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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:35 pm

stlgph wrote:
I'm still looking for the compelling argument as to what value Indianapolis would add to the JetBlue network. At a time when the airline needs to be doing whatever it can to maximize revenue potential, launching IND and getting into a peepeematch on low yield fare routes....makes absolute zero sense.


low yield? IND is one of DL's highest yielding routes from BOS, I've shown the data before.

B6 went head on against DL on BOS-ATL/MSP recently, going head to head with DL has been a major part of their route development strategy in BOS. The IND area also has sizable operations for Raytheon, Boston Scientific, Adidas/Reebok, Liberty Mutual, e.t.c and adding nonstop service on IND-BOS would allow B6 to better compete for the massive contracts of those companies.
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stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:21 pm

For one, Delta will undercut. They've done it before, they're not stupid, we've seen it. Outside of that, Main Cabin is high $200s/$300 range - with the operating costs of a Delta regional carrier.

For two, good for MSP and Atlanta, much better stronger business markets than IND is. Probably better for, as mentioned, maximizing potential revenue.

For three, JetBlue isn't the only player in Boston. Delta *IS* there. They are quite sizable. Other airlines are there. They are quite sizable. Just because there is business travel out of Boston doesn't mean it's going to automatically be on JetBlue.

And great that there are companies from Boston with operations in Indianapolis - if all these people were flying between the two on this principle alone then hell, JetBlue would have been flying to Indianapolis years ago.

Clearly there's something keeping them out - perhaps it's better to answer those questions than just sitting here posting about JetBlue coming to Indianapolis just because "you wanna."
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:42 pm

stlgph wrote:
I'm still looking for the compelling argument as to what value Indianapolis would add to the JetBlue network. At a time when the airline needs to be doing whatever it can to maximize revenue potential, launching IND and getting into a peepeematch on low yield fare routes....makes absolute zero sense.


Flying IND-BOS is the opposite of cheap fares (low yield), and I wish I could say otherwise....... It's 250-300 dollars cheaper for me to fly to LAS than it is to BOS, and LAS is on the other side of the country!
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:45 pm

stlgph wrote:
For one, Delta will undercut. They've done it before, they're not stupid, we've seen it. Outside of that, Main Cabin is high $200s/$300 range - with the operating costs of a Delta regional carrier.

For two, good for MSP and Atlanta, much better stronger business markets than IND is. Probably better for, as mentioned, maximizing potential revenue.

For three, JetBlue isn't the only player in Boston. Delta *IS* there. They are quite sizable. Other airlines are there. They are quite sizable. Just because there is business travel out of Boston doesn't mean it's going to automatically be on JetBlue.

And great that there are companies from Boston with operations in Indianapolis - if all these people were flying between the two on this principle alone then hell, JetBlue would have been flying to Indianapolis years ago.

Clearly there's something keeping them out - perhaps it's better to answer those questions than just sitting here posting about JetBlue coming to Indianapolis just because "you wanna."


A few things here:

1. The argument that "XYZ airline would be flying there already if there was a market for XYZ route" is one of the worst arguments that gets brought up on this site. We can go down a list of 100s of routes that airlines didn't run in the past and are now successful.

2. MSP & ATL while larger business markets, are also core hubs for Delta, the main competitor out of BOS for B6. Routes that should be much harder for B6 to compete with DL on compared to IND-BOS.

3. Never said that B6 would automatically get the business travel, I said, running a route like BOS-IND will allow B6 to better compete for some large corporate contracts in the BOS area.

4. High 200s/300s is very high for a short RJ route

5. I and others have brought up multiple times why B6 to IND would make sense. In addition, B6 is not a high growth airline, so it makes sense why they haven't added IND because they only have the aircraft to add a very limited number of new destinations a year (especially domestically). Furthermore, it would have been extremely unlikely for B6 to add IND-BOS before last year since WN was on the route in addition to DL.
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:43 am

That XYZ airline would be flying there already if there was a market for XYZ route argument is just simply weak and lazy.

I guess airports shouldn't negotiate since there's a reason why XYZ isn't here yet. #ThatsNotReality
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umichman
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:06 pm

zackary747 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
I'm still looking for the compelling argument as to what value Indianapolis would add to the JetBlue network. At a time when the airline needs to be doing whatever it can to maximize revenue potential, launching IND and getting into a peepeematch on low yield fare routes....makes absolute zero sense.


Flying IND-BOS is the opposite of cheap fares (low yield), and I wish I could say otherwise....... It's 250-300 dollars cheaper for me to fly to LAS than it is to BOS, and LAS is on the other side of the country!


DL 3-week advance roundtrip fares on IND-BOS are $209 roundtrip and 3-week advance one-way fares are $149. Yes, legacies still have different fares for roundtrip vs. one-way on routes where they have a monopoly. There's probably some room here for B6 to make some money, but these fares aren't as bad as CVG-BOS where DL also has a monopoly and 3-week advance one-way fares are $209. CMH-BOS, where DL has competition from WN, has $98 3-week advance one-way fares on Tue/Wed/Sat and $118 on Mon/Thu/Fri/Sun.
 
stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:31 pm

zackary747 wrote:
That XYZ airline would be flying there already if there was a market for XYZ route argument is just simply weak and lazy.

