Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14977
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:16 am

mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Laulau wrote:

The inter island market is was only a 1 and 1/2 airline market before the pandemic. No saying what it is now-loads are pretty bad.....If u do not have a permanent base in HNl and are rotating planes in from the mainland I don't know what u see in the market????


What’s the problem with rotating planes from the mainland? It’s a cinch from a crew and aircraft scheduling perspective (turn a two day out and back trip into a three or four day trip with interisland in the middle) and spreads out the abuse that interisland puts on individual aircraft and arguably individual crews.



I don’t think too many carriers factor in crew “abuse” for a 3 hour time change to add costly inter island flying. They added the inter island flying because of their lack of ability to do all nighters and to attempt to poach HA traffic.


Abuse isn’t really the right word for the crew scheduling effects. A three day trip with a day of interisland in the middle makes the trips more typical for WN; they have very few long out and backs.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4747
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:01 am

mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Laulau wrote:

The inter island market is was only a 1 and 1/2 airline market before the pandemic. No saying what it is now-loads are pretty bad.....If u do not have a permanent base in HNl and are rotating planes in from the mainland I don't know what u see in the market????


What’s the problem with rotating planes from the mainland? It’s a cinch from a crew and aircraft scheduling perspective (turn a two day out and back trip into a three or four day trip with interisland in the middle) and spreads out the abuse that interisland puts on individual aircraft and arguably individual crews.


SW is cornered a bit with their Hawaii flying because of the times they operate. Relying heavily on west coast feed is not ideal. With the COVID restrictions in the west coast states and serving a highly covid restricted state in HI it can’t be good for them in the market. The locals that I know say they will make an effort to support Hawaiian Air lines. When they resume their personal travels the mantra to support local jobs is strong. Maybe SWA picked to wrong time to start HI service and to do it in such a non economical manner.


I haven’t run into your circle of locals yet. There’s still a lot of bitterness around the islands over Hawaiian’s pricing when they were the only carrier. Read the comments on social media under any news story about HA’s financial struggles during the pandemic to see countless “serves them right” comments from the people.

The local brand loyalty concept is way overstated on this site.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
User avatar
Laulau
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:56 pm

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:28 am

Cubsrule wrote:
Laulau wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:

They haven’t said anything about it. This is just speculation. And flying “empty” planes to Hawaii (they’re not the only ones) is out of necessity to rotate aircraft and crews to handle the interisland operation (which has been up and down in relation to quarantines being imposed and lifted).

Hawaii’s numbers have been forced down because of the quarantine. They should bounce back a bit when the state reopens. It will be interesting to see how things play out starting October 15.

As for closing stations... When MIA and PSP were announced he stated in bold that there are currently no plans to close any stations. Can never say never but yeah. As long as this pandemic is dragging on a lot of markets are still suppressed by temporary restrictions. Hang on to what you can, let things open up and see how it plays out in a recovery phase before completely bailing, IMO.

Also, airlines are still lobbying for an extension of payroll support so yeah they’re going to hint at what could happen without additional support.


The inter island market is was only a 1 and 1/2 airline market before the pandemic. No saying what it is now-loads are pretty bad.....If u do not have a permanent base in HNl and are rotating planes in from the mainland I don't know what u see in the market????


What’s the problem with rotating planes from the mainland? It’s a cinch from a crew and aircraft scheduling perspective (turn a two day out and back trip into a three or four day trip with interisland in the middle) and spreads out the abuse that interisland puts on individual aircraft and arguably individual crews.


The problem is it EFFICENCY and cost of flying EMPTY planes just reposition in the islands. Doesn't seem like a good decision with with the inter-island quarantine still in effect..
Loads will be depressed in the future and inter island market is LOSING endeavor for Southwest-would stick to just flying from/to the west coast.
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4747
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:44 am

Laulau wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Laulau wrote:

The inter island market is was only a 1 and 1/2 airline market before the pandemic. No saying what it is now-loads are pretty bad.....If u do not have a permanent base in HNl and are rotating planes in from the mainland I don't know what u see in the market????


What’s the problem with rotating planes from the mainland? It’s a cinch from a crew and aircraft scheduling perspective (turn a two day out and back trip into a three or four day trip with interisland in the middle) and spreads out the abuse that interisland puts on individual aircraft and arguably individual crews.


The problem is it EFFICENCY and cost of flying EMPTY planes just reposition in the islands. Doesn't seem like a good decision with with the inter-island quarantine still in effect..
Loads will be depressed in the future and inter island market is LOSING endeavor for Southwest-would stick to just flying from/to the west coast.


I’m arguing semantics here but let’s be clear the planes are not empty. Loads aren’t good but they are still carrying customers and now freight as well. The interisland loads are hurting more but over the summer when the quarantine was lifted the loads jumped back up considerably overnight. And the reverse happened when the quarantine came back.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
737max8
Posts: 706
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:25 am

People are seriously doubting WN in Hawaii during a pandemic when the state required quarantine for ANY travelers AND interisland. Seriously?????

WN was absolutely crushing it in Hawaii before Covid, and was trying to expand as fast as possible with all the ETOPS birds they got.

Now, as for what cities actually could be cut...I could see cities like

GSP
IAD
DSM
ICT
GRR
ORF
RIC
PWM

I'd say CRP/HRL possibly too but I do think the Texas cities are sorta untouchable. I've heard cargo is good from down there. No way on ELP, it's a fairly busy station. Shoot I thought about going to White Sands this weekend but there wasn't a single seat available Friday-Sunday.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
Flown on: 717 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 7M8 744 744ER 752 753 762 763 772 773ER 788 789 A220 A319/20/21 A332 A333 A339 A343 A346 A359 A388
 
WN732
Posts: 953
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:29 am

mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Laulau wrote:

The inter island market is was only a 1 and 1/2 airline market before the pandemic. No saying what it is now-loads are pretty bad.....If u do not have a permanent base in HNl and are rotating planes in from the mainland I don't know what u see in the market????


What’s the problem with rotating planes from the mainland? It’s a cinch from a crew and aircraft scheduling perspective (turn a two day out and back trip into a three or four day trip with interisland in the middle) and spreads out the abuse that interisland puts on individual aircraft and arguably individual crews.



