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FlyingElvii
Posts: 995
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 7:16 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
The problem with shutting down Burke now is you'd probably have to come up with $20 million to buy out the 3 or 4 hangers and operators.
It's too bad they couldn't find more uses for the facility. Maybe if they closed the shorter parallel, they could put something on that narrow strip of land that would free up. How about Million dollar homes with a hanger attached like that airport in Florida where Travolta kept his 707? : )

The developers want the property for ten million dollar waterfront condos.
In 20 years, people will ask “Why did we ever do that ?”, just like everywhere else.

In the post-Covid world, you are going to see an explosion in GA flying. Losing Burke now will hurt the entire region a few years down the line.
Remember, the Cleveland Economy, just like many other places in America, is in decline because manufacturing was politically outforced. We should all now realize just how expensive and costly those cheap $12 toasters have really been to us.
 
MohawkWeekend
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:06 pm

Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 11:00 pm

I'd like to see GA come back but until there is a major technology breakthrough to reduce costs I don't see it. I downloaded the paragraph below for what I consider to be the entry level business aircraft a Beech Bonanza. Couple that with insurance costs going through the roof and a less than stellar safety record compared to aircaft flown by professional pilots. Anything with a turbine is probably twice this.
"Based on 450 annual owner-operated hours and $4.25-per-gallon fuel cost, the BEECHCRAFT Bonanza G36 has total variable costs of $85,837.50, total fixed costs of $68,590.00, and an annual budget of $154,427.50.
PRICE: $575,000.00
SPEED: 169 KTS / 194 MPH
RANGE: 108 NM / 124 SM
Ownership and Operating Costs | BEECHCRAFT Bonanza G36www.aircraftcostcalculator.com
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    masseybrown
    Posts: 5558
    Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

    Sat May 09, 2020 5:06 pm

    Too bad about CAK losing Delta, which flew only CAK-ATL. CAK will still retain AA (CAK-CLT) and UA (CAK-IAD) for southeast coverage, which isn't so bad.
     
    MohawkWeekend
    Posts: 281
    Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:06 pm

    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

    Sat May 09, 2020 5:32 pm

    This can't help CAK with debt payments. When COVID-19's impact on aviation is analyzed, one major issue will be on cities funding facilities for airlines. There have always been winners and losers in that game but now the risks are much more evident. Wait until the first airport bond defaults.
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      umichman
      Posts: 150
      Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:42 am

      Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

      Sat May 09, 2020 6:30 pm

      CAK filed an objection to being grouped with CLE as part of a shared service region. This was filed before the final order went out, so looks like they were denied.

      https://downloads.regulations.gov/DOT-O ... ment_1.pdf
       
      pmanni1
      Posts: 252
      Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:17 am

      Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

      Sat May 09, 2020 6:37 pm

      Southwest Airlines
      CLE-MCO: 95%
      CLE-FLL: 64%
      CLE-TPA: 64%
      CLE-RSW: 83%
      CLE-MKE: 43%
      CLE-DAL: 98%
      CLE-MDW: 66%
      CLE-DEN: 89%
      CLE-LAS: 87%
      CLE-PHX: 82%
      CLE-ATL: 79%
      CLE-BNA: 79%
      CLE-BWI: 67%
      CLE-STL: 75%

      I wonder if MKE will ever return when things get back to the new normal. Such a headscratcher that it was ever added in the first place.
       
      User avatar
      CLEguy
      Posts: 351
      Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:49 pm

      Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

      Sat May 09, 2020 7:04 pm

      Remember Vacation Express was scheduled to do nonstop flights between Cleveland and Los Cabos, Mexico, starting in May? The flight was to have operated for seven weekends only, May 24 to July 4. I would assume this has been canceled, no? It's still listed on the Vacation Express website, but when I tried to book flights, I was offered connections. Can you even fly internationally to the US without being quarantined for 14 days?
      Last edited by CLEguy on Sat May 09, 2020 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
       
      fun2fly
      Posts: 1618
      Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

      Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

      Sun May 10, 2020 12:42 pm

      From Enrila's post, if I did the math correctly, DL with 6 flights in June daily and UA less than 5 (no DEN, LAX, IAH). Wow. Others weren't clear/complete.
       
      swacle
      Posts: 532
      Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:41 pm

      Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

      Sun May 10, 2020 2:35 pm

      Southwest is running 10 in June right now.
      Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
       
      greenair727
      Posts: 1473
      Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

      Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

      Sun May 10, 2020 4:18 pm

      umichman wrote:
      CAK filed an objection to being grouped with CLE as part of a shared service region. This was filed before the final order went out, so looks like they were denied.

      https://downloads.regulations.gov/DOT-O ... ment_1.pdf


      from CAK's objection letter:

      "...Before amplifying upon these points further, CAK presents a straight-forward, but compelling, solution. Requested is a revision to the Order that differentiates CAK from CLE and proceed on the correct premise that CAK and CLE do not constitute a single “point” for purposes of determining the obligations of air passenger carriers under the CARES Act...."

