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zackary747
Posts: 753
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:41 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:22 am

https://www.ind.com/business/concession ... sh-program

Scroll down to the very bottom. It says "The next round of Concessions Refresh contract approvals is anticipated at an IAA board meeting in 2020, in which new food and beverage vendors and additional retailers will be announced."
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Midwestindy
Posts: 5351
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:44 pm

MAX cuts loaded in last night:
-3 flights for Weekdays (-1 HOU, -1 LAX, -1 MCO)
-2 flights for Saturdays (-1 BWI, -1 TPA)
-4 flights for Sundays (-1 ATL, -1 BWI, -1 LAX, -1 TPA)

Biggest loss is obviously IND-LAX cut for Apr/May up to June 7th, AA/DL should be interested in that development

Compared to other similar markets,, IND didn't do too bad with this round of cuts:
CLE got cut by 5 flights per weekday compared to the original extension schedule
MKE got cut by 6 flights per weekday compared to the original extension schedule
CMH got cut by 2 flights per weekday compared to the original extension schedule
PIT got cut by 3 flights per weekday compared to the original extension schedule
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jplatts
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:15 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Biggest loss is obviously IND-LAX cut for Apr/May up to June 7th, AA/DL should be interested in that development


AA is also facing plane shortages due to the 737 MAX grounding and the retirement of its MD-80 planes.

DL will likely face a plane shortage with DL planning on retiring its 48 remaining MD-88's this year, but DL already has plans to take delivery of 198 new narrowbody planes (17 A220-100, 50 A220-300, 31 A321ceo, 100 A321neo). DL also isn't affected by the 737 MAX grounding with DL not currently having any 737 MAX planes in its fleet and with DL not currently having any orders for 737 MAX planes.

AA could also upgauge IND-LAX nonstop service from A319's to bigger aircraft with AA having A321 and A321neo planes in its fleet.

DL could also upgauge IND-LAX nonstop service to an 737-900ER, A321ceo, or 757 with DL already having 737-900ER, A321ceo, and 757 planes in its fleet.
 
beerbus
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:41 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:04 am

Have info from reliable sources that DL will for the third consecutive year reopen their seasonal IND flight attendant base to the IND CDG flights.

What does this say regarding the IND CDG flight?

For the base to be opened, it means DL plans on running the IND CDG flight at least 5 days a week. When service goes below that number- they have historically closed the base, and staffed the flight from ATL.

The base should open 01 APR.

This is good news, considering the subsidies ran out last summer.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:37 am

beerbus wrote:
Have info from reliable sources that DL will for the third consecutive year reopen their seasonal IND flight attendant base to the IND CDG flights.

What does this say regarding the IND CDG flight?

For the base to be opened, it means DL plans on running the IND CDG flight at least 5 days a week. When service goes below that number- they have historically closed the base, and staffed the flight from ATL.

The base should open 01 APR.

This is good news, considering the subsidies ran out last summer.


I think it is clear that the flight is doing well, LFs from May/June were impressive, official July numbers come out tomorrow and I have a feeling those should be strong as well.

Only threat to the flight is the potential for another carrier to enter the IND-Europe market...
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Rocketman1972
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:04 pm

Can one of you well informed a.net folks answer question for me? How many passengers fly from Indianapolis Paris and London separately. That is they do not go to CDG via Delta and then on to London nor did they fly to London and then on to CDG. I haven't been able to figure that out from all the information that you all have provided previously. And it would seem to speak to the ability of IND to support to TATL flights.You're probably just points to my lack of understanding how to appropriately interpret the data. Thank you!
 
Rocketman1972
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:04 pm

Can one of you well informed a.net folks answer question for me? How many passengers fly from Indianapolis Paris and London separately. That is they do not go to CDG via Delta and then on to London nor did they fly to London and then on to CDG. I haven't been able to figure that out from all the information that you all have provided previously. And it would seem to speak to the ability of IND to support to TATL flights.You're probably just points to my lack of understanding how to appropriately interpret the data. Thank you!
 
VTORD
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:45 pm

Rocketman1972 wrote:
Can one of you well informed a.net folks answer question for me? How many passengers fly from Indianapolis Paris and London separately. That is they do not go to CDG via Delta and then on to London nor did they fly to London and then on to CDG. I haven't been able to figure that out from all the information that you all have provided previously. And it would seem to speak to the ability of IND to support to TATL flights.You're probably just points to my lack of understanding how to appropriately interpret the data. Thank you!

Are you asking how many pax traveled:
IND-XXX-CDG OR IND-XXX-LHR? on non-DL carriers?
Hmm...

