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SQ22
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Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:10 pm

Welcome to the Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread 2020. Please continue your discussion and to post your updates here.

Link to previous thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1414155
 
Cardude2
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:09 am

Hey guys in case you forgot, I have a google doc with a list of passenger airlines operating the 747-400/300. you guys are free to comment a suggestion: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-gH ... sp=sharing
 
Cardude2
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:38 am

I just saw this article that Thai Airways will retire all of their 747-400’s by 2024 along with their 777-200’s, 777-200ers , and 777-300’s
 
 
Cardude2
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:29 am

virgin Atlantic 747-400 REG G-VBIG is no longer operating for them.
 
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EGTESkyGod
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:42 am

VH-OEF (Qantas OneWorld livery) to retire Sunday 9th February, departing SYD for LAX. From there I presume it will go to VCV.
I came, I saw, I Concorde! www.gofundme.com/lineupandwait
 
Cardude2
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:15 pm

EGTESkyGod wrote:
VH-OEF (Qantas OneWorld livery) to retire Sunday 9th February, departing SYD for LAX. From there I presume it will go to VCV.


not sure that will happen because their using that plane for the coronavirus flights.
https://samchui.com/2020/02/03/how-qant ... j8IxGjYo2x
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:25 pm

Cardude2 wrote:
EGTESkyGod wrote:
VH-OEF (Qantas OneWorld livery) to retire Sunday 9th February, departing SYD for LAX. From there I presume it will go to VCV.


not sure that will happen because their using that plane for the coronavirus flights.
https://samchui.com/2020/02/03/how-qant ... j8IxGjYo2x


VH-OEE is actually the aircraft been used for the Corona virus evacuation flights.
 
dcajet
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:34 pm

Saw that VH-OEF arrived today at SYD as QF28 from SCL, its last commercial round trip. Is this the first ER model to be retired from the QF fleet?
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
Cardude2
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:36 pm

 
Cardude2
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:39 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
Cardude2 wrote:
EGTESkyGod wrote:
VH-OEF (Qantas OneWorld livery) to retire Sunday 9th February, departing SYD for LAX. From there I presume it will go to VCV.


not sure that will happen because their using that plane for the coronavirus flights.
https://samchui.com/2020/02/03/how-qant ... j8IxGjYo2x


VH-OEE is actually the aircraft been used for the Corona virus evacuation flights.


Oh, thanks. I knew Sam Chui was wrong but I couldn't find the number anywhere else and the videos did not help. Sorry about that
 
bennett123
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:19 pm

Saw PH-BFG today.

Apart from being engineless it looks complete.

However, there are two access panels which are clearly open, (one under the forward fuselage and one under the rear fuselage). Each panel is double the size of exit doors.

Seems likely that a lot of avionics have been removed.
 
juliuswong
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:33 am

Orient Thai B747-422 HS-STA previously United N187UA, has been scrapped at BKK recently. She spent 18 years with United before moving on with OX for 5 years in 2001, retired for good in 2016.

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... nes/rqz92r

Have some photo of the scrapping but owner prohibits sharing.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
bennett123
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:50 am

I saw it in October 2019, must have been pretty recent.
 
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qf789
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:07 am

VH-OEF has departed SYD for the last time, QF99 to LAX
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Tankdiver
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:41 am

Qantas VH-OEF as of Feb 11, 2020

ImageQantas VH-OEF by Jimmy Vu, on Flickr

ImageQantas VH-OEF by Jimmy Vu, on Flickr

Image20200211_132139 by Jimmy Vu, on Flickr
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:34 am

Is the white kangaroo a sticker on the 747's tail? Or are they painting it over with matching red paint?
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
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CCA
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:02 am

Painting, in theory the rudders should be mass balanced after painting.
Enthusiast
 
Tankdiver
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:09 am

PANAMsterdam wrote:
Is the white kangaroo a sticker on the 747's tail? Or are they painting it over with matching red paint?


One guy on a cherry picker with a bucket of red paint and a roller. They did the same thing yesterday except with white paint to cover the word Qantas and One World.

