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User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5119
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 11:15 pm

AAflyguy wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
sprxUSA wrote:
Here are the route cuts I found. Seems they don't like to talk about these. They are Mo through Fr flights, and were operating in this schedule's timeframe last year.
ATL-LAX/OAK/SAN
BOI-GEG
BOS-CMH/HOU
BUF-LAS
CHS-HOU
CLE-MKE
DEN-LBB
FLL-LAS/RDU
MDW-IND
PDX-BUR/ONT/LAX/SAN
RDU-LAS
SAN-ELP/MCO/OMA
SFO-ONT
SJC-BWI/SLC/TUS/ABQ
SLC-BWI
TPA-ALB/BDL/MHT


I had to see it on their website to believe it. A few that stand out in particular:

ATL-LAX/OAK: OAK a little less shocking than LAX, but they cannot make ATL-LAX work? Also pretty much eliminates Hawaii connectivity from ATL

BUF-LAS: this one is really hard to believe. With all the Canadian vacation traffic, they can’t make it work? Are they betting it won’t return this winter due to COVID? Seems odd given their other additions and ambitions...

PDX: Talk about ceding to AS on the West Coast flights. Obviously WN is much stronger in CA than PDX or SEA but still


WN cut ALL ATL-CA routes: LAX/OAK/SAN. It may have to do with the fact that they eat up a lot of aircraft time. This isn't about OAK, or about LAX, or about SAN. They've simply decided to end transcons to CA from ATL and instead build ATL in other ways, which is evident in the route adds there announced today. Those who want to fly ATL-LAX/OAK/SAN on WN will still have plenty of opportunity on a 1-stop or single-connect basis. And, right, OAK will continue to have the most Hawaii capacity for WN so with no flights to/from ATL that will certainly limit the ability of customers to make that work. Not the end of the world.

AAflyguy


WN is really shrinking LAX, I saw that they are only running about 20 routes in this new extension, haven't seen the daily flight count but it must be low. Maybe its a similar story with SAN & OAK
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1894
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 11:32 pm

This schedule is said to have been planned with 100 less older 700NG aircraft that will remain in storage.
If the MAX8 gets returned to service WN will most likely Swap out one for one with the planned 700NG retirements.
Also if market opportunities arise from an unfortunate fall out from another airline WN will have ample aircraft move on it with.
WN Is not eliminating any markets it's just rebalance it thru more connections vs Longe haul non stops.
I did notice SAN-HNL stops for the winter?

WN is still waiting on Steamboat Springs service until the ski resort group comes out with it's post Covid 19 operating plan.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
sprxUSA
Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:17 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 1:13 am

I would like to see them add some of the "non WN" style places like BIL FAR FAT TYS etc while somewhat slow and able to grab any of the folks flying from there that usually use the carriers that are shrinking those places' options. Have the people and planes available but would take time to mature. But flying additional cash losing flights probably not top of the list LOL.
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
User avatar
LotsaRunway
Posts: 365
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 1:17 am

wnflyguy wrote:
This schedule is said to have been planned with 100 less older 700NG aircraft that will remain in storage.
If the MAX8 gets returned to service WN will most likely Swap out one for one with the planned 700NG retirements.
Also if market opportunities arise from an unfortunate fall out from another airline WN will have ample aircraft move on it with.
WN Is not eliminating any markets it's just rebalance it thru more connections vs Longe haul non stops.
I did notice SAN-HNL stops for the winter?

WN is still waiting on Steamboat Springs service until the ski resort group comes out with it's post Covid 19 operating plan.

Flyguy

There are already Max8’s in the schedule so I don’t know about the swap out part. Are you saying they would be replaced by parked -700s if the Max’s don’t fly? The rest makes sense.
 
Kden95
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:55 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 2:26 am

Was Denver to Charlotte already announced? Shows up as nonstop flight in December?
 
AAflyguy
Posts: 316
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:59 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 2:52 am

WN is really shrinking LAX, I saw that they are only running about 20 routes in this new extension, haven't seen the daily flight count but it must be low. Maybe its a similar story with SAN & OAK[/quote]


WN is operating almost 40 daily departures on 20 routes out of OAK now and is supposed to increase to about 65 departures and 25 routes in June. That's a little over 50% of the June 2019 schedule. Should be 3 more routes added in July if Hawaii's visitor quarantine is lifted at the end of June. With the Nov schedule looks like OAK is back over 100 daily departures.

AAflyguy
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5119
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 4:40 am

AAflyguy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
WN is really shrinking LAX, I saw that they are only running about 20 routes in this new extension, haven't seen the daily flight count but it must be low. Maybe its a similar story with SAN & OAK



WN is operating almost 40 daily departures on 20 routes out of OAK now and is supposed to increase to about 65 departures and 25 routes in June. That's a little over 50% of the June 2019 schedule. Should be 3 more routes added in July if Hawaii's visitor quarantine is lifted at the end of June. With the Nov schedule looks like OAK is back over 100 daily departures.

