Welcome to the Allegiant News and Discussion Thread 2020. Please continue your discussion and to post your updates here.

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Anyone have any idea when G4 could potentially announce their Mexico routes? Which cities in Mexico do you guys feel have the ability to get added first? CUN, GDL, SJD??

Hoping PVD has a shot at CUN. It’s our largest international market from a PDEW standpoint.

Hoping PVD has a shot at CUN. It’s our largest international market from a PDEW standpoint.

zackary747 wrote:

Anyone have any idea when G4 could potentially announce their Mexico routes? Which cities in Mexico do you guys feel have the ability to get added first? CUN, GDL, SJD??

Some years ago Allegiant execs said they were looking at CUN, SJD and PVR in Mexico for the initial southbound routes.

Allegiant also said in the past they saw some potential for northbound service, bringing Mexico residents to vacation in places like Las Vegas or Orlando. But those comments were made years ago before companies like Volaris began expanding Mexico to US routes.

FATFlyer wrote:

zackary747 wrote:

Anyone have any idea when G4 could potentially announce their Mexico routes? Which cities in Mexico do you guys feel have the ability to get added first? CUN, GDL, SJD??

Some years ago Allegiant execs said they were looking at CUN, SJD and PVR in Mexico for the initial southbound routes.

Allegiant also said in the past they saw some potential for northbound service, bringing Mexico residents to vacation in places like Las Vegas or Orlando. But those comments were made years ago before companies like Volaris began expanding Mexico to US routes.

Interesting. I would imagine G4 would start out with bringing US residents to Mexico to vacation.

Does anyone have insight onto the delivery schedule for new G4 aircraft bin 2020?

lightsaber wrote:

Does anyone have insight onto the delivery schedule for new G4 aircraft bin 2020?

G4 has one A319 and ten x A320 on property but not delivered yet. I don’t know when they’ll be delivered but here are their reg numbers, locations, and when they arrived at those locations;

A319
N338NV - VQQ - 10/4

A320
N236NV - BQN - 12/6
N237NV - LCQ - 12/20
N238NV - OSR - (VP-BWE) 8/17
N239NV - SVO - (VP-BWF) 9/19
N277NV - TPA - 10/1
N281NV - BQN - 10/14
N292NV - VQQ - 12/13
N293NV - GYR - 4/21
N294NV - GYR - 4/25
N295NV - GYR - 4/18

I don’t have any data on new-builds for 2020.

More than likely CUN will be the first place served and to the likes of PIT/CLE/IND/CVG/BNA

I would for them to announce the start of service at DFW. This was listed as one of the main gateways in the application.

Is G4 done with starting new small stations? NK seems to now be focusing on ULCC service in big markets and G4 on the Medium/large markets.

LotsaRunway wrote:

Is G4 done with starting new small stations? NK seems to now be focusing on ULCC service in big markets and G4 on the Medium/large markets.

What small stations are left... that could support G4 and don't have G4 or a ULCC within 90 minutes?

Looking at their route map, I would guess CSG AGS, MGM, JAN, ERI AMA, MAF, LBB would make the most feasible small stations left.

dabpit wrote:

I would for them to announce the start of service at DFW. This was listed as one of the main gateways in the application.

In addition to international routes, there are also some domestic destinations that G4 could serve nonstop from DFW such as CVG, VPS, GPT, TYS, LAS, SFB, PSP, AZA, SRQ, and SAV.

G4 had also stated in its application that it was seeking to add international flights out of Houston, and G4 could go to HOU (Hobby Airport) in the Houston market with Hobby Airport having gates that can handle international arrivals and international departures. G4 could also use HOU as an vacation destination airport for leisure passengers traveling to the Houston/Galveston area from Midwestern, Northeastern, and Southeastern markets already served by G4 with HOU being much closer to Galveston, Kemah, and the Gulf Coast than IAH is.

In addition to international flights or leisure traffic to Greater Houston from the Midwest, Northeast, and Southeast, G4 could also add nonstop service out of HOU to domestic destinations such as VPS, TYS, SFB, SRQ, and SAV for Houston-originating leisure passengers.

What E gates could G4 use at DFW?

RL757PVD wrote:

LotsaRunway wrote:

Is G4 done with starting new small stations? NK seems to now be focusing on ULCC service in big markets and G4 on the Medium/large markets.

What small stations are left... that could support G4 and don't have G4 or a ULCC within 90 minutes?

Looking at their route map, I would guess CSG AGS, MGM, JAN, ERI AMA, MAF, LBB would make the most feasible small stations left.

