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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 4:22 pm
by TWA302
On WN369 ECP-STL. Total of 30 people on the flight. Drove the wife down last week and now on the way back. ECP was dead as a doornail. REALLY creepy compared to what I saw in mid-March.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 4:57 pm
by BHMNONREV
Jshank83 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
I've never heard of a bundle with club access before - but something along those lines sounds like a smart move for the time being.


I have seen it offered, not often by itself though. Usually club access and a free bag or something. or club access and priority boarding. I agree, might as well try to sell club access while the amount of travelers is low.


Correct, normally offered with a buy up to Economy Plus or free bag. Was looking to book tickets in July to Cabo, E+ and Club Access offered for $119.00 per person. I would imagine Clubs are pretty empty right now..

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 4:04 am
by Jshank83
Sun Country for a cares act exemption at STL. So that means they won’t be running routes for awhile. Not sure what it means long term. PDX was one also so not surprising we got one since that was our summer route.

G4 got one for SPI
DL for Peoria.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 4:34 am
by symphonicpoet
OzarkD9S wrote:
Brett Snyder, aka The Cranky Flier is selling STL terminal overview T-Shirts on his site:

https://crankyconcierge.com/collections/airports?page=2

Some other cool airport options as well. I have no financial connection with the site, just thought I would share.

And yes, I ordered one.


Whoa doggie those Ts are expensive. Maybe you don't have a financial connection to the site yet, but . . . they ought to give you commissions.

And yes, I also ordered one.

In other news I had the strangest dream last night of hopping a war weary 747 from St. Louis to Chicago on a whim with a deceased friend of mine. Cold, snowy, late winter still clinging to the bones of plague. (So, early in the week, basically.) Covid not truly over yet, so flights cheap and largely empty. I think the airport was an odd mix of Midway and La Guardia. Some nice vintage '80s grime. Somehow we forgot to get off. (I was looking for something I'd mislaid.) Found out we were taxiing elsewhere and I was "Crap, I still have to clear customs!" . . . (Somewhere between half and two thirds of my lifetime flight legs have ended in passport control.) And then I realized Chicago is, in fact, still in the same country as St. Louis. Purely domestic. How novel! No big deal. Maybe more walking from the other gate. Was basically a darn good dream.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 11:56 am
by OzarkD9S
symphonicpoet wrote:

Whoa doggie those Ts are expensive. Maybe you don't have a financial connection to the site yet, but . . . they ought to give you commissions.

And yes, I also ordered one.

In other news I had the strangest dream last night of hopping a war weary 747 from St. Louis to Chicago on a whim with a deceased friend of mine. Cold, snowy, late winter still clinging to the bones of plague. (So, early in the week, basically.) Covid not truly over yet, so flights cheap and largely empty. I think the airport was an odd mix of Midway and La Guardia. Some nice vintage '80s grime. Somehow we forgot to get off. (I was looking for something I'd mislaid.) Found out we were taxiing elsewhere and I was "Crap, I still have to clear customs!" . . . (Somewhere between half and two thirds of my lifetime flight legs have ended in passport control.) And then I realized Chicago is, in fact, still in the same country as St. Louis. Purely domestic. How novel! No big deal. Maybe more walking from the other gate. Was basically a darn good dream.


Yeah, $30 was a little steep, but Cranky IS trying keep his business afloat without layoffs, so he's come up with a few interesting ways to generate cash. And being a big fan of his site, was glad to help in a small way.

Interesting dream, but for a season or two TWA did in fact operate STL-ORD-LHR on the 747 before they sold the LHR authorities to AA. Maybe your subconscious was taking you back to another time, hope you enjoyed your free vacation!

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 4:17 am
by symphonicpoet
^I think weird dreams are almost the norm these days. STL-ORD-LHR actually almost makes sense. Might as well originate at the big crew base, make a stop at the big O&D source, and then head along. TWA surely flew a lot of heavies out of STL at one time, and they had a bunch of routes like that starting in STL and passing through JFK. I can't imagine ORD was quite as key to their system, but you don't want to miss out on the Chicago to Europe traffic. I seem to recall there was nearly always a 74 parked on or around the Charlie pad back in the day. I miss seeing the big iron gliding across 170. Didn't get onto 70 through north St. Louis much then, but I bet it was a sight watching it settle as you drove towards the airport.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 1:30 pm
by TWA302
OzarkD9S wrote:
symphonicpoet wrote:

Whoa doggie those Ts are expensive. Maybe you don't have a financial connection to the site yet, but . . . they ought to give you commissions.

