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avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:12 am

American Airlines is adding a new nonstop flight from Cleveland to Phoenix to run November-April

The route begins November 7 and will be Saturday only.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:23 am

AA adding Saturday only CLE-PHX for the winter. Specific dates not stated.

https://airlinegeeks.com/2020/08/30/ame ... -re-entry/
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:16 pm

Begins November 7th ^
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:44 pm

^Re PHX, only 1x/wk, but more than nothing, demonstrating AA's slow interest in CLE.

The master plan process is hosting a virtual workshop for the public. September 3, 2020 from 6:00 p.m. – 7:30 p.m. The workshop is a requirement, so it's not clear that any of info collected will be earnestly considered, but hopefully they really open to ideas from the public. Sign up at this link: https://clevelandairportmasterplan.com/workshops.php
 
SgtBarone
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 31, 2020 2:45 pm

Looking forward to the Master Plan meeting. Nice to see that they are engaging with the public.
AGP ATL BCN BNA BOS CLE CLT DCA DEN FLG FLL FRA IAD IAH JAX LAS LAX LGB MAD MCI MDW MKE MUC PHX RDU RSW SEA SJU SLC SNA TPA
 
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CLEguy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:26 pm

greenair727 wrote:
^Re PHX, only 1x/wk, but more than nothing, demonstrating AA's slow interest in CLE.

The master plan process is hosting a virtual workshop for the public. September 3, 2020 from 6:00 p.m. – 7:30 p.m. The workshop is a requirement, so it's not clear that any of info collected will be earnestly considered, but hopefully they really open to ideas from the public. Sign up at this link: https://clevelandairportmasterplan.com/workshops.php


Thanks for the heads-up. Already signed up and hope to see/hear from some of you on Thursday!
 
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CLEguy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:33 pm

RE: the Master Plan. I just found this interesting stakeholder presentation. I wonder if this will be the basis for Thursday's presentation:

https://clevelandairportmasterplan.com/ ... tation.pdf
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:37 pm

CLEguy wrote:
RE: the Master Plan. I just found this interesting stakeholder presentation. I wonder if this will be the basis for Thursday's presentation:

https://clevelandairportmasterplan.com/ ... tation.pdf


That 2021 forecast (do slightly better than the airport is doing today) is dismal. IMO, if we get a vaccine in the first quarter of 2021, it will recover much faster.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:02 pm

avtcle wrote:
Begins November 7th ^


Thanks for the date. Maybe AA will increase the frequency as time goes by.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:25 pm

The Master Plan update is full of current details we rarely see. Market share at CLE after March, 2020, has AA in the lead with 18% of the market, followed by WN, UA, and NK tied at 16%. 2019 seats grew more than you might expect compared to departures - meaning CLE saw bigger planes in 2019. This year, the monthly increase in CLE boardings has outpaced the national numbers every month after March.

Bad news: Growth projections are pretty pessimistic for 2021, although I bet if we get a vaccine the airport will beat projections.

https://clevelandairportmasterplan.com/ ... uto,-242,2
 
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CLEguy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:56 pm

Here's an article about the Master Plan: https://www.cleveland.com/business/2020 ... rport.html

Anyone else registered for the meeting on Thursday?
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:37 pm

KCGF just got $5.6 million from the FAA for ramp and taxiway work. What they need is another 2K ft of runway.
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:31 am

Anyone attend the master plan briefing tonight and able to share any information or thoughts? I tried to make it but couldn't reschedule a conflicting appointment.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:03 am

masseybrown wrote:
The Master Plan update is full of current details we rarely see. Market share at CLE after March, 2020, has AA in the lead with 18% of the market, followed by WN, UA, and NK tied at 16%. 2019 seats grew more than you might expect compared to departures - meaning CLE saw bigger planes in 2019. This year, the monthly increase in CLE boardings has outpaced the national numbers every month after March.
https://clevelandairportmasterplan.com/ ... uto,-242,2


The actual Masterplan presentation gave market share data very different from the above. For July, 2020, UA - 26.8%, DL - 18.6%, WN - 15.1%, AA - 14.3%, F9 - 11.2%, NK - 7.5%, and the rest totaled 6%.