I guess airports shouldn't negotiate since there's a reason why XYZ isn't here yet. #ThatsNotReality



Airlines aren't a charity - they just don't just show up and fly routes because their planes are pretty and people posting on Airliners.Net want them at their airport.

Get real.
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:23 pm

stlgph wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
That XYZ airline would be flying there already if there was a market for XYZ route argument is just simply weak and lazy.

I guess airports shouldn't negotiate since there's a reason why XYZ isn't here yet. #ThatsNotReality



Airlines aren't a charity - they just don't just show up and fly routes because their planes are pretty and people posting on Airliners.Net want them at their airport.

Get real.


Where in my post does it say that airlines are a charity? Nowhere it says that, I am not stupid.

Get real....... Keep your narcissistic comments to yourself as well.

" they just don't just show up and fly routes because their planes are pretty and people posting on Airliners.Net want them at their airport."

Yeah, nothing in my or MidwestIndy's post says that either. MidwestIndy has posted data as well. Where is your data to support your argument? Get real.
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kindeham
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:31 pm

umichman wrote:
DL 3-week advance roundtrip fares on IND-BOS are $209 roundtrip and 3-week advance one-way fares are $149. Yes, legacies still have different fares for roundtrip vs. one-way on routes where they have a monopoly. There's probably some room here for B6 to make some money, but these fares aren't as bad as CVG-BOS where DL also has a monopoly and 3-week advance one-way fares are $209. CMH-BOS, where DL has competition from WN, has $98 3-week advance one-way fares on Tue/Wed/Sat and $118 on Mon/Thu/Fri/Sun.


What cherry picked super discounted advanced purchase fares you find on Expedia isn't the same as what the average one way/round trip fare on that route yeilds. Sure there are going to be some really decently priced IND-BOS round trip fares out there. Those are the *lowest* fares of the people on those aircraft. You are completely ignoring the rest of the plane that paid more. There are going to be some last minute people paying nearly $1000 without blinking an eye. In fact Monday returning Tuesday this coming week is $996 - and that is the very first date combination I checked.

To put in perspective of how rediculous it is to judge a route's potential for performance based on only cherry picked lowest possible fares - TAP Air Portugal is offering flights from Miami to Amsterdam (via lisbon) for $216 one way, including taxes! No, not all of their passengers are getting such insanely low prices and that's why you don't judge a routes performance based on the lowest possible super cheap discounted airfare which maybe even only 10 people on the entire plane got.
 
Bluegrass60
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:53 pm

kindeham wrote:
umichman wrote:
DL 3-week advance roundtrip fares on IND-BOS are $209 roundtrip and 3-week advance one-way fares are $149. Yes, legacies still have different fares for roundtrip vs. one-way on routes where they have a monopoly. There's probably some room here for B6 to make some money, but these fares aren't as bad as CVG-BOS where DL also has a monopoly and 3-week advance one-way fares are $209. CMH-BOS, where DL has competition from WN, has $98 3-week advance one-way fares on Tue/Wed/Sat and $118 on Mon/Thu/Fri/Sun.


What cherry picked super discounted advanced purchase fares you find on Expedia isn't the same as what the average one way/round trip fare on that route yeilds. Sure there are going to be some really decently priced IND-BOS round trip fares out there. Those are the *lowest* fares of the people on those aircraft. You are completely ignoring the rest of the plane that paid more. There are going to be some last minute people paying nearly $1000 without blinking an eye. In fact Monday returning Tuesday this coming week is $996 - and that is the very first date combination I checked.

To put in perspective of how rediculous it is to judge a route's potential for performance based on only cherry picked lowest possible fares - TAP Air Portugal is offering flights from Miami to Amsterdam (via lisbon) for $216 one way, including taxes! No, not all of their passengers are getting such insanely low prices and that's why you don't judge a routes performance based on the lowest possible super cheap discounted airfare which maybe even only 10 people on the entire plane got.


"...without blinking an eye (in re $1000 fare to BOS)....not sure who you work for but most F100 companies I have worked for....will "blink an eye" for those kind of fares...have I paid that kind of fare? Yes....but it is the exception vs the rule"
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:09 am

umichman wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
I'm still looking for the compelling argument as to what value Indianapolis would add to the JetBlue network. At a time when the airline needs to be doing whatever it can to maximize revenue potential, launching IND and getting into a peepeematch on low yield fare routes....makes absolute zero sense.


Flying IND-BOS is the opposite of cheap fares (low yield), and I wish I could say otherwise....... It's 250-300 dollars cheaper for me to fly to LAS than it is to BOS, and LAS is on the other side of the country!


DL 3-week advance roundtrip fares on IND-BOS are $209 roundtrip and 3-week advance one-way fares are $149. Yes, legacies still have different fares for roundtrip vs. one-way on routes where they have a monopoly. There's probably some room here for B6 to make some money, but these fares aren't as bad as CVG-BOS where DL also has a monopoly and 3-week advance one-way fares are $209. CMH-BOS, where DL has competition from WN, has $98 3-week advance one-way fares on Tue/Wed/Sat and $118 on Mon/Thu/Fri/Sun.


