Welcome to the Swiss Aviation Thread 2020. Please continue your discussion and to post your updates here.

Link to previous thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411893

Happy New Year everyone.

I am wondering since the 2nd daily ORD flight (Seasonal during Summer) will now be operated by UA, LX seems to have extra capacity for a additional route given that IAD and KIX will be covered through the additional B77W's to replace the A343's on the NRT route and indirectly an A333 used seasonally to MIA on LX64. Hence together with TLV loosing long haul equipment, for the time being on the LX252/253 roations LX seems to have additional long haul capacity untless this will be used for simultanious heavy maintenance checks?

LXA340 wrote:

Happy New Year everyone.

I am wondering since the 2nd daily ORD flight (Seasonal during Summer) will now be operated by UA, LX seems to have extra capacity for a additional route given that IAD and KIX will be covered through the additional B77W's to replace the A343's on the NRT route and indirectly an A333 used seasonally to MIA on LX64. Hence together with TLV loosing long haul equipment, for the time being on the LX252/253 roations LX seems to have additional long haul capacity untless this will be used for simultanious heavy maintenance checks?

The UA operation ORD-ZRH is not replacing the second seasonal LX frequency, but operated as third frequency during the Summer. LX will continue with two flights to/from ORD (LX006/007 and LX008/009). UA operation is in addition to that.

Apparently, GVA is celebrating its centenary in 2020.

https://vimeo.com/378278158/2bc012592c

GVA 2019 numbers

17'926'625 passengers +1.4% (+245,535) No wonder it feels so crowded in there at peak hours...

Cargo 84'927 tonnes -10.9%

186'043 movements -0.6%

https://www.gva.ch/en/Site/Geneve-Aerop ... baisse-des

GVA also urgently needs a refurbishment especially in the area where security is. Last time I had to use it it was a horrible experience. That was three years ago through and it might be better now but back then it was awful.

FluidFlow wrote:

GVA also urgently needs a refurbishment especially in the area where security is. Last time I had to use it it was a horrible experience. That was three years ago through and it might be better now but back then it was awful.

They've made the checkin area bigger already and there are new security scanners. It's improved a lot in terms of efficiency and now it's really quick from the entrance to departure gate. Though aesthetically inside it could still do with some work!

jghealey wrote:

FluidFlow wrote:

GVA also urgently needs a refurbishment especially in the area where security is. Last time I had to use it it was a horrible experience. That was three years ago through and it might be better now but back then it was awful.

They've made the checkin area bigger already and there are new security scanners. It's improved a lot in terms of efficiency and now it's really quick from the entrance to departure gate. Though aesthetically inside it could still do with some work!

Last year there were talks here about expanding or building a new terminal to cope with demand. Anything on that?

https://www.gva.ch/en/Site/Geneve-Aerop ... ds-projets

Here are the projects planned by GVA airports.

As from the summer timetable the A319's are gone from the LX timetable. HB-IPV will see regular ops for the last time today, and the 2 remaining frames soldier on until the end of March. I expect -IPV to be parted out after 24 years of service with SR & LX.
As from March 15th the first A320NEO's (HB-JDA & JDB) will start to be integrated in the network, so delivery of at least 2 frames is planned within 2 months from now. Exact entry to service is a bit too early to determine yet.

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:

jghealey wrote:

FluidFlow wrote:

GVA also urgently needs a refurbishment especially in the area where security is. Last time I had to use it it was a horrible experience. That was three years ago through and it might be better now but back then it was awful.

They've made the checkin area bigger already and there are new security scanners. It's improved a lot in terms of efficiency and now it's really quick from the entrance to departure gate. Though aesthetically inside it could still do with some work!

Last year there were talks here about expanding or building a new terminal to cope with demand. Anything on that?

