/new-loung ... irmingham/


Lounge will be in T2W with great views of the International ramp.
 
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LindyFlight
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:45 pm

Speaking of Allegiant, did they pull out of SAN or is their service seasonal now?
 
GRUIAD
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:03 am

Seasonal service - T1
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:23 am

T1W is going to be packed when Allegiant comes back, with JetBlue already there and Southwest always taking up at least one gate. There’s got to be a way that AS can let them use one of their gates.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:04 pm

SANFan wrote:
AZTECFAN wrote:
I don't think a demo and rebuild of Terminal 2E is part of the current plan. I believe T2E will be remodeled, but not torn down.

As has been posted up-thread, the current project awaiting approval of the EIS and due to start construction in late 2021 is for the replacement of T1 and accompanying work on the field, both airside and landside. It is due to be completed in fall 2026.

The next major project to be undertaken by the airport should include the demolition of T2E, with construction of replacement gates connecting T1 and T2W. That will be an entirely separate project requiring its own funding, approvals, EIS submission, design and construction. It will obviously be many years away.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no major remodeling of T2E on the books. Maybe it's up to AS and AA if they want to add some windows, widen the concourse or add more concessions. I would love for AS to add a Board Room somewhere in T2E. I've heard nothing about such actions or even if it would be possible...

bb


The problem with T2E isn't just crowding, it is the poorly designed gates placed incredibly close together, preventing simultaneous usage. Gates 29 and 31 can only be used sequentially, not simultaneously, and the same is true for 28/30/32. And the seating area? Not enough for one gate at each of these positions, much less two or three!

Expansion possibilities? Zero. Tarmac space is maxed out, and in fact, leaving T2E as-is would restrict future expansion of the planned T1. Amenities? No room to expand. Additional seating for gates 20-27? Can't happen. Any kind of "upgrades" to bring T2E upo to the level of T2W and the new T1 (when completed) will simply be polishing a turd. Its time has come and gone, but it needs to eventually go away.

Image

Just in case anyone out there hasn't ever seen or dealt with the ridiculous layout of T2E, here's a map. Picture 450+ people waiting around in gates 28/30/32 trying to claim one of the barely 100 seats.

By the way, if you haven't done a Google Image Search recently for SAN airport terminal map, it's good for a laugh - not a single image came up with a completed Terminal 2 West. Not one. Granted, I could have gone to san.org and gotten the map there, but I want to publicly "shame" ifly.com, as their map of SAN is more than six years out of date. How embarrassing for them!
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:53 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
SANFan wrote:
The problem with T2E isn't just crowding, it is the poorly designed gates placed incredibly close together, preventing simultaneous usage. Gates 29 and 31 can only be used sequentially, not simultaneously, and the same is true for 28/30/32. And the seating area? Not enough for one gate at each of these positions, much less two or three!

Expansion possibilities? Zero. Tarmac space is maxed out, and in fact, leaving T2E as-is would restrict future expansion of the planned T1. Amenities? No room to expand. Additional seating for gates 20-27? Can't happen. Any kind of "upgrades" to bring T2E upo to the level of T2W and the new T1 (when completed) will simply be polishing a turd. Its time has come and gone, but it needs to eventually go away.

Image

Just in case anyone out there hasn't ever seen or dealt with the ridiculous layout of T2E, here's a map. Picture 450+ people waiting around in gates 28/30/32 trying to claim one of the barely 100 seats.

By the way, if you haven't done a Google Image Search recently for SAN airport terminal map, it's good for a laugh - not a single image came up with a completed Terminal 2 West. Not one. Granted, I could have gone to san.org and gotten the map there, but I want to publicly "shame" ifly.com, as their map of SAN is more than six years out of date. How embarrassing for them!

Let's keep in mind that the airport recently (just a few years ago) did some remodeling of T2E; it would be apparent if the current terminal map were overlaid on the map of say 10 years ago. Gates were moved, the holding room out by gate 30 was expanded, and more room was created near gate 27 for new concessions. I think the airport has done all it can to with T2E but they did try, doing what they could. (If I remember correctly, a docking port was even added somewhere near gate 24 to allow use of Dulles-type mobile lounges to bring pax from remotely parked airplanes to the terminal.)

