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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:48 pm

Looks like IND is shaping up for its busiest weekend since the pandemic, flew through IND this week and the WN gate area was full which was great to see.

Image
Image
https://www.indianapolisairport.com/

Updated Nov Schedules (Nov 13):

AA 20 Flights
DL 19 Flights
WN 19 Flights
UA 13 Flights

Total November
NK 104 Flights (111% LY)
G4 86 Flights (64% LY)
F9 44 Flights (72% LY)
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:53 pm

Not been able to post new data like this in a while, but here is the awful Q2 demand data from IND. Notice how Florida dominates the top 5, NE travel was smashed

PDEW=Passengers daily each way
IND-Orlando=MCO-160.2 PDEW+ SFB (42.6 PDEW)=202.8 PDEW
IND-Tampa=PIE-63.7 PDEW+ TPA (110.5 PDEW)= 174.2 PDEW
IND-DEN-118.1 PDEW
IND-Fort Myers=RSW-63.4 PDEW+ PGD (46.5 PDEW)=109.9 PDEW
IND-South Florida=FLL-59.4 PDEW+ MIA (24.7 PDEW)+PBI (19.5 PDEW)=103.7 PDEW
IND-PHX-83.8 PDEW
IND-ATL-75.7 PDEW
IND-LAS-72.9 PDEW
IND-Dallas=DAL+DFW=62.8 PDEW
IND-LAX-50.1 PDEW
IND-SRQ-42.4 PDEW
IND-SEA-36.0 PDEW
IND-JAX-33.2 PDEW
IND-HOU+IAH-32.8 PDEW
IND-AUS-31.0 PDEW
IND-BWI-27.5 PDEW
IND-SAN-26.2 PDEW
IND-CLT-24.7 PDEW
IND-SLC-22.3 PDEW
IND-SAV-21.8 PDEW
IND-PHL-21.2 PDEW
IND-VPS-20.9 PDEW
IND-EWR-20.3 PDEW
IND-SMF-19.1 PDEW
IND-SFO-19.0 PDEW
IND-CHS-17.8 PDEW
IND-DCA-16.3 PDEW
IND-BOS-16.0 PDEW

IND-MYR-15.7 DPEW
IND-PDX-15.5 PDEW
IND-RDU-14.1 PDEW
IND-LGA-12.1 PDEW
IND-SNA-11.4 PDEW
IND-SJC-11.1 PDEW
IND-MSY-10.1 PDEW
IND-IAD-9.9 PDEW
IND-ORF-9.6 PDEW
IND-MSP-9.5 PDEW
IND-TUS-9.2 PDEW
IND-OAK-7.4 PDEW
IND-ORD-6.9 PDEW
IND-RNO-6.9 PDEW
IND-GEG-5.4 PDEW
IND-PNS-5.4 PDEW
IND-FAT-5.3 PDEW
IND-JFK-5.3 PDEW
IND-ANC-5.2 PDEW
IND-SJU-4.8 PDEW
IND-GSP-4.8 PDEW
IND-ABQ-4.2 PDEW
IND-ECP-3.5 PDEW
IND-BZN-3.4 PDEW
IND-DTW-2.7 PDEW
IND-MCI-2.5 PDEW
IND-MEM-2.5 PDEW



July Load factors
AS IND-STL-34.6% (Avg 62 pax/flight, not bad all things considered)
AS IND-SEA-72.2%

G4 IND-PGD-75.6%
G4 IND-LAS-71.3%
G4 IND-SRQ-68.5%
G4 IND-SFB-68.2%
G4 IND-PIE-65.4%
G4 IND-MYR-65.3%
G4 IND-JAX-61.0%
G4 IND-SAV-58.2%
G4 IND-FLL-55.2%
G4 IND-VPS-52.4%
G4 IND-CHS-43.8%
G4 IND-AUS-42.4%
G4 IND-PBI-30.6%

