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krod031
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:03 pm

dabpit wrote:
Awesome announcement by G4! it is great to see BNA, MEM, and ORF added. No surprise on BNA, only slightly surprised on MEM and ORF. I really hope people take full advantage of these flights.


I noticed The ORF flight is really well timed for weekend trips for people that take/have Friday off. Thursday night departure, Sunday night return.
 
steeler83
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:05 pm

flyPIT wrote:
steeler83 wrote:
I keep going back and forth between the two images, and it looks like they have a shadow effect on that image. It looks like the roof overhang is casting a shadow on the glass(???). IT looks like there's still glass there albeit darker due to that effect. I agree that eliminating all the glass would be a bit of a bummer if that is the case.


I think you may be right. It also appears to me that the building is longer in the revised image. Compare where the building ends in relation to the elevated roadway support columns as well as the upper level sidewalk.. The sidewalk comparison is easy to see in this copy of the original image:
Image

Remember, the airlines recently requested a 40% increase in ticketing space. It would explain why the raised outdoor area is now gone. It would be nice if they add it back in but doubling the size of the elevated roadway will add quite a bit of cost to the project.


Come to think of it, you're right that the building in general looks longer, and I guess I forgot that the airlines wanted additional ticket space. I'm scratching my head at the need for 6 lanes of traffic for picking up/dropping off. To me, that just seems like overkill.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:35 pm

FLYi
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:13 pm

Some items borrowed from a couple other threads:

Of the top 50 unserved markets in the US, two of them are from PIT: SAN and SAT
https://www.anna.aero/2020/01/13/usas-top-50-unserved-routes-total-3-5-million-passengers/


Condor's PIT service will be operated by Omni. :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/288786/condor-outlines-leased-omni-air-767-operation-in-s20/
FLYi
 
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dabpit
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:12 pm

flyPIT wrote:
Some items borrowed from a couple other threads:

Of the top 50 unserved markets in the US, two of them are from PIT: SAN and SAT
https://www.anna.aero/2020/01/13/usas-top-50-unserved-routes-total-3-5-million-passengers/


Condor's PIT service will be operated by Omni. :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/288786/condor-outlines-leased-omni-air-767-operation-in-s20/



Who would be most likely to add SAT? G4 or NK?
For SAN I would think AS or WN (WN wouldn't happen for a few years) or even NK

Ehhh it sucks that the Condor flight will be operated by Omni, that seems like a downgrade in onboard service.
Carpe Diem
 
steeler83
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:43 pm

PIT-SAN is apparently not just on the top 50 list, but also in the top 10. Cut last year by Frontier. I wonder if NK would be a good candidate for this. I'm sure there isn't enough business travel to have AA or DL jump on this.

Bummer about Omni picking up Condor service...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
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william
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:41 pm

So when is the completion date for the remodel? I thought the construction started already.
 
masseybrown
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:47 pm

steeler83 wrote:
Bummer about Omni picking up Condor service...


It's better than nothing ;) and probably essential to Condor's financial rehab.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:25 pm

dabpit wrote:
Who would be most likely to add SAT? G4 or NK?
For SAN I would think AS or WN (WN wouldn't happen for a few years) or even NK

The only possible carriers I see doing SAT are G4, NK, or an F9 dart.

I don't think one can discuss PIT-SAT without considering the affect or impact of PIT-AUS.

G4 - They already serve PIT-AUS (barely), and only offer minimal service from SAT (LAS and SFB).
NK - They don't serve SAT at all and when they do get around to it I doubt PIT would be one of the first markets. Also NK has not had success in serving metro Pittsburgh - Texas. Tried and dropped have been DFW-PIT/LBE and IAH-PIT. Otoh PIT-Dallas/Houston already had good service. Not the case with either PIT-AUS/SAT so its a whole different dynamic.
F9 - 'Nuff said.

I think the level of our AUS service is so pathetic that service there would ramp up before SAT comes along, by either vastly improved G4 service, NK, or perhaps DL if and only if they actually make it a real focus city (and not one in name only).

For SAN I think either NK or WN can make a go of it. It's not a matter of market strength but one of network viability in relation to other markets. For example, on paper WN should be able to make it work if they had more planes coming but engaging in a Hawaiian inter-island blood bath more aligns with their network strategy. Or so it seems.


masseybrown wrote:
steeler83 wrote:
Bummer about Omni picking up Condor service...


It's better than nothing ;) and probably essential to Condor's financial rehab.

I'm not so sure about that. DE needed a bridge loan to get out from under Thomas Cook's mess but from an operating perspective they have been a profitable company. DE recently announced some major expansion including FRA-YEG and MUC-YHZ/SEA, as well as some short haul additions. This lease agreement is probably to support that growth.
FLYi
 
AaronPGH
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:22 pm

I'm guessing the swap to Omni loses the flat beds in biz, correct?
 
GSP psgr
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:45 pm

flyPIT wrote:
dabpit wrote:
Who would be most likely to add SAT? G4 or NK?
For SAN I would think AS or WN (WN wouldn't happen for a few years) or even NK

The only possible carriers I see doing SAT are G4, NK, or an F9 dart.

I don't think one can discuss PIT-SAT without considering the affect or impact of PIT-AUS.

