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Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:17 pm

Welcome to the Indiana State Aviation Thread 2020. Please continue your discussion and to post your updates here.

Link to previous thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1413053
 
FWAERJ
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:43 pm

The big question for me this year: Will F9 enter FWA?
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freakyrat
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:05 pm

FWAERJ wrote:
The big question for me this year: Will F9 enter FWA?


I think there is to much competition with G4. Also I think they are gate maxed out at DEN and are waiting for the additions to be done.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:07 pm

Here is another one for this year.

Will G4 start seasonal SBN-MYR? Will SBN finally get that seasonal flight on G4 to CUN? Will DEN service resume on UA or F9 and will AA start PHL?
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:29 pm

Forbes is making a bold prediction: By 2025 with aircraft like the Airbus A321XLR Transatlantic travel from secondary airports will be quite routine. Will Indianapolis get more TATL flights? The article was specificaly talking about ALB, GRR, CMH and SDF.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:40 pm

Looks like G4 will be flying from FWA to LAS on Mondays and Fridays from the first Monday in June till August 17th
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:21 pm

freakyrat wrote:
Looks like G4 will be flying from FWA to LAS on Mondays and Fridays from the first Monday in June till August 17th


Story

https://wpta21.com/2020/02/11/allegiant ... p-flights/
 
jetskipper
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:47 pm

Starting September United will be increasing ORD-SBN to 10 daily. Nice increase, but all will
be flown on either E145s or CRJ-200s. It would have been nice to see SBN-DEN added instead of a ORD increase.
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:39 pm

jetskipper wrote:
Starting September United will be increasing ORD-SBN to 10 daily. Nice increase, but all will
be flown on either E145s or CRJ-200s. It would have been nice to see SBN-DEN added instead of a ORD increase.


That's crazy .. I agree DEN and IAD service instead
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:53 pm

crjflyboy wrote:
jetskipper wrote:
Starting September United will be increasing ORD-SBN to 10 daily. Nice increase, but all will
be flown on either E145s or CRJ-200s. It would have been nice to see SBN-DEN added instead of a ORD increase.


That's crazy .. I agree DEN and IAD service instead

There is at least 1 E175 - looking to late September
UA DL LH NW AA WN - Hope I don't have to leave WY for a while
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ibthebigd
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:32 pm

Could United be trying to block American from starting ORD?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:38 pm

ibthebigd wrote:
Could United be trying to block American from starting ORD?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Doubtful ... there has to be little to no O & D on this route ... one can drive faster to Chicago when it's all factored in
 
jetskipper
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:23 am

Something still seems out of whack. EVV and FWA each have 3 flights a day and SBN has 10. Did they pick up a corporate contract?
 
FWAERJ
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:50 am

jetskipper wrote:
Something still seems out of whack. EVV and FWA each have 3 flights a day and SBN has 10. Did they pick up a corporate contract?


AA doesn’t fly SBN-ORD, but they do fly FWA-ORD and EVV-ORD 3-4x daily depending on time of year, and 2 of AA’s FWA-ORD flights are on F9Y56 CR7s.

So when you combine AA + UA FWA-ORD, you have the equivalent of 7.6 to 8.8 RTs on SBN-ORD with just UA.

Keep in mind that the FWACAA has stated to local media that they’re talking with UA on the real prize, FWA-DEN, when the first of 24 new UA DEN gates open this fall.
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crjflyboy
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:54 am

FWAERJ wrote:
jetskipper wrote:
Something still seems out of whack. EVV and FWA each have 3 flights a day and SBN has 10. Did they pick up a corporate contract?


AA doesn’t fly SBN-ORD, but they do fly FWA-ORD and EVV-ORD 3-4x daily depending on time of year, and 2 of AA’s FWA-ORD flights are on F9Y56 CR7s.

So when you combine AA + UA FWA-ORD, you have the equivalent of 7.6 to 8.8 RTs on SBN-ORD with just UA.

Keep in mind that the FWACAA has stated to local media that they’re talking with UA on the real prize, FWA-DEN, when the first of 24 new UA DEN gates open this fall.


I do see FWA - DEN service when those gates open ... the amount of pax you continue to draw from NW Ohio and Michigan is impressive to your facility.
 
FWAERJ
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:00 am

crjflyboy wrote:
FWAERJ wrote:
jetskipper wrote:
Something still seems out of whack. EVV and FWA each have 3 flights a day and SBN has 10. Did they pick up a corporate contract?


