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TUGMASTER
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:56 pm

Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:14 pm

ThePinnacleKid wrote:
Supposedly 3 ex-Virgin Atlantic birds have been purchased by Atlas Air to expand the 747 Pax charter fleet (primarily for AMC lift)... tails are G-VROM, G-VROS, and G-VROY


G-VROM is parked up at the VS hanger at LHR.
Pre sale checks..? End of lease MX...?
 
aristoenigma
Posts: 135
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:28 pm

Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:32 am

aristoenigma wrote:
The two 744 VIPs (used as Japan's Air Force Ones as 20-1102 and 20-1101) were sent to MZJ and up for sale with CSDS Aircraft Sales and Leasing. They both are now registered as owned by Bank of Utah Trustee. Pretty nice low hour/cycles 744 PAX aircraft. Any knowledge out there where they will end up?

According to Forbes a few months ago

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... 4ac5667513

the asking price for one was cut to $12.5M from $28M and the second plane may be converted to a Freighter. I guess the freighter conversion economics always work when the underlying frame costs gets closer to zero in a Covid world.

.
https://www.businessinsider.com/japan-a ... tos-2019-8

https://www.flightglobal.com/business-a ... 96.article


Apparently 16000 hours only .
 
QF744ER
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:55 am

The most recent photo I saw, one was parked engineless and the other missing 2 of her engines.

There’s factory B744F’s sitting in the desert with a rumoured price tag of around $12.5million a piece, the sums just don’t add up, especially as a factory freighter will always be more capable than a converted one.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:08 pm

QF744ER wrote:
The most recent photo I saw, one was parked engineless and the other missing 2 of her engines.

There’s factory B744F’s sitting in the desert with a rumoured price tag of around $12.5million a piece, the sums just don’t add up, especially as a factory freighter will always be more capable than a converted one.


And the pesky issue that there has been no complete P2F conversions in years. Bedek is swamped with 767 conversions anyway, I seriously doubt they have capacity for a one off like this.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
aristoenigma
Posts: 135
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:33 pm

Spacepope wrote:
QF744ER wrote:
The most recent photo I saw, one was parked engineless and the other missing 2 of her engines.

There’s factory B744F’s sitting in the desert with a rumoured price tag of around $12.5million a piece, the sums just don’t add up, especially as a factory freighter will always be more capable than a converted one.


And the pesky issue that there has been no complete P2F conversions in years. Bedek is swamped with 767 conversions anyway, I seriously doubt they have capacity for a one off like this.


Thanks gents. Despite the very low hours/cycles for the two former Japanese AF1s I suspect parting out may be their destinies.

Is it true the former Brunei Government 744 VIP (V8-ALI) is there at Pinal Airpark as well? Haven't heard if that is for sale.

I think the former Qatari grandfather Emir's 747SP VIP (VP-BAT) is there at Pinal Airpark as well and is being marketed for sale.

Tough against the double tide of Covid-19 and 747 sunsetting. I suppose lots of expensive 744 and 747SP toys are going to be melted down rather than redploy. Maybe Las Vegas Sands can get a deal for the ages?
 
777luver
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:51 pm

Air China, Rossiya and Asiana have 747-400 flights in the sched for September, according to routesonline. Albeit only 7 -400s in total
 
aristoenigma
Posts: 135
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:08 pm

aristoenigma wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
QF744ER wrote:
The most recent photo I saw, one was parked engineless and the other missing 2 of her engines.

There’s factory B744F’s sitting in the desert with a rumoured price tag of around $12.5million a piece, the sums just don’t add up, especially as a factory freighter will always be more capable than a converted one.


And the pesky issue that there has been no complete P2F conversions in years. Bedek is swamped with 767 conversions anyway, I seriously doubt they have capacity for a one off like this.


Thanks gents. Despite the very low hours/cycles for the two former Japanese AF1s I suspect parting out may be their destinies.

Is it true the former Brunei Government 744 VIP (V8-ALI) is there at Pinal Airpark as well? Haven't heard if that is for sale.

I think the former Qatari grandfather Emir's 747SP VIP (VP-BAT) is there at Pinal Airpark as well and is being marketed for sale.