I agree with most of your list, but I don't think G4 is really looking in that direction anymore. If I recall correctly, they all but told ERI that they would come when their runway extension was completed so they could run MD80s to Florida from there. The runway was done years ago and I don't think G4 has any MD80s left.

https://www.allegiantair.com/interactive-routemap

Looks like they removed Mexico off their map. Looks like we weren't suppose to know about their plans lol.

They started SCE this past year, that would definitely count as a small station. Looking at the schedule for the summer it remains the same as initial start up, so we will see out that works out.

I would loved to see G4 offer more west coast services from PIE. TZ used to fly to LAX/LAS with thru service to Hawaii. Southeast Airlines, and Sunjet International flew to LAS from PIE, im not sure how successful they were, given not many people ever heard of those airlines before.

airtrantpa wrote:

I would loved to see G4 offer more west coast services from PIE. TZ used to fly to LAX/LAS with thru service to Hawaii. Southeast Airlines, and Sunjet International flew to LAS from PIE, im not sure how successful they were, given not many people ever heard of those airlines before.

G4 did PIE/IWA for a while a year or two ago. Not sure if it was load or crew time related, but the route didn’t last long. Pretty sure a lot of future domestic G4 growth needs to be East-West flying. The route map is very North-South heavy.

A319 N338NV ferried VQQ to PIE on 10 Jan to enter active service. 38 x A319 in service now at Allegiant.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N338NV

jgcotter wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

Does anyone have insight onto the delivery schedule for new G4 aircraft bin 2020?

G4 has one A319 and ten x A320 on property but not delivered yet. I don’t know when they’ll be delivered but here are their reg numbers, locations, and when they arrived at those locations;

A319
N338NV - VQQ - 10/4

A320
N236NV - BQN - 12/6
N237NV - LCQ - 12/20
N238NV - OSR - (VP-BWE) 8/17
N239NV - SVO - (VP-BWF) 9/19
N277NV - TPA - 10/1
N281NV - BQN - 10/14
N292NV - VQQ - 12/13
N293NV - GYR - 4/21
N294NV - GYR - 4/25
N295NV - GYR - 4/18

I don’t have any data on new-builds for 2020.

Thank you. I'm surprised April deliveries are not in service.

Back when I worked for G4 in 2016, they were looking into Mexican destinations from LAS, AZA, CVG, IND, AUS, and BNA. The only ones we (customer care) got word of was MEX, PVR, and CUN. Right before I left, a rumor also went around about SJD. Again, nothing was ever officially announced to us. The travel advisory committee had an open floor, so the "potential" flight map was open for people to see.

RL757PVD wrote:

What small stations are left... that could support G4 and don't have G4 or a ULCC within 90 minutes?.

I suppose that since G4 serves RFD that rules out a return of service to GYY despite the completed runway extension.

KarlB737 wrote:

RL757PVD wrote:

What small stations are left... that could support G4 and don't have G4 or a ULCC within 90 minutes?.

I suppose that since G4 serves RFD that rules out a return of service to GYY despite the completed runway extension.

To be fair RFD is nowhere near Chicago.

LVFlyer wrote:

Back when I worked for G4 in 2016, they were looking into Mexican destinations from LAS, AZA, CVG, IND, AUS, and BNA. The only ones we (customer care) got word of was MEX, PVR, and CUN. Right before I left, a rumor also went around about SJD. Again, nothing was ever officially announced to us. The travel advisory committee had an open floor, so the "potential" flight map was open for people to see.

I'm surprised MEX was mentioned. I don't view that as a market that they would enter but I could be wrong.

zackary747 wrote:

I'm surprised MEX was mentioned. I don't view that as a market that they would enter but I could be wrong.

While WN and B6 struggled to make MEX work without Mexican point-of-sale traffic, AA is able to make CLT-MEX and PHX-MEX nonstop service work with mostly US point-of-sale traffic. However, AA inherited the CLT-MEX and PHX-MEX nonstop routes through the AA-US merger. AA also has significantly more connecting feed on CLT-MEX than WN ever did on HOU-MEX due to AA's CLT hub being much bigger than WN's HOU focus city. AA also only operates 1 daily nonstop to MEX from CLT and PHX, whereas WN had 4 daily nonstops to MEX from HOU at its peak.

AA also doesn't have any nonstop competition on CLT-MEX or PHX-MEX, whereas WN HOU-MEX nonstop service was in competition with UA, AM, and 4O IAH-MEX nonstop service.

CLT and PHX have also had nonstop service to MEX for more than 10 years, whereas WN only served MEX nonstop from HOU for almost 3 1/2 years prior to pulling out of MEX.