Image20200211_092457 by Jimmy Vu, on Flickr
 
shankly
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:50 am

BA used B77W G-STBJ on the BA59 CPT run on 15/02 (returning as BA58 on 16/02). Given the need for a downstream 777 crew, this was not a last minute sub, so wondering is this BA dipping its 77W toe on the CPT run as the 52J fleet is slowly whittled down?
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TUGMASTER
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:25 pm

shankly wrote:
BA used B77W G-STBJ on the BA59 CPT run on 15/02 (returning as BA58 on 16/02). Given the need for a downstream 777 crew, this was not a last minute sub, so wondering is this BA dipping its 77W toe on the CPT run as the 52J fleet is slowly whittled down?


Suspect spare capacity with the Far Eastern flights reduced . And probably knew in advance that they were going to be short of the knackered 747’s.
 
shankly
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:41 pm

Thanks TUGMASTER, good observation. They did have a couple of the "knackered" 744's go tech in the proceeding days down here in CPT
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upperdeckfan
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:50 pm

Is anybody aware of LH 744 strategy? Retirement timeframe? is it affected by 779 delays?
748,744,742,741,772,773,762,763,
764, 789, 732,733,735,737,738,739,
752, 722, 717,74M,DC10,DC9,M82,
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Starfuryt
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:35 pm

upperdeckfan wrote:
Is anybody aware of LH 744 strategy? Retirement timeframe? is it affected by 779 delays?


I would expect it is since they have to be replaced by something. I'm actually curious what LH strategy is in general regarding quads since they have 80 quads in fleet. Granted the B748s and A380s will fly for a while but that still leaves quite a lot of old quads in their fleet.

-Mikhail
 
upperdeckfan
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:58 pm

Starfuryt wrote:
upperdeckfan wrote:
Is anybody aware of LH 744 strategy? Retirement timeframe? is it affected by 779 delays?


I would expect it is since they have to be replaced by something. I'm actually curious what LH strategy is in general regarding quads since they have 80 quads in fleet. Granted the B748s and A380s will fly for a while but that still leaves quite a lot of old quads in their fleet.

-Mikhail


Keep in mind the majority of their A346's are relatively young so they could keep them flying for a while too.

Quite related with quads strategy by the LH group is worhty to mention that LX has fully refurbished their A343's which send the message they plan to fly them for a long time.
748,744,742,741,772,773,762,763,
764, 789, 732,733,735,737,738,739,
752, 722, 717,74M,DC10,DC9,M82,
M83, M87, M88,310,319,320,321,332,
333, 343, 346,359,388,L1011,CR2,
CR7, CR9,CRK, E175,E190,ATR42,
DSH8, CS1,CS3
 
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Slug71
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:15 am

upperdeckfan wrote:
Starfuryt wrote:
upperdeckfan wrote:
Is anybody aware of LH 744 strategy? Retirement timeframe? is it affected by 779 delays?


I would expect it is since they have to be replaced by something. I'm actually curious what LH strategy is in general regarding quads since they have 80 quads in fleet. Granted the B748s and A380s will fly for a while but that still leaves quite a lot of old quads in their fleet.

-Mikhail


Keep in mind the majority of their A346's are relatively young so they could keep them flying for a while too.

Quite related with quads strategy by the LH group is worhty to mention that LX has fully refurbished their A343's which send the message they plan to fly them for a long time.


The A346 and A343 are being replaced by the A359 and B789. I think the B789 deliveries begin in 2022.
 
Cardude2
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:37 am

Slug71 wrote:
upperdeckfan wrote:
Starfuryt wrote:

I would expect it is since they have to be replaced by something. I'm actually curious what LH strategy is in general regarding quads since they have 80 quads in fleet. Granted the B748s and A380s will fly for a while but that still leaves quite a lot of old quads in their fleet.

-Mikhail


Keep in mind the majority of their A346's are relatively young so they could keep them flying for a while too.

Quite related with quads strategy by the LH group is worthy to mention that LX has fully refurbished their A343's which send the message they plan to fly them for a long time.