Midwestindy wrote:
Only threat to the flight is the potential for another carrier to enter the IND-Europe market...

Do you envision a scenario where DL runs 4xCDG + 3xLHR (provided slots) so as not to cannibalize it's own flight?
 
stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:42 pm

To me, split service would be a major "WTF" among the clients making CDG IND a success thus far.

I just dont see the confusion worth the trouble compared to just organically building the route.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:35 pm

LF data

July Int’l
DL IND-CDG-71.4%, CDG-IND-89.3% (42% increase in pax on IND-CDG, 4.5% decrease in pax on CDG-IND)
- Comparables:
- BA BNA-LHR-71.3%; LHR-BNA-94.0% (Daily)
- BA MSY-LHR-67.1%; LHR-MSY-87.8% (Less than daily)
- BA PIT-LHR-76.6%; LHR-PIT-93.0% (Less than daily)
- DL RDU-CDG-81.3%; CDG-RDU-89.2%
- DL CVG-CDG-76.5%; CDG-CVG-89.3%
- DL TPA-AMS-71.8%; AMS-TPA-93.2%
WN IND-CUN-93.0%; CUN-IND-98.1%
DL IND-CUN-94.7%; CUN-IND-92.0%
AC IND-YYZ-78.3%; YYZ-IND-85.9%

October
AS IND-SEA-86.8%; SEA-IND-89.2%

G4 IND-PGD-90.0%; PGD-IND-82.7%
G4 IND-PIE-89.6%; PIE-IND-87.8%
G4 IND-SRQ-88.8%; SRQ-IND-77.5%
G4 IND-SFB-88.4%; SFB-IND-83.8%
G4 IND-FLL-88.3%; FLL-IND-91.0%
G4 IND-JAX-86.8%; JAX-IND-83.0%
G4 IND-LAS-85.7%; LAS-IND-91.0%
G4 IND-AUS-78.9%; AUS-IND-78.4%

AA IND-LAX-90.2%; LAX-IND-89.6%
AA IND-PHX-87.9%; PHX-IND-92.8%
AA IND-CLT-86.8%; CLT-IND-87.3%
AA IND-DFW-83.9%; DFW-IND-86.2%
AA IND-JFK-83.0%; JFK-IND-82.8%
AA IND-ORD-79.8%; ORD-IND-82.4%
AA IND-MIA-81.9%; MIA-IND-81.9%
AA IND-PHL-76.0%; PHL-IND-81.1%
AA IND-LGA-83.4%; LGA-IND-78.7% (Envoy only)
AA IND-DCA-80.2%; DCA-IND-76.3%

DL IND-LAX-92.6%; LAX-IND-92.7%
DL IND-SLC-90.8%; SLC-IND-93.5%
DL IND-MCO-88.1%; MCO-IND-88.5%
DL IND-ATL-86.3%; ATL-IND-85.5%
DL IND-SEA-85.9%; SEA-IND-88.5%
DL IND-MSP-82.2%; MSP-IND-81.6%
DL IND-RDU-78.3%; RDU-IND-79.4%
DL IND-DTW-75.8%; DTW-IND-76.9%
DL IND-JFK-70.3%; JFK-IND-72.9%
DL IND-BOS-69.0%; BOS-IND-70.7%

F9 IND-LAS-92.1%; LAS-IND-94.3%
F9 IND-DEN-89.3%; DEN-IND-86.4%
F9 IND-MCO-86.0%; MCO-IND-78.9%

WN IND-RSW-94.3%; RSW-IND-83.6%
WN IND-LAX-94.1%; LAX-IND-84.4.%
WN IND-LAS-92.2%; LAS-IND-88.2%
WN IND-DEN-90.2%; DEN-IND-90.3%
WN IND-PHX-89.6%; PHX-IND-89.9%
WN IND-MCO-87.8%; MCO-IND-82.8%
WN IND-ATL-87.3%; ATL-IND-84.3%
WN IND-DAL-84.0%; DAL-IND-92.7%
WN IND-HOU-83.6%; HOU-IND-79.4%
WN IND-FLL-83.5%; FLL-IND-78.9%
WN IND-BWI-82.7%; BWI-IND-87.7%
WN IND-MSY-82.5%; MSY-IND-92.7%
WN IND-AUS-82.2%; AUS-IND-95.5%
WN IND-TPA-80.7%; TPA-IND-80.7
WN IND-MDW-77.3%; MDW-IND-76.3%
WN IND-MCI-65.0%; MCI-IND-70.2%