AA doesn’t fly SBN-ORD, but they do fly FWA-ORD and EVV-ORD 3-4x daily depending on time of year, and 2 of AA’s FWA-ORD flights are on F9Y56 CR7s.

So when you combine AA + UA FWA-ORD, you have the equivalent of 7.6 to 8.8 RTs on SBN-ORD with just UA.

Keep in mind that the FWACAA has stated to local media that they’re talking with UA on the real prize, FWA-DEN, when the first of 24 new UA DEN gates open this fall.


I do see FWA - DEN service when those gates open ... the amount of pax you continue to draw from NW Ohio and Michigan is impressive to your facility.


And to think that many of the Ohio pax were DAY’s once upon a time during the days of AirTran and their renegade pricing strategy, long before DAY became one of the most expensive airports in America to fly from. The Van Wert and Lima markets used to be DAY country before FWA became cheaper than DAY.

Of note: with the addition of LAS, FWA is now at destination parity with SBN, though in both cases, not all routes operate year-round.
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crjflyboy
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:26 am

FWAERJ wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
FWAERJ wrote:

AA doesn’t fly SBN-ORD, but they do fly FWA-ORD and EVV-ORD 3-4x daily depending on time of year, and 2 of AA’s FWA-ORD flights are on F9Y56 CR7s.

So when you combine AA + UA FWA-ORD, you have the equivalent of 7.6 to 8.8 RTs on SBN-ORD with just UA.

Keep in mind that the FWACAA has stated to local media that they’re talking with UA on the real prize, FWA-DEN, when the first of 24 new UA DEN gates open this fall.


I do see FWA - DEN service when those gates open ... the amount of pax you continue to draw from NW Ohio and Michigan is impressive to your facility.


And to think that many of the Ohio pax were DAY’s once upon a time during the days of AirTran and their renegade pricing strategy, long before DAY became one of the most expensive airports in America to fly from. The Van Wert and Lima markets used to be DAY country before FWA became cheaper than DAY.

Of note: with the addition of LAS, FWA is now at destination parity with SBN, though in both cases, not all routes operate year-round.


Can not say about any DAY traffic ... FWA is pulling potential traffic from the TOL catchment area.

I also can see DL doing SLC service once the new terminal there is finished from FWA.
Last edited by crjflyboy on Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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exFWAOONW
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:27 am

UA didn't have much luck on FWA-DEN when they tried back in the day. Maybe times are different, maybe not. It would be a nice hop to anywhere on the west coast from there, the same as it was before.
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:37 am

exFWAOONW wrote:
UA didn't have much luck on FWA-DEN when they tried back in the day. Maybe times are different, maybe not. It would be a nice hop to anywhere on the west coast from there, the same as it was before.


How many decades ago was that UA service ? The Old Frontier flew that route as well.
 
jetskipper
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:38 am

exFWAOONW wrote:
UA didn't have much luck on FWA-DEN when they tried back in the day. Maybe times are different, maybe not. It would be a nice hop to anywhere on the west coast from there, the same as it was before.


That was a much different environment in the early 80s. FWA-DEN was flown with 727s. I agree, I think the new gates in DEN will start the introduction of service to a multitude of small market cities and I would think FWA, SBN and EVV would be on the shortlist.
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:59 am

jetskipper wrote:
exFWAOONW wrote:
UA didn't have much luck on FWA-DEN when they tried back in the day. Maybe times are different, maybe not. It would be a nice hop to anywhere on the west coast from there, the same as it was before.


That was a much different environment in the early 80s. FWA-DEN was flown with 727s. I agree, I think the new gates in DEN will start the introduction of service to a multitude of small market cities and I would think FWA, SBN and EVV would be on the shortlist.


And the old FRONTIER flew 737's on the route .. I don't think EVV is in the mix though

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... lagi-1.jpg
 
FWAERJ
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:33 pm

crjflyboy wrote:
FWAERJ wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:

I do see FWA - DEN service when those gates open ... the amount of pax you continue to draw from NW Ohio and Michigan is impressive to your facility.


And to think that many of the Ohio pax were DAY’s once upon a time during the days of AirTran and their renegade pricing strategy, long before DAY became one of the most expensive airports in America to fly from. The Van Wert and Lima markets used to be DAY country before FWA became cheaper than DAY.

