Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9
  • 11
 
Flaps
Posts: 1659
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2000 1:11 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:04 pm

USPIT10L wrote:
IINM, BN just did PITDFW and PITMCI.


I do have a very vague memory of BN and PIT-MEM. It may have only been a route application that was never actually flown or a short lived stop on PIT-DFW. I believe that BN also routed PIT-MCI-DFW at one point. They never had more than a minuscule presence at PIT and I'm almost certain that PIT-DFW was not initially served nonstop. BN's deregulation mass route filing included a lot of tag-ons to existing routes. This allowed them to quickly expand into new markets using the existing fleet but a lot of those adds ended up with single daily service at not so attractive times. This was but one of the many components that ultimately led to their demise.
 
USPIT10L
Posts: 2061
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:24 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:10 pm

I had a coworker at DGS that worked for Braniff here. That overexpansion absolutely was a nail in their coffin. Of course, at the time, AA had been flying PITDFW or DAL since the late '50s. BN had a really hard time taking on AA on established routes like that. I think BN had about 2 or 3 flights a day during the 12-month period they were here. That coworker gave me a BN uniform patch that I still have.

According to Splash of Colors, John Nance's excellent book on the collapse of Braniff, those tag-ons were the only reason these routes were even profitable.

According to the July 1, 1979 Braniff route map, PIT was served through MCI and MEM, but in the October 28, 1979 schedule, only MCI was served nonstop.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
USAir707
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:49 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:55 am

Do you think American Airlines will park any other aircraft types in PIT? Also, does anyone think any other airlines will use PIT to park any aircraft from their fleet?
 
PITexpress
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:59 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:07 pm

Seems like a lot of AA Airbuses came through over the weekend at the end of last week. Would be curious to see a full list. It was crazy looking at Flightaware and seeing A321's coming in from PHX, LAX, etc. I'm guessing we never thought those A321NEO's would be back so soon. I hope the airport posts more photos of the parking lot airfield.
 
Gsasala
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:04 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:31 pm

PITexpress wrote:
Seems like a lot of AA Airbuses came through over the weekend at the end of last week. Would be curious to see a full list. It was crazy looking at Flightaware and seeing A321's coming in from PHX, LAX, etc. I'm guessing we never thought those A321NEO's would be back so soon. I hope the airport posts more photos of the parking lot airfield.

There's currently over 80 AA Aircraft parked at PIT right now, Runway28L posted the tail number of all the planes parked at PIT on the AA fleet page, that's how I found out the plane I took the go to Europe on is parked at PIT right now
 
ckpaeg
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:37 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:16 pm

The 190’s will be moved to Roswell ‘soon’ - exact date TBD. There is not 190 flying scheduled until May, and even that has to be questionable at this point.
 
 
worldtraveler2
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:43 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:54 pm

USAir707 wrote:
Do you think American Airlines will park any other aircraft types in PIT? Also, does anyone think any other airlines will use PIT to park any aircraft from their fleet?


Here's insight: https://blueskypit.com/2020/03/30/parked-planes-stack-up-at-u-s-airports/
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 1101
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:23 am

USAir707 wrote:
Do you think American Airlines will park any other aircraft types in PIT? Also, does anyone think any other airlines will use PIT to park any aircraft from their fleet?


AA probably will end up taking up most of the available space given that they have their MX base, which specializes in Airbus maintenance. I'm surprised that WN hasn't parked some of their birds at PIT to relieve the stress from BWI or MDW (presuming they have parked jets).
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
 
CaptainMidnight
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:18 pm

Do those planes land as normal and park at a gate to let off the crew, etc and then are towed out to their resting spot on the runway or do the planes land and taxi directly to its resting spot?
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1925
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:46 pm

Condor might be nationalized by the German gov't as it looks like the LOT deal is falling apart:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-condor-nationalisation-exclusive/exclusive-germany-ready-to-nationalize-airline-condor-sources-idUSKBN21J5F9

LOT acquiring Condor made little sense to me. So far their PIT schedule remains unchanged.