If you can look at a current satellite view of the airport such as Google Earth, the grey parts of the roof of T2E indicate the expanded/new potions of the concourse that were added, including gates 24, 26 & 28 (now known as 28A & 28B) as well as the area between gates 25 & 27. (I wish I knew how to post maps & pictures here.) To me, that shows fairly clearly what has been done to help add room to the concourse.

But you're right, PSA' I don't think there are any more opportunities for improvement or expansion of the old terminal so we're prolly stuck with what is there now. And the terminal still feels (and is!) claustrophobic and cramped. I imagine AS would like more gates so they can continue to expand here but that likelihood seems very low. I don't know about AA but my guess would be they are fine with what they have, especially considering that it looks like one of their few (8) routes offered from SAN, JFK, is being axed. As these are the only two residents of T2E, I hope they can exist there without alienating too many of their customers!

bb
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:31 pm

T2E would have the perfect amount of seats if AA and AS operated only DC-9s.

T2E obviously wasn’t designed for heavy 738 use.
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:30 am

blacksoviet wrote:
T2E would have the perfect amount of seats if AA and AS operated only DC-9s.

T2E obviously wasn’t designed for heavy 738 use.


Back in the day, T2E saw a lot of widebodies. DL operated their L-10-11s and later 767s, AA operated DC-10s, BA used a far gate for their 744s, and NW had DC-10s. Most of the widebodies used T2E.
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blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:43 am

SANMAN66 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
T2E would have the perfect amount of seats if AA and AS operated only DC-9s.

T2E obviously wasn’t designed for heavy 738 use.


Back in the day, T2E saw a lot of widebodies. DL operated their L-10-11s and later 767s, AA operated DC-10s, BA used a far gate for their 744s, and NW had DC-10s. Most of the widebodies used T2E.

How could BA use a far gate for their 744 when the FIS was located at T1E?

I don’t think T2E had a FIS until the 1990s (Gates 20, 21, and 22).

In the 1980’s I think Gates 1, 1A, and 2 were the only gates capable of handling international arrivals.

I wonder if BA ever flew the 747-200 to SAN back in the day or did it not have enough range? A 742 might have made a fuel stop in Phoenix.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:13 am

SANMAN66 wrote:
Back in the day, T2E saw a lot of widebodies. DL operated their L-10-11s and later 767s, AA operated DC-10s, BA used a far gate for their 744s, and NW had DC-10s. Most of the widebodies used T2E.

And WA, in their later years here, was located in T2E as well up until they were absorbed by DL. Remember, WA had their ticket counter on the ground floor level of the terminal, in about the center, not too far from the former FIS facilities pax exit into the terminal. I can't remember if there were other ticket counters on the lower level of T2E -- I think maybe so -- but I do remember that the baggage claim was across the pedestrian bridge in the building that now houses the USO. That's where the car rental counters were also!

Wally of course flew the original int'l flight in and out of SAN, MEX, so it was natural for them to be near the customs hall. They also flew DC-10s to HNL, which DL continued flying for a while after the takeover, then switching to the L-1011s.

Ahhhhh, the good old days! :old:

bb
 
StlHsvSfoSan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:55 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Image

Just in case anyone out there hasn't ever seen or dealt with the ridiculous layout of T2E, here's a map. Picture 450+ people waiting around in gates 28/30/32 trying to claim one of the barely 100 seats.


I think the original design on T2E was intended for passengers to wait at the "base" of the concourse (where Gate 22 and the US News & World Report/Artisan Market/Airspace Lounge are located now. Then, as flights were announced for boarding, passengers would walk to the appropriate gate to board the aircraft, instead of waiting in the gate area. I think there were a couple kiosk-style stands in that waiting area (one to buy a hot dog/drink and one for books/magazines. There were very few seats out near the gates.

I don't know if there was other reasons for doing it this way (lack of space?), but I remember reading this (in the newspaper, probably) about why it was designed that way.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:35 am

SANFan wrote:
SANMAN66 wrote:
Back in the day, T2E saw a lot of widebodies. DL operated their L-10-11s and later 767s, AA operated DC-10s, BA used a far gate for their 744s, and NW had DC-10s. Most of the widebodies used T2E.