I don’t think too many carriers factor in crew “abuse” for a 3 hour time change to add costly inter island flying. They added the inter island flying because of their lack of ability to do all nighters and to attempt to poach HA traffic.

SW is cornered a bit with their Hawaii flying because of the times they operate. Relying heavily on west coast feed is not ideal. With the COVID restrictions in the west coast states and serving a highly covid restricted state in HI it can’t be good for them in the market. The locals that I know say they will make an effort to support Hawaiian Air lines. When they resume their personal travels the mantra to support local jobs is strong. Maybe SWA picked to wrong time to start HI service and to do it in such a non economical manner.


The state desperately needed competition. They were doing very well prior to the pandemic. This would have been an even better year for them without COVID. WN is very good at making money, moreso than most. You act as if the interisland travel is solely dependant on locals. It's definitely not. But I'm sure there is a growing number of Rapid Reward members in Hawaii too. Not to mention that the grand army of RR members want to see more than one island. Alaska can't even do that for their customers. It's really a one to three punch for them to offer interisland. Your bags fly free all the way. No one can match that. The market can support both and WN is going to be fine in Hawaii. Just like they'll be fine in LGB which is another one that you like to focus on.
 
737max8
Posts: 706
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:37 am

WN732 wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

What’s the problem with rotating planes from the mainland? It’s a cinch from a crew and aircraft scheduling perspective (turn a two day out and back trip into a three or four day trip with interisland in the middle) and spreads out the abuse that interisland puts on individual aircraft and arguably individual crews.



I don’t think too many carriers factor in crew “abuse” for a 3 hour time change to add costly inter island flying. They added the inter island flying because of their lack of ability to do all nighters and to attempt to poach HA traffic.

SW is cornered a bit with their Hawaii flying because of the times they operate. Relying heavily on west coast feed is not ideal. With the COVID restrictions in the west coast states and serving a highly covid restricted state in HI it can’t be good for them in the market. The locals that I know say they will make an effort to support Hawaiian Air lines. When they resume their personal travels the mantra to support local jobs is strong. Maybe SWA picked to wrong time to start HI service and to do it in such a non economical manner.


The state desperately needed competition. They were doing very well prior to the pandemic. This would have been an even better year for them without COVID. WN is very good at making money, moreso than most. You act as if the interisland travel is solely dependant on locals. It's definitely not. But I'm sure there is a growing number of Rapid Reward members in Hawaii too. Not to mention that the grand army of RR members want to see more than one island. Alaska can't even do that for their customers. It's really a one to three punch for them to offer interisland. Your bags fly free all the way. No one can match that. The market can support both and WN is going to be fine in Hawaii. Just like they'll be fine in LGB which is another one that you like to focus on.


Gotta love folks bashing WN for doing something "non economical" when they keep making more profit per revenue than anyone else.

(Of course during covid everything is different, speaking about in normal conditions. WN has clearly reduced to a minimum to keep the operation at least going at this time).
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
Flown on: 717 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 7M8 744 744ER 752 753 762 763 772 773ER 788 789 A220 A319/20/21 A332 A333 A339 A343 A346 A359 A388
 
User avatar
Laulau
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:56 pm

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:52 am

737max8 wrote:
WN732 wrote:
mcdu wrote:


I don’t think too many carriers factor in crew “abuse” for a 3 hour time change to add costly inter island flying. They added the inter island flying because of their lack of ability to do all nighters and to attempt to poach HA traffic.

SW is cornered a bit with their Hawaii flying because of the times they operate. Relying heavily on west coast feed is not ideal. With the COVID restrictions in the west coast states and serving a highly covid restricted state in HI it can’t be good for them in the market. The locals that I know say they will make an effort to support Hawaiian Air lines. When they resume their personal travels the mantra to support local jobs is strong. Maybe SWA picked to wrong time to start HI service and to do it in such a non economical manner.


The state desperately needed competition. They were doing very well prior to the pandemic. This would have been an even better year for them without COVID. WN is very good at making money, moreso than most. You act as if the interisland travel is solely dependant on locals. It's definitely not. But I'm sure there is a growing number of Rapid Reward members in Hawaii too. Not to mention that the grand army of RR members want to see more than one island. Alaska can't even do that for their customers. It's really a one to three punch for them to offer interisland. Your bags fly free all the way. No one can match that. The market can support both and WN is going to be fine in Hawaii. Just like they'll be fine in LGB which is another one that you like to focus on.


Gotta love folks bashing WN for doing something "non economical" when they keep making more profit per revenue than anyone else.

(Of course during covid everything is different, speaking about in normal conditions. WN has clearly reduced to a minimum to keep the operation at least going at this time).



NOBODY including Southwest is safe in this current economic climate. Quit drinking the SW cool aid-UR drunk on it! Business travel will never return to pre-covid level for years.
In addition with the problems that still exists with the Max???? I think SW has ALOT to worry about!
 
WN732
Posts: 953
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:07 am

Laulau wrote:
737max8 wrote:
WN732 wrote:

The state desperately needed competition. They were doing very well prior to the pandemic. This would have been an even better year for them without COVID. WN is very good at making money, moreso than most. You act as if the interisland travel is solely dependant on locals. It's definitely not. But I'm sure there is a growing number of Rapid Reward members in Hawaii too. Not to mention that the grand army of RR members want to see more than one island. Alaska can't even do that for their customers. It's really a one to three punch for them to offer interisland. Your bags fly free all the way. No one can match that. The market can support both and WN is going to be fine in Hawaii. Just like they'll be fine in LGB which is another one that you like to focus on.


Gotta love folks bashing WN for doing something "non economical" when they keep making more profit per revenue than anyone else.

(Of course during covid everything is different, speaking about in normal conditions. WN has clearly reduced to a minimum to keep the operation at least going at this time).



NOBODY including Southwest is safe in this current economic climate. Quit drinking the SW cool aid-UR drunk on it! Business travel will never return to pre-covid level for years.
In addition with the problems that still exists with the Max???? I think SW has ALOT to worry about!