AA IND-CLT-77.3%

AA IND-PHX-65.7%
AA IND-DFW-64.8%
AA IND-MIA-50.8%
AA IND-DCA-47.6%
AA IND-PHL-42.0%

F9 IND-DEN-81.9%
F9 IND-LAS-71.3%
F9 IND-MCO-62.4%

WN IND-DEN-51.2%
WN IND-PHX-50.3%

WN IND-ATL-48.7%
WN IND-TPA-48.0%
WN IND-HOU-43.4%
WN IND-LAS-43.2%
WN IND-MCO-42.3%
WN IND-BWI-35.4%
WN IND-MDW-34.5%

NK IND-LAS-83.4%
NK IND-MCO-72.4%
NK IND-TPA-47.3%

UA IND-DEN-75.3%

UA IND-IAH-56.6%
UA IND-SFO-53.4%
UA IND-IAD-50.4%
UA IND-EWR-39.5%
 
kindeham
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:16 pm

I live in Amsterdam and over the course of the past 2 years it has been hard to find AMS-IND fares for sub $1000. Today I was looking at the coming months and presently round trip Amsterdam - Indianapolis is pricing at $388. This is insanely low for IND - and the lowest I have ever seen from anywhere in Europe to IND, ever. I didn't look further - but I am guessing London has even lower fares.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:23 pm

kindeham wrote:
I live in Amsterdam and over the course of the past 2 years it has been hard to find AMS-IND fares for sub $1000. Today I was looking at the coming months and presently round trip Amsterdam - Indianapolis is pricing at $388. This is insanely low for IND - and the lowest I have ever seen from anywhere in Europe to IND, ever. I didn't look further - but I am guessing London has even lower fares.


I think some of the legacies were/are running flash sales to Europe, hence the low fares. I'd imagine even at those fares there likely aren't many takers.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:40 pm

Remarkably "strong" numbers for IND in September, might be on target for 50% by YE.

Domestic September -60.5%
Total Pax September -61.4%
YTD -56.5%
Cargo September +38.8%
Cargo YTD +8.7%
Most notably: Total ops September -21.7% & Landed weight -9.9%

Sep 20 v Sep 19
G4 -14.1%
F9 -42.5%
NK -48.9%
AS -54.0%
WN -55.5%
AA -58.7%
UA -62.4%
DL -74.7%

YTD Market Share
WN--30.1%
AA--22.2%
DL--18.6%
UA--11.0%
G4--8.4%
NK--4.5%
F9--3.3%
AS--1.4%


https://d1j6zi7czwjuok.cloudfront.net/i ... 1026135600

Schedule updates:
UA up to 6x on IND-ORD for Thanksgiving
AS will start December offering IND-SEA 4x weekly before going back daily, similar to PIT & Columbus
WN added an extra IND-ATL flight in December, not expecting many additions for December now that they will be selling the full plane
DL will add a CR9 on IND-ATL (don't think I have seen that ever) for the holidays. No IND-MEM for December, plus they extended the SEA/MCO/BOS/LAX/RDU cuts into January. IND-MSP will be up to 5x daily
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:22 pm

"New 50,000 square foot Flight Operations Center will give pilots a place to plan flights, coordinate flight crews, and rest before flights."

https://twitter.com/CSOArchitects/statu ... 15/photo/2
Image
Image
 
gdavis003
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:42 pm

Anyone know what's up with this flight? Noticed this on FlightAware and was definitely interested. Seems to be running regularly. Did some searching and can't really find much on the specifics of this one. Scheduled charter operations it seems maybe?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VAL ... /CYYB/KIND

It's a Dash 8-100 that was previously operated by Jazz Air
 
indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:21 pm

gdavis003 wrote:
Anyone know what's up with this flight? Noticed this on FlightAware and was definitely interested. Seems to be running regularly. Did some searching and can't really find much on the specifics of this one. Scheduled charter operations it seems maybe?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VAL ... /CYYB/KIND

It's a Dash 8-100 that was previously operated by Jazz Air


I think it may be doing some holiday charter runs for FedEx.
 