While B6 had some connecting feed on FLL-MEX, B6's FLL-MEX nonstop service was in competition with AA, AM, 4O, and Y4 MIA-MEX nonstop service. B6 also faced nonstop competition from other airlines on its FLL-JFK and FLL-MCO nonstop routes.

While B6 didn't face nonstop competition on BOS-MEX after AM dropped BOS-MEX nonstop service, B6 had mostly US point-of-sale O&D traffic on BOS-MEX prior to B6 pulling out of MEX.

In order for G4 to make MEX work, G4 would need to serve MEX nonstop from U.S. cities that (a) have limited or no nonstop competition and (b) have enough demand for nonstop service to MEX without connecting feed. G4 also could capture more Mexican point-of-sale traffic by (a) having a website that allows Mexican customers to book G4 flights from MEX to the U.S. and (b) advertising its MEX to U.S. nonstop flights in the Mexico City market.

jplatts wrote:

zackary747 wrote:

I'm surprised MEX was mentioned. I don't view that as a market that they would enter but I could be wrong.

While WN and B6 struggled to make MEX work without Mexican point-of-sale traffic, AA is able to make CLT-MEX and PHX-MEX nonstop service work with mostly US point-of-sale traffic. However, AA inherited the CLT-MEX and PHX-MEX nonstop routes through the AA-US merger. AA also has significantly more connecting feed on CLT-MEX than WN ever did on HOU-MEX due to AA's CLT hub being much bigger than WN's HOU focus city. AA also only operates 1 daily nonstop to MEX from CLT and PHX, whereas WN had 4 daily nonstops to MEX from HOU at its peak.

AA also doesn't have any nonstop competition on CLT-MEX or PHX-MEX, whereas WN HOU-MEX nonstop service was in competition with UA, AM, and 4O IAH-MEX nonstop service.

CLT and PHX have also had nonstop service to MEX for more than 10 years, whereas WN only served MEX nonstop from HOU for almost 3 1/2 years prior to pulling out of MEX.

While B6 had some connecting feed on FLL-MEX, B6's FLL-MEX nonstop service was in competition with AA, AM, 4O, and Y4 MIA-MEX nonstop service. B6 also faced nonstop competition from other airlines on its FLL-JFK and FLL-MCO nonstop routes.

While B6 didn't face nonstop competition on BOS-MEX after AM dropped BOS-MEX nonstop service, B6 had mostly US point-of-sale O&D traffic on BOS-MEX prior to B6 pulling out of MEX.

In order for G4 to make MEX work, G4 would need to serve MEX nonstop from U.S. cities that (a) have limited or no nonstop competition and (b) have enough demand for nonstop service to MEX without connecting feed. G4 also could capture more Mexican point-of-sale traffic by (a) having a website that allows Mexican customers to book G4 flights from MEX to the U.S. and (b) advertising its MEX to U.S. nonstop flights in the Mexico City market.

What is MEX's slot situation? If G4 either can't get slots of dont want to pay for slots then MEX will probably not be in their initial offerings Mexico wise.

jplatts wrote:

zackary747 wrote:

I'm surprised MEX was mentioned. I don't view that as a market that they would enter but I could be wrong.

While WN and B6 struggled to make MEX work without Mexican point-of-sale traffic, AA is able to make CLT-MEX and PHX-MEX nonstop service work with mostly US point-of-sale traffic. However, AA inherited the CLT-MEX and PHX-MEX nonstop routes through the AA-US merger. AA also has significantly more connecting feed on CLT-MEX than WN ever did on HOU-MEX due to AA's CLT hub being much bigger than WN's HOU focus city. AA also only operates 1 daily nonstop to MEX from CLT and PHX, whereas WN had 4 daily nonstops to MEX from HOU at its peak.

AA also doesn't have any nonstop competition on CLT-MEX or PHX-MEX, whereas WN HOU-MEX nonstop service was in competition with UA, AM, and 4O IAH-MEX nonstop service.

CLT and PHX have also had nonstop service to MEX for more than 10 years, whereas WN only served MEX nonstop from HOU for almost 3 1/2 years prior to pulling out of MEX.

While B6 had some connecting feed on FLL-MEX, B6's FLL-MEX nonstop service was in competition with AA, AM, 4O, and Y4 MIA-MEX nonstop service. B6 also faced nonstop competition from other airlines on its FLL-JFK and FLL-MCO nonstop routes.

While B6 didn't face nonstop competition on BOS-MEX after AM dropped BOS-MEX nonstop service, B6 had mostly US point-of-sale O&D traffic on BOS-MEX prior to B6 pulling out of MEX.