BA is scheduled to resume May 1, 4x weekly. I'm sure both will change. Making predictions at this point is useless but I'll make one anyway - Condor will significantly reduce or eliminate their ambitious 2020 N. American expansion, freeing up their own 767s which in turn eliminates the need and cost of using Omni. We'll see what happens.
FLYi
 
PITexpress
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:59 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:57 pm

flyPIT wrote:
Condor might be nationalized by the German gov't as it looks like the LOT deal is falling apart:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-condor-nationalisation-exclusive/exclusive-germany-ready-to-nationalize-airline-condor-sources-idUSKBN21J5F9

LOT acquiring Condor made little sense to me. So far their PIT schedule remains unchanged.

BA is scheduled to resume May 1, 4x weekly. I'm sure both will change. Making predictions at this point is useless but I'll make one anyway - Condor will significantly reduce or eliminate their ambitious 2020 N. American expansion, freeing up their own 767s which in turn eliminates the need and cost of using Omni. We'll see what happens.


Agreed that making predictions is difficult. But I would imagine any ambitious expansion this year isn't going to happen. I think we're lucky if Condor returns at all this summer, or at all. The COVID-19 crisis doesn't help their already tenuous state.
 
AaronPGH
Posts: 560
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:13 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:21 pm

That flight is toast for 2020. Absolutely no way.
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1375
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:39 pm

Over under on if//when BA resumes? My vote is summer of '21. Not a chance in bleep it'll be back this summer in my opinion. Look at how many summer events are now getting cancelled or postponed-- Wimbledon in London being one of them.
 
AaronPGH
Posts: 560
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:13 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:40 pm

ncflyer wrote:
Over under on if//when BA resumes? My vote is summer of '21. Not a chance in bleep it'll be back this summer in my opinion. Look at how many summer events are now getting cancelled or postponed-- Wimbledon in London being one of them.


I think that one depends on 1) if the virus flares back up again in the fall like some experts think it might, and 2) folks appetite for travel coming off of this. I think you're probably right about summer '21.
 
flightsimer
Posts: 1068
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:34 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:25 pm

USAir707 wrote:
Do you think American Airlines will park any other aircraft types in PIT? Also, does anyone think any other airlines will use PIT to park any aircraft from their fleet?

Republic, I believe had already began storing planes before the first 330 showed up. We have 15 planes stored between the hangar area and Taxiway Charlie. Plus all the planes that will be passing through for maintenance and operating flights.
Commercial / Airline Pilot
 
PITfall
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:45 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:32 pm

AaronPGH wrote:
ncflyer wrote:
Over under on if//when BA resumes? My vote is summer of '21. Not a chance in bleep it'll be back this summer in my opinion. Look at how many summer events are now getting cancelled or postponed-- Wimbledon in London being one of them.


I think that one depends on 1) if the virus flares back up again in the fall like some experts think it might, and 2) folks appetite for travel coming off of this. I think you're probably right about summer '21.


Anyone know if there is an impact to the two year subsidy?
 
Gsasala
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:04 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:52 am

PITfall wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:
ncflyer wrote:
Over under on if//when BA resumes? My vote is summer of '21. Not a chance in bleep it'll be back this summer in my opinion. Look at how many summer events are now getting cancelled or postponed-- Wimbledon in London being one of them.


I think that one depends on 1) if the virus flares back up again in the fall like some experts think it might, and 2) folks appetite for travel coming off of this. I think you're probably right about summer '21.


Anyone know if there is an impact to the two year subsidy?

I believe they won't be getting their subsidies as they aren't flying, but once they start flying the subsidy will start again
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3597
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:13 am

ncflyer wrote:
Over under on if//when BA resumes? My vote is summer of '21. Not a chance in bleep it'll be back this summer in my opinion. Look at how many summer events are now getting cancelled or postponed-- Wimbledon in London being one of them.