NK IND-MCO-86.2%; MCO-IND-87.9%
NK IND-LAS-85.9%; LAS-IND-85.2%

UA IND-DEN-83.4%; DEN-IND-89.6%
UA IND-SFO-81.2%; SFO-IND-89.1%
UA IND-ORD-83.0%; ORD-IND-88.8%
UA IND-IAH-92.5%; IAH-IND-86.1%
UA IND-IAD-77.9%; IAD-IND-82.3%
UA IND-EWR-80.0%; EWR-IND-81.5%

Rocketman1972 wrote:
Can one of you well informed a.net folks answer question for me? How many passengers fly from Indianapolis Paris and London separately. That is they do not go to CDG via Delta and then on to London nor did they fly to London and then on to CDG. I haven't been able to figure that out from all the information that you all have provided previously. And it would seem to speak to the ability of IND to support to TATL flights.You're probably just points to my lack of understanding how to appropriately interpret the data. Thank you!


I think the data you are looking for isn't publicly available, although I may be able to post some of that data in the next couple months, so we'll see on that.

For now we know that IND-LHR averages 48 PDEW year-round (with large swings seasonally), and that IND-CDG isn't not a major route for London passengers.

VTORD wrote:
[
Midwestindy wrote:
Only threat to the flight is the potential for another carrier to enter the IND-Europe market...

Do you envision a scenario where DL runs 4xCDG + 3xLHR (provided slots) so as not to cannibalize it's own flight?


It's hard to see from my POV, unless they get some sizable incentives. Given DL has run CVG/RDU-CDG once daily for this long without any changes, tells me they aren't eager to make moves on these sort of routes without a push.
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fedex1
Posts: 362
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:25 pm

How does a FA get to say I want IND base for the summer / fall?!? Have to live in IND? Seniority? Could some one explain the base, and how it works, and who calls it home for the short time?!
 
VTORD
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:41 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
LF data

July Int’l
DL IND-CDG-71.4%, CDG-IND-89.3% (42% increase in pax on IND-CDG, 4.5% decrease in pax on CDG-IND)
- Comparables:
- BA BNA-LHR-71.3%; LHR-BNA-94.0% (Daily)
- BA MSY-LHR-67.1%; LHR-MSY-87.8% (Less than daily)
- BA PIT-LHR-76.6%; LHR-PIT-93.0% (Less than daily)
- DL RDU-CDG-81.3%; CDG-RDU-89.2%
- DL CVG-CDG-76.5%; CDG-CVG-89.3%
- DL TPA-AMS-71.8%; AMS-TPA-93.2%

So pretty much in the ball park for comparable flights. Cool. Did IND-CDG negatively impact the CVG flight to some extent?

Midwestindy wrote:
It's hard to see from my POV, unless they get some sizable incentives. Given DL has run CVG/RDU-CDG once daily for this long without any changes, tells me they aren't eager to make moves on these sort of routes without a push.

Makes sense when you put it that way. Thanks for the perspective!
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:52 pm

Some schedule change info:
With IND-BOS added, AA will be up to 46 departures/day at IND. AA will run IND-BOS at 7am & 4:30pm, and BOS-IND at 9:55am & 7:45PM. I think AA could get to 50 departures/day in the near future.
DL is increasing IND-DTW to 8 daily in August, bringing them to 42 departures/day. IND-LAX/SLC are now listed as B738 through December, SLC/SEA are also listed as daily through Dec as opposed to the 6x weekly schedule they have ran in the past.

Should be interesting to watch moving forward, I don't think AA or DL are done for this summer

VTORD wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
LF data

July Int’l
DL IND-CDG-71.4%, CDG-IND-89.3% (42% increase in pax on IND-CDG, 4.5% decrease in pax on CDG-IND)
- Comparables:
- BA BNA-LHR-71.3%; LHR-BNA-94.0% (Daily)
- BA MSY-LHR-67.1%; LHR-MSY-87.8% (Less than daily)
- BA PIT-LHR-76.6%; LHR-PIT-93.0% (Less than daily)
- DL RDU-CDG-81.3%; CDG-RDU-89.2%
- DL CVG-CDG-76.5%; CDG-CVG-89.3%
- DL TPA-AMS-71.8%; AMS-TPA-93.2%

So pretty much in the ball park for comparable flights. Cool. Did IND-CDG negatively impact the CVG flight to some extent?


Hard to tell, but I'll say no. DL has been playing around with pricing more on the CVG-CDG flight, so any increases/decreases in CVG-CDG LFs are probably indicative of that, as opposed to the IND-CDG flight.
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pmanni1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:13 pm

DL IND-BOS-69.0%; BOS-IND-70.7% Interesting that AA & DL will be fighting over these loads.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:45 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
DL IND-BOS-69.0%; BOS-IND-70.7% Interesting that AA & DL will be fighting over these loads.


