flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:10 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
whatusaid wrote:
Your tent comment is so spot on. Maybe in the next Master Plan revision.


The current FIS is just a modular building and is slated to be removed after the concourse expansion is complete. Just move it to a new location and call it the regional terminal. Anything 50 seats or less operates from there.


Well, the original plan called for it to be part of the new customs facility as a passenger greeting area, so I'm sure they would be eager to reuse it now that that's no longer the case. My understanding from the diagrams, BTW, is that there wouldn't rally be any room left for gates 1/3 once the new concourse starts going up. The mock-up shows one CRJ near those gates, but the significant increase in size of the security checkpoint and addition of the connector both appear to make that space almost unusable. So this might be the last hurrah for those gates?
 
whatusaid
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:32 am

There’s an AS charter coming in from Cabo tomorrow evening. Anyone know how frequent those ILT golf charter flights are? From their FB page, looks like both Cabo and Puerta Vallarta were departures last week, a day apart. Hope these are successful, my golf game could have improved in Cabo if I known these were planned. ILT ran a FAT charter on Virgin once to Mazatlan, but I hadn’t heard they were back in the market.
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:29 pm

I've seen no advertising. Maybe they already have a large enough direct contact list or connections at the courses that they didn't feel a need for ads.

There was a public charter prospectus filed a few months ago by Aviation Advantage (not ILT) for flights out of FAT, RNO and others to Mexico. Flights from all of the destinations are supposed to operate from Jan 7 to March 11 on Alaska. I didn't connect Aviation Advantage with ILT.

Just looked at ILT's website and see nothing there about future schedules or even booking. Interesting way to operate.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:57 pm

According to the OAG thread:

UA has extended the 5X CRJ to DEN through November. As a side note, I see fares as low as $92 OW to DEN on UA on a few days.

UA has also extended 4X CRJ to LAX through October. I don't see any $92 fares to LAX (I guess we're seeing first hand what competition does to fares).
 
whatusaid
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:42 am

SASE has released the 2019 Mexico numbers and December looks to have set a record, 29,829 total pax FAT-BJX, GDL, and MLM. For the year, 264,101 departing and arriving pax on Y4 and AM.
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:08 am

FATFlyer wrote:
Playing with a few growth scenarios, I'll guess a total O&D in the range of 1.92 million to 2.02 million.


Looks like I got it right.

FAT is reporting that 2019 finished with 1.96 million passengers.

The number of passengers passing through Fresno Yosemite International Airport reached a record number last year — 1.96 million people. That’s an 11% increase over over the previous record of 1.77 million passengers in 2018, and 68% growth since 2010, airport officials reported Wednesday afternoon.
http://thebusinessjournal.com/fresno-airport-posts-another-fat-year-with-1-96m-passengers/
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:11 am

whatusaid wrote:
SASE has released the 2019 Mexico numbers and December looks to have set a record, 29,829 total pax FAT-BJX, GDL, and MLM. For the year, 264,101 departing and arriving pax on Y4 and AM.


2018 was about 223,000 international O&D.

So 2019 was about 18.4% growth over 2018.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:54 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
2018 was about 223,000 international O&D.


When you say O&D, do you mean there are no connecting pax in that number? I'm sure it's not many, but I would venture that there were at least a few pax who connected SLC-FAT-GDL and DEN-FAT-Mexico throughout the year. So they wouldn't be counted?
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:20 pm

The 2018 number I used is based on the airport's posted December 2018 statistic report. Their report lists it as "enplaned" and "deplaned" passengers (domestic and international listed separately).
http://flyfresno.com/wp-content/uploads ... r-2018.pdf

I don't know how they define, collect or massage the numbers in that report. For simplicity I just used O&D.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
whatusaid
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:20 pm

As noted in this week's OAG update, AM is upping FAT-GDL, to where it's essentially double daily in July. Checking the schedule, I expected the usual holiday schedule of two red-eyes. Wrong - a 10:35 am departure is added to the schedule. FAT Mgt has been pushing for that schedule for some time. WIth the new schedule, FIS hours will need to be expanded. Thoughts on what's taking place and how? Should we read G4 to SJD is not far behind. Hard to imagine FIS opening for one flight...
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:57 pm

I'm seeing an 8:55am arrival in Fresno according to AM's website for the 2nd flight. That means in July, AM has arrivals at FAT at 8:55am and 9:55pm.