      Funny that they say the Cleveland region is not the same "point" as only a few years earlier they had billboards in Downtown Cleveland trying to siphon pax away from Hopkins....what goes around comes around.
       
      MohawkWeekend
      Posts: 281
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      Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

      Sun May 10, 2020 4:39 pm

      Does CLE have around 30 flights a day now?
      SW - 10, DL - 6, UA - 4, AC - 0, AA - ?
      Spirit - ? Frontier - ? Allegiant - ?
      B6 - ?
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        greenair727
        Posts: 1473
        Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

        Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

        Sun May 10, 2020 4:57 pm

        ^It looks grim---I know its Sunday, but two flights an hour right now: https://www.clevelandairport.com/flight ... ght-status
         
        MohawkWeekend
        Posts: 281
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        Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

        Sun May 10, 2020 5:22 pm

        So with 2 flights an hour, will controllers be furloughed? How many TSA checkpoints are needed and will there be a reduction in TSA agents and Cleveland police that man stations?
          300 319 320 321 707 717 720 727 72S 737 73S 734 735 73G 738 739 747 757 762 ARJ B11 C212 CRJ CR2 CR7 CR9 CV5 D8S DC9 D9S D94 D95 D10 DH8 DTO EMB EM2 E135 E145 E190 FH7 F28 F100 FTRIMTR HRN L10 L15 M80 M90 SF3 SWM YS11
           
          greenair727
          Posts: 1473
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          Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

          Sun May 10, 2020 6:19 pm

          Traffic--pax numbers that is--IS increasing from a low in early April. Hopefully no furloughs, for their sake. Currently only "B" security is open of the three TSA checkpoints. (or maybe its only "C"---they kept changing it.)
           
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          CLEguy
          Posts: 351
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          Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

          Mon May 11, 2020 2:29 pm

          greenair727 wrote:
          Traffic--pax numbers that is--IS increasing from a low in early April. Hopefully no furloughs, for their sake. Currently only "B" security is open of the three TSA checkpoints. (or maybe its only "C"---they kept changing it.)


          From CLE's Facebook page: ‪"As of 9:20am today [5/8/20], TSA will move all screening at CLE back to the South checkpoint (nearest to United) and will continue to offer TSA pre-check at that location.‬"
           
          izbtmnhd
          Posts: 945
          Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

          Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

          Mon May 11, 2020 4:54 pm

          greenair727 wrote:
          umichman wrote:
          CAK filed an objection to being grouped with CLE as part of a shared service region. This was filed before the final order went out, so looks like they were denied.

          https://downloads.regulations.gov/DOT-O ... ment_1.pdf


          from CAK's objection letter:

          "...Before amplifying upon these points further, CAK presents a straight-forward, but compelling, solution. Requested is a revision to the Order that differentiates CAK from CLE and proceed on the correct premise that CAK and CLE do not constitute a single “point” for purposes of determining the obligations of air passenger carriers under the CARES Act...."

          Funny that they say the Cleveland region is not the same "point" as only a few years earlier they had billboards in Downtown Cleveland trying to siphon pax away from Hopkins....what goes around comes around.


          Couldn't agree more as it was a decade long advertising campaign with billboards, radio spots and media snippets during Cleveland sporting events on the convenience of CAK over CLE.

          Now the folks running CAK are trying to convince the Feds the airport is located in Marietta. Just wow.
           
          swacle
          Posts: 532
          Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:41 pm

          Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

          Mon May 11, 2020 7:34 pm

          MohawkWeekend wrote:
          Does CLE have around 30 flights a day now?
          SW - 10, DL - 6, UA - 4, AC - 0, AA - ?
          Spirit - ? Frontier - ? Allegiant - ?
          B6 - ?

          Last I heard was AA was at about 8. F9 and NK arw both at 1 less than daily, G4 is anyone's guess. They have flights scheduled but most seem to cancel.

