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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:58 pm

COSPN wrote:
I don’t think IND-CDG will ever return as the State of Indiana is now broke they spent their 2billion dollar reserve funds in Covid 19 expenses .. and the Unemployment payments are underfunded.

So unless a private company can subsidize the flight there will be no state money spent
On it


Incentives were provided by a new tax created on trucking companies, that pool of money is not tied to Indiana's yearly budget. The money was already paid to the state and distributed to various funds, and $20M was already permanently set aside for air service development.

https://www.ibj.com/articles/70344-holc ... -road-fees

Also the state of Indiana is not broke, the reserve funds are put in place for this exact situation. Finally, the state hasn't used all their reserve funds yet, but are planning to in the 2021 budget.
https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/gov ... 61c63.html
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Continental767
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:45 am

[twoid][/twoid]
Midwestindy wrote:
Continental767 wrote:
I had a random question about IND, so I thought this would be the place to ask. Let’s say that DL’s IND-CDG route resumes and eventually uses equipment other than a 763: 764, A330, etc. Or BA comes with a 787. Are gates A4 and A5 ready to handle aircraft larger than a 767? A 763 has a significantly smaller wingspan than other wide bodies, so I wondered if the gates would need to be changed.

If I remember correctly, A5 was built to handle an A330 due to a possible NW intl expansion, though that obviously never materialized. But I was wondering if this was accurate at all. Are there maybe schematics or dimensions available anywhere?



Unfortunately the link I have no longer works, but anything under a B747 isn't an issue from my understanding. Once you get to a B747, you would only be able to use one gate at a time.

These are a 777 & 787 parked at A5
Image
Image


Thanks so much, really cool to see.
Indianapolis.
 
airboss787
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:23 am

Midwestindy wrote:
COSPN wrote:
I don’t think IND-CDG will ever return as the State of Indiana is now broke they spent their 2billion dollar reserve funds in Covid 19 expenses .. and the Unemployment payments are underfunded.

So unless a private company can subsidize the flight there will be no state money spent
On it


Incentives were provided by a new tax created on trucking companies, that pool of money is not tied to Indiana's yearly budget. The money was already paid to the state and distributed to various funds, and $20M was already permanently set aside for air service development.

https://www.ibj.com/articles/70344-holc ... -road-fees

Also the state of Indiana is not broke, the reserve funds are put in place for this exact situation. Finally, the state hasn't used all their reserve funds yet, but are planning to in the 2021 budget.
https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/gov ... 61c63.html


And with a AAA credit rating, borrowing shouldn’t be that hard.
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hayzel777
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:54 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
West coast connections are an issue right now. Many smaller cities you can’t get to in one day right now, if at all.
Plus, United’s cuts have them getting clobbered in what little market share there is.


It looks like the connection issue may be getting easier this month at least from IND, there are a decent amount of flights to DEN, LAS, & PHX scheduled.

I'd imagine it would be pretty hard to justify flying a route like IND-SFO with capacity caps on flights, and little business traffic. I would probably add an additional DEN flight first, unless maybe Roche or some other company wants the route back quickly.

I would think Lilly is the driver on this one. Access to Asia.

Roche is the main driver on the SFO-IND route, following their acquisition of Genentech that’s out of the Bay Area.

When the top 10 SFO business contract list was leaked for UA, Roche was one of the top, grouped with Facebook and Google!
 
COSPN
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:14 pm

The Reserve funds have been spent .. I don’t think Indiana will borrow money to fly to Europe they will have to borrow to pay the unemployment claims ... 2024 or later Mabe it will come back Almost A “ normal schedule “ for UA in Aug so things are moving in the right direction
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:34 pm

COSPN wrote:
The Reserve funds have been spent .. I don’t think Indiana will borrow money to fly to Europe they will have to borrow to pay the unemployment claims ... 2024 or later Mabe it will come back Almost A “ normal schedule “ for UA in Aug so things are moving in the right direction


Did you read any of the articles I posted? If so they contradict what you are saying

hayzel777 wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

It looks like the connection issue may be getting easier this month at least from IND, there are a decent amount of flights to DEN, LAS, & PHX scheduled.

I'd imagine it would be pretty hard to justify flying a route like IND-SFO with capacity caps on flights, and little business traffic. I would probably add an additional DEN flight first, unless maybe Roche or some other company wants the route back quickly.

I would think Lilly is the driver on this one. Access to Asia.

Roche is the main driver on the SFO-IND route, following their acquisition of Genentech that’s out of the Bay Area.

When the top 10 SFO business contract list was leaked for UA, Roche was one of the top, grouped with Facebook and Google!