And WA, in their later years here, was located in T2E as well up until they were absorbed by DL. Remember, WA had their ticket counter on the ground floor level of the terminal, in about the center, not too far from the former FIS facilities pax exit into the terminal. I can't remember if there were other ticket counters on the lower level of T2E -- I think maybe so -- but I do remember that the baggage claim was across the pedestrian bridge in the building that now houses the USO. That's where the car rental counters were also!

Wally of course flew the original int'l flight in and out of SAN, MEX, so it was natural for them to be near the customs hall. They also flew DC-10s to HNL, which DL continued flying for a while after the takeover, then switching to the L-1011s.

Ahhhhh, the good old days! :old:

bb

How did they get bags from the plane to the USO Building?
 
GRUIAD
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:11 am

How could BA use a far gate for their 744 when the FIS was located at T1E?

I don’t think T2E had a FIS until the 1990s (Gates 20, 21, and 22).

BA 744 used a gate at the end of T2E when the flight operated on a LON-PHX-SAN pattern, therefore pax were progressively cleared at PHX. So essentially the PHX SAN leg was a domestic arrival.
 
GRUIAD
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:25 am

How could BA use a far gate for their 744 when the FIS was located at T1E?

I don’t think T2E had a FIS until the 1990s (Gates 20, 21, and 22).

BA 744 used a gate at the end of T2E when the flight operated on a LON-PHX-SAN pattern, therefore pax were progressively cleared at PHX. So essentially the PHX SAN leg was a domestic arrival.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:01 am

Speaking of BA, I think I just saw a 747 taking off from Runway 27 in the 1970s Negus livery.
 
SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:28 am

GRUIAD wrote:
BA 744 used a gate at the end of T2E when the flight operated on a LON-PHX-SAN pattern, therefore pax were progressively cleared at PHX. So essentially the PHX SAN leg was a domestic arrival.


That's what I meant when I said "far gate".I couldn't remember what gate in T2E, but you're right that BA used that gate when they flew LON-PHX-SAN.
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SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:36 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Speaking of BA, I think I just saw a 747 taking off from Runway 27 in the 1970s Negus livery.


Most likely it was one of BA's retrojets. Last year they painted four of their 744s in retro colors.
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blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:01 am

SANMAN66 wrote:
GRUIAD wrote:
BA 744 used a gate at the end of T2E when the flight operated on a LON-PHX-SAN pattern, therefore pax were progressively cleared at PHX. So essentially the PHX SAN leg was a domestic arrival.


That's what I meant when I said "far gate".I couldn't remember what gate in T2E, but you're right that BA used that gate when they flew LON-PHX-SAN.

Gate 31 is the AA domestic 747 gate in T2E. I know it can handle a 747-400 but I wonder if a 747-8 could use that gate.
 
Wingtips56
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:24 am

StlHsvSfoSan wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Image

Just in case anyone out there hasn't ever seen or dealt with the ridiculous layout of T2E, here's a map. Picture 450+ people waiting around in gates 28/30/32 trying to claim one of the barely 100 seats.


I think the original design on T2E was intended for passengers to wait at the "base" of the concourse (where Gate 22 and the US News & World Report/Artisan Market/Airspace Lounge are located now. Then, as flights were announced for boarding, passengers would walk to the appropriate gate to board the aircraft, instead of waiting in the gate area. I think there were a couple kiosk-style stands in that waiting area (one to buy a hot dog/drink and one for books/magazines. There were very few seats out near the gates.

I don't know if there was other reasons for doing it this way (lack of space?), but I remember reading this (in the newspaper, probably) about why it was designed that way.

That is how I remember it, my first flight out of SAN that wasn't out of the PSA banjo gate. Big grey room with rows of seats, and you were meant to wait until your flight was called. Then a long walk down a rather sinister narrow concourse flanked with simple doors opening into each jetbridge. No seating out there, coffee stands or other amenities. No warm and fuzzies at all. No views of the ramp, which you know we a.nuts live for.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

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SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:35 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
How did they get bags from the plane to the USO Building?


