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OzarkD9S
Posts: 5678
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:26 pm

pmanni1 wrote:

I'm not so sure Aer Lingus to Dublin would be the best option. The article said 300 people each day travel to Europe with the largest proportion going to London. BA to LHR seems most sensible. A few people go to Dublin and the rest would be connections just as WOW to KEF was.


LHR would obviously be the best/preferred option. But an EI 321 would be easier to fill, provide suitable connections and if EI could manage to get half of those 300 daily pax they would be fine. Market stimulation could add enough new pax to make a DUB flight solidly profitable. An AA codeshare wouldn't hurt either.
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3503
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:19 am

Frontier opened their schedule into November. Everything is status quo except that Denver goes back to daily in August. CUN goes to 3x a week but it did that last year also for August-October.
 
STLflyer
Posts: 255
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:35 am

I know I should probably get used to the idea of long haul flights on narrowbodies because they're going to become more common, but I really hope it's BA since they'd use a widebody (I'd assume a 787) on the route. I know range isn't an issue, and the seats are theoretically just as comfortable (or uncomfortable) as those on a widebody, but I can't help but feel claustrophobic on narrowbodies and I don't get that feeling on wides.

Plus who wouldn't love regularly seeing a Dreamliner at Lambert?
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3503
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:03 am

STLflyer wrote:
I know I should probably get used to the idea of long haul flights on narrowbodies because they're going to become more common, but I really hope it's BA since they'd use a widebody (I'd assume a 787) on the route. I know range isn't an issue, and the seats are theoretically just as comfortable (or uncomfortable) as those on a widebody, but I can't help but feel claustrophobic on narrowbodies and I don't get that feeling on wides.

Plus who wouldn't love regularly seeing a Dreamliner at Lambert?


For me it is more about seat config. If it is a A321 or 787 it is still 3 to a row in coach. I am a sucker for a 330 or 767 because of the 2 seats on the window sides. That said I would also prefer a 787 over an A321 for the business community and just to get a wide body (we already get A321s) but it really isn't going to make a huge difference once I am in the seat.
 
atrude777
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:26 pm

Cape Air update regarding the new Tecnam Aircraft...

Cape Air’s Facebook Page (also confirmed on their website), Tecnam will begin March 4th in Marion, Illinois-MWA.

Just checked the flight schedule and it is confirmed! STL will get the Tecnam beginning March 4!

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:51 pm

atrude777 wrote:

Cape Air update regarding the new Tecnam Aircraft...

Cape Air’s Facebook Page (also confirmed on their website), Tecnam will begin March 4th in Marion, Illinois-MWA.

Just checked the flight schedule and it is confirmed! STL will get the Tecnam beginning March 4!

Alex


Good news. Once they get a couple more of those birds here I'm gonna book an out-and-back for the experience.
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 305
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:06 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:

I'm not so sure Aer Lingus to Dublin would be the best option. The article said 300 people each day travel to Europe with the largest proportion going to London. BA to LHR seems most sensible. A few people go to Dublin and the rest would be connections just as WOW to KEF was.


LHR would obviously be the best/preferred option. But an EI 321 would be easier to fill, provide suitable connections and if EI could manage to get half of those 300 daily pax they would be fine. Market stimulation could add enough new pax to make a DUB flight solidly profitable. An AA codeshare wouldn't hurt either.


Big business wants a major network carrier with a large global alliance. BA direct to LHR is what businesses want. If you're going to connect, why not just hop an AA flight up to ORD. STL-LHR gives you a (1) stop route to a big chunk of the world. I think it's time for the airport and city to stop playing games. From the outside of the market looking in they just look silly.
 
stlgph
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:40 pm

What businesses want is just to get there. If Lufthansa shows up...great. If Aer Lingus shows up...great. then that's what you get. Make it work.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:22 pm

Too bad about Trans states shutting down. I'll be curious to see what happens with gojet. Maybe it means less 145s flying thru here on UA though.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:08 pm

stlgph wrote:
What businesses want is just to get there.


