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BA744PHX
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:29 pm

This makes a lot of sense for TPA-MIA and PHX-PSP both have decent O&D between them, plus WN will route the remaining network via PHX/TPA due to proximity,

It's more of a risk/gamble with 3-4 daily flights from DEN-PSP or BNA-MIA due to distance (yes I know BNA-MIA was not announced)
 
ericm2031
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:31 pm

RJNUT wrote:
my Luv voucher expires NOV 14th and they already extended it once. I guess I'll have to fly to ONT to get to PSP in early NOV (or just wait and buy outright and fly right into PSP)


I thought vouchers usually require you to use them by a certain date but the actual travel date can be after the expiration?
 
Cubsrule
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:33 pm

tphuang wrote:
ScottB wrote:
tphuang wrote:
For MIA, I'm surprised they are adding TPA and not adding BNA. I'm also surprised they are adding 4x HOU, but nothing from DAL. Interesting choices.


Not really surprising at all. TPA is a big station for WN and it offers a somewhat more relevant set of connecting markets -- it unlike BNA has non-stops to PVD, MHT, BDL, ALB, ROC, BUF, ISP, GRR, and MEM, while BNA has BOS and a large number of West Coast markets. DFW-MIA is hub-to-hub for AA and still has more capacity on AA than we're seeing split between AA, UA, and F9 on IAH-MIA.

I'm more surprised by 3x PHX-PSP. Yes, lots of connections are available at PHX but the same is true for DEN which will only be 1x daily. Maybe they think they can push out AA? It's not a large O&D market.


I see BNA as WN's best bet at creating a major southeast hub. Especially now that WN is moving toward more of a hub/spoke model. It would've made a lot of sense for WN to add BNA-MIA if it has that intention for BNA. They don't seem to have the same priority for BNA that they had prior to the pandemic. That's just my read on the situation.


I'm not sure that the lack of BNA-MIA says much about WN's plans or lack thereof for BNA. BNA is a relatively smaller market to South Florida (and probably especially to non-FLL South Florida), and it is not optimizied to offer connections to the east coast, which is where MIA sees a disproportionate share of its demand. It's a similar dynamic to PBI, which has not traditionally had BNA service despite a long history for WN.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Jshank83
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:33 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
RJNUT wrote:
my Luv voucher expires NOV 14th and they already extended it once. I guess I'll have to fly to ONT to get to PSP in early NOV (or just wait and buy outright and fly right into PSP)


I thought vouchers usually require you to use them by a certain date but the actual travel date can be after the expiration?


All mine got pushed out to 2022. I thought they all were.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: WW starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:39 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
If WN thought they could get BOS travelers to drive to MHT or PVD they can certainly argue that FLL is an alternative to MIA. There are DEN-FLL non-stops.

They're going to be carrying a lot of 'free' bags to/from MTJ, both ski/snowboard equipment and the detritus that families carry on longer trips. It will be interesting to hear if flights go out load-constrained.

10,000 feet of runway and light fuel to Denver. Only on the hottest days will you likely see weight restrictions, they should soar out of there most of the time, even full. Only problem might be weather days with special minimums applied, but that isn’t weight. I’d bet there is a financial incentive behind this, as well.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:43 pm

tphuang wrote:
ScottB wrote:
tphuang wrote:
For MIA, I'm surprised they are adding TPA and not adding BNA. I'm also surprised they are adding 4x HOU, but nothing from DAL. Interesting choices.


Not really surprising at all. TPA is a big station for WN and it offers a somewhat more relevant set of connecting markets -- it unlike BNA has non-stops to PVD, MHT, BDL, ALB, ROC, BUF, ISP, GRR, and MEM, while BNA has BOS and a large number of West Coast markets. DFW-MIA is hub-to-hub for AA and still has more capacity on AA than we're seeing split between AA, UA, and F9 on IAH-MIA.

I'm more surprised by 3x PHX-PSP. Yes, lots of connections are available at PHX but the same is true for DEN which will only be 1x daily. Maybe they think they can push out AA? It's not a large O&D market.


I see BNA as WN's best bet at creating a major southeast hub. Especially now that WN is moving toward more of a hub/spoke model. It would've made a lot of sense for WN to add BNA-MIA if it has that intention for BNA. They don't seem to have the same priority for BNA that they had prior to the pandemic. That's just my read on the situation.