          I have counted between 21 and 25 scheduled departures each day in the last week on FR24.
          Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
           
          LifetimeGS
          Posts: 123
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          Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

          Mon May 11, 2020 9:26 pm

          Time to shut down A and B; everyone should use C gates. Cut the staff and lights. Save the money.
           
          MohawkWeekend
          Posts: 281
          Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:06 pm

          Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

          Mon May 11, 2020 11:39 pm

          Can they do that? I thought the airlines leased specific gates. That might get them out of paying for those leases in A and B which will cost the city that revenue.
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            LifetimeGS
            Posts: 123
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            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Tue May 12, 2020 12:03 am

            Rumor is Kennedy asked and the airlines didn't like the idea. If they land and use gates they have to pay one way or another.
             
            izbtmnhd
            Posts: 945
            Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Tue May 12, 2020 1:10 pm

            swacle wrote:
            MohawkWeekend wrote:
            Does CLE have around 30 flights a day now?
            SW - 10, DL - 6, UA - 4, AC - 0, AA - ?
            Spirit - ? Frontier - ? Allegiant - ?
            B6 - ?

            Last I heard was AA was at about 8. F9 and NK arw both at 1 less than daily, G4 is anyone's guess. They have flights scheduled but most seem to cancel.

            I have counted between 21 and 25 scheduled departures each day in the last week on FR24.


            F9 is operating at 2x/daily now but some days have less ops due to how they schedule their flights. Just this week they added about a dozen more flights to MCO and DEN for the last half of May.
             
            chrisjake
            Posts: 1023
            Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:19 am

            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Tue May 12, 2020 5:36 pm

            izbtmnhd wrote:
            swacle wrote:
            MohawkWeekend wrote:
            Does CLE have around 30 flights a day now?
            SW - 10, DL - 6, UA - 4, AC - 0, AA - ?
            Spirit - ? Frontier - ? Allegiant - ?
            B6 - ?

            Last I heard was AA was at about 8. F9 and NK arw both at 1 less than daily, G4 is anyone's guess. They have flights scheduled but most seem to cancel.

            I have counted between 21 and 25 scheduled departures each day in the last week on FR24.


            F9 is operating at 2x/daily now but some days have less ops due to how they schedule their flights. Just this week they added about a dozen more flights to MCO and DEN for the last half of May.


            I've noticed that. Same plane routing, depending on the day, is MCO-CLE-RSW/TPA-CLE-MCO the last CLE-MCO leg operates first thing the following morning.
             
            izbtmnhd
            Posts: 945
            Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Tue May 12, 2020 8:35 pm

            chrisjake wrote:
            izbtmnhd wrote:
            swacle wrote:
            Last I heard was AA was at about 8. F9 and NK arw both at 1 less than daily, G4 is anyone's guess. They have flights scheduled but most seem to cancel.

            I have counted between 21 and 25 scheduled departures each day in the last week on FR24.


            F9 is operating at 2x/daily now but some days have less ops due to how they schedule their flights. Just this week they added about a dozen more flights to MCO and DEN for the last half of May.


            I've noticed that. Same plane routing, depending on the day, is MCO-CLE-RSW/TPA-CLE-MCO the last CLE-MCO leg operates first thing the following morning.


            F9 CLE ops must be doing OK as they're expanding at a decent clip. Especially when you consider F9 was operating just 4x/weekly to MCO for the last half of April.

            I haven't seen anything for June yet but it's possible they'll be around 3-4 flights daily by the end of that month if the trends continue. F9 could be bigger than UA at Hopkins by July 4th. What weird times.
             
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            OzarkD9S
            Posts: 5734
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            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Tue May 12, 2020 8:41 pm

            LifetimeGS wrote:

            Rumor is Kennedy asked and the airlines didn't like the idea. If they land and use gates they have to pay one way or another.


            From a precautionary standpoint, spreading the gates in use allows for a greater measure of social distancing, even with the dramatically lower volumes.
            Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
             
            swacle
            Posts: 532
            Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:41 pm

            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Tue May 12, 2020 10:07 pm

            OzarkD9S wrote:
            LifetimeGS wrote:

            Rumor is Kennedy asked and the airlines didn't like the idea. If they land and use gates they have to pay one way or another.


            From a precautionary standpoint, spreading the gates in use allows for a greater measure of social distancing, even with the dramatically lower volumes.