In order for G4 to make MEX work, G4 would need to serve MEX nonstop from U.S. cities that (a) have limited or no nonstop competition and (b) have enough demand for nonstop service to MEX without connecting feed. G4 also could capture more Mexican point-of-sale traffic by (a) having a website that allows Mexican customers to book G4 flights from MEX to the U.S. and (b) advertising its MEX to U.S. nonstop flights in the Mexico City market.

Don't forget, American Airlines has had continuous service from the USA to Mexico City far longer than any other airline. Since 1943, if memory serves. The Mexican consumer knows who American Airlines is.

I mentioned this in another thread recently...

G4 has said that they can get more flying hours out of the Airbuses than the MDs and that’s allowing them to increase AC utilization.

However, it seems like they may be taking this too far. For example, the flight from PIE to ORF now leaves at 6:30am on Sunday. Leaving at 6am on a Sunday isn’t very conducive to travelers who are on a weekend getaway, which is what many of G4’s customers are.

What do y’all think? Is G4 getting too aggressive in their scheduling?

flybaby wrote:

What do y’all think? Is G4 getting too aggressive in their scheduling?

I think the problem with G4 is that they don't care about passenger convenience. That should be pretty obvious with some routes only being flown once a week.

If G4 were to make a play at the DFW metro area that might to consider flying in and out of Meacham Field just north of Fort Worth to offer an alternative to DFW airport.

dfwjim1 wrote:

If G4 were to make a play at the DFW metro area that might to consider flying in and out of Meacham Field just north of Fort Worth to offer an alternative to DFW airport.

Well... they applied for DFW to Mexico but nothing has been announced.

flybaby wrote:

I mentioned this in another thread recently...

G4 has said that they can get more flying hours out of the Airbuses than the MDs and that’s allowing them to increase AC utilization.

However, it seems like they may be taking this too far. For example, the flight from PIE to ORF now leaves at 6:30am on Sunday. Leaving at 6am on a Sunday isn’t very conducive to travelers who are on a weekend getaway, which is what many of G4’s customers are.

What do y’all think? Is G4 getting too aggressive in their scheduling?

If they are filling flights then no.

That said, I have had trips that I ruled out flying them home mostly based on the early return time when I want more of the day. I guess if it was a super early leave on a weekday, I could make it back in time to go to work. But early weekend flights are more of a no go.

astaz wrote:

airtrantpa wrote:

I would loved to see G4 offer more west coast services from PIE. TZ used to fly to LAX/LAS with thru service to Hawaii. Southeast Airlines, and Sunjet International flew to LAS from PIE, im not sure how successful they were, given not many people ever heard of those airlines before.

G4 did PIE/IWA for a while a year or two ago. Not sure if it was load or crew time related, but the route didn’t last long. Pretty sure a lot of future domestic G4 growth needs to be East-West flying. The route map is very North-South heavy.

The PIE/IWA route was the test for overnighting crews away from a base.

I just hope they show GSP some love! Haven’t seen anything new here in years.

dfwjim1 wrote:

If G4 were to make a play at the DFW metro area that might to consider flying in and out of Meacham Field just north of Fort Worth to offer an alternative to DFW airport.

I'll continue to believe that service like Allegiant out of McKinney would be at least a three run homer. They just need the facility to do it.

Just wanted to note a few recent G4 policy changes:

The cost of TripFlex has more than doubled. This appears to be an attempt to make the new “bundle” offering more appealing.

Military benefits reduced:
-Checked baggage allowance reduced from 3 to 2 pieces.
-No more free reserved seats.
-Tighter definition of who is “military”.
-Spouses and dependents no longer receive military benefits unless they are traveling with the service member on the same itinerary.

LVFlyer wrote:

flybaby wrote:

What do y’all think? Is G4 getting too aggressive in their scheduling?

I think the problem with G4 is that they don't care about passenger convenience. That should be pretty obvious with some routes only being flown once a week.

I have never seen a G4 route that runs once a week. Twice a week yes, but not once.

It's not uncommon for ULCCs to fly a route 1-2x a week. G4 and F9 does it. NK does some 3x weekly. Hell, even WN (regular LCC) has some 1x weekly flights.

zackary747 wrote:

LVFlyer wrote:

flybaby wrote:

What do y’all think? Is G4 getting too aggressive in their scheduling?

I think the problem with G4 is that they don't care about passenger convenience. That should be pretty obvious with some routes only being flown once a week.

I have never seen a G4 route that runs once a week. Twice a week yes, but not once.

It's not uncommon for ULCCs to fly a route 1-2x a week. G4 and F9 does it. NK does some 3x weekly. Hell, even WN (regular LCC) has some 1x weekly flights.

They do some of the leaner shoulder seasons as 1x in some markets, but if its 1x its definitely a sat or a Sunday. I.e. OGS-SFB is normally 2x (3x in the spring peak), but goes 1x in January and in late/may early june.

Oak-mem was 1x a week last year.

RL757PVD wrote:

zackary747 wrote:

LVFlyer wrote:

I think the problem with G4 is that they don't care about passenger convenience. That should be pretty obvious with some routes only being flown once a week.

I have never seen a G4 route that runs once a week. Twice a week yes, but not once.

It's not uncommon for ULCCs to fly a route 1-2x a week. G4 and F9 does it. NK does some 3x weekly. Hell, even WN (regular LCC) has some 1x weekly flights.

They do some of the leaner shoulder seasons as 1x in some markets, but if its 1x its definitely a sat or a Sunday. I.e. OGS-SFB is normally 2x (3x in the spring peak), but goes 1x in January and in late/may early june.

Interesting. Thanks for the info. Well, I am sure they do that because the market can't handle any more frequency during that time of the year. Much better having G4 do that than putting the route completely seasonal.

zackary747 wrote:

RL757PVD wrote:

zackary747 wrote:

I have never seen a G4 route that runs once a week. Twice a week yes, but not once.

It's not uncommon for ULCCs to fly a route 1-2x a week. G4 and F9 does it. NK does some 3x weekly. Hell, even WN (regular LCC) has some 1x weekly flights.

They do some of the leaner shoulder seasons as 1x in some markets, but if its 1x its definitely a sat or a Sunday. I.e. OGS-SFB is normally 2x (3x in the spring peak), but goes 1x in January and in late/may early june.

Interesting. Thanks for the info. Well, I am sure they do that because the market can't handle any more frequency during that time of the year. Much better having G4 do that than putting the route completely seasonal.

the 1x frequency has allowed them to stay in some seasonal markets longer or avoid a hiatus during shorter weaker periods (may-early June is weak for Orlando) and/or minimize losses such as the first few weeks of January right after the holidays.

GRR and SDF have route announcements tomorrow. Could it be Allegiant announcing new routes tomorrow or someone else?

zackary747 wrote:

GRR and SDF have route announcements tomorrow. Could it be Allegiant announcing new routes tomorrow or someone else?

Hoping it’s a different carrier, but since two new routes are coming to GRR it’s probably Allegiant. Could GRR-SDF be one of them?

My only question is, what other city warrants service from GRR that isn’t already served?

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:

zackary747 wrote:

GRR and SDF have route announcements tomorrow. Could it be Allegiant announcing new routes tomorrow or someone else?

Hoping it’s a different carrier, but since two new routes are coming to GRR it’s probably Allegiant. Could GRR-SDF be one of them?

My only question is, what other city warrants service from GRR that isn’t already served?

I don't see GRR-SDF.

Does GRR have a customs facility? G4 has been looking at Mexico. Also can't count out F9 possibly adding stuff tomorrow instead.

If G4 is announcing their planned Mexico expansion tomorrow I can see some other cities making announcements tomorrow as well such as IND, CVG, and PIT.

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:

zackary747 wrote:

GRR and SDF have route announcements tomorrow. Could it be Allegiant announcing new routes tomorrow or someone else?

Hoping it’s a different carrier, but since two new routes are coming to GRR it’s probably Allegiant. Could GRR-SDF be one of them?

My only question is, what other city warrants service from GRR that isn’t already served?

Just took a look at G4s route map. GRR is missing VPS, MYR, and CHS. Any of those could be announced from a domestic point of view.

SDF is missing JAX and CHS.

Bozeman airport announcement tomorrow.

I'm convinced it's Allegiant now.

I see several new routes up on G4's route map, including AVL-MDW, AVL-HOU, AVL-BOS, AVL-AUS, GRR-BOS, TYS-BOS, VPS-BOS, TYS-MDW, DSM-MDW, MDW-VPS, MDW-SAV, BZN-BNA, HOU-TYS, HOU-SAV, HOU-VPS, BNA-GFK, BNA-FAR, BNA-FSD, BNA-TUL, BNA-PIA, and BNA-FNT. There may be others as well.

Massive expansion.

Finally adding Chicago Midway and going right for the Chicago market. Good for them - but very surprised about the Des Moines service. Not that I have anything against it - just a surprising addition is all.

The Nashville additions are also particularly interesting.

This definitely isn't your grandpa's Allegiant anymore.

Allegiant will be adding BZN, FAR, GFK, FSD, GSO, ORF, TUL, and PIT from BNA....

Wow, what an expansion. Did not see the extent of this one coming. For TYS I see: MYR, BOS, MDW, AUS and HOU.