As for TPA, they already do 4x from FLL. It seems strange for me to do 7x split between FLL & MIA. Their FLL-TPA flight depends quite a bit on connection. They face a lot of competition on MIA-TPA from AA (and possibly DL). If they were going for the connection traffic via TPA, why don't they try ATL/BNA/MCO instead?

BNA is the fastest growing area in the country, even despite Covid. Southwest is well positioned there for the future.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:47 pm

tphuang wrote:

As for TPA, they already do 4x from FLL. It seems strange for me to do 7x split between FLL & MIA. Their FLL-TPA flight depends quite a bit on connection. They face a lot of competition on MIA-TPA from AA (and possibly DL). If they were going for the connection traffic via TPA, why don't they try ATL/BNA/MCO instead?


This is only the first round. BNA is a bit of a construction zone right now but I imagine we'll see BNA-MIA in due time. STL and ATL as well.
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
Brickell305
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:52 pm

Flflyer83 wrote:
WN starting service to MTJ effective 12/19/2020. Departure for WN as they usually launch routes on sundays.

This is in addition to PSP and MIA staring 11/15/2020.

I received an email stating starting dates as such.

MIA service
BWI 4x daily
HOU 4x daily
MDW 1x daily
TPA 3x daily

The 4x to BWI and HOU is quite a bit of capacity to start, especially in this environment. Does the TPA service continue direct to other destinations?
 
DLASFlyer
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:54 pm

joeblow10 wrote:

Have to imagine JAC, BZN, maybe even EGE are coming shortly in terms of adds from DEN - then again, I would’ve put those far ahead of MTJ.


Delta recently pulled out of both MTJ and HDN so WN may have seen more opportunity there. Delta and the other big guys are all still at JAC, BZN and EGE.
Last edited by DLASFlyer on Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
jplatts
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:03 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
tphuang wrote:

As for TPA, they already do 4x from FLL. It seems strange for me to do 7x split between FLL & MIA. Their FLL-TPA flight depends quite a bit on connection. They face a lot of competition on MIA-TPA from AA (and possibly DL). If they were going for the connection traffic via TPA, why don't they try ATL/BNA/MCO instead?


This is only the first round. BNA is a bit of a construction zone right now but I imagine we'll see BNA-MIA in due time. STL and ATL as well.


I agree that WN adding MIA-ATL nonstop service is a possibility with FL having previously served MIA nonstop from ATL and with WN still expanding at ATL.
 
SWADawg
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:19 pm

Both MEX and FNT now showing on the Route Map on Southwest.com. That has to be a mistake, I would be shocked if they added those markets back again after exiting them. Anyone see anything in the booking portal to those destinations?
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:22 pm

jplatts wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
tphuang wrote:

As for TPA, they already do 4x from FLL. It seems strange for me to do 7x split between FLL & MIA. Their FLL-TPA flight depends quite a bit on connection. They face a lot of competition on MIA-TPA from AA (and possibly DL). If they were going for the connection traffic via TPA, why don't they try ATL/BNA/MCO instead?


This is only the first round. BNA is a bit of a construction zone right now but I imagine we'll see BNA-MIA in due time. STL and ATL as well.


I agree that WN adding MIA-ATL nonstop service is a possibility with FL having previously served MIA nonstop from ATL and with WN still expanding at ATL.


By the time WN bought FL, ATL-MIA was gone. Only BWI-MIA remained. I know multiple people who wanted to keep using FL to/from ATL that drove to FLL.

This having been said, DL has more flights on FLL-ATL than MIA-ATL and generally uses bigger frames, so the opportunity may be there. But AA is always in the way.

NK also generally performs well on FLL-ATL, not sure about B6.
 
jplatts
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:28 pm

SWADawg wrote:
Both MEX and FNT now showing on the Route Map on Southwest.com. That has to be a mistake, I would be shocked if they added those markets back again after exiting them. Anyone see anything in the booking portal to those destinations?


I do not see any WN service to MEX or FNT in WN's flight schedules, even though both MEX and FNT are now showing back up on the WN route map.
 
