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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:39 pm

T18 wrote:
By the way anyone who can't read the above post dispatch article and gets squiggles for letters, just copy and paste that into a word processor and like magic it become legible.


Yeah, that or refresh the browser, when text pops up stop the browser by hitting the X in chrome toolbar and presto! :-)
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:10 am

AS IND-STL is back starting July 2nd-31st, should nearly bridge the gap til WN starts
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
Jshank83
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Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:43 am

This entire privatization ploy gets crazier every day.

First it’s back after it was dead. Then it turns out Rex can still get paid back if they rush out the next proposal. Spencer wants it written out of the next deal and Reed says this:
Reed said the consultants deserved to be repaid if a lease deal is worked out.

What a load of bull. This entire thing is being rushed so that Rex can be paid back for his failed attempt. I don’t think there is anyway it gets past the voters but for Reed to even say that is crazy. Why would you WANT to pay out money from the cities coffers if you didn’t need to.

Just absolutely blows my mind.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... ssion=true
 
PhilMcCrackin
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:50 am

I really don't miss the dysfunction of the city of STL.
 
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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:20 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
This entire privatization ploy gets crazier every day.

First it’s back after it was dead. Then it turns out Rex can still get paid back if they rush out the next proposal. Spencer wants it written out of the next deal and Reed says this:
Reed said the consultants deserved to be repaid if a lease deal is worked out.

What a load of bull. This entire thing is being rushed so that Rex can be paid back for his failed attempt. I don’t think there is anyway it gets past the voters but for Reed to even say that is crazy. Why would you WANT to pay out money from the cities coffers if you didn’t need to.

Just absolutely blows my mind.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... ssion=true


When you have two of the city's worst politicians saying this thing is a complete scam, you KNOW it is. Green and Spencer are snakes and Reed is a complete slug. I wouldn't be surprised if later after this is over someone finds that he's been cooking the books that financially benefit himself.
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:01 pm

Covid will kill privatization for now.
 
Jshank83
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Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:26 am

May numbers are out.

Down 89% on the month
Down 51% on the year

Cargo up 3.6% on month
up 11% on year

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... y-ATAR.pdf
 
bretonrlong
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:18 pm

Upcoming WN restarts:

June 28
PHL, RDU

July 5
DTW, MSP
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3404
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:52 am

This will just make you say what if...

______________________________
Vasu Raja, Senior Vice President of planning at AA had an interview with Plane Business Banter. From the PlaneBusiness Banter interview with Vasu

PBB: Then there was all the debt. All the ill-will from the near-bankrupty in 2003. Concessions.

Vasu: Right. It had so much debt and all this other stuff. And what it did was – all of this eroded everybody’s will. It eroded the will of the frontline team, of management, of investors, everybody.
I’ve always thought that if we could go back in time at AMR, the point I would go back to would be 2003. Whenever the airline got out of restructuring but after the time Carty left.
If I could tell [CEO] Gerard [Arpey] anything – I’d tell him, "Grow the damn airline."
Because, at that point in time, AMR had an advantage over all of these other guys – because they were all going to hurt their employees as they took them through bankruptcies and things like that.
But the only way to do that was to NOT shrink. Grow at DFW. Don’t shut down St. Louis.

PBB: St. Louis. That was so poorly handled.

Vasu: Let me tell you something – St. Louis should have been and could have been the Charlotte of the Midwest for AMR. Hyper-peak St. Louis. When St. Louis was hot, that show was bigger than Chicago today for American Airlines. Think about that, right?
We should have gone the other way. When everyone else is shutting it all down, go.

Full text:
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/amer ... rview.html
 
BNAMealer
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Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:12 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
This will just make you say what if...

______________________________
Vasu Raja, Senior Vice President of planning at AA had an interview with Plane Business Banter. From the PlaneBusiness Banter interview with Vasu

PBB: Then there was all the debt. All the ill-will from the near-bankrupty in 2003. Concessions.