G4 - They already serve PIT-AUS (barely), and only offer minimal service from SAT (LAS and SFB).
NK - They don't serve SAT at all and when they do get around to it I doubt PIT would be one of the first markets. Also NK has not had success in serving metro Pittsburgh - Texas. Tried and dropped have been DFW-PIT/LBE and IAH-PIT. Otoh PIT-Dallas/Houston already had good service. Not the case with either PIT-AUS/SAT so its a whole different dynamic.
F9 - 'Nuff said.

I think the level of our AUS service is so pathetic that service there would ramp up before SAT comes along, by either vastly improved G4 service, NK, or perhaps DL if and only if they actually make it a real focus city (and not one in name only).

For SAN I think either NK or WN can make a go of it. It's not a matter of market strength but one of network viability in relation to other markets. For example, on paper WN should be able to make it work if they had more planes coming but engaging in a Hawaiian inter-island blood bath more aligns with their network strategy. Or so it seems.


WN either couldn't or didn't (probably this, given the high LFs) want to make a gift wrapped PIT-LAX work for them. SAN is even longer and thinner. I have doubts about WN being seriously interested in PIT as a whole. They'd rather play marketshare games intra California. Their energy is devoted to CA, DEN, BNA, and STL right now-not PIT.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:20 am

GSP psgr wrote:
WN either couldn't or didn't (probably this, given the high LFs) want to make a gift wrapped PIT-LAX work for them. SAN is even longer and thinner. I have doubts about WN being seriously interested in PIT as a whole. They'd rather play marketshare games intra California. Their energy is devoted to CA, DEN, BNA, and STL right now-not PIT.

I agree completely. There are plenty of viable markets for WN at PIT. PIT-BDL/PHL/AUS/SAN/OAK and perhaps some outliers such as MKE/MCI. All but PHL and the minimal competition to AUS would be a monopoly. Not to mention increased frequencies to DAL/HOU/MSY. All would be helped with new through flight and connecting flow opportunities these flights could provide. WN could easily be the "clear market leader in Pittsburgh" that they mentioned years ago but that would need energy, desire (and work that comes with it), and investment to make it happen. Their network priorities are elsewhere.
FLYi
 
ncflyer
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:35 am

It seems like every mid sized airport East of the Mississippi is mentioned as a WN SAN possibility on airliners and it always seems like fools gold. The question isn’t “can WN make $$ on the route” it’s “can they make more money than alternatives”. WN probably makes more money flying two or three legs in the time it takes to tie up a plane PIT to west coast. The only oddball non hubbish, non Florida route I’m aware of in the Ohio valley Great Lakes region is CLE MKE very strong business ties between the two cities.
 
JamesRenard
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:21 am

How likely would it be for PIT-MEM to go year round with G4?
 
steeler83
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:56 pm

flyPIT wrote:
GSP psgr wrote:
WN either couldn't or didn't (probably this, given the high LFs) want to make a gift wrapped PIT-LAX work for them. SAN is even longer and thinner. I have doubts about WN being seriously interested in PIT as a whole. They'd rather play marketshare games intra California. Their energy is devoted to CA, DEN, BNA, and STL right now-not PIT.

I agree completely. There are plenty of viable markets for WN at PIT. PIT-BDL/PHL/AUS/SAN/OAK and perhaps some outliers such as MKE/MCI. All but PHL and the minimal competition to AUS would be a monopoly. Not to mention increased frequencies to DAL/HOU/MSY. All would be helped with new through flight and connecting flow opportunities these flights could provide. WN could easily be the "clear market leader in Pittsburgh" that they mentioned years ago but that would need energy, desire (and work that comes with it), and investment to make it happen. Their network priorities are elsewhere.


It seems to me they did have the energy and desire years ago, and then the ACAA took the wind out of their sails by hiking up the fees instead of trying to work with WN. I guess they still have a sour taste in their mouth. It's all moot now, but I can't help but think of what might have been.

After WN acquired FL, they took on a more hub-and-spoke model. They became very strong in BWI and likely saw their PHL build-up as redundant. So it seems they moved that whole operation down to BWI while maintaining a token presence at best in PHL. As over-served as it was (3x daily would have been sufficient), they did stimulate the PIT-PHL market, but I guess they saw it more effective to have their passengers schlep down to BWI to catch a flight to PIT. While I would love to see PIT-BDL/PHL etc, I'm not sure I see that in the cards.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:25 pm

flyPIT wrote:
dabpit wrote:
Who would be most likely to add SAT? G4 or NK?
For SAN I would think AS or WN (WN wouldn't happen for a few years) or even NK

The only possible carriers I see doing SAT are G4, NK, or an F9 dart.

I don't think one can discuss PIT-SAT without considering the affect or impact of PIT-AUS.

G4 - They already serve PIT-AUS (barely), and only offer minimal service from SAT (LAS and SFB).
NK - They don't serve SAT at all and when they do get around to it I doubt PIT would be one of the first markets. Also NK has not had success in serving metro Pittsburgh - Texas. Tried and dropped have been DFW-PIT/LBE and IAH-PIT. Otoh PIT-Dallas/Houston already had good service. Not the case with either PIT-AUS/SAT so its a whole different dynamic.
F9 - 'Nuff said.

I think the level of our AUS service is so pathetic that service there would ramp up before SAT comes along, by either vastly improved G4 service, NK, or perhaps DL if and only if they actually make it a real focus city (and not one in name only).