IND-BOS is very business heavy, meaning a higher % of tickets purchased within 2 weeks of departure. The Q3 2019 data came out last week, which is the first full quarter without WN 2x daily in the market, and if you compare DL's nonstop fare on BOS-CVG ($286) to BOS-IND ($274) the gap has dropped drastically.

BOS-IND highlighted in green significantly outperformed nearly every route between 250-1250 nm yield wise in Q3 2019, and even with WN in the market as I showed for Q2 in the 2019 thread, DL still commanded a very strong yield

Image

Bluegrass60 wrote:
kindeham wrote:
umichman wrote:
DL 3-week advance roundtrip fares on IND-BOS are $209 roundtrip and 3-week advance one-way fares are $149. Yes, legacies still have different fares for roundtrip vs. one-way on routes where they have a monopoly. There's probably some room here for B6 to make some money, but these fares aren't as bad as CVG-BOS where DL also has a monopoly and 3-week advance one-way fares are $209. CMH-BOS, where DL has competition from WN, has $98 3-week advance one-way fares on Tue/Wed/Sat and $118 on Mon/Thu/Fri/Sun.


What cherry picked super discounted advanced purchase fares you find on Expedia isn't the same as what the average one way/round trip fare on that route yeilds. Sure there are going to be some really decently priced IND-BOS round trip fares out there. Those are the *lowest* fares of the people on those aircraft. You are completely ignoring the rest of the plane that paid more. There are going to be some last minute people paying nearly $1000 without blinking an eye. In fact Monday returning Tuesday this coming week is $996 - and that is the very first date combination I checked.

To put in perspective of how rediculous it is to judge a route's potential for performance based on only cherry picked lowest possible fares - TAP Air Portugal is offering flights from Miami to Amsterdam (via lisbon) for $216 one way, including taxes! No, not all of their passengers are getting such insanely low prices and that's why you don't judge a routes performance based on the lowest possible super cheap discounted airfare which maybe even only 10 people on the entire plane got.


"...without blinking an eye (in re $1000 fare to BOS)....not sure who you work for but most F100 companies I have worked for....will "blink an eye" for those kind of fares...have I paid that kind of fare? Yes....but it is the exception vs the rule"


If you are traveling for business, the company will pay the fare, they don't have any other choice.
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kindeham
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:51 am

Bluegrass60 wrote:
"...without blinking an eye (in re $1000 fare to BOS)....not sure who you work for but most F100 companies I have worked for....will "blink an eye" for those kind of fares...have I paid that kind of fare? Yes....but it is the exception vs the rule"


Then why are they priced at nearly $1000? No airline or...any company from any industry is going to set a price that noboby is willing to pay.The answer is simply because there are people and businesses out there who are willing to pay that price. This is the same reason that ticket isn't going for $10,000. I imagine you may wonder if they can get $1000, why not $10,000? Because the number of people willing to buy a product decreases with every price increase. The airlines know exactly how to use this system to sell as many seats as possible all the while maximizing revenue.

Yes, you may occasionally sell a $200 ticket to someone who was willing to pay $1000, but that's figured into the models that dictate how many seats to sell at which price and when.
 
Bluegrass60
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:12 pm

kindeham wrote:
Bluegrass60 wrote:
"...without blinking an eye (in re $1000 fare to BOS)....not sure who you work for but most F100 companies I have worked for....will "blink an eye" for those kind of fares...have I paid that kind of fare? Yes....but it is the exception vs the rule"


Then why are they priced at nearly $1000? No airline or...any company from any industry is going to set a price that noboby is willing to pay.The answer is simply because there are people and businesses out there who are willing to pay that price. This is the same reason that ticket isn't going for $10,000. I imagine you may wonder if they can get $1000, why not $10,000? Because the number of people willing to buy a product decreases with every price increase. The airlines know exactly how to use this system to sell as many seats as possible all the while maximizing revenue.

Yes, you may occasionally sell a $200 ticket to someone who was willing to pay $1000, but that's figured into the models that dictate how many seats to sell at which price and when.


"Am certain your experience and intelligence exceeds my own.....if you are in a revenue generating capacity for your employer (aka sales) you can more readily justify a higher fare (as exception) otherwise you need to get approval from sometimes multiple levels of management to pay that type of fare (am talking IND-BOS for $1,000)...but alas....what do I know in the company of all of the experts on this board"
 
stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:28 pm

zackary747 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
That XYZ airline would be flying there already if there was a market for XYZ route argument is just simply weak and lazy.

I guess airports shouldn't negotiate since there's a reason why XYZ isn't here yet. #ThatsNotReality



Airlines aren't a charity - they just don't just show up and fly routes because their planes are pretty and people posting on Airliners.Net want them at their airport.

Get real.


Where in my post does it say that airlines are a charity? Nowhere it says that, I am not stupid.

Get real....... Keep your narcissistic comments to yourself as well.

" they just don't just show up and fly routes because their planes are pretty and people posting on Airliners.Net want them at their airport."

Yeah, nothing in my or MidwestIndy's post says that either. MidwestIndy has posted data as well. Where is your data to support your argument? Get real.


You dont have any business or economic acumen.

The truth remains the same ... your beloved MidwestIndy posts all these reasons (for years) about why IND-BOS is a slam dunk for JetBlue.