AAflyguy


Ran through LAX & SAN, both under 100 departures (97 & 95 respectively) for Nov 13th

You would think they would try to expand in LAX right now
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
phllax
Posts: 587
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:53 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 4:58 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Ran through LAX & SAN, both under 100 departures (97 & 95 respectively) for Nov 13th

You would think they would try to expand in LAX right now


They may be freaked by our Covid-19 numbers growth, but there's a few things you need to know about it.
1. Anyone residing in the County of Los Angeles can get tested for free, no questions asked, as often as they like, whether or not you have symptoms. There are over a dozen drive-thru testing sites the County is operating and you just go online and sign up. You can sign up for the next day in many cases.
2. Because the County is running the testing, they automatically know the positive cases each day, although it is 36 hours behind.
3. If someone tests positive twice, they count that as 2 cases, not 1, so our numbers may be skewed by that.
 
WN732
Posts: 757
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 6:52 am

Midwestindy wrote:
AAflyguy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
WN is really shrinking LAX, I saw that they are only running about 20 routes in this new extension, haven't seen the daily flight count but it must be low. Maybe its a similar story with SAN & OAK



WN is operating almost 40 daily departures on 20 routes out of OAK now and is supposed to increase to about 65 departures and 25 routes in June. That's a little over 50% of the June 2019 schedule. Should be 3 more routes added in July if Hawaii's visitor quarantine is lifted at the end of June. With the Nov schedule looks like OAK is back over 100 daily departures.

AAflyguy


Ran through LAX & SAN, both under 100 departures (97 & 95 respectively) for Nov 13th

You would think they would try to expand in LAX right now


Aren't those numbers roughly what they flew during the last economic downturn about 10 years ago? WN was also much smaller back then. They didn't even have ATL during the peak of the recession.

At this point they are probably just playing it safe. They can always adjust the schedule as needed for the next schedule extension. At least now they have the ability to expand, which is a luxury they didn't have last year.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3520
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 12:06 pm

joeblow10 wrote:

I had to see it on their website to believe it. A few that stand out in particular:

ATL-LAX/OAK: OAK a little less shocking than LAX, but they cannot make ATL-LAX work? Also pretty much eliminates Hawaii connectivity from ATL


AAflyguy wrote:
WN cut ALL ATL-CA routes: LAX/OAK/SAN. It may have to do with the fact that they eat up a lot of aircraft time. This isn't about OAK, or about LAX, or about SAN. They've simply decided to end transcons to CA from ATL and instead build ATL in other ways, which is evident in the route adds there announced today. Those who want to fly ATL-LAX/OAK/SAN on WN will still have plenty of opportunity on a 1-stop or single-connect basis. And, right, OAK will continue to have the most Hawaii capacity for WN so with no flights to/from ATL that will certainly limit the ability of customers to make that work. Not the end of the world.

AAflyguy


It makes sense for WN to add RIC-MDW or RIC-DEN nonstop service once demand for air travel returns if WN is dropping ATL-LAX/OAK/SAN nonstop service with RIC losing 1-stop connecting service to the West Coast on WN once WN discontinues ATL-LAX/OAK/SAN.

There was an average over 450 passengers in each direction connecting to and from contiguous U.S. West Coast cities served by WN from the RIC market in Q3 2019.

The lack of 1-stop connecting service to the West Coast from RIC will be a huge hole (at least if demand is at normal levels), especially with almost all of the other WN stations in the U.S. still having nonstop or 1-stop connecting service to LAX, OAK, and SAN on WN and with the significant amount of passengers who were connecting between RIC and the West Coast.

The discontinuation of ATL-LAX/OAK/SAN nonstop service will also likely weaken demand for WN service out of RIC with RIC losing 1-stop connecting service to the West Coast on WN.

In addition to restoring connectivity to cities that have lost nonstop service to ATL on WN, RIC would also gain 1-stop connecting service on WN to some additional cities that WN or FL never served nonstop from ATL if WN adds RIC-MDW and RIC-DEN nonstop service.

Besides increased connectivity to and from the RIC market on WN, WN would also likely have some O&D traffic on RIC-MDW and RIC-DEN nonstop flights if WN adds RIC-MDW and RIC-DEN nonstop service.

Unlike the RIC market, the situation is very different in ATL, LGA, PHL, DCA, and RDU as ATL, LGA, PHL, DCA, and RDU will all still have 1-stop connecting service to the West Coast on WN after WN discontinues ATL-LAX/OAK/SAN nonstop service.

WN also has nonstop service to BWI from most of its other stations on the East Coast, but RIC is probably too close to BWI for WN to add RIC-BWI nonstop service with RIC-BWI being only 121 miles long, which is shorter than any WN nonstop route within the contiguous U.S. as MDW-GRR (the shortest WN nonstop route within the contiguous U.S.) is 137 miles long. HNL-OGG, HNL-LIH, and OGG-KOA are also the only WN nonstop routes that are shorter than RIC-BWI, but HNL-OGG, HNL-LIH, and OGG-KOA are all interisland Hawaii routes.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1894
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 1:03 pm