Then Y4 has GDL-FAT arrivals at 12:30am and 2:00am (Wed though is 10:59pm and 12:30am); BJX-FAT arrives Tues/Fri/Sat at 11pm slot; and MLM-FAT is an 11:08pm arrival Sun/Mon/Thurs.

An interesting scheduling for the FIS. I wonder how they will staff for a morning flight. It does seem like an opening for more morning FIS arrivals if the staff will already be there.

In comparison, SMF's AM arrivals from GDL are 8:20pm and 9:40pm in July. That means Sacramento gets 2 red-eye departures on AM back to GDL (9:50pm and 11:50pm) while FAT will have both a daytime and red-eye departure to GDL on AM.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:20 pm

I feel like two international gates will not be enough. Perhaps they need to go back to the drawing board while there is still time and it's cheaper than needing to start planning for another addition right after this one opens...
 
whatusaid
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:49 pm

FYI, AA’s weekend update has 4X to DFW starting in May. Red eye that vanished as DFW went all daytime 3X in April is now back on the schedule at 12:55a. No let up on gate demand.

While FAT is cute, DL and AM now share a gate. That won’t work with 9:50a SLC and the new 10:40a GDL this summer. Maybe take one from UA given their all CRJ, all the time, operations?
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:38 pm

UA's CRJs can probably just stay at the small regional aircraft gate 3 to make space for AM.

Actually in the master plan some of the UA CRJs are shown operating from gate 3 and some from gate 14B (the open ramp area next to 14) along with 5/7. So passengers down the concourse stairs and out to the ramp is another possibility.

I've mentioned before that 14B and 15B could use jetways. Maybe one of those will happen due to more flights..

Out of curiosity I went back and looked at the proposed design peak day schedule in Chapter 5 of the master plan.

The master plan did anticipate AM adding a daytime GDL flight. It was shown in the master plan design day plan arriving between 12noon and 1pm at the FIS and then towed to depart from gate 11 between 1pm and 2pm.

Shown as operating a little later in the master plan than what is actually happening but it looks like the airport was aware a daytime AM GDL flight might be added.

The other daytime international flights in the master plan were 2 AC CR7s (in reality it would probably be CR9s or E175s). No FIS needed for that unless there was a preclearance problem. But Customs would still need to be available during that time. So maybe Allegiant to SJD is possible with the added FIS schedule. But if the master plan reflected actual discussions then maybe some summer AC flights are coming also?

Then in the master plan design day schedule there is still that unknown, generic "YY" airline with flights to DEN, LAS, and PHX. If the master plan correctly expected AM's daytime flight then hhmm? :scratchchin: :shhh:
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:14 am

FATFlyer wrote:
UA's CRJs can probably just stay at the small regional aircraft gate 3 to make space for AM.

Actually in the master plan some of the UA CRJs are shown operating from gate 3 and some from gate 14B (the open ramp area next to 14) along with 5/7. So passengers down the concourse stairs and out to the ramp is another possibility.

I've mentioned before that 14B and 15B could use jetways. Maybe one of those will happen due to more flights..

Out of curiosity I went back and looked at the proposed design peak day schedule in Chapter 5 of the master plan.

The master plan did anticipate AM adding a daytime GDL flight. It was shown in the master plan design day plan arriving between 12noon and 1pm at the FIS and then towed to depart from gate 11 between 1pm and 2pm.

Shown as operating a little later in the master plan than what is actually happening but it looks like the airport was aware a daytime AM GDL flight might be added.

The other daytime international flights in the master plan were 2 AC CR7s (in reality it would probably be CR9s or E175s). No FIS needed for that unless there was a preclearance problem. But Customs would still need to be available during that time. So maybe Allegiant to SJD is possible with the added FIS schedule. But if the master plan reflected actual discussions then maybe some summer AC flights are coming also?