Something behind the scenes is at play, and I suspect DL lost a few corporate contracts to AA. In Q3 2019 AA was capturing 50 PDEW on IND-BOS without even offering nonstop service....

Loads were high 70s-80s until WN dropped to Saturday only in June
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garybow
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:25 pm

According to an article in Forbes, AA is testing/experimenting with a p2p strategy that targets cities with business sectors that have strong intersections. Boston, Indianapolis, Raleigh, Austin, and NC are all strong and emerging technology hubs.
 
beerbus
Posts: 98
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:51 pm

fedex1 wrote:
How does a FA get to say I want IND base for the summer / fall?!? Have to live in IND? Seniority? Could some one explain the base, and how it works, and who calls it home for the short time?!


1. You need a clean work record to apply. i.e. Timely completion of computer based learning stuff, non-abuse of sick calls, etc....
2. An applicant to the temporary base needs to live within 75 miles of KIND.
3. Applicants are then ranked by seniority order.
4. There are separate seniority lists for Purser qualified and non-Purser qualified staff.
5. Positions at the base are then filled in seniority order.

When the base closes (when the schedule is reduced each fall) FA's go back to their previous base.

Most of the folks are normally commuting to DTW, CVG, NYC, ATL.
 
beerbus
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:41 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:52 pm

fedex1 wrote:
How does a FA get to say I want IND base for the summer / fall?!? Have to live in IND? Seniority? Could some one explain the base, and how it works, and who calls it home for the short time?!


1. You need a clean work record to apply. i.e. Timely completion of computer based learning stuff, non-abuse of sick calls, etc....
2. An applicant to the temporary base needs to live within 75 miles of KIND.
3. Applicants are then ranked by seniority order.
4. There are separate seniority lists for Purser qualified and non-Purser qualified staff.
5. Positions at the base are then filled in seniority order.

When the base closes (when the schedule is reduced each fall) FA's go back to their previous base.

Most of the folks are normally commuting to DTW, CVG, NYC, ATL.
 
beerbus
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:52 pm

delete plz
 
fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:45 pm

Thank you!
 
Bluegrass60
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:13 pm

garybow wrote:
According to an article in Forbes, AA is testing/experimenting with a p2p strategy that targets cities with business sectors that have strong intersections. Boston, Indianapolis, Raleigh, Austin, and NC are all strong and emerging technology hubs.


"Hi, could you point me to the Forbes article you cite from?"
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:07 pm

Bluegrass60 wrote:
garybow wrote:
According to an article in Forbes, AA is testing/experimenting with a p2p strategy that targets cities with business sectors that have strong intersections. Boston, Indianapolis, Raleigh, Austin, and NC are all strong and emerging technology hubs.


"Hi, could you point me to the Forbes article you cite from?"


While not the Forbes article, this is from boston.com:

This is what they said when AUS-BOS was announced:
“Our customers have expressed the desire for more routes between major tech cities, and we’re pleased to respond to their needs by helping them reach these important destinations with ease,” said Alison Taylor, senior vice president of global sales and distribution, in a press release

This is what they said when RDU/IND-BOS were announced:
“Boston is an important market, and we are happy to provide new and increased service to places that matter the most to our customers,” said Vasu Raja, senior vice president of network strategy"
https://www.boston.com/travel/travel/20 ... h-carolina

Although, IND/RDU-BOS is more about Life Sciences than Tech I believe
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:45 pm

I think there is a chance IND gets more p2p flights:
There is a case for DL to add IND-MIA (seasonally daily), or to add a 2nd MCO(2x E175/CR9) now that they have routes to rotate the regional jets on.
IND-SAN is a sleeper for p2p, but it is also such a large market that is unserved that it may be enticing enough for an airline to try it
IND-MCI, if WN ever drops it
IND-AUS/SAT

Most of these could be operated by E70/75s out of the YX base
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floridaflyboy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:28 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
DL IND-SLC-90.8%; SLC-IND-93.5%


I love that SLC-IND is the highest LF route for DL in IND. I remember when that route was A) Delta Connection and B) Seasonal when it went mainline. Fantastic that it has grown into this. SLC is a great hub for western connections. It will be even more so once the new terminal opens.
Good goes around!
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:41 pm

https://www.ind.com/welcome-to-routes-americas-2020

IND added a Routes Americas page to their website, here are some things I found interesting:

"In March 2019, Spirit Airlines became the newest airline to offers flights out of the Indy airport – which is now served by almost every major airline in the United States (all except JetBlue)"
- Thought it was funny that they explicitly said "all except Jetblue"

What kind of incentives does IND offer for new service?
"The IND air service package aligns with that permitted by the FAA including landing fee waivers, rent credits, and marketing support. We shine by bringing in our strategic community partners who understand the value of air service connectivity. As such, the State of Indiana has allocated $20 million to invest in growing international air service.