I’d say that’s the earliest.
 
User avatar
ConcourseZ
Posts: 442
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:07 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:42 pm

Regarding BA (and LH), here's an article on their current status, and it's not pretty. LH has 763 aircraft, with about 700 grounded. BA with massive layoffs. What type of checks have to be completed to get the fleets back in the air? What would the pilots have to do before returning to flight after months of inactivity? Can they have sim training now? If they restart in mid-summer, probably months before any airline can get back to pre-grounded conditions, given no financial constraints.

https://www.dw.com/en/lufthansa-and-bri ... a-52990805
 
Gsasala
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:04 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:59 am

ConcourseZ wrote:
Regarding BA (and LH), here's an article on their current status, and it's not pretty. LH has 763 aircraft, with about 700 grounded. BA with massive layoffs. What type of checks have to be completed to get the fleets back in the air? What would the pilots have to do before returning to flight after months of inactivity? Can they have sim training now? If they restart in mid-summer, probably months before any airline can get back to pre-grounded conditions, given no financial constraints.

https://www.dw.com/en/lufthansa-and-bri ... a-52990805

Most of the people being laid off aren't pilots, it's mostly people working behind the scenes
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1925
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:48 pm

AS operating PIT-BWI April 10-30 as a tag from SEA-PIT. Tickets ain't cheap either!
FLYi
 
PITflier
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:03 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:28 pm

flyPIT wrote:
AS operating PIT-BWI April 10-30 as a tag from SEA-PIT. Tickets ain't cheap either!


AS is operating a lot of interesting tag flights so they can maintain service all their destinations which is a requirement of the CARES Act so they can get their bailout.

They're also operating the following:
    Seattle - Dallas - Houston
    Seattle - Raleigh - Charleston
    Seattle - Minneapolis - Columbus
    Seattle - San Luis Obispo - Santa Barbara
 
PITexpress
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:59 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:12 pm

PITflier wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
AS operating PIT-BWI April 10-30 as a tag from SEA-PIT. Tickets ain't cheap either!


AS is operating a lot of interesting tag flights so they can maintain service all their destinations which is a requirement of the CARES Act so they can get their bailout.

They're also operating the following:
    Seattle - Dallas - Houston
    Seattle - Raleigh - Charleston
    Seattle - Minneapolis - Columbus
    Seattle - San Luis Obispo - Santa Barbara


Kinda brings us back to the old days of flying with multiple tag flights.
 
PITflier
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:03 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:58 pm

PITexpress wrote:
Kinda brings us back to the old days of flying with multiple tag flights.


I remember flying on British Airways (the first time around) PIT-YUL-LGW and PIT-IAD-LGW.
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1925
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:09 pm

PITflier wrote:
I remember flying on British Airways (the first time around) PIT-YUL-LGW and PIT-IAD-LGW.

You went to LHR :-)
FLYi
 
PITflier
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:03 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:09 pm

flyPIT wrote:
PITflier wrote:
I remember flying on British Airways (the first time around) PIT-YUL-LGW and PIT-IAD-LGW.

You went to LHR :-)


You're right, I believe they switched to LGW after the investment in USAir?
 
USPIT10L
Posts: 2061
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:24 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:22 pm

I recall the BA flight in those years using LHR in the winter (usually with a tech stop) and LGW in the summer.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1925
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:26 pm

PIT-IAD/PHL-LHR was the original route beginning in 1985. They switched to nonstop LGW in the early 90's with the USAir investment. When that alliance fell apart BA continued to serve PIT-LGW nonstop with a B763, however there was a winter season or two when the route operated to LHR again via YUL with a B742 in lieu of the nonstop LGW B763.