I listened to the presentation (32 minutes - it seemed longer) and there waslittle in the language that wasn't in the slides. The only item I picked up on was international traffic is expected to grow from about 160K pax last year to 600K in 2039. The Q&A session wasn't recorded.

http://www.rsandh.com/collateral/aviation/cle-vpim/
 
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CLEguy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:56 pm

masseybrown wrote:
masseybrown wrote:
The Master Plan update is full of current details we rarely see. Market share at CLE after March, 2020, has AA in the lead with 18% of the market, followed by WN, UA, and NK tied at 16%. 2019 seats grew more than you might expect compared to departures - meaning CLE saw bigger planes in 2019. This year, the monthly increase in CLE boardings has outpaced the national numbers every month after March.
https://clevelandairportmasterplan.com/ ... uto,-242,2


The actual Masterplan presentation gave market share data very different from the above. For July, 2020, UA - 26.8%, DL - 18.6%, WN - 15.1%, AA - 14.3%, F9 - 11.2%, NK - 7.5%, and the rest totaled 6%.

I listened to the presentation (32 minutes - it seemed longer) and there waslittle in the language that wasn't in the slides. The only item I picked up on was international traffic is expected to grow from about 160K pax last year to 600K in 2039. The Q&A session wasn't recorded.

http://www.rsandh.com/collateral/aviation/cle-vpim/


I attended the entire presentation. They said 208 people registered and 105 attended this first of 3 public sessions. The next one is tentatively scheduled for October 14 at 6:00 p.m. (registration is necessary). The Q & A was kind of interesting, but there were a few people who either asked many very specific questions and two who asked a lot about noise (despite the fact that engines are much quieter, the noise footprint of Hopkins has shrunk significantly, and overall operations have gone from 336K in 2000 to 128K in 2019). Director Kennedy promised to talk to those folks offline, which I thought was great. It also kept the session from being sidelined.

The market share you sited above was for July 2019, hence the difference.

In no particular order, these are some of my observations from the presentation and comments by airport leadership:

-As I've noted in the past, the airfield has more than adequate capacity and runway length is sufficient due to newer engine technology
-The terminal will be a large focus of the plan; all options are on the table at this point, including renovation and expansion of the existing terminal or a brand new terminal.
-They will address the future of Concourse D
-The main issues that need to be addressed include
    *A new Federal Inspection Station (FIS) for international arrivals (I too was surprised by the rosy forecast for international passengers, among what I think are rather conservative growth estimates for the next 20 years, unlike past master plans that thought we'd be at 20 million pax by 2000 or other wild projections like that)
    *A consolidate, efficient central TSA security checkpoint; they noted this would be very difficult to achieve in the current terminal
    *Larger gate hold areas
    *A more central rental car facility
    *Landside access, including roadways (access, configuration, congestion at peak times, particularly on the arrivals level), parking (even the hotel is under scrutiny)
-Land use-the footprint for expansion is very limited; they will have to likely replace facilities at the end of their useful life)
-There is demand for transatlantic service from CLE (none for transpacific, in answer to a question), and they are working very hard to attract a new carrier, obviously stalled by the pandemic); they did mention the "Icelandic experiment" of 2018 as well as talks with Aer Lingus. International traffic is predicted to take 5-7 years to rebound, not just at CLE, however.
-They are in talks with 2 ULCC to have a crew domicile at CLE
-They talked about the current closure of runway 24L/6R for the "north runway improvement project" to eliminate several hotspots on the airfield. It will reopen in October and then close again next summer to continue the work.
-Subsidies for international service was asked about like in PIT (and IND). They noted airports can only give limited support for marketing and waiving of some fees, but states and other entities can offer more. That is what Pennsylvania has done aggressively and JobsOhio is looking at a similar program for Ohio's airports.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:49 pm

CLEguy wrote:
The market share you sited above was for July 2019, hence the difference.


