dcaproducer
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:03 pm

BHMNONREV wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
BHMNONREV wrote:

We had this same discussion about a linear terminal 12-13 years ago.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=463299&p=6411499&hilit=STL+Lambert#p6411499

I believe the best move forward is continue to put the lipstick on the pig with the status quo until the runway debt is paid down. When that happens I believe the linear option is the best one available, not the three proposed by the Consultant. Linear would be able to use a lot of the existing infrastructure and be built in phases as needed.

But WN is the one calling the shots here, and I believe they are content to move down D as they need more room.


I was bored while sitting on a conf. call, so I loaded a satellite image from Google maps into Photoshop and put this together. The aircraft and building are roughly to scale. I used the existing C concourse to create my measurements. The RJ's are scaled off of a CRJ900, mainline AC are a 737-8 and the widebody AC are 777.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uqhwz8ard5hik ... p.jpg?dl=0
No idea how to embed the image. In this mockup, T1 would be extended to the East and the roadways would be reconfigured to provide more curb space. The section connecting to the linear concourse would be similar to what DTW did with the McNamara terminal.


Very similar to what I had seen many years ago, but with a wider concourse a little closer to the main building and extended further to the west. This would allow for bi-directional taxiing on both the north and south sides of the concourse although with there no longer being a hub planes blocking a taxiway on pushback is not much of an issue anymore.

And the more I think about it the more I like Gavin's idea of extending the terminal out to where the parking garage sits. Raze the garage, build what is needed and place the garage on top, ala Tampa. With the extremely limited footprint available there is not a lot to work with.


The north side still has taxiway Charlie and Delta, so there is bi-directional traffic flow (someone correct me if I'm wrong). There are probably a few creative ways to utilize the space. I don't know if it's worth them spending the $ to demo the parking garage.

They also have ample space to work with if they reconfigure things. There'e really a lot of E-W real estate available.
 
BHMNONREV
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:08 pm

dcaproducer wrote:

The north side still has taxiway Charlie and Delta, so there is bi-directional traffic flow (someone correct me if I'm wrong). There are probably a few creative ways to utilize the space. I don't know if it's worth them spending the $ to demo the parking garage.

They also have ample space to work with if they reconfigure things. There'e really a lot of E-W real estate available.


I would agree on the parking garage, but something to certainly consider much more than the proposals presented from the Consultant. And yes there is a lot of space available, especially to the west since the MOANG is gone.

It's fun to dream, but remains a pipe dream at this point..
 
Istria2020
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:09 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:31 am

qf789 wrote:
Welcome to St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020. Please continue to add your comments below

Link to last thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411877



Hi everyone! I have been reading these comments about STL everyday for over three years. I am passionate about the success of the airport and a big fan of what Jshank has to say. I finally figured out how to post on here. Lol I have serveral questions. How come STL has no flight to New York JFK. This is beyond my imagination. Also any Italian airline ever interested in doing seasonal? Milan Malpensa or Rome? What about focusing on seasonal international flights. Also whoever takes care of the STL wikipedia page needs to keep it updated!! I like most ideas on here. I am STL proud. Every flight we obtain is something positive. I do believe there is demand for more flights from our metropolitan area which is top 20 in the nation. 3 million people is larger than most European cities with massive amounts of flights. My question is, are airlines listening?
 
Istria2020
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:09 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:38 am

Is there a way we can see the non US cities where STL fliers go to the most? For example, how many per day are flying to London, Dubai, Hong Kong. I would like to see numbers on every major city in the world. I know the airport has those numbers. Specially, what are our numbers on Canada? Why can't we get a flight to Montreal or Vancouver or Calgary.
 
Jshank83
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Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:45 am

Istria2020 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Welcome to St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020. Please continue to add your comments below

Link to last thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411877



Hi everyone! I have been reading these comments about STL everyday for over three years. I am passionate about the success of the airport and a big fan of what Jshank has to say. I finally figured out how to post on here. Lol I have serveral questions. How come STL has no flight to New York JFK. This is beyond my imagination. Also any Italian airline ever interested in doing seasonal? Milan Malpensa or Rome? What about focusing on seasonal international flights. Also whoever takes care of the STL wikipedia page needs to keep it updated!! I like most ideas on here. I am STL proud. Every flight we obtain is something positive. I do believe there is demand for more flights from our metropolitan area which is top 20 in the nation. 3 million people is larger than most European cities with massive amounts of flights. My question is, are airlines listening?



I think the reason most believe the reason there is no JFK flight - plenty of hubs (especially ORD/DTW/ATL) between here and there for INTL connections. Most flying to NYC as the destination want to fly to LGA so there isn’t as much of a need for a JFK flight (although I personally would like it on Delta).

