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San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:04 pm

Welcome to the San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread 2020. Please continue your discussion and to post your updates here.

Link to previous thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411847
 
jplatts
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:09 am

While AA is currently the only airline serving CLT nonstop from SFO, UA adding SFO-CLT nonstop service is a possibility with
(a) banking industry ties between SFO and CLT,
(b) 18% of passengers traveling between SFO and CLT were connecting on airlines other than AA in Q2 2019,
(c) UA FF's in the San Francisco Bay Area who prefer to fly on UA over AA,
(d) carriers other than AA such as UA, WN, or AS being the airline of choice for majority of travelers in the San Francisco Bay Area,
(e) San Francisco-based Wells Fargo having a significant presence in Charlotte,
(f) CLT being the largest market in the 50 states that UA doesn't currently serve nonstop from SFO,
and
(g) UA being able to offer international connections to Asia, Australia, and New Zealand from CLT through SFO (and vice versa) on UA and Star Alliance Asia-Pacific partners if UA adds SFO-CLT nonstop service.

I have also previously mentioned UA also adding SFO-MKE nonstop service with the lack of daily nonstop service to MKE from the San Francisco Bay area being a huge hole with WN reducing SFO-MKE nonstop service to Saturday-only in Summer 2020. Posts regarding UA possibly adding SFO-MKE nonstop service can be found at https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411813&start=100#p21853265 and https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411813&start=100#p21853565.

In addition to SFO-CLT and SFO-MKE, UA could also add nonstop service to ALB, BUF, CHS, DSM, ELP, JAX, LIT, SDF, MEM, ORF, RIC, and TUL out of SFO with these destinations being top domestic destinations that UA doesn't currently serve nonstop from SFO.
 
jplatts
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:22 am

WN is going to be discontinuing SFO-DAL nonstop service tomorrow, but WN will still serve DAL nonstop from OAK and SJC in the San Francisco Bay Area after it discontinues SFO-DAL nonstop service.
 
HanCholo
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:49 am

jplatts wrote:
While AA is currently the only airline serving CLT nonstop from SFO, UA adding SFO-CLT nonstop service is a possibility with
(a) banking industry ties between SFO and CLT,
(b) 18% of passengers traveling between SFO and CLT were connecting on airlines other than AA in Q2 2019,
(c) UA FF's in the San Francisco Bay Area who prefer to fly on UA over AA,
(d) carriers other than AA such as UA, WN, or AS being the airline of choice for majority of travelers in the San Francisco Bay Area,
(e) San Francisco-based Wells Fargo having a significant presence in Charlotte,
(f) CLT being the largest market in the 50 states that UA doesn't currently serve nonstop from SFO,
and
(g) UA being able to offer international connections to Asia, Australia, and New Zealand from CLT through SFO (and vice versa) on UA and Star Alliance Asia-Pacific partners if UA adds SFO-CLT nonstop service.

I have also previously mentioned UA also adding SFO-MKE nonstop service with the lack of daily nonstop service to MKE from the San Francisco Bay area being a huge hole with WN reducing SFO-MKE nonstop service to Saturday-only in Summer 2020. Posts regarding UA possibly adding SFO-MKE nonstop service can be found at https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411813&start=100#p21853265 and https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411813&start=100#p21853565.

In addition to SFO-CLT and SFO-MKE, UA could also add nonstop service to ALB, BUF, CHS, DSM, ELP, JAX, LIT, SDF, MEM, ORF, RIC, and TUL out of SFO with these destinations being top domestic destinations that UA doesn't currently serve nonstop from SFO.


ELP airport and the city are rumored to be pushing for a nonstop from ELP to SFO on UA. We'll see if it does happen. Hopefully service does get started.
 
Buffalomatt1027
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:24 pm

jplatts wrote:
While AA is currently the only airline serving CLT nonstop from SFO, UA adding SFO-CLT nonstop service is a possibility with
(a) banking industry ties between SFO and CLT,
(b) 18% of passengers traveling between SFO and CLT were connecting on airlines other than AA in Q2 2019,
(c) UA FF's in the San Francisco Bay Area who prefer to fly on UA over AA,
(d) carriers other than AA such as UA, WN, or AS being the airline of choice for majority of travelers in the San Francisco Bay Area,
(e) San Francisco-based Wells Fargo having a significant presence in Charlotte,
(f) CLT being the largest market in the 50 states that UA doesn't currently serve nonstop from SFO,
and
(g) UA being able to offer international connections to Asia, Australia, and New Zealand from CLT through SFO (and vice versa) on UA and Star Alliance Asia-Pacific partners if UA adds SFO-CLT nonstop service.