GSOtoIND
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:07 am

indygs wrote:
gdavis003 wrote:
Anyone know what's up with this flight? Noticed this on FlightAware and was definitely interested. Seems to be running regularly. Did some searching and can't really find much on the specifics of this one. Scheduled charter operations it seems maybe?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VAL ... /CYYB/KIND

It's a Dash 8-100 that was previously operated by Jazz Air


I think it may be doing some holiday charter runs for FedEx.

It's been around since the late summer. I've been meaning to wander out to see what it looks like.
 
kindeham
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:54 pm

I'll be flying in from Amsterdam (Via Newark) a week from tomorrow. Will be the first time I've flown since October of last year - and the last time I was in Indy was September last year. I am very curious to see what the flight is like - especially the transatlantic section. I have already been the recepient of 2 schedule changes with cancelled flights. First was AMS-ORD cancelled (moved to EWR). Second a nice 2 hour connection from EWR-IND became a 5 hour connection after the afternoon flight was pulled.

As it stands my AMS-EWR flight has only 101 passengers booked on a 787-10. EWR-IND has 36 booked on a E170. On the return (December 30th) IND-EWR is booked full in coach with 9 open in first on the CRJ 550 in the special heavy first/econ plus configuration. I am booked in economy, but intentionally did not get an assigned seat hoping to get an upgrade since there are only 20 regular econ seats on that aircraft. EWR-AMS is a ghost town with only 84 booked.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:14 pm

WN updated their schedule, IND-SRQ is added & IND-AUS goes daily(6x weekly)
 
Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:28 pm

With the Covid vaccine coming out in the next week, do you think the summer schedules should start to ramp up more?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:19 pm

Indy wrote:
With the Covid vaccine coming out in the next week, do you think the summer schedules should start to ramp up more?


We'll see, G4, NK, & F9 yes. I think DL, AA, & UA will take some time, given lots of IND's frequencies from those airlines were on business heavy routes (BOS/NYC/DC/e.t.c). WN is still small in IND next summer, but odds are they'll add more flights in later.
 
kindeham
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:42 pm

Indy wrote:
With the Covid vaccine coming out in the next week, do you think the summer schedules should start to ramp up more?


My guess is not till we see how fast the vaccine distributed and when we start to see the effects of those vaccinations. I absolutely believe Europe will open doors to Americans with proof of vaccination (no that's not going to mean CDG is coming back anytime soon, just more travel in general).

Assuming no unknowns remain and we start to see rapid reduction in cases as the vaccine is given I think demand will be explosive - especially among those who have been vaccinated. The whole world has cabin fever, wouldn't a nice trip to a beach be good about now?

Also, I do think airlines have some plan for rapid ramp-up, I mean they already have the difficult part in place (aircraft and facitilies). I also think we will see a whole new world for routes/schedules. There has basically been a huge reset button pressed on the entire airline industry - kinda like a new game of Airline Empires starting, except aircraft and gates are already distributed based on the previous game.
 
Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:12 pm

kindeham wrote:
The whole world has cabin fever, wouldn't a nice trip to a beach be good about now?


I know I have it. I have a one week trip to PUJ booked in mid March. Flying OKC-ATL-PUJ-ATL-OKC. Assuming of course the pandemic doesn't mess that up. I have a house on the beach rented so I'm looking forward to that. But I'm not sure I will go if I haven't been vaccinated yet. I may have to rebook.
 
kindeham
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:39 pm

I am lucking out a bit. Today the Netherlands announced a hard lockdown for the next month. Virtually everything is closing except grocery stores, pharmacies, and similar essential stores. Most non-EU citizens are banned from entering, however those who can enter need a negative test taken within 72 hours before arriving. Thankfully those with a EU residence card are exempted...so I can finally travel.
 
Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:38 am

I wonder if DL's gutting of their focus cities is temporary or permanent? They are cutting IND-LAX/MCO/RDU. I guess RDU has been taking a lot of hits over time as well. And AUS is pretty much dead before it started. If this is going to become DL's long term strategy, what will it leave for IND? UA has never shown much interest in IND. Is AA going to fill the void? Service to hubs only on legacy carriers or a bunch of no frill LLCs doesn't make for very interesting or exciting travel.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:57 pm

Indy wrote:
I wonder if DL's gutting of their focus cities is temporary or permanent? They are cutting IND-LAX/MCO/RDU. I guess RDU has been taking a lot of hits over time as well. And AUS is pretty much dead before it started. If this is going to become DL's long term strategy, what will it leave for IND? UA has never shown much interest in IND. Is AA going to fill the void? Service to hubs only on legacy carriers or a bunch of no frill LLCs doesn't make for very interesting or exciting travel.