Tough against the double tide of Covid-19 and 747 sunsetting. I suppose lots of expensive 744 and 747SP toys are going to be melted down rather than redploy. Maybe Las Vegas Sands can get a deal for the ages?


According to Planespotters.net https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... ent/rmlqoe
the Sultan of Brunei's old 744 VIP was stored a year in Germany and then stored at Pinal Airpark in 2018. Would that move to Arizona be for maintenance, sales prep or eventual part out?
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:05 am

TUGMASTER wrote:
ThePinnacleKid wrote:
Supposedly 3 ex-Virgin Atlantic birds have been purchased by Atlas Air to expand the 747 Pax charter fleet (primarily for AMC lift)... tails are G-VROM, G-VROS, and G-VROY


G-VROM is parked up at the VS hanger at LHR.
Pre sale checks..? End of lease MX...?


G-VROS has joined Oscar Mike at LHR.
Arrived from MAN on 8th Sep.
 
machbullet
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:36 pm

Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:51 pm

LGWGate49 wrote:
I think this is the right place for this nice tribute to the 747 in the UK Daily Telegraph

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/visual-stor ... oeing-747/


Thanks for sharing, cool link
 
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VCVSpotter
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:50 pm

KLM 747-400 PH-BFL will ferry AMS-ORD-MHV as KL9879 on October 5, 2020 for retirement. This will be the final flight of a KLM 747-400 (non-Combi). Departure from AMS will be 8:55AM local, with arrival at MHV around 2PM local (where I'll likely be waiting for her). She currently has 133,465 flight hours and 17,225 cycles. It is rumored that she will become a parts donor for Western Global Airlines.

Source (in Dutch): https://www.scramble.nl/community/messa ... start=4560
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9 • Farewell KLM 747-400M
 
MEA-707
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:15 am

Spacepope wrote:
QF744ER wrote:
The most recent photo I saw, one was parked engineless and the other missing 2 of her engines.

There’s factory B744F’s sitting in the desert with a rumoured price tag of around $12.5million a piece, the sums just don’t add up, especially as a factory freighter will always be more capable than a converted one.


And the pesky issue that there has been no complete P2F conversions in years. Bedek is swamped with 767 conversions anyway, I seriously doubt they have capacity for a one off like this.

Indeed it would be crazy to convert a 744 at this time. I suspect a short term use, taking out the pax seats and loading parcels thru the pax doors maybe in the time the vaccins have to be delivered and thén they let it go or use it for pax charters.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
AirwayBill
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:21 pm

Does anyone have insights about the 4 China Airlines (CI) late-build pax 747-400s, currently stored in TPE?

There have been rumors of retirement by the end of July but it would seem nothing official/concrete actually happened?
 
trex8
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:12 am

AirwayBill wrote:
Does anyone have insights about the 4 China Airlines (CI) late-build pax 747-400s, currently stored in TPE?

There have been rumors of retirement by the end of July but it would seem nothing official/concrete actually happened?


3 weeks ago further up the thread I posted:

Heres the flight activity for CIs 4 744s from flightradar24
B18210- 6/15, 5/15, 4/23, last revenue flight 2/3
B18211 - 7/26, last rev 3/8
B18212 - 7/27, 6/28, 6/27, 6/27, 6/16, 5/31, 5/31,5/2 last rev 2/8
B18215 - 6/24, 5/27, 4/23, 3/19, last rev 3/15

B18215 has flown again 8/18, others no new activity.

I think they are going to be gone, makes no sense to keep them when they have 77Ws and A359s with spare capacity and better hard product especially since they no longer sell F fares and have been putting J customers in the F seats of the 744s for some time already

In the cargo carrier thread I posted 3 744Fs they planned back in Feb to sell to make way for the new 777Fs are going to stay on.
 
QF744ER
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:47 pm

Any idea if this includes the 1-2 CI 744F’s sat basking in the Californian desert?

Think one is B-18703 which is painted all white?
 
trex8
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:11 am

QF744ER wrote:
Any idea if this includes the 1-2 CI 744F’s sat basking in the Californian desert?

Think one is B-18703 which is painted all white?