Yet. They still aren't here. But you know, other markets aren't a problem - if they can fly to Atlanta and Minneapolis from BOS ....then my gosh!

Yet. How dare I choose to say that the reason they aren't here is quite obvious: no value, not an income maximizing opportunity, not wanting to bother with a peepeematch of low yields on Florida markets you fanboys say they should just show up and start flying.


So, since you aren't stupid -- as you say - how about YOU tell us exactly why JetBlue isn't in Indianapolis.

This should be good.
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COSPN
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:44 pm

Rumor has it WN will build their own terminal at the old airport site. The new blue line bus will be re routed to stop by the new terminal on the way to the Main airport. Southwest will move lots of the MDW ops to IND.

Big news for IND this will open up 4 or 5 gates when Southwest moves out..
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:48 pm

stlgph wrote:
MidwestIndy posts all these reasons (for years) about why IND-BOS is a slam dunk for JetBlue.


Please, I beg of you, read what I say before you respond.

I have never said B6 to IND is a slam dunk for B6, you asked why B6 would enter IND, saying it "makes absolute zero sense," and I gave reasons why it would.
You said IND-BOS was low yield, I gave data points to show that it wasn't, even with WN in the market.

I searched through my posts and I have never said IND was a "slamdunk for B6" or at least intentionally implied that.

COSPN wrote:
Rumor has it WN will build their own terminal at the old airport site. The new blue line bus will be re routed to stop by the new terminal on the way to the Main airport. Southwest will move lots of the MDW ops to IND.

Big news for IND this will open up 4 or 5 gates when Southwest moves out..


:duck:
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:10 pm

stlgph wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
stlgph wrote:


Airlines aren't a charity - they just don't just show up and fly routes because their planes are pretty and people posting on Airliners.Net want them at their airport.

Get real.


Where in my post does it say that airlines are a charity? Nowhere it says that, I am not stupid.

Get real....... Keep your narcissistic comments to yourself as well.

" they just don't just show up and fly routes because their planes are pretty and people posting on Airliners.Net want them at their airport."

Yeah, nothing in my or MidwestIndy's post says that either. MidwestIndy has posted data as well. Where is your data to support your argument? Get real.


You dont have any business or economic acumen.

The truth remains the same ... your beloved MidwestIndy posts all these reasons (for years) about why IND-BOS is a slam dunk for JetBlue.

Yet. They still aren't here. But you know, other markets aren't a problem - if they can fly to Atlanta and Minneapolis from BOS ....then my gosh!

Yet. How dare I choose to say that the reason they aren't here is quite obvious: no value, not an income maximizing opportunity, not wanting to bother with a peepeematch of low yields on Florida markets you fanboys say they should just show up and start flying.


So, since you aren't stupid -- as you say - how about YOU tell us exactly why JetBlue isn't in Indianapolis.

This should be good.


"You dont have any business or economic acumen."

Wrong. Funny how you're able to make that judgment from someone you don't even know on a forum.

"So, since you aren't stupid -- as you say - how about YOU tell us exactly why JetBlue isn't in Indianapolis."

The post I made has nothing to do with JetBlue specifically. Florida wasn't mentioned either.
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:52 pm

COSPN wrote:
Rumor has it WN will build their own terminal at the old airport site. The new blue line bus will be re routed to stop by the new terminal on the way to the Main airport. Southwest will move lots of the MDW ops to IND.

Big news for IND this will open up 4 or 5 gates when Southwest moves out..


Inside the new Southwest terminal ticketing area.... (lol)...

https://loveincorporated.blob.core.wind ... 0world.jpg
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
BNAMealer
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:19 pm

stlgph wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
stlgph wrote:


Airlines aren't a charity - they just don't just show up and fly routes because their planes are pretty and people posting on Airliners.Net want them at their airport.

Get real.


Where in my post does it say that airlines are a charity? Nowhere it says that, I am not stupid.

Get real....... Keep your narcissistic comments to yourself as well.

" they just don't just show up and fly routes because their planes are pretty and people posting on Airliners.Net want them at their airport."

Yeah, nothing in my or MidwestIndy's post says that either. MidwestIndy has posted data as well. Where is your data to support your argument? Get real.


You dont have any business or economic acumen.

The truth remains the same ... your beloved MidwestIndy posts all these reasons (for years) about why IND-BOS is a slam dunk for JetBlue.

Yet. They still aren't here. But you know, other markets aren't a problem - if they can fly to Atlanta and Minneapolis from BOS ....then my gosh!

Yet. How dare I choose to say that the reason they aren't here is quite obvious: no value, not an income maximizing opportunity, not wanting to bother with a peepeematch of low yields on Florida markets you fanboys say they should just show up and start flying.


So, since you aren't stupid -- as you say - how about YOU tell us exactly why JetBlue isn't in Indianapolis.

This should be good.


Funny how I was called out by a certain user on the STL thread for supposedly trolling the STL thread, but this user feels insistent on coming to this thread and actually trolling the IND fans.

Leave them alone.
 
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:24 pm

Indy wrote:
COSPN wrote:
Rumor has it WN will build their own terminal at the old airport site. The new blue line bus will be re routed to stop by the new terminal on the way to the Main airport. Southwest will move lots of the MDW ops to IND.