Ah, thanks for that correction. I wondered how UA could be so far ahead with so few flights.

Thanks also for the nice summary. I think you're right that traffic will come back quicker than projected.
 
Trk1
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:38 pm

October Cleveland schedules of the Big 4 at Cleveland now that all have posted their downgraded schedules:
Daily schedules: United most seats--- Delta Most flights
United:
Chicago. 4 flights. (2 mainline)
Newark. 3 flights. (1 mainline)
Denver. 2 flights. (2 mainline)
Houston. 2 flights
Washington Dulles. 2 flights (1 mainline)
Orlando. 1 flight. (1 mainline)
San Fran. 1 flight. (1 mainline)

Delta: Atlanta. 6 flights. (6 mainline)
Detroit. 5 flights
MSP. 4 flights
LGA. 1 flight
American
Charlotte. 5 flights. ( 3 mainline)
Dallas 3 flights. (3 mainline)
Chicago. 3 flights
PHL 2 flights

Southwest:
Chicago. 2
BWI. 2
Nashville. 2
Denver. 2
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:20 am

For OCT:

NK is showing 7-8 daily departures Th-Mo and 2-3 daily departures on Tu, We.

LAX, LAS, MYR, MCO, RSW, TPA, ATL, CUN, FLL, DFW

F9 is showing 8 daily departures Th-Mo and 7 daily departures on Tu, We.

PHX, LAS, DEN, RSW, TPA, MCO, SRQ
MCO 2x Daily, LAS 11x weekly
 
greenair727
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:17 pm

CLEguy--thanks for the summary.

CLEguy wrote:
....-The main issues that need to be addressed include
    *A new Federal Inspection Station (FIS) for international arrivals (I too was surprised by the rosy forecast for international passengers, among what I think are rather conservative growth estimates for the next 20 years, unlike past master plans that thought we'd be at 20 million pax by 2000 or other wild projections like that)
    *A consolidate, efficient central TSA security checkpoint; they noted this would be very difficult to achieve in the current terminal
    *Larger gate hold areas
    *A more central rental car facility
    *Landside access, including roadways (access, configuration, congestion at peak times, particularly on the arrivals level), parking (even the hotel is under scrutiny)
-Land use-the footprint for expansion is very limited; they will have to likely replace facilities at the end of their useful life)
-There is demand for transatlantic service from CLE (none for transpacific, in answer to a question), and they are working very hard to attract a new carrier, obviously stalled by the pandemic); they did mention the "Icelandic experiment" of 2018 as well as talks with Aer Lingus. International traffic is predicted to take 5-7 years to rebound, not just at CLE, however.
-They are in talks with 2 ULCC to have a crew domicile at CLE
-They talked about the current closure of runway 24L/6R for the "north runway improvement project" to eliminate several hotspots on the airfield. It will reopen in October and then close again next summer to continue the work.
-Subsidies for international service was asked about like in PIT (and IND). They noted airports can only give limited support for marketing and waiving of some fees, but states and other entities can offer more. That is what Pennsylvania has done aggressively and JobsOhio is looking at a similar program for Ohio's airports.


Some responses:

--Glad to see they realize a new FIS is needed, not 'improvements'.
--I don't want one "consolidated" TSA checkpoint.---its good to have at least two. With one you force all pax to one place making extra walking for almost everyone and if there is an issue at it, everything shuts down because you put all your (security-capabilities) eggs in one basket.
--I'd rather leave the car rental facility where it is and instead use the space on the airport grounds for revenue generating or more meaningful things like offices or hotels.
--Transatlantic service from a major carrier with connections available on the European side is absolutely needed for Cleveland.
 
N766UA
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:15 pm

greenair727 wrote:
CLEguy--thanks for the summary.