Apparently there has been a lot coordination between the Indy & Bay Area teams over the last few months over COVID test kits, makes sense that they might want a nonstop flight back.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:55 pm

IND is opening the economy lot back up, as well as opening up more stores for July in response to increased travel.
https://www.ind.com/about/media/media-r ... s-response

Based on most recent numbers, IND had 4,200 TSA screenings on June 5 compared to 2,568 on May 23rd. Normal days are around 14,000
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COSPN
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:51 pm

That article is from 2018 Indiana is now “broke” will have to borrow to pay unemployment University and all departments budgets cut by 15 %
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:42 pm

WN is adding back IND-RSW in August, and also adding back an additional TPA flight in August.

For August, UA adding 2 additional flights over its July schedule, additional turns to EWR & ORD, looks like no 50 seaters other than the CRJ550. They probably would have added a 3rd DEN, if not for IND-SFO running

AA's August is basically the same as July
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:26 pm

IND was at 31.7% of last years passengers as of June 19, probably close to 40% for July 4th and most of July before the drop off in early August-early October when NK/G4 run much smaller schedules.

I flew in from DEN on Monday and noticed all the parked WN planes were gone, and many of the YX birds as well.
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indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:51 pm

Seeing the news today that DL will be retiring some of its B767-300s has me thinking it could be a miracle if IND-CDG sticks.
 
flyboy80
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:23 pm

Perhaps we'll see a lesser emphasis on the previous hub flying versus some of Delta's p2p trans oceanic network moving forward. Yes, these non-hub flights rely on a stronger base of travelers for their existence without the hub connection and feed opportunities, but I've noticed a lot of companies and people working for companies, are relocating to places outside major cities. Perhaps the actual demand comes back at a faster pace in some of the secondary markets. I won't be surprised if we see DL continue to operate a Europe flight come summer 21, but would imagine several other parts of the network (think seasonal NYC) are cut big time. Either way, I think it's a matter of a year or two before IND get another Europe flight, wether thats DL or not.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:39 pm

flyboy80 wrote:
Perhaps we'll see a lesser emphasis on the previous hub flying versus some of Delta's p2p trans oceanic network moving forward. Yes, these non-hub flights rely on a stronger base of travelers for their existence without the hub connection and feed opportunities, but I've noticed a lot of companies and people working for companies, are relocating to places outside major cities. Perhaps the actual demand comes back at a faster pace in some of the secondary markets. I won't be surprised if we see DL continue to operate a Europe flight come summer 21, but would imagine several other parts of the network (think seasonal NYC) are cut big time. Either way, I think it's a matter of a year or two before IND get another Europe flight, wether thats DL or not.


I think DL said they were going to focus more on hubs and less on p2p or something to that effect, at least for INTL, back when this started.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:58 am

flyboy80 wrote:
Perhaps we'll see a lesser emphasis on the previous hub flying versus some of Delta's p2p trans oceanic network moving forward. Yes, these non-hub flights rely on a stronger base of travelers for their existence without the hub connection and feed opportunities, but I've noticed a lot of companies and people working for companies, are relocating to places outside major cities. Perhaps the actual demand comes back at a faster pace in some of the secondary markets. I won't be surprised if we see DL continue to operate a Europe flight come summer 21, but would imagine several other parts of the network (think seasonal NYC) are cut big time. Either way, I think it's a matter of a year or two before IND get another Europe flight, wether thats DL or not.


I would be shocked if DL operates the flight next summer, the reality I'm seeing is networks and priorities will change after COVID (not necessarily saying that IND-CDG will never return). For example, technically DL still has IND-SEA/LAX/MCO/CDG/RDU on the schedule, but how many of these will return in 1-2 years?

The reality I see is that AA, WN, and G4 will be the biggest players in IND in the next couple years. If DL isn't the #1 US3 in IND anymore, the value of IND-CDG goes way down for them. For the consumer as well, if DL isn't operating IND-SEA/MCO/BOS/CDG/e.t.c why would I choose them over AA?

We'll see what happens, however the incentive $$ will likely be necessary if DL decides to drop IND-CDG permanently.