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Frontier14
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Re: WW starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:39 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
If WN thought they could get BOS travelers to drive to MHT or PVD they can certainly argue that FLL is an alternative to MIA. There are DEN-FLL non-stops.

They're going to be carrying a lot of 'free' bags to/from MTJ, both ski/snowboard equipment and the detritus that families carry on longer trips. It will be interesting to hear if flights go out load-constrained.


If you are a betting person, your odds of DEN - MIA happening are pretty high I would say.

Montrose is quite the shocker. Looks like WN is having to pull out all the stops to make it through this dismal winter flying season. I would suspect that some of the DEN locals will make good use of this new alternative too>

Frontier 14
 
lx2iah
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:12 pm

Southwest announces its new routes from Miami:

Southwest Airlines has announced today that it will launch first-ever daily flights at Miami International Airport to four destinations on November 15: Baltimore/Washington; Chicago (Midway Airport); Houston (Hobby Airport); and Tampa.

The combined total of 12 daily round-trip flights will make Southwest one of the busiest passenger airlines currently operating at MIA.

Southwest’s flights to Baltimore four times daily and Tampa three times daily will significantly increase MIA’s existing service to those cities, while its four daily flights to Houston Hobby and daily flight to Chicago Midway will provide new service from MIA to those airports.

Source: www.worldairlinenews.com
 
n562wn
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Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:38 pm

No announcement yet but (Montrose/Telluride) MTJ-DEN x 3 Daily and weekend DAL- MTJ now bookable starting 19 Dec
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
a320flyer
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:57 pm

WN is adding daily CVG-MCO/TPA/PHX, previously these were served weekend-only seasonally

https://www.fox19.com/2020/10/07/southw ... on-direct/
 
evank516
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:25 pm

ScottB wrote:
tphuang wrote:
For MIA, I'm surprised they are adding TPA and not adding BNA. I'm also surprised they are adding 4x HOU, but nothing from DAL. Interesting choices.


Not really surprising at all. TPA is a big station for WN and it offers a somewhat more relevant set of connecting markets -- it unlike BNA has non-stops to PVD, MHT, BDL, ALB, ROC, BUF, ISP, GRR, and MEM, while BNA has BOS and a large number of West Coast markets. DFW-MIA is hub-to-hub for AA and still has more capacity on AA than we're seeing split between AA, UA, and F9 on IAH-MIA.

I'm more surprised by 3x PHX-PSP. Yes, lots of connections are available at PHX but the same is true for DEN which will only be 1x daily. Maybe they think they can push out AA? It's not a large O&D market.


With the exception of MEM the rest are covered by BWI and MDW. TPA seems redundant in your example.
 
airzona11
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:44 pm

Would love to get a PHX - MTJ rotation. Surprised to finally see PSP. I wonder the impact on the PHX to ONT.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:46 pm

WN like all airlines is looking to add leisure destinations. WNs free bags I think really has an edge in ski markets. Luggage is a huge issue at those airports. I can see them trying EGE (Vails) next. WN also has the perfect airplane the 737-700 for EGE.
Seasonal never interested WN much but times have changed they need to fly the planes somewhere that use to do business routes. This thing is just taking too long and recovery won't be fast enough to just wait. I expect more WN leisure routes and destinations in addition to all the new ones
 
n562wn
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WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:17 pm

I'm hoping for some Montana routes coming soon. (BZN or MSO for example). Or god forbid, ANC in the spring!
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:31 pm

It seems like we can look forward to lots of exciting news from Southwest Airlines soon (today?). Their route map now shows Miami, Montrose and Palm Springs. However, Flint and Mexico City are back on there too. That must be a mistake as I can't see WN returning to FNT and MEX...can you?!?
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
flyiguy
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:33 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
Flflyer83 wrote:
WN starting service to MTJ effective 12/19/2020. Departure for WN as they usually launch routes on sundays.

This is in addition to PSP and MIA staring 11/15/2020.

I received an email stating starting dates as such.

MIA service
BWI 4x daily
HOU 4x daily
MDW 1x daily
TPA 3x daily

The 4x to BWI and HOU is quite a bit of capacity to start, especially in this environment. Does the TPA service continue direct to other destinations?


From what I can see, the TPA and MDW turns are to and from the same city. The BWI & HOU turns are the only ones that will be a different inbound and outbound city.