WN December 2020 M-F schedule.
Daily flights
ABQ 32
ALB 10
AMA 6
ATL 129
AUA 1
AUS 82
BDL 12
BHM 12
BNA 135
BOI 15
BOS 22
BUF 14
BUR 58
BWI 212
BZE no service
CHS 10
CLE 19
CLT 11
CMH 36
CRP 4
CUN 10
CVG 9
CZM no service
DAL 195
DCA 45
DEN 263
DSM 5
DTW 19
ECP 4
ELP 20
FLL 58
GCM no service
GRR 4
GSP 4
HAV 1
HNL 23
HOU 163
HRL 5
IAD 6
ICT 5
IND 27
ISP 7
ITO 4
JAX 13
KOA 7
LAS 190
LAX 107
LBB 8
LGA 37
LGB 17
LIH 6
LIR 1
LIT 8
MAF 10
MBJ 4
MCI 66
MCO 111
MDW 231
MEM 14
MHT 7
MKE 29
MSP 24
MSY 66
NAS 1
OAK 107
OGG 12
OKC 22
OMA 21
ONT 36
ORF 7
PBI 8
PDX 28
PHL 22
PHX 213
PIT 27
PLS no service
PNS 3
PUJ 1
PVD 13
PVR 3
PWM 3
RDU 32
RIC 3
RNO 23
ROC 5
RSW 20
SAN 97
SAT 53
SDF 16
SEA 28
SFO 35
SJC 99
SJD 5
SJO no service
SJU 11
SLC 31
SMF 85
SNA 44
STL 125
TPA 86
TUL 14
TUS 12

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
pmanni1
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:17 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 1:46 pm

New top 10 as compared to Dec 2019 in order of flights https://www.swamedia.com/pages/corporat ... heet#top10
1 DEN
2 MDW
3 PHX
4 BWI
5 DAL
6 LAS
7 HOU
8 BNA
9 ATL
10 STL

OAK, MCO & SAN fell out of the top 10 while BNA, ATL & STL moved in.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5119
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 1:52 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
WN December 2020 M-F schedule.
Daily flights
ABQ 32
ALB 10
AMA 6
ATL 129
AUA 1
AUS 82
BDL 12
BHM 12
BNA 135
BOI 15
BOS 22
BUF 14
BUR 58
BWI 212
BZE no service
CHS 10
CLE 19
CLT 11
CMH 36
CRP 4
CUN 10
CVG 9
CZM no service
DAL 195
DCA 45
DEN 263
DSM 5
DTW 19
ECP 4
ELP 20
FLL 58
GCM no service
GRR 4
GSP 4
HAV 1
HNL 23
HOU 163
HRL 5
IAD 6
ICT 5
IND 27
ISP 7
ITO 4
JAX 13
KOA 7
LAS 190
LAX 107
LBB 8
LGA 37
LGB 17
LIH 6
LIR 1
LIT 8
MAF 10
MBJ 4
MCI 66
MCO 111
MDW 231
MEM 14
MHT 7
MKE 29
MSP 24
MSY 66
NAS 1
OAK 107
OGG 12
OKC 22
OMA 21
ONT 36
ORF 7
PBI 8
PDX 28
PHL 22
PHX 213
PIT 27
PLS no service
PNS 3
PUJ 1
PVD 13
PVR 3
PWM 3
RDU 32
RIC 3
RNO 23
ROC 5
RSW 20
SAN 97
SAT 53
SDF 16
SEA 28
SFO 35
SJC 99
SJD 5
SJO no service
SJU 11
SLC 31
SMF 85
SNA 44
STL 125
TPA 86
TUL 14
TUS 12

Flyguy


Which week are you using?
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
tomaheath
Posts: 624
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 3:41 pm

Is there still a minimum number of flights a station needs to have in order to be staffed by full time WN employees?
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1486
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 4:39 pm

sprxUSA wrote:
I would like to see them add some of the "non WN" style places like BIL FAR FAT TYS etc while somewhat slow and able to grab any of the folks flying from there that usually use the carriers that are shrinking those places' options. Have the people and planes available but would take time to mature. But flying additional cash losing flights probably not top of the list LOL.



You are forgetting XNA on that list. Bentonville is the 5th fastest growing town in the US. Projections now have NWA over 1 million come 2045. If there was a chance to enter a market with the reduced fares they are offering, this is the place. DAL. HOU, DEN, STL or MWD and BNA or ATL and they would be a big hit instantaneously.
 
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SteveXC500
Posts: 575
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:38 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 5:07 pm

sprxUSA wrote:
Here are the route cuts I found. Seems they don't like to talk about these. They are Mo through Fr flights, and were operating in this schedule's timeframe last year.
ATL-LAX/OAK/SAN
BOI-GEG
BOS-CMH/HOU
BUF-LAS
CHS-HOU
CLE-MKE
DEN-LBB
FLL-LAS/RDU
MDW-IND
PDX-BUR/ONT/LAX/SAN
RDU-LAS
SAN-ELP/MCO/OMA
SFO-ONT
SJC-BWI/SLC/TUS/ABQ
SLC-BWI
TPA-ALB/BDL/MHT


MSP-OAK cut too, from what I could tell, in addition to frequency cuts
 
sprxUSA
Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:17 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 5:18 pm

SteveXC500 wrote:
sprxUSA wrote:
Here are the route cuts I found. Seems they don't like to talk about these. They are Mo through Fr flights, and were operating in this schedule's timeframe last year.
ATL-LAX/OAK/SAN
BOI-GEG
BOS-CMH/HOU
BUF-LAS
CHS-HOU
CLE-MKE
DEN-LBB
FLL-LAS/RDU
MDW-IND
PDX-BUR/ONT/LAX/SAN
RDU-LAS
SAN-ELP/MCO/OMA
SFO-ONT
SJC-BWI/SLC/TUS/ABQ
SLC-BWI
TPA-ALB/BDL/MHT