Big news for IND this will open up 4 or 5 gates when Southwest moves out..


Inside the new Southwest terminal ticketing area.... (lol)...

https://loveincorporated.blob.core.wind ... 0world.jpg


So world class :lol:
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Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:03 pm

COSPN wrote:
Rumor has it WN will build their own terminal at the old airport site. The new blue line bus will be re routed to stop by the new terminal on the way to the Main airport. Southwest will move lots of the MDW ops to IND.

Big news for IND this will open up 4 or 5 gates when Southwest moves out..


Now I’ve heard a lot of crazy rumors. But this one might take the cake. On multiple levels.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:22 am

Jshank83 wrote:
COSPN wrote:
Rumor has it WN will build their own terminal at the old airport site. The new blue line bus will be re routed to stop by the new terminal on the way to the Main airport. Southwest will move lots of the MDW ops to IND.

Big news for IND this will open up 4 or 5 gates when Southwest moves out..


Now I’ve heard a lot of crazy rumors. But this one might take the cake. On multiple levels.


Tried to imagine a scenario where that would make sense for any of the parties involved and I couldn't.

The blue line is getting routed through that area because of the Infosys campus, I believe
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Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:39 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
COSPN wrote:
Rumor has it WN will build their own terminal at the old airport site. The new blue line bus will be re routed to stop by the new terminal on the way to the Main airport. Southwest will move lots of the MDW ops to IND.

Big news for IND this will open up 4 or 5 gates when Southwest moves out..


Now I’ve heard a lot of crazy rumors. But this one might take the cake. On multiple levels.


Tried to imagine a scenario where that would make sense for any of the parties involved and I couldn't.

The blue line is getting routed through that area because of the Infosys campus, I believe


The first part about them building a new terminal when they have been cutting destinations and flights seems far fetched on its own.

Then saying moving “lots” of MDWs ops to IND on top of that....
 
COSPN
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:17 am

Let’s wait and see what happens
 
stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:40 am

zackary747 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
zackary747 wrote:

Where in my post does it say that airlines are a charity? Nowhere it says that, I am not stupid.

Get real....... Keep your narcissistic comments to yourself as well.

" they just don't just show up and fly routes because their planes are pretty and people posting on Airliners.Net want them at their airport."

Yeah, nothing in my or MidwestIndy's post says that either. MidwestIndy has posted data as well. Where is your data to support your argument? Get real.


You dont have any business or economic acumen.

The truth remains the same ... your beloved MidwestIndy posts all these reasons (for years) about why IND-BOS is a slam dunk for JetBlue.

Yet. They still aren't here. But you know, other markets aren't a problem - if they can fly to Atlanta and Minneapolis from BOS ....then my gosh!

Yet. How dare I choose to say that the reason they aren't here is quite obvious: no value, not an income maximizing opportunity, not wanting to bother with a peepeematch of low yields on Florida markets you fanboys say they should just show up and start flying.


So, since you aren't stupid -- as you say - how about YOU tell us exactly why JetBlue isn't in Indianapolis.

This should be good.


"You dont have any business or economic acumen."

Wrong. Funny how you're able to make that judgment from someone you don't even know on a forum.

"So, since you aren't stupid -- as you say - how about YOU tell us exactly why JetBlue isn't in Indianapolis."

The post I made has nothing to do with JetBlue specifically. Florida wasn't mentioned either.




So, you can't tell us anything. At all.

Color me shocked.

But by all means, continue to bash me for actually having things to say that make sense. Carry on.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:04 pm

COSPN wrote:
Let’s wait and see what happens


What would be the reasoning for that on WN's end?
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:25 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
COSPN wrote:
Let’s wait and see what happens


What would be the reasoning for that on WN's end?


I thought he was just being funny and sort of making fun of A.net rumors. I didn't believe for a minute that it would be true/credible. Nothing against COSPN obviously.
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ibthebigd
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:39 am

I am kind of surprised IND didn't get any new routes with Allegiant big announcement. I thought for sure ORF would be added.

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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:26 pm

I am surprised IND is getting BOS service on AA. It was just announced on Twitter.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:41 pm

Indy wrote:
I am surprised IND is getting BOS service on AA. It was just announced on Twitter.


Was thinking about sharing the data, but didn't think it would happen.....

AA picked up a massive amount of IND-BOS traffic once WN dropped the route, close to around 50 PDEW, so there is definitely a market for AA to add this.

"We want to be the airline of choice to customers in the heartland, and these new flights fit that plan perfectly,” said Vasu Raja, American’s senior vice president of network strategy. “With a convenient schedule, we look forward to welcoming our Indianapolis customers to Boston when the new service launches in May.”

I expect DL to respond forcefully to this....AA will have an amazing East Coast network from IND.

ibthebigd wrote:
I am kind of surprised IND didn't get any new routes with Allegiant big announcement. I thought for sure ORF would be added.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


IND got TUS & PBI recently, I think ORF will happen within the next 2 years, although IND isn't usually strong to beach markets outside of Florida.
Last edited by Midwestindy on Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:43 pm

Starting to feel like the old US Air days.

Now, if they'd only add Pittsburgh...
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:54 pm

stlgph wrote:
Starting to feel like the old US Air days.