Good question. I would have thought the 3 to be sold were active as they were to be replaced by 777Fs.
IIRC the 2 still stored at Victorville are minus engines. Of course they have 4 potential donor frames!!
They did reactivate one from the desert and sell it last year to ASL Belgium
 
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Iemand91
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:48 pm

British Airways G-CIVE has just departed Heathrow for St Athan: https://www.flightradar24.com/BAW9173/2584ad95
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
AirwayBill
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:51 pm

trex8 wrote:
AirwayBill wrote:
Does anyone have insights about the 4 China Airlines (CI) late-build pax 747-400s, currently stored in TPE?

There have been rumors of retirement by the end of July but it would seem nothing official/concrete actually happened?


3 weeks ago further up the thread I posted:

Heres the flight activity for CIs 4 744s from flightradar24
B18210- 6/15, 5/15, 4/23, last revenue flight 2/3
B18211 - 7/26, last rev 3/8
B18212 - 7/27, 6/28, 6/27, 6/27, 6/16, 5/31, 5/31,5/2 last rev 2/8
B18215 - 6/24, 5/27, 4/23, 3/19, last rev 3/15

B18215 has flown again 8/18, others no new activity.

I think they are going to be gone, makes no sense to keep them when they have 77Ws and A359s with spare capacity and better hard product especially since they no longer sell F fares and have been putting J customers in the F seats of the 744s for some time already

In the cargo carrier thread I posted 3 744Fs they planned back in Feb to sell to make way for the new 777Fs are going to stay on.


Makes sense. Thanks for the info!
 
Cardude2
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:23 pm

Bad news, luftansa is retiring all there 747-400's and A380's. They are keeping the 747-8I's

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... retirement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCOdMUrXc90
 
bennett123
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:01 pm

http://www.southwalesaviationgroup.co.u ... athan.html

G-BNLN scrapped DGX by 30/03/2020
G-VBIG scrapped DGX 05/2020
G-CIVG scrapped DGX 10/07/2020
G-CIVM scrapped DGX 09/2020

They still have G-CIVE, G-CIVI and G-VAST but the year is still young.
 
Angelovo
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:24 pm

According to aerotransport.org, Rossiya Airlines will acquire the 7 newest 744 from British Airways. Built between 12.98 and 04.99. Seems like we will see them back in passenger transport.
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audidudi
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:08 pm

Angelovo wrote:
According to aerotransport.org, Rossiya Airlines will acquire the 7 newest 744 from British Airways. Built between 12.98 and 04.99. Seems like we will see them back in passenger transport.

Correct! These are G-BYGA, G-BYGB, G-BYGC, G-BYGD, G-BYGE, G-BYGF and G-BYGG...two of which are already engineless at GBA! BYGA, BYGB and BYGF are the three at GBA, the others are currently at CWL.
 
Cardude2
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:56 pm

audidudi wrote:
Angelovo wrote:
According to aerotransport.org, Rossiya Airlines will acquire the 7 newest 744 from British Airways. Built between 12.98 and 04.99. Seems like we will see them back in passenger transport.

Correct! These are G-BYGA, G-BYGB, G-BYGC, G-BYGD, G-BYGE, G-BYGF and G-BYGG...two of which are already engineless at GBA! BYGA, BYGB and BYGF are the three at GBA, the others are currently at CWL.

just a bet, there probably disposing of the Rolls Royce engines and replacing them with GE engines that all the other 747's have
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:14 pm

Cardude2 wrote:
audidudi wrote:
Angelovo wrote:
According to aerotransport.org, Rossiya Airlines will acquire the 7 newest 744 from British Airways. Built between 12.98 and 04.99. Seems like we will see them back in passenger transport.

Correct! These are G-BYGA, G-BYGB, G-BYGC, G-BYGD, G-BYGE, G-BYGF and G-BYGG...two of which are already engineless at GBA! BYGA, BYGB and BYGF are the three at GBA, the others are currently at CWL.

just a bet, there probably disposing of the Rolls Royce engines and replacing them with GE engines that all the other 747's have


re-engining 7 aircraft?

No, that's not in the realm of possibilities.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
LebedevXD
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:46 am

Angelovo wrote:
According to aerotransport.org, Rossiya Airlines will acquire the 7 newest 744 from British Airways. Built between 12.98 and 04.99. Seems like we will see them back in passenger transport.


This was confirmed to be fake yesterday (21 September).
 