And yes, I also ordered one.

In other news I had the strangest dream last night of hopping a war weary 747 from St. Louis to Chicago on a whim with a deceased friend of mine. Cold, snowy, late winter still clinging to the bones of plague. (So, early in the week, basically.) Covid not truly over yet, so flights cheap and largely empty. I think the airport was an odd mix of Midway and La Guardia. Some nice vintage '80s grime. Somehow we forgot to get off. (I was looking for something I'd mislaid.) Found out we were taxiing elsewhere and I was "Crap, I still have to clear customs!" . . . (Somewhere between half and two thirds of my lifetime flight legs have ended in passport control.) And then I realized Chicago is, in fact, still in the same country as St. Louis. Purely domestic. How novel! No big deal. Maybe more walking from the other gate. Was basically a darn good dream.


Yeah, $30 was a little steep, but Cranky IS trying keep his business afloat without layoffs, so he's come up with a few interesting ways to generate cash. And being a big fan of his site, was glad to help in a small way.

Interesting dream, but for a season or two TWA did in fact operate STL-ORD-LHR on the 747 before they sold the LHR authorities to AA. Maybe your subconscious was taking you back to another time, hope you enjoyed your free vacation!


They sure did because I remember flying that 747 from ORD-STL as a kid one summer.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 2:36 pm
by Jshank83
Passenger numbers out for STL in April.

Down 95.9% on Month - Total 55,066
Down 39.6% on Year

Air Cargo up 1.3%

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... r-ATAR.pdf

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 3:16 pm
by TWA302
Jshank83 wrote:
Passenger numbers out for STL in April.

Down 95.9% on Month - Total 55,066
Down 39.6% on Year

Air Cargo up 1.3%

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... r-ATAR.pdf


Wow. 96%. That is staggering. I really thought that WN, even with as reduced as they were would have lowered that number. But now, having been on 3x flights in May I can see where this number is now. Flew to and from TUL over the weekend and we had 30 going, 26 returning.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 3:21 pm
by Jshank83
Also, apparently the public information manager at the airport Jeff Lea left to go to MSP. I wasn't aware of that. It will be interesting to see how open his replacement is with info. Jeff seemed like a good guy but he was really tight lipped with anything.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 5:52 pm
by kipfilet
kipfilet wrote:
UA claimed that they expected to have ~ same number of flights in the entire month of May 2020 as in a single day in May 2019. Extrapolating, that would be a reduction of around 96%.


Called it!

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 7:07 pm
by pmanni1
kipfilet wrote:
kipfilet wrote:
UA claimed that they expected to have ~ same number of flights in the entire month of May 2020 as in a single day in May 2019. Extrapolating, that would be a reduction of around 96%.


Called it!

Kind of unbelievable that they suspended DEN. Not even a single RJ. They handed WN this route on a silver platter.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 7:36 pm
by stlgph
Jshank83 wrote:
Also, apparently the public information manager at the airport Jeff Lea left to go to MSP. I wasn't aware of that. It will be interesting to see how open his replacement is with info. Jeff seemed like a good guy but he was really tight lipped with anything.


Position was posted 2-3 months ago, search went through the first stage or two but is currently suspended. All PR is probably going through the city administration channels at the moment who probably aren't prioritizing the airport so if you're looking for any good tidbits of information might have to do your own digging for the time being.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 8:24 pm
by Jshank83
[twoid][/twoid]
pmanni1 wrote:
kipfilet wrote:
kipfilet wrote:
UA claimed that they expected to have ~ same number of flights in the entire month of May 2020 as in a single day in May 2019. Extrapolating, that would be a reduction of around 96%.


Called it!

Kind of unbelievable that they suspended DEN. Not even a single RJ. They handed WN this route on a silver platter.

Shots fired at frontier! Haha.

UA only has been running 2 flights a day to ORD. That’s it. I was surprised there weren’t a few more. They just started back up EWR last week. So far that’s all they have schedule for June is those 3 flights a day.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 10:05 am
by pmanni1
Interesting to see what the other majors gave up to WN.

DL and AA gave up LGA
AA gave up LAX
UA gave up Houston
Both WN and DL stopped MSP - odd that there's no flights
Both WN and UA stopped SFO - but WN still does OAK and SJC

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 5:15 pm
by Jshank83
New privatization proposal.