Also I agree, we are seeing demand come back faster in secondary markets, IND was at ~34% of last years TSA screenings on June 26, the national average for that date was 23.2%. However, it is unclear how or if that will change airline strategy in the short/long-term.
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flyboy80
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:58 pm

The real estate market ought to tell us a bit of information in the coming months. I know of numerous people relocating as divisions of companies are going virtual full-time with offices closing. These people are leaving their apartments and looking to move. At the same time, companies (especially smaller ones) are doing a lot of subleasing office space and going virtual as well. Obviously there will be monthly or quarterly needs for team meetings etc in person. If this event focuses a higher emphasis on practical local economies, and there are relative population shifts therefore, I expect these "niche" (I think thats a terrible adjective) markets will have their place in airline networks. I think we're going to go through another revolution during this time period. Remember after 9/11 the RJ revolution- everyone wanted to only fly to and from the hubs with the smallest planes possible- a mainline flight was a rare treat. I think this time we're going to see more fragmentation and right-sizing of mainline and planes like the 321 XLR will be the rockstars- also pushes emphasis on Boeing to move forward with 797s. Honestly, with the crowded hubs and hate for connections, I think more and more leisure travelers will be interested in non-stop versus pre pandemic. As long as CVG still has a Paris flight, supported by the Cincinnati economy, I will have hope such a flight is at least as valuable for the economy and state of Indiana.
 
COSPN
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:19 pm

Indiana is flat broke spring and fall break at college is canceled .. They will run “straight through “ get out at thanksgiving and not return..

If not for FedEX IND would be millions of dollars in the red .. Delta is giving up gates ...Air Canada is gone.

Not all bad news Chick Fillet will reopen Thursday
 
indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:49 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
The reality I see is that AA, WN, and G4 will be the biggest players in IND in the next couple years. If DL isn't the #1 US3 in IND anymore, the value of IND-CDG goes way down for them. For the consumer as well, if DL isn't operating IND-SEA/MCO/BOS/CDG/e.t.c why would I choose them over AA?


Bit of a chicken and egg thing. Indeed, if DL cedes LAX and eliminates SEA/BOS and potentially others, it'll be tough to maintain their level of service. Indeed, I think WN and G4 have already been doing a bit better because the leisure traveler is returning right now, not the business traveler. For as long as that's the case, these business heavy routes will suffer.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:52 pm

flyboy80 wrote:
Perhaps we'll see a lesser emphasis on the previous hub flying versus some of Delta's p2p trans oceanic network moving forward. Yes, these non-hub flights rely on a stronger base of travelers for their existence without the hub connection and feed opportunities, but I've noticed a lot of companies and people working for companies, are relocating to places outside major cities. Perhaps the actual demand comes back at a faster pace in some of the secondary markets. I won't be surprised if we see DL continue to operate a Europe flight come summer 21, but would imagine several other parts of the network (think seasonal NYC) are cut big time. Either way, I think it's a matter of a year or two before IND get another Europe flight, wether thats DL or not.


As a fellow Hoosier I appreciate the optimism. But there is basically no chance IND-CDG returns. With the EU closed indefinitely to US citizens and DL scaling back at IND this route has no chance. IND was lucky to have had such service but it will be 10+ years (if at all) before IND has another direct link to Europe. The aviation world is completely changed with COVID and the city of Indy can’t justify the subsidies for such low loads.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:38 pm

flyboy80 wrote:
The real estate market ought to tell us a bit of information in the coming months. I know of numerous people relocating as divisions of companies are going virtual full-time with offices closing. These people are leaving their apartments and looking to move.


You might be on to something, June Central Indiana home sales were only down 3% yoy.....
https://www.ibj.com/articles/central-in ... ly-in-june

Unemployment in Indy is very low compared to the rest of the nation, for May it was only 10.2% and that was with stay at home orders in place until the end of the month. If you look at markets of similar size or larger, only Phoenix, Washington , Salt lake city, and Baltimore were lower.
https://www.bls.gov/web/metro/laulrgma.htm

Given none of Indy's largest employers are in sectors impacted severely by the virus I would expect Indy's economy to return faster than the national average.

COSPN wrote:
Indiana is flat broke spring and fall break at college is canceled .. They will run “straight through “ get out at thanksgiving and not return..

If not for FedEX IND would be millions of dollars in the red .. Delta is giving up gates ...Air Canada is gone.

Not all bad news Chick Fillet will reopen Thursday


As I have explained before, Indiana's budget or financial position does not impact the air service incentive dollars. The $25M has already been received (hence how they paid for IND-CDG), and by law it can only be used for air service incentives.

DL is giving up gates? I'm pretty sure they only lease 5, someone verified that upthread I believe.

AC I highly doubt is gone long-term

indygs wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
The reality I see is that AA, WN, and G4 will be the biggest players in IND in the next couple years. If DL isn't the #1 US3 in IND anymore, the value of IND-CDG goes way down for them. For the consumer as well, if DL isn't operating IND-SEA/MCO/BOS/CDG/e.t.c why would I choose them over AA?