Of note: with the addition of LAS, FWA is now at destination parity with SBN, though in both cases, not all routes operate year-round.


Can not say about any DAY traffic ... FWA is pulling potential traffic from the TOL catchment area.

I also can see DL doing SLC service once the new terminal there is finished from FWA.


The only overlap that FWA has with TOL is Defiance and Napoleon. For both, after US 24 became four lanes connecting directly to I-469 (which has near-direct access to FWA), FWA is actually a faster airport to get to than TOL for the past decade. And it should be noted that FWA’s 10
year streak of traffic increases started the same year as US 24 going four lane.

Those closer to Toledo than Napoleon always use DTW as their non-TOL airport.
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capitalflyer
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:04 pm

jetskipper wrote:
Something still seems out of whack. EVV and FWA each have 3 flights a day and SBN has 10. Did they pick up a corporate contract?


I commented on the OAG thread on this as well. I imagine this is increased demand as Coach USA service ended at end of 2019. UA waited to see what demand would look like with out a bus option to ORD or MDW, and apparently it is considerable. Maybe 10x is a bit much, but I would imagine they easily lost a couple flights worth of potential passengers who took the bus instead to ORD because the math worked better than paying the premium that includes the SBN leg. Maybe they go back to 8 or 9, but I think 10 is a good place to start in post-Coach USA environment.

Here is an additional theory. This could also be the beginning of the juggling that will happen as ExpressJet takes over more flying for UA, Trans States goes away and SkyWest retrenches west of the Mississippi. If/when DEN service is begun (and perhaps this move portends an announcement approaching in the coming months), SkyWest could perhaps continue 2x to DEN on E75 and leave ORD flights to ExpressJet.

In addition, I wonder if the maintenance base at SBN might become a ExpressJet facility soon and SkyWest might shift entirely out of SBN? The other option I guess could be that one of the DEN flights is a RON flight that gets in late and is ready to go for 6am flight to meet the early bank at DEN, getting maintenance overnight. Also, with SBN a short hop from ORD, they could shuttle aircraft back and forth in a pinch if maintenance space is at a premium at ORD.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:45 pm

ibthebigd wrote:
Could United be trying to block American from starting ORD?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


The real reason for the added flights is that Coach USA has discontinued their bus service to MDW and ORD from Soouth Bend. That is causing more people to choose to fly to their connections.

American did fly a few SBN-ORD flights for the USC game last year to handle the overflow.

Skywest does overnight maintenance at SBN on all of their CRJ series jets including ones from United Express, Delta Connection and American Eagle. They have also ferried some of their American Eagle CRJ700's in from ORD to work on them.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:52 pm

crjflyboy wrote:
FWAERJ wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:

I do see FWA - DEN service when those gates open ... the amount of pax you continue to draw from NW Ohio and Michigan is impressive to your facility.


And to think that many of the Ohio pax were DAY’s once upon a time during the days of AirTran and their renegade pricing strategy, long before DAY became one of the most expensive airports in America to fly from. The Van Wert and Lima markets used to be DAY country before FWA became cheaper than DAY.

Of note: with the addition of LAS, FWA is now at destination parity with SBN, though in both cases, not all routes operate year-round.


Can not say about any DAY traffic ... FWA is pulling potential traffic from the TOL catchment area.

I also can see DL doing SLC service once the new terminal there is finished from FWA.


Not a chance there is FWA-SLC service any time soon. They can't even do better than a single 50 seater to MSP daily, no way could DL make FWA-SLC work.
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freakyrat
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:02 pm

capitalflyer wrote:
jetskipper wrote:
Something still seems out of whack. EVV and FWA each have 3 flights a day and SBN has 10. Did they pick up a corporate contract?


I commented on the OAG thread on this as well. I imagine this is increased demand as Coach USA service ended at end of 2019. UA waited to see what demand would look like with out a bus option to ORD or MDW, and apparently it is considerable. Maybe 10x is a bit much, but I would imagine they easily lost a couple flights worth of potential passengers who took the bus instead to ORD because the math worked better than paying the premium that includes the SBN leg. Maybe they go back to 8 or 9, but I think 10 is a good place to start in post-Coach USA environment.

Here is an additional theory. This could also be the beginning of the juggling that will happen as ExpressJet takes over more flying for UA, Trans States goes away and SkyWest retrenches west of the Mississippi. If/when DEN service is begun (and perhaps this move portends an announcement approaching in the coming months), SkyWest could perhaps continue 2x to DEN on E75 and leave ORD flights to ExpressJet.

