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mickster
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:56 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 6:05 pm

dodoma wrote:
Here's the video (in German) detailing the construction: https://vbvisual.ch/projektfilme/neues-dock-a/

dodoman, many thanks for sharing the video, absolutely fascinating and informative as I was not personally aware this was being conceived.
 
dodoma
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:00 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 7:45 pm

eurotrader85 wrote:
dodoma wrote:
Zurich Airport is planning to replace Terminal A with a taller and wider one.

Here's the video (in German) detailing the construction: https://vbvisual.ch/projektfilme/neues-dock-a/

Quick breakdown:

- New Terminal is being built right next to the old one
- once it's been built, the old one will be demolished
- the freed up space is used for new stands connected to the new terminal
- the extra space between Terminal A and B is used for 5 extra stands to compensate for the 7 that are going to be decommissioned
- it will take several years to finish (including a couple of years to prepare foundations)


Great video, do I understand right that there will be a passport control area allowing non-schengen intercontinental flights, like terminal E? Also how many extra gates overall will be added? (Entschuldigung, mein Schweizer Deutsch ist nicht so gut) :D


Yes there will be an extension to the passport control area which will lead into an extra non-schengen floor on terminal A. So basically it will be: 1st floor for Schengen flights, 2nd floor for transit / arriving passengers and 3rd floor for non-schengen flights.

As for the extra gates I counted 2 extra gates on the north side and another one on the south side, so that's 3 more jet bridges. Counting the reduced number of outside stands (minus 2) that's a net total of +1.
 
Bhoy
Posts: 548
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:50 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 9:59 pm

dodoma wrote:
Yes there will be an extension to the passport control area which will lead into an extra non-schengen floor on terminal A. So basically it will be: 1st floor for Schengen flights, 2nd floor for transit / arriving passengers and 3rd floor for non-schengen flights.

As for the extra gates I counted 2 extra gates on the north side and another one on the south side, so that's 3 more jet bridges. Counting the reduced number of outside stands (minus 2) that's a net total of +1.


There's a little bit more to it than that -

Currently, the A Pier has 10 Hard Stands on the North Side, and 7 on the South Side, as well as 7 Remote Stands between the Pier and Runway 28, all Category 'C' (up to 36m wingspan). 2 of the North Side of Pier B's Hard Stands can theoretically be used up to Category 'E' (up to 65m wingspan).

The New Pier creates 8 Category 'C' Hard Stands on the South Side, as well as 5 Category 'C' Remote Stands between Piers A and B. Due to the clearance between the two Piers and the Remote Stands, Pier B will be limited to category 'C' Hard Stands on it's North Side (although the South Side will be unaffected). The old Remote Stands towards Runway 28 will be decommissioned as that space will be needed for the new Taxiways. The North Side of the new A Pier will have Stands that can be configured either as 12 Category 'C' Hard Stands, or 8 Category 'E' Hard Stands (or a mixture of both).

So overall, Capacity goes from 24 Category 'C' Stands (and 2 Category 'E' Stands on the B Pier) to 25 Category 'C' Stands (with the 2 Category 'E' stands on Pier B limited to Category 'C'), OR 13 Category 'C' Stands plus 8 Category 'E' Stands, so there could actually be fewer Stands available near the Terminal [although there would be further Bus Gates available for remote Stands away from the main Apron] if used for the Longhaul Aircraft.

As regards the Levels, in the Terminal, they talk about a Schengen and a Non-Schengen level, with an Arrivals Corridor as a Mezzanine level between the two, linked to an expansion of the existing Customs Hall for Arriving/Transiting Passengers (This is only just touched on by the Video, as it's focusing more on how the building will be carried out, so there may well be more behind the scenes stuff about how this would all be achieved. Presumably, Schengen arrivals could exit straight to the Departures level for transfers rather than needing the Arrivals corridor)
 
eurotrader85
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:45 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 3:08 am

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
eurotrader85 wrote:
(Entschuldigung, mein Schweizer Deutsch ist nicht so gut) :D


That's German not Schwitzer Dütsch.


Sorry, I stand corrected.
 
Someone83
Posts: 4860
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 5:36 am

Isn't it more building a new pier A, and not really a terminal ;)

Anyway, looks like the current remote stands outside the current pier A will be moved to the area near SR Technic? And the pier will be build in modules on the other side of the airport?
 