Bit of a chicken and egg thing. Indeed, if DL cedes LAX and eliminates SEA/BOS and potentially others, it'll be tough to maintain their level of service. Indeed, I think WN and G4 have already been doing a bit better because the leisure traveler is returning right now, not the business traveler. For as long as that's the case, these business heavy routes will suffer.


If they cede 2/3 of those, AA has business travel locked up from IND, especially now since they can codeshare with AS on IND-SEA.

Still a bit frustrating IND has IND-SFO right now, and not IND-LAX/BOS.

clrd4t8koff wrote:
flyboy80 wrote:
Perhaps we'll see a lesser emphasis on the previous hub flying versus some of Delta's p2p trans oceanic network moving forward. Yes, these non-hub flights rely on a stronger base of travelers for their existence without the hub connection and feed opportunities, but I've noticed a lot of companies and people working for companies, are relocating to places outside major cities. Perhaps the actual demand comes back at a faster pace in some of the secondary markets. I won't be surprised if we see DL continue to operate a Europe flight come summer 21, but would imagine several other parts of the network (think seasonal NYC) are cut big time. Either way, I think it's a matter of a year or two before IND get another Europe flight, wether thats DL or not.


As a fellow Hoosier I appreciate the optimism. But there is basically no chance IND-CDG returns. With the EU closed indefinitely to US citizens and DL scaling back at IND this route has no chance. IND was lucky to have had such service but it will be 10+ years (if at all) before IND has another direct link to Europe. The aviation world is completely changed with COVID and the city of Indy can’t justify the subsidies for such low loads.


10+ years? I don't think so. I think a Euro flight(may not be IND-CDG) will be back when demand warrants it, but I can't see that being more than 5 years into the future.

The majority of onward connections for IND-CDG were to India (BOM/DEL/BLR), due to corporate ties between the regions. Given the time zone issues and nature of the work, you can't replace that business travel with video conferencing
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clrd4t8koff
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:34 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
10+ years? I don't think so. I think a Euro flight(may not be IND-CDG) will be back when demand warrants it, but I can't see that being more than 5 years into the future.

The majority of onward connections for IND-CDG were to India (BOM/DEL/BLR), due to corporate ties between the regions. Given the time zone issues and nature of the work, you can't replace that business travel with video conferencing


Huh?? IND doesn’t even have service to Canada anymore after AC pulled out, yet you think an airline is going to jump back on IND-EU within the next decade?? Thanks for the good laugh :rotfl:
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:17 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
10+ years? I don't think so. I think a Euro flight(may not be IND-CDG) will be back when demand warrants it, but I can't see that being more than 5 years into the future.

The majority of onward connections for IND-CDG were to India (BOM/DEL/BLR), due to corporate ties between the regions. Given the time zone issues and nature of the work, you can't replace that business travel with video conferencing


Huh?? IND doesn’t even have service to Canada anymore after AC pulled out, yet you think an airline is going to jump back on IND-EU within the next decade?? Thanks for the good laugh :rotfl:


Not sure what is confusing or funny there:

1. AC "pulled out" of the vast majority of US markets since the borders are closed, but YYZ-IND is scheduled to return May 1st. I verified this with my air service contact at IND, who again was told by AC they had no intention (at this point) of pulling out of IND

2. The most pessimistic airline analysts are expecting a full recovery by 2025, so I'm not sure where you are getting 2031+ for even the possibility of IND-Europe....
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flyboy80
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:15 pm

One reason I actually can see it not returning is the proximity to CVG, which has a more developed flight. I was told on numerous occasions, and very unofficially, that the CVG flight is considerably more profitable for Delta given the local area and need to travel but actually had lower demand vs the Indy flight during several months- something I thought was rather interesting. It wouldn't surprise me if Delta chose to move this flight to IND if indeed it becomes a question of "one or the other."

Skeptics said for years Portland couldn't sustain Europe or Japan. Even after Delta left the PDX Asia operation and scaled back they soon returned and kept the then NWA PDX- NRT service and through an economic downturn. Yes, PDX has differen't market dynamics, but those dynamics changed immensely in just the span of a few years to the extent AMS was being flown seasonally with an A330 and LHR was added. Demand changes, markets develop and grow. I believe that demand was building before this virus and will be sufficient enough to keep Delta interested in developing this market again. I flew the CDG flight at least twice per month since its inception. Not only was it sometimes packed with local Indiana, Ohio, and Kentucky tourists headed to Europe, there were many business travelers purposefully choosing not connect in ORD, EWR, JFK, IAD, CLT, or PHL. We are so hub-centric in our thinking- not everything must go through a North American hub because it's a U.S. based airline; the other side of this flight is a massive SkyTeam factory. I only ever talked with few who onward connections to India, but recall CDG's superior India connections were a large part of it being chose in the first place.
 