The old USO was located in the same area as the baggage claim, just beyond the pedestrian bridge. The military pax simply used the same baggage carousels as everyone else (whatever flight they arrived on).
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DL717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:41 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
AAtakeMeAway wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

The oldest I can find, from 1980: http://www.departedflights.com/SAN0780.html

It looks like it was at the equally-as-awful-and-crowded-and-cramped T2, now T2E.

Even in 1989, they were at the same gates: http://www.departedflights.com/SAN89.html


Thanks PSA! What an awful place lol (T2E)


You're welcome! And I agree: any plan for SAN that doesn't involve demolition of T2E isn't worth doing.


They can only do so much at one time. They’re spending $3 billion. Besides, they already have a plan for it. They just aren’t doing all of it right now. Probably because of cost.

Page 8:

http://san.org/Portals/0/Documents/Envi ... n_2020.pdf
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SANMAN66
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:48 pm

Wingtips56 wrote:
That is how I remember it, my first flight out of SAN that wasn't out of the PSA banjo gate. Big grey room with rows of seats, and you were meant to wait until your flight was called. Then a long walk down a rather sinister narrow concourse flanked with simple doors opening into each jetbridge. No seating out there, coffee stands or other amenities. No warm and fuzzies at all. No views of the ramp, which you know we a.nuts live for.


The whole idea for building T1/T2E was designed not for pax to hang around the terminals when they arrived, but it was for pax to grab their bags and hurry up to leave, like a bus station, that's why those terminals are so utilitarian with lack of amenities. T2W changed all that.
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timf
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:04 pm

SANFan wrote:
And WA, in their later years here, was located in T2E as well up until they were absorbed by DL. Remember, WA had their ticket counter on the ground floor level of the terminal, in about the center, not too far from the former FIS facilities pax exit into the terminal. I can't remember if there were other ticket counters on the lower level of T2E -- I think maybe so -- but I do remember that the baggage claim was across the pedestrian bridge in the building that now houses the USO. That's where the car rental counters were also!

NW and DL both had their ticket counters in the lower level of T2E through the 1990s, while AA and BA were always upstairs. Once T2W and the T2E FIS opened, DL moved to the original T2W lobby (where they remain to this day), and NW moved upstairs to the counters right of the security checkpoint. Of course, the remote baggage claim also closed and became USO when T2W opened.
 
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SANFan
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:47 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
How did they get bags from the plane to the USO Building?

My recollection is that it was an underground tunnel with a conveyor belt system. The baggage carts unloaded on the airside of T2E and the bags went down, thru the tunnel and over to the arrival/baggage claim bldg. where they were sent back up and onto the carousels.

And yes, I agree about the original set-up of T2E with the big holding room at the south end of the terminal -- that was where pax were to sit and wait until their flight was called for boarding out at the gates. There was also seating out at the north end of the concourse where the 30-gates are which offered at least some nice airside observation. The terminal actually worked pretty well but the concourse where the gates are was still narrow, claustrophobic, sterile and uninteresting. I hate to say it but it's much better now, post-remodel, than it was when built and opened!

bb
 
ibthebigd
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:54 am

Could a A220 takeoff and land from CLD. That new Breeze Airline which will focus on alternative Airports could consider CLD?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
blacksoviet
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:59 am

ibthebigd wrote:
Could a A220 takeoff and land from CLD. That new Breeze Airline which will focus on alternative Airports could consider CLD?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I don’t think CLD can handle anything larger than a E-175.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:46 pm

SANFan wrote:
I would love for AS to add a Board Room somewhere in T2E. I've heard nothing about such actions or even if it would be possible...


Seems unlikely. Alaska Lounge members have access to the Airspace Lounge.
 
cheapflier
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:49 pm

SANFan wrote:
My recollection is that it was an underground tunnel with a conveyor belt system. The baggage carts unloaded on the airside of T2E and the bags went down, thru the tunnel and over to the arrival/baggage claim bldg. where they were sent back up and onto the carousels.


There is still a portion of that system there. If you walk on the traffic island past the taxi stand toward the USO you can see the openings to the baggage belt system that are covered up with metal plates. I'd guess they're there for potential future use if they needed to move curbside check-in or something.

blacksoviet wrote:
T1W is going to be packed when Allegiant comes back, with JetBlue already there and Southwest always taking up at least one gate. There’s got to be a way that AS can let them use one of their gates.