In addition, I wonder if the maintenance base at SBN might become a ExpressJet facility soon and SkyWest might shift entirely out of SBN? The other option I guess could be that one of the DEN flights is a RON flight that gets in late and is ready to go for 6am flight to meet the early bank at DEN, getting maintenance overnight. Also, with SBN a short hop from ORD, they could shuttle aircraft back and forth in a pinch if maintenance space is at a premium at ORD.


Skywest had the AA contract for the SBN-DFW CRJ700 flights. Air Wisconsin, ExpressJet and Skywest will probably run most of the SBN-ORD flights when Trans States goes away. Trans States does not usually operate any of the SBN flights but have the past few months. Skywest is all ready shuttleing aircraft back and forth from ORD to SBN for overnight maintenace. The additional ORD flights are indeed due to demand to replace the Coach USA bus service. I believe that an announcement on resumption of DEN flights will come pretty soon. Local UA folks are pushing for twice dailiy E75's. Demand is there as SBN served over 800,000 passengers last year. With a juggle of the United Express carriers I believe that UA is seeing where these SBN passengers are connecting to and are conducting feasibility for the DEN flights. Outside of the Months of January and February Frontier was averageing 118 pax boarded per flight with some flights having 130 seats taken while they served the route. With AA traffic up also I could see an announcement of a PHL R/T this year and possibly MIA. UA also could add IAD. We also do not know if G4 is going to add seasonal CUN flights. Good times in SBN for sure.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:07 pm

jetskipper wrote:
exFWAOONW wrote:
UA didn't have much luck on FWA-DEN when they tried back in the day. Maybe times are different, maybe not. It would be a nice hop to anywhere on the west coast from there, the same as it was before.


That was a much different environment in the early 80s. FWA-DEN was flown with 727s. I agree, I think the new gates in DEN will start the introduction of service to a multitude of small market cities and I would think FWA, SBN and EVV would be on the shortlist.


Times are a lot different. F9 before they went to an ULCC and outside of the months of January and February flew 22,000 plus passengers on SBN-DEN on an 133 seat A319 on 186 flights. They flew the route 3 times a week. UA could definitely make the SBN-DEN route work with twice daily E75 service. The new gates at DEN will lead to the introduction of service to a multitude of small market cities as UA could balance the connecting load at ORD.
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:51 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
FWAERJ wrote:

And to think that many of the Ohio pax were DAY’s once upon a time during the days of AirTran and their renegade pricing strategy, long before DAY became one of the most expensive airports in America to fly from. The Van Wert and Lima markets used to be DAY country before FWA became cheaper than DAY.

Of note: with the addition of LAS, FWA is now at destination parity with SBN, though in both cases, not all routes operate year-round.


Can not say about any DAY traffic ... FWA is pulling potential traffic from the TOL catchment area.

I also can see DL doing SLC service once the new terminal there is finished from FWA.


Not a chance there is FWA-SLC service any time soon. They can't even do better than a single 50 seater to MSP daily, no way could DL make FWA-SLC work.


Only so many pilots to go around at the moment .. SLC would not be adding all the gates for DL for no reason ..... current jet bridge count is 55 going to 78, and built to expand easily
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:10 pm

crjflyboy wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:

Can not say about any DAY traffic ... FWA is pulling potential traffic from the TOL catchment area.

I also can see DL doing SLC service once the new terminal there is finished from FWA.


Not a chance there is FWA-SLC service any time soon. They can't even do better than a single 50 seater to MSP daily, no way could DL make FWA-SLC work.


Only so many pilots to go around at the moment .. SLC would not be adding all the gates for DL for no reason ..... current jet bridge count is 55 going to 78, and built to expand easily


An ultra thin long route isn’t a good use of pilots and aircraft in the regional game. There’s only a handful of cities that SLC offers connections to that MSP doesn’t.
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crjflyboy
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:29 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:

Not a chance there is FWA-SLC service any time soon. They can't even do better than a single 50 seater to MSP daily, no way could DL make FWA-SLC work.


Only so many pilots to go around at the moment .. SLC would not be adding all the gates for DL for no reason ..... current jet bridge count is 55 going to 78, and built to expand easily


An ultra thin long route isn’t a good use of pilots and aircraft in the regional game. There’s only a handful of cities that SLC offers connections to that MSP doesn’t.


SLC offers direct service to multiple world class ski resorts ... MSP service can take you to the Mall of America

https://www.skiutah.com/members/listing/type/Resort

Service to SLC would also be about O & D traffic, not just pure connection service.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:37 pm

Just also checking AA's summer schedule. Seems like Skywest in addition to the DFW flights, is going to operate the SBN-CLT flights again which are now operated by PSA.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:41 pm

crjflyboy wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:

Only so many pilots to go around at the moment .. SLC would not be adding all the gates for DL for no reason ..... current jet bridge count is 55 going to 78, and built to expand easily


An ultra thin long route isn’t a good use of pilots and aircraft in the regional game. There’s only a handful of cities that SLC offers connections to that MSP doesn’t.


SLC offers direct service to multiple world class ski resorts ... MSP service can take you to the Mall of America

https://www.skiutah.com/members/listing/type/Resort

Service to SLC would also be about O & D traffic, not just pure connection service.


I was just wondering why Delta with suitable aircraft in the A220 and B717 doesn't offer SBN-SLC weekend service during ski season. According to the local Delta folks they sure put a lot of skis and snowboards on those Frontier Airbus A319 DEN flights from SBN.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:45 pm

Reference the comment on FWA-MSP on Delta. Delta operates 3 times daily SBN-MSP in the summer months.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:46 pm

freakyrat wrote:
Reference the comment on FWA-MSP on Delta. Delta operates 3 times daily SBN-MSP in the summer months.


Exactly, SBN stands a much better (albeit still near zero) chance of getting SLC
From my cold, dead hands
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:50 pm

The Bus service between Notre Dame, the South Bend International Airport, and MDW and ORD resumes March 3rd on Royal Excursion Bus Lines. Here is a link to the story.

https://www.wndu.com/content/news/South ... 84601.html
 
freakyrat
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:54 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
Reference the comment on FWA-MSP on Delta. Delta operates 3 times daily SBN-MSP in the summer months.


Exactly, SBN stands a much better (albeit still near zero) chance of getting SLC


A much better chance at getting DEN. DEN could work with United Mainline (Airbus A319) right now. Twice daily E75's would be more convenient though and a better use of resources.
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:58 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
Reference the comment on FWA-MSP on Delta. Delta operates 3 times daily SBN-MSP in the summer months.


Exactly, SBN stands a much better (albeit still near zero) chance of getting SLC


Those new gates at SLC are going to be used to send aircraft somewhere
 
jetskipper
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:58 am

crjflyboy wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
Reference the comment on FWA-MSP on Delta. Delta operates 3 times daily SBN-MSP in the summer months.


Exactly, SBN stands a much better (albeit still near zero) chance of getting SLC


Those new gates at SLC are going to be used to send aircraft somewhere


IND only has one DL A319 each day to SLC. The is no way that SBN or FWA have close to the demand to fill a SLC flight. Much larger markets such as SDF, MSN, GRR, ICT, TUL and DSM have no SLC service and all of those cities are DL mainline stations.
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:06 am

jetskipper wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:

Exactly, SBN stands a much better (albeit still near zero) chance of getting SLC


Those new gates at SLC are going to be used to send aircraft somewhere


IND only has one DL A319 each day to SLC. The is no way that SBN or FWA have close to the demand to fill a SLC flight. Much larger markets such as SDF, MSN, GRR, ICT, TUL and DSM have no SLC service and all of those cities are DL mainline stations.


We'll all see then will we not .. given that the new SLC terminal resembles a mini Hartsfield ... each new gate should be able 8.5 - 10 departures a day ... where will they go ?
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:40 am

crjflyboy wrote:
jetskipper wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:

Those new gates at SLC are going to be used to send aircraft somewhere


IND only has one DL A319 each day to SLC. The is no way that SBN or FWA have close to the demand to fill a SLC flight. Much larger markets such as SDF, MSN, GRR, ICT, TUL and DSM have no SLC service and all of those cities are DL mainline stations.


We'll all see then will we not .. given that the new SLC terminal resembles a mini Hartsfield ... each new gate should be able 8.5 - 10 departures a day ... where will they go ?