Vasu: Right. It had so much debt and all this other stuff. And what it did was – all of this eroded everybody’s will. It eroded the will of the frontline team, of management, of investors, everybody.
I’ve always thought that if we could go back in time at AMR, the point I would go back to would be 2003. Whenever the airline got out of restructuring but after the time Carty left.
If I could tell [CEO] Gerard [Arpey] anything – I’d tell him, "Grow the damn airline."
Because, at that point in time, AMR had an advantage over all of these other guys – because they were all going to hurt their employees as they took them through bankruptcies and things like that.
But the only way to do that was to NOT shrink. Grow at DFW. Don’t shut down St. Louis.

PBB: St. Louis. That was so poorly handled.

Vasu: Let me tell you something – St. Louis should have been and could have been the Charlotte of the Midwest for AMR. Hyper-peak St. Louis. When St. Louis was hot, that show was bigger than Chicago today for American Airlines. Think about that, right?
We should have gone the other way. When everyone else is shutting it all down, go.

Full text:
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/amer ... rview.html


Hmm, that is really interesting. Would they have closed up shop at ORD in favor of STL?

This would’ve significantly altered the balance of power of the US3 for sure.

It really is a shame AA didn’t keep and rebuild STL. I’d rather them have a hub to themselves rather than split ORD three ways with UA/WN.
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:38 pm

20/20 hindsight.
 
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TWA302
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:17 am

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:45 am

Jshank83 wrote:
This will just make you say what if...

______________________________
Vasu Raja, Senior Vice President of planning at AA had an interview with Plane Business Banter. From the PlaneBusiness Banter interview with Vasu

PBB: Then there was all the debt. All the ill-will from the near-bankrupty in 2003. Concessions.

Vasu: Right. It had so much debt and all this other stuff. And what it did was – all of this eroded everybody’s will. It eroded the will of the frontline team, of management, of investors, everybody.
I’ve always thought that if we could go back in time at AMR, the point I would go back to would be 2003. Whenever the airline got out of restructuring but after the time Carty left.
If I could tell [CEO] Gerard [Arpey] anything – I’d tell him, "Grow the damn airline."
Because, at that point in time, AMR had an advantage over all of these other guys – because they were all going to hurt their employees as they took them through bankruptcies and things like that.
But the only way to do that was to NOT shrink. Grow at DFW. Don’t shut down St. Louis.

PBB: St. Louis. That was so poorly handled.

Vasu: Let me tell you something – St. Louis should have been and could have been the Charlotte of the Midwest for AMR. Hyper-peak St. Louis. When St. Louis was hot, that show was bigger than Chicago today for American Airlines. Think about that, right?
We should have gone the other way. When everyone else is shutting it all down, go.

Full text:
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/amer ... rview.html



What's that old saying? "Hindsight is...." :-)
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3404
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:35 am

I guess I hadn’t been paying attention but WN added a bunch more flights in this week. Ran 94 today (Monday) If I counted right. 77% of original pre COVID.

Included
2x to PDX/SLC/SMF/SJC
MDW back to 8X
 
jplatts
Posts: 3460
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:33 am

BNAMealer wrote:
Hmm, that is really interesting. Would they have closed up shop at ORD in favor of STL?

This would’ve significantly altered the balance of power of the US3 for sure.

It really is a shame AA didn’t keep and rebuild STL. I’d rather them have a hub to themselves rather than split ORD three ways with UA/WN.


According to WN route maps from 1996 and 1998 (which can be found at https://www.flickr.com/photos/erussell1984/29263094912 and https://www.flickr.com/photos/erussell1984/32253925493), WN served ABQ, BWI, BHM, MDW, CLE, CMH, DTW, HOU, IND, MCI, LIT, SDF, OKC, OMA, MCO, PHX, SLC, TPA, and TUL nonstop from STL in the late 1990's, and TW was still around in the late 1990's.