CLEguy wrote:
....-The main issues that need to be addressed include
    *A new Federal Inspection Station (FIS) for international arrivals (I too was surprised by the rosy forecast for international passengers, among what I think are rather conservative growth estimates for the next 20 years, unlike past master plans that thought we'd be at 20 million pax by 2000 or other wild projections like that)
    *A consolidate, efficient central TSA security checkpoint; they noted this would be very difficult to achieve in the current terminal
    *Larger gate hold areas
    *A more central rental car facility
    *Landside access, including roadways (access, configuration, congestion at peak times, particularly on the arrivals level), parking (even the hotel is under scrutiny)
-Land use-the footprint for expansion is very limited; they will have to likely replace facilities at the end of their useful life)
-There is demand for transatlantic service from CLE (none for transpacific, in answer to a question), and they are working very hard to attract a new carrier, obviously stalled by the pandemic); they did mention the "Icelandic experiment" of 2018 as well as talks with Aer Lingus. International traffic is predicted to take 5-7 years to rebound, not just at CLE, however.
-They are in talks with 2 ULCC to have a crew domicile at CLE
-They talked about the current closure of runway 24L/6R for the "north runway improvement project" to eliminate several hotspots on the airfield. It will reopen in October and then close again next summer to continue the work.
-Subsidies for international service was asked about like in PIT (and IND). They noted airports can only give limited support for marketing and waiving of some fees, but states and other entities can offer more. That is what Pennsylvania has done aggressively and JobsOhio is looking at a similar program for Ohio's airports.


Some responses:

--Glad to see they realize a new FIS is needed, not 'improvements'.
--I don't want one "consolidated" TSA checkpoint.---its good to have at least two. With one you force all pax to one place making extra walking for almost everyone and if there is an issue at it, everything shuts down because you put all your (security-capabilities) eggs in one basket.
--I'd rather leave the car rental facility where it is and instead use the space on the airport grounds for revenue generating or more meaningful things like offices or hotels.
--Transatlantic service from a major carrier with connections available on the European side is absolutely needed for Cleveland.


Disagree completely. A central TSA checkpoint would be a huge improvement and would help with foot traffic flow. A rental car facility that’s easy to get to is a much better use of space than “offices,” and TATL service would be nice, but it’s absolutely not a neccessity in Cleveland.

Bathrooms larger than a NYC walkup studio would should be a priority, too. And never playing “hey there, delilah” again.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:39 pm

N766UA wrote:
TATL service would be nice, but it’s absolutely not a neccessity in Cleveland.


Most cities of Cleveland's size think it is, which is why they are prepared to underwrite the services. Like having major league sports, downtown living, and nightlife, TATL flights are one of the must-haves to compete for higher-income jobs.
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:38 am

Something to note: first Presidential debate will be held in downtown Cleveland on September 29th so I’m sure we can expect POTUS here 1-2 days before? Though I wonder whether they will land at Burke or Hopkins? Biden doesn’t have official campaign plane as far as I know — unless somebody else knows more. I’d hope they come to Hopkins because that means we’ll get the VC-25.
 
LifetimeGS
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:56 am

Trump will fly in and out same day. 757 BKL, 747 CLE. Id bet on 747 for the show of it. Biden has no plane to date. Might change though now that he is leaving basement.
 
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CLEguy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:29 pm

avtcle wrote:
Something to note: first Presidential debate will be held in downtown Cleveland on September 29th so I’m sure we can expect POTUS here 1-2 days before? Though I wonder whether they will land at Burke or Hopkins? Biden doesn’t have official campaign plane as far as I know — unless somebody else knows more. I’d hope they come to Hopkins because that means we’ll get the VC-25.


Just to clarify, the debate will be at the Health Education Campus at the Cleveland Clinic, not quite downtown. :lol:
 
masseybrown
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:12 pm

Speculation: Will JetBlue take over AA's JFK/LGA-CLE routes? When AA closes 50-seat bases at LGA and JFK, will they turn the flying and the slots over to their new partner JetBlue? Or will AA fly it themselves with E175/CR7 equipment? Or will they just let the CLE routes become a DL monopoly?
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:29 pm

AA has already started using E175 equipment on LGA since United dropped it, though with all the equipment movement now I’m not sure what they’re using or if the route is even running ATM. I’d see JetBlue more likely to take over CLE-JFK, if any.
 