I'm in a much larger market, but I can tell you for my business and my clients that is not true. For businesses there's a reliability factor knowing if you fly BA to a major hub like LHR there are options for INOPS, delays, options to re-route etc.
 
 
stlgph
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:03 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
stlgph wrote:
What businesses want is just to get there.


I'm in a much larger market, but I can tell you for my business and my clients that is not true. For businesses there's a reliability factor knowing if you fly BA to a major hub like LHR there are options for INOPS, delays, options to re-route etc.


And there are the same options in flying someone like Aer Lingus.


But clearly the pompous idea is that Britsh Airways is the *only* airline that matters here so to hell with everything else.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
BHMNONREV
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:08 pm

stlgph wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
stlgph wrote:
What businesses want is just to get there.


I'm in a much larger market, but I can tell you for my business and my clients that is not true. For businesses there's a reliability factor knowing if you fly BA to a major hub like LHR there are options for INOPS, delays, options to re-route etc.


And there are the same options in flying someone like Aer Lingus.


But clearly the pompous idea is that Britsh Airways is the *only* airline that matters here so to hell with everything else.


Gavin, I believe Aer Lingus will be the option that comes to pass here for now. Personally I think BA is skittish at taking a stab at STL and would be more content to let little brother have a go before deciding if the market is ready for prime time.

I see nothing wrong with the EI option, and while they don't have BA's global reach their European network is nothing to sneeze at. At the end of the day it will be up to the STL air travellers to make it work. Time to put their money where their mouth is...
 
PhilMcCrackin
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:54 pm

EI isn't BA and DUB isn't LHR.

I see EI talked about a lot here but I don't see the logic in why they would want to come to STL? They aren't exactly known for flying to second tier midwestern US cities.
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:04 pm

I think we need to settle down. People here are talking like there has already been an announcement. I'm worried we are getting too excited and nothing will come of it just like the other past 10 years we have gone through this cycle.
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:06 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
EI isn't BA and DUB isn't LHR.

I see EI talked about a lot here but I don't see the logic in why they would want to come to STL? They aren't exactly known for flying to second tier midwestern US cities.

They did just add MSP which is by definition a 2nd tier midwest city. But MSPers also travel way more than the average American, which shows in their way larger than normal airport operations.
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:22 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
EI isn't BA and DUB isn't LHR.

I see EI talked about a lot here but I don't see the logic in why they would want to come to STL? They aren't exactly known for flying to second tier midwestern US cities.


They would have already been here if not for their A321LR delivery delays. Having that plane opens up their smaller city options. So IF BA/LH comes it might be better in the long run that they had those delays.
 
stlgph
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:53 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
EI isn't BA and DUB isn't LHR.

I see EI talked about a lot here but I don't see the logic in why they would want to come to STL? They aren't exactly known for flying to second tier midwestern US cities.


Simple. They havent had the right plane for such missions.

I don't see them going off the wall gangbusters at expansion but with capabilities they will have in a few years seeing them at St Louis or Milwaukee or both would not surprise me if another carrier has not come in by then.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Istria2020
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:11 am

I work for Bayer and I need to travel to Europe regularly. STL needs a direct flight to London, Paris, Frankfurt, Amsterdam, anything. It's insane that we don't have anything. I get angry that people in Cincinnati of all places can fly to Paris. What is up with that. We have so many international businesses here and I have colleagues and friends that are continually needing to fly to Europe but they opt flying from Chicago instead.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:40 am

Istria2020 wrote:
I work for Bayer and I need to travel to Europe regularly. STL needs a direct flight to London, Paris, Frankfurt, Amsterdam, anything. It's insane that we don't have anything. I get angry that people in Cincinnati of all places can fly to Paris. What is up with that. We have so many international businesses here and I have colleagues and friends that are continually needing to fly to Europe but they opt flying from Chicago instead.


CVG to Paris is around from when they were a Delta hub and they still are a focus city so they get some connecting feed for it.

I would love to know how much leakage we have to ORD for INTL flights.
 
stlgph
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:01 am

Shhhh....dont tell him about Indianapolis.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:09 am

Istria2020 wrote:
I work for Bayer and I need to travel to Europe regularly. STL needs a direct flight to London, Paris, Frankfurt, Amsterdam, anything. It's insane that we don't have anything. I get angry that people in Cincinnati of all places can fly to Paris. What is up with that. We have so many international businesses here and I have colleagues and friends that are continually needing to fly to Europe but they opt flying from Chicago instead.