Now, if they'd only add Pittsburgh...


The old US Air days were nuts. They had hubs everywhere. I think at one point they had nearly 150 flights a day out of IND. Imagine that much traffic through the old D concourse.
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indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:45 pm

Interesting move on AA's part--they become the only airline serving BOS, NYC and DCA non-stop out of Indy. I think that'll bode well for them with business travelers, though I'd like to hope they'll have better schedules than WN did when they ran twice daily.
 
GSOtoIND
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:47 pm

That's a bold move by AA. We're back to having one carrier that serves all three of BOS, LGA, and DCA. I have to think JetBlue is the loser here. I can't see them adding IND with 6 flights a day now to BOS they'd be competing with.
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ATAIndy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:57 pm

Indy wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Starting to feel like the old US Air days.

Now, if they'd only add Pittsburgh...


The old US Air days were nuts. They had hubs everywhere. I think at one point they had nearly 150 flights a day out of IND. Imagine that much traffic through the old D concourse.


Peak was around 100 daily flights, a near 50/50 split between mainline and regional. Mainline destinations were: BWI, CLT, CLE, CMH, EVV, MCI, LAS, LAX, SDF, MKW, EWR, LGA, MCO, PHL, PHX, PIT, SFO, TPA, and DCA
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:04 pm

ATAIndy wrote:
Peak was around 100 daily flights, a near 50/50 split between mainline and regional. Mainline destinations were: BWI, CLT, CLE, CMH, EVV, MCI, LAS, LAX, SDF, MKW, EWR, LGA, MCO, PHL, PHX, PIT, SFO, TPA, and DCA


I am fairly certain the number was 147. I looked up an article ages ago about the US hub at Indy.
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:24 pm

Indy wrote:
I am surprised IND is getting BOS service on AA. It was just announced on Twitter.


Did not see AA doing this but I am very happy. Competition is more than needed on that route.

I would like to see NK or G4 look at doing a 2x weekly seasonal on that route in the future.

I don't see B6 coming in after this. AA out of all airlines are starting to take their pie.

@MidwestIndy. When does AA publish their schedule. I am not seeing it on their site.
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jplatts
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:03 pm

zackary747 wrote:
I would like to see NK or G4 look at doing a 2x weekly seasonal on that route in the future.


I agree that NK adding seasonal nonstop service to BOS out of IND is a possibility with NK already having seasonal nonstop service to BOS from ORD, CLE, and DTW in the Midwest.
 
kavok
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:22 pm

indygs wrote:
Interesting move on AA's part--they become the only airline serving BOS, NYC and DCA non-stop out of Indy. I think that'll bode well for them with business travelers, though I'd like to hope they'll have better schedules than WN did when they ran twice daily.


It will be interesting if and how DL responds. I can very easily see DL up-gauging their BOS flights to mainline. Less likely would be DL using one of their scarce DCA slots on IND, but they may have to if they want to remain #1 in the Indy market.
 
jplatts
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:23 pm

kavok wrote:
It will be interesting if and how DL responds. I can very easily see DL up-gauging their BOS flights to mainline. Less likely would be DL using one of their scarce DCA slots on IND, but they may have to if they want to remain #1 in the Indy market.


DL does serve LEX, MSN, and OMA nonstop from DCA using slots that can only be used on the DCA-LEX, DCA-MSN, and DCA-OMA nonstop routes.

DCA-CVG and DCA-RDU are the only other DL nonstop routes out of DCA that aren't to DL hubs, but CVG and RDU are both focus cities for DL.

DL adding IND-DCA nonstop service is unlikely to occur with (a) DL already having reduced frequencies on other nonstop routes out of DCA in order to add DCA-BOS nonstop service, (b) DL operating DCA-LEX/MSN/OMA nonstop service using slots that can only be used on specific routes, and (c) DL's other nonstop routes out of DCA being to DL hubs or focus cities.

DL FF's in the IND market with SkyMiles Medallion status who will avoid on AA, UA, or WN whenever possible are also likely willing to connect to DCA through DTW on DL instead of taking the AA IND-DCA, UA IND-IAD, or WN IND-BWI nonstop flights.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:01 pm

zackary747 wrote:

@MidwestIndy. When does AA publish their schedule. I am not seeing it on their site.


Sunday early in the morning, usually 2:30am-3:30am

Midwestindy wrote:
The IND area also has sizable operations for Raytheon, Boston Scientific, Adidas/Reebok, Liberty Mutual, e.t.c and adding nonstop service on IND-BOS would allow B6 to better compete for the massive contracts of those companies.


Looks like AA made a play for this, “Boston is an important market, and we are happy to provide new and increased service to places that matter the most to our customers,” said Vasu Raja, senior vice president of network strategy at American, in a statement.

While IND isn't the largest BOS market that AA didn't serve, the corporate ties are certainly there, especially factoring the Life Science sector which RDU is also known for.

kavok wrote:
indygs wrote:
Interesting move on AA's part--they become the only airline serving BOS, NYC and DCA non-stop out of Indy. I think that'll bode well for them with business travelers, though I'd like to hope they'll have better schedules than WN did when they ran twice daily.