HBChris
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:51 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 9:31 am

Bhoy wrote:
dodoma wrote:
So overall, Capacity goes from 24 Category 'C' Stands (and 2 Category 'E' Stands on the B Pier) to 25 Category 'C' Stands (with the 2 Category 'E' stands on Pier B limited to Category 'C'), OR 13 Category 'C' Stands plus 8 Category 'E' Stands, so there could actually be fewer Stands available near the Terminal [although there would be further Bus Gates available for remote Stands away from the main Apron] if used for the Longhaul Aircraft.

I don't see the point about fewer stands near the terminal. That's only the case if they increase the ratio of code E aircraft. Is that what you meant? Overall they gain a maximum of 3 code C stands at the piers. When counting in the remote stands they gain only 1 code C (detailed numbers below)

One important thing not mentioned in the video is that the non-Schengen level is only an option and might be built at a later stage. I assume that they won't add an additional level to the building later but rather built only the shell initially and do the interior fittings later for the non-Schengen level.

Some more details can be found here: https://espazium.s3.eu-central-1.amazon ... equali.pdf (German). It's the document describing the competition for the architecture/planning. Most of it is not very interesting but the first couple of pages describe the project in general including the fact that non-Schengen is optional. Also it mentions 2024-2026 as the timeframe for the main construction of pier A, the tower, changes to the baggage sorting system, the extension of the immigration hall and a new centralized bus arrival.


Stands (only those effected by the project):
Remote stands (old: north of A, new: between A and B peer)
Old: 7xC
New: 5xC

Pier A:
Old: 17xC *
New: 20xC OR 8xC (south) plus 8xE (north)

Pier B:
Old: 9xC OR 6xE (4 north, 2 south)
New: 9xC OR 6xC (north) plus 2xE (south)

Total - including remote stands
Old: 33xC OR 24xC plus 6xE
New: 34xC OR 19xC plus 10xE

Total - pier A/B only
Old: 26xC OR 17xC plus 6xE
New: 29xC OR 14xC plus 10xE

* some stands on the old Pier A could be used for D/E aircraft but this was rarely used since Dock is Schengen only and that's practically only Code C aircraft nowadays.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4064
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:54 am

airBaltic to terminate two routes:

RIX-GVA
VNO-ZRH

Furthermore, Riga to Zurich will be reduced from 11 to 7.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-28may20/
 
kaitak
Posts: 9907
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:52 am

Is there anywhere I can get a rough schedule as to when the next Swiss A320N/321N deliveries will be? Thinking of coming to Zurich (if travel permitted) in late August/September.

Also, has Swiss given any indication as to what are the next routes to be served by the Neos?
 
runway23
Posts: 2335
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:12 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:38 pm

kaitak wrote:
Is there anywhere I can get a rough schedule as to when the next Swiss A320N/321N deliveries will be? Thinking of coming to Zurich (if travel permitted) in late August/September.

Also, has Swiss given any indication as to what are the next routes to be served by the Neos?


The neo(s) rotate around the entire network from ZRH. LX is very dynamic in their usage of short haul aircraft with a different program every day.
 
Blerg
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:39 am

Tomorrow, 05.06.2020, Swiss resumes ZRH-BEG flights, first Star Alliance airline to do so.
 
DALCE
Posts: 1970
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:45 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:28 am

Many flights will restart the coming weeks from Swiss. Most flights will firstly be operated with the A220-fleet with some exceptions. LHR is currently seeing widebody ops, the A320's will be deployed to meet demand.

Any info to when the 2nd NEO will arrive in ZRH and if she needs retrofitting like -JDA?
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,223,E75,E90,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,
753,763,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
ME720
Posts: 182
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:40 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:03 pm

DALCE wrote:
Many flights will restart the coming weeks from Swiss. Most flights will firstly be operated with the A220-fleet with some exceptions. LHR is currently seeing widebody ops, the A320's will be deployed to meet demand.

Any info to when the 2nd NEO will arrive in ZRH and if she needs retrofitting like -JDA?


Did Switzerland open its borders for non Swiss residents?
 