Out of curiosity, how would a flight to your destination via Amsterdam do you any better than a flight to your destination via ORD
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
jmy007
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:13 pm

stl07 wrote:
Istria2020 wrote:
I work for Bayer and I need to travel to Europe regularly. STL needs a direct flight to London, Paris, Frankfurt, Amsterdam, anything. It's insane that we don't have anything. I get angry that people in Cincinnati of all places can fly to Paris. What is up with that. We have so many international businesses here and I have colleagues and friends that are continually needing to fly to Europe but they opt flying from Chicago instead.

Out of curiosity, how would a flight to your destination via Amsterdam do you any better than a flight to your destination via ORD


Flying via LHR or AMS, would be one stop services to secondary Euopean airports, say a Lyon, or Hamburg. With ORD, you'd need a double connection.
Cookies are the Gateway pastry. They lead to Éclairs and Bear Claws.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:28 pm

stl07 wrote:
Istria2020 wrote:
I work for Bayer and I need to travel to Europe regularly. STL needs a direct flight to London, Paris, Frankfurt, Amsterdam, anything. It's insane that we don't have anything. I get angry that people in Cincinnati of all places can fly to Paris. What is up with that. We have so many international businesses here and I have colleagues and friends that are continually needing to fly to Europe but they opt flying from Chicago instead.

Out of curiosity, how would a flight to your destination via Amsterdam do you any better than a flight to your destination via ORD


When you're part of a large multi-national business and you're talking about where you work, it's a joke when you work in a large market like STL where there's no direct connection to a major European business hub. Businesses want that B2B connection, and I think LHR would be the best from a business standpoint.

STL is the 20th largest metro area in the country. 1-19 all have a direct connection to Europe. So does 21-30, with the exception of SMF.
 
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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:42 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Istria2020 wrote:
I work for Bayer and I need to travel to Europe regularly. STL needs a direct flight to London, Paris, Frankfurt, Amsterdam, anything. It's insane that we don't have anything. I get angry that people in Cincinnati of all places can fly to Paris. What is up with that. We have so many international businesses here and I have colleagues and friends that are continually needing to fly to Europe but they opt flying from Chicago instead.

Out of curiosity, how would a flight to your destination via Amsterdam do you any better than a flight to your destination via ORD


When you're part of a large multi-national business and you're talking about where you work, it's a joke when you work in a large market like STL where there's no direct connection to a major European business hub. Businesses want that B2B connection, and I think LHR would be the best from a business standpoint.

STL is the 20th largest metro area in the country. 1-19 all have a direct connection to Europe. So does 21-30, with the exception of SMF.


We have a huge office in London and our world HQ is here in STL. We travel to London frequently and co-workers from the UK fly here. I don't work for a small start-up or mom and pop LLC, so the need IS there and I think that when we get it, people will be shocked at how full it is. I know the incentives have been an issue but honestly, it gets really old connecting. I want BA for the main fact that London is my frequent place of travel but it offers so much more for connections. I don't care if it is BA or Virgin or whomever. I just hope it happens.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:44 pm

Sun Country extended their schedule into December. The Vegas flights are back end of August.
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:41 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Sun Country extended their schedule into December. The Vegas flights are back end of August.

I now have more respect for them than Frontier
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:13 pm

stl07 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Sun Country extended their schedule into December. The Vegas flights are back end of August.

I now have more respect for them than Frontier


What about PDX, TPA, RSW, MSP? Are those still up?
Delta Gold Medallion
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:14 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Sun Country extended their schedule into December. The Vegas flights are back end of August.

I now have more respect for them than Frontier


What about PDX, TPA, RSW, MSP? Are those still up?


Same schedule as 2019. TPA/RSW running now. MSP/PDX run summer. MSP/LAS run fall.

I am flying them to RSW next week.
 