Trk1
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:05 am

the load factors Cle to LGA have been awful the last several years. With the drop of business traffic for the foreseeable future and the yields dropping
it is very possible this route will drop to one carrier. With International traffic expected to also be down for the foreseeable future 2 airlines with connections at JFK seem also not probable especially with the large size of Jet Blue aircraft and little O/D travel on the route.
 
avtcle
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:17 am

JFK serves as a pretty big connection point for JetBlue — especially heading south.
 
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mbm3
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:23 am

LifetimeGS wrote:
Trump will fly in and out same day. 757 BKL, 747 CLE. Id bet on 747 for the show of it. Biden has no plane to date. Might change though now that he is leaving basement.


Since the campaign must reimburse the government for campaign flights, I would guess that he will fly the 757 to BKL.
Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
 
VetteDude
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:56 pm

Breaking news on the I-X Center closing permanently. Good timing with the master plan in progress? Hmm...
 
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CLEguy
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:57 pm

IX-Center is closing. This opens up a large piece of property for the airport's future use--site for a new terminal?

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2020 ... demic.html
 
corn4ahead
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:35 pm

I feel like this is a huge opportunity to turn it into a cargo hub, or at least expand exponentially. In my opinion, the IX Center was a huge roadblock to the future of CLE and I think now is the time to act.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:35 pm

You'd hate to tear it down - that building would be a great cargo hub. Unfortunate Amazon is building one at CVG. Probably too small a footprint for a new terminal.

Both my parents and my mother-in-law worked there during the war.
    300 319 320 321 707 717 720 727 72S 737 73S 734 735 73G 738 739 747 757 762 ARJ B11 C212 CRJ CR2 CR7 CR9 CV5 D8S DC9 D9S D94 D95 D10 DH8 DTO EMB EM2 E135 E145 E190 FH7 F28 F100 FTRIMTR HRN L10 L15 M80 M90 SF3 SWM YS11
     
    deltairlines
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

    Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:33 pm

    CLEguy wrote:
    avtcle wrote:
    Something to note: first Presidential debate will be held in downtown Cleveland on September 29th so I’m sure we can expect POTUS here 1-2 days before? Though I wonder whether they will land at Burke or Hopkins? Biden doesn’t have official campaign plane as far as I know — unless somebody else knows more. I’d hope they come to Hopkins because that means we’ll get the VC-25.


    Just to clarify, the debate will be at the Health Education Campus at the Cleveland Clinic, not quite downtown. :lol:


    I'd expect the C-32 (757) into BKL. If you look at what President Trump's travel has been lately, the C-32 seems to be getting a lot of the use (more than I recall than other presidents). Given that the site is only a couple of miles from BKL (versus on the other side of town from CLE), I'd expect him to go in and out of there and I doubt he spends the night in Cleveland; most of his travel has him back at the White House at the end of the day, or one of his properties.
     
    ncflyer
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

    Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:04 pm

    I can't tell who owns the IX center?? Privately owned, no? Or is it city owned and privately managed?

    To my naked, untrained eye, a google earth view suggests plenty of room for a new terminal at the IX Center sight. Relocating parking, the dumpy looking Sheraton, and more-- now that may be harder. The rapid would have to be extended too, a couple miles probably.
     
    fun2fly
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

    Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:19 pm

    ncflyer wrote:
    I can't tell who owns the IX center?? Privately owned, no? Or is it city owned and privately managed?

    To my naked, untrained eye, a google earth view suggests plenty of room for a new terminal at the IX Center sight. Relocating parking, the dumpy looking Sheraton, and more-- now that may be harder. The rapid would have to be extended too, a couple miles probably.