The A346 and A343 are being replaced by the A359 and B789. I think the B789 deliveries begin in 2022.


yeah, all the a340's are getting replaced by the a350-900 and the 787-9. the 747-400's and 6 of the a380's are getting replaced by the 777-9
 
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Iemand91
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:17 pm

KLM PH-BFH "City of Hong Kong" has been withdrawn from service. Last flight was KL602 from LAX to AMS on February 27-28.
Will be flown to Teruel for dismantling and scrap later this month.
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
Cardude2
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:05 pm

Urgent news, KLM will retire their 2 747-400's and 5 747-400 combis at the end of March due to the coronavirus. they will still keep their 3 747-400F's that are operated by Martinair Holland

sources:
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronav ... ner-2020-3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMSvCu2NnzI
https://simpleflying.com/klm-early-boei ... etirement/
 
UA444
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:14 pm

juliuswong wrote:
Orient Thai B747-422 HS-STA previously United N187UA, has been scrapped at BKK recently. She spent 18 years with United before moving on with OX for 5 years in 2001, retired for good in 2016.

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... nes/rqz92r

Have some photo of the scrapping but owner prohibits sharing.

Sad. So many -422s gone.
 
UAEflyer
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:05 am

Any VIP 747 retired recently or scheduled to retire ?
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:56 am

BA have 5 aircraft due to retire this year, G-CIVD MAY, G-CIVH JUNE, G-CIVI SEP, G-CIVK NOV, G-CIVL NOV.
Probable this will be brought forward?
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
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Arion640
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:46 am

readytotaxi wrote:
BA have 5 aircraft due to retire this year, G-CIVD MAY, G-CIVH JUNE, G-CIVI SEP, G-CIVK NOV, G-CIVL NOV.
Probable this will be brought forward?


I think G-CIVM is also going.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:04 pm

Arion640 wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
BA have 5 aircraft due to retire this year, G-CIVD MAY, G-CIVH JUNE, G-CIVI SEP, G-CIVK NOV, G-CIVL NOV.
Probable this will be brought forward?


I think G-CIVM is also going.

Yes, set for Jan 2021
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
Arion640
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:08 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
BA have 5 aircraft due to retire this year, G-CIVD MAY, G-CIVH JUNE, G-CIVI SEP, G-CIVK NOV, G-CIVL NOV.
Probable this will be brought forward?


I think G-CIVM is also going.

Yes, set for Jan 2021


She’s going next week now: https://mobile.twitter.com/Tim_the_Pilo ... 0793731073
 
shankly
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:10 pm

That's a rip through the 52J fleet

9/11 brought a rapid end to the BA 747 Classics; wonder if CV19 will be the same for the 744's
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xjetflyer2001
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:03 pm

How many One World Painted 747's does BA have? If I counted correctly looks like 5 of them are being retired this year.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:42 pm

Arion640 wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
Arion640 wrote:

I think G-CIVM is also going.

Yes, set for Jan 2021


She’s going next week now: https://mobile.twitter.com/Tim_the_Pilo ... 0793731073


https://www.flightradar24.com/BAW9171/2433c3b1

Afraid she is going now, on route to scrapper.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
Arion640
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:12 am

Some of BA 747’s will be retired allegedly.

https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/03/2 ... onal-plan/
 
Cardude2
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:26 am

Arion640 wrote:
Some of BA 747’s will be retired allegedly.

https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/03/2 ... onal-plan/


they also talked about it on simple flying

https://simpleflying.com/british-airway ... ent-covid/
 
tullamarine
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:45 am

QF's 747s will be all grounded by the end of the month; it is likely they will never fly commercially for the airline again.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
factsonly
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:11 pm

Stan Wraight, the CEO of aviation consultancy Strategic Aviation Solutions International (SASI based in Hong Kong), has called on AF/KLM Chief Executives to keep the B744Combi in service, now cargo is becoming a major logistics issue. The KLM combi aircraft could fit the need for additional short-term airlift.

Montreal, March 20,2020

An open letter to Ben Smith, Chairman Air France KLM Group and Peter Elbers President KLM Royal Dutch Airlines.