The cuts to IND-LAX/RDU are only for March as of now, IND-MCO is the one that appears to be permanent.

IND-MCO is understandable, that market is flooded with capacity, even on Tuesday's it has 7 daily flights this March & Saturdays have 11 flights. Surprised DL held on that long on this route.

IND-LAX will be back on either DL or AA, or both, it's a really large market from IND with over 500 PDEW in the summer months. Ideally, NK doesn't add IND-LAX, as that would not be good for yields.

DL in IND is likely going to be a distant 3rd, without MCO, CDG, RSW, CUN, & likely SEA/RDU, they won't be as strong in IND as AA.
 
jplatts
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:06 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
IND-LAX will be back on either DL or AA, or both, it's a really large market from IND with over 500 PDEW in the summer months. Ideally, NK doesn't add IND-LAX, as that would not be good for yields.


Here were the numbers for WN IND-LAX nonstop service in 2019: 75952 passengers, 82694 seats, 91.85% load factor

WN re-adding IND-LAX nonstop service might also be a possibility once demand is back to normal levels as WN had been able to fill IND-LAX nonstop flights prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.
 
COSPN
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:51 pm

UA 779 IND-RSW starts tomorrow first new destination of UA since SFO was started
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:43 pm

Looks like it's that time of year again, any new announcements will likely come in the first week of January

My 2020 predictions, obviously didn't account for the pandemic, but I wasn't too far off. Although the future of AA to JFK is unclear.

Either B6/SY enter the market
More ULCC flights, including G4 to Mexico
More frequencies and upguages from DL, and 1 new route from DL
New international flight, outside of the potential G4 adds
AA adds more mainline/upguages, CLT being the most likely
A220 shows up in IND
AA retains IND-JFK
WN drops a route (ATL, MCI, MDW, OAK, MSY, or AUS take your pick)
United adds more mainline
At least 1 new nonstop domestic destination

My 2021 Predictions:
B6/SY enter the market
New G4 destination
WN adds IND-BNA
NK adds IND-MSY
New destination from either AA or DL
Nonstop service is added/returned to SAN, SAT

Explanation:
-It's only a matter of time before either B6 or SY enters the market, B6 especially given the ties on IND-BOS, best bet would be late 2021 add for mid-2022 start
-G4 is getting squeezed by NK on IND-Florida, and G4 prefers as little competition as possible. They have started experimenting more from IND, with PBI & TUS, would not surprise me if they went into either SAT, SAN, LAX, ABQ, or ORF from IND
- WN adding IND-STL, meant the odds of IND-BNA just jumped, now that BNA is a much larger station and with new destinations (SAV/PBI/MIA/SRQ/e.t.c) there should be enough connecting traffic to warrant a late 2021 or 2022 start
- NK has been growing in IND, with the next logical step being MSY, where CLE, BNA, and CMH already have NK service to MSY
- AA appears very interested in p2p routes, not only have they not removed IND-BOS yet but they added IND-CUN, (along with virtually every other mid-sized city) they've also added new p2p routes from MCO, TPA, AUS, EYW, etc during the pandemic, and given their interest in Indy pre-covid it doesn't seem like much of a leap to assume more could come. DL did temporarily add IND-MEM, so they can't be ruled out either
- SAT along with Southern California are becoming a sizable VFR destinations from IND. Outside of Phoenix & Chicago, SAT was the largest outbound migration market. While SoCal was the largest inbound migration market behind Chicago to Indy. Pre-covid these markets were in the 100-200 PDEW range, after the 2020/early 2021 slump I'd expect traffic on these routes to rebound potentially clearing the way for a F9, G4, WN, e.t.c type add.