            There is also more to consolidating than just moving planes to a different gate. All but a couple gates in C are branded jetBlue, United, or American. No one is spe ding money to rebrand now and I don't think F9, NK, WN, DL, or G4 want to board out of a UA branded gate. There is also technology and employee areas to consider. There would not be enough room under C for all work groups, nor, again, would anyone want to pay to move all those work groups.
            Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
             
            LifetimeGS
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            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Tue May 12, 2020 11:32 pm

            LAS did it.
             
            swacle
            Posts: 532
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            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Wed May 13, 2020 8:44 am

            LifetimeGS wrote:
            LAS did it.


            From the technology standpoint, every gate in LAS is technically common use. That is not the case in CLE.
            Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
             
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            CLEguy
            Posts: 351
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            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Mon May 18, 2020 3:56 pm

            Not sure if you saw the article this past weekend on CAK's struggles: https://www.cleveland.com/business/2020 ... nturn.html

            CAK has lost 1 million passengers since 2012, while CLE has gained just over 1 million during that same time frame (after losing 1.4 mil. post UA de-hubbing). I know there's not a direct correlation, but it is interesting.

            To echo other people's sentiments, I don't feel terribly sorry for CAK. The main thrust of their marketing efforts over the past many years has been directed at attracting passengers from the Greater Cleveland area (their driving map on the website shows a direct line right down I-77 to downtown Cleveland). Now they're crying foul when the Feds actually agree with them and allow carriers to cut service there in favor of CLE. You can't have it both ways!
             
            masseybrown
            Posts: 5558
            Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Wed May 20, 2020 4:55 pm

            Signs of life at CLE. AA running 3 x CLE-CLT and CLE-DFW today. UA tiptoeing back into CLE-NYC with 1 x CLE-EWR.
             
            greenair727
            Posts: 1473
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            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Thu May 21, 2020 2:58 am

            In a mass email sent by UA's Kirby, with the subject, "A message from our new CEO, Scott Kirby" it says,

            "...Safety has always been our most important value at United, and during this crisis it's taken on a new and different significance. We know it will be top-of-mind for you when you resume traveling. So I'm proud to begin my time as CEO by introducing United CleanPlus℠, a new standard of cleanliness and safety, in partnership with Clorox and Cleveland Clinic.

            United CleanPlus is our commitment to putting health and safety at the forefront of your journey, with the goal of delivering an industry-leading standard of cleanliness. Teaming up with Clorox allows us to leverage expertise from the #1 trusted brand for powerful cleaning and disinfecting. And Cleveland Clinic is advising us on our cleaning and disinfection protocols so we can innovate quickly as we learn more about how to protect against COVID-19. As you consider your next trip, we'll be "United Together" with you to help ensure your safety from lobby to landing....."

            Now that Oscar is out, with all these Cleveland Clinic references, could this be a new era for UA and CLE?
             
            fun2fly
            Posts: 1618
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            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Thu May 21, 2020 10:28 am

            greenair727 wrote:
            In a mass email sent by UA's Kirby, with the subject, "A message from our new CEO, Scott Kirby" it says,

            "...Safety has always been our most important value at United, and during this crisis it's taken on a new and different significance. We know it will be top-of-mind for you when you resume traveling. So I'm proud to begin my time as CEO by introducing United CleanPlus℠, a new standard of cleanliness and safety, in partnership with Clorox and Cleveland Clinic.

            United CleanPlus is our commitment to putting health and safety at the forefront of your journey, with the goal of delivering an industry-leading standard of cleanliness. Teaming up with Clorox allows us to leverage expertise from the #1 trusted brand for powerful cleaning and disinfecting. And Cleveland Clinic is advising us on our cleaning and disinfection protocols so we can innovate quickly as we learn more about how to protect against COVID-19. As you consider your next trip, we'll be "United Together" with you to help ensure your safety from lobby to landing....."

            Now that Oscar is out, with all these Cleveland Clinic references, could this be a new era for UA and CLE?


            I think this tells you about the UA / CCF relationship, especially with a few of the fine hospitals down the road from Willis in Chicago. We're pretty lucky from a healthcare perspective in this town.

            I doubt it means anything for UA and CLE however. I'd be happy to get back to where we were in 2019 sometime in 2021.
             
            masseybrown
            Posts: 5558
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            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Fri May 22, 2020 4:55 am

            Ultimate says they think charter flying will come back quickly, but they don't know about their passenger ops out of LUK, BKL, etc.

            https://www.crainscleveland.com/transpo ... o-headline
            .
             