MSP-OAK cut too, from what I could tell, in addition to frequency cuts


I left that off since it wasn't operated last Nov and Dec. Seemed to be an on 2 months, off two months route anyway.
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
dbo861
Posts: 1035
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 2:20 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 6:43 pm

LotsaRunway wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
This schedule is said to have been planned with 100 less older 700NG aircraft that will remain in storage.
If the MAX8 gets returned to service WN will most likely Swap out one for one with the planned 700NG retirements.
Also if market opportunities arise from an unfortunate fall out from another airline WN will have ample aircraft move on it with.
WN Is not eliminating any markets it's just rebalance it thru more connections vs Longe haul non stops.
I did notice SAN-HNL stops for the winter?

WN is still waiting on Steamboat Springs service until the ski resort group comes out with it's post Covid 19 operating plan.

Flyguy

There are already Max8’s in the schedule so I don’t know about the swap out part. Are you saying they would be replaced by parked -700s if the Max’s don’t fly? The rest makes sense.


I'm also confused by this. Are you saying they're able to run this schedule while keeping 100 73Gs in storage?
 
737max8
Posts: 597
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 6:43 pm

LotsaRunway wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
This schedule is said to have been planned with 100 less older 700NG aircraft that will remain in storage.
If the MAX8 gets returned to service WN will most likely Swap out one for one with the planned 700NG retirements.
Also if market opportunities arise from an unfortunate fall out from another airline WN will have ample aircraft move on it with.
WN Is not eliminating any markets it's just rebalance it thru more connections vs Longe haul non stops.
I did notice SAN-HNL stops for the winter?

WN is still waiting on Steamboat Springs service until the ski resort group comes out with it's post Covid 19 operating plan.

Flyguy

There are already Max8’s in the schedule so I don’t know about the swap out part. Are you saying they would be replaced by parked -700s if the Max’s don’t fly? The rest makes sense.


He is just guessing or hearing rumors about the fleet. Nothing that is close to fact.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
Flown on: 717 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 7M8 744 744ER 752 753 762 763 772 773ER 788 789 A220 A319/20/21 A332 A333 A339 A343 A346 A359 A388
 
User avatar
SteveXC500
Posts: 575
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:38 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 7:46 pm

sprxUSA wrote:
SteveXC500 wrote:
sprxUSA wrote:
Here are the route cuts I found. Seems they don't like to talk about these. They are Mo through Fr flights, and were operating in this schedule's timeframe last year.
ATL-LAX/OAK/SAN
BOI-GEG
BOS-CMH/HOU
BUF-LAS
CHS-HOU
CLE-MKE
DEN-LBB
FLL-LAS/RDU
MDW-IND
PDX-BUR/ONT/LAX/SAN
RDU-LAS
SAN-ELP/MCO/OMA
SFO-ONT
SJC-BWI/SLC/TUS/ABQ
SLC-BWI
TPA-ALB/BDL/MHT


MSP-OAK cut too, from what I could tell, in addition to frequency cuts


I left that off since it wasn't operated last Nov and Dec. Seemed to be an on 2 months, off two months route anyway.


True. I think last years cut was MAX related. Will be interesting to see if it returns as it was back earlier this year and just cut for COVID cuts.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3446
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 9:59 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
WN December 2020 M-F schedule.
Daily flights
ABQ 32
ALB 10
AMA 6
ATL 129
AUA 1
AUS 82
BDL 12
BHM 12
BNA 135
BOI 15
BOS 22
BUF 14
BUR 58
BWI 212
BZE no service
CHS 10
CLE 19
CLT 11
CMH 36
CRP 4
CUN 10
CVG 9
CZM no service
DAL 195
DCA 45
DEN 263
DSM 5
DTW 19
ECP 4
ELP 20
FLL 58
GCM no service
GRR 4
GSP 4
HAV 1
HNL 23
HOU 163
HRL 5
IAD 6
ICT 5
IND 27
ISP 7
ITO 4
JAX 13
KOA 7
LAS 190
LAX 107
LBB 8
LGA 37
LGB 17
LIH 6
LIR 1
LIT 8
MAF 10
MBJ 4
MCI 66
MCO 111
MDW 231
MEM 14
MHT 7
MKE 29
MSP 24
MSY 66
NAS 1
OAK 107
OGG 12
OKC 22
OMA 21
ONT 36
ORF 7
PBI 8
PDX 28
PHL 22
PHX 213
PIT 27
PLS no service
PNS 3
PUJ 1
PVD 13
PVR 3
PWM 3
RDU 32
RIC 3
RNO 23
ROC 5
RSW 20
SAN 97
SAT 53
SDF 16
SEA 28
SFO 35
SJC 99
SJD 5
SJO no service
SJU 11
SLC 31
SMF 85
SNA 44
STL 125
TPA 86
TUL 14
TUS 12

Flyguy


Which week are you using?