Did you not see where I mentioned that everything was great prior to the pandemic. Obviously no one is making money right now. I really don't think anyone is concerned very much about the Max, it's actually probably better that it's off the table. But that too will change. Of course they have a lot to worry about. I'm talking about Hawaii and I was referring to 2019's performance. Leisure is where it's going to be for a while, and what's better than tapping into the largest vacation market from the West coast. Did I mention that they are the largest carrier in California? If you have been paying attention, they're already shifting the strategy away from business, as is everyone else. It will take a while for things to be profitable again, but without a doubt, WN will be making money again. That's not Kool Aid, that's just facts.

To 737Max8:

You're absolutely right. The numbers speak for themselves. We're in hard times now, but this too shall pass.
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 2714
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:27 am

So it is basic supply and demand. Very few want to travel when there is a deadly disease that is uncontrolled (at least in the US), and so WN has to make cuts to match the current demand
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
dbo861
Posts: 1068
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 2:20 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:35 am

The next schedule extension was pushed back to December 10.
 
737max8
Posts: 706
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:38 am

Laulau wrote:
737max8 wrote:
WN732 wrote:

The state desperately needed competition. They were doing very well prior to the pandemic. This would have been an even better year for them without COVID. WN is very good at making money, moreso than most. You act as if the interisland travel is solely dependant on locals. It's definitely not. But I'm sure there is a growing number of Rapid Reward members in Hawaii too. Not to mention that the grand army of RR members want to see more than one island. Alaska can't even do that for their customers. It's really a one to three punch for them to offer interisland. Your bags fly free all the way. No one can match that. The market can support both and WN is going to be fine in Hawaii. Just like they'll be fine in LGB which is another one that you like to focus on.


Gotta love folks bashing WN for doing something "non economical" when they keep making more profit per revenue than anyone else.

(Of course during covid everything is different, speaking about in normal conditions. WN has clearly reduced to a minimum to keep the operation at least going at this time).



NOBODY including Southwest is safe in this current economic climate. Quit drinking the SW cool aid-UR drunk on it! Business travel will never return to pre-covid level for years.
In addition with the problems that still exists with the Max???? I think SW has ALOT to worry about!


Where did I say Southwest is safe in this environment? I didn't. Of course no one is. If it lasts how it is today, we're all screwed. But I don't think this current environment is going to last forever. WN can weather the storm...WN is in a better position to handle it than most if not all airlines. Tons of cash in the bank, strong focus on leisure, gaining good will of customers for now, and I am confident once a vaccine is available WN can be back to breaking even in 2021 even if a smaller airline.

As for the MAX...yeah...it's not really a problem now. Plus WN has saved a lot of cash not paying for new deliveries. And if they want to use the MAX, it's looking like it will be available sometime between Q4 2020 and Q1 2021. While there will be some cost up front to acquire airplanes, I'm sure WN has smart people to calculate how many and when (working with Boeing), and some of that cost is offset by retiring 20+ year old NGs that have become expensive to operate and have expensive heavy checks coming up soon.

A lot of people love to doubt WN on this board, but the results always speak for themselves. Most comments are based on emotion and opinion though, not on fact, and without industry experience.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
Flown on: 717 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 7M8 744 744ER 752 753 762 763 772 773ER 788 789 A220 A319/20/21 A332 A333 A339 A343 A346 A359 A388
 
SXDFC
Posts: 2099
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:07 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:59 am

Saw on a few IG pages (not sure how reliable that is) that N918WN (Illinois One) has been retired. According to FR24 it’s last flight was DAL- PAE, and hasn’t flown since..
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5565
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:35 am

jplatts wrote:
I have noticed that extra frequencies are currently showing up on many WN nonstop routes in its 2021 flight schedules, including the following:
  • ATL-GSP - currently showing up as 8x on 4/5/2020 vs. the normal 3x
  • ATL-RIC - currently showing up as 8x on 4/5/2020 vs. the normal 3x
  • DAL-AMA - currently showing up as 9x on 4/5/2020 vs. the normal 4x
  • DAL-AUS - currently showing up as 23x on 4/5/2020 vs. the normal 10x
  • DAL-MDW - currently showing up as 22x on 4/5/2020 vs. the 9x originally scheduled
  • DAL-DEN - currently showing up as 26x on 4/5/2020 vs. the 9x originally scheduled
  • DAL-ELP - currently showing up as 12x on 4/5/2020 vs. the normal 4x
  • DAL-HOU - currently showing up as 26x on 4/5/2020 vs. the 16x originally scheduled
  • DAL-LGA - currently showing up as 12x on 4/5/2020 vs. the 4x originally scheduled
  • DAL-LBB - currently showing up as 13x on 4/5/2020 vs. the normal 5x
  • DAL-MAF - currently showing up as 11x on 4/5/2020 vs. the normal 5x
  • DAL-STL - currently showing up as 17x on 4/5/2020 vs. the normal 6x
  • DAL-SAT - currently showing up as 24x on 4/5/2020 vs. the normal 10x
  • DSM-STL - currently showing up as 5x on 4/5/2020 vs. the normal 2x
  • HOU-CRP - currently showing up as 8x on 4/5/2020 vs. the normal 4x
  • HOU-HRL - currently showing up as 11x on 4/5/2020 vs. the normal 5x
  • MDW-STL - currently showing up as 16x on 4/5/2020 vs. the normal 8x
  • STL-ICT - currently showing up as 5x on 4/5/2020 vs. the normal 2x

I have also noticed that many of the extra flights that are currently showing up in WN's January 2021 - April 2021 flight schedule have similar departure times.

I know that WN will very likely be dropping many of the extra flights that are showing up in its 2021 flight schedules as there isn't enough demand to justify operating all of the flights currently showing up in WN's January 2021 - April 2021 flight schedules. WN also does not currently have enough planes in its fleet to cover all of the extra flights that are currently showing up in its January 2021 - April 2021 flight schedules with the 737 MAX still grounded.

I do see what you saw but it has to be some sort of glitch. I looked at DAL-SAN on 4/5/21 & it shows ~13 flights which is insane.