Then in the master plan design day schedule there is still that unknown, generic "YY" airline with flights to DEN, LAS, and PHX. If the master plan correctly expected AM's daytime flight then hhmm? :scratchchin: :shhh:


Whats interesting about AC is there might actually be a demand for inbound visitors going to Yosemite and the rest of the Sierra. There would probably be a bit of cannibalism from SFO flights (and, to a lesser extent, SJC and SMF), but during the summer, with both cruise passengers headed north and Yosemite and Sierra visitors headed south, maybe it could work?

I'm still waiting for the 7-Eleven style commuter terminal that all CRJ-200 and smaller operators will be forced into.

Also, I'm sure YY is just Contour or a smaller operator like that...but maybe an even larger airline is planning to touchdoWN in Fresno soon? :spin:
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:21 pm

flyfresno wrote:
Whats interesting about AC is there might actually be a demand for inbound visitors going to Yosemite and the rest of the Sierra. There would probably be a bit of cannibalism from SFO flights (and, to a lesser extent, SJC and SMF), but during the summer, with both cruise passengers headed north and Yosemite and Sierra visitors headed south, maybe it could work?

I'm still waiting for the 7-Eleven style commuter terminal that all CRJ-200 and smaller operators will be forced into.

Also, I'm sure YY is just Contour or a smaller operator like that...but maybe an even larger airline is planning to touchdoWN in Fresno soon? :spin:

The 2015 Leakage Study put the FAT-YVR market originating in the catchment area at about 15,300 roundtrips annually (does not include the inbound Canadian visitors originating at YVR). So the local catchment area by itself was estimated to create about 41 PDEW on average year round. I would expect higher numbers in summer and lower in winter. Add in Canadians traveling south for Yosemite/Sequoia/Kings Canyon or for business travel and one or two 70 seat aircraft each day even just seasonal seems possible.

If the CR2 operators don't go to a tent or 7-Eleven type building they could always just operate from some kind of bus gate. The parking area between the concourse and ARFF/tower area would work. That would free up concourse gates for 70 seat and mainline aircraft.

The YY operator is supposed to use 737s to DEN, LAS and PHX. A MAX jet in Countour or Boutique livery would be cool, WouldN't it? :lol:
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
whatusaid
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:28 am

FATFlyer wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
Whats interesting about AC is there might actually be a demand for inbound visitors going to Yosemite and the rest of the Sierra. There would probably be a bit of cannibalism from SFO flights (and, to a lesser extent, SJC and SMF), but during the summer, with both cruise passengers headed north and Yosemite and Sierra visitors headed south, maybe it could work?

I'm still waiting for the 7-Eleven style commuter terminal that all CRJ-200 and smaller operators will be forced into.

Also, I'm sure YY is just Contour or a smaller operator like that...but maybe an even larger airline is planning to touchdoWN in Fresno soon? :spin:

The 2015 Leakage Study put the FAT-YVR market originating in the catchment area at about 15,300 roundtrips annually (does not include the inbound Canadian visitors originating at YVR). So the local catchment area by itself was estimated to create about 41 PDEW on average year round. I would expect higher numbers in summer and lower in winter. Add in Canadians traveling south for Yosemite/Sequoia/Kings Canyon or for business travel and one or two 70 seat aircraft each day even just seasonal seems possible.

If the CR2 operators don't go to a tent or 7-Eleven type building they could always just operate from some kind of bus gate. The parking area between the concourse and ARFF/tower area would work. That would free up concourse gates for 70 seat and mainline aircraft.