For me personally it is hard to see how the math or timelines work out in the deal. Especially in the current state of travel.
____________________

A large union and NAACP branch plan to force a public vote that could revive an effort to privatize St. Louis Lambert International Airport.

The St. Louis-Kansas City Carpenters Regional Council and St. Louis city NAACP said they will work to gather some 22,000 signatures, forcing a Nov. 3 vote on an amendment to the city's charter that outlines a process to lease the airport. Sixty percent of voters would have to approve the measure.

The city, which owns Lambert, last year sought bids from companies interested in managing the airport — a move that, if completed, would have been a first for a major American airport. But Mayor Lyda Krewson in January ended the privatization process, which had drawn criticism over an arrangement in which conservative financier Rex Sinquefield paid the city's privatization advisors.

Firms from around the world expressed interest in a transaction. Through their proposals it became clear that the city, which can only receive about $6 million annually from Lambert and struggles with significant blight, could have netted up to $1.2 billion for non-airport purposes through privatizing airport operations.

Adolphus Pruitt, head of the city NAACP, said the city cannot afford to turn away from a project with such economic potential. Its finances, like all governments, have deteriorated amid the Covid-19 pandemic.

The new plan would require the city accept no less than $1.7 billion from an operator. That amount could include defeasance of the airport's roughly $600 million in debt, which would be the responsibility of the firm.

"Our proposal will transform St. Louis neighborhoods and provide opportunities for underserved St. Louis residents," Pruitt said Wednesday in a statement.

The drafting of the petition took six months, officials said. It envisions a very different privatization process.

Instead of allowing the city's aldermen to decide how to spend lease proceeds, it dictates that trusts be set up for various purposes. The "Police, Fire, and Safe Neighborhood Trust Fund," for example, would get 30% of proceeds, but not less than $300 million. Neighborhood development would get at least $200 million, plus $200 million for job training, $100 million for streets, $100 million for environmental cleanup, and the remainder for transit or other infrastructure.

It also envisions an operator making major capital improvements at Lambert, which a city-commissioned report has said could cost $141 million to $2 billion. The amendment says the "lessee alone" should use "commercially reasonable efforts" to upgrade Lambert's facilities so that they're in the top 10% of all large or medium hub U.S. airports, as graded by J.D. Power or a similar entity. And it addresses Lambert's airlines, putting caps on fees they can be charged and saying they should save $100 million under privatization, with 75% of that amount received in the first two years.

The approval process for privatizing Lambert would also change. If the amendment is approved, aldermen would have no say in picking an operator or executing a lease.

Instead, the amendment sets up an "evaluation committee" of five members: two appointed by Krewson, two by Aldermanic President Lewis Reed and one by Comptroller Darlene Green. Bids would be accepted by the committee within 30 days of the election, and it would certify the top team.

Then, Krewson, or whoever is mayor at the time, could execute the lease. Payments from an operator would have to come no later than April 10, 2021.

Under privatization, the city would still have an airport "oversight committee," with three of five members appointed by the mayor. It would oversee compliance of a lease, which must dictate that current airport workers be offered jobs with no pay cuts.

Stephanie Fleming, a spokeswoman for the union, said it would provide personal protective equipment for signature gatherers, and use only one pen and sheet of paper per household.

She said Nov. 3 — the same day as the presidential election — was chosen because the groups want to hear from the greatest number of St. Louisans.

The union will spend significantly on a "yes" campaign, said Executive Secretary-Treasurer Al Bond.

It will be "expensive," he said, "but we're ready to commit the money."

"Now's a great time to get this done because of how tragic this pandemic has been," Bond said. "It's going to create opportunities down the road."

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 6:40 pm
by Jshank83
Jshank83 wrote:
Sun Country for a cares act exemption at STL. So that means they won’t be running routes for awhile. Not sure what it means long term. PDX was one also so not surprising we got one since that was our summer route.

G4 got one for SPI
DL for Peoria.


Updated their schedule. Return pushed back a month to August.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:03 pm
by TWA302
Jshank83 wrote:
New privatization proposal.

For me personally it is hard to see how the math or timelines work out in the deal. Especially in the current state of travel.
____________________

A large union and NAACP branch plan to force a public vote that could revive an effort to privatize St. Louis Lambert International Airport.