I have also previously mentioned UA also adding SFO-MKE nonstop service with the lack of daily nonstop service to MKE from the San Francisco Bay area being a huge hole with WN reducing SFO-MKE nonstop service to Saturday-only in Summer 2020. Posts regarding UA possibly adding SFO-MKE nonstop service can be found at https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411813&start=100#p21853265 and https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411813&start=100#p21853565.

In addition to SFO-CLT and SFO-MKE, UA could also add nonstop service to ALB, BUF, CHS, DSM, ELP, JAX, LIT, SDF, MEM, ORF, RIC, and TUL out of SFO with these destinations being top domestic destinations that UA doesn't currently serve nonstop from SFO.


BUF has been pushing for SFO service but nothing so far. UA does not expand direct routes out of BNIA.
 
babastud
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:37 pm

CLT-SFO is long overdue and would provide some prime connections on UA pacific. If you UA can due between 1.5-3x daily to RDU daily, they can sustain a one daily CLT easy!
 
AirFiero
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:45 pm

I’m hoping for a return of SJC-CLT on AA, a route I’d occasionally use.
 
dfwjim1
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:06 pm

babastud wrote:
CLT-SFO is long overdue and would provide some prime connections on UA pacific. If you UA can due between 1.5-3x daily to RDU daily, they can sustain a one daily CLT easy!


Every few months someone on this forum mentions that UA is missing out on not serving CLT from SFO. If this route was so great for UA they would have served it long ago.
 
x1234
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:47 pm

There is some banking and tech traffic between SFO & CLT but UA has other fish to fry. Regarding onward connections via SFO to Asia/Australia, well AA has LAX & DFW for that.
 
BayAreaFlyer
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:34 am

In the eye of 2020, UA will be returning to OAK after a seven-year absence in the East Bay, resuming connections to DEN and IAD.

More developments out of OAK, a new Asian carrier will be announced this year.
 
ucdtim17
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:59 pm

BayAreaFlyer wrote:
In the eye of 2020, UA will be returning to OAK after a seven-year absence in the East Bay, resuming connections to DEN and IAD.

More developments out of OAK, a new Asian carrier will be announced this year.


IAD seems an odd add before ORD/EWR. DEN most likely. From SJC, it's DEN/ORD/IAH.
 
ucdtim17
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:14 pm

New route announcement at OAK today. Presumably not the UA return as that would be a bigger deal.
 
Ishrion
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:17 pm

ucdtim17 wrote:
New route announcement at OAK today. Presumably not the UA return as that would be a bigger deal.


I initially thought it could be JetBlue to LGB to time with their announcement, but I guess JetBlue already serves the route.
 
FSDan
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:26 pm

jplatts wrote:
In addition to SFO-CLT and SFO-MKE, UA could also add nonstop service to ALB, BUF, CHS, DSM, ELP, JAX, LIT, SDF, MEM, ORF, RIC, and TUL out of SFO with these destinations being top domestic destinations that UA doesn't currently serve nonstop from SFO.


I could certainly see UA starting SFO-CLT given the size of the market and the limited competition.

As for those other destinations, I don't imagine any of them are very high on the list for UA at a very gate constrained airport that's even maybe approaching slot controls. Maybe DSM (given that MSN seems to be working well), maybe ELP or even MEM, but I don't see any of those other routes coming to fruition anytime soon.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
anshabhi
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:37 pm

Hey guys what are some affordable flight schools in Bay area to obtain a PPL?
 
AirFiero
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:41 pm

anshabhi wrote:
Hey guys what are some affordable flight schools in Bay area to obtain a PPL?


What part of the area do you live?
 
ericm2031
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:09 pm

Spirit is adding seasonal daily OAK-FLL
 
ucdtim17
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:18 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
Spirit is adding seasonal daily OAK-FLL


Tragicomic for OAK that every recent addition seems to be counterbalanced by a larger reduction. One step forward, two steps back, while SFO and SJC are taking 2, 3, 4, steps forward and 0 steps back.
 