N292UX
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:26 pm

flyboy80 wrote:
One reason I actually can see it not returning is the proximity to CVG, which has a more developed flight. I was told on numerous occasions, and very unofficially, that the CVG flight is considerably more profitable for Delta given the local area and need to travel but actually had lower demand vs the Indy flight during several months- something I thought was rather interesting. It wouldn't surprise me if Delta chose to move this flight to IND if indeed it becomes a question of "one or the other."

I know one of the big advantages DL has with the CVG flight is they carry a lot of cargo for a few companies (correct me if I'm wrong but I think General Electric is one of them). So I'd assume if the CVG flight does sometimes have a slightly lower load than the IND flight, it still is making more money due to what is being carried in the cargo hold.
 
jplatts
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:43 pm

If DL drops IND-CDG nonstop service, DL's partner AF might be able to make IND-CDG nonstop service work due to
(a) AF codesharing with some non-SkyTeam airlines in Europe, Africa, the Middle East, and Central Asia that do not codeshare with DL,
(b) AF being able to offer connections to many destinations in Europe, Africa, the Middle East, and Central Asia through its CDG hub, and
(c) AF already having nonstop service out of CDG to a few non-DL hub airports in the U.S. such as ORD, IAH, MIA, SFO, and IAD.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:50 pm

The lowest loads you probably will ever see in your lifetime. I only bothered with outbound, but I assume inbound would be slightly higher

April Load Factors
AS IND-SEA-11.4%

G4 IND-PGD-22.1%
G4 IND-SRQ-18.4%
G4 IND-PIE-13.0%
G4 IND-FLL-10.7%
G4 IND-SFB-4.0%

AA IND-CLT-14.4%
AA IND-PHX-13.3%
AA IND-DFW-13.0%
AA IND-LAX-8.9%
AA IND-DCA-8.3%
AA IND-MIA-5.9%

DL IND-ATL-16.5%
DL IND-DTW-15.4%
DL IND-MSP-11.5%

F9 IND-DEN-18.2%
F9 IND-MCO-9.0%

NK IND-MCO-13.7%
NK IND-LAS-11.0%
NK IND-TPA-9.0%
NK IND-RSW-4.8%

WN IND-PHX-8.6%
WN IND-ATL-7.6%
WN IND-DAL-7.2%
WN IND-HOU-5.4%
WN IND-TPA-5.3%
WN IND-BWI-5.1%
WN IND-LAS-4.9%
WN IND-MCO-4.7%
WN IND-MCI-4.3%
WN IND-RSW-4.0%
WN IND-FLL-1.9%

UA IND-DEN-17.6%
UA IND-IAH-13.2%
UA IND-EWR-9.2%
UA IND-IAD-6.4%

Overall numbers:
IND-ORD-15.9%
IND-LGA-5.6%
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jplatts
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:41 am

Midwestindy wrote:
The lowest loads you probably will ever see in your lifetime. I only bothered with outbound, but I assume inbound would be slightly higher

April Load Factors
WN IND-PHX-8.6%
WN IND-ATL-7.6%
WN IND-DAL-7.2%
WN IND-HOU-5.4%
WN IND-TPA-5.3%
WN IND-BWI-5.1%
WN IND-LAS-4.9%
WN IND-MCO-4.7%
WN IND-MCI-4.3%
WN IND-RSW-4.0%
WN IND-FLL-1.9%


Here are the April 2020 load factors for WN flights to and from IND (both directions):
WN IND-PHX - 10.07%
WN IND-DEN - 9.19%
WN IND-DAL - 9.17%
WN IND-RSW - 8.32%
WN IND-ATL - 7.06%
WN IND-TPA - 6.17%
WN IND-HOU - 6.08%
WN IND-BWI - 5.92%
WN IND-MCO - 4.63%
WN IND-LAS - 4.41%
WN IND-MCI - 4.10%
WN IND-FLL - 2.71%
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:59 pm

DL pushed out its schedule through September, looks like IND-BOS *tentatively* starts 2x daily September 14, & IND-LGA increases to 3x daily


Some August cutbacks:
UA IND-ORD 4x down to 3x
DL IND-MSP 4x down to 3x
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FlyingElvii
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:26 pm

COSPN wrote:
Indiana is flat broke spring and fall break at college is canceled .. They will run “straight through “ get out at thanksgiving and not return..