Where do all the gates in DTW go? Wait, they're boarded up not being used (half of terminal C).
From my cold, dead hands
 
jetskipper
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:55 am

I’m not sure. A short list may include:
-PIT
-BUF
-DAY
-SDF
-MSN
-ICT
-DSM
-ELP
Along with additional frequencies to current profitable routes.
 
capitalflyer
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:23 pm

freakyrat wrote:
The Bus service between Notre Dame, the South Bend International Airport, and MDW and ORD resumes March 3rd on Royal Excursion Bus Lines. Here is a link to the story.

https://www.wndu.com/content/news/South ... 84601.html


Well this might be a wrench in the works for UA. If folks haven't liked flying from SBN to ORD the past 3 months, then this will cut in to the potential to fill 10x daily frequency. Was UA aware that bus service was returning? I wouldn't think they would need to double frequency to be able to track connections. I imagine this might be pulled down in a month or so if pax go back to the bus. Right now a round trip flight from SBN to MCI is running about $325. ORD to MCI is $250. The bus is currently $90 round trip. So if UA can keep the fare difference under $90, they will sink the bus to O'Hare. Now Midway is another story. That same MCI trip is much cheaper at MDW, so the bus would be worth it.

This could be problematic for increased ORD service. However 2x DEN is still possible.

Can the SkyWest facility do maintenance on E75?
 
MastaHanky
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:17 pm

jetskipper wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:

Exactly, SBN stands a much better (albeit still near zero) chance of getting SLC


Those new gates at SLC are going to be used to send aircraft somewhere


IND only has one DL A319 each day to SLC. The is no way that SBN or FWA have close to the demand to fill a SLC flight. Much larger markets such as SDF, MSN, GRR, ICT, TUL and DSM have no SLC service and all of those cities are DL mainline stations.


Minor correction - MSN, TUL and DSM all have SLC service, although all are DL connection.

Nearby medium-sized cities like PIT, CMH and CLE also run 1x A319 to SLC - seems that aircraft is the sweet spot for the region.

I agree SBN stands a near-zero chance of getting SLC service in the next five years. UA to DEN is a much safer bet.
 
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rangercarp
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:03 pm

FWAERJ wrote:

The only overlap that FWA has with TOL is Defiance and Napoleon.
Those closer to Toledo than Napoleon always use DTW as their non-TOL airport.


The overlap between FWA and TOL is much greater than Defiance and Napoleon. I live in southern Michigan, 45 minutes from TOL. DTW is an hour and half. FWA is 1:45 away. (I wish FWA was on the north side of the city!) When you consider ease and proximity of parking, It is quicker to drive to FWA than DTW. If the price is competitive - and it is fairly often - I will choose FWA.
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freakyrat
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 1:48 am

capitalflyer wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
The Bus service between Notre Dame, the South Bend International Airport, and MDW and ORD resumes March 3rd on Royal Excursion Bus Lines. Here is a link to the story.

https://www.wndu.com/content/news/South ... 84601.html


Well this might be a wrench in the works for UA. If folks haven't liked flying from SBN to ORD the past 3 months, then this will cut in to the potential to fill 10x daily frequency. Was UA aware that bus service was returning? I wouldn't think they would need to double frequency to be able to track connections. I imagine this might be pulled down in a month or so if pax go back to the bus. Right now a round trip flight from SBN to MCI is running about $325. ORD to MCI is $250. The bus is currently $90 round trip. So if UA can keep the fare difference under $90, they will sink the bus to O'Hare. Now Midway is another story. That same MCI trip is much cheaper at MDW, so the bus would be worth it.

This could be problematic for increased ORD service. However 2x DEN is still possible.

Can the SkyWest facility do maintenance on E75?


The buses are only going to run FOUR times daily and will not be enough to meet demand and are going to take TWO hours when you factor in all the stops.

Another thing driving this air service demand is Project Propel which commits the local businesses to use the local air service. It is working better than expected.

Twice daily Denver E175 service is in the works. Other UA flights being worked on is a daily IAD R/T. Also a daily PHL R/T on American Eagle.

The Skywest Maintenance Facility at SBN is just for the CRJ series fleet. CRJ100/200/700 and 900. FWA has the Skywest E175 Maintenance facility.