In addition, IND works closely with tourism groups around the city and state to ensure support of new routes. We also align with the airline’s goals and provide introductions to the appropriate community leaders and community groups as they expand their investment in Indianapolis."

What are IND's most desired unserved routes?
With all of this in mind, the IND air service strategy continues to focus on increased service both domestic and international markets, including the:
- West Coast of the U.S.
- Drive markets from Indianapolis such as St. Louis, Nashville, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Memphis, Cleveland and more
- International markets in Canada, Mexico and Europe
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
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zackary747
Posts: 753
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:10 am

Midwestindy wrote:
https://www.ind.com/welcome-to-routes-americas-2020

IND added a Routes Americas page to their website, here are some things I found interesting:

"In March 2019, Spirit Airlines became the newest airline to offers flights out of the Indy airport – which is now served by almost every major airline in the United States (all except JetBlue)"
- Thought it was funny that they explicitly said "all except Jetblue"

What kind of incentives does IND offer for new service?
"The IND air service package aligns with that permitted by the FAA including landing fee waivers, rent credits, and marketing support. We shine by bringing in our strategic community partners who understand the value of air service connectivity. As such, the State of Indiana has allocated $20 million to invest in growing international air service.

In addition, IND works closely with tourism groups around the city and state to ensure support of new routes. We also align with the airline’s goals and provide introductions to the appropriate community leaders and community groups as they expand their investment in Indianapolis."

What are IND's most desired unserved routes?
With all of this in mind, the IND air service strategy continues to focus on increased service both domestic and international markets, including the:
- West Coast of the U.S.
- Drive markets from Indianapolis such as St. Louis, Nashville, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Memphis, Cleveland and more
- International markets in Canada, Mexico and Europe


Put JetBlue on blast there did they. lol
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kindeham
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:43 am

Midwestindy wrote:
https://www.ind.com/welcome-to-routes-americas-2020

"In March 2019, Spirit Airlines became the newest airline to offers flights out of the Indy airport – which is now served by almost every major airline in the United States (all except JetBlue)"
- Thought it was funny that they explicitly said "all except Jetblue"


That's hilarious! Certainly seems like they are poking at JetBlue there. It would also have been comical if they would have omitted JetBlue and the word "almost" as if to say JetBlue isn't a major in the eyes of Indy. Perhaps could have even said, "which is now served by all important major airlines" or something.

Midwestindy wrote:
What are IND's most desired unserved routes?
With all of this in mind, the IND air service strategy continues to focus on increased service both domestic and international markets, including the:
- West Coast of the U.S.
- Drive markets from Indianapolis such as St. Louis, Nashville, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Memphis, Cleveland and more
- International markets in Canada, Mexico and Europe


Interesting to note that the rhetoric about Asia is now missing. Although I am sure this is a pipe dream, would be interesting if DL was to put RJ's on those drive markets and turn IND into some sort of focus city. The right timings make for some interesting connection opportunities, all the while providing service to those unserved cities. Doubt it will happen, but would be interesting.
 
SDFguy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:58 pm

kindeham wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
What are IND's most desired unserved routes?
With all of this in mind, the IND air service strategy continues to focus on increased service both domestic and international markets, including the:
- West Coast of the U.S.
- Drive markets from Indianapolis such as St. Louis, Nashville, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Memphis, Cleveland and more
- International markets in Canada, Mexico and Europe


Interesting to note that the rhetoric about Asia is now missing. Although I am sure this is a pipe dream, would be interesting if DL was to put RJ's on those drive markets and turn IND into some sort of focus city. The right timings make for some interesting connection opportunities, all the while providing service to those unserved cities. Doubt it will happen, but would be interesting.


Yes, anyone with common sense knew all the BS about a flight from IND to Asia was just hot air. Nothing about it was based in reality.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:58 pm

Quote from Mario Rodriguez at the board meeting (talking about Routes Americas): "We may have an announcement during this conference that will benefit the entire community, but I'll keep that, since I have been sworn to secrecy"

:stirthepot:

-Looks like NK extended their schedule, looks like MYR is gone, and RSW transitions to a A319. With WN going to be trimming their summer schedule soon, we will likely see even higher LFs than last summer.