The IAD/PHL stops were before the USAir investment. The (limited) YUL stops were after. BA had full traffic rights on the PIT-YUL sector.
FLYi
 
Runway28L
Posts: 2101
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:02 am

Spirit is parking planes at LBE. Five aircraft currently there with another one scheduled. Here's an A320 ferrying in from DTW just now:

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/NK8650
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1925
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:50 am

Feb numbers finally released. It was a strong month with 6.5% growth which I find exceptional considering the MAX groundings. As expected int'l growth also very strong at 29%
https://flypittsburgh.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/February_2020_Short_E-Mail_Report.pdf
FLYi
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 1101
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:06 am

flyPIT wrote:
Feb numbers finally released. It was a strong month with 6.5% growth which I find exceptional considering the MAX groundings. As expected int'l growth also very strong at 29%
https://flypittsburgh.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/February_2020_Short_E-Mail_Report.pdf


I shudder to think about what the March numbers will be, never mind April...
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
umichman
Posts: 150
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:42 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:36 am

Looks like UA only had two flights from PIT on Tuesday (both Republic flights). US3575 to ORD and UA3511 to IAH.
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1925
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:19 pm

Courtesy of LBE's FB page. Looks like 7 planes in that shot:
Image



Also at LBE:
"Heavy rain and winds caused plenty of damage at the Arnold Palmer Regional Airport in Latrobe overnight. The storm caused a hangar to be ripped from the ground and blown away.

According to KDKA Westmoreland Bureau Chief Ross Guidotti, the hangar was ripped out of the ground and blew across Route 981.l
"

Ouch.
Image
FLYi
 
Runway28L
Posts: 2101
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:38 pm

Noticed that FedEx has been operating some extra sectors between PIT and MEM with 757s or A300s for the past week. Here's the usual 767 plus an A300 for tonight:
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/FX361
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/FX981
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1375
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:02 am

flyPIT wrote:
Feb numbers finally released. It was a strong month with 6.5% growth which I find exceptional considering the MAX groundings. As expected int'l growth also very strong at 29%
https://flypittsburgh.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/February_2020_Short_E-Mail_Report.pdf


A leap year doesn’t hurt.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3597
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:39 am

Looks like Spirit wants to quit service to PIT and LBE for the moment and still get bailout money

https://twitter.com/e_russell/status/12 ... 90689?s=20
 
PITexpress
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:59 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:23 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Looks like Spirit wants to quit service to PIT and LBE for the moment and still get bailout money

https://twitter.com/e_russell/status/12 ... 90689?s=20


I've been kinda suprised that the have been maintaining the level of service that they have.

Also, not that it's a surprise, but UA has been reducing flights and frequencies. The only destination PIT has temporarily lost is SFO.
https://hub.united.com/united-further-r ... 16655.html
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3597
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:11 pm

PITexpress wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Looks like Spirit wants to quit service to PIT and LBE for the moment and still get bailout money

https://twitter.com/e_russell/status/12 ... 90689?s=20


I've been kinda suprised that the have been maintaining the level of service that they have.

Also, not that it's a surprise, but UA has been reducing flights and frequencies. The only destination PIT has temporarily lost is SFO.
https://hub.united.com/united-further-r ... 16655.html


UA dropped PIT-EWR for April also.
 
Runway28L
Posts: 2101
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:22 am

Looks like again another busy evening for FedEx again. Three B763s on the ground at once tonight, including special MEM-PIT-CLE/ORD flights.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/FX356
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/FX598
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/FX1203
 
flightsimer
Posts: 1068
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:34 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:14 am

Jshank83 wrote:
PITexpress wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Looks like Spirit wants to quit service to PIT and LBE for the moment and still get bailout money

https://twitter.com/e_russell/status/12 ... 90689?s=20


I've been kinda suprised that the have been maintaining the level of service that they have.

Also, not that it's a surprise, but UA has been reducing flights and frequencies. The only destination PIT has temporarily lost is SFO.
https://hub.united.com/united-further-r ... 16655.html


UA dropped PIT-EWR for April also.