DALCE
Posts: 1970
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:45 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:34 pm

I don’t know. I don’t live there ;)
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,223,E75,E90,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,
753,763,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
panamair
Posts: 4327
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:55 pm

ME720 wrote:
DALCE wrote:
Many flights will restart the coming weeks from Swiss. Most flights will firstly be operated with the A220-fleet with some exceptions. LHR is currently seeing widebody ops, the A320's will be deployed to meet demand.

Any info to when the 2nd NEO will arrive in ZRH and if she needs retrofitting like -JDA?


Did Switzerland open its borders for non Swiss residents?


No, not fully yet. They are allowing some unmarried couples etc to reunite for now. Effective June 15 the borders with France, Germany and Austria will be fully open, and they are aiming to open all other Schengen borders by July 6. Apparently they will decide in early July about non-EU citizens/residents
 
marcogr12
Posts: 430
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:14 pm

Does that mean that the rest of european travellers transiting thru France,Austria,Germany to get to Switzerland won't be quarantined arriving there?
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
DUSZRH
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:39 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
Does that mean that the rest of european travellers transiting thru France,Austria,Germany to get to Switzerland won't be quarantined arriving there?


There’s no quarantine in Switzerland. Transit won’t be enough. You’ll need separate tickets. So for your first flight you need to be allowed to enter DE/FR/AT.

( The German Dutch border is open and the Austrian to some of its neighbours; basically IT/ES/UK are still cutoff, some Eastern Europeans and nordics, too).
 
Blerg
Posts: 4064
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:18 pm

LX's ZRH-BEG today (A320neo) and tomorrow (A321) are both sold out. Seems like several A220 flights have already been upgraded to A320.
 
runway23
Posts: 2335
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:12 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:39 pm

panamair wrote:
ME720 wrote:
DALCE wrote:
Many flights will restart the coming weeks from Swiss. Most flights will firstly be operated with the A220-fleet with some exceptions. LHR is currently seeing widebody ops, the A320's will be deployed to meet demand.

Any info to when the 2nd NEO will arrive in ZRH and if she needs retrofitting like -JDA?


Did Switzerland open its borders for non Swiss residents?


No, not fully yet. They are allowing some unmarried couples etc to reunite for now. Effective June 15 the borders with France, Germany and Austria will be fully open, and they are aiming to open all other Schengen borders by July 6. Apparently they will decide in early July about non-EU citizens/residents


This has changed to being fully open to all EU countries + UK on June 15th.
 
DALCE
Posts: 1970
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:45 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:51 pm

The first A320CEO will be put to action as per tomorrow, which seems to be HB-IJS.
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,223,E75,E90,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,
753,763,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
LSZH34
Posts: 650
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:33 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:24 pm

DALCE wrote:
The first A320CEO will be put to action as per tomorrow, which seems to be HB-IJS.


Which is what I expected. The 320‘s will return to service rather sooner than later
 
factsonly
Posts: 2959
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:08 am

Interesting Saturday only service to Sylt:

- 6 Jun 2020 ZRH 06.45 - GWT 08.30 LX2570 BCS3 HB-JCB
- 6 Jun 2020 GWT09.20 - HAM 10.00 LX2570 BCS3 HB-JCB
- 6 Jun 2020 HAM 10.50 - ZRH 12.10 LX2570 BCS3 HB-JCB

Is this a standard LX routing ?

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/lx2570
 
Blerg
Posts: 4064
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:21 am

Anyone know what became of the investigation into the collapse of Etihad Regional?
 
DALCE
Posts: 1970
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:45 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:55 am

factsonly wrote:
Interesting Saturday only service to Sylt:

- 6 Jun 2020 ZRH 06.45 - GWT 08.30 LX2570 BCS3 HB-JCB
- 6 Jun 2020 GWT09.20 - HAM 10.00 LX2570 BCS3 HB-JCB
- 6 Jun 2020 HAM 10.50 - ZRH 12.10 LX2570 BCS3 HB-JCB

Is this a standard LX routing ?

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/lx2570


Yes, it was operated last year too.
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,223,E75,E90,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,
753,763,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
LXA340
Posts: 1172
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:07 pm

LSZH34 wrote:
DALCE wrote:
The first A320CEO will be put to action as per tomorrow, which seems to be HB-IJS.