Gentlemen,

You don’t know me, but I had the honour to work for KLM Cargo for over 32 years culminating with global responsibility for cargo sales and marketing based in Schiphol. Prior to that I was VP cargo and area manager Canada and then Middle East, Asia and Australia.

During my 32 years of service I saw how the B747-400 Combi saved KLM financially on numerous occasions as a true cargo aircraft was needed during the gulf war crisis, SARS etc., and it allowed us to continue operations with at least a break-even result.

Now more than ever these aircraft are needed to support humanitarian requirements for goods and services, keeping supply chains open so that production of these critical health-related supplies flow, and to enable people to retain their jobs in all the continents you serve. It is not an obligation, but it is certainly what morally you should be thinking of doing. The world will thank you in the end for this initiative, and I know the logistics community will back you.

Airlines are flying passenger B787/B777 as freighters through belly hold capacity to help, and I am sure you are looking at that as well. But much of the medical relief goods that people want to ship is volumetric and some of it will be main deck. The best case for a pax 787/777 as a freight-only option is approx. 120 cubic meters.

However the 747-400M (Combi) operated just for freight has seven main deck Q7 possible at 18 cubic meters each, plus a possible 9 lower deck pallets at a minimum 10 cubic meters each, plus bag containers and bulk, easily 230 to 240 cubic meters and this is a mini freighter even with all pax related EIC in place. We regularly achieved over 45 metric tons on the 14-pallet version, flying it for now and the foreseeable future as pure all-cargo alternative, more tonnage will be possible.

Please do the right thing, global shippers, forwarders, health authorities will pay what is needed to ensure you do not lose money if that is an issue, And I am sure the Netherlands Logistics community with its vital role in global trade will be very supportive as well.

We are counting on you,

Sincerely

Stan Wraight

CEO

https://theloadstar.com/an-open-letter- ... 747-combi/
 
Cardude2
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:09 pm

factsonly wrote:
Stan Wraight, the CEO of aviation consultancy Strategic Aviation Solutions International (SASI based in Hong Kong), has called on AF/KLM Chief Executives to keep the B744Combi in service, now cargo is becoming a major logistics issue. The KLM combi aircraft could fit the need for additional short-term airlift.

Montreal, March 20,2020

An open letter to Ben Smith, Chairman Air France KLM Group and Peter Elbers President KLM Royal Dutch Airlines.

Gentlemen,

You don’t know me, but I had the honour to work for KLM Cargo for over 32 years culminating with global responsibility for cargo sales and marketing based in Schiphol. Prior to that I was VP cargo and area manager Canada and then Middle East, Asia and Australia.

During my 32 years of service I saw how the B747-400 Combi saved KLM financially on numerous occasions as a true cargo aircraft was needed during the gulf war crisis, SARS etc., and it allowed us to continue operations with at least a break-even result.

Now more than ever these aircraft are needed to support humanitarian requirements for goods and services, keeping supply chains open so that production of these critical health-related supplies flow, and to enable people to retain their jobs in all the continents you serve. It is not an obligation, but it is certainly what morally you should be thinking of doing. The world will thank you in the end for this initiative, and I know the logistics community will back you.

Airlines are flying passenger B787/B777 as freighters through belly hold capacity to help, and I am sure you are looking at that as well. But much of the medical relief goods that people want to ship is volumetric and some of it will be main deck. The best case for a pax 787/777 as a freight-only option is approx. 120 cubic meters.

However the 747-400M (Combi) operated just for freight has seven main deck Q7 possible at 18 cubic meters each, plus a possible 9 lower deck pallets at a minimum 10 cubic meters each, plus bag containers and bulk, easily 230 to 240 cubic meters and this is a mini freighter even with all pax related EIC in place. We regularly achieved over 45 metric tons on the 14-pallet version, flying it for now and the foreseeable future as pure all-cargo alternative, more tonnage will be possible.

Please do the right thing, global shippers, forwarders, health authorities will pay what is needed to ensure you do not lose money if that is an issue, And I am sure the Netherlands Logistics community with its vital role in global trade will be very supportive as well.