The YY operator is supposed to use 737s to DEN, LAS and PHX. A MAX jet in Countour or Boutique livery would be cool, WouldN't it? :lol:


With the new AS schedule to SEA, that few of us who do same day RT's to YVR are screwed. Can't even land by noon with AS, and UA through SFO is always a risk. The cruise ship pax (I wonder how many of the 41 PDEW?) will likely drive away to SJC or SFO. Granted, we're not talking more than a handful of pax, but, Fresno has always been cruise ship happy. The Master plan has been proven to understate demand - that's reason enough to believe YVR can work, right? :)

Anyone for JSX to SNA? I understand why Monterey has landed JSX given the demos, but, if they're (JSX) about business and not just 30 somethings jetting off for the weekend, JSX could do well to/fr SNA.
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:08 pm

whatusaid wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
Whats interesting about AC is there might actually be a demand for inbound visitors going to Yosemite and the rest of the Sierra. There would probably be a bit of cannibalism from SFO flights (and, to a lesser extent, SJC and SMF), but during the summer, with both cruise passengers headed north and Yosemite and Sierra visitors headed south, maybe it could work?

I'm still waiting for the 7-Eleven style commuter terminal that all CRJ-200 and smaller operators will be forced into.

Also, I'm sure YY is just Contour or a smaller operator like that...but maybe an even larger airline is planning to touchdoWN in Fresno soon? :spin:

The 2015 Leakage Study put the FAT-YVR market originating in the catchment area at about 15,300 roundtrips annually (does not include the inbound Canadian visitors originating at YVR). So the local catchment area by itself was estimated to create about 41 PDEW on average year round. I would expect higher numbers in summer and lower in winter. Add in Canadians traveling south for Yosemite/Sequoia/Kings Canyon or for business travel and one or two 70 seat aircraft each day even just seasonal seems possible.

If the CR2 operators don't go to a tent or 7-Eleven type building they could always just operate from some kind of bus gate. The parking area between the concourse and ARFF/tower area would work. That would free up concourse gates for 70 seat and mainline aircraft.

The YY operator is supposed to use 737s to DEN, LAS and PHX. A MAX jet in Countour or Boutique livery would be cool, WouldN't it? :lol:


With the new AS schedule to SEA, that few of us who do same day RT's to YVR are screwed. Can't even land by noon with AS, and UA through SFO is always a risk. The cruise ship pax (I wonder how many of the 41 PDEW?) will likely drive away to SJC or SFO. Granted, we're not talking more than a handful of pax, but, Fresno has always been cruise ship happy. The Master plan has been proven to understate demand - that's reason enough to believe YVR can work, right? :)

Anyone for JSX to SNA? I understand why Monterey has landed JSX given the demos, but, if they're (JSX) about business and not just 30 somethings jetting off for the weekend, JSX could do well to/fr SNA.


FAT-YVR is theoretically within the range of the DH8-300. Everyone would be deaf by the end of the flight, and they would probably need to block off 5+ seats with an alternate, but is it really any worse than dealing with a CR2 and connecting in SFO in the end?
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:27 pm

The new AS/AA agreement is going to solidify OneWorld as the #1 alliance in Fresno. Six destinations, up to 22 flights per day. I'm not sure how much SkyTeam is going to compete in this one, but Star must be taking notice in FAT and a host of other mid-sized cities across the west...
 
whatusaid
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:14 am

flyfresno wrote:
The new AS/AA agreement is going to solidify OneWorld as the #1 alliance in Fresno. Six destinations, up to 22 flights per day. I'm not sure how much SkyTeam is going to compete in this one, but Star must be taking notice in FAT and a host of other mid-sized cities across the west...


DL’s numbers since the upgrade to 175’s are solid - 87% in November per the DOT’s. Let’s hope that upward tick continues. But, Sky Team come summer will have more seats on AM than DL - sigh.

As to Star, UA will need to add another dozen or so CRJ flights to compete with One World. Gonna need a bigger tent.

One World rules in this market.
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:17 pm

United's California President needs to pay attention to what the others are doing here.

The mainline ORD flight was a nice add but the red-eye schedule east makes it a killer. It needs a daytime frequency. After that it is CR2 central everywhere else, smallest aircraft operated in the market now.

If UA wants to stick FAT with only CRJs within 750nm then offset it with another destination on a larger aircraft. IAH? Maybe a weekly FAT-HNL? LOL.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
flyfresno
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:43 pm

whatusaid wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
The new AS/AA agreement is going to solidify OneWorld as the #1 alliance in Fresno. Six destinations, up to 22 flights per day. I'm not sure how much SkyTeam is going to compete in this one, but Star must be taking notice in FAT and a host of other mid-sized cities across the west...