That’s due to EWR essentially being shut dow. All of UAX is canceled out of EWR of which, PiT-EWR was served exclusively by. UA is down to just a handful of flights a day in EWR. It’s a Complete ghost town at LGA and EWR.

Pit has also lost all non-stop on:

DL
PIT-BOS
PIT-LGA
PIT-JFK

AA
PIT-LGA
PIT-JFK
Commercial / Airline Pilot
 
Gsasala
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:04 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:11 pm

So AS flights between SEA, PIT and BWI seems to be interesting, so according to flight radar it looks like the flight flys from SEA to PIT then PIT to BWI then stays over night in BWI before it comes back to PIT them on to SEA
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1925
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:55 am

I very recently obtained some diagrams from 1970 that showed how PIT would look like by 2000. Very interesting how they envisioned the airport.

I figured I'd share them now since there is absolutely nothing else good to talk about. Click on image to enlarge

Image

Image

Image
Image
Image


Some thoughts:
- On the airport diagram what appears to be 10C/28C is actually present day 10R/28L, and a new 10R/28L would be built to the immediate south. This would have provided a wider area to build the midfield terminal.
- What is 10C/28C today (the original 10/28, then relabeled 10R/28L when 10L/28R was built) was to have its western 2/3 eliminated, leaving the eastern section available as a general aviation runway of about 3,500' long.
- Note the V/STOL port in the area currently known as "Neighborhood 91" with two runways about 1,500' long.
- Total of 9 runways, including the GA and STOL runways
- The Beaver Valley Expressway was to be extended around the old terminal as depicted. There were plans to remove the traffic light at I-376B and University Blvd to sort of follow through with this concept up until fairly recently but they just completed a new strip mall where part of this interchange would have gone.
- Note the huge ramp and service road on the west side of the new 14/32 runways. This undoubtedly would have served to anchor some sort of aeronautical/industrial complex, the lack of which I was just grumbling about recently.

All in all very interesting plans! Amazing these are 50 years old. Very grandiose with putting the airport expressway under 10L/28R, structured parking below the main terminal, 4 separate APM lines, and all those satellite concourses. It wouldn't have worked well for hubbing operations but as the airport transitions its facilities to cater to O&D all they would have needed to do is extend the two middle satellites westward to meet the main terminal.
FLYi
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1925
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:56 am

To follow on to the prior post, here is the timeline of what really happened:

Image
Image

As you can see, Katselas (the architect for Midfield) didn't come on until about 10 years after the 1970 plan. I'm inclined to believe that if they would have done the original plan without him it would still look more modern than what he came up with. It's no wonder it looked very 1970's the day it opened considering how long it took to get the thing built.


Also pulled from my collection of stuff is this report that was published while the terminal was under construction. It's amazing to read about some of the concerns and predictions that never came to fruition such as housing shortages, rampant development that never happened, highway and transit improvements that never happened, etc.


Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

The opening scenario with visions of mass transit, 8 lane airport expressway, playing golf at the old terminal vs. sitting in traffic on unimproved roadways. We all know what reality became!

Other bits I found entertaining:
- Rampant job growth (never happened)
- Creating an airport authority would be too expensive (an airport authority was subsequently created)
- The Thorn Run interchange being described as a "small triumph". That interchange was built but considering PennDot can't engineer its way out of a wet paper bag, that newish interchange is being completely rebuilt with a new design as I type this.
- The quote "If you're not a hub, you're in serious, deep weeds". Oops.
- Robinson Town Center cost as much as the terminal.


One thing is certain, the architecture of the Midfield terminal reminds me of a certain fast food chain:
Image
Image
FLYi
 
PITexpress
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:59 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:16 pm

flyPIT wrote:
I very recently obtained some diagrams from 1970 that showed how PIT would look like by 2000. Very interesting how they envisioned the airport.