FLLspotter747
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:27 pm

LebedevXD wrote:
Angelovo wrote:
According to aerotransport.org, Rossiya Airlines will acquire the 7 newest 744 from British Airways. Built between 12.98 and 04.99. Seems like we will see them back in passenger transport.


This was confirmed to be fake yesterday (21 September).


Source?
 
LebedevXD
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:50 pm

FLLspotter747 wrote:
LebedevXD wrote:
Angelovo wrote:
According to aerotransport.org, Rossiya Airlines will acquire the 7 newest 744 from British Airways. Built between 12.98 and 04.99. Seems like we will see them back in passenger transport.


This was confirmed to be fake yesterday (21 September).


Source?


You may refer to sources in either post # 34 or 37 of this thread.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:45 pm

FLLspotter747 wrote:
LebedevXD wrote:
Angelovo wrote:
According to aerotransport.org, Rossiya Airlines will acquire the 7 newest 744 from British Airways. Built between 12.98 and 04.99. Seems like we will see them back in passenger transport.


This was confirmed to be fake yesterday (21 September).


Source?


It's been reported as fake on several aviation news outlets...

https://simpleflying.com/british-airway ... 7-rossiya/
 
LHA320
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:30 pm

Cardude2 wrote:
audidudi wrote:
Angelovo wrote:
According to aerotransport.org, Rossiya Airlines will acquire the 7 newest 744 from British Airways. Built between 12.98 and 04.99. Seems like we will see them back in passenger transport.

Correct! These are G-BYGA, G-BYGB, G-BYGC, G-BYGD, G-BYGE, G-BYGF and G-BYGG...two of which are already engineless at GBA! BYGA, BYGB and BYGF are the three at GBA, the others are currently at CWL.

just a bet, there probably disposing of the Rolls Royce engines and replacing them with GE engines that all the other 747's have


The costs of doing this would exceed the value of all 747s BA has left combined. There are plenty 744s with GE engines available, including young and well maintained LH and CI examples. No need for going through that process.
AB6 - A319 - A320 - A321 - A333 - A388 - AT42 - 733 - 734 - 735 - 73H - 738 - 752 - 753 - 763 - 772 - DC10 - MD83
 
Qantas744er
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:58 pm

LHA320 wrote:
Cardude2 wrote:
audidudi wrote:
Correct! These are G-BYGA, G-BYGB, G-BYGC, G-BYGD, G-BYGE, G-BYGF and G-BYGG...two of which are already engineless at GBA! BYGA, BYGB and BYGF are the three at GBA, the others are currently at CWL.

just a bet, there probably disposing of the Rolls Royce engines and replacing them with GE engines that all the other 747's have


The costs of doing this would exceed the value of all 747s BA has left combined. There are plenty 744s with GE engines available, including young and well maintained LH and CI examples. No need for going through that process.


Good to see the old anet “my 2cent bet” is still around!

1. There is no existing Boeing Service Bulletin to accomplish the very significant engineering/technical changes involved. Send Boeing a massive check and they may evaluate it (most likely they would not even bother to reply to such an inquiry).

2. Virtually impossible for Rossiya to find even close to enough CF6-80CB1F with sufficient green time remaining and anywhere near a price that they could afford able to pay. Where do you think the engines are coming from to power all the B763 freighter conversions?
You live and you die, by the FMA
 
LHA320
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:12 pm

Qantas744er wrote:
LHA320 wrote:
Cardude2 wrote:
just a bet, there probably disposing of the Rolls Royce engines and replacing them with GE engines that all the other 747's have


The costs of doing this would exceed the value of all 747s BA has left combined. There are plenty 744s with GE engines available, including young and well maintained LH and CI examples. No need for going through that process.


Good to see the old anet “my 2cent bet” is still around!

1. There is no existing Boeing Service Bulletin to accomplish the very significant engineering/technical changes involved. Send Boeing a massive check and they may evaluate it (most likely they would not even bother to reply to such an inquiry).

2. Virtually impossible for Rossiya to find even close to enough CF6-80CB1F with sufficient green time remaining and anywhere near a price that they could afford able to pay. Where do you think the engines are coming from to power all the B763 freighter conversions?