SonaSounds
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:42 pm

In other news JetBlue will be abandoning OAK dropping JFK, BOS, and LGB


Effective April 29, 2020, JetBlue will end service at Oakland International Airport (OAK) where it currently serves New York-JFK, Boston and Long Beach. JetBlue will continue to serve Bay Area travelers from airports in San Francisco and San Jose. In addition, JetBlue will reduce or eliminate flights on a half dozen short-haul routes in Long Beach as well as additional flights from Fort Lauderdale and Orlando.


http://blueir.investproductions.com/inv ... -191853268
 
dfwjim1
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:53 pm

ucdtim17 wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
Spirit is adding seasonal daily OAK-FLL


Tragicomic for OAK that every recent addition seems to be counterbalanced by a larger reduction. One step forward, two steps back, while SFO and SJC are taking 2, 3, 4, steps forward and 0 steps back.[/quote

Unfortunately the City of Oakland and it suburbs have always been regarded as the ugly stepchild of the Bay Area due to it's high crime rate and poverty which is probably another reason while visitors and natives shy away from using OAK.
 
ucdtim17
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:18 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
ucdtim17 wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
Spirit is adding seasonal daily OAK-FLL


Tragicomic for OAK that every recent addition seems to be counterbalanced by a larger reduction. One step forward, two steps back, while SFO and SJC are taking 2, 3, 4, steps forward and 0 steps back.[/quote

Unfortunately the City of Oakland and it suburbs have always been regarded as the ugly stepchild of the Bay Area due to it's high crime rate and poverty which is probably another reason while visitors and natives shy away from using OAK.


True, but that was more the case 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago than today, but OAK is probably a smaller share of the overall Bay Area air travel market today than it ever has been. Oakland the city is booming now, building more housing than SF, and has been one of the most expensive cities in the country to live in for years now. Perhaps there's just a lag, and in 2025 or 2030 OAK will finally grow (permanently) larger than it was in 2003.
 
jplatts
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:21 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
ucdtim17 wrote:
Tragicomic for OAK that every recent addition seems to be counterbalanced by a larger reduction. One step forward, two steps back, while SFO and SJC are taking 2, 3, 4, steps forward and 0 steps back.


Unfortunately the City of Oakland and it suburbs have always been regarded as the ugly stepchild of the Bay Area due to it's high crime rate and poverty which is probably another reason while visitors and natives shy away from using OAK.


WN had recently ended SFO-DAL and SFO-AUS nonstop service but kept OAK-AUS, SJC-AUS, OAK-DAL, and SJC-DAL nonstop service, but WN has a much bigger presence at OAK and SJC than it does at SFO.

One reason why WN serves ABQ, ATL, AUS, BWI, BOI, DAL, HNL, HOU, OGG, MCI, LGB, MSP, BNA, MSY, SNA, PDX, RNO, SLC, SEA, and GEG nonstop from OAK but not from SFO is that many travelers in these markets who are traveling to the San Francisco Bay Area on WN are willing to fly into OAK instead of SFO. In addition, there are also many WN FF's in the San Francisco Bay Area who are willing to fly out of OAK or SJC instead of SFO if they are going to a destination that WN serves nonstop from OAK or SJC but not SFO.
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:25 pm

SonaSounds wrote:
In other news JetBlue will be abandoning OAK dropping JFK, BOS, and LGB


Effective April 29, 2020, JetBlue will end service at Oakland International Airport (OAK) where it currently serves New York-JFK, Boston and Long Beach. JetBlue will continue to serve Bay Area travelers from airports in San Francisco and San Jose. In addition, JetBlue will reduce or eliminate flights on a half dozen short-haul routes in Long Beach as well as additional flights from Fort Lauderdale and Orlando.


http://blueir.investproductions.com/inv ... -191853268

Really sad considering OAK and LGB were their real mainstays on the West Coast for many of their first years.
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
babastud
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:37 pm

ucdtim17 wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
Spirit is adding seasonal daily OAK-FLL


Tragicomic for OAK that every recent addition seems to be counterbalanced by a larger reduction. One step forward, two steps back, while SFO and SJC are taking 2, 3, 4, steps forward and 0 steps back.



Your correct for the most part, although SFO has seen a drop in domestic this year mostly due to Alaska's cutting routes and readjusting and even UA readjusting. Some of this has been offset by a strong increase in International including more routes added with some cut. SFO really does need more gates, and it cannot happen fast enough. When are they due to start construction on the new international gate pier on the G side? I'd imagine after the new terminal 1 is complete, but honestly they need a new international pier on United's side last year rather then say in 5 years time?
 