Short answer yes. But the initial project call "Cointrin Vision", that should have seen the terminal building build above the current arrival parking, and departure drop off have been canceled. The initial call project was seen as outdated (to much shops while they don't attract that much customers nowadays). The new airport director said he wanted to build "above the current terminal, but without interfering with passenger flow, or reducing capacity". This will take some time to plan, and to build. I have picture of a rendering, but still hasn't figure how to play pictures on this forum!

The new project is called Cap 2030 and will be built between 2024 and 2031 (at least that’s the current schedule) as described by SR380.
Would be interested in having a look at this rendering. You can use an image upload website such as imgur.com or imgshare.to and post the link.

HB-IPV just landed in DGX / St. Athan, most probably for parting out.

Wizz Air increases BEG-BSL from 2 to 3 weekly. easyJet also operates this route with 3 weekly flights.

SWISS has cancelled all flights to PEK & PVG starting 31JAN ( LH & OS the same ) due to the Corona virus.

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:

jghealey wrote:

FluidFlow wrote:

GVA also urgently needs a refurbishment especially in the area where security is. Last time I had to use it it was a horrible experience. That was three years ago through and it might be better now but back then it was awful.

They've made the checkin area bigger already and there are new security scanners. It's improved a lot in terms of efficiency and now it's really quick from the entrance to departure gate. Though aesthetically inside it could still do with some work!

Last year there were talks here about expanding or building a new terminal to cope with demand. Anything on that?

GVA is building the new east-wing terminal for long-haul flights, the works should be completed this year and it is looking great. https://newsroom.gva.ch/press-kit-east-wing/

In addition, they expanded the check-in area by displacing the main façade. The security lines have been updated and heavily expanded in the past few years, including the addition of several new scanners, of which two that can scan baggage containing liquids and electronics. The airport is also rebuilding the baggage processing system, which involves some very big works.

What the terminal really needs from a passenger perspective is a beautification work to update its looks, but there are some other large works plans including a rebuilding of the main terminal from 2026 so I guess there's no point in spending many resources on this at the moment.

Since NRT is upgraded now to 77W and ongoing cancelation of flights to PVG/PEK until end of February, LX has some considerable 343 capacity available right now. Any news or ideas what they going to do (on short term)? Could we see equipment upgrades within EU?

Yes, at least 9 & 10 FEB will see 343 ops to ATH.

LX1838/39 - 09FEB ops 343
LX1830/31 - 10FEB ops 343

Air Senegal is opening GVA from 18 June, 3 times a week on Monday, Thursday and Saturday using A321. Flights are now bookable.

Not sure which plane they will use since Air Senegal does not have A321 currently.

xorrygva wrote:

Air Senegal is opening GVA from 18 June, 3 times a week on Monday, Thursday and Saturday using A321. Flights are now bookable.

Not sure which plane they will use since Air Senegal does not have A321 currently.

Was it RK or SR that served the route the last time?

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:

xorrygva wrote:

Air Senegal is opening GVA from 18 June, 3 times a week on Monday, Thursday and Saturday using A321. Flights are now bookable.

Not sure which plane they will use since Air Senegal does not have A321 currently.

Was it RK or SR that served the route the last time?

If I remember correctly, it was SR until 1996 using A310.

Nice development on Africa from GVA over the last 3 years with Air Mauritius, Ethiopian Airlines, Kenya Airways and now Air Senegal.

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:

xorrygva wrote:

Air Senegal is opening GVA from 18 June, 3 times a week on Monday, Thursday and Saturday using A321. Flights are now bookable.

Not sure which plane they will use since Air Senegal does not have A321 currently.

Was it RK or SR that served the route the last time?

SR stopped serving DKR from GVA in 1996 when they cancelled longhaul services ( except JFK) from GVA while RK lasted until they went bust in 2002 or 2003.

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:

xorrygva wrote:

Air Senegal is opening GVA from 18 June, 3 times a week on Monday, Thursday and Saturday using A321. Flights are now bookable.

Not sure which plane they will use since Air Senegal does not have A321 currently.

Was it RK or SR that served the route the last time?