November YTD traffic sitting at -56.6%, cargo up 9.8% YTD
https://d1j6zi7czwjuok.cloudfront.net/i ... 1221163953

COSPN wrote:
UA 779 IND-RSW starts tomorrow first new destination of UA since SFO was started


Saw this tweet from UA supervisor that flights have been full.
https://twitter.com/BillyTiptonJr/statu ... 12806?s=20

Looks like its even upguaged to an A320 on the 26th
 
775899
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:27 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
-It's only a matter of time before either B6 or SY enters the market, B6 especially given the ties on IND-BOS, best bet would be late 2021 add for mid-2022 start
- WN adding IND-STL, meant the odds of IND-BNA just jumped, now that BNA is a much larger station and with new destinations (SAV/PBI/MIA/SRQ/e.t.c) there should be enough connecting traffic to warrant a late 2021 or 2022 start


These are two things I'm utterly shocked haven't happened yet.

B6 should be adding BOS/FLL and possibly RDU/AUS (since DL is weakening). Correct me if I'm wrong, but IND doesn't have a consistent daily flight to AUS correct? If that is so, that would be a good B6 add.

WN should definitely add IND-BNA with the new connections available, either add a new frequency or take one of the ATL frequencies and shift it to BNA. I'm shocked it hasn't happened already, especially with LF being delayed indefinitely.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:54 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
-It's only a matter of time before either B6 or SY enters the market, B6 especially given the ties on IND-BOS, best bet would be late 2021 add for mid-2022 start
- WN adding IND-STL, meant the odds of IND-BNA just jumped, now that BNA is a much larger station and with new destinations (SAV/PBI/MIA/SRQ/e.t.c) there should be enough connecting traffic to warrant a late 2021 or 2022 start


These are two things I'm utterly shocked haven't happened yet.

B6 should be adding BOS/FLL and possibly RDU/AUS (since DL is weakening). Correct me if I'm wrong, but IND doesn't have a consistent daily flight to AUS correct? If that is so, that would be a good B6 add.

WN should definitely add IND-BNA with the new connections available, either add a new frequency or take one of the ATL frequencies and shift it to BNA. I'm shocked it hasn't happened already, especially with LF being delayed indefinitely.


It's got daily service now that WN just upgraded IND-AUS to daily, plus the 2x weekly IND-AUS. We'll see how that works out, B6 IND-RDU would be more likely IMO pending the future of DL's IND-RDU.

I'm starting to doubt LF starting up any time in the immediate future, the short-haul business segment has been upended, and the two routes that made the most sense (BNA/STL) will likely now have 300 daily seats each way soon. Regardless, IND-BNA appears to be a lock at this point, 2x BNA & 2x ATL is my guess. Not only would BNA be good for N/S traffic, but it has a good amount of frequency to southern california.
 
tphuang
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:30 pm

I will say again that I think JetBlue will announce service to IND next year. Assuming the AA deal goes through and leisure travel mostly rebounds by end of 2021, I think the ground is ripe for JetBlue to start service to IND. I would imagine at bare minimum JFK/BOS/EWR to start off. If B6 does that, I think AA will not go ahead with BOS-IND or bring JFK-IND back. That would complement AA's service to LGA/DCA and other hubs pretty well imo.

I'd be curious to see where else JetBlue could try also. I think LAX is a distinct possibility if WN doesn't come back. LAX-IND had PDEW of over 500 in 2019 Q3 and slightly larger than LAX-RDU. JetBlue clearly doesn't mind 3-way markets of that size. I don't think AUS is possible. RDU is a possibility, but depends more on DL's choices.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:39 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
-It's only a matter of time before either B6 or SY enters the market, B6 especially given the ties on IND-BOS, best bet would be late 2021 add for mid-2022 start
- WN adding IND-STL, meant the odds of IND-BNA just jumped, now that BNA is a much larger station and with new destinations (SAV/PBI/MIA/SRQ/e.t.c) there should be enough connecting traffic to warrant a late 2021 or 2022 start


These are two things I'm utterly shocked haven't happened yet.