SonaSounds
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:04 am

ucdtim17 wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
Spirit is adding seasonal daily OAK-FLL


Tragicomic for OAK that every recent addition seems to be counterbalanced by a larger reduction. One step forward, two steps back, while SFO and SJC are taking 2, 3, 4, steps forward and 0 steps back.


Exactly they have this one route announcement but lose 28x weekly frequencies and 3 destinations with JetBlue pulling out on the same day. OAK can't catch a break.
 
SonaSounds
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:09 am

To be fair, SJC and SMF are losing LGB service on B6 as well

JetBlue is also reducing some service at tiny Long Beach International Airport in southern California. In addition to the Long Beach-Oakland flights, it is eliminating flights between Long Beach and Sacramento and San Jose and reducing the number of daily flights to Las Vegas.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/a ... 491782002/
 
Ishrion
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:48 am

SonaSounds wrote:
To be fair, SJC and SMF are losing LGB service on B6 as well

JetBlue is also reducing some service at tiny Long Beach International Airport in southern California. In addition to the Long Beach-Oakland flights, it is eliminating flights between Long Beach and Sacramento and San Jose and reducing the number of daily flights to Las Vegas.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/a ... 491782002/


Except Oakland is losing JetBlue entirely. SJC and SMF will still have JFK/BOS service.
 
FSDan
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:40 am

B6 pulling out of OAK doesn't bode well for future OAK-NYC service... WN isn't going to fly that, having pulled out of EWR recently. I don't think DL's likely to try JFK-OAK seeing as ATL-OAK doesn't even make it for more than a few months in summer. I wonder if NK would try OAK-EWR at some point?
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
BayAreaFlyer
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:11 am

FSDan wrote:
B6 pulling out of OAK doesn't bode well for future OAK-NYC service... WN isn't going to fly that, having pulled out of EWR recently. I don't think DL's likely to try JFK-OAK seeing as ATL-OAK doesn't even make it for more than a few months in summer. I wonder if NK would try OAK-EWR at some point?


UA is expected to jump in and do OAK-EWR, following OAK-DEN, OAK-ORD and OAK-IAD.
 
BayAreaFlyer
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:16 am

KLMatSJC wrote:
SonaSounds wrote:
In other news JetBlue will be abandoning OAK dropping JFK, BOS, and LGB


Effective April 29, 2020, JetBlue will end service at Oakland International Airport (OAK) where it currently serves New York-JFK, Boston and Long Beach. JetBlue will continue to serve Bay Area travelers from airports in San Francisco and San Jose. In addition, JetBlue will reduce or eliminate flights on a half dozen short-haul routes in Long Beach as well as additional flights from Fort Lauderdale and Orlando.


http://blueir.investproductions.com/inv ... -191853268

Really sad considering OAK and LGB were their real mainstays on the West Coast for many of their first years.


JB had 9x daily OAK-LGB service back in 2001, once VA began to build up at SFO, JetBlue consolidated flights over there. The loss of JB at OAK isn't much of a difference, they already have declined years back. While UA comes back and fills in the OAK gaps, service will begin to ramp up again.
 
anshabhi
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:32 am

AirFiero wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Hey guys what are some affordable flight schools in Bay area to obtain a PPL?


What part of the area do you live?


Santa Clara ..
 
caliboy93
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:53 am

BayAreaFlyer wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
SonaSounds wrote:
In other news JetBlue will be abandoning OAK dropping JFK, BOS, and LGB




http://blueir.investproductions.com/inv ... -191853268

Really sad considering OAK and LGB were their real mainstays on the West Coast for many of their first years.


JB had 9x daily OAK-LGB service back in 2001, once VA began to build up at SFO, JetBlue consolidated flights over there. The loss of JB at OAK isn't much of a difference, they already have declined years back. While UA comes back and fills in the OAK gaps, service will begin to ramp up again.


Will UA really come to OAK considering they have a fortress hub at SFO which is literally across the bay?
 
AirFiero
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:54 am

anshabhi wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Hey guys what are some affordable flight schools in Bay area to obtain a PPL?


What part of the area do you live?


Santa Clara ..