It will be interesting if and how DL responds. I can very easily see DL up-gauging their BOS flights to mainline. Less likely would be DL using one of their scarce DCA slots on IND, but they may have to if they want to remain #1 in the Indy market.


“We want to be the airline of choice to customers in the heartland, and these new flights fit that plan perfectly,” said Vasu Raja, American’s senior vice president of network strategy.

Delta has also said they want to be the airline of choice in IND, so this should at the least fuel some more attention in the IND market.
https://www.insideindianabusiness.com/s ... ice-begins

I think any response from DL will be increasing frequencies/product on competing routes: IND-BOS, IND-LGA, or IND-LAX.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:39 pm

Q3 PDEW numbers
Markets of interest
LAX-518 PDEW
BOS-367 PDEW, down from 421 PDEW last Q3
SAN-194 PDEW, even with a sizable increase in fares
AUS-156 PDEW, 21% growth on higher yoy fares
RDU-125 PDEW, 13% growth on higher yoy fares
PDX-113 PDEW, 3% growth on avg fares $36 dollars higher is impressive, DL was largest carrier on this route averaging 32% Market share and $324 in average fares.
SAT-90 PDEW, 18% growth on higher yoy fares
MSY-81 PDEW, less service from WN & G4 dropped PDEW here from 85 PDEW in 2018
SMF-64 PDEW
BDL-52 PDEW
ORF-49 PDEW
MEM-28 PDEW

Top 10 Increases in PDEW--# of PDEW--% change in PDEW
Orlando, FL--80--18.16%
Los Angeles, CA (Metropolitan Area)--52--11.17%
San Diego, CA--28--16.87%
Austin, TX--27.5--21.48%
Denver, CO--26--5.16%
Miami, FL (Metropolitan Area) --19.5--6.58%
Detroit, MI--18.5--29.60%
Washington, DC (Metropolitan Area)--15--2.69%
Sarasota/Bradenton, FL--15--51.72%
Raleigh/Durham, NC--14.5--13.12%

Top 10 Decreases in PDEW--(# of PDEW)--(% change in PDEW)
San Francisco, CA (Metropolitan Area)--(-87)--(-21.56%)
New York City, NY (Metropolitan Area)--(-84.5)--(-11.64%)
Boston, MA (Metropolitan Area)--(-54)--(-12.84%)
Atlanta, GA (Metropolitan Area)--(-18.5)--(-4.86%)
Houston, TX--(-14)--(-6.36%)
Philadelphia, PA--(-13.5)--(-7.50%)
Chicago, IL--(-12.5)--(-8.42%)
Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN--(-6)--(-2.78%)
Fort Myers, FL --(-4)--(-2.71%)
New Orleans, LA--(-4)--(-4.71%)

Top 10 Increases in Fares
Tucson, AZ--$52.99
New York City, NY (Metropolitan Area)--$51.18
Philadelphia, PA--$50.49
Boston, MA (Metropolitan Area)--$49.73
San Francisco, CA (Metropolitan Area)--$41.79
Portland, OR--$36.20
Dallas/Fort Worth, TX--$30.48
Salt Lake City, UT--$29.87
Chicago, IL--$29.80
Hartford, CT--$29.69

Top 10 Decreases in Fares
Detroit, MI--(-$32.68)
Memphis, TN--(-$17.65)
Sarasota/Bradenton, FL--(-$12.07)
Orlando, FL--(-$11.97)
Jacksonville, FL--(-$9.07)
Charleston, SC--(-$7.55)
Sanford, FL--(-$5.98)
Los Angeles, CA (Metropolitan Area)--(-$5.07)
New Orleans, LA--(-$2.61)
Denver, CO--(-$2.14)
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ATAIndy
Posts: 647
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:32 am

Indy wrote:
ATAIndy wrote:
Peak was around 100 daily flights, a near 50/50 split between mainline and regional. Mainline destinations were: BWI, CLT, CLE, CMH, EVV, MCI, LAS, LAX, SDF, MKW, EWR, LGA, MCO, PHL, PHX, PIT, SFO, TPA, and DCA


I am fairly certain the number was 147. I looked up an article ages ago about the US hub at Indy.


My source is the physical timetable effective June 1990, which to my knowledge is the peak season of the peak year of the hub. Please let me know when you find your source.
Boiler up!
 
Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:53 am

ATAIndy wrote:
Indy wrote:
ATAIndy wrote:
Peak was around 100 daily flights, a near 50/50 split between mainline and regional. Mainline destinations were: BWI, CLT, CLE, CMH, EVV, MCI, LAS, LAX, SDF, MKW, EWR, LGA, MCO, PHL, PHX, PIT, SFO, TPA, and DCA


I am fairly certain the number was 147. I looked up an article ages ago about the US hub at Indy.


My source is the physical timetable effective June 1990, which to my knowledge is the peak season of the peak year of the hub. Please let me know when you find your source.


Mine was an old Indianapolis Star article that I had looked up at the Indianapolis Library many years ago. I do not remember which year the article was from.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
BNAMealer
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:12 am

Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:

@MidwestIndy. When does AA publish their schedule. I am not seeing it on their site.


Sunday early in the morning, usually 2:30am-3:30am

Midwestindy wrote:
The IND area also has sizable operations for Raytheon, Boston Scientific, Adidas/Reebok, Liberty Mutual, e.t.c and adding nonstop service on IND-BOS would allow B6 to better compete for the massive contracts of those companies.