Which is what I expected. The 320‘s will return to service rather sooner than later


The reason somethimes the A32S or even A330 / A340 are used in the european network at this stage is more due to crew training reasons, in order for cockpit crews not to loose their type rating / license.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
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Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:44 pm

Singapore Airlines sent the A359 to ZRH for the first time a few days ago

Image

https://twitter.com/zrh_airport/status/ ... 45632?s=20
Forum Moderator
 
Blerg
Posts: 4064
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:02 pm

Chair will be terminating three destinations from Zurich: Pristina, Ohrid and Skopje.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-12jun20/
 
PhilInBRN
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:30 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:54 pm

Blerg wrote:
Chair will be terminating three destinations from Zurich: Pristina, Ohrid and Skopje.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-12jun20/


Seems very odd that they would terminate these three very VFR-heavy routes from ZRH. In fact, Chair is still part-owned by the Ibrahimi family (Enter Air owns the other 49%). They also own Air Prishtina and are heavily invested in the Swiss-Balkan corridor travel market. So I doubt that Chair will exit this important O&D market. In my opinion this is just a termination of scheduled flights and in the future, all tickets are sold exclusively through the Air Prishtina travely agency channels.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4064
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:31 pm

PhilInBRN wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Chair will be terminating three destinations from Zurich: Pristina, Ohrid and Skopje.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-12jun20/


Seems very odd that they would terminate these three very VFR-heavy routes from ZRH. In fact, Chair is still part-owned by the Ibrahimi family (Enter Air owns the other 49%). They also own Air Prishtina and are heavily invested in the Swiss-Balkan corridor travel market. So I doubt that Chair will exit this important O&D market. In my opinion this is just a termination of scheduled flights and in the future, all tickets are sold exclusively through the Air Prishtina travely agency channels.


It was reported that some Latvian airline will be opening a base in PRN so I guess they are going to be taking over most of these diaspora flights. Who knows what will happen in the end. Also don't forget that with the crisis, many people from the Balkans lost their jobs and had to return home. There might be overcapacity right now on this market.

That said, seems like ZRH-BEG is going strong with both JU and LX further boosting their networks. JU had two flights yesterday while next Saturday LX is introducing their second daily and a week after they are boosting it to 9 weekly. Nice to see the network being built up thought it's a far cry from the planned 21 weekly flights.
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 857
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:12 pm

SmartLynx is (I think) the Latvian airline you were thinking of...
 
Blerg
Posts: 4064
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:38 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
SmartLynx is (I think) the Latvian airline you were thinking of...


Yes, that is the one, thank you.
 
LX2990
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:19 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:50 am

Blerg wrote:
It was reported that some Latvian airline will be opening a base in PRN

SmartLynx Airlines will start, beginning July 1., with flights PRN-BSL up to 12x weekly.
This route is (was?) also flown by Chair.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4064
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:53 pm

Air Serbia adds more flights on BEG-ZRH. Next week they will operate 10 weekly flight, the week after 13 and the week after that 14. Let's see if they increase it to the planned 17 weekly after that.
 
DALCE
Posts: 1970
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:45 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:31 am

today expected in ZRH : HB-JDB / A320NEO delivery ex XFW filed as LX5241 with an ETA 1525lt.
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,223,E75,E90,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,
753,763,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
Someone83
Posts: 4860
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:41 am

Helvetic is converting 4 E190-E2 orders into E195-E2

https://www.google.no/amp/s/www.aeronew ... e-covid-19
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 857
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:58 am

In June, the Swiss Parliament voted to add a CO2 tax to flights, between CHF 30 and CHF 120 - presumably based on distance flown and possibly also whether one flies business or economy.

Does anyone have details as to how this tax would work in practice ? What happens about Basel which is on French territory and not that far from Zurich ?

Ideally something in English...
 
RvA
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:03 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
In June, the Swiss Parliament voted to add a CO2 tax to flights, between CHF 30 and CHF 120 - presumably based on distance flown and possibly also whether one flies business or economy.

Does anyone have details as to how this tax would work in practice ? What happens about Basel which is on French territory and not that far from Zurich ?

Ideally something in English...