Has to be a holiday week or week up to one because the ones I counted had less for non holiday
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1894
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 10:31 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
WN December 2020 M-F schedule.
Daily flights
ABQ 32
ALB 10
AMA 6
ATL 129
AUA 1
AUS 82
BDL 12
BHM 12
BNA 135
BOI 15
BOS 22
BUF 14
BUR 58
BWI 212
BZE no service
CHS 10
CLE 19
CLT 11
CMH 36
CRP 4
CUN 10
CVG 9
CZM no service
DAL 195
DCA 45
DEN 263
DSM 5
DTW 19
ECP 4
ELP 20
FLL 58
GCM no service
GRR 4
GSP 4
HAV 1
HNL 23
HOU 163
HRL 5
IAD 6
ICT 5
IND 27
ISP 7
ITO 4
JAX 13
KOA 7
LAS 190
LAX 107
LBB 8
LGA 37
LGB 17
LIH 6
LIR 1
LIT 8
MAF 10
MBJ 4
MCI 66
MCO 111
MDW 231
MEM 14
MHT 7
MKE 29
MSP 24
MSY 66
NAS 1
OAK 107
OGG 12
OKC 22
OMA 21
ONT 36
ORF 7
PBI 8
PDX 28
PHL 22
PHX 213
PIT 27
PLS no service
PNS 3
PUJ 1
PVD 13
PVR 3
PWM 3
RDU 32
RIC 3
RNO 23
ROC 5
RSW 20
SAN 97
SAT 53
SDF 16
SEA 28
SFO 35
SJC 99
SJD 5
SJO no service
SJU 11
SLC 31
SMF 85
SNA 44
STL 125
TPA 86
TUL 14
TUS 12

Flyguy


Which week are you using?


Has to be a holiday week or week up to one because the ones I counted had less for non holiday


December 18th 2020 was used as a reference.
As for my early post about 100 less aircraft.
I was told they have 747 Aircraft and only built the schedule with 640 aircraft.
Still a far cry better than everyone else in this environment.
Hopefully the gamble pays off.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
User avatar
OzarkD9S
Posts: 5636
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 11:05 pm

pmanni1 wrote:

New top 10 as compared to Dec 2019 in order of flights https://www.swamedia.com/pages/corporat ... heet#top10
1 DEN
2 MDW
3 PHX
4 BWI
5 DAL
6 LAS
7 HOU
8 BNA
9 ATL
10 STL

OAK, MCO & SAN fell out of the top 10 while BNA, ATL & STL moved in.


Looks like this mess is turning WN into a more "hub" oriented carrier. Only one station (BWI) is on a coast, and that was already a major connecting point to begin with. And STL Top Ten!
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
OKCDCA
Posts: 243
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:50 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 11:53 pm

Interesting to see WN coming back in on OKC-ATL at 3x daily. DL was 6x daily and all mainline before this craziness so WN must see an opportunity. However their lack of loyalty to the OKC market lately has made a lot of people jump ship. Assuming this is part of the opportunity to capitalize on the competition being down.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 11:57 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
December 18th 2020 was used as a reference.
As for my early post about 100 less aircraft.
I was told they have 747 Aircraft and only built the schedule with 640 aircraft.
Still a far cry better than everyone else in this environment.
Hopefully the gamble pays off.

Flyguy


Do you really think a schedule for a date more than six months away has any relevance at this point?
 
WNagent310
Posts: 60
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sat May 30, 2020 12:24 am

tomaheath wrote:
Is there still a minimum number of flights a station needs to have in order to be staffed by full time WN employees?


For ramp service. In our TWU contract anything over 14 daily departures must be staffed by WN ramp union members. Anything less than 14 can be outsourced to contract employees.

WNagent310
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1894
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sat May 30, 2020 12:44 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
December 18th 2020 was used as a reference.
As for my early post about 100 less aircraft.
I was told they have 747 Aircraft and only built the schedule with 640 aircraft.
Still a far cry better than everyone else in this environment.
Hopefully the gamble pays off.

Flyguy


Do you really think a schedule for a date more than six months away has any relevance at this point?


Future cancellations are down week over week.
New booking keep rising.
90% of the US has been on Lockdown with social distancing. Just watch your local news everyone has cabin fever and are starting to revolt.
Aftermath this pandemic scare like 9/11 everyone always pushed off FVR travel with the maybe next year. Everyone guilt kicks in I'm gonna go now because life doesn't wait. So they take the vacation or trip they always wanted.
Hopefully the whole industry sees a huge spike demand squashing all the industry doom predictions.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sat May 30, 2020 1:00 am

wnflyguy wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Which week are you using?


Has to be a holiday week or week up to one because the ones I counted had less for non holiday


December 18th 2020 was used as a reference.
Flyguy



Okay. That makes sense then. The holiday schedule kicks in the 17th. I had counted the non holiday schedule.
 
sprxUSA
Posts: 397
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sat May 30, 2020 4:09 am

WNagent310 wrote:
tomaheath wrote:
Is there still a minimum number of flights a station needs to have in order to be staffed by full time WN employees?


For ramp service. In our TWU contract anything over 14 daily departures must be staffed by WN ramp union members. Anything less than 14 can be outsourced to contract employees.