Higher LFs have led IND's avg fares to climb way up, higher than any of its peer markets:
Q3 2019
IND-$360.18
CMH-$358.61
PIT-$353.60
CVG-$314.37
CLE-$307.93


kindeham wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
https://www.ind.com/welcome-to-routes-americas-2020

"In March 2019, Spirit Airlines became the newest airline to offers flights out of the Indy airport – which is now served by almost every major airline in the United States (all except JetBlue)"
- Thought it was funny that they explicitly said "all except Jetblue"


That's hilarious! Certainly seems like they are poking at JetBlue there. It would also have been comical if they would have omitted JetBlue and the word "almost" as if to say JetBlue isn't a major in the eyes of Indy. Perhaps could have even said, "which is now served by all important major airlines" or something.

Midwestindy wrote:
What are IND's most desired unserved routes?
With all of this in mind, the IND air service strategy continues to focus on increased service both domestic and international markets, including the:
- West Coast of the U.S.
- Drive markets from Indianapolis such as St. Louis, Nashville, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Memphis, Cleveland and more
- International markets in Canada, Mexico and Europe


Interesting to note that the rhetoric about Asia is now missing. Although I am sure this is a pipe dream, would be interesting if DL was to put RJ's on those drive markets and turn IND into some sort of focus city. The right timings make for some interesting connection opportunities, all the while providing service to those unserved cities. Doubt it will happen, but would be interesting.


Asia is a 3-5 year target, the ones listed are 1-2 year targets

https://d1j6zi7czwjuok.cloudfront.net/i ... 0709140703

Also worth noting that hardly any airlines from Asia will be there anyway.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:14 pm

AC IND-YYZ is switching to the CR9 starting May 1-September 7
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:15 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
AC IND-YYZ is switching to the CR9 starting May 1-September 7


FINALLY!
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:09 pm

"The longer routes, many coast-to-coast, take up a lot of aircraft time and are a less efficient use of the airline’s resources. In addition, they burn a lot of fuel, making them more appropriate for newer airplanes with better fuel economy, like the 737 Max.

If the Max cancellation goes further than June, as now expected, Southwest may look to slash other longer-haul routes, executives said."

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/southwes ... 42604.html

Makes me wonder which of the IND-SAN/OAK/LAX/PHX/LAS routes will see cuts
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:02 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
"The longer routes, many coast-to-coast, take up a lot of aircraft time and are a less efficient use of the airline’s resources. In addition, they burn a lot of fuel, making them more appropriate for newer airplanes with better fuel economy, like the 737 Max.

If the Max cancellation goes further than June, as now expected, Southwest may look to slash other longer-haul routes, executives said."

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/southwes ... 42604.html

Makes me wonder which of the IND-SAN/OAK/LAX/PHX/LAS routes will see cuts


Looks like we're gonna have to ride out another wave of the storm.
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stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:29 pm

San Diego and Oakland would be a no brainer.

If Los Angeles goes entirely, I would be surprised since they have devoted so many resources there. I would presume Southwest would want to avoid situations of "say bye bye to Los Angeles" and then four weeks later - "book nonstop to Los Angeles!"

I'd say Las Vegas and Phoenix are definitely in the safe zone, if at the very least, a frequency reduction here or there for a seasonal dip.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:32 pm

stlgph wrote:
San Diego and Oakland would be a no brainer.

If Los Angeles goes entirely, I would be surprised since they have devoted so many resources there. I would presume Southwest would want to avoid situations of "say bye bye to Los Angeles" and then four weeks later - "book nonstop to Los Angeles!"

I'd say Las Vegas and Phoenix are definitely in the safe zone, if at the very least, a frequency reduction here or there for a seasonal dip.


To be fair LA is already off the schedules from now until early June.
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HeeseokKoo
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:35 pm

zackary747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
AC IND-YYZ is switching to the CR9 starting May 1-September 7


FINALLY!

... but 2 instead of 3 a day. 10am flight is cancelled.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:22 am

stlgph wrote:
San Diego and Oakland would be a no brainer.

If Los Angeles goes entirely, I would be surprised since they have devoted so many resources there. I would presume Southwest would want to avoid situations of "say bye bye to Los Angeles" and then four weeks later - "book nonstop to Los Angeles!"

I'd say Las Vegas and Phoenix are definitely in the safe zone, if at the very least, a frequency reduction here or there for a seasonal dip.


Interestingly enough, IND-SAN actually survived last summers MAX cuts, although this summer's cuts could be much worse since I believe they scheduled way more MAX's in for S20 + they have been retiring older aircraft.

If IND-SAN goes away that would be huge for all the rest of the carriers offering west coast flights. IND-SAN is 200+ PDEW in June/July, IND-OAK is 100 PDEW, so there will be plenty of market up for grabs if those and other routes are cut. My guess is, cut IND-OAK, IND-PHX -1, IND-LAS -1, and I think IND-SAN/LAX might be moved to Saturday only.