The St. Louis-Kansas City Carpenters Regional Council and St. Louis city NAACP said they will work to gather some 22,000 signatures, forcing a Nov. 3 vote on an amendment to the city's charter that outlines a process to lease the airport. Sixty percent of voters would have to approve the measure.

The city, which owns Lambert, last year sought bids from companies interested in managing the airport — a move that, if completed, would have been a first for a major American airport. But Mayor Lyda Krewson in January ended the privatization process, which had drawn criticism over an arrangement in which conservative financier Rex Sinquefield paid the city's privatization advisors.

Firms from around the world expressed interest in a transaction. Through their proposals it became clear that the city, which can only receive about $6 million annually from Lambert and struggles with significant blight, could have netted up to $1.2 billion for non-airport purposes through privatizing airport operations.

Adolphus Pruitt, head of the city NAACP, said the city cannot afford to turn away from a project with such economic potential. Its finances, like all governments, have deteriorated amid the Covid-19 pandemic.

The new plan would require the city accept no less than $1.7 billion from an operator. That amount could include defeasance of the airport's roughly $600 million in debt, which would be the responsibility of the firm.

"Our proposal will transform St. Louis neighborhoods and provide opportunities for underserved St. Louis residents," Pruitt said Wednesday in a statement.

The drafting of the petition took six months, officials said. It envisions a very different privatization process.

Instead of allowing the city's aldermen to decide how to spend lease proceeds, it dictates that trusts be set up for various purposes. The "Police, Fire, and Safe Neighborhood Trust Fund," for example, would get 30% of proceeds, but not less than $300 million. Neighborhood development would get at least $200 million, plus $200 million for job training, $100 million for streets, $100 million for environmental cleanup, and the remainder for transit or other infrastructure.

It also envisions an operator making major capital improvements at Lambert, which a city-commissioned report has said could cost $141 million to $2 billion. The amendment says the "lessee alone" should use "commercially reasonable efforts" to upgrade Lambert's facilities so that they're in the top 10% of all large or medium hub U.S. airports, as graded by J.D. Power or a similar entity. And it addresses Lambert's airlines, putting caps on fees they can be charged and saying they should save $100 million under privatization, with 75% of that amount received in the first two years.

The approval process for privatizing Lambert would also change. If the amendment is approved, aldermen would have no say in picking an operator or executing a lease.

Instead, the amendment sets up an "evaluation committee" of five members: two appointed by Krewson, two by Aldermanic President Lewis Reed and one by Comptroller Darlene Green. Bids would be accepted by the committee within 30 days of the election, and it would certify the top team.

Then, Krewson, or whoever is mayor at the time, could execute the lease. Payments from an operator would have to come no later than April 10, 2021.

Under privatization, the city would still have an airport "oversight committee," with three of five members appointed by the mayor. It would oversee compliance of a lease, which must dictate that current airport workers be offered jobs with no pay cuts.

Stephanie Fleming, a spokeswoman for the union, said it would provide personal protective equipment for signature gatherers, and use only one pen and sheet of paper per household.

She said Nov. 3 — the same day as the presidential election — was chosen because the groups want to hear from the greatest number of St. Louisans.

The union will spend significantly on a "yes" campaign, said Executive Secretary-Treasurer Al Bond.

It will be "expensive," he said, "but we're ready to commit the money."

"Now's a great time to get this done because of how tragic this pandemic has been," Bond said. "It's going to create opportunities down the road."



What a joke. Can ANYONE tell me why the NAACP is even remotely involved in this scenario? It'll be voted down if it goes to vote.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:19 pm
by TWA302
Jshank83 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Sun Country for a cares act exemption at STL. So that means they won’t be running routes for awhile. Not sure what it means long term. PDX was one also so not surprising we got one since that was our summer route.

G4 got one for SPI
DL for Peoria.


Updated their schedule. Return pushed back a month to August.


I wouldn't be surprised if we see SY transition 100% to supporting Prime Air.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 12:03 am
by maps4ltd
Why the hell is a black advocacy organization dabbling in an airport privatization study?

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 2:55 am
by stlgph
NAACP believes Lambert only survives under city ownership and operationship with tax increases which will burden lower income residents, whom in St. Louis, are predominantly african-american.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 4:10 am
by Jshank83
stlgph wrote:
NAACP believes Lambert only survives under city ownership and operationship with tax increases which will burden lower income residents, whom in St. Louis, are predominantly african-american.