Not quite 14.
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sat May 30, 2020 4:19 am

I'm wondering what the reasoning was behind WN cutting MDW-IND. Was it too short a stage to be effective, similar to DAL-OKC cuts from last fall?
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
Jshank83
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sat May 30, 2020 4:35 am

ctrabs0114 wrote:
I'm wondering what the reasoning was behind WN cutting MDW-IND. Was it too short a stage to be effective, similar to DAL-OKC cuts from last fall?


Midwestindy probably knows better but I don’t think the loads were great and I’m sure there probably was a majority connecting. With adding IND-STL they can just reroute them thru STL (or other “hubs”).
 
mga707
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sat May 30, 2020 5:53 am

Jshank83 wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:
I'm wondering what the reasoning was behind WN cutting MDW-IND. Was it too short a stage to be effective, similar to DAL-OKC cuts from last fall?


Midwestindy probably knows better but I don’t think the loads were great and I’m sure there probably was a majority connecting. With adding IND-STL they can just reroute them thru STL (or other “hubs”).


Second time that route has been cut. It was cut some years ago and then restored.
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4671
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sat May 30, 2020 6:13 am

WNagent310 wrote:
tomaheath wrote:
Is there still a minimum number of flights a station needs to have in order to be staffed by full time WN employees?


For ramp service. In our TWU contract anything over 14 daily departures must be staffed by WN ramp union members. Anything less than 14 can be outsourced to contract employees.

WNagent310


It’s 12 flights, and does not apply to stations in operation prior to 2009.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sat May 30, 2020 2:51 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:
I'm wondering what the reasoning was behind WN cutting MDW-IND. Was it too short a stage to be effective, similar to DAL-OKC cuts from last fall?


Midwestindy probably knows better but I don’t think the loads were great and I’m sure there probably was a majority connecting. With adding IND-STL they can just reroute them thru STL (or other “hubs”).


The flight has been on and off for the past year or two

O&D was only about 10 PDEW, and loads were bad, and yields were weak.

WN has been trimming down basically anything from IND that doesn't touch Florida, DEN, PHX, DAL, or BWI: BOS, DCA, OAK, LAX, AUS, MSY, CUN, SAN, EWR+LGA, and MDW have all been cut entirely or trimmed significantly.

Somewhat surprised they are still running IND-MCI
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sat May 30, 2020 3:23 pm

ctrabs0114 wrote:
I'm wondering what the reasoning was behind WN cutting MDW-IND. Was it too short a stage to be effective, similar to DAL-OKC cuts from last fall?


MDW-IND only had an PDEW of 13 passengers per day in Q3 2019, and over 91% of the passengers on WN's MDW-IND flights were connecting to other destinations in Q3 2019.

DAL-OKC only had a PDEW of 32 passengers per day in Q3 2019, and over 89% of the passengers on WN's DAL-OKC flights were connecting to other destinations in Q3 2019.

WN is likely dropping MDW-IND nonstop service for similar reasons as DAL-OKC, including (a) not enough O&D traffic and (b) majority of passengers on WN's DAL-OKC and MDW-IND flights connecting to other cities.

On the other hand, WN has kept ATL-GSP and MDW-GRR nonstop service, even with ATL-GSP and MDW-GRR being shorter than MDW-IND and DAL-OKC and both of these routes having a higher percentage of connecting traffic than MDW-IND or DAL-OKC, due to GSP and GRR being much smaller WN stations that have daily nonstop service to fewer cities on WN than IND or OKC.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sat May 30, 2020 6:06 pm

https://thepointsguy.com/news/southwest ... -schedule/

"Southwest Airlines is cutting more than 100 routes from its ‘full’ schedule this winter"

-Los Angeles (LAX) loses nonstop flights to Atlanta (ATL), Pittsburgh (PIT) and Tampa (TPA); Oakland (OAK) to Atlanta and Orlando (MCO); San Diego (SAN) to Atlanta, Orlando and Tampa; and San Jose, California (SJC) to Baltimore/Washington (BWI) and Orlando.

-The city most affected by Southwest’s route cuts is Fort Lauderdale (FLL). The airline will end all but two international routes — to Cancun (CUN) and Montego Bay (MBJ) — as well as nonstop service to Birmingham (BHM), Boston (BOS), Cleveland (CLE), Jacksonville (JAX), Hartford (BDL), Las Vegas (LAS), Long Island MacArthur (ISP) and Louisville (SDF)

-The carrier will operate nearly 16% more flights, or up to 263 departures a day, from Denver at the end of the year compared to 2019, Cirium shows. Southwest flew up to just 214 departures from the Mile High City last December.

-The numbers do not include routes to Newark Liberty (EWR) where the airline ended service on Nov. 3, 2019
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
FLYKTPA
Posts: 447
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sat May 30, 2020 6:09 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/southwest-airlines-cutting-routes-from-winter-schedule/

"Southwest Airlines is cutting more than 100 routes from its ‘full’ schedule this winter"

-Los Angeles (LAX) loses nonstop flights to Atlanta (ATL), Pittsburgh (PIT) and Tampa (TPA); Oakland (OAK) to Atlanta and Orlando (MCO); San Diego (SAN) to Atlanta, Orlando and Tampa; and San Jose, California (SJC) to Baltimore/Washington (BWI) and Orlando.