PhilMcCrackin
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:25 pm

Istria2020 wrote:
I work for Bayer and I need to travel to Europe regularly. STL needs a direct flight to London, Paris, Frankfurt, Amsterdam, anything. It's insane that we don't have anything. I get angry that people in Cincinnati of all places can fly to Paris. What is up with that. We have so many international businesses here and I have colleagues and friends that are continually needing to fly to Europe but they opt flying from Chicago instead.


Here's a fun story. I worked for Inbev/AB in the years following the merger. We actually leased office space in NYC and sent most of the top North American execs there because it was too damn difficult to fly internationally from STL. BRU and Brazil were both direct flights. The Brazilians *hated* coming to STL.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:18 am

March frequencies for STL/BLV

WN 767 -44 (-5.4%) - This is from before the MAX was grounded mid march so after that grounding it probably is a lot closer.
AA 254 -4 (-1.5%)
UA 198 +7 (+3.7%)
DL 193 -4 (-2%)
G4 31 +9 (+41%)
F9 29 -8 (-21.6%)
AC 21 +1 (+5%)
AS 7 -7 (-50%)
SY 4 -2 (-33%)

Total STL 1619 -80 (-4.7%)

Seats Mondays YoY Difference

AA 4416 (+7.1%)
DL 3432 (+9.4%)
UA 1606 (-4.5%)

Notes:

WN - PBI/PUJ/ECP/PNS/MBJ/CHS are all starting back up for the season.
DL - MCO did not come back for the season
Big 3 - Interesting that UA was the only one up flights but down seats. Shows how DL/AA are moving to bigger planes.

March could be a rough month overall. Most airlines are down flights. Not sure how bad the WN grounding will hit but it won't be good. I would expect the 5% down ends up more like 2-3% for them.

Full Spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:47 pm

Wingtips lounge is now priority pass eligible.
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:18 am

Based on these last few announcements, it seems the fasted way to get LH to announce is by getting DE to announce a few weeks before ;)
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:01 pm

Numbers for January are out for STL

Passengers are Up 3.9%
Cargo up 18.7%

Not bad considering the max was flying last January and not this one.
https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... PubRel.pdf
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:40 pm

TWA302 wrote:

We have a huge office in London and our world HQ is here in STL. We travel to London frequently and co-workers from the UK fly here. I don't work for a small start-up or mom and pop LLC, so the need IS there and I think that when we get it, people will be shocked at how full it is. I know the incentives have been an issue but honestly, it gets really old connecting. I want BA for the main fact that London is my frequent place of travel but it offers so much more for connections. I don't care if it is BA or Virgin or whomever. I just hope it happens.


If it would be that strong Bayer should be talking to BA--or more practically LH-- about guaranteeing a certain amount of business to start service. P&G had a deal with Delta for many years in CVG. Is there any talk about that?
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:42 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Numbers for January are out for STL

Passengers are Up 3.9%
Cargo up 18.7%

Not bad considering the max was flying last January and not this one.
https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... PubRel.pdf


Those are good numbers. Good cargo numbers. The Amazon flights weren’t flying last January correct?
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:23 am

dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Numbers for January are out for STL

Passengers are Up 3.9%
Cargo up 18.7%

Not bad considering the max was flying last January and not this one.
https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... PubRel.pdf


Those are good numbers. Good cargo numbers. The Amazon flights weren’t flying last January correct?


Correct. First started August or September. I think the 2nd started in October.
 
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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:28 am

TVNWZ wrote:
TWA302 wrote:

We have a huge office in London and our world HQ is here in STL. We travel to London frequently and co-workers from the UK fly here. I don't work for a small start-up or mom and pop LLC, so the need IS there and I think that when we get it, people will be shocked at how full it is. I know the incentives have been an issue but honestly, it gets really old connecting. I want BA for the main fact that London is my frequent place of travel but it offers so much more for connections. I don't care if it is BA or Virgin or whomever. I just hope it happens.


If it would be that strong Bayer should be talking to BA--or more practically LH-- about guaranteeing a certain amount of business to start service. P&G had a deal with Delta for many years in CVG. Is there any talk about that?