F9 tried CMH-SAT and it lasted only a few months.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
PITexpress
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:56 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
F9 tried CMH-SAT and it lasted only a few months.


So clearly it had 90% LF's :lol:

I hate to ask, but what's so bad about Onmi?
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:01 pm

The ACAA paid a consultant (how much???) to come up with a "whitepaper" outlining the benefits of this Additive Manufacturing campus named "Neighborhood 91" which is to be on the airport's most prime undeveloped land. Here is the report:

https://neighborhood91.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Neighborhood-91-Economic-Impact-Whitepaper.pdf

Having read the report I can't help but think it is nothing but a bunch of repetitive bullet points tied in with some wishful thinking written by a college intern. However I did chuckle at the following sentence on page 5: "Neighborhood 91 will act as a catalyst for AM industrialization and innovation with the creation of a cost-efficient ecosystem and the collection of smart people."

My juvenile side also chuckled at the terms "Cum Tenants" and "Cum CO2e" on page 14.


On a serious note, I must ask again, "Is this the best use of this land?" The land immediate adjacent to an airport's terminal complex should support passenger activities. Since the terminal opened in 1992 the only development on that entire side of the airport devoted to passenger service is the Hyatt hotel and a gas station. All the other hotels and service industries are STILL centered in Moon Twp over by the old terminal site as well as Robinson Town Center miles away. If not to be used for direct aviation related development then this land is well suited for additional hotels, etc. Along the lines the original WTC idea which has proven successful at airports across the globe. See Delhi's Aerocity. I really do wish success for this "Neighborhood 91" but for the life of me I don't know why it needs to be on that location as opposed to the southwest side of airport property across I-376. And if the campus really does take off then it will be hemmed in by the highway, terminal, and a runway.


On a related note, I can't help but note how many companies are based in Pittsburgh - large and small - that are major aerospace suppliers.
PPG - windows, coatings, paint, etc
Arconic - structural materials and components https://www.arconic.com/aerospace/
Allegheny Technologies (ATI) - specialty metals and engine components
Ansys - Artificial intelligence applications for aerospace
Astrobotic - robotic applications with large NASA contracts.

"According to Bloomberg Research, five Pittsburgh-based companies make the list of Boeing’s 90 largest suppliers.

Arconic ranks 26th, with 8.27 percent of its quarterly revenue linked to Boeing and an estimated $294.4 million quarterly relationship value. PPG Industries Inc. ranks 28th, with 3.66 percent of its quarterly revenue linked to Boeing and an estimated $139.9 million quarterly relationship value. Allegheny Technologies Inc. ranks 36th, with 5.64 percent of its quarterly revenue linked to Boeing and an estimated $54.04 million quarterly relationship value.

Further down the list, II-VI relies on Boeing for 3.57 percent of its quarterly revenue and has an estimated $12.9 million quarterly relationship value with Boeing. Ansys Inc. relies on Boeing for 0.38 percent of its quarterly revenue and has an estimated $1.42 million quarterly relationship value with Boeing.
"
https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/news/2019/12/17/how-will-boeings-halted-production-impact-its.html
That's just numbers for Boeing.


There are many more. I can't help but realize the larger of these companies are headquartered in Pittsburgh but don't manufacture much of anything in Pittsburgh any more. Same old story... high regulation, taxes, poor infrastructure in Pennsylvania drive these industries elsewhere. Here is a perfect example:
"A Pittsburgh-based company has bought 124 acres next to its plant in Monroe with plans for a 210,000-square-foot facility that would supply metals for the aerospace industry.

TDY Industries, a unit of Allegheny Technologies Inc. (NYSE: ATI), is going through the state permitting processes to build near Allegheny’s current ATI Specialty Materials plant. The site is east of the intersection of Airport and Goldmine roads in Monroe, 22 miles from uptown Charlotte.
"
https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2019/07/03/metals-processor-planning-large-new-facility-in.html



The ACAA likes to tout collaboration with local universities such as their partnership with CMU, and having the University of Pittsburgh partner with "Neighborhood 91".

But Pittsburgh's own Pittsburgh Institute of Aeronautics (PIA) ranked #1 among trade schools in the US according to Forbes. Pittsburgh has 3 of the top 25 trade schools actually.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/cartercoudriet/2018/08/15/the-top-25-two-year-trade-schools-colleges-that-can-solve-the-skills-gap/#6cb94aa53478
PIA has outgrown their small space at AGC and has expanded outside the region to HGR, YNG, and MYR. Our loss.


So putting this all together, Pittsburgh has:
- major aerospace suppliers headquartered here
- one of the nation's best regarded aviation technical schools
- a major maintenance base for a major airline
- a major maintenance base for a large regional airline
- two military units, both of which fly and maintain heavy jets.

Wouldn't it make more sense to tie all that together and make a concerted effort to develop an aerospace cluster on airport land? Much like GSO has done? It is an airport after all. GSO created something huge from nothing. Pittsburgh has the benefit of leading educational institutions and companies already based here. Too bad PIA was never courted for an expanded campus at PIT and too bad the powers that be never put together a plan to incubate such an idea with lower business regulations, incentives, etc that are needed for what I'd call "Neighborhood 92"

Rant over.
FLYi
 
Gsasala
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:47 am

PITexpress wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
F9 tried CMH-SAT and it lasted only a few months.


So clearly it had 90% LF's :lol:

I hate to ask, but what's so bad about Onmi?