You mention the lack of planes for WN to fly that many trips but how about gate space in DAL? I haven't totaled the frequencies listed for just DAL but there certainly is not the gate space at Love Field for that number of flights.

Good find but it has to be wrong....

bb
 
User avatar
KLMatSJC
Posts: 840
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:16 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:40 am

SXDFC wrote:
Saw on a few IG pages (not sure how reliable that is) that N918WN (Illinois One) has been retired. According to FR24 it’s last flight was DAL- PAE, and hasn’t flown since..

ATS does maintenance for WN planes up there. Plus, I believe there's quite a few birds parked up there because of COVID. Could be up there for either of those reasons, but I highly doubt it's being retired. It's one of the newest -700s.
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
DaCubbyBearBar
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:48 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
SXDFC wrote:
Saw on a few IG pages (not sure how reliable that is) that N918WN (Illinois One) has been retired. According to FR24 it’s last flight was DAL- PAE, and hasn’t flown since..

ATS does maintenance for WN planes up there. Plus, I believe there's quite a few birds parked up there because of COVID. Could be up there for either of those reasons, but I highly doubt it's being retired. It's one of the newest -700s.

ACCORDING to FlightAware, this plane is not owned by WN. It is on a lease I presume then. Is this lease up, I have no way of knowing. If it is though, giving it up saves WN a few dollars every month. There are plenty of planes sitting around that could cover for its POSSIBLE departure. Who has pictures? Has the tail been painted??
I am me and no one else...so my opinions are mine
 
Patroni1
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:56 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:43 pm

Aircraft N918WN Illinois One has been returned to the lessor.Going into MX check then painted white.
 
DDR
Posts: 1737
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:09 pm

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:29 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
DDR wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Is there any substance to this rumour or just rank speculation from a (not very reliable) clickbait site? The small Texas stations have underperformed compared to the rest of the network for years if not decades.


Exactly. WN isn't going to cut any TX stations. CRP, HRL. AMA, etc. are not going to be cut.


Those are the stations that should cut, lack of demand, wrong size plane in the market.


They will not be cut from the system. WN may cut back on frequency but they will not drop these cities.
 
mcg
Posts: 1148
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:49 am

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:39 pm

FWIW I see WN reducing the number of flights per day in certain markets.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9310
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:50 pm

DDR wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
DDR wrote:

Exactly. WN isn't going to cut any TX stations. CRP, HRL. AMA, etc. are not going to be cut.


Those are the stations that should cut, lack of demand, wrong size plane in the market.


They will not be cut from the system. WN may cut back on frequency but they will not drop these cities.


Because, Texas? Frequency, along with other elements of connectivity, is an important competitive factor. At some point WN is going to have to be pragmatic as the losses pile up. You want WN to explain to institutional shareholders that it should load on debt just to keep low volume stations in Texas open? Every dollar of debt plus interest is a dollar that doesn't go to shareholders.
 
Lootess
Posts: 598
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:06 pm

You can see some markets are becoming a drag like Hawaii, and that's just simply because of COVID rules over there. If anything they couldn't have picked a worse time to launch Hawaii.

SWADawg wrote:
I highly doubt that WN will exit any markets completely. More than likely he means that certain city pairs might be cut due to Covid. Cutting service is totally different than closing stations completely.


EWR
 
mcdu
Posts: 1662
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:18 pm

Silver1SWA wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

What’s the problem with rotating planes from the mainland? It’s a cinch from a crew and aircraft scheduling perspective (turn a two day out and back trip into a three or four day trip with interisland in the middle) and spreads out the abuse that interisland puts on individual aircraft and arguably individual crews.


SW is cornered a bit with their Hawaii flying because of the times they operate. Relying heavily on west coast feed is not ideal. With the COVID restrictions in the west coast states and serving a highly covid restricted state in HI it can’t be good for them in the market. The locals that I know say they will make an effort to support Hawaiian Air lines. When they resume their personal travels the mantra to support local jobs is strong. Maybe SWA picked to wrong time to start HI service and to do it in such a non economical manner.


I haven’t run into your circle of locals yet. There’s still a lot of bitterness around the islands over Hawaiian’s pricing when they were the only carrier. Read the comments on social media under any news story about HA’s financial struggles during the pandemic to see countless “serves them right” comments from the people.

The local brand loyalty concept is way overstated on this site.


Do you believe that SWA doesn’t have brand loyalty and that concept is overstated on this site?

I’m not saying I have polled the Hawaiian population. Just my circle of friends and their friends have conveyed they will patronize Hawaiian Airlines when possible. Many have family connections to the airline and snubbing them might be hurting their own relatives.

At this time there are not a lot of travelers outside of locals flying around the islands. In my own opinion these island to island flights will get whacked along with a lot of other stations at SW....
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14977
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:38 pm

mcdu wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
mcdu wrote:

SW is cornered a bit with their Hawaii flying because of the times they operate. Relying heavily on west coast feed is not ideal. With the COVID restrictions in the west coast states and serving a highly covid restricted state in HI it can’t be good for them in the market. The locals that I know say they will make an effort to support Hawaiian Air lines. When they resume their personal travels the mantra to support local jobs is strong. Maybe SWA picked to wrong time to start HI service and to do it in such a non economical manner.


I haven’t run into your circle of locals yet. There’s still a lot of bitterness around the islands over Hawaiian’s pricing when they were the only carrier. Read the comments on social media under any news story about HA’s financial struggles during the pandemic to see countless “serves them right” comments from the people.

The local brand loyalty concept is way overstated on this site.


Do you believe that SWA doesn’t have brand loyalty and that concept is overstated on this site?

I’m not saying I have polled the Hawaiian population. Just my circle of friends and their friends have conveyed they will patronize Hawaiian Airlines when possible. Many have family connections to the airline and snubbing them might be hurting their own relatives.

At this time there are not a lot of travelers outside of locals flying around the islands. In my own opinion these island to island flights will get whacked along with a lot of other stations at SW....


Assuming WN keeps mainland service, the marginal cost of interisland is pretty low.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
WN732
Posts: 953
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:57 pm

I'm sure they'll replace Illinois One as they have with the previous retirements but I'd imagine they won't do it until there's some normality returned to air travel.