DL’s numbers since the upgrade to 175’s are solid - 87% in November per the DOT’s. Let’s hope that upward tick continues. But, Sky Team come summer will have more seats on AM than DL - sigh.

As to Star, UA will need to add another dozen or so CRJ flights to compete with One World. Gonna need a bigger tent.

One World rules in this market.


Interestingly, on the average day, OneWorld will have about 230 first class seats leaving FAT, which is almost 3X that of SkyTeam, which will have about 80 first class seats, which is almost 7X that of Star, which will have 12 first class seats.
 
flyfresno
Posts: 939
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:28 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
United's California President needs to pay attention to what the others are doing here.

The mainline ORD flight was a nice add but the red-eye schedule east makes it a killer. It needs a daytime frequency. After that it is CR2 central everywhere else, smallest aircraft operated in the market now.

If UA wants to stick FAT with only CRJs within 750nm then offset it with another destination on a larger aircraft. IAH? Maybe a weekly FAT-HNL? LOL.


A few thoughts:

1) If the ORD flight were moved to a morning departure, Fresno would have no real redeye options other than taking the 6pm to LAX or the 4:20pm to SFO and then connecting (the latter not only cuts into the average work day, but also leads to long layovers in SFO). Those two flights also don't connect to nearly as many destinations in the East without taking a third flight. I think it's actually good timing, despite how much many people hate redeyes.
2) I'm not sure whether UA would next add IAH, or another ORD. I am very confident that what they won't be adding next is HNL, though, haha.
3) On a side note, fares are looking good this summer. $188 OW from FAT-EWR on many off peak days...pretty cheap (but you gotta take that redeye!)
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4948
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:54 pm

flyfresno wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
United's California President needs to pay attention to what the others are doing here.

The mainline ORD flight was a nice add but the red-eye schedule east makes it a killer. It needs a daytime frequency. After that it is CR2 central everywhere else, smallest aircraft operated in the market now.

If UA wants to stick FAT with only CRJs within 750nm then offset it with another destination on a larger aircraft. IAH? Maybe a weekly FAT-HNL? LOL.


A few thoughts:

1) If the ORD flight were moved to a morning departure, Fresno would have no real redeye options other than taking the 6pm to LAX or the 4:20pm to SFO and then connecting (the latter not only cuts into the average work day, but also leads to long layovers in SFO). Those two flights also don't connect to nearly as many destinations in the East without taking a third flight. I think it's actually good timing, despite how much many people hate redeyes.
2) I'm not sure whether UA would next add IAH, or another ORD. I am very confident that what they won't be adding next is HNL, though, haha.
3) On a side note, fares are looking good this summer. $188 OW from FAT-EWR on many off peak days...pretty cheap (but you gotta take that redeye!)


Sorry it wasn't clear.

I meant a daytime 2nd ORD frequency. A morning FAT-ORD would connect to the afternoon/evening banks for the east coast.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
FATman
Posts: 3
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Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:38 am

Same wish list as every year... would love to see SNA, BOI, a morning ORD, HNL/OGG, and better options to LAS and SFO. I am optimistic that AS will build out of FAT and serve more west coast cities, especially since WN isn’t expanding in the short term.
 
flyfresno
Posts: 939
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:29 pm

FATman wrote:
Same wish list as every year... would love to see SNA, BOI, a morning ORD, HNL/OGG, and better options to LAS and SFO. I am optimistic that AS will build out of FAT and serve more west coast cities, especially since WN isn’t expanding in the short term.


Would be great to see mainline AS do something like FAT-SAN-HNL in Mo/We/Fr, with non-stop FAT-HNL on Sa/Su, and then FAT-SAN-OGG on Tu/Th/Sa/Su. Aside from that, E175s on FAT-SNA once per day, and then FAT-LAS on ThFrSuMo. BOI seems unlikely.

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