With that in mind, I am interested in what LFs will look like this summer, considering these were from last June:
G4 IND-LAS-94.9%; LAS-IND-95.8%
AA IND-LAX-97.4%; LAX-IND-95.2%
AA IND-PHX-96.6%; PHX-IND-97.5%
DL IND-LAX-94.4%; LAX-IND-94.2%
DL IND-SLC-93.7%; SLC-IND-95.7%
NK IND-LAS-90.8%; LAS-IND-94.0%
F9 IND-LAS-95.1%; LAS-IND-96.3%
WN IND-PHX-94.2%; PHX-IND-95.3%
WN IND-SAN-89.0%; SAN-IND-96.0%
WN IND-DEN-93.1%; DEN-IND-94.4%
UA IND-DEN-95.0%; DEN-IND-92.9%
WN IND-LAX-95.9%; LAX-IND-97.6%
WN IND-LAS-95.1%; LAS-IND-92.7%
WN IND-OAK-94.6%; OAK-IND-88.1%

This makes me think DL will be willing to fill some of that pent up west coast demand for this upcoming summer, but that remains to be seen....

HeeseokKoo wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
AC IND-YYZ is switching to the CR9 starting May 1-September 7


FINALLY!

... but 2 instead of 3 a day. 10am flight is cancelled.


3 a day comes back from Sep 8th-Oct 23rd, but either way I would much rather have 2xCR9 than 3x CR2.

From my understanding, IND-YYZ 6am is mostly O&D and intra Canada connections, IND-YYZ 4-5pm is mostly about TATL connections, so I don't necessarily see the loss of the 3rd midday flight as very negative since it is offset by the CR9s. The loss of the 10am IND-YYZ flight appears to mostly impact TPAC connections, and likely won't impact O&D much. With UA is upping IND-ORD to 10x daily, there really shouldn't be a loss of connecting TPAC traffic on Star Alliance
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HeeseokKoo
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:42 am

Midwestindy wrote:
HeeseokKoo wrote:
zackary747 wrote:

FINALLY!

... but 2 instead of 3 a day. 10am flight is cancelled.


3 a day comes back from Sep 8th-Oct 23rd, but either way I would much rather have 2xCR9 than 3x CR2.

From my understanding, IND-YYZ 6am is mostly O&D and intra Canada connections, IND-YYZ 4-5pm is mostly about TATL connections, so I don't necessarily see the loss of the 3rd midday flight as very negative since it is offset by the CR9s. The loss of the 10am IND-YYZ flight appears to mostly impact TPAC connections, and likely won't impact O&D much. With UA is upping IND-ORD to 10x daily, there really shouldn't be a loss of connecting TPAC traffic on Star Alliance

I appreciate your insight. Guess I'm unhappy with my schedule change in June, and 6am flight is probably too early for O&D, but your description makes sense.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:54 pm

Leading up to Routes Americas, anna aero posted a write up about IND air service:
https://www.anna.aero/2020/01/24/indian ... ent-167902

Image
Image

Mentioned earlier, but reiterated in the article

Indy’s route development strategy currently consists of two main areas: bolstering North American connectivity and adding new services to Europe. Maggie Bishop, Air Service Development Analyst said: “Our air service strategy continues to focus on increased service both domestic and international markets, including:

West Coast of the U.S.
Drive markets from Indianapolis such as St. Louis, Nashville, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Memphis, Cleveland and more
International markets in Canada, Mexico and Europe
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:42 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Leading up to Routes Americas, anna aero posted a write up about IND air service:
https://www.anna.aero/2020/01/24/indian ... ent-167902

Image
Image

Mentioned earlier, but reiterated in the article

Indy’s route development strategy currently consists of two main areas: bolstering North American connectivity and adding new services to Europe. Maggie Bishop, Air Service Development Analyst said: “Our air service strategy continues to focus on increased service both domestic and international markets, including:

West Coast of the U.S.
Drive markets from Indianapolis such as St. Louis, Nashville, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Memphis, Cleveland and more
International markets in Canada, Mexico and Europe


Article was removed and reuploaded with new data:
https://www.anna.aero/2020/01/24/indian ... pproaches/

Image

Seasonality is worth noting, MSY, PDX, and SAT have large seasonal swings that put each over 100 PDEW during the summer.

Had no idea, IND-PIT/MKE were that large though, definitely makes them candidates for some RJ service.
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msycajun
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:18 pm

Midwestindy wrote:

Seasonality is worth noting, MSY, PDX, and SAT have large seasonal swings that put each over 100 PDEW during the summer.