We are counting on you,

Sincerely

Stan Wraight

CEO

https://theloadstar.com/an-open-letter- ... 747-combi/


not surprised. American Airlines is doing the same thing with their 777-300er's. I think the best-case scenario is that KLM turns these 747's into BCF's. not sure what's going to happen though with PH-BFL and PH-BFN there 2 regular 747-400
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:21 am

Cardude2 wrote:
factsonly wrote:
Stan Wraight, the CEO of aviation consultancy Strategic Aviation Solutions International (SASI based in Hong Kong), has called on AF/KLM Chief Executives to keep the B744Combi in service, now cargo is becoming a major logistics issue. The KLM combi aircraft could fit the need for additional short-term airlift.

Montreal, March 20,2020

An open letter to Ben Smith, Chairman Air France KLM Group and Peter Elbers President KLM Royal Dutch Airlines.

Gentlemen,

You don’t know me, but I had the honour to work for KLM Cargo for over 32 years culminating with global responsibility for cargo sales and marketing based in Schiphol. Prior to that I was VP cargo and area manager Canada and then Middle East, Asia and Australia.

During my 32 years of service I saw how the B747-400 Combi saved KLM financially on numerous occasions as a true cargo aircraft was needed during the gulf war crisis, SARS etc., and it allowed us to continue operations with at least a break-even result.

Now more than ever these aircraft are needed to support humanitarian requirements for goods and services, keeping supply chains open so that production of these critical health-related supplies flow, and to enable people to retain their jobs in all the continents you serve. It is not an obligation, but it is certainly what morally you should be thinking of doing. The world will thank you in the end for this initiative, and I know the logistics community will back you.

Airlines are flying passenger B787/B777 as freighters through belly hold capacity to help, and I am sure you are looking at that as well. But much of the medical relief goods that people want to ship is volumetric and some of it will be main deck. The best case for a pax 787/777 as a freight-only option is approx. 120 cubic meters.

However the 747-400M (Combi) operated just for freight has seven main deck Q7 possible at 18 cubic meters each, plus a possible 9 lower deck pallets at a minimum 10 cubic meters each, plus bag containers and bulk, easily 230 to 240 cubic meters and this is a mini freighter even with all pax related EIC in place. We regularly achieved over 45 metric tons on the 14-pallet version, flying it for now and the foreseeable future as pure all-cargo alternative, more tonnage will be possible.

Please do the right thing, global shippers, forwarders, health authorities will pay what is needed to ensure you do not lose money if that is an issue, And I am sure the Netherlands Logistics community with its vital role in global trade will be very supportive as well.

We are counting on you,

Sincerely

Stan Wraight

CEO

https://theloadstar.com/an-open-letter- ... 747-combi/


not surprised. American Airlines is doing the same thing with their 777-300er's. I think the best-case scenario is that KLM turns these 747's into BCF's. not sure what's going to happen though with PH-BFL and PH-BFN there 2 regular 747-400


Turning them into BCF’s would still take a few months or at least a couple of months wouldn’t it? Probably not worth it, just fly them as Combis with Freight only if need be.

The 2 regular 744s would likely go the way of the rest of the fleet, scrapped.
 
Cardude2
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 am

Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:00 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
Cardude2 wrote:
factsonly wrote:
Stan Wraight, the CEO of aviation consultancy Strategic Aviation Solutions International (SASI based in Hong Kong), has called on AF/KLM Chief Executives to keep the B744Combi in service, now cargo is becoming a major logistics issue. The KLM combi aircraft could fit the need for additional short-term airlift.

Montreal, March 20,2020

An open letter to Ben Smith, Chairman Air France KLM Group and Peter Elbers President KLM Royal Dutch Airlines.

Gentlemen,

You don’t know me, but I had the honour to work for KLM Cargo for over 32 years culminating with global responsibility for cargo sales and marketing based in Schiphol. Prior to that I was VP cargo and area manager Canada and then Middle East, Asia and Australia.

During my 32 years of service I saw how the B747-400 Combi saved KLM financially on numerous occasions as a true cargo aircraft was needed during the gulf war crisis, SARS etc., and it allowed us to continue operations with at least a break-even result.