There's really nothing that I know of that is bad about Omni, it's just that their livery looks ugly
 
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ConcourseZ
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:48 pm

As for Charlotte/North Carolina and their absence of those nasty regulations, ask the people there about how bad the drinking water is. It's well-documented. The regulation excuse is a tired, Republican talking point meant to gain support amongst the public so business owners can make more money for themselves and to hell with everyone else. With this thinking, Pittsburgh should go back to the glory days when black smoke filled the skies. Who needs regulations. That will certainly attract a lot of people. You might recall, ATI also recently spent $1.2 billion to expand its Breckenridge plant.

Pittsburgh's going in the right direction. Enjoy the ride.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:33 pm

ConcourseZ wrote:
As for Charlotte/North Carolina and their absence of those nasty regulations, ask the people there about how bad the drinking water is. It's well-documented.

I can only assume this is directed at my post; the quote function is not difficult to use btw.

There is a happy medium between reasonable regulation and overly burdensome job killing bureaucracy. As for drinking water quality, ours is nothing to brag about:
https://www.ehn.org/there-are-concerning-carcinogens-in-western-pennsylvania-water-2641070249.html

Our air quality is some of the worst in the nation too, even with de-industrialization and all the regulation.


ConcourseZ wrote:
The regulation excuse is a tired, Republican talking point meant to gain support amongst the public so business owners can make more money for themselves and to hell with everyone else. With this thinking, Pittsburgh should go back to the glory days when black smoke filled the skies. Who needs regulations. That will certainly attract a lot of people. You might recall, ATI also recently spent $1.2 billion to expand its Breckenridge plant.

Pittsburgh's going in the right direction. Enjoy the ride.

And that's a typical liberal response narrative. The empirical data shows that the Pittsburgh region has lost population for decades and is once again a laggard with job creation. Dead last in job creation over the past few months, losing jobs actually, while the rest of the country continues to boom.

Business owners wanting to make more money? How horrible!!! Psssst... it's these people that hire more employees and create jobs... so their business can expand even more and make even more money (and pay more taxes) so the cycle can continue.
FLYi
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:21 pm

"Travelers or others who rent cars at Pittsburgh International Airport are facing a 9% increase in a fee that will be used to help pay for part of a planned $1.1 billion terminal modernization.

Allegheny County Airport Authority board members voted unanimously Friday to increase the customer facility charge at Pittsburgh International by 50 cents from $5.50 to $6.

The fee hike will take effect Feb. 1. The customer facility charge is tacked on to the cost of the car rental itself. It is levied daily for up to seven days.

Christina Cassotis, CEO of the airport authority that oversees Pittsburgh International, said revenue generated from the $6 charge will be used to pay for new car rental facilities in the 3,000-space parking garage being built as part of the $1.1 billion airport modernization.
"
https://www.post-gazette.com/business/development/2020/01/17/Pittsburgh-International-Airport-car-rental-modernization-customer-facility-charge/stories/202001170157

Article also states total 2019 passengers were up 1.2%. At the end of Nov that number stood at 0.9%.
FLYi
 
bravoindia
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:12 am

flyPIT wrote:
ConcourseZ wrote:
As for Charlotte/North Carolina and their absence of those nasty regulations, ask the people there about how bad the drinking water is. It's well-documented.

I can only assume this is directed at my post; the quote function is not difficult to use btw.

There is a happy medium between reasonable regulation and overly burdensome job killing bureaucracy. As for drinking water quality, ours is nothing to brag about:
https://www.ehn.org/there-are-concerning-carcinogens-in-western-pennsylvania-water-2641070249.html

Our air quality is some of the worst in the nation too, even with de-industrialization and all the regulation.


ConcourseZ wrote:
The regulation excuse is a tired, Republican talking point meant to gain support amongst the public so business owners can make more money for themselves and to hell with everyone else. With this thinking, Pittsburgh should go back to the glory days when black smoke filled the skies. Who needs regulations. That will certainly attract a lot of people. You might recall, ATI also recently spent $1.2 billion to expand its Breckenridge plant.

Pittsburgh's going in the right direction. Enjoy the ride.

And that's a typical liberal response narrative. The empirical data shows that the Pittsburgh region has lost population for decades and is once again a laggard with job creation. Dead last in job creation over the past few months, losing jobs actually, while the rest of the country continues to boom.

Business owners wanting to make more money? How horrible!!! Psssst... it's these people that hire more employees and create jobs... so their business can expand even more and make even more money (and pay more taxes) so the cycle can continue.


Amen.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:26 pm

Regarding QR Cargo, as suspected EFL has been using existing capacity at LCK.

"A spokesperson for the forwarder said that market conditions had changed over recent months and that it would use alternative hubs that it used prior to adding the charter service.

The forwarder has access to capacity on flights heading to Rickenbacker airport which were started before the Pittsburgh operation.
"
https://www.aircargonews.net/airlines/freighter-operator/qatar-cargo-suspends-pittsburgh-flights-for-off-season/


One thing is still not clear to me. If EFL had to truck their goods from PIT to LCK to break down their pallets - only to then truck the goods onward from there - (according to another poster) then why didn't they just sort their freight here at PIT? Lack of warehouse space? Furthermore, surely EFL knew about this inefficient process beforehand so why did they even start to use PIT?