SR stopped serving DKR from GVA in 1996 when they cancelled longhaul services ( except JFK) from GVA while RK lasted until they went bust in 2002 or 2003.

Air Senegal's A321Ceos have 165 seats in a 2 class cabin layout with 16 flat beds in business class + 149 in economy. They are the first African airline to offer a premium flat bed product on board any narrow body aircraft.

Arrival time into GVA is at 0825 local on Mon Thu Sat and departure is at 0955.

Convenient connections both ways via DSS are available to ABJ BKO RAI CKY BJL and NKC.

P2P market demand between GVA and DSS was 28,000 round trip pax over the past year + another 34,000 is LYS-DSS-LYS out of which some no doubt will drive to GVA to take this flight. So in total just the p2p market combined between the two cities is over 60,000 pax annually without stimulation. One way average fare on GVA-DSS is also quite high i.e. US$ 310 with YQ included.

Cathay Pacific will reduce ZRH to 6 weekly from 10 Mar 20



https://twitter.com/winglets747/status/ ... 27328?s=20

I was shocked to see scheduled flights from LUGANO. BTW. their web-page is hilarious, showing a grounded SAAB2000 of Adria - with covered engines and peeled of titles: https://www.luganoairport.ch/en/

SILVER AIR will operate from Lugano to Elba Island and Lošinj Island: https://www.flightsandtravels.ch/

So the airport will re-open for the 3x weekly scheduled, passenger flights with ground handling etc.? I know, the airport is open for flight schools etc., but not requiring staff for check-in or lost and found!

behramjee wrote:

Air Senegal's A321Ceos have 165 seats in a 2 class cabin layout with 16 flat beds in business class + 149 in economy. They are the first African airline to offer a premium flat bed product on board any narrow body aircraft.

Arrival time into GVA is at 0825 local on Mon Thu Sat and departure is at 0955.

Convenient connections both ways via DSS are available to ABJ BKO RAI CKY BJL and NKC.

P2P market demand between GVA and DSS was 28,000 round trip pax over the past year + another 34,000 is LYS-DSS-LYS out of which some no doubt will drive to GVA to take this flight. So in total just the p2p market combined between the two cities is over 60,000 pax annually without stimulation. One way average fare on GVA-DSS is also quite high i.e. US$ 310 with YQ included.

Air Sénégal don't even have any A321s...

MoonC wrote:

behramjee wrote:

Air Senegal's A321Ceos have 165 seats in a 2 class cabin layout with 16 flat beds in business class + 149 in economy. They are the first African airline to offer a premium flat bed product on board any narrow body aircraft.

Arrival time into GVA is at 0825 local on Mon Thu Sat and departure is at 0955.

Convenient connections both ways via DSS are available to ABJ BKO RAI CKY BJL and NKC.

P2P market demand between GVA and DSS was 28,000 round trip pax over the past year + another 34,000 is LYS-DSS-LYS out of which some no doubt will drive to GVA to take this flight. So in total just the p2p market combined between the two cities is over 60,000 pax annually without stimulation. One way average fare on GVA-DSS is also quite high i.e. US$ 310 with YQ included.

Air Sénégal don't even have any A321s...

They are getting 2 A321s with 1ACT fitted in from end March on dry lease basis. Flights have been opened for sale across all major gds systems.

There have been scheduled flights in summer from Lugano to Elba for the last few years.

These are not large aircraft and I imagine they will not need lots of staff. The person at the checkin desk will be the same person at the gate looking at boarding passes and also doing the dispatch paperwork. The firecrew will probably also load/unload the hold luggage. I imagine the lost/found office might be temporarily closed with phonecalls diverted to the mobile phone of the person doing checkin/dispatch

No need to have lots of people on payroll to handle a small aircraft less than once per day

behramjee wrote:

MoonC wrote:

behramjee wrote:

Air Senegal's A321Ceos have 165 seats in a 2 class cabin layout with 16 flat beds in business class + 149 in economy. They are the first African airline to offer a premium flat bed product on board any narrow body aircraft.

Arrival time into GVA is at 0825 local on Mon Thu Sat and departure is at 0955.

Convenient connections both ways via DSS are available to ABJ BKO RAI CKY BJL and NKC.

P2P market demand between GVA and DSS was 28,000 round trip pax over the past year + another 34,000 is LYS-DSS-LYS out of which some no doubt will drive to GVA to take this flight. So in total just the p2p market combined between the two cities is over 60,000 pax annually without stimulation. One way average fare on GVA-DSS is also quite high i.e. US$ 310 with YQ included.

Air Sénégal don't even have any A321s...

They are getting 2 A321s with 1ACT fitted in from end March on dry lease basis. Flights have been opened for sale across all major gds systems.

Ow, do you have a source for the A321s please? We did try to search for where they might come from but Google has yielded no results. I know the flights are open for booking, I don't doubt that they would find the A321s from somewhere. You used the present tense for their A321s, hence my rejection of the claim, as they don't really have any right this moment in their fleet.

SRGVA67 wrote:

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:

xorrygva wrote:

Air Senegal is opening GVA from 18 June, 3 times a week on Monday, Thursday and Saturday using A321. Flights are now bookable.

Not sure which plane they will use since Air Senegal does not have A321 currently.

Was it RK or SR that served the route the last time?

SR stopped serving DKR from GVA in 1996 when they cancelled longhaul services ( except JFK) from GVA while RK lasted until they went bust in 2002 or 2003.

I don’t remember seeing regular RK flights after 1995. I believe RK stopped schedule fights back then. I only spotted cargo planes after 1995.

It's official. Today Air Serbia announced six new destinations among which is Geneva - currently served from Belgrade by easyJet three times per week.

BEG-GVA 1-3---- 07.05-09.10
BEG-GVA ----5-- 18.00-20.05

GVA-BEG 1-3---- 09.55-11.50
GVA-BEG ----5-- 20.50-22,45

These flights will offer convenient connections to JU's Balkan network as well as destinations such as Larnaca, Beirut, Tel Aviv, Cairo, Moscow and so on.

Flights start in June 2020 and will be operated with the A319.

LX will downgauge ZRH-HKG-ZRH ops from 77W's to daily A340-300's from 01March onwards. The good thing is that all 340's have been recently refurbished!

First A320NEO will arrive in ZRH on the 20th of FEB (HB-JDA)

DALCE wrote:

LX will downgauge ZRH-HKG-ZRH ops from 77W's to daily A340-300's from 01March onwards.

Do you know where the additional 77W will fly to?

Anyone know what the local mood is amongst the people living in Ticino canton on the referendum on Lugano airport in the spring ?
Is it fairly evenly divided or is there an overwhelming majority in one direction ?
If the voters decide against the airport,does this just mean no more public money or does the airport have to close completely ?

The people in Bolzano voted against further public cash for Bolzano airport, yet it remains open and will have holiday charter flights to the beach in summer 2020. I can't imagine the Govt in Bern would be happy about Lugano's runway theoretically being ripped up and turned into a business park...

First A320Neo delivered to SWISS, currently enroute XFW-ZRH as LX7549. ( MSN9246 )

davidjohnson6 wrote:

I can't imagine the Govt in Bern would be happy about Lugano's runway theoretically being ripped up and turned into a business park...

German carrier Private Wings wanted to launch flights from Lugano to GVA and ZRH, even opening a homebase with DO328 at the airport; with full support of the Canton of Ticino. But the BAZL (Federal Office of Civil Aviation) is denying route approvals for the carrier. Even the Minister of Transport Simonetta Sommaruga is refusing assistance. Article in German (use google-translator):

https://www.blick.ch/news/wirtschaft/lu ... 57036.html

DALCE wrote:

First A320Neo delivered to SWISS, currently enroute XFW-ZRH as LX7549. ( MSN9246 )

Left for Ljubljana not long after. What was the reason?