That just boosted the Gemini Jets models value.
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4747
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:26 pm

mcdu wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
mcdu wrote:

SW is cornered a bit with their Hawaii flying because of the times they operate. Relying heavily on west coast feed is not ideal. With the COVID restrictions in the west coast states and serving a highly covid restricted state in HI it can’t be good for them in the market. The locals that I know say they will make an effort to support Hawaiian Air lines. When they resume their personal travels the mantra to support local jobs is strong. Maybe SWA picked to wrong time to start HI service and to do it in such a non economical manner.


I haven’t run into your circle of locals yet. There’s still a lot of bitterness around the islands over Hawaiian’s pricing when they were the only carrier. Read the comments on social media under any news story about HA’s financial struggles during the pandemic to see countless “serves them right” comments from the people.

The local brand loyalty concept is way overstated on this site.


Do you believe that SWA doesn’t have brand loyalty and that concept is overstated on this site?

I’m not saying I have polled the Hawaiian population. Just my circle of friends and their friends have conveyed they will patronize Hawaiian Airlines when possible. Many have family connections to the airline and snubbing them might be hurting their own relatives.

At this time there are not a lot of travelers outside of locals flying around the islands. In my own opinion these island to island flights will get whacked along with a lot of other stations at SW....


A lot of things are overstated on this site, topics relating to WN included.

And nobody is flying around the islands right now. Hawaii is shut down with quarantines for both interisland and mainland travel. It’s all bad at the moment but it isn’t forever and everyone knows that. Again, when the interisland quarantine was stopped for two months over the summer, interisland travel started booming again even with the mainland quarantine still in effect. But all of that stopped when the quarantine came back.

It isn’t fair to use the current loads to predict what’s going to happen in Hawaii long term.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4254
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:26 am

SANFan wrote:
I do see what you saw but it has to be some sort of glitch. I looked at DAL-SAN on 4/5/21 & it shows ~13 flights which is insane.

You mention the lack of planes for WN to fly that many trips but how about gate space in DAL? I haven't totaled the frequencies listed for just DAL but there certainly is not the gate space at Love Field for that number of flights.

Good find but it has to be wrong....


Most of the extra flights that are currently showing up in the Southwest flight schedules (which can be found at https://www.southwest.com/air/flight-schedules/index.html?clk=GSUBNAV-AIR-SCHEDULES) are not being offered for sale and do not show up when you try to book a flight at https://www.southwest.com.

WN does not have enough gate space at DAL and some other stations to operate all of the flights that are currently showing up in the flight schedules at https://www.southwest.com/air/flight-schedules/index.html?clk=GSUBNAV-AIR-SCHEDULES.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4254
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:38 pm

USAirALB wrote:
If it came to it, I could see IAD and GSP being dropped.


DLASFlyer wrote:
I wouldn't look so much at stations in June 2020 but where was underperforming even before the pandemic


737max8 wrote:
Now, as for what cities actually could be cut...I could see cities like

IAD


Here were the load factors for WN ATL-IAD nonstop service in the January 2019 - June 2020 period:
January 2019 - 54.70%
February 2019 - 53.38%
March 2019 - 60.73%
April 2019 - 67.89%
May 2019 - 69.09%
June 2019 - 67.69%
July 2019 - 68.80%
August 2019 - 75.26%
September 2019 - 49.33%
October 2019 - 69.50%
November 2019 - 66.21%
December 2019 - 67.28%
January 2020 - 41.69%
February 2020 - 41.64%
March 2020 - 25.31%
April 2020 - 4.86%
May 2020 - 10.62%
June 2020 - 25.04%

I agree that WN dropping ATL-IAD nonstop service is a possibility with
(a) WN having weak load factors on the ATL-IAD route prior to the COVID-19 pandemic,
(b) WN already serving ATL nonstop from DCA and BWI in addition to IAD in the DC/Baltimore market,
(c) WN already having nonstop service out of BWI to most of the destinations that it serves nonstop from ATL, and
(d) the passengers who were traveling on WN ATL-IAD nonstop flights (both O&D and connecting) having other options to the DC market on WN.

On the other hand, WN had an average load factor of 86.64% on DEN-IAD nonstop service in the January 2019 through February 2020 time period, but demand and load factors significantly declined on WN's DEN-IAD nonstop route during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Reasons why WN has hung onto DEN-IAD nonstop service, even with WN's minimal presence at IAD, include the following:
(a) IAD being located approximately 60 miles west of BWI,
(b) DEN being outside of the DCA perimeter,
(c) large WN presence in the DC/Baltimore market due to its BWI "hub" and DCA having a bigger WN presence than IAD,
(d) WN having a frequent flyer base in DC, Denver, and some markets west of the Rocky Mountains to support WN DEN-IAD nonstop service, and
(e) some passengers connecting to destinations further west from IAD through DEN on WN.

WN could more easily pull out of IAD if extra beyond-perimeter slot exemptions are added at DCA and if WN gets additional beyond-perimeter slot exemptions that can be used for DEN-DCA nonstop service as there would be less need to maintain a WN presence at IAD if it acquires beyond-perimeter slot exemptions that can be used on the DEN-DCA nonstop route.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1662
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:04 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:

I haven’t run into your circle of locals yet. There’s still a lot of bitterness around the islands over Hawaiian’s pricing when they were the only carrier. Read the comments on social media under any news story about HA’s financial struggles during the pandemic to see countless “serves them right” comments from the people.

The local brand loyalty concept is way overstated on this site.


Do you believe that SWA doesn’t have brand loyalty and that concept is overstated on this site?

I’m not saying I have polled the Hawaiian population. Just my circle of friends and their friends have conveyed they will patronize Hawaiian Airlines when possible. Many have family connections to the airline and snubbing them might be hurting their own relatives.

At this time there are not a lot of travelers outside of locals flying around the islands. In my own opinion these island to island flights will get whacked along with a lot of other stations at SW....


Assuming WN keeps mainland service, the marginal cost of interisland is pretty low.


Do you have numbers to support that statement?