I can’t see an Italian airline coming, although Rome is one of our highest TATL O&D destinations.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3170
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:47 am

Istria2020 wrote:
Is there a way we can see the non US cities where STL fliers go to the most? For example, how many per day are flying to London, Dubai, Hong Kong. I would like to see numbers on every major city in the world. I know the airport has those numbers. Specially, what are our numbers on Canada? Why can't we get a flight to Montreal or Vancouver or Calgary.


Not released publicly. Airports and airlines know and sometimes release some but there isn’t a place just anyone can go see them.
 
Trololzilla
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:53 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:21 am

Istria2020 wrote:
Also whoever takes care of the STL wikipedia page needs to keep it updated!!

That used to mainly be me. I basically stopped giving a shit a few months ago because I got tired of fighting with this one person constantly changing stuff on there (and a LOT of other airport pages) to suit 'their vision' of how an airport page should look like on Wikipedia. They did this under the pretense of "following the guidelines" or "X should be Y, per WP:Z", even though the guidelines cited rarely, if ever, actually specified that something couldn't/shouldn't be done a certain way, nor did some of the cited guidelines actually have anything to do with what reason that person gave for their changes. Besides, the guideline pages literally state that they're supposed to be general guidelines and actually give a lot of leeway with what can be included and how it is implemented. I spent a lot of time improving that page, even requesting a review and getting it a higher page rating, so it got exhausting to see a lot of my work basically be pissed away by Wikipedia's equivalent of the Soup Nazi.
 
Istria2020
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:09 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:40 am

I can’t see an Italian airline coming, although Rome is one of our highest TATL O&D destinations.[/quote]

Where do you get the info about Rome being one of our highest TATL O&D ? I am so curious about all of that. Who is in charge of getting more routes at Lambert. We need a gigantic PR push for more flights and not just Florida..

Also why can't we get a flight to Norfolk? Richmond and Norfolk are so close to each other and both have good O&D. TWA used to fly to Norfolk. Pick Norfolk and you will get Richmond travellers who don't want to haul to DC.

Can some travel agents in STL please advertise places other than Florida or cruises? I swear people in STL are so closed minded about trying new things....drives me up a wall.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3170
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:40 pm

Istria2020 wrote:
I can’t see an Italian airline coming, although Rome is one of our highest TATL O&D destinations.


Where do you get the info about Rome being one of our highest TATL O&D ? I am so curious about all of that. Who is in charge of getting more routes at Lambert. We need a gigantic PR push for more flights and not just Florida..

Also why can't we get a flight to Norfolk? Richmond and Norfolk are so close to each other and both have good O&D. TWA used to fly to Norfolk. Pick Norfolk and you will get Richmond travellers who don't want to haul to DC.

Can some travel agents in STL please advertise places other than Florida or cruises? I swear people in STL are so closed minded about trying new things....drives me up a wall.[/quote]

The airport has its own route development team that is in charge of getting more flights.

I have seen the O&D stats for Europe from time to time so I have an idea of where they are.

I would guess Norfolk/Richmond is on the short list of the next Southwest add.
 
Jshank83
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Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:37 pm

I haven't looked over everything with the WN update but did a quick browse of mostly west coast stations. SEA stays at 2x a weekday BOS stays at 5x. I thought those for sure would be cut down. SLC is totally gone and OAK is cut back to weekends. But the rest. SFO/SJC/SMF/PDX/SEA/SAN/LAX seems to all be unchanged (at least weekday wise).

I'll go thru them all tonight or tomorrow and post it if I get a chance.
 
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stl07
Posts: 2028
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:41 pm

SEA and BOS are high for one and only one reason. Those routes will be attacked at by DL and now AA if they lowered them
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 2028
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:42 pm

Now that AS is with AA, can we please get our PDX and SAN flights back. Everyone in STL has AA FF accounts, they wouldn't even need to market the flights.
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
pmanni1
Posts: 191
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:26 pm

AUS, MKE & MSY stay at 3X daily. SAT goes back to 2X, DEN stays at 7X, LGA stays at 4X, MDW stays at 9X. So far it doesn't look like the cuts affected STL too much.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3170
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:24 am

June changes for WN.

74 flights removed a week or 8% loss over original schedule

Still 32 flights more than June 2019 or 4% gain


Mon-Fri 122 (-10)
Sat 108 (-9)
Sun 127 (-15)
Total 845
 
Istria2020
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:09 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:04 am

Delta needs to add BOS now. Delta needa to expand in STL asap
 
Istria2020
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:09 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:35 am

It seems that demand is growing in the STL market for flights. Why don't airlines see this and begin to invest in STL
 
pmanni1
Posts: 191
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:38 am

A few more I noticed - PIT stays at 2X, both CLE & PHL go down to 2X and both MCI & LAS go down to 3X daily. Not seeing where the other cuts are coming from.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3170
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:57 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
A few more I noticed - PIT stays at 2X, both CLE & PHL go down to 2X and both MCI & LAS go down to 3X daily. Not seeing where the other cuts are coming from.