Lots of instructors and flying clubs nearby. Reid Hillview and Palo Alto are your best bets.
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:00 am

BayAreaFlyer wrote:
FSDan wrote:
B6 pulling out of OAK doesn't bode well for future OAK-NYC service... WN isn't going to fly that, having pulled out of EWR recently. I don't think DL's likely to try JFK-OAK seeing as ATL-OAK doesn't even make it for more than a few months in summer. I wonder if NK would try OAK-EWR at some point?


UA is expected to jump in and do OAK-EWR, following OAK-DEN, OAK-ORD and OAK-IAD.

There's no way EWR would be first. I'd expect on DEN to start with possibly an ORD or IAH.
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
BayAreaFlyer
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:00 am

KLMatSJC wrote:
BayAreaFlyer wrote:
FSDan wrote:
B6 pulling out of OAK doesn't bode well for future OAK-NYC service... WN isn't going to fly that, having pulled out of EWR recently. I don't think DL's likely to try JFK-OAK seeing as ATL-OAK doesn't even make it for more than a few months in summer. I wonder if NK would try OAK-EWR at some point?


UA is expected to jump in and do OAK-EWR, following OAK-DEN, OAK-ORD and OAK-IAD.

There's no way EWR would be first. I'd expect on DEN to start with possibly an ORD or IAH.

Right, DEN will come first as UA has always done it when opening a new station. EWR will be the last addition.
 
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intotheair
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:08 am

Has there been any new info on UA restarting OAK? Scott Kirby told the Chronicle a few months ago that it's definitely happening, but there hasn't been an announced start date.

I'd be very surprised to see EWR or LAX from UA. DEN for sure, and maybe IAH and ORD.

I wonder what else OAK can do to attract carriers. It has so much potential to be a great secondary airport to SFO. Maybe they need to get serious about improving the passenger experience by overhauling the terminals. The new concessions and facelift about ten years ago helped, but Terminal 1 is especially looking tired. The one problem I suppose with a terminal remodel is the cost -- does OAK have the money, and would it work?
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
AirFiero
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:17 am

intotheair wrote:
Has there been any new info on UA restarting OAK? Scott Kirby told the Chronicle a few months ago that it's definitely happening, but there hasn't been an announced start date.

I'd be very surprised to see EWR or LAX from UA. DEN for sure, and maybe IAH and ORD.

I wonder what else OAK can do to attract carriers. It has so much potential to be a great secondary airport to SFO. Maybe they need to get serious about improving the passenger experience by overhauling the terminals. The new concessions and facelift about ten years ago helped, but Terminal 1 is especially looking tired. The one problem I suppose with a terminal remodel is the cost -- does OAK have the money, and would it work?


Now that they can stop throwing money at the Raiders... :lol:
 
ucdtim17
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:25 pm

intotheair wrote:
I wonder what else OAK can do to attract carriers. It has so much potential to be a great secondary airport to SFO. Maybe they need to get serious about improving the passenger experience by overhauling the terminals. The new concessions and facelift about ten years ago helped, but Terminal 1 is especially looking tired. The one problem I suppose with a terminal remodel is the cost -- does OAK have the money, and would it work?


Concessions are currently being overhauled, so that experience will be significantly improved this year (https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/articl ... 392600.php). The terminals are still basically small and old, which is a problem. As you mention, building new terminals would be extraordinarily expensive, but the alternative of sitting tight for decades while SFO and SJC build new terminals doesn't appear to be working great either. SFO has almost doubled in size in 20 years while OAK has had ~0 growth.
 
jplatts
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:04 pm

Here are the load factors for WN nonstop flights out of OAK, SJC, and SFO in October 2019:
OAK-ABQ - 71.44%
OAK-ATL - 88.02%
OAK-AUS - 75.08%
OAK-BNA - 90.21%
OAK-BOI - 76.77%
OAK-BUR - 65.78%
OAK-BWI - 88.10%
OAK-CMH - 89.37%
OAK-DAL - 76.84%
OAK-DEN - 82.80%
OAK-GEG - 77.64%
OAK-HNL - 93.35%
OAK-HOU - 82.86%
OAK-LAS - 74.49%
OAK-LAX - 68.45%
OAK-LGB - 82.11%
OAK-MCI - 87.55%
OAK-MDW - 85.20%
OAK-MSY - 88.16%
OAK-OGG - 86.24%
OAK-ONT - 71.88%
OAK-PDX - 74.81%
OAK-PHX - 80.67%
OAK-RNO - 65.97%
OAK-SAN - 72.54%
OAK-SEA - 72.60%
OAK-SLC - 67.93%
OAK-SNA - 79.45%
OAK-STL - 89.76%