Trust me, I know that! Thats why I said the costs would exceed the value of all 32 BA 744 together. Just replying on Cardude2's bet. It isn't impossible to swap the engines an Boeing would certainly do it for a crazy big check.
But let's keep it here, we share the same opinion. Another engine swap like the DC-8 had will not happen again, in most cases it is just cheaper to produce a new aircraft nowadays.
AB6 - A319 - A320 - A321 - A333 - A388 - AT42 - 733 - 734 - 735 - 73H - 738 - 752 - 753 - 763 - 772 - DC10 - MD83
 
Qantas744er
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:21 pm

LHA320 wrote:
Qantas744er wrote:
LHA320 wrote:

The costs of doing this would exceed the value of all 747s BA has left combined. There are plenty 744s with GE engines available, including young and well maintained LH and CI examples. No need for going through that process.


Good to see the old anet “my 2cent bet” is still around!

1. There is no existing Boeing Service Bulletin to accomplish the very significant engineering/technical changes involved. Send Boeing a massive check and they may evaluate it (most likely they would not even bother to reply to such an inquiry).

2. Virtually impossible for Rossiya to find even close to enough CF6-80CB1F with sufficient green time remaining and anywhere near a price that they could afford able to pay. Where do you think the engines are coming from to power all the B763 freighter conversions?


Trust me, I know that! Thats why I said the costs would exceed the value of all 32 BA 744 together. Just replying on Cardude2's bet. It isn't impossible to swap the engines an Boeing would certainly do it for a crazy big check.
But let's keep it here, we share the same opinion. Another engine swap like the DC-8 had will not happen again, in most cases it is just cheaper to produce a new aircraft nowadays.


And I agree 100% with what you wrote before me. I was also replying to Cardude2’s bet.
You live and you die, by the FMA
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:02 pm

Spacepope wrote:
Cardude2 wrote:
audidudi wrote:
Correct! These are G-BYGA, G-BYGB, G-BYGC, G-BYGD, G-BYGE, G-BYGF and G-BYGG...two of which are already engineless at GBA! BYGA, BYGB and BYGF are the three at GBA, the others are currently at CWL.

just a bet, there probably disposing of the Rolls Royce engines and replacing them with GE engines that all the other 747's have


re-engining 7 aircraft?

No, that's not in the realm of possibilities.

One thing that MIGHT be in the realm of the possible -- if Rossiya and its lessors get good value out of their (mainly) GE-engined 747-400 fleet by selling it, AND need to replace the capacity, then picking up BA's 747's and their Rolls Royce engines and spare parts, (cheaper than they just sold the GE-engined fleet) just might make sense.

One thing that is not obvious, though. Rossiya's 747 fleet is a former Transaero fleet. The whole reason Rossiya has those 747's, is that when Transaero collapsed, the lessors -- mainly Russian state-owned banks, AFAIR, had nowhere to place these frames. A deal was hatched, leasing these frames to Rossiya. Now the problem is, a deal like I describe above (sale of 747's with GE engines and purchase of 747's with Rolls Royce engines), basically an "inter-engine frame arbitrage", would need a recognition, from both Rossiya, and more importantly, the lessors, of the very low value these planes have. Russian state-owned banks have been criticized for being under-capitalized lately, and I wonder is impairment of assets is something they would accept, even if the underlying business case were sound, and they would make some cash in the process.
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
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Spacepope
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:59 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
Cardude2 wrote:
just a bet, there probably disposing of the Rolls Royce engines and replacing them with GE engines that all the other 747's have


re-engining 7 aircraft?

No, that's not in the realm of possibilities.

One thing that MIGHT be in the realm of the possible -- if Rossiya and its lessors get good value out of their (mainly) GE-engined 747-400 fleet by selling it, AND need to replace the capacity, then picking up BA's 747's and their Rolls Royce engines and spare parts, (cheaper than they just sold the GE-engined fleet) just might make sense.

One thing that is not obvious, though. Rossiya's 747 fleet is a former Transaero fleet. The whole reason Rossiya has those 747's, is that when Transaero collapsed, the lessors -- mainly Russian state-owned banks, AFAIR, had nowhere to place these frames. A deal was hatched, leasing these frames to Rossiya. Now the problem is, a deal like I describe above (sale of 747's with GE engines and purchase of 747's with Rolls Royce engines), basically an "inter-engine frame arbitrage", would need a recognition, from both Rossiya, and more importantly, the lessors, of the very low value these planes have. Russian state-owned banks have been criticized for being under-capitalized lately, and I wonder is impairment of assets is something they would accept, even if the underlying business case were sound, and they would make some cash in the process.


Ah, see I was reading that proposal above of taking the Ex-BA fleet, and removing the rolls and installing GE engines on those airframes. That would be just silly. And expensive.

This pandemic is almost an extinction-level event for the RB211-524 with just a couple on the 767 pax fleet and very few on 747 freighters. BA parking their 747 fleet and scrapping them is going to flood the market with spare engines and parts for years. These 7 when pressed into service would have at least done a bit to stem that tide.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
Cardude2
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 am

Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:57 pm

JannEejit wrote:
FLLspotter747 wrote:
LebedevXD wrote:

This was confirmed to be fake yesterday (21 September).


Source?


It's been reported as fake on several aviation news outlets...

https://simpleflying.com/british-airway ... 7-rossiya/


Well this ones my bad, sorry everyone.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:14 pm

Spacepope wrote:

This pandemic is almost an extinction-level event for the RB211-524 with just a couple on the 767 pax fleet and very few on 747 freighters. BA parking their 747 fleet and scrapping them is going to flood the market with spare engines and parts for years. These 7 when pressed into service would have at least done a bit to stem that tide.

Yup. 9/11 and GFC killed off L-1011 and 747Classics, leaving more "modern" versions of RB211-524 to fight on. This COVID-19 thing is a dagger over the remaining ones.
Basically, at this moment it all could be a grand bargain -- buying up all those BA 747s and their spares pool, flying some and scrapping the rest. Price could be very attractive. Especially if you can offload desirable CF6's before that.
Question is -- just who could need that capacity?
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
 
aristoenigma
Posts: 135
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:50 pm

aristoenigma wrote:
aristoenigma wrote:
Spacepope wrote:

And the pesky issue that there has been no complete P2F conversions in years. Bedek is swamped with 767 conversions anyway, I seriously doubt they have capacity for a one off like this.


Thanks gents. Despite the very low hours/cycles for the two former Japanese AF1s I suspect parting out may be their destinies.

Is it true the former Brunei Government 744 VIP (V8-ALI) is there at Pinal Airpark as well? Haven't heard if that is for sale.

I think the former Qatari grandfather Emir's 747SP VIP (VP-BAT) is there at Pinal Airpark as well and is being marketed for sale.

Tough against the double tide of Covid-19 and 747 sunsetting. I suppose lots of expensive 744 and 747SP toys are going to be melted down rather than redeploy. Maybe Las Vegas Sands can get a deal for the ages?


According to Planespotters.net https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... ent/rmlqoe
the Sultan of Brunei's old 744 VIP was stored a year in Germany and then stored at Pinal Airpark in 2018. Would that move to Arizona be for maintenance, sales prep or eventual part out?


A very helpful VCVSpotter sent me this photo of V8-ALI taken in 2018.

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/abpi ... -large.jpg

Engines long gone and I wonder if gold plated bathrooms taken elsewhere.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:22 pm

aristoenigma wrote:
aristoenigma wrote:
aristoenigma wrote:

Thanks gents. Despite the very low hours/cycles for the two former Japanese AF1s I suspect parting out may be their destinies.

Is it true the former Brunei Government 744 VIP (V8-ALI) is there at Pinal Airpark as well? Haven't heard if that is for sale.

I think the former Qatari grandfather Emir's 747SP VIP (VP-BAT) is there at Pinal Airpark as well and is being marketed for sale.

Tough against the double tide of Covid-19 and 747 sunsetting. I suppose lots of expensive 744 and 747SP toys are going to be melted down rather than redeploy. Maybe Las Vegas Sands can get a deal for the ages?


According to Planespotters.net https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... ent/rmlqoe
the Sultan of Brunei's old 744 VIP was stored a year in Germany and then stored at Pinal Airpark in 2018. Would that move to Arizona be for maintenance, sales prep or eventual part out?


A very helpful VCVSpotter sent me this photo of V8-ALI taken in 2018.

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/abpi ... -large.jpg

Engines long gone and I wonder if gold plated bathrooms taken elsewhere.


Wow, that's a picture that tells it own story...
 