At my company FA’s often work over and back on the Hawaii flights making them a west coast turn. Occasionally the pilots will fly one way and Deadhead the other making it a turn. These are highly efficient and highly sought after. I don’t know how they can take that kind of “abuse” without having a layover and flying an island to island flight before they return from that big 3 hour time change and 4:30 flight time. <tic>.

I think there is a lot of stations that SWA will trim if this doesn’t recover. In my opinion Kelly is a realists like most CEO’s and he won’t keep stations in the current environment if it’s not even marginal now and the future doesn’t look better. Unlike those with “overstated brand loyalty” Kelly will take the measures to ensure SW survival. He is already pulling the schedule down and backed off his declaration of flying 100% of the schedule this fall. Station closures are going to be a thing for every airline including WN.
 
swacle
Posts: 540
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:41 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:09 pm

jplatts wrote:
SANFan wrote:
I do see what you saw but it has to be some sort of glitch. I looked at DAL-SAN on 4/5/21 & it shows ~13 flights which is insane.

You mention the lack of planes for WN to fly that many trips but how about gate space in DAL? I haven't totaled the frequencies listed for just DAL but there certainly is not the gate space at Love Field for that number of flights.

Good find but it has to be wrong....


Most of the extra flights that are currently showing up in the Southwest flight schedules (which can be found at https://www.southwest.com/air/flight-schedules/index.html?clk=GSUBNAV-AIR-SCHEDULES) are not being offered for sale and do not show up when you try to book a flight at https://www.southwest.com.

WN does not have enough gate space at DAL and some other stations to operate all of the flights that are currently showing up in the flight schedules at https://www.southwest.com/air/flight-schedules/index.html?clk=GSUBNAV-AIR-SCHEDULES.


Its so glaringly obvious that its a glitch I am not even sure why someone would not only post about it, but write 3 lengthy replies. Looks to me like 2 different versions of the schedule are searchable but only 1 is bookable.
Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14977
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:17 pm

mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
mcdu wrote:

Do you believe that SWA doesn’t have brand loyalty and that concept is overstated on this site?

I’m not saying I have polled the Hawaiian population. Just my circle of friends and their friends have conveyed they will patronize Hawaiian Airlines when possible. Many have family connections to the airline and snubbing them might be hurting their own relatives.

At this time there are not a lot of travelers outside of locals flying around the islands. In my own opinion these island to island flights will get whacked along with a lot of other stations at SW....


Assuming WN keeps mainland service, the marginal cost of interisland is pretty low.


Do you have numbers to support that statement?

At my company FA’s often work over and back on the Hawaii flights making them a west coast turn. Occasionally the pilots will fly one way and Deadhead the other making it a turn. These are highly efficient and highly sought after. I don’t know how they can take that kind of “abuse” without having a layover and flying an island to island flight before they return from that big 3 hour time change and 4:30 flight time. <tic>.

I think there is a lot of stations that SWA will trim if this doesn’t recover. In my opinion Kelly is a realists like most CEO’s and he won’t keep stations in the current environment if it’s not even marginal now and the future doesn’t look better. Unlike those with “overstated brand loyalty” Kelly will take the measures to ensure SW survival. He is already pulling the schedule down and backed off his declaration of flying 100% of the schedule this fall. Station closures are going to be a thing for every airline including WN.


It's really a question of fixed versus variable costs. The fixed costs of the stations are there if mainland service exists, and because of WN's lack of redeyes and consequent poor aircraft and crew utilization, something you pointed out yourself, the opportunity costs of the crews and aircraft - things we traditionally think of as 100 percent variable costs - are lower than they would be for a comparable flight on the mainland.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
joeblow10
Posts: 554
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:32 pm

I don’t know logistically or financially how much it costs but if WN could pull off the rapid testing that UA is going to add for Hawaii flights, that would probably help them quite a bit.

I can get a COVID test on my own before I leave I guess, but it’s kind of a pain in the a**. Cases have been up so testing for people without symptoms is no longer as easy where I’m at, and I would love it if I could just take a rapid swab on the aircraft rather than call my doctor and potentially wait days
 
jplatts
Posts: 4254
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:08 pm

Here were the U.S. stations where WN carried the fewest passengers in June 2019:
GSP - 18339
CRP - 19982
RIC - 20155
DSM - 21684
PWM - 27821
AMA - 29811
ICT - 30112
ROC - 30344
GRR - 30751
HRL - 34035

Here were the 68 WN stations in the contiguous U.S. that carried over 18,000 passengers June 2020:
ABQ, ALB, ATL, AUS, BDL, BHM, BNA, BOI, BOS, BUF, BUR, BWI, CHS, CLE, CMH, CVG, DAL, DCA, DEN, DTW, ECP, ELP, FLL, GEG, HOU, IND, ISP, JAX, LAS, LAX, LBB, LGA, MAF, MCI, MCO, MDW, MEM, MHT, MKE, MSP, MSY, OAK, OKC, OMA, ONT, ORF, PDX, PHL, PHX, PIT, PNS, PVD, RDU, RNO, RSW, SAN, SAT, SDF, SEA, SFO, SJC, SLC, SMF, SNA, STL, TPA, TUL, TUS

WN will probably continue to serve the 68 stations listed above since the 68 stations listed above likely have enough demand (based on number of passengers carried in June 2020) to support at least a minimal WN presence, even with the decline in demand for air travel during the COVID-19 pandemic. However, I certainly expect WN to make some cuts throughout its network until demand returns to normal levels.
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4747
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:34 pm

mcdu wrote:
Unlike those with “overstated brand loyalty”


I’m confused by your use of this. You know my comment about brand loyalty was referring to the idea that’s perpetuated around here that people in Hawaii won’t support outside companies right? That point is overblown on this website.

Of course station closings are a possibility if things don’t improve. But there’s a reluctance to do that when everyone knows the current air travel situation will not last forever. Nothing is profitable for any airline right now. WN has the financial position to be a little more patient but obviously the longer this goes the more likely they’ll need to take action. But I image that decision would be made when a long term picture becomes more clear for a particular market.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1662
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:55 pm

Silver1SWA wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Unlike those with “overstated brand loyalty”


I’m confused by your use of this. You know my comment about brand loyalty was referring to the idea that’s perpetuated around here that people in Hawaii won’t support outside companies right? That point is overblown on this website.
.