If not for FedEX IND would be millions of dollars in the red .. Delta is giving up gates ...Air Canada is gone.

Not all bad news Chick Fillet will reopen Thursday


Delta announced Q2 Financials today. It is as bleak as was to be expected.

Passenger revenues down 94%, on 85% less traffic.
65% decline in Cargo, MRO, and loyalty revenues.
Those kind of numbers are unsustainable in any situation.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:09 pm

Surprisingly high June numbers
June pax -74.3% (-73.7% for domestic)
YTD pax -53.1%
June cargo +23.8% (expected this to remain flat with construction)

Traffic up +115.3% over May
All carriers around +100% over May, except DL at +46.8%, & WN/F9 at +150%

June '20 v June '19
G4 -30.5%
AS -54.7%
F9 -60.3%
WN -66.1%
NK -70.4%
AA -72.3%
UA -86.4%
DL -92.5%

Image

IND wasn't estimating a return to these traffic levels until August.

https://d1j6zi7czwjuok.cloudfront.net/i ... 0720165415
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:51 am

WN updated their October schedule, with a heavy focus on Florida.

MCI, LAX, & MDW removed, FLL & HOU reduced, RSW & STL added/increased

Saturday schedules will likely be reduced further, for example:
7x MCO
5x TPA
4x RSW
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pmanni1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:15 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
WN updated their October schedule, with a heavy focus on Florida.

MCI, LAX, & MDW removed, FLL & HOU reduced, RSW & STL added/increased

Saturday schedules will likely be reduced further, for example:
7x MCO
5x TPA
4x RSW

Will be interesting to see if all of that Florida sticks. Always surprised that MCI hung around as long as it did. It offered no connections that STL and DEN can't already provide.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:21 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
WN updated their October schedule, with a heavy focus on Florida.

MCI, LAX, & MDW removed, FLL & HOU reduced, RSW & STL added/increased

Saturday schedules will likely be reduced further, for example:
7x MCO
5x TPA
4x RSW

Will be interesting to see if all of that Florida sticks. Always surprised that MCI hung around as long as it did. It offered no connections that STL and DEN can't already provide.


Actually MCI is still on the schedule, they have it scheduled in addition to STL in November/December.

98% chance they extend the cut further, but it is wack that they have held on to it for this long. Never seen LFs above 70% monthly, and yields are not stellar
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Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:36 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
WN updated their October schedule, with a heavy focus on Florida.

MCI, LAX, & MDW removed, FLL & HOU reduced, RSW & STL added/increased

Saturday schedules will likely be reduced further, for example:
7x MCO
5x TPA
4x RSW

Will be interesting to see if all of that Florida sticks. Always surprised that MCI hung around as long as it did. It offered no connections that STL and DEN can't already provide.


Actually MCI is still on the schedule, they have it scheduled in addition to STL in November/December.

98% chance they extend the cut further, but it is wack that they have held on to it for this long. Never seen LFs above 70% monthly, and yields are not stellar


I assume you mean 70% of the 66% they can be? Since they obviously can’t be 70% at the moment
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:10 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
Will be interesting to see if all of that Florida sticks. Always surprised that MCI hung around as long as it did. It offered no connections that STL and DEN can't already provide.


Actually MCI is still on the schedule, they have it scheduled in addition to STL in November/December.

98% chance they extend the cut further, but it is wack that they have held on to it for this long. Never seen LFs above 70% monthly, and yields are not stellar


I assume you mean 70% of the 66% they can be? Since they obviously can’t be 70% at the moment


I was referring to the IND-MCI route specifically, as in I rarely if ever have seen that route above 70% LF monthly. They haven't run IND-MCI since March
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:12 pm

I lived near RDU for 14 months and now I am in OKC. I will still keep track of things here. Anything new going on? How is the FX construction progressing?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:56 pm

Indy wrote:
I lived near RDU for 14 months and now I am in OKC. I will still keep track of things here. Anything new going on? How is the FX construction progressing?


A few new routes were announced during the pandemic:
WN-STL
NK-FLL


I think there are 3 active FedEx projects right now
1. New sort building
-Essentially complete, inside is finished or close to done
2. Apron expansion
-Most of the dirt is cleared, and work is continuing on laying the pavement. Not going to be completed until at least next year
3. New flight ops center
-Foundation is laid down, but the building hasn't gone vertical yet


I have a friend whose firm is designing the 3rd parallel runway, so apparently that is still happening sometime in the future.
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GSOtoIND
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:41 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Indy wrote:
I lived near RDU for 14 months and now I am in OKC. I will still keep track of things here. Anything new going on? How is the FX construction progressing?