Shouldn't be too bad. Allegiant only runs a handful of flights. Thursday and Sunday have only one flight (ELP). Monday and Friday are the busy days with three flights spread out. Looks like SY dropped its PDX flight so there's room.
 
cheapflier
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:21 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:36 pm

Anyone have thoughts on the new lounge coming to SAN? https://news.get.com/primeclass-opening ... san-diego/

Best intel I can find is the Primeclass lounge will go upstairs near Gates 46 and 47. It will be 9,900 square feet with a gym and maybe a shower, have 205-275 seats at a cost of $4.2 million. My guess is the first phase will open over the summer when rent payments are due and the second phase will open in 2021.

I imagine this will cut into Airspace's revenue. BA and JL customers complain about how far the lounge is from the gates. AC and LH have the benefit of using UA's.
 
friendlyskies22
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:58 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:22 pm

anyone know where the old UA hangar is going to be moved to and who currently owns it? One of the T-1 rebuild docs said it can't be demolished as it's historic, and said it would be moved to the north side, maybe by the GA area or the cargo area.
Thanks
 
blacksoviet
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Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:51 pm

Why can’t they move the old hangar to the GA area and use it as a rental hangar? It should be big enough for the largest private jets. Maybe they could fit two.

Another idea is for Alaska to take it over and use it for painting or maintenance. Is it big enough for a 737?

They could also turn the hangar into a museum and put an old UA plane inside it. I think AA owns the hangar because I think I saw a AA logo on the back door once when I was leaving the Commuter Terminal on a shuttle bus.

They were supposed to preserve the historic Ryan hangar on Harbor Dr but there was a back room deal to have it destroyed as soon as the crew arrived to demolish the rest of the Teledyne Ryan Northrup site.
 
friendlyskies22
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:58 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:29 am

Re: UA SAN Hangar...pretty small, about 75x100x30H...no go on a 737 (117x130x41H) There's a Menzies sign on it recently with a lot of their fuel trucks parked around it, so they may be doing veh maint in there. Possibly a bunch of hazmat on or underneath it. Would be a nice mini museum, but would need some ramp space to park a decent aircraft outside it for display. A DC-3 should fit inside however! (95x64x16H)
UA needs a museum to showcase some of their iconic aircraft, like one of those 747 beauties sitting out at VCV and the DC-8 sitting in downtown Los Angeles, but they'd need a lot more space than SAN has to offer...look what DL has done in ATL!
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1748
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:14 pm

[*]
ibthebigd wrote:
Could a A220 takeoff and land from CLD. That new Breeze Airline which will focus on alternative Airports could consider CLD?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Yes the plane has great short field capabilities.
It's now the idle aircraft for airport likes CLD.
Look and London city and the A220 for the best example of stage length without weight restrictions.
With capacity restrictions Airline are using now.

It was also supposed to be the big game changer for Porter at Billy Bishop at Toronto city airport But the Jet Ban killed there plans.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
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Coronado990
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Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:56 am

Sounds like some cool adds on G4 this summer....BIL, FSD, IDA, MFR, TUL and LAS non-stop from SAN starting in JUN!
We're up.
 
cheapflier
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:21 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:32 am

Coronado990 wrote:
Sounds like some cool adds on G4 this summer....BIL, FSD, IDA, MFR, TUL and LAS non-stop from SAN starting in JUN!

I'm excited! Don't remember direct service to many of these cities.

BIL (Sunday/Thursday), FSD (Monday/Friday), IDA (Monday/Friday), MFR (Sunday/Thursday), TUL (Wednesday/Saturday), LAS (X2).

I was hoping they might base a crew in San Diego (since Allegiant doesn't really do hotels), but it looks like they're tagging onto existing routes using crew from LAS. For example LAS-SAN-BIL-SAN-LAS or LAS-SAN-TUL-SAN-LAS. For FSD and IDA they're coming to SAN and going back.
 