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747classic
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:01 pm

747 passengers flights declining fast due covid 19, however the 747 Cargo flights are even increasing, accounting for over 90% of all 747 flights at the end of August.

Image

Copyright : Flightradar24

See for more details : https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/the- ... increased/
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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xms3200
Posts: 166
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:18 pm

I am sure "Avatar Airlines" could look to take over some of these 747's
 
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leleko747
Posts: 461
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:47 am

I've seen news, on a Brazilian aviation website, claiming that Lufthansa will keep their 747-400 fleet post-pandemic.
Any source confirming this????

Here's the news (website in Portuguese).
https://contatoradar.com.br/2020/09/luf ... oeing-747/
I wonder when people will understand:
Embraer 190 or simply E190, not ERJ-190. E-Jets are NOT ERJs!
Boeing 747-8, not Boeing 747-800. Same goes for 787.
Airbus A320, not Airbus 320.
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Ishrion
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:57 am

leleko747 wrote:
I've seen news, on a Brazilian aviation website, claiming that Lufthansa will keep their 747-400 fleet post-pandemic.
Any source confirming this????

Here's the news (website in Portuguese).
https://contatoradar.com.br/2020/09/luf ... oeing-747/


According to the CEO, the 744s will be retired by around mid-2025 which was the original plan pre-pandemic.

https://twitter.com/SpaethFlies/status/ ... 7599156224
 
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leleko747
Posts: 461
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:18 am

Ishrion wrote:

According to the CEO, the 744s will be retired by around mid-2025 which was the original plan pre-pandemic.

https://twitter.com/SpaethFlies/status/ ... 7599156224


Thank you! That's wonderful news!!! :bouncy:
I wonder when people will understand:
Embraer 190 or simply E190, not ERJ-190. E-Jets are NOT ERJs!
Boeing 747-8, not Boeing 747-800. Same goes for 787.
Airbus A320, not Airbus 320.
Airbii does not exist.
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 24993
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:39 pm

China Airlines has contracted with GA Telesis for remarketing its 4 passenger frames (33734, 33735, 33736 & 33737)
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
bennett123
Posts: 10424
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:58 pm

http://www.southwalesaviationgroup.co.u ... athan.html

G-CIVP has now been scrapped at DGX.
 
ACMIdriver
Posts: 12
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:01 pm

LAXintl wrote:
China Airlines has contracted with GA Telesis for remarketing its 4 passenger frames (33734, 33735, 33736 & 33737)


I doubt anyone will want the frames sadly. All those CF6's on the other hand will be well sought after to sustain the worlds freighter fleet.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3251
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Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:02 pm

LAXintl wrote:
China Airlines has contracted with GA Telesis for remarketing its 4 passenger frames (33734, 33735, 33736 & 33737)


Just clarifying, this basically means GA Telesis is helping China Airlines sell its four passenger 747-400s? So this is essentially confirming the end of the passenger 747-400 with China Airlines?

https://www.gatelesis.com/ga-telesis-aw ... -aircraft/
 
FlyingHonu001
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:33 pm

Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:13 pm

LH 744 D-ABVP on her way to retirement, from EHTW - MHV via FR and BGR

https://www.flightstats.com/v2/flight-d ... 1047828912
 
eastwood6
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:27 pm

Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:20 pm

bennett123 wrote:
http://www.southwalesaviationgroup.co.uk/p/airliners-st-athan.html

G-CIVP has now been scrapped at DGX.


NOOOO! The trans-Atlantic subsonic crossing record holder and my last 747 flight back in February, operating as BA112. Farewell to the Queen!
 
trex8
Posts: 5615
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:18 pm

Ishrion wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
China Airlines has contracted with GA Telesis for remarketing its 4 passenger frames (33734, 33735, 33736 & 33737)


Just clarifying, this basically means GA Telesis is helping China Airlines sell its four passenger 747-400s? So this is essentially confirming the end of the passenger 747-400 with China Airlines?

https://www.gatelesis.com/ga-telesis-aw ... -aircraft/

That is likely the case. They are gone for good. Sad, these were the last production pax 744s.
 
Cardude2
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 am

Re: Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020

Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:15 am

It’s official all Thai Airways 747’s are for sale https://youtu.be/jqK1xWOl59A
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