I am not a Bayer employee , but with the TATL business we support with those 2x London offices as well as Amsterdam and Poland it would be very nice. I can chat with our CEO and see if he has any insight on his possible chats or insight.
Last edited by TWA302 on Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:29 am

Jshank83 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Numbers for January are out for STL

Passengers are Up 3.9%
Cargo up 18.7%

Not bad considering the max was flying last January and not this one.
https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... PubRel.pdf


Those are good numbers. Good cargo numbers. The Amazon flights weren’t flying last January correct?


Correct. First started August or September. I think the 2nd started in October.

Wow. Nice stats. Those cargo numbers are really impressive.
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:33 am

TWA302 wrote:
TVNWZ wrote:
TWA302 wrote:

We have a huge office in London and our world HQ is here in STL. We travel to London frequently and co-workers from the UK fly here. I don't work for a small start-up or mom and pop LLC, so the need IS there and I think that when we get it, people will be shocked at how full it is. I know the incentives have been an issue but honestly, it gets really old connecting. I want BA for the main fact that London is my frequent place of travel but it offers so much more for connections. I don't care if it is BA or Virgin or whomever. I just hope it happens.


If it would be that strong Bayer should be talking to BA--or more practically LH-- about guaranteeing a certain amount of business to start service. P&G had a deal with Delta for many years in CVG. Is there any talk about that?


I am not a Bayer employee , but with the TATL business we support with those 2x London offices as well as Amsterdam and Poland it would be very nice. I can chat with our CEO and see if he has any insight on his possible chats or insight.

That would be great.
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
pmanni1
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:33 am

Does anyone know the Amazon flights arrival/departure times? I've yet to see one.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 1:40 pm

TWA302 wrote:
TVNWZ wrote:
TWA302 wrote:

We have a huge office in London and our world HQ is here in STL. We travel to London frequently and co-workers from the UK fly here. I don't work for a small start-up or mom and pop LLC, so the need IS there and I think that when we get it, people will be shocked at how full it is. I know the incentives have been an issue but honestly, it gets really old connecting. I want BA for the main fact that London is my frequent place of travel but it offers so much more for connections. I don't care if it is BA or Virgin or whomever. I just hope it happens.


If it would be that strong Bayer should be talking to BA--or more practically LH-- about guaranteeing a certain amount of business to start service. P&G had a deal with Delta for many years in CVG. Is there any talk about that?


I am not a Bayer employee , but with the TATL business we support with those 2x London offices as well as Amsterdam and Poland it would be very nice. I can chat with our CEO and see if he has any insight on his possible chats or insight.


My dad was in the C-suite at HOK for 30+ years and their largest international office, during most of his tenure, was London. He used the TWA direct flight to LGW several times a year. Always in paid J. When AA came in, and dropped London, he hated connecting through ORD or NYC.

My firm does a lot of work with business aviation and one of the biggest selling points companies tell us, time and time again, for why they have a flight dept. (private aircraft) is it saves time. I was at Steelcase in Grand Rapids a few years ago. They have a fleet of private jets that they use to fly customers to their facility in Michigan on a daily basis to meet face to face with sales reps. The ROI is picking up a large sale that would have been difficult to secure if they didn't have the jets. Imagine telling a customer I can pick you up in the morning and drop you off in time for dinner.

Connection issues also concern businesses. If you're traveling for business it's important. Missing a connection or having connection issues can throw things way off. I'm not saying direct is always perfect, but you add that increased chance of issues when you have to connect. This may mean an extra night in a hotel somewhere or missing a key meeting. To businesses this is a huge deal.

Part of me things businesses in STL were spoiled with TWA and now that they have to potentially subsidize a flight to Europe, or provide a revenue guarantee, they are balking. That's where we are today. I think businesses and the city will come around.
 
PhilMcCrackin
Posts: 317
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:32 pm

Of course.

If your C-level folk are making astronomical sums of money, do you really want them losing productivity by having to fly commercial when they could be flying direct on a private jet with an environment more conducive to getting things done? Private jets aren't cheap, but there's a certain point where they pay for themselves.

There's a security component too. Private jets are far more secure than commercial airliners are where you can't control who's in your environment. Do you really want your semi-famous, $80M/yr CEO flying with the unwashed masses? Hell no, you don't. Another certain large company HQed in STL that I worked for mandated that the CEO had to fly private, even on leisure time, for exactly that reason.
 