Interesting question I’d be interested to learn more also. I wonder with Basel like you say being on French soil if they can apply it. I suppose on tickets SOLD in Switzerland they probably could? However then I feel MUC/STR/MXP/LYS should also be considered given they aren’t too far away from CH either. Depending where you are located a drive up to STR or drive down to MXP isn’t too bad at all and if you end up with the CHF120 charge and have a family of 4 it may well be worth the detour.
 
jghealey
Posts: 242
Joined: Fri May 11, 2018 5:46 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:59 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
In June, the Swiss Parliament voted to add a CO2 tax to flights, between CHF 30 and CHF 120 - presumably based on distance flown and possibly also whether one flies business or economy.

Does anyone have details as to how this tax would work in practice ? What happens about Basel which is on French territory and not that far from Zurich ?

Ideally something in English...

I don't think anything has been released to the public, at least certainly not in the Swiss-French news. Can't say the same for German but I doubt it would be any different. It would also be helpful to know when they're planning to actually introduce it. Hopefully someone with inside knowledge can reveal all, but it's also quite possible that the final details haven't fully been worked out.
 
Capricorn
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:11 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:21 pm

Long time passive A-net reader here, so maybe I can help. At BSL the federal authorities deem it possible to enact the CO 2 tax at the Swiss sector, however at the French sector it is currently not possible to impose the Swiss tax and therefore the authorities want to negotiate with France in order to find a solution for the entire EPA. (Source below) IMO I don't think that will be successful and in case the tax of between 30-120 CHF are imposed on the Swiss sector many airlines (especially U2) will simply switch to the French sector with taxe of between 1.5-18€, which are substantially cheaper. Therefore there is quite a fear among a few municipalities here in Northwestern Switzerland that noise pollution from airplanes will rise as a result of this tax.

The federal government therefore feared at first that Switzerland could not introduce a tax there because the airport is under French law. In the meantime, however, they consider this possible. According to the Federal Office of Justice (FOJ), there are no problems in the Swiss sector since it is subject to the Swiss tax regime, Sommaruga said. The Federal Council would seek talks with the foreign authorities for the French sector/i]

Source, not behind a paywall, in German
https://www.bernerzeitung.ch/flugticket ... 3659931882

How and when the Air-ticket tax will be enacted is not yet clear, since its part of a larger legislativ package (CO-2 Law) which did not pass in its entirety the bicameral legislativ system of Switzerland yet (some parts unrelated to the Air-Ticket tax are still subject to debate). Furthermore the SVP (Swiss People's Party) already stated, that they will seek a constitutional confirmatory referendum over the matter and therefore there is a very high chance that at some point in the future the Swiss electorate has to decide over the CO-2 law. (Source below) However the Air-Ticket tax is relatively uncontroversial and therefore probably will come in one form or another, even if the larger CO-2 law is voted down.


[i]The party has been flirting with a referendum for a long time. Christian Imark said yesterday that after the recent decisions it was clear to him that there would be a referendum - and the SVP supports it.


SVP supports constitutional confirmatory referendum, not behind a paywall, in German
https://www.aargauerzeitung.ch/schweiz/ ... -138127463

But what is clear, is that transfer passengers are not subject to the tax. Therefore IMO airlines like LX, who run a hub and spoke model are less affected and LCC like U2 with their point-to-point network. (Source below)

Transit and transfer passengers, toddlers under the age of two and flights for medical reasons - or aircraft that do not cause greenhouse gases - are exempt from the new Swiss ticket tax.

Swiss Air-ticket tex description, not behind a paywall, in German
https://www.aerotelegraph.com/klimaschu ... abgabe-ein

So once the entire new CO-2 law has passed Swiss parliament hopefully some more details will become available regarding when and how it is enacted.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4064
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:04 pm

But couldn't such a tax put long-haul flights out of Switzerland at a disadvantage? Especially when competing out of nearby hubs with no similar tax?
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 857
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:10 pm

Many countries impose an aviation tax... people who connect via the country in question are exempt from the tax, but people whose journeys begin in the country are liable. Thus a person flying Paris-Zurich-Tokyo might be exempt from the tax but a person flying Geneva-Zurich-Tokyo or Geneva-Paris-Tokyo must pay the long haul tax charge