-The city most affected by Southwest’s route cuts is Fort Lauderdale (FLL). The airline will end all but two international routes — to Cancun (CUN) and Montego Bay (MBJ) — as well as nonstop service to Birmingham (BHM), Boston (BOS), Cleveland (CLE), Jacksonville (JAX), Hartford (BDL), Las Vegas (LAS), Long Island MacArthur (ISP) and Louisville (SDF)

-The carrier will operate nearly 16% more flights, or up to 263 departures a day, from Denver at the end of the year compared to 2019, Cirium shows. Southwest flew up to just 214 departures from the Mile High City last December.

-The numbers do not include routes to Newark Liberty (EWR) where the airline ended service on Nov. 3, 2019


I wonder if anyone has the entire list of routes?
Huge fan of Tampa International Airport
 
avi8
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sat May 30, 2020 7:17 pm

I take it they are focusing a little bit more on connections. Is 264 flights a day the greatest number of flights from a WN city ever?
avi8
 
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SANFan
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sun May 31, 2020 1:52 am

I tend to agree with those saying why do we even pay any attention to a schedule an airline is releasing in May to be effective for Nov/Dec, in the year of Covid-19 (and the MAXs)? What chance is there that these sked's will be anywhere close to what is actually operated?

However, if anything, the operated schedule might be much less than what saw released Thursday. But what this release does do is give us some idea about how WN is envisioning their near-term future, and what they are thinking about their various stations. This does not mean that dropped routes might not be added back to the network in 2021 but we just have to wait on that.

Since there were have been lists of stats and flight and destination counts presented on this thread in the past couple of days, I decided to look closely at SAN for my own purposes. I'm sharing it here in case anyone else cares.

The near-term future for WN's station of SAN does not look very good to me; I think the summer 2021 schedule that operates might be much more telling but we have to wait for that. Comparing the Nov 2. 2019 and the current version of the Nov 1 2020 one are startling to me:
> in 2019, SAN saw 118 (weekday) departures to 32 nonstop destinations. (BTW, these counts are the revised skeds that actually operated, due, at that time, to the MAX groundings.)
> in 2020, SAN apparently is due to see 95 (weekday) flights to 22 destinations! That's 23 fewer flights to 1/3 fewer nonstop destinations in a year. The 10 destinations lost since last November are ATL, ELP, OMA, MCO, PDX, PVR, SJD, SEA, GEG & TPA. (Yikes!) We of course lost both of out int'l destinations plus 3 cities that were served only by WN -- ELP, OMA & TPA! (Depending on what the other cx, especially AS, schedule for the winter. IOW, that list of 3 to-be-unserved cities could shrink or grow depending on what happens from the competition. BTW, HNL & OGG do not show up anywhere here because neither route has not yet actually flown; who knows when/if that will ever happen now... the roller coaster ride from SAN to Hawaii continues.

Wow. All the above being said, it looks sadly to me like WN is shifting their emphasis to other stations across their network, and letting up on their presence at both SAN and LAX. I repeat that we could see some improvements in summer of 2021. I certainly hope so.

bb
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sun May 31, 2020 3:09 am

SANFan wrote:
BTW, HNL & OGG do not show up anywhere here because neither route has not yet actually flown; who knows when/if that will ever happen now... the roller coaster ride from SAN to Hawaii continues.

bb


Hi Bob, hope you are well.

Regarding Hawaii...they really can’t catch a break. SAN-HNL was supposed to start next week but has been delayed (again) because Hawaii extended the mandatory 14-day quarantine until June 30. The governor said he expects to extend it beyond that but I’m hearing sometime in July they’ll (hopefully) shift to reopening tourism. Once that happens I expect SAN to launch and SJC and SMF to resume. Fingers crossed!
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sun May 31, 2020 3:53 am

I think they might have been mentioned previously.

Starting in June there are 12 stations WN planned to focus on growing. Including plugging in smaller stations.
ATL/BNA/BWI/DAL/DEN/FLL/HOU/LAS/MDW/OAK/PHX/STL

I’m sure covid has changed those plans a bit but for the most part it seems to have played out so far in schedule updates from June and now this new one.
 
swacle
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sun May 31, 2020 10:35 am

avi8 wrote:
I take it they are focusing a little bit more on connections. Is 264 flights a day the greatest number of flights from a WN city ever?


264 all WN operated i belive is the highest ever, however for a while after the FL purchase MDW saw 270 departures, but about 20 of them were on FL metal.
Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
 
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SANFan
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sun May 31, 2020 5:40 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
I think they might have been mentioned previously.

Starting in June there are 12 stations WN planned to focus on growing. Including plugging in smaller stations.
ATL/BNA/BWI/DAL/DEN/FLL/HOU/LAS/MDW/OAK/PHX/STL

I’m sure covid has changed those plans a bit but for the most part it seems to have played out so far in schedule updates from June and now this new one.

Quick comment to Alaska Airlines: I hope you're paying attention to this post - note the lack of 'SAN' in this list of 'stations WN plans on growing'. Looks like an opening-door opportunity for you at your focus city in Southern California...

bb
 
tphuang
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sun May 31, 2020 6:22 pm

I think AS will be focused on bringing SEA back to full strength before all else. That's probably why WN is not in a rush to bring back SAN/SJC/LAX capacity. I still think it's big mistake for them to bring back LAX slower than rest of their system. It seems like they have resigned themselves to just serve people that mostly travel near by rather than having greater ambitions at LAX. A big mistake imo. LAX is getting handed on a silver platter to DL.