Looks like AA made a play for this, “Boston is an important market, and we are happy to provide new and increased service to places that matter the most to our customers,” said Vasu Raja, senior vice president of network strategy at American, in a statement.

While IND isn't the largest BOS market that AA didn't serve, the corporate ties are certainly there, especially factoring the Life Science sector which RDU is also known for.

kavok wrote:
indygs wrote:
Interesting move on AA's part--they become the only airline serving BOS, NYC and DCA non-stop out of Indy. I think that'll bode well for them with business travelers, though I'd like to hope they'll have better schedules than WN did when they ran twice daily.


It will be interesting if and how DL responds. I can very easily see DL up-gauging their BOS flights to mainline. Less likely would be DL using one of their scarce DCA slots on IND, but they may have to if they want to remain #1 in the Indy market.


“We want to be the airline of choice to customers in the heartland, and these new flights fit that plan perfectly,” said Vasu Raja, American’s senior vice president of network strategy.

Delta has also said they want to be the airline of choice in IND, so this should at the least fuel some more attention in the IND market.
https://www.insideindianabusiness.com/s ... ice-begins

I think any response from DL will be increasing frequencies/product on competing routes: IND-BOS, IND-LGA, or IND-LAX.


Just curious, how big is the AA market/FF base in IND? With certain adds and perhaps the addition of an Admirals Club, could they challenge DL for the lead?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:51 am

BNAMealer wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:

@MidwestIndy. When does AA publish their schedule. I am not seeing it on their site.


Sunday early in the morning, usually 2:30am-3:30am

Midwestindy wrote:
The IND area also has sizable operations for Raytheon, Boston Scientific, Adidas/Reebok, Liberty Mutual, e.t.c and adding nonstop service on IND-BOS would allow B6 to better compete for the massive contracts of those companies.


Looks like AA made a play for this, “Boston is an important market, and we are happy to provide new and increased service to places that matter the most to our customers,” said Vasu Raja, senior vice president of network strategy at American, in a statement.

While IND isn't the largest BOS market that AA didn't serve, the corporate ties are certainly there, especially factoring the Life Science sector which RDU is also known for.

kavok wrote:

It will be interesting if and how DL responds. I can very easily see DL up-gauging their BOS flights to mainline. Less likely would be DL using one of their scarce DCA slots on IND, but they may have to if they want to remain #1 in the Indy market.


“We want to be the airline of choice to customers in the heartland, and these new flights fit that plan perfectly,” said Vasu Raja, American’s senior vice president of network strategy.

Delta has also said they want to be the airline of choice in IND, so this should at the least fuel some more attention in the IND market.
https://www.insideindianabusiness.com/s ... ice-begins

I think any response from DL will be increasing frequencies/product on competing routes: IND-BOS, IND-LGA, or IND-LAX.


Just curious, how big is the AA market/FF base in IND? With certain adds and perhaps the addition of an Admirals Club, could they challenge DL for the lead?


AA was #2 in IND for a while, up until 2017/2018, and since then they have let DL come in and suck up some of their share. YTD they are at 21.5% share, to DL's 25.5%....

AA has had a strong FF base in the past, because of the old USair hub, but I'm not sure how much of the market they lost with the NWA focus city.

I don't think AA needs to do much to challenge AA for the lead between them and DL:
- AA serves most of the largest business markets from IND: LAX, NYC, DC, BOS, PHX, ORD, MIA, PHL, e.t.c
- If BA ever starts IND-LHR that would put AA/Oneworld over the edge
- AA should be getting close to 50 departures, DL is sitting at 40-42, although DL is more mainline
- The advantages DL has are service to leisure markets, stronger BOS/NYC, & TATL service
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:56 am

Midwestindy wrote:
- The advantages DL has are service to leisure markets, stronger BOS/NYC, & TATL service


Let's not forget the Sky Club.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:05 pm

Indy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
- The advantages DL has are service to leisure markets, stronger BOS/NYC, & TATL service


Let's not forget the Sky Club.


Very true, although I will say (IMO) that for domestic flights, clubs don't matter as much unless you have a layover.

Definitely a decisive advantage for DL though in the product/club experience.
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kindeham
Posts: 123
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:09 pm

COSPN wrote:
Rumor has it WN will build their own terminal at the old airport site. The new blue line bus will be re routed to stop by the new terminal on the way to the Main airport. Southwest will move lots of the MDW ops to IND.

Big news for IND this will open up 4 or 5 gates when Southwest moves out..


Boy is Infosys going to be pissed.
 
Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:11 pm

kindeham wrote:
COSPN wrote:
Rumor has it WN will build their own terminal at the old airport site. The new blue line bus will be re routed to stop by the new terminal on the way to the Main airport. Southwest will move lots of the MDW ops to IND.

Big news for IND this will open up 4 or 5 gates when Southwest moves out..


Boy is Infosys going to be pissed.


LOL tell me about it. I mean no longer having to reimburse workers for their airport to work location transportation costs is going to be a bummer. Not to mention all that access to low fares around the country. That isn't going to go over well with them at all :D
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air

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