FLY
The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
 
joeblow10
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:39 pm

n562wn wrote:
I'm hoping for some Montana routes coming soon. (BZN or MSO for example). Or god forbid, ANC in the spring!


PSP, MIA, HDN, and MTJ are clearly the winter adds - I'm sure they're gearing up for some summer adds in the next schedule release or shortly thereafter given the climate of the industry and the focus on leisure. ANC and BZN are possibilities for sure. JAC and FAT are others, given their presence to national parks.
 
ScottB
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:40 pm

evank516 wrote:
With the exception of MEM the rest are covered by BWI and MDW. TPA seems redundant in your example.


Um, sure, but the same could be said of BNA? Is there anything connected to BNA which isn't connected to BWI or MDW?

tphuang wrote:
I see BNA as WN's best bet at creating a major southeast hub. Especially now that WN is moving toward more of a hub/spoke model. It would've made a lot of sense for WN to add BNA-MIA if it has that intention for BNA. They don't seem to have the same priority for BNA that they had prior to the pandemic.


Um, yeah, because there's a pandemic. Much of the playbook is out the window right now because the focus is on surviving rather than long-term strategy. In the past WN would have never put new service on sale five weeks prior to the start of flying, but here we are.

You do realize that TPA is nearly as large a station for WN as BNA, right? There's plenty of time in the future to work on building BNA once the industry starts to become more normal. This is about trying to grab passenger revenue right now in markets which still have some demand. TPA does this better for funneling traffic to MIA than BNA can with the current route structure. TPA-MIA/FLL is also the most robust intrastate travel market in Florida.

tphuang wrote:
They face a lot of competition on MIA-TPA from AA (and possibly DL). If they were going for the connection traffic via TPA, why don't they try ATL/BNA/MCO instead?


WN is the largest carrier at TPA by a fairly wide margin. They'd face the exact same sort of competition on BNA-MIA from AA as they would on TPA-MIA. WN is already the leading carrier between BNA and FLL/MIA so there's greater potential to cannibalize their own business versus TPA-FLL/MIA where AA is the leading carrier. So I'd throw in the dynamic of strengthening their competitive position in the Tampa Bay market -- which is also about 20% larger in real GDP when compared to Nashville.

I think WN will serve BNA-MIA eventually. It's just not in the first round.
 
aviationjunky
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:44 pm

Flflyer83 wrote:
PSP service
DEN 1x daily
OAK 2x daily
PHX 3x daily


I'm rather surprised to not see LAS service.. Maybe their December schedule will add it.
LAS is Life
 
Ishrion
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:49 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
It seems like we can look forward to lots of exciting news from Southwest Airlines soon (today?). Their route map now shows Miami, Montrose and Palm Springs. However, Flint and Mexico City are back on there too. That must be a mistake as I can't see WN returning to FNT and MEX...can you?!?


MEX I can believe, but can Southwest get the slots for it?

The Mexico to U.S. market is doing rather well during these times. For example, both VivaAerobus and Volaris just added MEX-DFW.

There's also Cancun which is growing significantly with additions from several airlines.
 
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stl07
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:49 pm

evank516 wrote:
ScottB wrote:
tphuang wrote:
For MIA, I'm surprised they are adding TPA and not adding BNA. I'm also surprised they are adding 4x HOU, but nothing from DAL. Interesting choices.


Not really surprising at all. TPA is a big station for WN and it offers a somewhat more relevant set of connecting markets -- it unlike BNA has non-stops to PVD, MHT, BDL, ALB, ROC, BUF, ISP, GRR, and MEM, while BNA has BOS and a large number of West Coast markets. DFW-MIA is hub-to-hub for AA and still has more capacity on AA than we're seeing split between AA, UA, and F9 on IAH-MIA.

I'm more surprised by 3x PHX-PSP. Yes, lots of connections are available at PHX but the same is true for DEN which will only be 1x daily. Maybe they think they can push out AA? It's not a large O&D market.


With the exception of MEM the rest are covered by BWI and MDW. TPA seems redundant in your example.

Yea who would choose a connection over a nonstop to FLL or just taking AA to MIA
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
tphuang
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:54 pm

ScottB wrote:
Um, yeah, because there's a pandemic. Much of the playbook is out the window right now because the focus is on surviving rather than long-term strategy. In the past WN would have never put new service on sale five weeks prior to the start of flying, but here we are.

You do realize that TPA is nearly as large a station for WN as BNA, right? There's plenty of time in the future to work on building BNA once the industry starts to become more normal. This is about trying to grab passenger revenue right now in markets which still have some demand. TPA does this better for funneling traffic to MIA than BNA can with the current route structure. TPA-MIA/FLL is also the most robust intrastate travel market in Florida.


Well, AA is down to 4 flights on TPA-MIA for Nov, which is half what it scheduled before. Both NK/WN are down to about half the number of flights on FLL-TPA that it previously scheduled. So I don't see how this is a short term pandemic based strategy. If this is about connection traffic, then MCO would be a better choice than TPA.
 
FlyHossD
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:58 pm

DLASFlyer wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:

Have to imagine JAC, BZN, maybe even EGE are coming shortly in terms of adds from DEN - then again, I would’ve put those far ahead of MTJ.


Delta recently pulled out of both MTJ and HDN so WN may have seen more opportunity there. Delta and the other big guys are all still at JAC, BZN and EGE.


Surprised the DL has ended those stations. DL at MTJ reminds me of the only time I had a center controller intervene before a conflict became a TCAS TA or RA. We had just been cleared for the approach to GUC and had joined the DME arc; seconds later, the controller cancelled our clearance, directed us to fly present heading and climb to FL180. He then started calling a DL flight and moments later, they appeared on our MAP display (TCAS) about they same time they called center on the frequency. The DEN Center controller was furious as they had been issued their clearance at MTJ, but also given "Hold For Release" - yet they departed and flew right into the airspace conflicting with our approach. So he had needed to cancel our approach clearance and get us out of the way.

And yes, they got a phone number to call upon landing.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
ScottB
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:07 pm

stl07 wrote:
Yea who would choose a connection over a nonstop to FLL or just taking AA to MIA


A lot of those markets don't have AA non-stops to MIA. So it's a choice between connections at CLT, ATL, BWI, TPA, IAD, etc. Maybe a customer takes a connection to avoid being on an AA flight booked to capacity.
 
SurfandSnow
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Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:09 am

Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:12 pm

DLASFlyer wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:

Have to imagine JAC, BZN, maybe even EGE are coming shortly in terms of adds from DEN - then again, I would’ve put those far ahead of MTJ.


Delta recently pulled out of both MTJ and HDN so WN may have seen more opportunity there. Delta and the other big guys are all still at JAC, BZN and EGE.


I too would have expected WN to try BZN, EGE and JAC before MTJ. However, I completely forgot about DL cutting all service to the smaller ski markets. Perhaps that not only opened up a market opportunity for WN but also prompted both airports to heavily incentivize new WN services?

jplatts wrote:
SWADawg wrote:
Both MEX and FNT now showing on the Route Map on Southwest.com. That has to be a mistake, I would be shocked if they added those markets back again after exiting them. Anyone see anything in the booking portal to those destinations?


I do not see any WN service to MEX or FNT in WN's flight schedules, even though both MEX and FNT are now showing back up on the WN route map.


I wondered exactly the same. FNT and MEX both seemed to be disastrous stations for WN - and that was before the pandemic. I certainly can't imagine either one let alone both suddenly being a good opportunity for WN now...

joeblow10 wrote:
n562wn wrote:
I'm hoping for some Montana routes coming soon. (BZN or MSO for example). Or god forbid, ANC in the spring!


PSP, MIA, HDN, and MTJ are clearly the winter adds - I'm sure they're gearing up for some summer adds in the next schedule release or shortly thereafter given the climate of the industry and the focus on leisure. ANC and BZN are possibilities for sure. JAC and FAT are others, given their presence to national parks.


Now that PSP has been added, isn't FAT now the busiest airport in California that WN does not serve? IIRC when WN added service to LGB they said something like "this is the biggest Californian airport missing from our route map, and we all know California is a very important market for us". Then, a few years later when PSP was announced, I believe they may have said the same thing...

BZN and JAC seem perfectly logical given their proximity to DEN. ANC might be more challenging given WN's relatively weak position in the Pacific Northwest; then again, that issue certainly didn't stop B6 from flying there. DEN, OAK, and perhaps even PHX and/or LAS might function as excellent WN gateways to Alaska after all.
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jco613
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:14 pm

stl07 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
ScottB wrote:

Not really surprising at all. TPA is a big station for WN and it offers a somewhat more relevant set of connecting markets -- it unlike BNA has non-stops to PVD, MHT, BDL, ALB, ROC, BUF, ISP, GRR, and MEM, while BNA has BOS and a large number of West Coast markets. DFW-MIA is hub-to-hub for AA and still has more capacity on AA than we're seeing split between AA, UA, and F9 on IAH-MIA.

I'm more surprised by 3x PHX-PSP. Yes, lots of connections are available at PHX but the same is true for DEN which will only be 1x daily. Maybe they think they can push out AA? It's not a large O&D market.


With the exception of MEM the rest are covered by BWI and MDW. TPA seems redundant in your example.

Yea who would choose a connection over a nonstop to FLL or just taking AA to MIA

I think you will see a few people who do not know where FLL is taking the layover to go to MIAMI. The name recognition alone will work there. (I remember a time I was on TPA-FLL and some Spring Breaker said "We're almost in Florida!", so some people just don't understand.)

Another factor might be aircraft rotation. As mentioned, MDW and TPA are the flights that turn right back around. We mentioned a few times in previous threads that MIA is a MX center for WN, so I could see part of this being just rotating those aircraft. With both cities being some of the major bases for WN (TPA is a bigger BASE than MCO, not a bigger STATION), I could see this as a factor.

According to their website, WN has H11 and H15 (There is no H13), so two gates for now. Would not be shocked to see DEN and DAL on the next extension with MCO and ATL as a wild card. MIA will be more than just a seasonal station. BNA I don't think is in the cards yet.
 
737max8
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:20 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
n562wn wrote:
I'm hoping for some Montana routes coming soon. (BZN or MSO for example). Or god forbid, ANC in the spring!


PSP, MIA, HDN, and MTJ are clearly the winter adds - I'm sure they're gearing up for some summer adds in the next schedule release or shortly thereafter given the climate of the industry and the focus on leisure. ANC and BZN are possibilities for sure. JAC and FAT are others, given their presence to national parks.


Give me ANC, FCA, JAC, and FAT and i'll be happy forever. Oh maybe GJT also
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alfa164
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:38 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
Have to imagine JAC, BZN, maybe even EGE are coming shortly in terms of adds from DEN - then again, I would’ve put those far ahead of MTJ.



Telluride and Montrose have offered subsidies in the past; that could be happening again here.
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FATFlyer
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:59 pm

Flflyer83 wrote:
PSP service
DEN 1x daily
OAK 2x daily
PHX 3x daily

MTJ service
DEN 2-3x daily
DAL 3/weekly

joeblow10 wrote:
PSP, MIA, HDN, and MTJ are clearly the winter adds - I'm sure they're gearing up for some summer adds in the next schedule release or shortly thereafter given the climate of the industry and the focus on leisure. ANC and BZN are possibilities for sure. JAC and FAT are others, given their presence to national parks.


The smaller number of daily flights at these new adds changes what would have been considered likely new WN cities even just last year.

FAT would make for a good add. The local O&D market has been seeing a quicker recovery than many other California airports.

Joining with the local visitor agencies promoting the 3 national parks (Majestic Mountain Loop promotion) in the FAT service area would add to the local O&D.
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flyfresno
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:18 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
Flflyer83 wrote:
PSP service
DEN 1x daily
OAK 2x daily
PHX 3x daily

MTJ service
DEN 2-3x daily
DAL 3/weekly

joeblow10 wrote:
PSP, MIA, HDN, and MTJ are clearly the winter adds - I'm sure they're gearing up for some summer adds in the next schedule release or shortly thereafter given the climate of the industry and the focus on leisure. ANC and BZN are possibilities for sure. JAC and FAT are others, given their presence to national parks.


The smaller number of daily flights at these new adds changes what would have been considered likely new WN cities even just last year.

FAT would make for a good add. The local O&D market has been seeing a quicker recovery than many other California airports.

Joining with the local visitor agencies promoting the 3 national parks (Majestic Mountain Loop promotion) in the FAT service area would add to the local O&D.
http://www.majesticmountainloop.com/


I wish someone could just explain to the planners at WN how underserved FAT-LAS is. Along with their connections, I think they could do really, really well on that route with multiple flights. I would expect a PHX and DEN too, possibly a SAN. Sigh...
 
n562wn
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:23 pm

flyfresno wrote:
I wish someone could just explain to the planners at WN how underserved FAT-LAS is. Along with their connections, I think they could do really, really well on that route with multiple flights. I would expect a PHX and DEN too, possibly a SAN. Sigh...


I agree completely. FAT is the biggest gaping hole in WN's California network. I'd advertise it as the gateway to Yosemite.
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jplatts
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:32 pm

WN has announced plans to serve MTJ nonstop from DAL on a weekend-only basis, which is being discussed at https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1452641.

There is also enough room at DAL for WN to make additional adds such as the return of DAL-BOI/BOS/DTW/CLE/HRL/PHL/PDX/SEA nonstop service and the addition of DAL-BUF/CVG/BDL/LGB/MIA/ORF nonstop service with the cuts that WN has made at DAL since January 2020 (including the discontinuation of DAL-OKC/SFO nonstop service, frequency reductions on DAL-HOU/LIT/MEM/LGA/TUL nonstop service through the end of the current flight schedule, and suspensions of other nonstop routes out of DAL during the COVID-19 pandemic) and with WN expected to make some additional cuts at DAL.

Will WN take advantage of the extra capacity that is available at DAL with the cuts that had been made at DAL in the last 10 months and with WN expected to make additional cuts at DAL to add additional nonstop routes out of DAL (apart from already-announced weekend-only DAL-HDN/MTJ nonstop service)?
 
ScottB
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:33 pm

flyfresno wrote:
I wish someone could just explain to the planners at WN how underserved FAT-LAS is. Along with their connections, I think they could do really, really well on that route with multiple flights. I would expect a PHX and DEN too, possibly a SAN. Sigh...


Is it, though? Even with significant low-fare stimulation from G4 pre-Covid, traffic was just a bit over 100 PDEW. That's enough demand for one mainline round-trip.

FATFlyer wrote:
The smaller number of daily flights at these new adds changes what would have been considered likely new WN cities even just last year.

FAT would make for a good add. The local O&D market has been seeing a quicker recovery than many other California airports.


The challenge for FAT has always been competition with SR-99/I-5. The two obvious big markets are close enough that flying doesn't save a lot of time over driving. SAN is far enough that it makes sense to fly but it's basically a large enough market for one daily 737 or two E175s.

Maybe they could do something like 2x DEN, 2x PHX, 2x SAN, and 1x LAS and just hope to make it work with connections? They'd still have to deal with competitors in all those markets and I don't think they can stimulate enough traffic to fill the planes unless competitors exit.
 
FATFlyer
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:39 pm

n562wn wrote:
I agree completely. FAT is the biggest gaping hole in WN's California network. I'd advertise it as the gateway to Yosemite.


That is what both Alaska and Allegiant already do. Both have a Yosemite destination option in their web site booking choices separate from the Fresno option.

If you search for Yosemite at United.com, it gives MMH as the booking option. AA and DL have no option if you search for flights to Yosemite.
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flyfresno
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:06 pm

ScottB wrote:
Is it, though? Even with significant low-fare stimulation from G4 pre-Covid, traffic was just a bit over 100 PDEW. That's enough demand for one mainline round-trip.


Granted, it's extrapolating, but at one point, there were three airlines on the route...3-4 UA EM2s, one HP 319 and one CR9, and AY's MD88. At one point, LAS was actually the top destination from Fresno...in 2007, despite FAT having about 2/3 of the total passengers it did in 2019, FAT-LAS had 107,000 pax. That's almost 300 PDEW. The PDEW is so low today because people are fed up with Allegiant, not because they won't travel. Take 300 in 2007 and translate that to 2019, the potential is around 400, maybe more.
 
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FLIHGH
Posts: 260
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:18 am

Dulles announced on their Facebook and Instagram pages that Southwest is starting IAD-MCO/MDW as well. MDW is a resumption of service; MCO may be as well.
 
FATFlyer
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:23 am

ScottB wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
The smaller number of daily flights at these new adds changes what would have been considered likely new WN cities even just last year.

FAT would make for a good add. The local O&D market has been seeing a quicker recovery than many other California airports.


The challenge for FAT has always been competition with SR-99/I-5. The two obvious big markets are close enough that flying doesn't save a lot of time over driving. SAN is far enough that it makes sense to fly but it's basically a large enough market for one daily 737 or two E175s.

Maybe they could do something like 2x DEN, 2x PHX, 2x SAN, and 1x LAS and just hope to make it work with connections? They'd still have to deal with competitors in all those markets and I don't think they can stimulate enough traffic to fill the planes unless competitors exit.


SFO and LAX really have never been big O&D markets from Fresno on their own. Mainly connections since they have been the closest hubs but you are right, as markets they are too drivable.

FAT-SAN is larger than what you mention. AS was at 3 or 4 E175s. As mentioned already, FAT-LAS was larger just a few years ago. Allegiant's lack of reliability has pushed more people back to the 6 or 7 hour drive simply because they did not want to deal with it.

Some of these new markets we are seeing WN open are not about O&D but rather the connections. And also the new cities appear to be coming in now at fewer than 7 or 8 flights per day to start.

The old way of looking at WN adds may be gone for the next year or two.
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doulasc
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:43 am

why no Southwest Airlines to Tallahassee.
 
n562wn
Posts: 99
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:49 am

doulasc wrote:
why no Southwest Airlines to Tallahassee.

Perhaps because ECP is fairly close. However TLH does seem like a reasonable add being that it's the state capital and all. Not to mention that FSU is co-located.
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klm617
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:06 am

Ishrion wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
It seems like we can look forward to lots of exciting news from Southwest Airlines soon (today?). Their route map now shows Miami, Montrose and Palm Springs. However, Flint and Mexico City are back on there too. That must be a mistake as I can't see WN returning to FNT and MEX...can you?!?


MEX I can believe, but can Southwest get the slots for it?

The Mexico to U.S. market is doing rather well during these times. For example, both VivaAerobus and Volaris just added MEX-DFW.

There's also Cancun which is growing significantly with additions from several airlines.


I can believe Flint as well as there is a lot of Florida traffic that originates from there and now the Delta has left Flint there is a possibility to offer nonstops from there as they did before.
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737max8
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:41 am

FLIHGH wrote:
Dulles announced on their Facebook and Instagram pages that Southwest is starting IAD-MCO/MDW as well. MDW is a resumption of service; MCO may be as well.


it is
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uconn99
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:06 am

ScottB wrote:
tphuang wrote:
For MIA, I'm surprised they are adding TPA and not adding BNA. I'm also surprised they are adding 4x HOU, but nothing from DAL. Interesting choices.


Not really surprising at all. TPA is a big station for WN and it offers a somewhat more relevant set of connecting markets -- it unlike BNA has non-stops to PVD, MHT, BDL, ALB, ROC, BUF, ISP, GRR, and MEM, while BNA has BOS and a large number of West Coast markets. DFW-MIA is hub-to-hub for AA and still has more capacity on AA than we're seeing split between AA, UA, and F9 on IAH-MIA.

I'm more surprised by 3x PHX-PSP. Yes, lots of connections are available at PHX but the same is true for DEN which will only be 1x daily. Maybe they think they can push out AA? It's not a large O&D market.


BNA-BDL begins in March.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: WN starting service to MTJ (Montrose/Telluride, CO) eff. 12/19/2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:07 am

FATFlyer wrote:
new cities appear to be coming in now at fewer than 7 or 8 flights per day to start.

The old way of looking at WN adds may be gone for the next year or two.


The old way of looking at WN adds is probably gone for good. Aside from MIA, CVG was probably the last market ever to be added by WN in that fashion. Anything left in the continental U.S. realm (GSO being by far the largest market in terms of population) probably can't support more than a handful of daily flights, even in season. If WN ever did add GSO, it would probably look a lot like GSP.

Further afield, be it Alaska or abroad, I can't see anything starting out at 7-8 flights either. Even something like ANC, YVR or YYZ would probably only start with a few daily flights. Anything beyond that would just be too risky.
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