The conclusion is then that since Basel is on French territory, anybody who lives near Zurich and wants to fly to Mexico City might take a train to Basel and fly Basel-Madrid-Mexico instead of Zurich-Madrid-Mexico so as to *maybe* save paying the tax
 
FluidFlow
Posts: 700
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:33 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Many countries impose an aviation tax... people who connect via the country in question are exempt from the tax, but people whose journeys begin in the country are liable. Thus a person flying Paris-Zurich-Tokyo might be exempt from the tax but a person flying Geneva-Zurich-Tokyo or Geneva-Paris-Tokyo must pay the long haul tax charge

The conclusion is then that since Basel is on French territory, anybody who lives near Zurich and wants to fly to Mexico City might take a train to Basel and fly Basel-Madrid-Mexico instead of Zurich-Madrid-Mexico so as to *maybe* save paying the tax


If you do not have a GA (yearly ticket for trains and buses) your return to Basel is 50.- from Zürich if you have a half fare card. Otherwise it is 100.-. So you do not safe that much. Parking is an option but for a two week trip it will cost you pay a minimum of 156.-. (https://www.euroairport.com/en/passengers-visitors/access-parking/parking/switzerland/tariffs-and-tariff-calculator.html)

There are ways to get around that tax but most people will not realize they pay it and some do but are to lazy and do not care to take alternative routes. At the end I estimate this will only turn away less than 5% of the travellers, if even.

ZRH is a special case and people are willing to pay more to fly from ZRH already as you can see at the low presence of budget carriers, another bump in fares will not really matter.
 
DUSZRH
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:52 pm

As LX stated, their biggest fear is that it will hurt incoming tourism. Because people generally have a choice where they travel to and price has a certain influence.
 
Capricorn
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:11 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:10 pm

FluidFlow wrote:
If you do not have a GA (yearly ticket for trains and buses) your return to Basel is 50.- from Zürich if you have a half fare card. Otherwise it is 100.-. So you do not safe that much. Parking is an option but for a two week trip it will cost you pay a minimum of 156.-. (https://www.euroairport.com/en/passenge ... lator.html)


True, considering transportation costs travellers who live in Zürich have not much of an advantage choosing EPA over ZRH. However BSL is doing well with travellers from Bern and Luzern who would have to go to ZRH first by train too. (Parking at BSL is anyway cheaper than at ZRH under normal circumstances) Therefore, for travellers originating from the before mentioned locations, BSL (or rather MLH, the French sector) could soon price wise have an advantage over ZRH. Especially given that by the end of this decade (2028) BSL should also have a direct train station at the air port (1st source below. Then, from the perspective of somebody residing in or near Bern the EPA could would be of about equal convenience to ZRH. Subsequently the local Green Party politician NIMBYs try to prevent the train station at the airport from being built. (2nd source below)

But yes if the plans to add by international standards high air ticket tax to O&D tickets from Switzerland will likely bear the result that some (lower yielding) traffic will shift to airports in neighboring countries, including the French sector at EPA.

(1) Newspaper article describing plans to build a train station at EPA, not behind a paywall, in German
https://www.bzbasel.ch/basel/basel-stad ... -134741288

(2) Newspaper article describing Green Party resistance to plans building a train station at EPA, not behind a paywall, in German
https://www.bzbasel.ch/basel/basel-stad ... -133587100

Edit: Correcting Typo's
 
DUSZRH
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:40 pm

Other cheap alternative is flixbus from ZRH to MLH. (Pre Corona there were quite a few frequencies). At 90min it’s competitive.
 
DUSZRH
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:46 pm

FluidFlow wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
Many countries impose an aviation tax... people who connect via the country in question are exempt from the tax, but people whose journeys begin in the country are liable. Thus a person flying Paris-Zurich-Tokyo might be exempt from the tax but a person flying Geneva-Zurich-Tokyo or Geneva-Paris-Tokyo must pay the long haul tax charge

The conclusion is then that since Basel is on French territory, anybody who lives near Zurich and wants to fly to Mexico City might take a train to Basel and fly Basel-Madrid-Mexico instead of Zurich-Madrid-Mexico so as to *maybe* save paying the tax


If you do not have a GA (yearly ticket for trains and buses) your return to Basel is 50.- from Zürich if you have a half fare card. Otherwise it is 100.-. So you do not safe that much. Parking is an option but for a two week trip it will cost you pay a minimum of 156.-. (https://www.euroairport.com/en/passengers-visitors/access-parking/parking/switzerland/tariffs-and-tariff-calculator.html)


I get 20 Francs flex or 9.20 as super saver (fixed connection) with half fare card. Otherwise Prices are double.
 