SJC-ABQ - 72.48%
SJC-AUS - 83.90%
SJC-BNA - 85.50%
SJC-BOI - 84.31%
SJC-BUR - 64.00%
SJC-BWI - 93.24%
SJC-DAL - 82.67%
SJC-DEN - 79.26%
SJC-ELP - 95.98%
SJC-GEG - 82.38%
SJC-HNL - 92.86%
SJC-HOU - 87.22%
SJC-LAS - 71.72%
SJC-LAX - 68.63%
SJC-LGB - 61.16%
SJC-MDW - 90.79%
SJC-OGG - 82.26%
SJC-ONT - 66.43%
SJC-PDX - 73.59%
SJC-PHX - 76.25%
SJC-RNO - 58.52%
SJC-SAN - 70.60%
SJC-SEA - 72.33%
SJC-SLC - 76.49%
SJC-SNA - 81.78%
SJC-STL - 91.27%
SJC-TUS - 81.62%

SFO-BUR - 68.46%
SFO-DAL - 81.27%
SFO-DEN - 82.61%
SFO-LAS - 82.59%
SFO-LAX - 70.22%
SFO-MDW - 89.62%
SFO-ONT - 51.09%
SFO-PHX - 78.37%
SFO-SAN - 76.98%
SFO-STL - 88.91%
 
User avatar
intotheair
Posts: 1881
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:35 am

AirFiero wrote:
Now that they can stop throwing money at the Raiders... :lol:


Agreed!!!

ucdtim17 wrote:
intotheair wrote:
I wonder what else OAK can do to attract carriers. It has so much potential to be a great secondary airport to SFO. Maybe they need to get serious about improving the passenger experience by overhauling the terminals. The new concessions and facelift about ten years ago helped, but Terminal 1 is especially looking tired. The one problem I suppose with a terminal remodel is the cost -- does OAK have the money, and would it work?


Concessions are currently being overhauled, so that experience will be significantly improved this year (https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/articl ... 392600.php). The terminals are still basically small and old, which is a problem. As you mention, building new terminals would be extraordinarily expensive, but the alternative of sitting tight for decades while SFO and SJC build new terminals doesn't appear to be working great either. SFO has almost doubled in size in 20 years while OAK has had ~0 growth.


What's the progress/timeline on this? That article is from November 2018, and from what I can tell, none of the places named in there have opened. Brown Sugar Kitchen is even closing its location in the Ferry Building. Even though I live and work 10-20 minutes away from OAK, I fly out of SFO 85% of the time. I flew out of OAK a few weeks ago and didn't see too much that was different. It's still better from the days when the whole place smelled like that Round Table in Terminal 1 I guess.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4900
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:47 am

jplatts wrote:
WN is going to be discontinuing SFO-DAL nonstop service tomorrow, but WN will still serve DAL nonstop from OAK and SJC in the San Francisco Bay Area after it discontinues SFO-DAL nonstop service.

[YGBK! WN is retreating? I can see them moving the flight to OAK as that's their hub and it does limit their Bank a little with an airplane at SFO. United saw the same problems when flying OAK and SJC. If an airplane went tech at either OAK or SJC, We'd have to dispatch a crew out of SFO which extended the delay time. May not seem like a big deal to some but it burned crew duty time if it wasn't exactly a 2 min fix... I can see WN's reasoning though I find it surprising.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4900
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:58 am

ucdtim17 wrote:
BayAreaFlyer wrote:
In the eye of 2020, UA will be returning to OAK after a seven-year absence in the East Bay, resuming connections to DEN and IAD.

More developments out of OAK, a new Asian carrier will be announced this year.


IAD seems an odd add before ORD/EWR. DEN most likely. From SJC, it's DEN/ORD/IAH.[/quot
e]EWR, IAD, ORD,DEN and LAX are all UA hubs why would it seen strange which one they start with? IAD and EWR are slated to get the A321 XLR's They may be priming the pump to see if there is any real business out of OAK,
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4900
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:02 am

caliboy93 wrote:
BayAreaFlyer wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
Really sad considering OAK and LGB were their real mainstays on the West Coast for many of their first years.