That is 100% untrue. An airport has to be self sustaining. That’s why the fees were so high on airlines after AA left. They had to make up the money by charging airlines. Which is why capping airlines fees in the proposal doesn’t make sense.

Maybe it’s best if these organizations that have no clue how airports work just stay out of it.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 1:12 pm
by Midwestindy
WN IND-STL added 2x daily

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 1:59 pm
by Jshank83
Midwestindy wrote:
WN IND-STL added 2x daily


NIce! Starting Nov 1. I would guess that means probably no Contour coming.

Also it looks like they added STL-IND and cut MDW-IND. So that is another flight they are moving down to us from MDW.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 2:05 pm
by TVNWZ
Jshank83 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
NAACP believes Lambert only survives under city ownership and operationship with tax increases which will burden lower income residents, whom in St. Louis, are predominantly african-american.


That is 100% untrue. An airport has to be self sustaining. That’s why the fees were so high on airlines after AA left. They had to make up the money by charging airlines. Which is why capping airlines fees in the proposal doesn’t make sense.

Maybe it’s best if these organizations that have no clue how airports work just stay out of it.


I don’t see any “white” plan for the airport. Maybe we should have more plans by unions and African American groups.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 3:46 pm
by Jshank83
TVNWZ wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
NAACP believes Lambert only survives under city ownership and operationship with tax increases which will burden lower income residents, whom in St. Louis, are predominantly african-american.


That is 100% untrue. An airport has to be self sustaining. That’s why the fees were so high on airlines after AA left. They had to make up the money by charging airlines. Which is why capping airlines fees in the proposal doesn’t make sense.

Maybe it’s best if these organizations that have no clue how airports work just stay out of it.


I don’t see any “white” plan for the airport. Maybe we should have more plans by unions and African American groups.


If they know how to run an airport sure. If they have no clue and are making proposals that have no chance in happening and/or make no sense then no.

I like some of the ideas behind it but if any organization really says " Lambert only survives under city ownership and operationship with tax increases which will burden lower income residents, whom in St. Louis, are predominantly african-american." Then that is an outright lie to try to get votes for it or they obviously have no clue how the airport structure works.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 3:50 pm
by Jshank83
YoY changes to the November schedule (non holiday weeks)

Mon-fri - 122 (+10)
Sat - 67 (+1)
Sun- 126 (+9)
Total - 803 (+60)

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Fri May 29, 2020 1:40 am
by TVNWZ
Jshank83 wrote:

I like some of the ideas behind it but if any organization really says " Lambert only survives under city ownership and operationship with tax increases which will burden lower income residents, whom in St. Louis, are predominantly african-american." Then that is an outright lie to try to get votes for it or they obviously have no clue how the airport structure works.


They actually said the opposite..

“There were 18 (teams of) companies from around the world that wanted to pursue this opportunity,” Al Bond, executive secretary-treasurer of the St. Louis-Kansas City Carpenters Regional Council, said at a news conference at council offices on Hampton Avenue. “We want just simply to see the plans.”

Bond and Adolphus Pruitt, president of the city NAACP chapter, said leasing the airport is the only way to generate enough of a revenue stream to significantly improve Lambert and to address other needs of city residents without a tax increase.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... ef5b9.html

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Fri May 29, 2020 1:59 am
by Midwestindy
Anyone have any idea why there has been no reporting on IND-STL from WN, IND, or STL? Seems rather odd, or does it have something to do with Contour situation

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Fri May 29, 2020 2:54 am
by Jshank83
TVNWZ wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

I like some of the ideas behind it but if any organization really says " Lambert only survives under city ownership and operationship with tax increases which will burden lower income residents, whom in St. Louis, are predominantly african-american." Then that is an outright lie to try to get votes for it or they obviously have no clue how the airport structure works.


They actually said the opposite..

“There were 18 (teams of) companies from around the world that wanted to pursue this opportunity,” Al Bond, executive secretary-treasurer of the St. Louis-Kansas City Carpenters Regional Council, said at a news conference at council offices on Hampton Avenue. “We want just simply to see the plans.”