            User avatar
            CLEguy
            Posts: 351
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            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Tue May 26, 2020 2:21 pm

            WEWS reported at 96% drop in passenger traffic at CLE in April (only 30,140 passengers total!), and 400,000 fewer passengers in March over 2019: https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/con ... last-month

            Also, Hopkins to get $46M in federal aid: https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020/05/ ... demic.html
             
            greenair727
            Posts: 1473
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            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Tue May 26, 2020 2:39 pm

            "WEWS reported at 96% drop in passenger traffic at CLE in April"

            That's a crazy number... How does it compare to the US as a whole---is it also 96 or so percent?
             
            Jshank83
            Posts: 3597
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            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Tue May 26, 2020 3:12 pm

            greenair727 wrote:
            "WEWS reported at 96% drop in passenger traffic at CLE in April"

            That's a crazy number... How does it compare to the US as a whole---is it also 96 or so percent?


            Most I have seen are 94-96%. So pretty much in line.
             
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            CLEguy
            Posts: 351
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            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Tue May 26, 2020 5:41 pm

            Here are the YTD stats from CLE's website: https://www.clevelandairport.com/about-us/facts-figures
             
            greenair727
            Posts: 1473
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            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Thu May 28, 2020 2:58 am

            The era of free parking ends 31May.

            "Starting June 1, 2020, the daily rate parking fees at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport will apply to all lots..."

            https://www.cleveland19.com/2020/05/27/ ... gain-june/
             
            greenair727
            Posts: 1473
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            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Thu May 28, 2020 2:59 am

            Some service returning in June:

            "According to the city of Cleveland, the airport, which has had roughly 20 daily departures recently, is scheduled to have upwards of 40 daily departures in June. Next month, Hopkins airport will reinstate nonstop service to Las Vegas, Phoenix, Newark, Washington Reagan, Miami, St. Louis, Raleigh/Durham, Myrtle Beach, Charleston, SC, and Norfolk."

            https://fox8.com/news/coronavirus/sever ... ext-month/
             
            masseybrown
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            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Thu May 28, 2020 4:52 am

            Nice find, greenair. I especially liked Kennedy's comment, “We especially thank American Airlines, currently providing the most departures who is expected to do so again in June followed closely behind by Southwest Airlines, Frontier Airlines and Delta Air Lines.”
             
            greenair727
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            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Thu May 28, 2020 5:49 am

            ^Thanks. And what is glaringly absent, though I guess not surprising, from Kennedy's quote is United.
             
            swacle
            Posts: 532
            Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:41 pm

            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Thu May 28, 2020 9:51 am

            masseybrown wrote:
            Nice find, greenair. I especially liked Kennedy's comment, “We especially thank American Airlines, currently providing the most departures who is expected to do so again in June followed closely behind by Southwest Airlines, Frontier Airlines and Delta Air Lines.”


            Thats good, right? AA is scheduled to operate about 8 flights a day in May. They are canceling an average of 4 per day. Maybe he should look at who is actually flying their schedule before complementing a specific airline!
            Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
             
            avtcle
            Posts: 334
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            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Thu May 28, 2020 5:38 pm

            https://www.cleveland19.com/2020/05/28/ ... ew-routes/

            Frontier Airlines announced 18 new routes today for summer 2020 -- including new service from Cleveland to Sarasota. The route begins June 6, and will operate on Saturdays.

            This route was originally seasonal, and operated November through April. The route was cut short this year, ending in March and removed from the schedule. Glad to see it back, and now year-round!
             
            izbtmnhd
            Posts: 945
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            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Thu May 28, 2020 6:03 pm

            Nicknuzzii wrote:
            F9 seems to be the only carrier that does decent from CLE.


            NK is bringing back most of their schedule by July. Including LAX, LAS, BOS, etc. Will see how much of it sticks.
             
            masseybrown
            Posts: 5558
            Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Thu May 28, 2020 7:03 pm

            swacle wrote:
            masseybrown wrote:
            Nice find, greenair. I especially liked Kennedy's comment, “We especially thank American Airlines, currently providing the most departures who is expected to do so again in June followed closely behind by Southwest Airlines, Frontier Airlines and Delta Air Lines.”