Reasons why AA kept its ORD hub include
(a) AA already having a hub at ORD prior to AA acquiring TW,
(b) AA having nonstop service out of ORD to some regional destinations in the Midwest, Northeast, and Canada that aren't served nonstop from DFW,
(c) AA connecting passengers onto AA, BA, CX, AY, IB, JL, and QF long-haul international flights at ORD,
(d) AA already having an established frequent flyer base in the Chicago market, and
(e) AA having some corporate contracts in the Chicago area.

In addition to Chicago, the Baltimore/DC, Denver, Houston, Greater Los Angeles, and San Francisco Bay Area markets also have both an UA hub and WN focus city, with UA hubs at IAD, DEN, IAH, LAX, and SFO and WN focus cities at BWI, DEN, HOU, LAX, OAK, and SJC. AA also has hubs at LAX and DCA, which are in markets with both an UA hub and WN focus city, but AA inherited its DCA hub through the AA-US merger.
 
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OzarkD9S
Posts: 5593
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:05 pm

jplatts wrote:

According to WN route maps from 1996 and 1998 (which can be found at https://www.flickr.com/photos/erussell1984/29263094912 and https://www.flickr.com/photos/erussell1984/32253925493), WN served ABQ, BWI, BHM, MDW, CLE, CMH, DTW, HOU, IND, MCI, LIT, SDF, OKC, OMA, MCO, PHX, SLC, TPA, and TUL nonstop from STL in the late 1990's, and TW was still around in the late 1990's.

Reasons why AA kept its ORD hub include
(a) AA already having a hub at ORD prior to AA acquiring TW,
(b) AA having nonstop service out of ORD to some regional destinations in the Midwest, Northeast, and Canada that aren't served nonstop from DFW,
(c) AA connecting passengers onto AA, BA, CX, AY, IB, JL, and QF long-haul international flights at ORD,
(d) AA already having an established frequent flyer base in the Chicago market, and
(e) AA having some corporate contracts in the Chicago area.

In addition to Chicago, the Baltimore/DC, Denver, Houston, Greater Los Angeles, and San Francisco Bay Area markets also have both an UA hub and WN focus city, with UA hubs at IAD, DEN, IAH, LAX, and SFO and WN focus cities at BWI, DEN, HOU, LAX, OAK, and SJC. AA also has hubs at LAX and DCA, which are in markets with both an UA hub and WN focus city, but AA inherited its DCA hub through the AA-US merger.


You spent quite a bit of time typing out what 99.97% of us already know.
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
pmanni1
Posts: 235
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:17 am

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:52 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
I guess I hadn’t been paying attention but WN added a bunch more flights in this week. Ran 94 today (Monday) If I counted right. 77% of original pre COVID.

Included
2x to PDX/SLC/SMF/SJC
MDW back to 8X


Do you know why they are scheduling the 2 PDX flights only a half hour or hour apart? This week the flights depart at 11:25am and 12:35pm and then next week they go 11:25am and 12noon. Odd!!
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3404
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:36 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
I guess I hadn’t been paying attention but WN added a bunch more flights in this week. Ran 94 today (Monday) If I counted right. 77% of original pre COVID.

Included
2x to PDX/SLC/SMF/SJC
MDW back to 8X


Do you know why they are scheduling the 2 PDX flights only a half hour or hour apart? This week the flights depart at 11:25am and 12:35pm and then next week they go 11:25am and 12noon. Odd!!


Might be that the original flight went over the max they could hold so they added a 2nd flight for overflow and didn't want to move peoples flights a bunch/keep connections together. I have seen other added flights that way also. I think one of the florida flights maybe TPA was running like that previously also.
 
atrude777
Posts: 4376
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:50 pm

United announced a new August schedule...

Specifically mentioned the CR5 will be flying Newark to STL.

I am in SHARES (UA's reservation system) and they haven't updated it yet as I am still seeing SFO, and Mainline flights.

Nothing updated yet on UA's Website either!

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
pmanni1
Posts: 235
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:17 am

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:05 pm

atrude777 wrote:
United announced a new August schedule...

Specifically mentioned the CR5 will be flying Newark to STL.