Bond and Adolphus Pruitt, president of the city NAACP chapter, said leasing the airport is the only way to generate enough of a revenue stream to significantly improve Lambert and to address other needs of city residents without a tax increase.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... ef5b9.html



That makes a lot more sense.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Fri May 29, 2020 2:56 am
by Jshank83
Midwestindy wrote:
Anyone have any idea why there has been no reporting on IND-STL from WN, IND, or STL? Seems rather odd, or does it have something to do with Contour situation


I really didn’t understand why it wasn’t in the release. From a WN perspective it shouldn’t matter. I am not sure why the airports haven’t said anything but STL isn’t always the speediest to get anything out.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:21 pm
by pmanni1
Looks like 7/6 is a big day for UA to make a comeback at STL.
DEN coming back at 6X daily
SFO 2X daily
IAH 5X daily
IAD 3X daily

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:28 pm
by pmanni1
ORD never was suspended but will be back up to 8X daily and EWR was down to 1X daily and will be 5X daily.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:39 pm
by T18
Makes sense, the G7 STL-ORD flights has been full or overbooked (at the 70% cap for viral safety) most days it seems.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:07 pm
by pmanni1
T18 wrote:
Makes sense, the G7 STL-ORD flights has been full or overbooked (at the 70% cap for viral safety) most days it seems.

I thought they would come back as a much smaller presence. Not the case!

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:44 pm
by Midwestindy
pmanni1 wrote:
T18 wrote:
Makes sense, the G7 STL-ORD flights has been full or overbooked (at the 70% cap for viral safety) most days it seems.

I thought they would come back as a much smaller presence. Not the case!


July schedule has not been updated, UA is planning on running 25% of capacity for July

Out of the US3 only DL has released its July schedule

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:48 pm
by tphuang
pmanni1 wrote:
Looks like 7/6 is a big day for UA to make a comeback at STL.
DEN coming back at 6X daily
SFO 2X daily
IAH 5X daily
IAD 3X daily


Has there been reduction loaded in? I still see the pre-COVID schedule in there for July.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:54 pm
by BHMNONREV
pmanni1 wrote:
Looks like 7/6 is a big day for UA to make a comeback at STL.
DEN coming back at 6X daily
SFO 2X daily
IAH 5X daily
IAD 3X daily


With mainline upgauges for DEN (1 each) and EWR (2 each), daily seat counts up considerably over pre-COVID

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:57 pm
by Jshank83
BHMNONREV wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
Looks like 7/6 is a big day for UA to make a comeback at STL.
DEN coming back at 6X daily
SFO 2X daily
IAH 5X daily
IAD 3X daily


With mainline upgauges for DEN (1 each) and EWR (2 each), daily seat counts up considerably over pre-COVID


As others mentioned, this is still the pre covid schedule. I think at one point they even had 3 mainlines to EWR scheduled.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:58 pm
by pmanni1
tphuang wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
Looks like 7/6 is a big day for UA to make a comeback at STL.
DEN coming back at 6X daily
SFO 2X daily
IAH 5X daily
IAD 3X daily


Has there been reduction loaded in? I still see the pre-COVID schedule in there for July.

I don't know. All of these flights are for sale. Would be odd to sell tickets on all of these flights that don't really exist.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:08 pm
by pmanni1
Jshank83 wrote:
BHMNONREV wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
Looks like 7/6 is a big day for UA to make a comeback at STL.
DEN coming back at 6X daily
SFO 2X daily
IAH 5X daily
IAD 3X daily


With mainline upgauges for DEN (1 each) and EWR (2 each), daily seat counts up considerably over pre-COVID


As others mentioned, this is still the pre covid schedule. I think at one point they even had 3 mainlines to EWR scheduled.

Why would they advertise and allow you to buy tickets for flights that don't really exist?

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:17 pm
by Midwestindy
pmanni1 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
BHMNONREV wrote:

With mainline upgauges for DEN (1 each) and EWR (2 each), daily seat counts up considerably over pre-COVID


As others mentioned, this is still the pre covid schedule. I think at one point they even had 3 mainlines to EWR scheduled.

Why would they advertise and allow you to buy tickets for flights that don't really exist?


https://skift.com/2020/05/26/how-airlin ... -take-off/

"A customer who searches the airline’s website and sees the breadth of flights might think United expects a miraculous recovery by mid-summer. That’s not happening, as United already has told investors it is cutting 75 percent of the July schedule. United is just taking some time to decide what will stay and what will go."

"Instead, for much of July, United has been selling nine flights, giving customers the illusion of choice. The actual schedule is expected to be slimmer, closer to the three flights the airline is operating through most of June.