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SANFan
Posts: 5241
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:32 pm

Coronado990 wrote:
Sounds like some cool adds on G4 this summer....BIL, FSD, IDA, MFR, TUL and LAS non-stop from SAN starting in JUN!

Wow! And I thought G4 was pretty much dead in SAN what with everything going seasonal (I thought) -- that SAN was becoming a seasonal station. (Yeah, I know SAN seasonal...)

I wonder if ELP, EUG, BLI, and or SCK remain on the route map? I'll have to check into that.

I guess things might be getting a bit more crowded in T1W this summer... If NK ever re-awakens here, watch out!

Also interesting that SAN.org actually issued a presser about this new service on G4! Link: https://www.san.org/News/Article-Detail ... -allegiant

Vegas service is apparently 6 days a week. And all this new service ops for only about 2.5 months -- into August. (Also, the 'original' 4 routes are still flying, according to the PR.)

bb
 
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Coronado990
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:12 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:58 pm

cheapflier wrote:
Coronado990 wrote:
Sounds like some cool adds on G4 this summer....BIL, FSD, IDA, MFR, TUL and LAS non-stop from SAN starting in JUN!

I'm excited! Don't remember direct service to many of these cities.

BIL (Sunday/Thursday), FSD (Monday/Friday), IDA (Monday/Friday), MFR (Sunday/Thursday), TUL (Wednesday/Saturday), LAS (X2).

I was hoping they might base a crew in San Diego (since Allegiant doesn't really do hotels), but it looks like they're tagging onto existing routes using crew from LAS. For example LAS-SAN-BIL-SAN-LAS or LAS-SAN-TUL-SAN-LAS. For FSD and IDA they're coming to SAN and going back.


The MFR comes down to SAN and back similar to EUG. The flight to FSD is an out-and-back from SAN originating from LAS. The BIL flight is the one that baffles me as the LAS flight arrives SAN at 9:30am on TH, SU but I see no departures until 4:12pm to BIL. The flight from ELP arrives at 10:34am on TH, SU (departs 11:14am) so the LAS flight would have to move out of it's way for the ELP flight to use the gate but I do not see a scheduled departure at 10:20am on TH, SU. Maybe another city is in the works. PVU would fit but it does not make since from a pilot stand point because it would be a very long day from their base if you include the out-and-back to BIL later in the day.
We're up.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
Posts: 1015
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:38 pm

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:19 pm

So who is the primary market for Allegiant with their SAN flights? Is it Tulsans looking for a San Diego vacation? Or are San Diegans looking to do business in Tulsa (albeit twice a week)?

Every airport listed is "connectable" from San Diego (with Las Vegas obviously being served on multiple non-stops!), but Allegiant believes they can poach passengers from other airlines. And if they can successfully, good for them; however, who is their market?
 
JCrnBaja
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:56 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:37 am

cheapflier wrote:
Coronado990 wrote:
Sounds like some cool adds on G4 this summer....BIL, FSD, IDA, MFR, TUL and LAS non-stop from SAN starting in JUN!

I'm excited! Don't remember direct service to many of these cities.

BIL (Sunday/Thursday), FSD (Monday/Friday), IDA (Monday/Friday), MFR (Sunday/Thursday), TUL (Wednesday/Saturday), LAS (X2).

I was hoping they might base a crew in San Diego (since Allegiant doesn't really do hotels), but it looks like they're tagging onto existing routes using crew from LAS. For example LAS-SAN-BIL-SAN-LAS or LAS-SAN-TUL-SAN-LAS. For FSD and IDA they're coming to SAN and going back.


As was I. Being an ex G4 F/A, hoping this is just to gauge demand and wondering if down the road, that might be the idea. :cool2:
 
AAtakeMeAway
Posts: 438
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:59 am

Re: San Diego Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:00 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
So who is the primary market for Allegiant with their SAN flights? Is it Tulsans looking for a San Diego vacation? Or are San Diegans looking to do business in Tulsa (albeit twice a week)?

Every airport listed is "connectable" from San Diego (with Las Vegas obviously being served on multiple non-stops!), but Allegiant believes they can poach passengers from other airlines. And if they can successfully, good for them; however, who is their market?


The former - leisure travelers to San Diego. Business travelers are not their market.

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