Now more than ever these aircraft are needed to support humanitarian requirements for goods and services, keeping supply chains open so that production of these critical health-related supplies flow, and to enable people to retain their jobs in all the continents you serve. It is not an obligation, but it is certainly what morally you should be thinking of doing. The world will thank you in the end for this initiative, and I know the logistics community will back you.

Airlines are flying passenger B787/B777 as freighters through belly hold capacity to help, and I am sure you are looking at that as well. But much of the medical relief goods that people want to ship is volumetric and some of it will be main deck. The best case for a pax 787/777 as a freight-only option is approx. 120 cubic meters.

However the 747-400M (Combi) operated just for freight has seven main deck Q7 possible at 18 cubic meters each, plus a possible 9 lower deck pallets at a minimum 10 cubic meters each, plus bag containers and bulk, easily 230 to 240 cubic meters and this is a mini freighter even with all pax related EIC in place. We regularly achieved over 45 metric tons on the 14-pallet version, flying it for now and the foreseeable future as pure all-cargo alternative, more tonnage will be possible.

Please do the right thing, global shippers, forwarders, health authorities will pay what is needed to ensure you do not lose money if that is an issue, And I am sure the Netherlands Logistics community with its vital role in global trade will be very supportive as well.

We are counting on you,

Sincerely

Stan Wraight

CEO

https://theloadstar.com/an-open-letter- ... 747-combi/


not surprised. American Airlines is doing the same thing with their 777-300er's. I think the best-case scenario is that KLM turns these 747's into BCF's. not sure what's going to happen though with PH-BFL and PH-BFN there 2 regular 747-400


Turning them into BCF’s would still take a few months or at least a couple of months, wouldn’t it? Probably not worth it, just fly them as Combis with Freight only if need be.

The 2 regular 744s would likely go the way of the rest of the fleet, scrapped.


I agree, but I was talking about for the future. retire the 747-400 for passenger service and retrofit to cargo
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 7535
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:27 am

Cardude2 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Cardude2 wrote:

not surprised. American Airlines is doing the same thing with their 777-300er's. I think the best-case scenario is that KLM turns these 747's into BCF's. not sure what's going to happen though with PH-BFL and PH-BFN there 2 regular 747-400


Turning them into BCF’s would still take a few months or at least a couple of months, wouldn’t it? Probably not worth it, just fly them as Combis with Freight only if need be.

The 2 regular 744s would likely go the way of the rest of the fleet, scrapped.


I agree, but I was talking about for the future. retire the 747-400 for passenger service and retrofit to cargo


TBH the last 747 conversion to a Freighter was probably 2 years ago and before they it had been a trickle for a few years. Conversions aren’t as efficient don’t have the nose door , ok not everyone uses the nose door but can’t uplift as much. I wouldn’t think we would see anymore 744 conversions myself though there are a few 2000s built aircraft still flying with QF/CI/TG, not sure for how much longer now though.
 
United857
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:37 am

Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:06 am

Quick question, is it possible to fly a combi with main deck pallets while the passenger cabin is empty without the center of gravity going out of limits? Since the cargo section is between doors 4 and 5, I'd imagine that would be very tail heavy.
A319 A320 A321 A333 A343 A346 A388 B712 B733 B737 B738 B739 B744 B748 B752 B764 B772 B77L B77W B788 B789 CRJ2 E145 E75S E75L E190 MD88 MD90
AA AC B6 CA CX CZ DL EK FM HU JL KA LH LX MU NH NK TK UA US
 
Cardude2
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 am

Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:32 pm

United857 wrote:
Quick question, is it possible to fly a combi with main deck pallets while the passenger cabin is empty without the center of gravity going out of limits? Since the cargo section is between doors 4 and 5, I'd imagine that would be very tail heavy.


True, although I think they thought about it
 
trex8
Posts: 5592
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:29 pm

Planespotters has 3 of CIs 744 stored, looking at flightradar 24, 3 haven't been use for 1-2 months and the 4th "non stored " B18215 hasn't flown since 3/19
 
Arion640
Posts: 3112
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:01 pm

KLM’s 747’s bowing out this weekend along with (Allegedly) Qantas.

Sadly I never made it to a flight with either operator.
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