I just don't see EFL returning to PIT unless that changes and therefore I say the same about QR Cargo. I hope I'm proven wrong.
FLYi
 
Gsasala
Posts: 139
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:20 pm

flyPIT wrote:
Regarding QR Cargo, as suspected EFL has been using existing capacity at LCK.

"A spokesperson for the forwarder said that market conditions had changed over recent months and that it would use alternative hubs that it used prior to adding the charter service.

The forwarder has access to capacity on flights heading to Rickenbacker airport which were started before the Pittsburgh operation.
"
https://www.aircargonews.net/airlines/freighter-operator/qatar-cargo-suspends-pittsburgh-flights-for-off-season/


One thing is still not clear to me. If EFL had to truck their goods from PIT to LCK to break down their pallets - only to then truck the goods onward from there - (according to another poster) then why didn't they just sort their freight here at PIT? Lack of warehouse space? Furthermore, surely EFL knew about this inefficient process beforehand so why did they even start to use PIT?

I just don't see EFL returning to PIT unless that changes and therefore I say the same about QR Cargo. I hope I'm proven wrong.

There's only two reasons I can think why they would fly into Pittsburgh and ship them by truck to Columbus, the first one is that QR doesn't fly into LCK I can't remember but I think EFL had a contract with QR, but even if they don't don't there's a chance that because of timing it's faster for them to fly it to Pittsburgh then truck it to Columbus. My second reason would be that Pittsburgh has less competition than LCK if QR would fly into LCK they would have to complete with EK, CV, and EY. But that's just my opinion, I really hope that they stay here
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:39 pm

So what's the over-under if AA adds a couple p2p routes from PIT such as PIT-BOS/LAX? For those that have not been paying attention AA has been announcing more p2p flying as well as a renewed interest in BOS, presumably as a shot at DL for beefing up MIA. Before anyone says PIT-BOS is a bloodbath, so is BOS-RDU but that did not stop AA from announcing the route 5x daily. Logic often goes out the window in such pissing matches and the consumer benefits.

Other possibilities are the former "at risk" routes, PIT-BDL/RDU/STL with 50-70 seaters.

BDL seemed to do well at 3x daily. I can see them restarting it at 2x daily.
RDU used to be 3x daily and is now 1x daily on AA and DL each. I could see AA adding one more frequency.
STL is back to 1x daily as part of the MAX cuts after a short lived second frequency was added by WN. I could see AA adding 1-2 flights.

Like we've seen so many times before, many of these are not an issue of the markets themselves but a matter of network priority for the carriers. Those priorities can change overnight as we've also seen.




Gsasala wrote:
There's only two reasons I can think why they would fly into Pittsburgh and ship them by truck to Columbus, the first one is that QR doesn't fly into LCK I can't remember but I think EFL had a contract with QR, but even if they don't don't there's a chance that because of timing it's faster for them to fly it to Pittsburgh then truck it to Columbus. My second reason would be that Pittsburgh has less competition than LCK if QR would fly into LCK they would have to complete with EK, CV, and EY. But that's just my opinion, I really hope that they stay here

To clarify I was questioning why EFL started using PIT, not why QR Cargo itself started using PIT. I believe EFL has contracts with EK and perhaps a couple others that were already established at LCK.
FLYi
 
Runway28L
Posts: 2101
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:20 pm

July 2019 DoT data for BA. Yet another solid month it looks like:

BA LHR-PIT 93.0%
BA PIT-LHR 76.6%

Tomorrow's flight has been swapped to a B789.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/BA171
 
Delta28L
Posts: 347
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:00 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:12 pm

Qatar officially canceled the PIT route and opened Osaka Japan route
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1925
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:53 pm

From last year's thread:
This also got my attention:
"In addition, board members approved a ground lease with Cincinnati-based Al. Neyer for 8.2 acres of land at International and Halverson drives for the construction of a 100,000-square-foot office and industrial flex building.

Mark Vella, Al. Neyer senior vice president, business development, said the firm has a letter of intent for the space with a local company looking to expand. He declined to name it.

Al. Neyer hopes to start construction of the building in the spring and have it completed at the end of next year. It will be the firm’s sixth project on airport property."

International and Halverson is right at the "PIT International Logistics Centre" site. I wonder if they have given up on that or if this building will be next to it.

Some more details about this out today:
A biotech startup specializing in rare skin diseases plans to build a manufacturing center in the Pittsburgh International Airport corridor.

Krystal Biotech Inc. is scheduled to break ground Friday on the 100,000-square-foot center along with CEO Krish Krishnan, Allegheny County Executive Rich Fitzgerald and Allegheny Regional Alliance President Mark Anthony Thomas. The new center, which will be located on International Drive in Moon, will make gene therapy medicines while creating about 70 jobs.

https://www.post-gazette.com/business/healthcare-business/2020/01/23/Krystal-Biotech-company-facility-rare-skin-diseases-treatment-pittsburgh/stories/202001220121
Still not sure which corner of the Int'l Drive and Halverson intersection this will be on and if it infringes on the "PIT International Logistics Centre" site.




flyPIT wrote:
Wouldn't it make more sense to tie all that together and make a concerted effort to develop an aerospace cluster on airport land? Much like GSO has done? It is an airport after all. GSO created something huge from nothing. Pittsburgh has the benefit of leading educational institutions and companies already based here.

For those that have an interest in this I just came across an excellent in-depth article illustrating exactly what I talking about at GSO:
https://airportimprovement.com/article/piedmont-triad-int-l-grows-brings-region-along-ride

Just one of many key takeaways is that of the affect of aviation technical schools, and as previously stated Pittsburgh has one of the best :
"One of the biggest attractions to the Piedmont Triad region for aerospace companies is the talent-feeding system provided by Guilford Technical Community College (GTCC)."
FLYi
 
PITexpress
Posts: 179
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:49 pm

Any thoughts on the affects of the acquisition of Condor by PGL (LOT parent company) on PIT service?

https://condor-newsroom.condor.com/en/d ... or-condor/
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1925
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:27 pm

Some slight reductions to NK's PIT schedule I noticed with this most recent schedule extension. PIT-MCO drops from 15 weekly to 14 weekly. The shoulder season is 10x weekly (I thought it was increased to 2x daily at one point). PIT-LAX goes from 1 A319 and 1 A320 to 2x A319s. I haven't checked the other routes yet.

Air Canada has made some changes at some of our peer cities by reducing 1 frequency but upgauging aircraft with a business product. IND and STL will only get flights 2x daily (a 33% reduction in frequency) while CLE gets 3x daily flights (25% reduction in frequency) while overall seats remain about the same at IND and STL with a slight increase at CLE.

Personally I'd prefer to have PIT's 4x daily service to YYZ plus 1x daily to YUL. Is business class really needed on a 50 minute flight to YYZ in exchange for losing a frequency?


The most recent TMP rendering I have seen. This one gives a good overview of the ground transportation facility, garage, and associated roadways. I hope they do something with the roofs of those two facilities such as landscaping or solar panels. It's pretty obvious from the photo they will avoid building on top of the people mover system as much as possible while it's still in use.
Image




Runway28L wrote:
July 2019 DoT data for BA. Yet another solid month it looks like:

BA LHR-PIT 93.0%
BA PIT-LHR 76.6%

Tomorrow's flight has been swapped to a B789.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/BA171

With these numbers I'm beginning to wonder why BA is adding a 6th weekly flight at MSY and keeping PIT at 4x weekly? Perhaps IAG is planning on something such as 3-4x weekly to DUB with EI in 2021?
FLYi
 
Gsasala
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:04 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:55 pm

flyPIT wrote:
Some slight reductions to NK's PIT schedule I noticed with this most recent schedule extension. PIT-MCO drops from 15 weekly to 14 weekly. The shoulder season is 10x weekly (I thought it was increased to 2x daily at one point). PIT-LAX goes from 1 A319 and 1 A320 to 2x A319s. I haven't checked the other routes yet.

Air Canada has made some changes at some of our peer cities by reducing 1 frequency but upgauging aircraft with a business product. IND and STL will only get flights 2x daily (a 33% reduction in frequency) while CLE gets 3x daily flights (25% reduction in frequency) while overall seats remain about the same at IND and STL with a slight increase at CLE.

Personally I'd prefer to have PIT's 4x daily service to YYZ plus 1x daily to YUL. Is business class really needed on a 50 minute flight to YYZ in exchange for losing a frequency?


The most recent TMP rendering I have seen. This one gives a good overview of the ground transportation facility, garage, and associated roadways. I hope they do something with the roofs of those two facilities such as landscaping or solar panels. It's pretty obvious from the photo they will avoid building on top of the people mover system as much as possible while it's still in use.
Image




Runway28L wrote:
July 2019 DoT data for BA. Yet another solid month it looks like:

BA LHR-PIT 93.0%
BA PIT-LHR 76.6%

Tomorrow's flight has been swapped to a B789.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/BA171

With these numbers I'm beginning to wonder why BA is adding a 6th weekly flight at MSY and keeping PIT at 4x weekly? Perhaps IAG is planning on something such as 3-4x weekly to DUB with EI in 2021?

I hope to see more equipment upgrades possibly a 777
 
Runway28L
Posts: 2101
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:06 pm

Major news from Condor, as they are being purchased by PGL Group (who owns LOT Polish Airlines).
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-thom ... SKBN1ZN0OA

There’s already a 30 aircraft order being planned in which 20 will go to Condor. Seems likely that it’ll be a widebody purchase to replace the 15 767s Condor has.

Anyway, good for DE as their long-term future is going to be secured.
 
Runway28L
Posts: 2101
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:13 pm

flyPIT wrote:
Some slight reductions to NK's PIT schedule I noticed with this most recent schedule extension. PIT-MCO drops from 15 weekly to 14 weekly. The shoulder season is 10x weekly (I thought it was increased to 2x daily at one point). PIT-LAX goes from 1 A319 and 1 A320 to 2x A319s. I haven't checked the other routes yet.

MYR is getting bumped up from 1x daily to 11x weekly effective 6/12/20.

NK2987 320 PIT 0835 MYR 1005 (Mon/Wed/Fri/Sat-only)
NK2859 319 PIT 1922 MYR 2049 (1x daily)

Interestingly, this second flight is going to directly alternate with the second daily LBE-MYR flight which is Tue/Thu/Sun-only.
 
PITfall
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:45 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:08 pm

Gsasala wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
Some slight reductions to NK's PIT schedule I noticed with this most recent schedule extension. PIT-MCO drops from 15 weekly to 14 weekly. The shoulder season is 10x weekly (I thought it was increased to 2x daily at one point). PIT-LAX goes from 1 A319 and 1 A320 to 2x A319s. I haven't checked the other routes yet.

Air Canada has made some changes at some of our peer cities by reducing 1 frequency but upgauging aircraft with a business product. IND and STL will only get flights 2x daily (a 33% reduction in frequency) while CLE gets 3x daily flights (25% reduction in frequency) while overall seats remain about the same at IND and STL with a slight increase at CLE.

Personally I'd prefer to have PIT's 4x daily service to YYZ plus 1x daily to YUL. Is business class really needed on a 50 minute flight to YYZ in exchange for losing a frequency?


The most recent TMP rendering I have seen. This one gives a good overview of the ground transportation facility, garage, and associated roadways. I hope they do something with the roofs of those two facilities such as landscaping or solar panels. It's pretty obvious from the photo they will avoid building on top of the people mover system as much as possible while it's still in use.
Image




Runway28L wrote:
July 2019 DoT data for BA. Yet another solid month it looks like:

BA LHR-PIT 93.0%
BA PIT-LHR 76.6%

Tomorrow's flight has been swapped to a B789.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/BA171

With these numbers I'm beginning to wonder why BA is adding a 6th weekly flight at MSY and keeping PIT at 4x weekly? Perhaps IAG is planning on something such as 3-4x weekly to DUB with EI in 2021?

I hope to see more equipment upgrades possibly a 777


I would love to see some bigger planes come through in the summer! Hopefully the second summer is even more successful. I wonder how they have been performing in the winter. Also, more generally, I wonder how business class has been selling.

For the garage, I would love to see them do something on the roof as well. Even something like a homage to the city from an artwork perspective that passengers would see flying in.
 
strfyr51
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:24 pm

avtcle wrote:
For PITs sake the airport should focus on expanding its current transatlantic offerings before pursuing others. Get LHR to daily and expand service to FRA before going after other airlines. A route to DUB would no doubt pull significant traffic from the LHR route — hurting both. Connections to 2 European cities from a midsize city is impressive. Pitting 2 European legacy carriers against each other would probably hurt more than it would help, both in the idea of Aer Lingus or Lufthansa. The Condor/British Airways combination is perfect because Condor attracts mostly leisure, while British Airways will attract the business travelers. It’s such a perfect combination that would certainly be ruined should the airport not work to establish and expand those routes before going after others.

for some reason? Cities want international service More than they want domestic service. Heinz foods PPG and US Steel are all in Pittsburgh are they not? then they might poll them to see where they would like service and what US cities are important to them and try and build on that. PIT is a good eating town and that I know for sure, But it's a blue collar town as well. PIT has a lot of attributes and they need to focus on the /air service that boosts their Business community.l
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1925
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:44 pm

Runway28L wrote:
MYR is getting bumped up from 1x daily to 11x weekly effective 6/12/20.

NK2987 320 PIT 0835 MYR 1005 (Mon/Wed/Fri/Sat-only)
NK2859 319 PIT 1922 MYR 2049 (1x daily)

Interestingly, this second flight is going to directly alternate with the second daily LBE-MYR flight which is Tue/Thu/Sun-only.

3x daily service from metro Pittsburgh to MYR on Spirit is pretty impressive.


strfyr51 wrote:
for some reason? Cities want international service More than they want domestic service. Heinz foods PPG and US Steel are all in Pittsburgh are they not? then they might poll them to see where they would like service and what US cities are important to them and try and build on that. PIT is a good eating town and that I know for sure, But it's a blue collar town as well. PIT has a lot of attributes and they need to focus on the /air service that boosts their Business community.l

What makes you think the ACAA hasn't done this? In fact when Ms. Cassotis arrived one of the first things she did is meet with corporations large and small as well as the universities and other institutions.
FLYi
 
Gsasala
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:04 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:30 am

PITfall wrote:
Gsasala wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
Some slight reductions to NK's PIT schedule I noticed with this most recent schedule extension. PIT-MCO drops from 15 weekly to 14 weekly. The shoulder season is 10x weekly (I thought it was increased to 2x daily at one point). PIT-LAX goes from 1 A319 and 1 A320 to 2x A319s. I haven't checked the other routes yet.

Air Canada has made some changes at some of our peer cities by reducing 1 frequency but upgauging aircraft with a business product. IND and STL will only get flights 2x daily (a 33% reduction in frequency) while CLE gets 3x daily flights (25% reduction in frequency) while overall seats remain about the same at IND and STL with a slight increase at CLE.

Personally I'd prefer to have PIT's 4x daily service to YYZ plus 1x daily to YUL. Is business class really needed on a 50 minute flight to YYZ in exchange for losing a frequency?


The most recent TMP rendering I have seen. This one gives a good overview of the ground transportation facility, garage, and associated roadways. I hope they do something with the roofs of those two facilities such as landscaping or solar panels. It's pretty obvious from the photo they will avoid building on top of the people mover system as much as possible while it's still in use.
Image





With these numbers I'm beginning to wonder why BA is adding a 6th weekly flight at MSY and keeping PIT at 4x weekly? Perhaps IAG is planning on something such as 3-4x weekly to DUB with EI in 2021?

I hope to see more equipment upgrades possibly a 777


I would love to see some bigger planes come through in the summer! Hopefully the second summer is even more successful. I wonder how they have been performing in the winter. Also, more generally, I wonder how business class has been selling.

For the garage, I would love to see them do something on the roof as well. Even something like a homage to the city from an artwork perspective that passengers would see flying in.

I would assume that because they sent us an upgraded plane in the dead of winter I would assume that it's doing good
 
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flyPIT
Posts: 1925
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:12 pm

Interesting factoid... of WN's largest hubs MCO has the least amount of connecting passengers. But of the passengers that do connect there, PIT-MCO-SJU is the largest connecting market.

"With 9% connecting, Orlando had by far the lowest. This is no surprise given both its destination focus and also its geographic position that clearly limits potential connections with reasonable circuity – at least within the US mainland. Indeed, around 250,000 connected over Orlando to/from San Juan, Puerto Rico, and about 100,000 to/from Jamaica. Seven of its top-ten markets over Orlando involved San Juan, led by Pittsburgh – San Juan. "
https://www.anna.aero/2020/01/27/southwest-airlines-top-airports-by-the-numbers/
FLYi
 
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pitbosflyer
Posts: 380
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:28 pm

AaronPGH wrote:
I'm guessing the swap to Omni loses the flat beds in biz, correct?


Omni's interiors don't look horrible, but their business cabins seem to be old school recliner seats. Funny seeing modern mood lighting with those ancient overhead bins.

Image

Image
A:320/21, 333, 343, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 763, 772 || MD80, MD90 || E:145, 170, 175, 190, 195 || CR200, 700, 900
 
steeler83
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:43 pm

Runway28L wrote:
Major news from Condor, as they are being purchased by PGL Group (who owns LOT Polish Airlines).
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-thom ... SKBN1ZN0OA

There’s already a 30 aircraft order being planned in which 20 will go to Condor. Seems likely that it’ll be a widebody purchase to replace the 15 767s Condor has.

Anyway, good for DE as their long-term future is going to be secured.

I guess Condor will become a subsidiary of LOT Polish Airlines?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
USPIT10L
Posts: 2061
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:56 pm

I guess Condor will become a subsidiary of LOT Polish Airlines?[/quote]

It actually becomes a subsidiary of LOT's parent company, PGL, or Polish Aviation Company.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
steeler83
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:39 pm

^^ Right, that's what I meant. Like how BA and EI are subsidiaries of IAG? Per the remark about 20 new aircraft going to Condor, would this mean we could see a Condor 787, providing they continue to serve FRA-PIT?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
USPIT10L
Posts: 2061
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:24 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:44 pm

No, mostly for replacement at LOT.....Omni is flying our route for DE this year......no one has mentioned what this will do for LOT or DE specifically, as ashocking as this announcement was......
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
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flyPIT
Posts: 1925
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:14 pm

Actually a complete replacement for Condor's 767s. At least 20 Widebodies to DE replacing their 16 767s and up to 10 widebodies for LOT.

"The long-haul aircraft of Condor will require replacement in the next two to three years. We have enormous experience in the procurement of new aircraft. We are talking to the OEMs. We are running strategic analyses concerning the best fleet mix cover the entire PGL group," he said.

PGL intends to replace all sixteen B767-300(ER)s used by Condor.

"But it will be more than just 16 orders for replacement, we reckon at least 20. In the next three years, we will also need around ten additional widebody aircraft for LOT, so it will be 30 aircraft in total," Milczarski added
"
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/85617-lot-polish-airlines-owner-buys-condor
FLYi
 
USPIT10L
Posts: 2061
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:24 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:04 pm

flyPIT wrote:
Actually a complete replacement for Condor's 767s. At least 20 Widebodies to DE replacing their 16 767s and up to 10 widebodies for LOT.

"The long-haul aircraft of Condor will require replacement in the next two to three years. We have enormous experience in the procurement of new aircraft. We are talking to the OEMs. We are running strategic analyses concerning the best fleet mix cover the entire PGL group," he said.

PGL intends to replace all sixteen B767-300(ER)s used by Condor.

"But it will be more than just 16 orders for replacement, we reckon at least 20. In the next three years, we will also need around ten additional widebody aircraft for LOT, so it will be 30 aircraft in total," Milczarski added
"
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/85617-lot-polish-airlines-owner-buys-condor


Thanks.....there wasn't much going on in the Condor/LOT acquisition thread.....
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:04 pm

The UPS MD-11 did some pattern work on a couple occasions today. I assume some sort of maintenance test flights:

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n259up#23b31604

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n259up#23b2eb7c
FLYi
 
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flyPIT
Posts: 1925
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:05 pm

LBE is seeking zoning changes along Rt. 981 (the road that runs along the airport). They are seeking to change residential zones to commercial immediately south and southwest of the airport.

Image

https://triblive.com/local/westmoreland/unity-eyes-zoning-changes-for-windmills-barns-route-981-development/
FLYi
 
Runway28L
Posts: 2101
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:09 pm

An AA B763 flying MCO-PHL just diverted to PIT moments ago due to heavy fog in Philadelphia.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/AA1881
 
Runway28L
Posts: 2101
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:00 pm

December CAA data for BA:
https://www.caa.co.uk/uploadedFiles/CAA ... alysis.pdf

74.2% load factor based off my estimation. From what I've seen so far, the CAA data hasn't exactly lined up with what the DoT usually puts out months later, so take this with a grain of salt. But given that estimate, that's a better load factor than I was expecting for LHR in the dead of the winter transatlantic season.
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