Some thoughts:
- On the airport diagram what appears to be 10C/28C is actually present day 10R/28L, and a new 10R/28L would be built to the immediate south. This would have provided a wider area to build the midfield terminal.
- What is 10C/28C today (the original 10/28, then relabeled 10R/28L when 10L/28R was built) was to have its western 2/3 eliminated, leaving the eastern section available as a general aviation runway of about 3,500' long.
- Note the V/STOL port in the area currently known as "Neighborhood 91" with two runways about 1,500' long.
- Total of 9 runways, including the GA and STOL runways
- The Beaver Valley Expressway was to be extended around the old terminal as depicted. There were plans to remove the traffic light at I-376B and University Blvd to sort of follow through with this concept up until fairly recently but they just completed a new strip mall where part of this interchange would have gone.
- Note the huge ramp and service road on the west side of the new 14/32 runways. This undoubtedly would have served to anchor some sort of aeronautical/industrial complex, the lack of which I was just grumbling about recently.

All in all very interesting plans! Amazing these are 50 years old. Very grandiose with putting the airport expressway under 10L/28R, structured parking below the main terminal, 4 separate APM lines, and all those satellite concourses. It wouldn't have worked well for hubbing operations but as the airport transitions its facilities to cater to O&D all they would have needed to do is extend the two middle satellites westward to meet the main terminal.


Very interesting... especially how different the airport expressway would have been. I'm like, could they have made that highway anymore challenging with all of those runway underpasses? And all those different underground people movers? I'm sure the ACAA would be balking at the costs of operating them now. Plus the extra runways.
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1925
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:27 pm

FLYi
 
CaptainMidnight
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:02 am

flyPIT wrote:
I very recently obtained some diagrams from 1970 that showed how PIT would look like by 2000. Very interesting how they envisioned the airport.

I figured I'd share them now since there is absolutely nothing else good to talk about. Click on image to enlarge

Image

Image

Image
Image
Image


Some thoughts:
- On the airport diagram what appears to be 10C/28C is actually present day 10R/28L, and a new 10R/28L would be built to the immediate south. This would have provided a wider area to build the midfield terminal.
- What is 10C/28C today (the original 10/28, then relabeled 10R/28L when 10L/28R was built) was to have its western 2/3 eliminated, leaving the eastern section available as a general aviation runway of about 3,500' long.
- Note the V/STOL port in the area currently known as "Neighborhood 91" with two runways about 1,500' long.
- Total of 9 runways, including the GA and STOL runways
- The Beaver Valley Expressway was to be extended around the old terminal as depicted. There were plans to remove the traffic light at I-376B and University Blvd to sort of follow through with this concept up until fairly recently but they just completed a new strip mall where part of this interchange would have gone.
- Note the huge ramp and service road on the west side of the new 14/32 runways. This undoubtedly would have served to anchor some sort of aeronautical/industrial complex, the lack of which I was just grumbling about recently.

All in all very interesting plans! Amazing these are 50 years old. Very grandiose with putting the airport expressway under 10L/28R, structured parking below the main terminal, 4 separate APM lines, and all those satellite concourses. It wouldn't have worked well for hubbing operations but as the airport transitions its facilities to cater to O&D all they would have needed to do is extend the two middle satellites westward to meet the main terminal.


Good stuff! Looks like the people mover cars were planned to be Skybus?
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1925
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:33 am

CaptainMidnight wrote:
Good stuff! Looks like the people mover cars were planned to be Skybus?

That may very well be. Skybus, developed by Westinghouse, is the forerunner of airport people movers in use today all over the world.
FLYi
 
Teeeye81
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:46 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:44 pm

Fdx1382, a second 763 last night, took a strange route back to MEM last night. Took of 28R and went north then continued a 270 degree turn to the south. It turned eastbound to Harrisburg. At FL230 for a good while the up to FL370. Turned south for a good while then SW toward MEM. Couldn’t figure out why. No weather. Very little traffic. Training? Got me. Anybody got any ideas? Can’t post the track. Sorry
  • 1
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9
  • 11

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos