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BMWdrvr75
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:34 pm

sprxUSA wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
SWADawg wrote:
Where’s the flight schedule out of IAH? They announced ORD and IAH on the same day, it would make sense for them to put the IAH schedule out with this announcement I would think. I wonder if they are not planning on starting service out of IAH on the same day as ORD.


It looks like COS/ORD were added to the route map, but not the rest.
https://www.southwest.com/flight/routem ... R-ROUTEMAP

I'm assuming IAH isn't far behind


I see they are a little liberal in a couple of dot locations (GRR, ECP).
Does seem like a lot of flights from the get-go, but by then who knows what the schedules may be cut to the way things are going....



Maybe they should add BUR or LAX/ SAN to PSP....I have seen people pay $150.00 plus to Uber one way!
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jetmatt777
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Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:15 pm

13 flights at COS? That's quite a bit of capacity.
 
atrude777
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Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:19 pm

Exciting news for Southwest and COS! Half surprised with COS-DEN, but with United flying it, why not. Pick up any local traffic that you can. Also may be a way to help save gate space, by flying a RON Aircraft to COS and sitting there instead of taking up a gate in DEN.

The scheduled outbound DEN-COS matches this, a 10:30pm RON from Denver.

I am wondering if Southwest is using Gate 1, this is a former Alaska Gate in COS that shouldn't be in use.

UA uses 3,5,7 and 9
F9 used 11 and 12
AA uses 10 and 8
DL uses 6 and 4

I suppose Gate 2 could also be used? Not sure if it's out of commission or being used.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
jplatts
Posts: 4533
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Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:30 pm

atrude777 wrote:
Exciting news for Southwest and COS! Half surprised with COS-DEN, but with United flying it, why not. Pick up any local traffic that you can. Also may be a way to help save gate space, by flying a RON Aircraft to COS and sitting there instead of taking up a gate in DEN.

The scheduled outbound DEN-COS matches this, a 10:30pm RON from Denver.


In response to WN's COS-DEN add, I brought up the discussion of whether WN is likely to add more shorter nonstop routes such as MDW-MKE, BWI-PHL/RIC, and PHX-TUS at https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1453507 as adds such as MDW-MKE, BWI-PHL/RIC, and PHX-TUS would serve a similar role to that of COS-DEN, which is connectivity to more of WN's network.

While WN would have never added routes shorter than MDW-GRR such as MDW-MKE, BWI-PHL/RIC, or PHX-TUS in the past, WN adding more shorter routes from hubs such as MDW-MKE, BWI-PHL/RIC, or PHX-TUS is more likely than was the case in the past with WN adding COS-DEN nonstop service.
 
pmanni1
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:39 pm

ArcticSEA wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
Surprised about DEN-COS. That's 70 miles!

Why are you surprised? United flies it with the A320.
Nice to see the aggressive schedule. WN out for blood.

By the time you arrive at COS 60-90 minutes before departure you could've already driven to DEN.
 
WN732
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:03 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
Surprised about DEN-COS. That's 70 miles!

Why are you surprised? United flies it with the A320.
Nice to see the aggressive schedule. WN out for blood.

By the time you arrive at COS 60-90 minutes before departure you could've already driven to DEN.


Not in the winter time.
 
DEN1895
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:20 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
WOW WN is grasping at straws. 4 DEN-COS. Way to take a page out of Western Pacific END game play book.
Heck Why do 6 ORD-DEN when you can do 6 ORD-MDW instead. Hahahahaha
SCARY times.

Flyguy


Pre-Covid UA flew 10 times a day between COS and DEN with a mix of CRJs and A319's, occasionally I would see them up gage to a 739. I think it will be interesting to see how the Midway frequencies are affected as there are currently 8 a day scheduled during the week that O'Hare starts.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:45 pm

jplatts wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
COS-DEN seems odd to me considering its stage length and WN's recent aversion to shorter flights.

I don't understand what connections DEN provides that MDW/DAL/PHX/LAS/PHX cannot provide.


WN will be offering connections to destinations such as ABQ, DSM, ELP, IND, MCI, MKE, MSP, OKC, OMA, PDX, STL, SLC, SEA, TUL, and ICT from COS through DEN that would require significant backtracking through other cities such as MDW, DAL, LAS, or PHX.

I'm not disagreeing with you.

But will people actually fly COS-DEN-SLC or COS-DEN-SEA for example? The drive isn't that far in the grand scheme of things and fares will undoubtably be lower from DEN where you have a whopping five carriers on DEN-SEA and four on DEN-SLC.
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joeblow10
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Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:01 pm

USAirALB wrote:
jplatts wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
COS-DEN seems odd to me considering its stage length and WN's recent aversion to shorter flights.

I don't understand what connections DEN provides that MDW/DAL/PHX/LAS/PHX cannot provide.


WN will be offering connections to destinations such as ABQ, DSM, ELP, IND, MCI, MKE, MSP, OKC, OMA, PDX, STL, SLC, SEA, TUL, and ICT from COS through DEN that would require significant backtracking through other cities such as MDW, DAL, LAS, or PHX.

I'm not disagreeing with you.

But will people actually fly COS-DEN-SLC or COS-DEN-SEA for example? The drive isn't that far in the grand scheme of things and fares will undoubtably be lower from DEN where you have a whopping five carriers on DEN-SEA and four on DEN-SLC.


I can assure you the answer is yes :D

It’s not that “far” a drive but with the mess I25 has become and how expensive parking at DEN now is, I’d do that any day of the week. Even if the fare is at a bit of a premium. WN recognizes that too

And if I’m connecting - I’d rather connect “early” after a 30 min flight to DEN than connecting in MDW for example. Kind of feels like taking an airport shuttle to me
 
swacle
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:25 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
Surprised about DEN-COS. That's 70 miles!

Why are you surprised? United flies it with the A320.
Nice to see the aggressive schedule. WN out for blood.

By the time you arrive at COS 60-90 minutes before departure you could've already driven to DEN.


I doubt there is a lot of local traffic, but DEN is the best connection point and with I-25 (more) of a cluster than usual for the foreseeable future they are puck up a few o/d pax.
Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
 
wnflyguy
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Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:32 pm

atrude777 wrote:
Exciting news for Southwest and COS! Half surprised with COS-DEN, but with United flying it, why not. Pick up any local traffic that you can. Also may be a way to help save gate space, by flying a RON Aircraft to COS and sitting there instead of taking up a gate in DEN.

The scheduled outbound DEN-COS matches this, a 10:30pm RON from Denver.

I am wondering if Southwest is using Gate 1, this is a former Alaska Gate in COS that shouldn't be in use.

UA uses 3,5,7 and 9
F9 used 11 and 12
AA uses 10 and 8
DL uses 6 and 4

I suppose Gate 2 could also be used? Not sure if it's out of commission or being used.

Alex

From What I heard today WN will be using the 4 gates on the additional concourse that's currently shutdown since 2014. These we're the extra Gates they built to accommodate Western Pacific back in the day.
They will have their own Separate security TSA check point to the WN gates. These 4 gates give WN ample space to accommodate DEN diversions during extreme weather events.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
atrude777
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Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:56 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
atrude777 wrote:
Exciting news for Southwest and COS! Half surprised with COS-DEN, but with United flying it, why not. Pick up any local traffic that you can. Also may be a way to help save gate space, by flying a RON Aircraft to COS and sitting there instead of taking up a gate in DEN.

The scheduled outbound DEN-COS matches this, a 10:30pm RON from Denver.

I am wondering if Southwest is using Gate 1, this is a former Alaska Gate in COS that shouldn't be in use.

UA uses 3,5,7 and 9
F9 used 11 and 12
AA uses 10 and 8
DL uses 6 and 4

I suppose Gate 2 could also be used? Not sure if it's out of commission or being used.

Alex

From What I heard today WN will be using the 4 gates on the additional concourse that's currently shutdown since 2014. These we're the extra Gates they built to accommodate Western Pacific back in the day.
They will have their own Separate security TSA check point to the WN gates. These 4 gates give WN ample space to accommodate DEN diversions during extreme weather events.

Flyguy


No Way?! WN and COS will re-open the West Pac Concourse?!

Oh man....that would be wicked. The jetbridges are still there, but everything would have to be put together again.

I got to check out the West Pac Concourse when I worked at COS, talk about walking back into time...

That would be very neat, and makes sense for accommodating DEN Diversions.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
775899
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Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:32 pm

atrude777 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
atrude777 wrote:
Exciting news for Southwest and COS! Half surprised with COS-DEN, but with United flying it, why not. Pick up any local traffic that you can. Also may be a way to help save gate space, by flying a RON Aircraft to COS and sitting there instead of taking up a gate in DEN.

The scheduled outbound DEN-COS matches this, a 10:30pm RON from Denver.

I am wondering if Southwest is using Gate 1, this is a former Alaska Gate in COS that shouldn't be in use.

UA uses 3,5,7 and 9
F9 used 11 and 12
AA uses 10 and 8
DL uses 6 and 4

I suppose Gate 2 could also be used? Not sure if it's out of commission or being used.

Alex

From What I heard today WN will be using the 4 gates on the additional concourse that's currently shutdown since 2014. These we're the extra Gates they built to accommodate Western Pacific back in the day.
They will have their own Separate security TSA check point to the WN gates. These 4 gates give WN ample space to accommodate DEN diversions during extreme weather events.

Flyguy


No Way?! WN and COS will re-open the West Pac Concourse?!

Oh man....that would be wicked. The jetbridges are still there, but everything would have to be put together again.

I got to check out the West Pac Concourse when I worked at COS, talk about walking back into time...

That would be very neat, and makes sense for accommodating DEN Diversions.

Alex


They’ll probably need significant renovation if they haven’t been seriously used since the days of Western Pacific. Why can’t they be accommodated on the main concourse?
 
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RWA380
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Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:17 am

wnflyguy wrote:
DEN-COS will never happen.
As for JAN and SAV both state senators are actively involved in the PSP act stalled in DC.
WN went to JAN before for political influence.

Flyguy


4 x daily, like I said it would be stupid not to, it's not about local traffic. But I suspect you know this.

ScottB wrote:
SteveXC500 wrote:
COS to LAS/DEN/DAL/PHX/MDW looks like it's available now.


I am curious why no one thought WN would link COS, rather inexpensively, to their largest "hub" city? An airport they just took a bunch of new gates at & stated they were shooting for over 700 flights a day?
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atrude777
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Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:06 am

BNAMealer wrote:
atrude777 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
From What I heard today WN will be using the 4 gates on the additional concourse that's currently shutdown since 2014. These we're the extra Gates they built to accommodate Western Pacific back in the day.
They will have their own Separate security TSA check point to the WN gates. These 4 gates give WN ample space to accommodate DEN diversions during extreme weather events.

Flyguy


No Way?! WN and COS will re-open the West Pac Concourse?!

Oh man....that would be wicked. The jetbridges are still there, but everything would have to be put together again.

I got to check out the West Pac Concourse when I worked at COS, talk about walking back into time...

That would be very neat, and makes sense for accommodating DEN Diversions.

Alex


They’ll probably need significant renovation if they haven’t been seriously used since the days of Western Pacific. Why can’t they be accommodated on the main concourse?


The renovations shouldn't be too much. It wasn't left vacant. When we had International diversions and they timed out, we used the West Pac Concourse to deplane them and quarantine them until Customs could screen them.

TSA uses it as an office out there, and we used to have meetings in the West Pac Side.

It's matter of flipping the lights on and reactivating the gates!

As for why...if the intention is to have gates for diversions, the main terminal can't accommodate that. There's only two vacant gates, the old Alaska Gate (Gate 1) and the former Gate 2 which was used for charters sometimes.

WN could run ops out of the two gates, they are across from each other.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
775899
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Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:13 am

atrude777 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
atrude777 wrote:

No Way?! WN and COS will re-open the West Pac Concourse?!

Oh man....that would be wicked. The jetbridges are still there, but everything would have to be put together again.

I got to check out the West Pac Concourse when I worked at COS, talk about walking back into time...

That would be very neat, and makes sense for accommodating DEN Diversions.

Alex


They’ll probably need significant renovation if they haven’t been seriously used since the days of Western Pacific. Why can’t they be accommodated on the main concourse?


The renovations shouldn't be too much. It wasn't left vacant. When we had International diversions and they timed out, we used the West Pac Concourse to deplane them and quarantine them until Customs could screen them.

TSA uses it as an office out there, and we used to have meetings in the West Pac Side.

It's matter of flipping the lights on and reactivating the gates!

As for why...if the intention is to have gates for diversions, the main terminal can't accommodate that. There's only two vacant gates, the old Alaska Gate (Gate 1) and the former Gate 2 which was used for charters sometimes.

WN could run ops out of the two gates, they are across from each other.

Alex


But is there room for concessions and modern gate areas? That area will probably become the busiest area of the airport, so it will definitely need some upgrades.
 
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spinkid
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Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:31 am

It likely had food and retail space when Westpac opened it. I'm sure its just a matter of finding the vendors to take the spaces which pretty much will be the upgrade, perhaps a few other things. I remember when JetBlue first started at JFK in the Terminal 6 space it had some pretty bare bones concessions that they built up nicely over the years before moving out.
 
ORDZW
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Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:07 am

For what it’s worth, Southwest.com is showing Gate 1 in COS and Terminal 5 in ORD.

Looks like the dreams of the Westpac gates opening up are still on hold for now! Still, the number of diversions WN sends to COS on DEN bad weather days, it may not be a bad idea to dust them off a little!

https://www.southwest.com/html/air/airp ... IRPORTINFO
9E, AA, AQ, AX, BA, CO, CP, DH, DL, EV, F9, FL, HA, HP, KL, NK, NW, OH, OO, QX, RP, RW, S5, TW, UA, US, WN, YV, ZK, ZW
 
Flflyer83
Posts: 161
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Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:24 am

ORDZW wrote:
For what it’s worth, Southwest.com is showing Gate 1 in COS and Terminal 5 in ORD.

Looks like the dreams of the Westpac gates opening up are still on hold for now! Still, the number of diversions WN sends to COS on DEN bad weather days, it may not be a bad idea to dust them off a little!

https://www.southwest.com/html/air/airp ... IRPORTINFO


And keep in mind the “source” of the rumor that WN was going in to the shuttered gates... :roll:
 
need2fly
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Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:20 am

atrude777 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
atrude777 wrote:

No Way?! WN and COS will re-open the West Pac Concourse?!

Oh man....that would be wicked. The jetbridges are still there, but everything would have to be put together again.

I got to check out the West Pac Concourse when I worked at COS, talk about walking back into time...

That would be very neat, and makes sense for accommodating DEN Diversions.

Alex


They’ll probably need significant renovation if they haven’t been seriously used since the days of Western Pacific. Why can’t they be accommodated on the main concourse?


The renovations shouldn't be too much. It wasn't left vacant. When we had International diversions and they timed out, we used the West Pac Concourse to deplane them and quarantine them until Customs could screen them.

TSA uses it as an office out there, and we used to have meetings in the West Pac Side.

It's matter of flipping the lights on and reactivating the gates!

As for why...if the intention is to have gates for diversions, the main terminal can't accommodate that. There's only two vacant gates, the old Alaska Gate (Gate 1) and the former Gate 2 which was used for charters sometimes.

WN could run ops out of the two gates, they are across from each other.

Alex


COS mentioned on their Facebook page WN will not be moving into the shuttered East Terminal gates.

Image
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2448
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:32 am

need2fly wrote:
atrude777 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:

They’ll probably need significant renovation if they haven’t been seriously used since the days of Western Pacific. Why can’t they be accommodated on the main concourse?


The renovations shouldn't be too much. It wasn't left vacant. When we had International diversions and they timed out, we used the West Pac Concourse to deplane them and quarantine them until Customs could screen them.

TSA uses it as an office out there, and we used to have meetings in the West Pac Side.

It's matter of flipping the lights on and reactivating the gates!

As for why...if the intention is to have gates for diversions, the main terminal can't accommodate that. There's only two vacant gates, the old Alaska Gate (Gate 1) and the former Gate 2 which was used for charters sometimes.

WN could run ops out of the two gates, they are across from each other.

Alex


COS mentioned on their Facebook page WN will not be moving into the shuttered East Terminal gates.

Image

Thanks for the update.
Straight from the Horses mouth as they say.
2 gates at COS then sounds like if gates 1 and 2 are open then it's gates 1 and 2. I guess the bright side is there the shortest walk from security check point for the for all those COS- DEN passengers.
With that add it's time for WN to just start calling there Mega cities HUBS already.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:51 am

Looking like those 17 additional slots at LGB are gonna have to wait a while longer into the March or April 2021. But with the silliness of COS-DEN being added one could guess that WN has got it's sights on feeding them HUBS. I can see it now LGB new service 10 daily flights to LGB-LAX and 7 daily flights LGB-SAN feeding them Hubs. Going double down on California strong Hahahahaha.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:04 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Looking like those 17 additional slots at LGB are gonna have to wait a while longer into the March or April 2021. But with the silliness of COS-DEN being added one could guess that WN has got it's sights on feeding them HUBS. I can see it now LGB new service 10 daily flights to LGB-LAX and 7 daily flights LGB-SAN feeding them Hubs. Going double down on California strong Hahahahaha.


I certainly do not ever expect WN to add LGB-LAX/SAN nonstop service with WN already able to offer connections from LGB to almost all of the destinations that it serves nonstop from LAX or SAN through OAK, SMF, SJC, LAS, PHX, DEN, and AUS.

The situation is different at COS with DEN being the only WN hub that is within 500 miles of COS, whereas LAS, OAK, PHX, SMF, and SJC are all less than 400 miles from LGB. WN will also be offering connections to destinations in the Pacific Northwest, Mountain West, Midwest, and South that would otherwise require significant backtracking from COS through DEN, whereas there are already 1-stop connecting options that do not require backtracking to most of the destinations that have 1-stop connecting service from LGB on WN.

WN would also be able to provide 1-stop connectivity to more destinations from LGB by adding LGB-BWI/MDW/DAL nonstop service.
 
Scoots71
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:13 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:39 pm

jplatts wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
Surprised about DEN-COS. That's 70 miles!


Midwestindy wrote:
COS-DAL/DEN/LAS/MDW/PHX
-DEN-4x


The possibility of WN adding shorter nonstop routes such as BHM-ATL, MKE-MDW, PHL-BWI, and RIC-BWI is there with WN recently adding shorter nonstop routes such as COS-DEN, HNL-OGG, HNL-LIH, and OGG-KOA. Adds such as BHM-ATL, MKE-MDW, PHL-BWI, and RIC-BWI would provide easier connectivity to more of the WN network from Birmingham, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, and Richmond.

COS-DEN will also be the shortest WN nonstop route in WN's entire network, even shorter than WN's interisland Hawaii nonstop routes.

Here are the distances of COS-DEN, BHM-ATL, MKE-MDW, PHL-BWI, and RIC-BWI:
COS-DEN - 73 mi (shortest WN nonstop route in entire WN network)
MKE-MDW - 80 mi
PHL-BWI - 90 mi
RIC-BWI - 121 mi
BHM-ATL - 134 mi

While WN would have never added nonstop routes such as MKE-MDW, PHL-BWI, or RIC-BWI in the past, WN might be willing to add these nonstop routes with WN adding COS-DEN nonstop service.

WN re-adding LGA-BWI nonstop service is also a possibility as the return of LGA-BWI nonstop service would provide easier connectivity to NYC from the eastern half of the Midwest and the Southeast on WN. WN also had some O&D traffic on its LGA-BWI nonstop flights 8 years ago.


I don't see the BHM-ATL ever being a possibility. WN would be competing with a DL jauggernaut there, and the frequency of DL BHM-ATL flights makes for so many more connection possibilities, and many people in the BHM area just drive to ATL anyway.

In the similar vein though, BHM-BNA (200 mi) would be much more likely with better WN connectivity, and providing BHM with a gateway that is not going all the way up to BWI or MDW. BHM-BNA is actually a route that was flown in the Wright Amendment days.
 
MIflyer12
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Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:50 pm

Scoots71 wrote:
I don't see the BHM-ATL ever being a possibility. WN would be competing with a DL jauggernaut there, and the frequency of DL BHM-ATL flights makes for so many more connection possibilities, and many people in the BHM area just drive to ATL anyway.


BNA for WN - service to 46 cities - is marginally better than ATL (service to 38 cities) according to the City Fact Sheets as of 10/8/20.

No Southeast hub operation can really compete with ATL or CLT for destinations and frequency. WN has other vectors of competition.
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:19 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
BNA for WN - service to 46 cities - is marginally better than ATL (service to 38 cities) according to the City Fact Sheets as of 10/8/20.


There are actually a few destinations such as GSP, MEM, RIC, and PBI that WN currently serves nonstop from ATL but not from BNA, but ATL-MEM/RIC/PBI were served nonstop by FL prior to the WN-FL merger.
 
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william
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Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:50 pm

https://crankyflier.com/2020/10/29/sout ... -strategy/

Southwest’s New Cities Fit Neatly Into a Hub Strategy
 
atrude777
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Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:00 pm

ORDZW wrote:
For what it’s worth, Southwest.com is showing Gate 1 in COS and Terminal 5 in ORD.

Looks like the dreams of the Westpac gates opening up are still on hold for now! Still, the number of diversions WN sends to COS on DEN bad weather days, it may not be a bad idea to dust them off a little!

https://www.southwest.com/html/air/airp ... IRPORTINFO


Thanks for that source!

I was looking for it myself on the WN Website.

Gate 1 makes perfect sense that was a Vacated Gate from Alaska, back when Alaska pulled out of COS. This does make the return to COS under Alaska less likely now.

Southwest running 13 flights out of COS in one gate is not impossible, but wnflyguy has a point that if diversions happen and flow, there's going to be spill over.

Gate 2 if it's not out of commission can be used as a back up also. I last worked in COS in 2016, so things may have changed since then.

Welcome to COS, Southwest! Of course you choose COS after I left! Hahaha

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
DenverTed
Posts: 693
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Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:48 pm

Looking at March, COS - SEA versus DEN - SEA, fares are $123 versus $104. So a premium of $19 seems like a good deal. Operating a vehicle for 2 hours is $50 to $60 in gas, repair, and maintenance. As long as they keep the premium at $30 or $40, I'm sure most people will choose to fly over drive that leg.
 
User avatar
william
Posts: 3460
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Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:57 pm

Cranky's Flier opinion , makes sense.

https://crankyflier.com/2020/10/29/sout ... -strategy/

Southwest’s New Cities Fit Neatly Into a Hub Strategy
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15181
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:31 pm

william wrote:
Cranky's Flier opinion , makes sense.

https://crankyflier.com/2020/10/29/sout ... -strategy/

Southwest’s New Cities Fit Neatly Into a Hub Strategy


Cranky Flier doesn’t quite say this explicitly, but one advantage of growing into hub and spoke is that most WN hubs are in quite large local markets because those were the markets that could historically support a lot of p2p flying. That also helps new cities because there is some level of built-in O&D.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
775899
Posts: 1033
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:55 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
william wrote:
Cranky's Flier opinion , makes sense.

https://crankyflier.com/2020/10/29/sout ... -strategy/

Southwest’s New Cities Fit Neatly Into a Hub Strategy


Cranky Flier doesn’t quite say this explicitly, but one advantage of growing into hub and spoke is that most WN hubs are in quite large local markets because those were the markets that could historically support a lot of p2p flying. That also helps new cities because there is some level of built-in O&D.


But are all of their bases, plus BNA/STL, going to transition to a hub and spoke model? Does it really make sense to create connecting banks in leisure markets where WN has a base such as MCO and LAS?

Before the pandemic started, WN stated their primary focus for growth this decade was building up BWI, DEN and HOU. However, given the circumstances, it is probably wise to rethink this. Like I said yesterday, the markets they need to focus on in the coming decade are BWI/BNA/DAL/DEN/PHX, particularly if WN is serious about transitioning to a hub and spoke model. In no particular order, those markets should be their top 5 stations flight wise.

BWI/BNA cover the eastern US very well geographically and are in less competitive airports. DEN/PHX cover the western US well and are strong in their respective airports despite legacy competition from UA and AA respectively. DAL shores up the mid-continent well, but they need to figure out a long term solution on how to grow in the Dallas market once the remaining 5 party restrictions lift in 2025.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15181
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:04 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
william wrote:
Cranky's Flier opinion , makes sense.

https://crankyflier.com/2020/10/29/sout ... -strategy/

Southwest’s New Cities Fit Neatly Into a Hub Strategy


Cranky Flier doesn’t quite say this explicitly, but one advantage of growing into hub and spoke is that most WN hubs are in quite large local markets because those were the markets that could historically support a lot of p2p flying. That also helps new cities because there is some level of built-in O&D.


But are all of their bases, plus BNA/STL, going to transition to a hub and spoke model? Does it really make sense to create connecting banks in leisure markets where WN has a base such as MCO and LAS?

Before the pandemic started, WN stated their primary focus for growth this decade was building up BWI, DEN and HOU. However, given the circumstances, it is probably wise to rethink this. Like I said yesterday, the markets they need to focus on in the coming decade are BWI/BNA/DAL/DEN/PHX, particularly if WN is serious about transitioning to a hub and spoke model. In no particular order, those markets should be their top 5 stations flight wise.

BWI/BNA cover the eastern US very well geographically and are in less competitive airports. DEN/PHX cover the western US well and are strong in their respective airports despite legacy competition from UA and AA respectively. DAL shores up the mid-continent well, but they need to figure out a long term solution on how to grow in the Dallas market once the remaining 5 party restrictions lift in 2025.


Most WN cities over about 80 flights already have some degree of banking.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
OAHU747
Posts: 20
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Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:27 pm

atrude777 wrote:
Southwest running 13 flights out of COS in one gate is not impossible, but wnflyguy has a point that if diversions happen and flow, there's going to be spill over.


I'm more interested in how WN will be running 4 originators that depart within one hour out of that one gate.
My posts and opinions are mine only and are not from or representative of Southwest Airlines.
 
Flflyer83
Posts: 161
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:40 pm

Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:42 pm

OAHU747 wrote:
atrude777 wrote:
Southwest running 13 flights out of COS in one gate is not impossible, but wnflyguy has a point that if diversions happen and flow, there's going to be spill over.


I'm more interested in how WN will be running 4 originators that depart within one hour out of that one gate.


They’ll be operating from at least 2 gates as there are multiple times per day that they have 2 aircraft scheduled on the ground at the same time.
6:40
6:50
7:30
7:50

6:40 flight departs and 7:30 departure plane is towed in to the gate.
6:50 flight departs and 7:50 departure plane is towed in to the gate.

Voilà.

Turns look to be
10:00 - 10:45
10:25 - 11:00
11:05 - 11:45
12:05 - 12:45
13:00 - 13:40
14:15 - 14:55
15:55 - 16:30
16:05 - 16:45
18:00 - 18:40
And then the 4 terminators.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9631
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:01 am

DenverTed wrote:
Looking at March, COS - SEA versus DEN - SEA, fares are $123 versus $104. So a premium of $19 seems like a good deal. Operating a vehicle for 2 hours is $50 to $60 in gas, repair, and maintenance. As long as they keep the premium at $30 or $40, I'm sure most people will choose to fly over drive that leg.


That's a good reference, but it also begs the question if $19/person premium for that COS-DEN segment is the best use (and a satisfactory use long-term). Passengers may like connecting vs. driving to DEN but WN needs to find it profitable. Maybe there are other markets where WN will reap a larger premium.
 
DenverTed
Posts: 693
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:12 pm

Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:58 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
DenverTed wrote:
Looking at March, COS - SEA versus DEN - SEA, fares are $123 versus $104. So a premium of $19 seems like a good deal. Operating a vehicle for 2 hours is $50 to $60 in gas, repair, and maintenance. As long as they keep the premium at $30 or $40, I'm sure most people will choose to fly over drive that leg.


That's a good reference, but it also begs the question if $19/person premium for that COS-DEN segment is the best use (and a satisfactory use long-term). Passengers may like connecting vs. driving to DEN but WN needs to find it profitable. Maybe there are other markets where WN will reap a larger premium.

That's probably an intro fare. Can they make money if they charge an additional $40 to start in COS versus DEN to points beyond?
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 1117
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:46 am

Midwestindy wrote:
LotsaRunway wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
Why are you surprised? United flies it with the A320.
Nice to see the aggressive schedule. WN out for blood.

WN is out to get paying butts in seats any way they can. COS-DEN is a low resource investment, but will have very low O&D and would have to perform amazingly to stick around once the world settles down some. But for now, it's an easy way to add the WN connecting resources of DEN to COS. I figured WN would either do multiple COS-DEN and virtually nothing else or avoid DEN and only do places like PHX, LAS, and DAL for start up. I'm very surprised they are doing both on start up, but those predicting that 13 daily flights per day will not occur when COS is actually opened are spot-on IMHO.


Noteworthy, WN is offering $29 one-way tickets on COS-DEN, I haven't seen them offer a fare that low for a flight in recent memory.
https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... do-springs


Weren't some of the Hawaii inter-island flights initially priced at $29 for the first few weeks or am I misremembering?
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5162
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:07 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
DenverTed wrote:
Looking at March, COS - SEA versus DEN - SEA, fares are $123 versus $104. So a premium of $19 seems like a good deal. Operating a vehicle for 2 hours is $50 to $60 in gas, repair, and maintenance. As long as they keep the premium at $30 or $40, I'm sure most people will choose to fly over drive that leg.


That's a good reference, but it also begs the question if $19/person premium for that COS-DEN segment is the best use (and a satisfactory use long-term). Passengers may like connecting vs. driving to DEN but WN needs to find it profitable. Maybe there are other markets where WN will reap a larger premium.


You have to think downstream, that COS flight can now put seats onto den-bos, den-bdl, den-anywhere else they would have had an empty seat, so it's potentially a good move for them. The cos flight can lose money but could bring in alot more to other flights and cover the cost. The airlines are all desperate here for temporary ways to use their planes. I don't think these WN adds will stick post pandemic they just need somewhere to fly to as demand is so low overall. Routes like intercalifornia once the pandemic is over will explode again but right now they are looking for other ways to use those planes. As this stretches the need to do this is growing more and more. We see everyone adding PSP, and united adding a ton of Florida etc as examples of other adds that in a normal world would make no sense but we are in very challenging times
 
WN732
Posts: 996
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:58 pm

ctrabs0114 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
LotsaRunway wrote:
WN is out to get paying butts in seats any way they can. COS-DEN is a low resource investment, but will have very low O&D and would have to perform amazingly to stick around once the world settles down some. But for now, it's an easy way to add the WN connecting resources of DEN to COS. I figured WN would either do multiple COS-DEN and virtually nothing else or avoid DEN and only do places like PHX, LAS, and DAL for start up. I'm very surprised they are doing both on start up, but those predicting that 13 daily flights per day will not occur when COS is actually opened are spot-on IMHO.


Noteworthy, WN is offering $29 one-way tickets on COS-DEN, I haven't seen them offer a fare that low for a flight in recent memory.
https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... do-springs


Weren't some of the Hawaii inter-island flights initially priced at $29 for the first few weeks or am I misremembering?


Sometimes those intra Hawaii flights are that cheap regardless. If you're fast enough you can snatch them but they go fast.
 
Whokylejones619
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:09 am

Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:32 pm

New here but excited for SW announcement to JAN. Pre pandemic flew 2-3 times a month. What are expected routes for Southwest to JAN? When will it be announced? I noticed COS routes were announced very quickly. Thanks.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2448
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:33 pm

Whokylejones619 wrote:
New here but excited for SW announcement to JAN. Pre pandemic flew 2-3 times a month. What are expected routes for Southwest to JAN? When will it be announced? I noticed COS routes were announced very quickly. Thanks.

The next schedule release is on December 10th.
I'd expect the schedule to be released then.
My guess after seeing what they released with COS, I'm gonna guess something like 2 DAL, 2 HOU and 4 ATL.
With a pure feed into it's Hubs.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
jplatts
Posts: 4533
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:52 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Whokylejones619 wrote:
New here but excited for SW announcement to JAN. Pre pandemic flew 2-3 times a month. What are expected routes for Southwest to JAN? When will it be announced? I noticed COS routes were announced very quickly. Thanks.

My guess after seeing what they released with COS, I'm gonna guess something like 2 DAL, 2 HOU and 4 ATL.
Flyguy


I am unsure if WN adding JAN-DAL nonstop service will happen with there being bigger holes at DAL than the lack of JAN-DAL nonstop service. WN also had never served JAN nonstop from DAL, even though WN could legally serve JAN nonstop from DAL under the Shelby Amendment but prior to the repeal of the Wright Amendment on October 13, 2014.

WN re-adding JAN-HOU nonstop service is a possibility with WN having previously served HOU nonstop from JAN and with WN having recently made other domestic adds out of HOU.

There are also destinations already served by WN such as BUF, CVG, CRP, DSM, GRR, GSP, BDL, RIC, ORF, and TUS that do not currently have nonstop service from DAL and that had significantly more O&D demand from the DFW/DAL market in Q4 2019 than JAN-DFW/DAL.

WN is also more likely to make adds out of DAL that would have stronger O&D demand and stronger overall demand than DAL-JAN such as DAL-BUF/CVG/BDL/ORF before adding DAL-JAN nonstop service.

I am also currently seeing more than 195 daily departures out of DAL in WN's April 2021 flight schedules with the DAL-ORD/COS adds, but I am certainly expecting WN to be making cuts on DAL-MDW and other nonstop routes out of DAL.
 
sprxUSA
Posts: 600
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:17 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:18 pm

JAN-1x MCO/2x HOU/2x BNA/2x STL. My guess. Hopefully won't be like last time and have 120 through people and 5 local pass lol.
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
Delta28L
Posts: 444
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:00 pm

Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:08 am

wnflyguy wrote:
Whokylejones619 wrote:
New here but excited for SW announcement to JAN. Pre pandemic flew 2-3 times a month. What are expected routes for Southwest to JAN? When will it be announced? I noticed COS routes were announced very quickly. Thanks.

The next schedule release is on December 10th.
I'd expect the schedule to be released then.
My guess after seeing what they released with COS, I'm gonna guess something like 2 DAL, 2 HOU and 4 ATL.
With a pure feed into it's Hubs.

Flyguy


Four daily flights to ATL on SWA is a lot of capacity for JAN. That’s a lot of seats to fill during a pandemic considering DL is flying four daily flights from ATL with two being CRJs and the other two on a 717. I could see 2x DAL, 2x HOU, 2xATL, 1x to MDW and BNA, and Saturday service to MCO
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2448
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Announces Colorado Springs, Savannah, and Jackson

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:20 am

Delta28L wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Whokylejones619 wrote:
New here but excited for SW announcement to JAN. Pre pandemic flew 2-3 times a month. What are expected routes for Southwest to JAN? When will it be announced? I noticed COS routes were announced very quickly. Thanks.

The next schedule release is on December 10th.
I'd expect the schedule to be released then.
My guess after seeing what they released with COS, I'm gonna guess something like 2 DAL, 2 HOU and 4 ATL.
With a pure feed into it's Hubs.

Flyguy


Four daily flights to ATL on SWA is a lot of capacity for JAN. That’s a lot of seats to fill during a pandemic considering DL is flying four daily flights from ATL with two being CRJs and the other two on a 717. I could see 2x DAL, 2x HOU, 2xATL, 1x to MDW and BNA, and Saturday service to MCO

Looking more at the historical traffic flows with JAN.
I see this as a per political addition.
This time around JAN will be something of a smaller scale than I guessed before especially this being a post AirTran WN which looking at PSP isn't afraid to restart it with 98% 3ed party staffing.
Now my guess is 2 ATL, 1 DAL and 1 HOU. Wild card wound be 1 DEN or BWI.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2448
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:26 pm

Rene Jaco a fellow long time Airliners.net poster and WN Flight Attendant friend has passed away from Covid.
This one hurts because he was a great WN MDW source. Thanks for all your years of knowledge on not just WN but everything MDW airport history related.
R.I.P.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
SXDFC
Posts: 2123
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:07 pm

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:28 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Rene Jaco a fellow long time Airliners.net poster and WN Flight Attendant friend has passed away from Covid.
This one hurts because he was a great WN MDW source. Thanks for all your years of knowledge on not just WN but everything MDW airport history related.
R.I.P.

Flyguy


Was sad reading about the posts about him on the FA pages :( What was his username?
 
WN732
Posts: 996
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:56 am

I noticed that Nevada One has been at Everett for almost a month. Does anyone know if it's being retired, or if it's just getting a heavy check? Lone Star just came back from El Salvador yesterday.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3637
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Southwest Fleet/Network Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:37 pm

Southwest is launching Sarasota (SRQ) in the first quarter of 2021.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ByERussell/s ... 2579323904
Leaving the forums. You may know where to find me.

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