A few new routes were announced during the pandemic:
WN-STL
NK-FLL


I think there are 3 active FedEx projects right now
1. New sort building
-Essentially complete, inside is finished or close to done
2. Apron expansion
-Most of the dirt is cleared, and work is continuing on laying the pavement. Not going to be completed until at least next year
3. New flight ops center
-Foundation is laid down, but the building hasn't gone vertical yet


I have a friend whose firm is designing the 3rd parallel runway, so apparently that is still happening sometime in the future.

Where is that flight ops building going to be? If I remember correctly, the buildings on the west end of the ramp are going to be for off-duty pilot rest.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:51 pm

GSOtoIND wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Indy wrote:
I lived near RDU for 14 months and now I am in OKC. I will still keep track of things here. Anything new going on? How is the FX construction progressing?


A few new routes were announced during the pandemic:
WN-STL
NK-FLL


I think there are 3 active FedEx projects right now
1. New sort building
-Essentially complete, inside is finished or close to done
2. Apron expansion
-Most of the dirt is cleared, and work is continuing on laying the pavement. Not going to be completed until at least next year
3. New flight ops center
-Foundation is laid down, but the building hasn't gone vertical yet


I have a friend whose firm is designing the 3rd parallel runway, so apparently that is still happening sometime in the future.

Where is that flight ops building going to be? If I remember correctly, the buildings on the west end of the ramp are going to be for off-duty pilot rest.


It's actually not on the ramp, it's at the intersection of high school rd & cargo drive. In the space north of the Lilly/Lift Academy hangars, south of the Crowne Plaza hotel, and east of Signature flight support.

This is a picture for a month or so back.
Image
.
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:14 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Indy wrote:
I lived near RDU for 14 months and now I am in OKC. I will still keep track of things here. Anything new going on? How is the FX construction progressing?


A few new routes were announced during the pandemic:
WN-STL
NK-FLL


I think there are 3 active FedEx projects right now
1. New sort building
-Essentially complete, inside is finished or close to done
2. Apron expansion
-Most of the dirt is cleared, and work is continuing on laying the pavement. Not going to be completed until at least next year
3. New flight ops center
-Foundation is laid down, but the building hasn't gone vertical yet


I have a friend whose firm is designing the 3rd parallel runway, so apparently that is still happening sometime in the future.


Thanks for the udpate.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:28 pm

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/dhl-i ... s-facility

DHL Global Forwarding (OTCMKTS: DPSGY) has opened a 20,000-square-foot, temperature-controlled facility in Indianapolis that will cater to pharmaceutical and medical product shippers

The Indianapolis facility is one of eight “Certified Life Sciences Stations” that support DHL’s Thermonet service for temperature-controlled airfreight transport

The site is ideal because many large pharmaceutical companies are located in Indianapolis and it is next to the airport, David Goldberg, CEO of DHL Global Forwarding USA, told American Shipper.

DHL Global Forwarding is exploring the development of a dedicated life science freighter service linking Indianapolis with Europe, the Middle East and Africa, Goldberg said.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:14 pm

UA September schedule will be uploaded tonight, here is what it looks like for IND

Image
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airboss787
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:51 am

Midwestindy wrote:
UA September schedule will be uploaded tonight, here is what it looks like for IND

Image


Why does the United schedule have an E190 as the aircraft? Do they not have zero of these? Is that just placeholder or a code for something else?
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COSPN
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:07 pm

New UA route from IND to XXX will be announced tomorrow (not a hub or LAX)
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:20 pm

airboss787 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
UA September schedule will be uploaded tonight, here is what it looks like for IND

Image


Why does the United schedule have an E190 as the aircraft? Do they not have zero of these? Is that just placeholder or a code for something else?


It's just supposed to be for an E170

Literally have no idea why why they classify like that, same thing with the "Boeing E7" which is actually an E175

COSPN wrote:
New UA route from IND to XXX will be announced tomorrow (not a hub or LAX)


Sounds like it is additional service to an existing nonstop route, potentially IND-LGA given UA has slots to use. Could possibly be some seasonal Florida stuff, any hints?
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FlyingElvii
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:21 pm

COSPN wrote:
New UA route from IND to XXX will be announced tomorrow (not a hub or LAX)

LAX? Or Florida?
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:28 pm

Not LAX that is a UA hub
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:56 pm

With UA IND-RSW, IND now has p2p flights with all the US3 (DL-MCO/CUN/RSW, AA-BOS). Although it's unclear which may start/restart

A320 is a lot of aircraft for a p2p route.....
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airboss787
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:20 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
airboss787 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
UA September schedule will be uploaded tonight, here is what it looks like for IND

Image


Why does the United schedule have an E190 as the aircraft? Do they not have zero of these? Is that just placeholder or a code for something else?