    The City of CLE owns the IX center. The operating company cancelled the lease and it's $2mm of revenue for the City. If the IX center was out of scope in the strategic plan initially, it's in scope now as it should be. It will be interesting to see the future of this asset as it impacts CLE in many ways (revenue, visitors, etc.).
     
    masseybrown
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

    Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:34 pm

    ncflyer wrote:
    I can't tell who owns the IX center?? Privately owned, no? Or is it city owned and privately managed?

    To my naked, untrained eye, a google earth view suggests plenty of room for a new terminal at the IX Center sight. Relocating parking, the dumpy looking Sheraton, and more-- now that may be harder. The rapid would have to be extended too, a couple miles probably.


    I hope the Rapid is part of any new terminal design. The need for a third runway (the original reason to demolish IX) is probably gone, perhaps for good, but IX could provide a site for a terminal. The masterplan update just got a lot more interesting.

    CLE August numbers are out.

    Passengers Aug, 20 - 315.1K ... Jul, 20 - 320.8K ... Aug, 19 - 910.4K
    Cargo Aug,20 - 15.2M lbs ... Jul,20 - 16.6M lbs ... Aug,19 - 15.9M lbs
     
    VetteDude
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

    Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:55 pm

    https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2020 ... -year.html

    Here's some (possibly fake news since it is Cleveland.com) reporting on the costs to the airport to close. Either way, I am 99.99% sure that nobody in Cuyahoga County has the foresight to see that this could be a pivotal chance to do something radical with our airport.
     
    Trk1
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

    Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:29 pm

    Cleveland.com is not fake news. I would guess that there are many minds in Cuyahoga country that have plenty of foresight The fact is that airline fees will go up with the loss of 2 million in revenue. The chances of a new terminal at that site are slim. The cities that have built new terminals
    such as Kansas City have had a vote to raise taxes for the project. With the no new tax motto of the Greater Cleveland partnership and Leadership of the State of Ohio do not expect much on this front. They do not even want to fund the county library you think they would do Billions for complete new terminal/
     
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    CLEguy
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

    Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:10 pm

    fun2fly wrote:
    ncflyer wrote:
    I can't tell who owns the IX center?? Privately owned, no? Or is it city owned and privately managed?

    To my naked, untrained eye, a google earth view suggests plenty of room for a new terminal at the IX Center sight. Relocating parking, the dumpy looking Sheraton, and more-- now that may be harder. The rapid would have to be extended too, a couple miles probably.


    The City of CLE owns the IX center. The operating company cancelled the lease and it's $2mm of revenue for the City. If the IX center was out of scope in the strategic plan initially, it's in scope now as it should be. It will be interesting to see the future of this asset as it impacts CLE in many ways (revenue, visitors, etc.).


    From the first public meeting, the IX-Center was certainly listed as an airport asset in the presentation. Of course, we didn't know at that time, that it might be closing. We'll see what they say about this new development at next month's pubic session. I'm honestly not sure there would be enough room to build a new terminal in that space, but you could certainly redevelop the cargo area and FBO at this site. Let's hope they come up with something transformational; with interest rates at historic lows, now is the time to act (that is after the plan is completed at approved by the FAA).
     
    MohawkWeekend
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    Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

    Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:18 pm

    The City may be loosing the rent for a exhibition hall but the county just built a magnificent (but smaller) convention center downtown. Years ago, the auto show, boat show etc were all held in old Public Hall and that was fine. The County would now gain from more use of those new underutilized facilities. The IX Center should be used for a aerospace/airfreght operation. Can you imagine what an Amazon airfreight operation would mean for the area?
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      LifetimeGS
      Posts: 123
      Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:29 am

      Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

      Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:34 am

      Yes more empty retail, lost jobs, and havoc.
       
      swacle
      Posts: 532
      Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:41 pm

      Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

      Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:05 am

      LifetimeGS wrote:
      Yes more empty retail, lost jobs, and havoc.


      How does putting an Amazon center where IX is affect how people shop?
      Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
       
      fun2fly
      Posts: 1618
      Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

      Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

      Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:16 pm

      swacle wrote:
      LifetimeGS wrote:
      Yes more empty retail, lost jobs, and havoc.