Here is a link to SBN's December numbers. Total yearly increase averaged 13% Total air passengers using the airport in 2019 was over 830,000 a new record.
Any new service plus possible seasonal International flights to Cancun on G4 could very well push the totals next year close to 1 million air passengers served.

https://flysbn.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... c-2019.pdf

The airport has already conducted the engineering studies on rebuilding the terminal ramp so they can routinely use heavier aircraft. A complete ramp rebuild including taking out all the slopes on it and the adjacent taxiway will cost 3.5 million dollars and will gain the airport extra jetway sill heights on Gates 5-8. This would allow Airbus A320 series aircraft to use all gates. The airport has been in negotiations with Delta concerning mainline service to ATL to meet demand.

I'm going to be up is SBN in a week so I'm going to talk to my contacts and see what is going on. I do know that they started on a complete makeover of the terminal as depicted in the facilities booklet from their website. The ticket counters have been all redone. They should have installed new carpet and took out some of the crappy tile by now also.

I hope this answers some of your questions as to why UA has increased the flights.
 
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DL767STR
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:05 am

Don't think this was brought up yet, but another article has surfaced regarding commercial air service coming back to the Purdue LAF airport

https://www.wlfi.com/content/news/Plann ... 76251.html

This was in Oct 17, 2019, the last articles were from 2017 and mentioning the same or similar
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 620228001/

"We are getting close, I think, to the sufficient mass where it will make sense for somebody to start bringing planes in here," said Daniels.

The Purdue Airport declined to comment.

Purdue extended the airport's runway and has the infrastructure in place. Dennis said because of that, the process could move quickly when an airline decides to invest.


In 2009 there was an effort to attract service from United to O'Hare,
University and community leaders offered United a $500,000 grant and a revenue guarantee to offset any losses should it resume flights to O'Hare. The airline declined.



I don't know if there would be sufficient demand or not, there are a lot of people who visit Purdue and West Lafayette/Lafayette from all over the country and around the world, and I'm sure there's also a decent amount of business traffic from the businesses in Lafayette like Caterpillar, SIA Subaru, GE Aviation and so on. It would really come down to whether or not people would prefer to fly directly in or drive the 1 hour from IND or 2 hours from O'Hare here or take an airport shuttle service like Reindeer Shuttle or Lafayette Limo.

Personally if I'm flying Delta for example I'd rather fly nonstop from LAF to ATL, DTW, MSP, etc. and then connect onto my flight than add an additional step where I'm driving an hour to Indianapolis or paying around $50-$100 for an airport shuttle to take me there, then getting on a flight to a hub to make a connection.


I wonder what the local community or university would have to do to make commercial air service a reality again, the current airport manager Adam Baxmeyer worked for United Express from 1999 to 2001 at the Purdue airport, so he has experience with how commercial operations functioned there, and Delta and United fly in planes for sports team charters as well.
Overall there seems to be a lot of talking about air service returning every year, but at least from what I can see no major action or official announcement at all
M88 76 71 74 | DL FL LH
 
Tan Flyr
Posts: 1711
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:54 pm

If my memory serves correct, Britt Airways served LAF in the 70's, the Air Wisconsin (from 1978/79 on.?) with Metros and I think Dash-7's a stop on some sort of routing of DTW-FWA-LAF-ORD, and maybe once in a while a stop at SBN or Elkhart. I think by 81 or 82 it was a once or twice daily and not at the best times either. Also seem to recall NW airlink Saab 340's to DTW. not sure if that actually started under Republic or was later. While ORD would likely be the preferred hub to link to, less congested ones such as DTW, or on the outside MSP might have a better chance.

Everyone talking about the new 24 gates at DEN for this fall, one out of the box thought might be a FWA-LAF-DEN routing if UA was really interested. No idea if the market would support that. Just 2 cents worth.
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:59 pm

Mesaba did operate flights to DTW one time as well.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/erussell1984/13759423865

Planes are just too big now to make service viable to LAF.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:43 pm

crjflyboy wrote:
Mesaba did operate flights to DTW one time as well.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/erussell1984/13759423865

Planes are just too big now to make service viable to LAF.


Aircraft aren't the issue, it's the proximity to IND and even ORD, the Lafayette area is no different than some of the Illinois airports that have service.
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crjflyboy
Posts: 456
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Re: Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:04 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
Mesaba did operate flights to DTW one time as well.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/erussell1984/13759423865

Planes are just too big now to make service viable to LAF.


Aircraft aren't the issue, it's the proximity to IND and even ORD, the Lafayette area is no different than some of the Illinois airports that have service.


LAF catchment area is too small to support ERJ or CRJ service ... the population base is just not there.

The loss of the EAS designation in 1999 has doomed this facility.

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