It's just supposed to be for an E170

Literally have no idea why why they classify like that, same thing with the "Boeing E7" which is actually an E175


Weird. For a second I just assumed Boeing E7 is the 737-700. Never would have imagined it means an Embraer 175. Why call it a Boeing then?

Midwestindy wrote:
With UA IND-RSW, IND now has p2p flights with all the US3 (DL-MCO/CUN/RSW, AA-BOS). Although it's unclear which may start/restart

A320 is a lot of aircraft for a p2p route.....


Pleasantly surprised they suddenly started showing love to so many cities they never really have shown any, like IND. They probably have a boatload of narrowbody aircraft but not enough profitable routes from their hubs in the network. Good for IND and all the airports that got new service.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:32 pm

WN: Some how IND-MCI survived another schedule extension, the rest looks like they just copy & pasted 2020 with STL added. Ex: IND-MCO up to 8x, IND-TPA/RSW up to 6x, IND-FLL/PHX up to 4x

May LF came in much better than April:

May
AS IND-SEA-21.0%

G4 IND-PIE-77.0% (Daily)
G4 IND-SFB-69.0%
G4 IND-SRQ-64.1%
G4 IND-MYR-54.9%
G4 IND-LAS-53.9%
G4 IND-JAX-51.5%
G4 IND-FLL-50.2%
G4 IND-AUS-49.0%
G4 IND-VPS-43.0%
G4 IND-PGD-41.0% (Almost daily)
G4 IND-PBI-41.0%
G4 IND-SAV-35.0%

(LF cap 85%)
AA IND-DFW-48.0%
AA IND-CLT-47.9%
AA IND-PHL-27.9%
AA IND-PHX-20.5%

(LF cap 60%)
DL IND-MSP-36.3%
DL IND-ATL-34.3%
DL IND-DTW-28.3%

F9 IND-MCO-48.1%
F9 IND-DEN-45.7%

(LF cap 66%)
WN IND-TPA-41.9%
WN IND-ATL-36.8%
WN IND-PHX-35.9%
WN IND-DEN-35.4%
WN IND-MCO-32.6%
WN IND-CHS-32.2%
WN IND-LAS-19.8%
WN IND-BWI-19.1%

NK IND-MCO-67.5%

UA IND-IAD-29.4%
UA IND-EWR-22.2%

Combined: IND-ORD-39.4%

Midwestindy wrote:
The lowest loads you probably will ever see in your lifetime. I only bothered with outbound, but I assume inbound would be slightly higher

April Load Factors
AS IND-SEA-11.4%

G4 IND-PGD-22.1%
G4 IND-SRQ-18.4%
G4 IND-PIE-13.0%
G4 IND-FLL-10.7%
G4 IND-SFB-4.0%

AA IND-CLT-14.4%
AA IND-PHX-13.3%
AA IND-DFW-13.0%
AA IND-LAX-8.9%
AA IND-DCA-8.3%
AA IND-MIA-5.9%

DL IND-ATL-16.5%
DL IND-DTW-15.4%
DL IND-MSP-11.5%

F9 IND-DEN-18.2%
F9 IND-MCO-9.0%

NK IND-MCO-13.7%
NK IND-LAS-11.0%
NK IND-TPA-9.0%
NK IND-RSW-4.8%

WN IND-PHX-8.6%
WN IND-ATL-7.6%
WN IND-DAL-7.2%
WN IND-HOU-5.4%
WN IND-TPA-5.3%
WN IND-BWI-5.1%
WN IND-LAS-4.9%
WN IND-MCO-4.7%
WN IND-MCI-4.3%
WN IND-RSW-4.0%
WN IND-FLL-1.9%

UA IND-DEN-17.6%
UA IND-IAH-13.2%
UA IND-EWR-9.2%
UA IND-IAD-6.4%

Overall numbers:
IND-ORD-15.9%
IND-LGA-5.6%
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:28 pm

Is UA betting that a Covid-19 vaccine will be available by then and they will be able to corner the market on these routes this winter travel season? If a vaccine gets released in the 4th quarter, they will be in good shape with a lot of available capacity to book. But then again, if a vaccine isn't found, this could be a really expensive move for them.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air

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