      How does putting an Amazon center where IX is affect how people shop?


      The number of Amazon facilities being built in the area is staggering and they have had a positive impact on the local economy and cleaned up some pretty decrepit site such as Euclid Sq. Mall, etc. They are currently building 3 more.

      Regardless of where you shop, the Amazon facilities are up for grabs in many cases, and if CLE can offer such an asset to lure it away from being built in another city, then they best get moving on that offering to Amazon. You're essentially stealing this from another city if you land it so those are positive add jobs. I know one of the local sites services Eastern PA and NJ because it's cheaper to build and staff in CLE vs. NJ. In this case, we've stolen NJ jobs, increased local tax revenue and cleaned up a site.

      With the IX center and Ford plant redevelopment, the area could be in for a transformation. Let's hope both of these happen, along with a new terminal, while we are alive.
       
      MohawkWeekend
      Posts: 281
      Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:06 pm

      Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

      Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:55 pm

      Fun2Fly is spot on. FEDEX and Amazon are spending fortunes building facilities at IND and CVG. The IX building with its high ceiling, hanger doors and ramp access for a slew of air freighters seems like an almost turn key operation.

      Speaking of airfreight though - the existing air cargo buildings along route 237 sure could use a little love.
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        swacle
        Posts: 532
        Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:41 pm

        Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

        Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:17 pm

        fun2fly wrote:
        swacle wrote:
        LifetimeGS wrote:
        Yes more empty retail, lost jobs, and havoc.


        How does putting an Amazon center where IX is affect how people shop?


        The number of Amazon facilities being built in the area is staggering and they have had a positive impact on the local economy and cleaned up some pretty decrepit site such as Euclid Sq. Mall, etc. They are currently building 3 more.

        Regardless of where you shop, the Amazon facilities are up for grabs in many cases, and if CLE can offer such an asset to lure it away from being built in another city, then they best get moving on that offering to Amazon. You're essentially stealing this from another city if you land it so those are positive add jobs. I know one of the local sites services Eastern PA and NJ because it's cheaper to build and staff in CLE vs. NJ. In this case, we've stolen NJ jobs, increased local tax revenue and cleaned up a site.

        With the IX center and Ford plant redevelopment, the area could be in for a transformation. Let's hope both of these happen, along with a new terminal, while we are alive.


        My point exactly. Building an Amazon facility is not going to affect how anyone shops. If they were buying from Amazon before a new facility they are buying from Amazon after a new facility. This would just add more decent paying jobs to the area. It may not make up for dying brick and morter retail but it is definitely good for the area, not bad.
        Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
         
        LifetimeGS
        Posts: 123
        Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:29 am

        Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

        Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:47 pm

        Oh but it does when you ask where did you that? Amazon. Cool shoes, Amazon. Killing other retail and other jobs one could argue those jobs are replaced by Amazon, well who wants to work at Amazon? I do not. I'd venture to guess many others do not either. When you have two choices Wal-Mart or Amazon that's not competition. Remember when there two supermarket chains in NEO. Now we have Giant Evil, thankful Meijer is entering the area.

        Back to the air. Ultimate Air Shuttle suspended all scheduled service until 21.
         
        MohawkWeekend
        Posts: 281
        Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:06 pm

        Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

        Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:25 pm

        Brief story from Cleveland.com regarding IX Center

        https://www.cleveland.com/business/2020 ... -says.html
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          masseybrown
          Posts: 5553
          Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

          Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

          Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:41 pm

          Aerozone Alliance has received a $25K grant to study creating an innovation hub around CLE. They say they have received a matching amount from members of the Ohio Aerospace Institute. Well, ok; but $50K doesn't go very far.

          https://www.cleveland.com/business/2020 ... grant.html
           
          User avatar
          CLEguy
          Posts: 351
          Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:49 pm

          Re: Cleveland Aviation Thread - 2020

          Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:31 pm

          Cleveland's customer satisfaction rating has improved.

          https://www.cleveland.com/business/2020 ... 3-headline

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