B6 should be adding BOS/FLL and possibly RDU/AUS (since DL is weakening). Correct me if I'm wrong, but IND doesn't have a consistent daily flight to AUS correct? If that is so, that would be a good B6 add.

WN should definitely add IND-BNA with the new connections available, either add a new frequency or take one of the ATL frequencies and shift it to BNA. I'm shocked it hasn't happened already, especially with LF being delayed indefinitely.


It's got daily service now that WN just upgraded IND-AUS to daily, plus the 2x weekly IND-AUS. We'll see how that works out, B6 IND-RDU would be more likely IMO pending the future of DL's IND-RDU.

I'm starting to doubt LF starting up any time in the immediate future, the short-haul business segment has been upended, and the two routes that made the most sense (BNA/STL) will likely now have 300 daily seats each way soon. Regardless, IND-BNA appears to be a lock at this point, 2x BNA & 2x ATL is my guess. Not only would BNA be good for N/S traffic, but it has a good amount of frequency to southern california.



I did not realize that IND-MDW isn't on WN anymore. Also, I guess MCI is gone as well?

But my other comment. What make IND-BNA a "lock"? Going west IND has a bunch of connection points with better southern cali connections already so even if they added BNA there would be no reason they need to line up the flights with those flights out of BNA. For southeast US cities I get it but how much more does BNA add over ATL/BWI/MCO in the southeast? Not saying it won't happen and it might even be likely but I would say why would it happen in 2021 instead of precovid (or further down the road)?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:21 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:

These are two things I'm utterly shocked haven't happened yet.

B6 should be adding BOS/FLL and possibly RDU/AUS (since DL is weakening). Correct me if I'm wrong, but IND doesn't have a consistent daily flight to AUS correct? If that is so, that would be a good B6 add.

WN should definitely add IND-BNA with the new connections available, either add a new frequency or take one of the ATL frequencies and shift it to BNA. I'm shocked it hasn't happened already, especially with LF being delayed indefinitely.


It's got daily service now that WN just upgraded IND-AUS to daily, plus the 2x weekly IND-AUS. We'll see how that works out, B6 IND-RDU would be more likely IMO pending the future of DL's IND-RDU.

I'm starting to doubt LF starting up any time in the immediate future, the short-haul business segment has been upended, and the two routes that made the most sense (BNA/STL) will likely now have 300 daily seats each way soon. Regardless, IND-BNA appears to be a lock at this point, 2x BNA & 2x ATL is my guess. Not only would BNA be good for N/S traffic, but it has a good amount of frequency to southern california.



I did not realize that IND-MDW isn't on WN anymore. Also, I guess MCI is gone as well?

But my other comment. What make IND-BNA a "lock"? Going west IND has a bunch of connection points with better southern cali connections already so even if they added BNA there would be no reason they need to line up the flights with those flights out of BNA. For southeast US cities I get it but how much more does BNA add over ATL/BWI/MCO in the southeast? Not saying it won't happen and it might even be likely but I would say why would it happen in 2021 instead of precovid (or further down the road)?


IND-MCI was the one that was run consistently, IND-MDW has been off and on since 2018, although I think they ran it for a month this summer. WN's IND ops are scheduled to be tiny next summer only 23 departures a day (half of AA's placeholder schedule) with 35 on Saturdays, so not surprising to not see IND-MCI.

Regarding BNA, they don't *need* other connection points, but it provides additional optionality for travelers. IND I believe is the last sizable market not served from BNA.

WN mentioned adding IND-BNA next, back in 2017 or 2018, so it's been in the cards for a while. With WN's tremendous growth at BNA the flight makes sense now more than ever, since the flight was initially proposed, BNA has gained close to 15 new destinations.

IND-BWI connects very few passengers to the Southeast/Florida since it is almost a backtrack from IND.

tphuang wrote:
I will say again that I think JetBlue will announce service to IND next year. Assuming the AA deal goes through and leisure travel mostly rebounds by end of 2021, I think the ground is ripe for JetBlue to start service to IND. I would imagine at bare minimum JFK/BOS/EWR to start off. If B6 does that, I think AA will not go ahead with BOS-IND or bring JFK-IND back. That would complement AA's service to LGA/DCA and other hubs pretty well imo.