FluidFlow
Posts: 700
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:40 pm

DUSZRH wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
Many countries impose an aviation tax... people who connect via the country in question are exempt from the tax, but people whose journeys begin in the country are liable. Thus a person flying Paris-Zurich-Tokyo might be exempt from the tax but a person flying Geneva-Zurich-Tokyo or Geneva-Paris-Tokyo must pay the long haul tax charge

The conclusion is then that since Basel is on French territory, anybody who lives near Zurich and wants to fly to Mexico City might take a train to Basel and fly Basel-Madrid-Mexico instead of Zurich-Madrid-Mexico so as to *maybe* save paying the tax


If you do not have a GA (yearly ticket for trains and buses) your return to Basel is 50.- from Zürich if you have a half fare card. Otherwise it is 100.-. So you do not safe that much. Parking is an option but for a two week trip it will cost you pay a minimum of 156.-. (https://www.euroairport.com/en/passengers-visitors/access-parking/parking/switzerland/tariffs-and-tariff-calculator.html)


I get 20 Francs flex or 9.20 as super saver (fixed connection) with half fare card. Otherwise Prices are double.


Are this pre booked tickets?
 
Bhoy
Posts: 548
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:50 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:49 pm

FluidFlow wrote:
If you do not have a GA (yearly ticket for trains and buses) your return to Basel is 50.- from Zürich if you have a half fare card. Otherwise it is 100.-. So you do not safe that much. Parking is an option but for a two week trip it will cost you pay a minimum of 156.-. (https://www.euroairport.com/en/passengers-visitors/access-parking/parking/switzerland/tariffs-and-tariff-calculator.html).

Stay on the Motorway one more junction past the Border, and park on the French side of the Airport for €105... you just walk across the open Schengen border within the Terminal anyway.
https://www.euroairport.com/en/passenge ... ice-result
 
RainerBoeing777
Posts: 509
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:43 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:54 am

Swiss will still have plans to launch Washington and Osaka by 2021?
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG
 
FluidFlow
Posts: 700
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 am

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:42 am

Bhoy wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
If you do not have a GA (yearly ticket for trains and buses) your return to Basel is 50.- from Zürich if you have a half fare card. Otherwise it is 100.-. So you do not safe that much. Parking is an option but for a two week trip it will cost you pay a minimum of 156.-. (https://www.euroairport.com/en/passengers-visitors/access-parking/parking/switzerland/tariffs-and-tariff-calculator.html).

Stay on the Motorway one more junction past the Border, and park on the French side of the Airport for €105... you just walk across the open Schengen border within the Terminal anyway.
https://www.euroairport.com/en/passenge ... ice-result


This is only good if you do not buy duty free items. But it is definitely an option.

We will see if the additional hassle will drive many people away from the tax in GVA and ZRH. For flights within Europe you have all big destinations from BSL but for certain long haul routes you have bad connections or none within one day. I don't think this tax will have a big influence on travellers originating in Switzerland.

Inbound tourists on package deals might use MXP or other airports though and make a longer travel with a bus. All the tourist groups will just rearrange the plans and fly from elsewhere.
 
Bhoy
Posts: 548
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:50 pm

Re: Swiss Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:57 am

FluidFlow wrote:
This is only good if you do not buy duty free items. But it is definitely an option.

I don’t think it makes any difference to duty free; your boarding pass will still say where the flight officially goes to/from (ie either BSL or MLH) to differentiate between Switzerland/France. There are no Airlines that have check-in on both sides of the border who’d differentiate, and if your concern is importing stuff to France as a Swiss resident, use the exit from baggage reclaim on the Swiss side through Swiss Customs, and walk across the open border upstairs in departures.

I suppose one thing if flights (on paper) moved from the Swiss side to the french to avoid this Swiss CO2 tax, your Boarding Pass would say destination MLH and you couldn’t get duty free on your inbound flight from anywhere in the EU.

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