CarbonFibre wrote:

DALCE wrote:

First A320Neo delivered to SWISS, currently enroute XFW-ZRH as LX7549. ( MSN9246 )

Left for Ljubljana not long after. What was the reason?

according to this site, it's for preparations at LJU. But don't know what exactly...

https://sites.google.com/site/lhgroupfleet/swiss

Not sure why, but I assume to do some installations of equipment.
Will the 320NEO's get WiFi for example?? I don't know.

Will the phase out of the oldest A320/321 start after getting NEOs?

AFAIK the two remaining 319's will go first. The first 2 320CEO's have already left the fleet last year. HB-IJB & HB-IJF are scrapped in St. Athan.
I expect more to follow, but could imagine after peak-season.


edit : typo

DALCE wrote:

AFAIK the two remaining 319's will go first. The first 2 320CEO's have already left the fleet last year. HB-IJB & HB-IJF are scrapped in St. Athan.
I expect more to follow, but could imagine after peak-season.


edit : typo

But A319s are replaced by A223s, no?

A321Lufthansa wrote:

DALCE wrote:

AFAIK the two remaining 319's will go first. The first 2 320CEO's have already left the fleet last year. HB-IJB & HB-IJF are scrapped in St. Athan.
I expect more to follow, but could imagine after peak-season.


edit : typo

But A319s are replaced by A223s, no?

They (some) were kept longer to fill part of the AB void in ZRH (increasing DUS and TXL and some holiday destinations of Belair (partly through WK as well)). (You could say some 223s were used for expansion (more than planned).)

DUSZRH wrote:

A321Lufthansa wrote:

DALCE wrote:

AFAIK the two remaining 319's will go first. The first 2 320CEO's have already left the fleet last year. HB-IJB & HB-IJF are scrapped in St. Athan.
I expect more to follow, but could imagine after peak-season.


edit : typo

But A319s are replaced by A223s, no?

They (some) were kept longer to fill part of the AB void in ZRH (increasing DUS and TXL and some holiday destinations of Belair (partly through WK as well)). (You could say some 223s were used for expansion (more than planned).)

I've counted - the number of A320neos to be delivered this year perfectly replaces A320s HB-IJD - IJM as well as 3 321neos perfectly replace 1995-built A321s.

Anyone knows what‘s going on at BRN? Some kind of conference in town? Yesrerday I saw multiple bombardier type business jets and one 73G BBJ taking off and landing and just now a 738 BBJ landed at BRN.

Hello,

It might just be that we are right in the ski holidays. I also noticed a lot of business jet activity in Sion, Samedan and even Saanen yesterday (inbound from the UK, Russia and Europe). These airports are the closest to ski stations. There is also a lot of activity in GVA but there it is more difficult to know whether they represent business or ski holiday activity.
Helicopter activity is also running full speed in the Alps these days.

THY748i wrote:

Anyone knows what‘s going on at BRN? Some kind of conference in town? Yesrerday I saw multiple bombardier type business jets and one 73G BBJ taking off and landing and just now a 738 BBJ landed at BRN.

It‘s mostly ski tourism that drives the business aviation surge at BRN during the months December to March. On Saturday, there were over 50 biz av movements and on Sunday nearly 60 arrivals and departures. Ramp space was maxed out for most of the time - there were also two BBJs parked when I visited on Saturday (N737LE and VP-BWR). Also, multiple Bombardier Global, G650 and Falcon 7X/8X movements. Other notable visitors of the past days were a BBJ2 (N737M) and a A319CJ (M-KATE).

There‘s a local spotter site with good photos of most unique visitors: www.bernairnews.blogspot.com

after many, many years SWISS is inaugurating tomorrow the new longhaul route to KIX.
I think the last opening was to SFO...
probably not the ideal time to start a new route, especially to Far East... nevertheless, all the best to LX.

Does anyone have figures of loads for the first flight to KIX?