You mentioned “overstated brand loyalty “ and it is obvious the same can be said about WN on this website. In the case of Hawaii those in my neighborhood and friends are circling the wagons around local establishments as a result pandemic.

Guess we will know SWA’s plan in the near future.
 
737max8
Posts: 706
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:56 pm

mcdu wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Unlike those with “overstated brand loyalty”


I’m confused by your use of this. You know my comment about brand loyalty was referring to the idea that’s perpetuated around here that people in Hawaii won’t support outside companies right? That point is overblown on this website.
.


You mentioned “overstated brand loyalty “ and it is obvious the same can be said about WN on this website. In the case of Hawaii those in my neighborhood and friends are circling the wagons around local establishments as a result pandemic.

Guess we will know SWA’s plan in the near future.


Good thing there are a lot more people in the world than your friends. And those people will fly Southwest with their low fares, friendly service, and FREE bags.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
Flown on: 717 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 7M8 744 744ER 752 753 762 763 772 773ER 788 789 A220 A319/20/21 A332 A333 A339 A343 A346 A359 A388
 
freakyrat
Posts: 2214
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:39 pm

ctrabs0114 wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
As for closing stations... When MIA and PSP were announced he stated in bold that there are currently no plans to close any stations. Can never say never but yeah. As long as this pandemic is dragging on a lot of markets are still suppressed by temporary restrictions. Hang on to what you can, let things open up and see how it plays out in a recovery phase before completely bailing, IMO.


I must have missed this, but WN to PSP and MIA? PSP isn't a bad addition to the WN network considering their overall strength in California, relative to most markets, but MIA? Either WN is not as high on FLL as they once were or there's something else that I'm missing. (And, yes, I know this is probably more relevant to the WN Network thread, but I'm too tired to search for it at the moment.)


Southwest flies jets into MIA for Conract Heavy maintenance.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4015
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:26 pm

swacle wrote:
jplatts wrote:
SANFan wrote:
I do see what you saw but it has to be some sort of glitch. I looked at DAL-SAN on 4/5/21 & it shows ~13 flights which is insane.

You mention the lack of planes for WN to fly that many trips but how about gate space in DAL? I haven't totaled the frequencies listed for just DAL but there certainly is not the gate space at Love Field for that number of flights.

Good find but it has to be wrong....


Most of the extra flights that are currently showing up in the Southwest flight schedules (which can be found at https://www.southwest.com/air/flight-schedules/index.html?clk=GSUBNAV-AIR-SCHEDULES) are not being offered for sale and do not show up when you try to book a flight at https://www.southwest.com.

WN does not have enough gate space at DAL and some other stations to operate all of the flights that are currently showing up in the flight schedules at https://www.southwest.com/air/flight-schedules/index.html?clk=GSUBNAV-AIR-SCHEDULES.


Its so glaringly obvious that its a glitch I am not even sure why someone would not only post about it, but write 3 lengthy replies. Looks to me like 2 different versions of the schedule are searchable but only 1 is bookable.


They daily tab looks to be adding in a bunch of the any day of the week flights. If you look at a Monday only, it also list some of the Sunday and Saturday nonstop times. If you click weekly they are broken out correctly.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26526
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:09 pm

freakyrat wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
As for closing stations... When MIA and PSP were announced he stated in bold that there are currently no plans to close any stations. Can never say never but yeah. As long as this pandemic is dragging on a lot of markets are still suppressed by temporary restrictions. Hang on to what you can, let things open up and see how it plays out in a recovery phase before completely bailing, IMO.


I must have missed this, but WN to PSP and MIA? PSP isn't a bad addition to the WN network considering their overall strength in California, relative to most markets, but MIA? Either WN is not as high on FLL as they once were or there's something else that I'm missing. (And, yes, I know this is probably more relevant to the WN Network thread, but I'm too tired to search for it at the moment.)


Southwest flies jets into MIA for Conract Heavy maintenance.


That’s not why Southwest is starting flights to Miami.
a.
 
ibthebigd
Posts: 420
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:12 pm

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:38 pm

I'm surprised CVG has carried so many passengers.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
737max8
Posts: 706
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:38 am

MAH4546 wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:

I must have missed this, but WN to PSP and MIA? PSP isn't a bad addition to the WN network considering their overall strength in California, relative to most markets, but MIA? Either WN is not as high on FLL as they once were or there's something else that I'm missing. (And, yes, I know this is probably more relevant to the WN Network thread, but I'm too tired to search for it at the moment.)


Southwest flies jets into MIA for Conract Heavy maintenance.


That’s not why Southwest is starting flights to Miami.


No, but it's an added benefit. Now they don't have to ferry in planes and crews at a cost, they can come in and leave on revenue generating flights.

Terminating flight -> Hangar

Plane out of the hangar -> Originating flight the next morning
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
Flown on: 717 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 7M8 744 744ER 752 753 762 763 772 773ER 788 789 A220 A319/20/21 A332 A333 A339 A343 A346 A359 A388
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4015
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:43 am

November schedule has been updated (pre holiday travel)

STL has CUN back on the schedule so I am guessing some others might have it back also.
 
ibthebigd
Posts: 420
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:12 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:11 am

I wonder when Southwest will trim the Holiday schedule?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
swacle
Posts: 540
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:41 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:25 pm

ibthebigd wrote:
I wonder when Southwest will trim the Holiday schedule?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Looks like the schedule is trimmed through early January.
Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5979
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:51 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
November schedule has been updated (pre holiday travel)

STL has CUN back on the schedule so I am guessing some others might have it back also.


They've starting moving more towards an allegiant model, where they significantly draw down the schedule on Tue/Wed
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
freakyrat
Posts: 2214
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:13 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:

I must have missed this, but WN to PSP and MIA? PSP isn't a bad addition to the WN network considering their overall strength in California, relative to most markets, but MIA? Either WN is not as high on FLL as they once were or there's something else that I'm missing. (And, yes, I know this is probably more relevant to the WN Network thread, but I'm too tired to search for it at the moment.)


Southwest flies jets into MIA for Conract Heavy maintenance.