Had no idea, IND-PIT/MKE were that large though, definitely makes them candidates for some RJ service.


I'm surprised NK hasn't jumped on IND-MSY yet. I haven't checked the most recent numbers, but IND-MSY fares have been significantly higher than MSY-CVG/CMH/CLE and has a paltry 2.5 months of 2 weekly service on G4. Compare to CVG-MSY which has up to 4 weekly G4 and 2 weekly F9 this spring. It seems like NK could do something similar to CLE-MSY where it's 3 weekly most of the year, and 2 weekly during off periods.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:20 pm

msycajun wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Seasonality is worth noting, MSY, PDX, and SAT have large seasonal swings that put each over 100 PDEW during the summer.

Had no idea, IND-PIT/MKE were that large though, definitely makes them candidates for some RJ service.


I'm surprised NK hasn't jumped on IND-MSY yet. I haven't checked the most recent numbers, but IND-MSY fares have been significantly higher than MSY-CVG/CMH/CLE and has a paltry 2.5 months of 2 weekly service on G4. Compare to CVG-MSY which has up to 4 weekly G4 and 2 weekly F9 this spring. It seems like NK could do something similar to CLE-MSY where it's 3 weekly most of the year, and 2 weekly during off periods.


I'm sure it's just a matter of time.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:16 pm

Not much in the way of changes from AA/DL, DL is adding an A321 on IND-LAX for the last half of August, and there were a few other minor increases during that period as well.

UA is again scheduled to run IND-IAH on all 50 seaters, very odd considering no other airport of IND's size has service to IAH like that. Only explanation I can think of is IND-HOU is 2x daily, where most comparable markets have 1-0 daily flights to HOU.

IND-DEN is listed as E75, E70, & B739, an increase yoy. They'd probably like to expand this route, but WN 4-5 daily + F9 daily are a large obstacle yield wise.
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ibthebigd
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:18 pm

That's sad IND-IAH is all 50 seaters. I did it back in the Continental days and it was the most miserable flight ever.

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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:06 am

Any updates on how the Sky Club is holding up during the busy times of the day. Given how long it takes to plan and execute a club expansion, and given DL's growth rate at IND, how long do they have to pull the trigger on starting an expansion plan? How do they expand? Is there room upstairs or downstairs to expand the club? I'm not really a fan of basement level clubs, but a basement level club is better than an overcrowded club.
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YYCFlier
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:37 am

Midwestindy wrote:
AC IND-YYZ is switching to the CR9 starting May 1-September 7


Oh happy day!!
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:05 pm

Indy wrote:
Any updates on how the Sky Club is holding up during the busy times of the day. Given how long it takes to plan and execute a club expansion, and given DL's growth rate at IND, how long do they have to pull the trigger on starting an expansion plan? How do they expand? Is there room upstairs or downstairs to expand the club? I'm not really a fan of basement level clubs, but a basement level club is better than an overcrowded club.


Haven't been to the IND Sky Club in quite some time, but I have a friend who is there at least 1-2 times a month, and they have said that it normally isn't completely full but it isn't ever empty. (They usually use the club at off-peak times as well)

From my understanding, there is no room to expand the club. Directly below the club are the baggage handling belts, and I believe above is not that high and contains a lot of wiring, heating/cooling, and other systems that can't really be moved. (Have not been what is above, only below, so I can only speculate)

I think IND & RDU are in the same boat, no real room for further expansion of the DL clubs, unless the location were to be moved.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:36 pm

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 95111.html

Allegiant is now the official airline of the Indianapolis Colts.

Nice to see G4 with the Colts and WN with the Pacers.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:34 pm

zackary747 wrote:
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/allegiant-becomes-official-airline-of-the-indianapolis-colts-300995111.html

Allegiant is now the official airline of the Indianapolis Colts.

Nice to see G4 with the Colts and WN with the Pacers.


“Our employees live, work and raise their families in Indianapolis, so we truly strive to be Indy’s hometown airline,” said Allegiant’s DeAngelo. “Entering into this partnership with the Colts demonstrates that we are invested in the city in every possible way, and we’re constantly looking for new ways to further embed ourselves into the fabric of the community.”
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indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:34 pm

zackary747 wrote:
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/allegiant-becomes-official-airline-of-the-indianapolis-colts-300995111.html

Allegiant is now the official airline of the Indianapolis Colts.

Nice to see G4 with the Colts and WN with the Pacers.


Nice to have an official airline. But last time I checked they might be able to get you to only a small handful of destinations where the Colts might have an away game. Clearly not a deal breaker. But I do find it ironic.

Anyone here taking guesses as to what Mario's big surprise is to be shared next week?
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