I am in SHARES (UA's reservation system) and they haven't updated it yet as I am still seeing SFO, and Mainline flights.

Nothing updated yet on UA's Website either!

Alex

August schedule is up and SFO is not back yet. 17 daily flights:
DEN 4X
ORD 5X
IAH 3X
IAD 2X
EWR 3X
 
atrude777
Posts: 4376
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:00 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
August schedule is up and SFO is not back yet. 17 daily flights:
DEN 4X
ORD 5X
IAH 3X
IAD 2X
EWR 3X


They are now! Nice little increase, especially compared to when we were down to only 2 daily during the COVID.

Using the date of August 10th, 2020 (Monday)

STL-EWR: All 3 Flights are CR5. Least there's a consistency now on the EWR Flight. Downgrade in seats from the 175, but better then the 50 Seaters without F Class. I think this will do well!

STL-DEN: 3 Flights are E175 , 1 is CR7. (All SkyWest)

STL-ORD: 4 Flights are CR5, and the 5th is E175

STL-IAH: All 3 flights are E175 (Consistency and more F Class Flights to that route)

STL-IAD: 1 is a E170, and the other a CR7. More F Class back to the route.

Could we finally be seeing the decline of 50 seaters without F Class in and out of STL?! I know we are still in a COVID Situation, but hopefully having more F Options out of STL will get traffic going!

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:44 pm

Counting 99 WN flights for M/Th/F in the week of July 13. Guessing at some point we get over 100 a day again this month.
 
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TWA302
Posts: 689
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:17 am

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:31 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Counting 99 WN flights for M/Th/F in the week of July 13. Guessing at some point we get over 100 a day again this month.

Let’s hope it holds up.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3404
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:22 pm

July Frequency update (based on week of July 13)

Flights per week (Flights per week June 2020) Flights per week July 2019
WN 680 (491) 813
AA 139 (90) 257
DL 77 (27) 204
UA 67 (21) 203
G4 37 (30) 32
AS 14 (7) 21
F9 10 (8) 38
SY 2 (2) 6

Total STL 1133 (790) 1792

Notes:

WN peaks at 99 flights a day.
AS IND leg is back
All stations are back for DL except CVG, UA except SFO, AA except LAX, WN except CHS/BDL/MSY/SAT/SFO.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 295
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:41 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
July Frequency update (based on week of July 13)

Flights per week (Flights per week June 2020) Flights per week July 2019
WN 680 (491) 813
AA 139 (90) 257
DL 77 (27) 204
UA 67 (21) 203
G4 37 (30) 32
AS 14 (7) 21
F9 10 (8) 38
SY 2 (2) 6

Total STL 1133 (790) 1792

Notes:

WN peaks at 99 flights a day.
AS IND leg is back
All stations are back for DL except CVG, UA except SFO, AA except LAX, WN except CHS/BDL/MSY/SAT/SFO.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing


Is G4 filling their planes? If they are, BLV may not be down all that much in July from 2019.
I think G4's customer base (value vacation travelers) is going to really help them this summer.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3404
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:58 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
July Frequency update (based on week of July 13)

Flights per week (Flights per week June 2020) Flights per week July 2019
WN 680 (491) 813
AA 139 (90) 257
DL 77 (27) 204
UA 67 (21) 203
G4 37 (30) 32
AS 14 (7) 21
F9 10 (8) 38
SY 2 (2) 6

Total STL 1133 (790) 1792

Notes:

WN peaks at 99 flights a day.
AS IND leg is back
All stations are back for DL except CVG, UA except SFO, AA except LAX, WN except CHS/BDL/MSY/SAT/SFO.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing


Is G4 filling their planes? If they are, BLV may not be down all that much in July from 2019.
I think G4's customer base (value vacation travelers) is going to really help them this summer.


I am pretty sure they aren’t blocking seats. If they are it isn’t more than 15%.

I would agree. Florida is easy pickings. Will be curious to see if the jump in cases there slows anyone down though.

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