Monday-Friday cuts BWI/CLE/MDW/MCI/OAK/SLC/PHX/PHL/LAS/SAT
 
pmanni1
Posts: 191
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:17 am

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:25 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
A few more I noticed - PIT stays at 2X, both CLE & PHL go down to 2X and both MCI & LAS go down to 3X daily. Not seeing where the other cuts are coming from.

Monday-Friday cuts BWI/CLE/MDW/MCI/OAK/SLC/PHX/PHL/LAS/SAT

Oh yes thanks! Interesting that OAK is weekends only and they gave up the morning PHX flight to AA. Did MDW have 10X? I thought they upped it to 9X and it looks like its been kept at 9.
 
Jshank83
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Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:52 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
A few more I noticed - PIT stays at 2X, both CLE & PHL go down to 2X and both MCI & LAS go down to 3X daily. Not seeing where the other cuts are coming from.

Monday-Friday cuts BWI/CLE/MDW/MCI/OAK/SLC/PHX/PHL/LAS/SAT

Oh yes thanks! Interesting that OAK is weekends only and they gave up the morning PHX flight to AA. Did MDW have 10X? I thought they upped it to 9X and it looks like its been kept at 9.


MDW was at 10.
 
User avatar
TVNWZ
Posts: 2228
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:17 pm

Istria2020 wrote:
It seems that demand is growing in the STL market for flights. Why don't airlines see this and begin to invest in STL


Airlines have a finite number of planes. Demand may be growing, but it probably is growing more in other cities. So they put their resources there.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3328
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:45 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
I would guess Norfolk/Richmond is on the short list of the next Southwest add.


WN is more likely to add STL-ORF nonstop service than STL-RIC nonstop service since (a) STL-ORF had slightly higher PDEW's than STL-RIC in Q3 2019 and (b) WN has a bigger presence at ORF than it does at RIC.

Here were the Q3 2019 PDEW's of STL-ORF and STL-RIC:
STL-ORF - 62
STL-RIC - 46

WN adding STL-CLT and STL-JAX nonstop service also might happen with STL-CLT and STL-JAX both having having higher PDEW's than STL-ORF or STL-RIC.

Here are the 2019 Q3 PDEW's of other top routes that WN doesn't currently serve nonstop from STL:
STL-CLT - 151
STL-JAX - 78
STL-IAD - 74
STL-SNA - 72
STL-CVG - 51
STL-PVD - 47
STL-ABQ - 44
STL-ONT - 39
STL-PWM - 38
STL-BUF - 38
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3170
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:43 pm

jplatts wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
I would guess Norfolk/Richmond is on the short list of the next Southwest add.


WN is more likely to add STL-ORF nonstop service than STL-RIC nonstop service since (a) STL-ORF had slightly higher PDEW's than STL-RIC in Q3 2019 and (b) WN has a bigger presence at ORF than it does at RIC.

Here were the Q3 2019 PDEW's of STL-ORF and STL-RIC:
STL-ORF - 62
STL-RIC - 46

WN adding STL-CLT and STL-JAX nonstop service also might happen with STL-CLT and STL-JAX both having having higher PDEW's than STL-ORF or STL-RIC.

Here are the 2019 Q3 PDEW's of other top routes that WN doesn't currently serve nonstop from STL:
STL-CLT - 151
STL-JAX - 78
STL-IAD - 74
STL-SNA - 72
STL-CVG - 51
STL-PVD - 47
STL-ABQ - 44
STL-ONT - 39
STL-PWM - 38
STL-BUF - 38


I keep all those numbers myself but thanks. numbers averaged for the last full year of data.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 1161510978

JAX-80 (doesn't include BLV numbers)
ORF - 56
RIC - 46
ABQ -41
TUS -34
SAV - 33 (G4 starting from BLV this summer)
BUF -31
RNO -31
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3170
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:24 pm

November stats for BLV are out

Down 5.26% on the month
Down 0.74% on the year

At 282K for the year.

Going to be really close if they make the 300K mark this year.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3170
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:43 pm

August Intl Load Factors for STL

Southwest Cancun 94%
Volaris Puerto Vallarta 94%*
Southwest Montego Bay 93%
Volaris Cabo 92%*
Frontier Cancun 82%
Air Canada 76%
Frontier Punta Cana 66%*

*Return numbers only. End of charter season means light last outbound and throws off numbers
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 483
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:32 pm

AA now has regular A321s on CLT-STL (AA818). I've also seen SY's Transavia 738 going to Florida destinations.
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