            Thats good, right? AA is scheduled to operate about 8 flights a day in May. They are canceling an average of 4 per day. Maybe he should look at who is actually flying their schedule before complementing a specific airline!


            Well, if they want to be the leader, maybe they'll bring back LAX and SAN from their attic of old routes. :)
             
            fun2fly
            Posts: 1618
            Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Thu May 28, 2020 7:25 pm

            izbtmnhd wrote:
            Nicknuzzii wrote:
            F9 seems to be the only carrier that does decent from CLE.


            NK is bringing back most of their schedule by July. Including LAX, LAS, BOS, etc. Will see how much of it sticks.


            What a delicate balance...run a limited # of flights, but upset customers w/little connectivity / options to preserve cash (UA) vs. AA schedule more flights to see if you fill them, cancel really "light load" flights, but upset customers after you have their $$ vs NK/F9 fire it up, leisure travel is back!!" DL/WN somewhere in the middle.

            Out to get more popcorn (Amazon prime, not retail stores of course), it's going to be interesting to see who makes the right moves.
             
            pmanni1
            Posts: 252
            Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:17 am

            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Thu May 28, 2020 7:54 pm

            WN dropped CLE-MKE in the new extension.
             
            avtcle
            Posts: 334
            Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:21 am

            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Thu May 28, 2020 8:35 pm

            I see its in the schedule as 2x daily through at least the end of October... Hopefully just a seasonal discontinuation or it just hasn't been loaded yet.
             
            masseybrown
            Posts: 5558
            Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Fri May 29, 2020 4:05 pm

            Interesting flight: CLE to Giza, Egypt. The aircraft is probably a Hawker 900.

            VXS4 Sphinx (SPX / HESX) 04:00p EDT 08:24a EET
             
            User avatar
            klm617
            Posts: 5250
            Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Sun May 31, 2020 8:01 pm

            CLEguy wrote:
            MohawkWeekend wrote:
            Did any of you guys go on the United DC-10 Open House? When the DC-10's began service, they brought one in at the first gate on D and let the public walk on board for a tour.
            I didn't realize that AA brought a 747 to Cleveland. So in terms of widebodies that were scheduled into CLE, NW had the DC-10-40's, United had the DC-10-10 and the 747-100, Eastern L-1011, TWA a 767, and AA DC-10-10 and 747, Continental A-300.

            Didn't Condor fly wide bodies here too in the summer? I don't think YAT did but UADiesel10 mentions Malev's 767. One of the rarest charters I saw was a Hawaiian L-1011 taking about 8500' of 5R in a snow storm to go some place warm.


            Don't forget UA 767's to ORD! I don't believe AA ever had regularly scheduled 747 service out of CLE, as UA did. I also don't recall Eastern L-1011's either; where did they fly? Condor most certainly served CLE regularly for many summers in the 1970s-1980s on DC-10s (I flew them in 1982, 1985, 1986 and 1989). Typical routing was CLE-DTW-FRA-CLE. As noted above, JAT also flew DC-10s on summer charters for many seasons. In summer 1988, Martinair also did charters to AMS. I was booked on one, but the CLE leg was canceled and they flew me to BOS on US to catch what I think was an 757? Also Delta bought the route authority from Pan Am for DTW-LHR and had a tag-on flight on an A310 to CLE for a brief time, where passengers actually cleared customs here. I've seen pics on here of an Air Canada 747 parked at A-14 doing a charter from London, but am not sure if it was a regular thing or a one-off flight. Thanks for the trip down memory lane!


            The Air Canada flights were a Summer Charter schedule that was run by a company called Charter Travel. They ran twice weekly in the summer of 1985 and 1986. These flights were supposed to be run with Transamerica Boeing 747's but in the summer of 1985 the Transamerica 747 pilots went on strike and the 747 was replaced with a Transamerica DC-8-73CF and operated DTW-CLE-BGR-FRA-DTW. I flew this flight in the summer of 1985. In the summer of 86 Transmerica went out of business and charter travel got Air Canada as a replacement carrier and the flights were operated LGW-CLE-DTW-FRA and the return was FRA-CLE-DTW-LGW each rotation operating once a week.
            the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
             
            masseybrown
            Posts: 5558
            Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

            Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

            Sun May 31, 2020 8:18 pm

            Nifty minute and a half video by WEWS's John Rudder, showing how jammed the airport is with parked UA planes. I counted 45; there are probably more.

            https://twitter.com/JonRudder/status/12 ... 0062946314

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