I'd be curious to see where else JetBlue could try also. I think LAX is a distinct possibility if WN doesn't come back. LAX-IND had PDEW of over 500 in 2019 Q3 and slightly larger than LAX-RDU. JetBlue clearly doesn't mind 3-way markets of that size. I don't think AUS is possible. RDU is a possibility, but depends more on DL's choices.


If AA were to keep one, I think AA would drop IND-JFK before IND-BOS. I think they'd want to fly that on their own metal, given the corporate contracts on that route.

Either way I think IND-BOS/EWR/Florida would be best to start off. I think EWR would make sense over JFK, as most of the VFR & Business travel on IND-NYC (outside of Manhattan & Fairfield county) is to Essex or Middlesex counties in NJ. IND-EWR is one of the highest yielding routes out of EWR for UA, meaning demand on the route is very suppressed. With UA's lack of POS strength in IND, it'd likely be easier for B6 to enter EWR than the smaller IND-JFK market. That is, depending on how TATL connections factor in.....
 
NB1231
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:51 pm

Any idea what UA2563 is doing with a 772-200 landing in Indy? Is it because of the weather? Says it was ORD-IND.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:30 pm

NB1231 wrote:
Any idea what UA2563 is doing with a 772-200 landing in Indy? Is it because of the weather? Says it was ORD-IND.


I think it was a charter picking up IU football for their game
 
COSPN
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:01 am

777-300 IU to TPA Outback Bowl
 
kindeham
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:56 am

Yesterday I flew from Indianapolis to Amsterdam via Newark on United. I was wondering how it would work out because while I was in Indy the Netherlands added a new rule that required a negative corona test taken no more than 72 hours before arrival. Before I left to come to Indy the Dutch government said this requirement wouldn't come before at least mid Spring, otherwise I wouldn't have risked it.

The challenge is getting a test that the Dutch would accept and the results in time to have a printed (required) copy before I departed. I ended up using a company based out of Colorado who overnighted me a test that I then overnighted to a lab in Texas and got the results back 7 hours after they arrived at the lab. Only downfall was it cost me $300.

My biggest concern was not having confidence in airline personel applying the requirement properly, partly because the Dutch government's statement was scientifically inaccurate and would have made the test used by virtually everyone (rtPCR) invalid. I feared I would have 4 different times that I needed to prove that 1. I was actually permitted to travel to the EU (I hold a Dutch long term residence permit, but it's all in Dutch). 2. That the agents in Indy wouldn't let me board, 3. the agents in Newark wouldn't let me board, and 4. the Dutch immigration folks wouldn't accept my test.

To my surprise 1. Only the agent in Indy inquired about my ability to travel to the EU - I showed him my Dutch residency card, explained what it was and I was never asked about this again. 2. The agent in Indy asked if I had a negative PCR test, I showed him the paper and assured him I did, he didn't look at it and checked me in. 3. Newark was being very strict - there was a line of people who were rejected and waiting a supervisor, but I had no problems. 4. the Dutch immigration folks scanned my passport and didn't say a single word to me or check any of the required documents.

As for the actual flights - the flight to Newark was on the oddly configured CRJ-550, which is mostly First Class and Economy Plus - and has 3 huge bins for carry on bags where there would normally be seats between First Class and Economy Plus. I waited to check in and scored the first row of Economy Plus aisle seat because the dozen or so regular economy seats were already assigned. The flight left full.

For the flight from Newark to Amsterdam the flight was booked to 77 in the morning, but by boarding time it was down to 68 - on a 787-10. Service is scaled back quite a bit (they do one pass with food/drinks for dinner and similar for breakfast). I was able to go to the galley and get more drinks as I wished. I have to admit I rather like the social distancing transatlantic flights. 68 passengers on a 787-10 makes for a very comfortable flight!
 
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qf789
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:26 pm

Please continue discussion in Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1455955

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