Domestically, in July, August and beyond, we’re selling our full schedule,”

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:33 pm
by Jshank83
Midwestindy wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

As others mentioned, this is still the pre covid schedule. I think at one point they even had 3 mainlines to EWR scheduled.

Why would they advertise and allow you to buy tickets for flights that don't really exist?


https://skift.com/2020/05/26/how-airlin ... -take-off/

"A customer who searches the airline’s website and sees the breadth of flights might think United expects a miraculous recovery by mid-summer. That’s not happening, as United already has told investors it is cutting 75 percent of the July schedule. United is just taking some time to decide what will stay and what will go."

"Instead, for much of July, United has been selling nine flights, giving customers the illusion of choice. The actual schedule is expected to be slimmer, closer to the three flights the airline is operating through most of June.

Domestically, in July, August and beyond, we’re selling our full schedule,”


Just like how WN was selling a full schedule when they knew due to the MAX it would probably have to be pulled back for the last year. It is easier to have too much and consolidate then add in more later.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:36 pm
by stlgph
Same thing kinda sorta with Delta in Indianapolis with next March/April's schedules.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:35 pm
by dcaproducer
It's difficult to look more than a few weeks out for flights right now. As a business traveler who flies Delta, DL has been waiting to make schedule cuts. The safest move is to book at flight only a couple of weeks out if you want a higher chance of that flight going out on schedule.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:54 pm
by Jshank83
dcaproducer wrote:
It's difficult to look more than a few weeks out for flights right now. As a business traveler who flies Delta, DL has been waiting to make schedule cuts. The safest move is to book at flight only a couple of weeks out if you want a higher chance of that flight going out on schedule.


One nice thing with all the schedule changes a couple weeks out is that if you picked a flight based on cost but maybe not the time your really want (assuming you have flexibility), if they cancel your flight you usually can switch to the one you wanted in the first place. I am taking a trip in 2 weeks and we had this situation. Original flight was okay but when it got canceled it freed us up to pick any fight we wanted without an up-charge (better time/connecting point/going from flight with a connection to nonstop/etc). This also assumes things aren't cut back so far that you only one or two options.

Also, yesterday I decided to change a flight date (flight had not been canceled) and Southwest let me change for free even though the new flight actually costed more. So that was nice of them, they didn't have to do that. Southwest twitter usually is really good about giving changes and things without charging more depending on the situation.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:32 pm
by Jshank83
BLV-SAV still scheduled to start on Saturday.

Allegiant scheduled to run 30 flights a week across 10 destinations in June

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:08 pm
by dcaproducer
Jshank83 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
It's difficult to look more than a few weeks out for flights right now. As a business traveler who flies Delta, DL has been waiting to make schedule cuts. The safest move is to book at flight only a couple of weeks out if you want a higher chance of that flight going out on schedule.


One nice thing with all the schedule changes a couple weeks out is that if you picked a flight based on cost but maybe not the time your really want (assuming you have flexibility), if they cancel your flight you usually can switch to the one you wanted in the first place. I am taking a trip in 2 weeks and we had this situation. Original flight was okay but when it got canceled it freed us up to pick any fight we wanted without an up-charge (better time/connecting point/going from flight with a connection to nonstop/etc). This also assumes things aren't cut back so far that you only one or two options.

Also, yesterday I decided to change a flight date (flight had not been canceled) and Southwest let me change for free even though the new flight actually costed more. So that was nice of them, they didn't have to do that. Southwest twitter usually is really good about giving changes and things without charging more depending on the situation.


Agreed. If you have flexibility that works.
Unfortunately on the business travel side this isn't always the case. Now with that said, I was looking at DL tickets DCA-LAX and found first class tickets for $650-700 RT. That's crazy.

I think STL is fortunate with WN because the level of service will bounce back faster with more options.

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:14 pm
by Jshank83
LF for Feb at STL/BLV

Last month with good ones, although Feb never is all that great anyway.

Above 90%

Southwest - MCO/SMF/SEA/
Allegiant - SFB

Full Spreadsheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:44 pm
by Jshank83
Sun Country extended their schedule for Winter/Spring 2021. RSW is back on it. TPA is not. Not surprising if you look at the loads. RSW were pretty good TPA not so much.

Also the Route Map has been updated and our line to TPA is gone.