JB had 9x daily OAK-LGB service back in 2001, once VA began to build up at SFO, JetBlue consolidated flights over there. The loss of JB at OAK isn't much of a difference, they already have declined years back. While UA comes back and fills in the OAK gaps, service will begin to ramp up again.


Will UA really come to OAK considering they have a fortress hub at SFO which is literally across the bay?

I don't see why not. Before Bankruptcy UA flew from OAK SFO and SJC. OAK and JSC are both money sitting on the ground waiting to be picked up to feed IAD and EWR- Europe or Star Alliance partners.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4900
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:07 am

intotheair wrote:
Has there been any new info on UA restarting OAK? Scott Kirby told the Chronicle a few months ago that it's definitely happening, but there hasn't been an announced start date.

I'd be very surprised to see EWR or LAX from UA. DEN for sure, and maybe IAH and ORD.

I wonder what else OAK can do to attract carriers. It has so much potential to be a great secondary airport to SFO. Maybe they need to get serious about improving the passenger experience by overhauling the terminals. The new concessions and facelift about ten years ago helped, but Terminal 1 is especially looking tired. The one problem I suppose with a terminal remodel is the cost -- does OAK have the money, and would it work?

the city is risk averse, OAK could get the money be floating bonds . But they'd have to have long term commitments from the carriers. United for One? I'd bet would want a new terminal to work out of long term. In any case? It's going to cost them up front for the gain on the back end.
 
User avatar
intotheair
Posts: 1881
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:41 am

Looks like AF isn't planning on flying the A380 into SFO this summer. Looking at some dates, I see 2x 77W and 1x 77E. I suppose that's an improvement in product in all cabins, though it was fun for me to finally fly the A380 for the first time last summer.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
tonyban
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:55 am

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:45 pm

Hello, I might be a little late with the news, so mods please delete if it's been posted before.

Just found out British Airways is changing equipment from 787-9 to 744 on its LHR-SJC run starting March 2020.
I guess this route is starting to pay off for BA.

Good news and can't wait to see this beauty at San Jose.

Here's the link....
https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/R ... 904766.php
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2674
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:47 pm

tonyban wrote:
Hello, I might be a little late with the news, so mods please delete if it's been posted before.

Just found out British Airways is changing equipment from 787-9 to 744 on its LHR-SJC run starting March 2020.
I guess this route is starting to pay off for BA.

Good news and can't wait to see this beauty at San Jose.

Here's the link....
https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/R ... 904766.php


There was a separate thread last month

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1436511&p=21845611
 
tonyban
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:55 am

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:51 pm

Ishrion wrote:
tonyban wrote:
Hello, I might be a little late with the news, so mods please delete if it's been posted before.

Just found out British Airways is changing equipment from 787-9 to 744 on its LHR-SJC run starting March 2020.
I guess this route is starting to pay off for BA.

Good news and can't wait to see this beauty at San Jose.

Here's the link....
https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/R ... 904766.php


There was a separate thread last month

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1436511&p=21845611



Thank you and my apologies.
 
SonaSounds
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:16 pm

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:09 pm

Looks like ANA is adding a 2nd flight to Japan from SFO after JAL added a 2nd daily flight for this summer as well. Going to be a lot of new seats from SFO to Japan with ANA and JAL both serving NRT & HND with their own aircraft from SFO. (If I remember correctly...) SFO will go from 5x daily SFO-Japan to 7x daily this summer.

San Francisco (from 29 MAR 2020)
NH108 HND 22:55 - SFO 16:25)Tu, Fr, Su 773
NH107 SFO 01:45 - HND 05:00+1 Mo, We, Sa 773
(Daily from 25 MAY 2020)
 
User avatar
KLMatSJC
Posts: 670
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:16 am

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:21 pm

SonaSounds wrote:
Looks like ANA is adding a 2nd flight to Japan from SFO after JAL added a 2nd daily flight for this summer as well. Going to be a lot of new seats from SFO to Japan with ANA and JAL both serving NRT & HND with their own aircraft from SFO. (If I remember correctly...) SFO will go from 5x daily SFO-Japan to 7x daily this summer.

San Francisco (from 29 MAR 2020)
NH108 HND 22:55 - SFO 16:25)Tu, Fr, Su 773
NH107 SFO 01:45 - HND 05:00+1 Mo, We, Sa 773
(Daily from 25 MAY 2020)

This was announced a few weeks ago with ANA's large HND announcement.
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