Hard to call FLL a growth station when they've cut there more than anywhere else. If anything, the most recent update has signaled they've given up on FLL. Huge reduction in destinations out of FLL and # of flights from BWI has only increased.

It's quite curious they've decided to poke the 900 lb behemoth at ATL. Will be interesting to see the dynamic between ATL and BNA.

Makes sense to try to build back up DEN to greater than pre-COVID size while UA is still looking to recover itself. DEN is a great domestic hub location. WN has a better chance of winning over ff in this type of stations more than it would in a a major coastal city.

PHX is also a logical move. I fully expect AA to bring it back slowly. WN will be the largest carrier there coming out of this.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:13 am

I think this is the first time I have seen Southwest say they have no date for the next schedule update. Not that I am surprised.

We are currently accepting air reservations through January 4, 2021. At this time, we do not have a date for our next schedule extension therefore please check back frequently.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:57 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
AAflyguy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
WN is really shrinking LAX, I saw that they are only running about 20 routes in this new extension, haven't seen the daily flight count but it must be low. Maybe its a similar story with SAN & OAK



WN is operating almost 40 daily departures on 20 routes out of OAK now and is supposed to increase to about 65 departures and 25 routes in June. That's a little over 50% of the June 2019 schedule. Should be 3 more routes added in July if Hawaii's visitor quarantine is lifted at the end of June. With the Nov schedule looks like OAK is back over 100 daily departures.

AAflyguy


Ran through LAX & SAN, both under 100 departures (97 & 95 respectively) for Nov 13th

You would think they would try to expand in LAX right now


Not a single coastal airport with growth (except Hawaii)

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Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
WNagent310
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:11 pm

Per our Station Manager at LAX. Los Angeles will see a slightly slower growth rate than other stations. Mainly focusing on frequency towards major East-West connection hubs and a slightly decrease in frequency in what was our hourly shuttle services to the Bay Area. What’s interesting is that in our recent LAWA lease negotiation meetings. We’ve scaled down the schedule to the point where we will still hold enough gates per our gate utilization. Being 107 daily it’s enough to hold all of Terminal 1 for the time being while we let the economy recover some more.

Currently. We have closed Gate 9 to store an extended sit of an aircraft not in use as well as parking another one right behind it in the Alley in front of Gate 11A. 11A is also not in use, we have staged and stored excess ground equipment on the gate.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5065
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:18 pm

WNagent310 wrote:
Per our Station Manager at LAX. Los Angeles will see a slightly slower growth rate than other stations. Mainly focusing on frequency towards major East-West connection hubs and a slightly decrease in frequency in what was our hourly shuttle services to the Bay Area. What’s interesting is that in our recent LAWA lease negotiation meetings. We’ve scaled down the schedule to the point where we will still hold enough gates per our gate utilization. Being 107 daily it’s enough to hold all of Terminal 1 for the time being while we let the economy recover some more.

Currently. We have closed Gate 9 to store an extended sit of an aircraft not in use as well as parking another one right behind it in the Alley in front of Gate 11A. 11A is also not in use, we have staged and stored excess ground equipment on the gate.


What is the gate utilization requirement at LAX to hold the gates? It seems like WN could be more ambitious here and go for more gates. I can't imagine AA/UA will be using its gates enough if it's like 7 turns a day.
 
WNagent310
Posts: 60
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:13 pm

tphuang wrote:
WNagent310 wrote:
Per our Station Manager at LAX. Los Angeles will see a slightly slower growth rate than other stations. Mainly focusing on frequency towards major East-West connection hubs and a slightly decrease in frequency in what was our hourly shuttle services to the Bay Area. What’s interesting is that in our recent LAWA lease negotiation meetings. We’ve scaled down the schedule to the point where we will still hold enough gates per our gate utilization. Being 107 daily it’s enough to hold all of Terminal 1 for the time being while we let the economy recover some more.

Currently. We have closed Gate 9 to store an extended sit of an aircraft not in use as well as parking another one right behind it in the Alley in front of Gate 11A. 11A is also not in use, we have staged and stored excess ground equipment on the gate.


What is the gate utilization requirement at LAX to hold the gates? It seems like WN could be more ambitious here and go for more gates. I can't imagine AA/UA will be using its gates enough if it's like 7 turns a day.


That I can’t answer. I was not in any of the meetings between WN Management and LAWA. That’s just the information that what was told by our Station Manager himself.

Being that we’re in Terminal 1 I can’t see any way to grab a hold of more gates. DL isn’t likely to give up anything in T2 and WN surely isn’t going to relocate to another terminal just to grab a few more gates if they were available. As of now even, DL and WN cannot agree on splitting the cost of T1.5. Once it’s complete there will be a wall seperating T1 and T2 until an agreement is reached.
 
SWADawg
Posts: 565
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:43 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:46 pm

WN as far as I know is still moving ahead with LAWA on plans for the Terminal 1E project that should be complete in the next 4-5 years or so. By then, traffic should have recovered to pre Covid levels to allow WN to resume growth at LAX.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
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