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TWA302
Posts: 737
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:17 am

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:19 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
Does anyone know the Amazon flights arrival/departure times? I've yet to see one.



https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ABX3941/history/20200228/0044Z/KBWI/KSTL GB flights
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/GTI3036/history/20200226/1931Z/KCVG/KSTL 5Y flights

And an odd 5Y one that landed today https://flightaware.com/live/flight/id/GTI7920-1582837817-24-2-28%3a0
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 305
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:23 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
Of course.

If your C-level folk are making astronomical sums of money, do you really want them losing productivity by having to fly commercial when they could be flying direct on a private jet with an environment more conducive to getting things done? Private jets aren't cheap, but there's a certain point where they pay for themselves.

There's a security component too. Private jets are far more secure than commercial airliners are where you can't control who's in your environment. Do you really want your semi-famous, $80M/yr CEO flying with the unwashed masses? Hell no, you don't. Another certain large company HQed in STL that I worked for mandated that the CEO had to fly private, even on leisure time, for exactly that reason.


The C-Suite has expanded in the past couple of decades and is far more than just a CEO and Senior VP's travel frequently as well. With that said, many companies don't have the revenue to justify private, but they will pay for business class.

My point is that businesses will support a non-stop flight on a major carrier between STL and a major international business market such as London.
 
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TWA302
Posts: 737
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:25 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
Of course.

If your C-level folk are making astronomical sums of money, do you really want them losing productivity by having to fly commercial when they could be flying direct on a private jet with an environment more conducive to getting things done? Private jets aren't cheap, but there's a certain point where they pay for themselves.

There's a security component too. Private jets are far more secure than commercial airliners are where you can't control who's in your environment. Do you really want your semi-famous, $80M/yr CEO flying with the unwashed masses? Hell no, you don't. Another certain large company HQed in STL that I worked for mandated that the CEO had to fly private, even on leisure time, for exactly that reason.


Our C-suite flies commercial and we have no corporate fleet. $12 billion company and very well known CEO in St. Louis and around the globe. They have looked at it but found that it isn't something they want to do. I fly with them every month from WN to DL etc. They fly like other employees within the company and doesn't bother them at all. Don't get me wrong. I'd love to see us fly them. Would be a great perk for me!
 
PhilMcCrackin
Posts: 317
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:54 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:40 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
The C-Suite has expanded in the past couple of decades and is far more than just a CEO and Senior VP's travel frequently as well. With that said, many companies don't have the revenue to justify private, but they will pay for business class.

My point is that businesses will support a non-stop flight on a major carrier between STL and a major international business market such as London.


Obviously, I wasn't insinuating that everyone flies private, although at the aforementioned company I worked for, they encouraged joint use of the jets if they were already going to a location where someone else needed to go. We also offset some of the cost of them by chartering them out on the weekends and when they weren't being used by the company.

TWA302 wrote:
$12 billion company and very well known CEO in St. Louis and around the globe.


Yeah, we were an $8Bish company when I was there and we had a handful of Challengers and a Global 5000 that was primarily used by the CEO. People think about them as extravagant luxuries, but they really are a business tool in a lot of respects. Especially if you're trying to travel to places that have limited air service.
 
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TVNWZ
Posts: 2268
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:14 pm

Bottom line: If these Multi Billion dollar companies thought the service was valuable and would use it to such a degree an airline could make a decent amount of money you would have the service. It appears STL business is not motivated enough to do that. I suspect-- that in the end--they believe a one hour flight to ORD is good enough.
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 305
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:40 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
Yeah, we were an $8Bish company when I was there and we had a handful of Challengers and a Global 5000 that was primarily used by the CEO. People think about them as extravagant luxuries, but they really are a business tool in a lot of respects. Especially if you're trying to travel to places that have limited air service.


This is very true. WalMart's flight dept. is a good case study. They can send a staff from their Bentonville HD to 2-3 states in a day, to relatively rural communities, to visit stores. If they were flying commercial the same trip could take a week or more.
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 305
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:41 pm

sorry duplicate post (site is acting strange)
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