That’s not why Southwest is starting flights to Miami.


I'm sure it will help WN when Cruises resume again.
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3516
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:47 pm

737max8 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
freakyrat wrote:

Southwest flies jets into MIA for Conract Heavy maintenance.


That’s not why Southwest is starting flights to Miami.


No, but it's an added benefit. Now they don't have to ferry in planes and crews at a cost, they can come in and leave on revenue generating flights.

Terminating flight -> Hangar

Plane out of the hangar -> Originating flight the next morning

It’s such an overstated thing though. It’s an afterthought if anything. They don’t have so many aircraft going into heavy maintenance on any given day that it’s a huge money saver.

Unless they are literally putting an aircraft into a check everyday and taking one out everyday you aren’t gaining anything. And what do you do if they find something that causes the check to go long? It ruins the schedule for the day it was due unless you have a spare available. Then you lose your cost savings by ferrying an aircraft in to cover for the one still in check.

MIA service is all about serving MIA.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
mcdu
Posts: 1662
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:11 pm

737max8 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
freakyrat wrote:

Southwest flies jets into MIA for Conract Heavy maintenance.


That’s not why Southwest is starting flights to Miami.


No, but it's an added benefit. Now they don't have to ferry in planes and crews at a cost, they can come in and leave on revenue generating flights.

Terminating flight -> Hangar

Plane out of the hangar -> Originating flight the next morning


Maybe these new Miami flights will have tags to HAV to prevent abusive schedules. Just can’t imagine the west coast crews flying east for a 3 hour time change and then flying back to the west coast the next day. <tic>. That seems to be the rationale for tags from other WN cities so it should also work for MIA if we are to believe that is true for the others.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1662
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:15 pm

737max8 wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:

I’m confused by your use of this. You know my comment about brand loyalty was referring to the idea that’s perpetuated around here that people in Hawaii won’t support outside companies right? That point is overblown on this website.
.


You mentioned “overstated brand loyalty “ and it is obvious the same can be said about WN on this website. In the case of Hawaii those in my neighborhood and friends are circling the wagons around local establishments as a result pandemic.

Guess we will know SWA’s plan in the near future.


Good thing there are a lot more people in the world than your friends. And those people will fly Southwest with their low fares, friendly service, and FREE bags.


But how many people live in Hawaii? Tourist do a smattering of inter island flying. SW needs the local traffic and there is a push to buy local right now.

Again we will see. A carry on will often suffice for island travelers. Free surfboards and you might get some takers.
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4747
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:23 pm

mcdu wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Unlike those with “overstated brand loyalty”


I’m confused by your use of this. You know my comment about brand loyalty was referring to the idea that’s perpetuated around here that people in Hawaii won’t support outside companies right? That point is overblown on this website.
.


You mentioned “overstated brand loyalty “ and it is obvious the same can be said about WN on this website. In the case of Hawaii those in my neighborhood and friends are circling the wagons around local establishments as a result pandemic.

Guess we will know SWA’s plan in the near future.


What do you want me to say? WN’s brand loyalty is overstated here? Fine. Sure. What does that have to do with you repeating something about Hawaii that isn’t as true as you’re making it sound?

mcdu wrote:
737max8 wrote:
mcdu wrote:

You mentioned “overstated brand loyalty “ and it is obvious the same can be said about WN on this website. In the case of Hawaii those in my neighborhood and friends are circling the wagons around local establishments as a result pandemic.

Guess we will know SWA’s plan in the near future.


Good thing there are a lot more people in the world than your friends. And those people will fly Southwest with their low fares, friendly service, and FREE bags.


But how many people live in Hawaii? Tourist do a smattering of inter island flying. SW needs the local traffic and there is a push to buy local right now.

Again we will see. A carry on will often suffice for island travelers. Free surfboards and you might get some takers.


Southwest, like Hawaiian, needs traffic period which isn’t there right now. Mainland tourists will return starting October 15 with the pre-travel testing program and it looks like a similar program will start for interisland as well. Once traffic is allowed to flow again, it will.

WN hasn’t abandoned mainland flying. All 4 cities, including SAN which hasn’t even started yet, have been bookable this whole time. Resumption/start of that service has been delayed multiple times with each extension of the travel quarantine.

There’s a push to support and save local mom-and-pop businesses that are suffering right now but it’s the Costcos, Home Depots, Targets and Walmarts etc. that have been leaned on most during this.

Interisland travelers care about price.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7298
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: WN could cut service to some cities without additional COVID-19 aid

Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:47 pm

mcdu wrote:
A carry on will often suffice for island travelers. Free surfboards and you might get some takers.


And... straight from Southwest's baggage policies:

Surfboard when traveling on flights between the islands of Hawaii can be substituted for one checked bag. Keels and fins must be removed and placed in carryon or checked baggage. If the surfboard exceeds 50 pounds in weight, the surfboard will be accepted for an overweight baggage fee of $75 per item each way. Length and width restrictions do not apply. May be subject to a limited release of liability as outlined in the Contract of Carriage – Passenger.


mcdu wrote:
Just can’t imagine the west coast crews flying east for a 3 hour time change and then flying back to the west coast the next day. <tic>. That seems to be the rationale for tags from other WN cities so it should also work for MIA if we are to believe that is true for the others.


WN doesn't really play in the transcon space. They have/had a few to BWI/ATL/SAN but it's not their bread-and-butter. Hawaii is going to be a long flight just because there's nothing in between California and Hawaii. But they have a lot of customers in California, and Californians love Hawaii.

To MIA, WN is going to go after the same sort of markets they serve at FLL -- mostly cities in the Midwest and Northeast, with possibly the addition of larger Sun Belt cities like ATL, HOU, and DAL. They're not going to the west coast from MIA.

ibthebigd wrote:
I'm surprised CVG has carried so many passengers.


I'm not with Delta's cuts there.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Brianpr3, ClipperYankee, dc10bhx, eidvm, Google [Bot], Kent350787, m66, Momo1435, MrBren, musapapaya, Nick71747, RebelDJ, Rudenko, santos, sekant, SirMS, tvh, Wingtips56 and 241 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos