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mkorpal333
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:30 am

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:59 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
https://twitter.com/united/status/1225821637012021248

The rendering of the outdoor patio in the terminal is interesting.


Fantastic use of FS98.
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 933
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:29 am

intotheair wrote:
I still can't imagine that would be the case. DIA also has to sort out DL's space because they will be losing all of their gates to UA. It's not like the airport is going to approve expansions for UA and WN but then leave F9 and DL shorthanded. There must be another solution coming.


DEN1895 wrote:
It is not really about F9 or DL expansion, UA is taking 11 gates from F9 and DL on A, 5 from F9 and 6 from DL. After UA moves out of the A East ground load facility that will give F9 the same number of gates but DL is still without a home. Without reducing the number of gates from everyone on A concourse I don't see a way that everyone currently on A can stay.


The simple solution is AA/DL move to the east side of A and F9 uses the temporary ground boarding gates on A. I think there's enough room to make it work until more gates are built, which will be needed. It'll be tight, but WN needs the gates.
 
lessredtape
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:57 am

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:37 am

are there any airports in Denver region that could take an A220 or Breeze e-jets, that couldn't take any bigger aircraft such as A319/B737 ?
 
DEN1895
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:21 am

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:48 am

BNAMealer wrote:

The simple solution is AA/DL move to the east side of A and F9 uses the temporary ground boarding gates on A. I think there's enough room to make it work until more gates are built, which will be needed. It'll be tight, but WN needs the gates.


Unless every airline on A agrees to reduce their gate gates considerably there would be no way for them to work it out.
F9 would go from 9>6
AA 5>4
DL 6>4

While some flights can be accommodated on the city gates, all of the Mexican flights and Jet Blue, Sun Country and Allegiant, and DL,AA, and F9 all use those gates during the day already. While UA moving off the city gates would free up some space, there is no way they could accommodate all 7 gates worth of flights( probably 50+ flights). All other airlines besides UA and WN at the airport would have to reduce their flights to accommodate the growth.
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 933
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:59 am

DEN1895 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:

The simple solution is AA/DL move to the east side of A and F9 uses the temporary ground boarding gates on A. I think there's enough room to make it work until more gates are built, which will be needed. It'll be tight, but WN needs the gates.


Unless every airline on A agrees to reduce their gate gates considerably there would be no way for them to work it out.
F9 would go from 9>6
AA 5>4
DL 6>4

While some flights can be accommodated on the city gates, all of the Mexican flights and Jet Blue, Sun Country and Allegiant, and DL,AA, and F9 all use those gates during the day already. While UA moving off the city gates would free up some space, there is no way they could accommodate all 7 gates worth of flights( probably 50+ flights). All other airlines besides UA and WN at the airport would have to reduce their flights to accommodate the growth.


SY and G4 operate less than daily irregular flights so that’s not an issue. But I think UA should have waited to take the 11 existing gates on A until it is built out to the east.
 
trexel94
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:44 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:12 am

lessredtape wrote:
are there any airports in Denver region that could take an A220 or Breeze e-jets, that couldn't take any bigger aircraft such as A319/B737 ?


Rocky Mountain Airport was mentioned in an article recently regarding possible destinations.

Centennial Airport would be best since it’s closest to the city, surrounded by upper class suburbs and tech offices but I do believe there is an ordinance against commercial flights there. Although the runways are sufficient, I don’t think either airfield is arranged to handle regular commercial flights (i.e no TSA, no baggage handling etc). I’m curious to know how much investment is needed for the aforementioned.

Both airports can handle mid-sized commercial jets.
 
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intotheair
Posts: 1896
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:41 am

trexel94 wrote:
lessredtape wrote:
are there any airports in Denver region that could take an A220 or Breeze e-jets, that couldn't take any bigger aircraft such as A319/B737 ?


Rocky Mountain Airport was mentioned in an article recently regarding possible destinations.

Centennial Airport would be best since it’s closest to the city, surrounded by upper class suburbs and tech offices but I do believe there is an ordinance against commercial flights there. Although the runways are sufficient, I don’t think either airfield is arranged to handle regular commercial flights (i.e no TSA, no baggage handling etc). I’m curious to know how much investment is needed for the aforementioned.

Both airports can handle mid-sized commercial jets.


DEN is like ATL – there's not much appetite for any secondary airports. The biggest service that's ever happened was probably when G4 served FNL. Centennial is politically unviable, and Front Range Airport has no geographic advantage over DIA. Rocky Mountain might be possible, but again, it doesn't have much over DIA, and nobody has ever had much success trying anything scheduled out of there. Also, COS is never going to be a secondary airport for Denver, despite what some out of state armchair CEOs may think. DIA is still relatively easy for airlines to enter and add service (especially compared to places like LAX and SFO), and I don't think that's going to change for a long time.

With that said, I did grow up not too far away from Centennial and my parents' house is under a flight path, and I've always wanted to fly in or out of it, even if it's only in a Challenger.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
lessredtape
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:57 am

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:30 am

intotheair wrote:
trexel94 wrote:
lessredtape wrote:
are there any airports in Denver region that could take an A220 or Breeze e-jets, that couldn't take any bigger aircraft such as A319/B737 ?


Rocky Mountain Airport was mentioned in an article recently regarding possible destinations.

Centennial Airport would be best since it’s closest to the city, surrounded by upper class suburbs and tech offices but I do believe there is an ordinance against commercial flights there. Although the runways are sufficient, I don’t think either airfield is arranged to handle regular commercial flights (i.e no TSA, no baggage handling etc). I’m curious to know how much investment is needed for the aforementioned.

Both airports can handle mid-sized commercial jets.


DEN is like ATL – there's not much appetite for any secondary airports. The biggest service that's ever happened was probably when G4 served FNL. Centennial is politically unviable, and Front Range Airport has no geographic advantage over DIA. Rocky Mountain might be possible, but again, it doesn't have much over DIA, and nobody has ever had much success trying anything scheduled out of there. Also, COS is never going to be a secondary airport for Denver, despite what some out of state armchair CEOs may think. DIA is still relatively easy for airlines to enter and add service (especially compared to places like LAX and SFO), and I don't think that's going to change for a long time.

With that said, I did grow up not too far away from Centennial and my parents' house is under a flight path, and I've always wanted to fly in or out of it, even if it's only in a Challenger.
DIA is one crowded mess. For arrivals it takes good 1/2 hour or more, just to get from gate to rental cars. For departures, have been at DIA many times, where there seems to be a 1000 people in front of me trying to get through TSA.

Never been to Front Range airport, but a quick search on maps, seems to show same time by car from downtown Denver, so if it can handle Breeze jets, it seems like the perfect airport for Breeze. Most pax & esp. business types, want to get in & out of an airport as fast as physically possible.

When in Colorado, we always try to use EGE, as often there is no queue(line) for TSA whatsoever & no one is stressed. Could Front Range airport be like EGE ?

Don't quite understand the American idea of queuing for everything (lining up). Australians don't line up, they go elsewhere, especially if trying to hand over $$$.
 
jhsusman
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Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:06 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:00 am

United is going to have a lot of slack with their widebodies with the significant cutbacks in their Asian flying due to the coronavirus. I wonder if they would consider a seasonal experiment from DEN to CDG or AMS using some of their under-utilized widebodies. It would need to happen pretty quick as summer is coming soon. . .
 
rph99
Posts: 127
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 3:27 am

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:40 am

Where are last years numbers? Dying to see how close the DEN got to 70 million passengers in 2019. I’m thinking 68.5M-69.5M is what they’ll report.
 
DEN1895
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:21 am

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:46 pm

rph99 wrote:
Where are last years numbers? Dying to see how close the DEN got to 70 million passengers in 2019. I’m thinking 68.5M-69.5M is what they’ll report.


Numbers just posted, looks like just over 69 million.

Link: http://flydenver.com/about/financials/passenger_traffic

I will break down the numbers more later today.
 
DEN1895
Posts: 178
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:52 pm

End of year numbers are in, final count for the year is 69,015,703 which is a 7.0% increase from last year(4.5 million more passengers). Here is a nice graphic highlighting the year the airport put together.

Image

Increases are posted below for each major airline:

Airline ...DEC ...YTD
UA .......13.7% ...10.0%
WN ......6.8% ....0.9%
F9 .......4.2% ....13.7%
DL .......11.5% ....6.1%
AA .......13.8% ...0.9%
BA .......3.5% .....3.3%
LH .......16.0% ....9.2%
NK .......34.1% ...23.7%

-For the year the amount of connecting traffic actually shrank from 35.8% to 35.6% showing that even with all of the new flights added, most of these flights are filled with O&D traffic.
-It looks like Hawaiian operated one flight to the airport in December as they recorded 321 passengers, maybe one day they will have regular scheduled flights. :smile:
 
diatraveler
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2001 12:16 am

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:56 pm

DEN1895 wrote:
End of year numbers are in, final count for the year is 69,015,703 which is a 7.0% increase from last year(4.5 million more passengers). Here is a nice graphic highlighting the year the airport put together.

Image

Increases are posted below for each major airline:

Airline ...DEC ...YTD
UA .......13.7% ...10.0%
WN ......6.8% ....0.9%
F9 .......4.2% ....13.7%
DL .......11.5% ....6.1%
AA .......13.8% ...0.9%
BA .......3.5% .....3.3%
LH .......16.0% ....9.2%
NK .......34.1% ...23.7%

-For the year the amount of connecting traffic actually shrank from 35.8% to 35.6% showing that even with all of the new flights added, most of these flights are filled with O&D traffic.
-It looks like Hawaiian operated one flight to the airport in December as they recorded 321 passengers, maybe one day they will have regular scheduled flights. :smile:


The Hawaiian flight was the Oakland Raiders charter flight when they payed the Broncos in Denver. The O&D statistics are really interesting. A lot of United's future growth will probably increase the connecting ratio.
 
BNAMealer
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:10 am

DEN1895 wrote:
End of year numbers are in, final count for the year is 69,015,703 which is a 7.0% increase from last year(4.5 million more passengers). Here is a nice graphic highlighting the year the airport put together.

Image

Increases are posted below for each major airline:

Airline ...DEC ...YTD
UA .......13.7% ...10.0%
WN ......6.8% ....0.9%
F9 .......4.2% ....13.7%
DL .......11.5% ....6.1%
AA .......13.8% ...0.9%
BA .......3.5% .....3.3%
LH .......16.0% ....9.2%
NK .......34.1% ...23.7%

-For the year the amount of connecting traffic actually shrank from 35.8% to 35.6% showing that even with all of the new flights added, most of these flights are filled with O&D traffic.
-It looks like Hawaiian operated one flight to the airport in December as they recorded 321 passengers, maybe one day they will have regular scheduled flights. :smile:


Probably would’ve been even higher if not for the MAX grounding. That really hampered WN’s growth.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5042
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:16 am

ericm2031 wrote:
I know UA is bigger in ORD, but does UA connect more passengers through DEN or ORD? I only ask because I'm wondering if their plan is to make DEN more of a connecting hub where they have the ability to add tons of flights, while using it's more limited opportunities at ORD for O&D.
ow their vision,
And is it still true that WN gets more O&D in DEN than UA? I vaguely remember that, but can't remember if those were excluding regionals or not.

with ORD coming under construction? the O&D expansion ,may be limited for the near future DEN can and very well may surpass in UAORD. DEN has ben crown Jewell in UA's route network for Many years and now their vision is being seen by most everybody. I thought they got a raw deal when Pena closed Stapleton. But closing Stapleton?
Was the Best deal for UA and Denver.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:08 am

Looks like Starbucks is going in in front of New Belgium between B32 and B28
 
OKCDCA
Posts: 246
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:50 am

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:13 am

airbazar wrote:
For what it's worth, we flew to DEN for a skiing vacation over the Xmas holiday period and on the return used the remote bag drop by the Pikes Peak parking lot. That has to be the best kept secret at DIA. It made for the best airport experience I have ever had in the U.S. DIA should upgrade that from "a shack on the side of the road" to a "real" facility and other airports should adopt a similar service. Being able to drop off our bags before dropping off the rental car and not having to schlep heavy luggage on the shuttle and skipping the long bag drop lines at the terminal was such a liberating and stress free experience. Well done DIA.

Used this “shack on the side of the road” (and it’s definitely a shack) and agree it was absolutely phenomenal.

However, I checked two bags: a regular bag and my golf clubs. I was flying DEN-LAX-SAN on AA and my regular bag made the DEN-LAX leg but my sticks ended up going DEN-PHX-SAN two hours later. I’ve gotten used to my sticks getting additional screening but they always make the flight. Does anyone know if golf clubs and sporting equipment in general using this service at DIA are open to additional screening and should require additional time? Or is this simply an AA screw up?
 
panam330
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:15 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
Looks like Starbucks is going in in front of New Belgium between B32 and B28

And a Snooze and Shake Shack on the B mezzanine. I can’t wait for those.
 
303dk
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:03 pm

What’s being built upstairs by A32?
 
jplatts
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:22 pm

It was mentioned in the Rest of New England Aviation Thread that F9 has suspended DEN-PVD nonstop service indefinitely, and that post can be found at https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1438013&p=22021213#p22021213.

I had mentioned WN re-adding DEN-PVD nonstop service as a possibility as there is enough demand for the return of WN DEN-PVD nonstop service with the amount of O&D that is there between DEN and PVD and with the significant amount of passengers that connect to destinations west of the Rockies from PVD.

WN would probably be able to easily fill DEN-PVD nonstop flights if it re-adds DEN-PVD nonstop service due to the amount of demand that exists to Denver, Vegas, Phoenix, Seattle, the San Francisco Bay Area, and Greater Los Angeles from PVD.
 
fry530
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:03 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:55 pm

I got an email saying that the city council approved the go-ahead for the completion of Phase I of the Great Hall Project.

As per the email:

"This week, Denver City Council approved the Hensel Phelps general contractor/construction management contract for the completion of Phase I of the Great Hall Project at Denver International Airport (DEN). The $195 million contract will allow DEN to resume work on the critical project that will enhance security, improve operational efficiency and increase capacity.

“When we terminated the original contract for the project in August 2019, we promised that construction would resume in Q1 2020,” said DEN CEO Kim Day. “With the approval of this contract, we will be able to fulfill that promise, moving one step closer to a better Great Hall.”

Hensel Phelps and its subcontractors will work on Phase I of the project, which will still take place in the center of the terminal. Specifically, crews will complete demolition, construct new ticket lobbies on Level 6, widen the balconies, upgrade and modernize signage and add new restrooms.

Work is expected to begin in March once the Hensel Phelps contract is fully executed however demolition is underway now. Phase I is scheduled to be completed by Q4 2021. Hensel Phelps is a Greeley, Colorado-based firm with expertise in development, construction and facility service. DEN will share plans for the remainder of the project later this summer."

Let's hope this second try goes much more smoothly.
319 320 32N 321 332 333 722 733 735 73G 738 739 744 752 763 772 77W CR2 CR7 Q400 E145 E170 DC10 MD80
AA BA BD CO DL EI F9 HP NW NZ UA U2 WN Y4
 
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intotheair
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:29 am

On the agenda for the next Business, Arts, Workforce, & Aviation Services Committee meeting on Wednesday is a contract to give Southwest 40 gates (24 existing, 16 new). Maybe at the meeting, we'll get more color on where F9 and DL will end up.

https://denver.legistar.com/Legislation ... s=&Search=

On a smaller note, that same committee also approved plans to consolidate the rental car facilities. I originally was under the impression that this meant that DEN was going to build a consolidated rental car facility like PHX (and how DEN was originally going to have it). But instead, it just means that the rental car brands that all have the same parent company will be moving next to one another.

https://denver.legistar.com/Legislation ... s=&Search=
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
BNAMealer
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:32 pm

intotheair wrote:
On the agenda for the next Business, Arts, Workforce, & Aviation Services Committee meeting on Wednesday is a contract to give Southwest 40 gates (24 existing, 16 new). Maybe at the meeting, we'll get more color on where F9 and DL will end up.

https://denver.legistar.com/Legislation ... s=&Search=

On a smaller note, that same committee also approved plans to consolidate the rental car facilities. I originally was under the impression that this meant that DEN was going to build a consolidated rental car facility like PHX (and how DEN was originally going to have it). But instead, it just means that the rental car brands that all have the same parent company will be moving next to one another.

https://denver.legistar.com/Legislation ... s=&Search=


Good for WN, they should get all the gates they request as well. It will be interesting to see how they utilize them, 40 gates is unprecedented for them at any airport. DEN should be their first 300 flight station.

I will be interested to see how they do accommodate F9 in particular.
 
airfrnt
Posts: 2174
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:26 pm

The interesting bit there is that they are adding 50 EV charging stations in the new lot... right now there are nowhere near enough EV spots at the airport - I would hope that these or some new stations open up to the general public soon.
 
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Frontier14
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:42 pm

intotheair wrote:
On the agenda for the next Business, Arts, Workforce, & Aviation Services Committee meeting on Wednesday is a contract to give Southwest 40 gates (24 existing, 16 new). Maybe at the meeting, we'll get more color on where F9 and DL will end up

https://denver.legistar.com/Legislation ... s=&Search=


Yes, it will be interesting where Frontier, Delta and American's gates are eventually allocated to. There may not be an immediate move from their present gate locations. I have heard via the grapevine that F9 may want an additional three gates beyond the current nine they have. Perhaps these will be hard stands at A56, 60 and 62.

With the Denver City Council recently giving United the playing field, it may be that the east end of concourse A and the west end of concourse C will need to be expanded out to their full potential sooner than later. The current construction fiasco makes this a questionable timeline.

Frontier 14
 
BNAMealer
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:53 pm

Frontier14 wrote:
intotheair wrote:
On the agenda for the next Business, Arts, Workforce, & Aviation Services Committee meeting on Wednesday is a contract to give Southwest 40 gates (24 existing, 16 new). Maybe at the meeting, we'll get more color on where F9 and DL will end up

https://denver.legistar.com/Legislation ... s=&Search=


Yes, it will be interesting where Frontier, Delta and American's gates are eventually allocated to. There may not be an immediate move from their present gate locations. I have heard via the grapevine that F9 may want an additional three gates beyond the current nine they have. Perhaps these will be hard stands at A56, 60 and 62.

With the Denver City Council recently giving United the playing field, it may be that the east end of concourse A and the west end of concourse C will need to be expanded out to their full potential sooner than later. The current construction fiasco makes this a questionable timeline.

Frontier 14


I think Kim Day hinted building out the rest of A & C was coming in the article regarding UA's lease.

I'd build out another 10 gates onto C west and move F9 there. Then Concourse C would be 55 gates with 12 going to F9, 3 going to NK and 40 going to WN. AS should move to A to colocate with their future oneworld partner AA, then build out A east with another 12 gates.
 
CALMSP
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:31 pm

expanding C west has plenty of room, however, the airport will then also need another deice pad. As it stands already, there isn't enough deicing pads as it is.
 
N649DL
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Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:29 am

lessredtape wrote:
intotheair wrote:
trexel94 wrote:

Rocky Mountain Airport was mentioned in an article recently regarding possible destinations.

Centennial Airport would be best since it’s closest to the city, surrounded by upper class suburbs and tech offices but I do believe there is an ordinance against commercial flights there. Although the runways are sufficient, I don’t think either airfield is arranged to handle regular commercial flights (i.e no TSA, no baggage handling etc). I’m curious to know how much investment is needed for the aforementioned.

Both airports can handle mid-sized commercial jets.


DEN is like ATL – there's not much appetite for any secondary airports. The biggest service that's ever happened was probably when G4 served FNL. Centennial is politically unviable, and Front Range Airport has no geographic advantage over DIA. Rocky Mountain might be possible, but again, it doesn't have much over DIA, and nobody has ever had much success trying anything scheduled out of there. Also, COS is never going to be a secondary airport for Denver, despite what some out of state armchair CEOs may think. DIA is still relatively easy for airlines to enter and add service (especially compared to places like LAX and SFO), and I don't think that's going to change for a long time.

With that said, I did grow up not too far away from Centennial and my parents' house is under a flight path, and I've always wanted to fly in or out of it, even if it's only in a Challenger.
DIA is one crowded mess. For arrivals it takes good 1/2 hour or more, just to get from gate to rental cars. For departures, have been at DIA many times, where there seems to be a 1000 people in front of me trying to get through TSA.

Never been to Front Range airport, but a quick search on maps, seems to show same time by car from downtown Denver, so if it can handle Breeze jets, it seems like the perfect airport for Breeze. Most pax & esp. business types, want to get in & out of an airport as fast as physically possible.

When in Colorado, we always try to use EGE, as often there is no queue(line) for TSA whatsoever & no one is stressed. Could Front Range airport be like EGE ?

Don't quite understand the American idea of queuing for everything (lining up). Australians don't line up, they go elsewhere, especially if trying to hand over $$$.


Try going from Terminal A via the land bridge and finding your car in the middle of the massive Long Term Parking lot via narrow escalators and elevators and lack of signage at night. It would take me over an hour to find my car even when I took photos of the specific row I parked in before I got on the plane. If I didn't do that there would've been no way I would've found it. That lot is so poorly lit at night (although cheap). This was a few years ago when I lived in Denver, but my biggest gripes at DEN are lack of lack of signage and narrow corridors on escalators and in restrooms. The big secret at DEN is knowing how to use the elevators to your advantage instead. The TSA and the slow moving goons that have never flown before and moving through security to fly F9 were also very annoying too. Overall as clean as DEN is, it was still a rather annoying airport to deal with while living there (not connecting in.)
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8303
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:52 am

lessredtape wrote:
Never been to Front Range airport, but a quick search on maps, seems to show same time by car from downtown Denver, so if it can handle Breeze jets, it seems like the perfect airport for Breeze. Most pax & esp. business types, want to get in & out of an airport as fast as physically possible.

When in Colorado, we always try to use EGE, as often there is no queue(line) for TSA whatsoever & no one is stressed. Could Front Range airport be like EGE ?

Don't quite understand the American idea of queuing for everything (lining up). Australians don't line up, they go elsewhere, especially if trying to hand over $$$.


Business travelers want a high non-stop destination count (to avoid time wasted in connecting), and frequency. DEN has more than 2x the non-stop destinations of SYD.
 
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ADent
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:28 am

Frontier14 wrote:
Yes, it will be interesting where Frontier, Delta and American's gates are eventually allocated to. There may not be an immediate move from their present gate locations.

Per the contract posted on City Council's web site United takes possession:
A New Gates - "the end of the fourth quarter of 2021"
A Existing Gates - "the end of the fourth quarter of 2021"
 
xjetflyer2001
Posts: 275
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:20 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:40 pm

Frontier 14[/quote]

(I think Kim Day hinted building out the rest of A & C was coming in the article regarding UA's lease.

I'd build out another 10 gates onto C west and move F9 there. Then Concourse C would be 55 gates with 12 going to F9, 3 going to NK and 40 going to WN. AS should move to A to colocate with their future oneworld partner AA, then build out A east with another 12 gates.[/quote])

I wonder why DEN even wasted the money on the temporary gates on A East in the first place instead of just building out A East from the start? Now seems like there will be a mess with gate space on A.
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 933
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:51 pm

xjetflyer2001 wrote:
I wonder why DEN even wasted the money on the temporary gates on A East in the first place instead of just building out A East from the start? Now seems like there will be a mess with gate space on A.


That’s a good question. Considering how airport management has botched almost every aspect of this expansion/renovation thus far, it’s clear they didn’t think everything through when planning.

To be fair though, I don’t think anyone anticipated UA wanting as many gates as they got on A. Had they known that ahead of time, I think A east would have been included in this plan.
 
User avatar
Frontier14
Posts: 673
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:14 am

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:19 pm

ADent wrote:
Frontier14 wrote:
Yes, it will be interesting where Frontier, Delta and American's gates are eventually allocated to. There may not be an immediate move from their present gate locations.

Per the contract posted on City Council's web site United takes possession:
A New Gates - "the end of the fourth quarter of 2021"
A Existing Gates - "the end of the fourth quarter of 2021"


Thanks for the updated info from the new agreement. This is more realistic.

Frontier 14
 
DEN1895
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:21 am

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:14 pm

airfrnt wrote:
The interesting bit there is that they are adding 50 EV charging stations in the new lot... right now there are nowhere near enough EV spots at the airport - I would hope that these or some new stations open up to the general public soon.


The new Ground Transportation lot being built with the Pena reconstruction project will also have EV charging points for Uber/Lyft drivers, I have heard there are plans to add quite a few more throughout over the next several years.
 
DEN1895
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:21 am

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:24 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
xjetflyer2001 wrote:
I wonder why DEN even wasted the money on the temporary gates on A East in the first place instead of just building out A East from the start? Now seems like there will be a mess with gate space on A.


That’s a good question. Considering how airport management has botched almost every aspect of this expansion/renovation thus far, it’s clear they didn’t think everything through when planning.

To be fair though, I don’t think anyone anticipated UA wanting as many gates as they got on A. Had they known that ahead of time, I think A east would have been included in this plan.


The temporary facility had to be built as UA was loosing 9 gates while they reconstructed the East side of B. It was always designed as a flexible space to move airlines to during construction, but it was unknown if UA or F9 was moving down there. They actually did a good job when planning it as it was built in a way that allows A to be expanded to the East while the temporary facility is still in operation, if you look at it on Google maps you can see how no part of the building is directly East of A currently.

Besides the Great Hall which everyone agrees is a mess all other construction projects are going as planned at the airport, all concourse expansions are on or ahead of schedule and on budget.
 
BNAMealer
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Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:38 pm

DEN1895 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
xjetflyer2001 wrote:
I wonder why DEN even wasted the money on the temporary gates on A East in the first place instead of just building out A East from the start? Now seems like there will be a mess with gate space on A.


That’s a good question. Considering how airport management has botched almost every aspect of this expansion/renovation thus far, it’s clear they didn’t think everything through when planning.

To be fair though, I don’t think anyone anticipated UA wanting as many gates as they got on A. Had they known that ahead of time, I think A east would have been included in this plan.


The temporary facility had to be built as UA was loosing 9 gates while they reconstructed the East side of B. It was always designed as a flexible space to move airlines to during construction, but it was unknown if UA or F9 was moving down there. They actually did a good job when planning it as it was built in a way that allows A to be expanded to the East while the temporary facility is still in operation, if you look at it on Google maps you can see how no part of the building is directly East of A currently.

Besides the Great Hall which everyone agrees is a mess all other construction projects are going as planned at the airport, all concourse expansions are on or ahead of schedule and on budget.


Indeed, but if they knew UA was going to want almost all of A west from the get go, building out the remainder of A east should have been included. Also, to my knowledge, the concourse expansion didn’t address renovating the existing portions (other than the bathrooms) to match the decor of the new portions. They spent too much time on the Great Hall and not enough on the concourses IMO.
 
DEN1895
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:21 am

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:15 pm

BNAMealer wrote:

Indeed, but if they knew UA was going to want almost all of A west from the get go, building out the remainder of A east should have been included. Also, to my knowledge, the concourse expansion didn’t address renovating the existing portions (other than the bathrooms) to match the decor of the new portions. They spent too much time on the Great Hall and not enough on the concourses IMO.


I agree that more needs to be done modernize the concourses the biggest obstacle that the airport has run into keeping the CPE low while doing a massive list of projects with most of them focuses on expansion(If you want the full list I am happy to provide it). One fact that doesn't help the airport is that they are responsible for more of the concourse than other airports. For example at most other UA hubs United is responsible for everything in the concourse from floor to ceiling, if you look at Newark or LA UA payed to update all of the areas outside the gate areas. At DEN the airlines only leases the space up to the central walkway area reducing their cost and putting all of the responsibility back on the airport. I am not sure why the airlines don't work harder to update these areas, WN has replaced some chairs and gate agent desks while adding charging stations. UA's gate areas look the same as when the airport opened, they even brought over some of the chairs from Stapleton which is why B has different chairs than C.

In regard to what is being updated on the existing portions of the concourses they are updating the restrooms, conveyances (moving walkways, escalators, elevators), signing, and the concessions. As mentioned above they are adding Starbucks near B32 and A30. A Con will have the biggest changes coming with the food court being replaced and several new restaurants being added over the next two years. I believe they said over the next 5 years they wanted to remodel or replace most of the concessions across the airport which will help in the modernization efforts, while not costing the airport anything as the concessions pay the cost.

I wish they would just update the flooring and seating along with a few other cosmetics updates throughout the existing concourses as it would make a huge difference. I have heard that anything like that will have to wait until after all the expansions projects are complete however.
 
HardeesBiscuit
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:46 am

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:06 am

N649DL wrote:
Try going from Terminal A via the land bridge and finding your car in the middle of the massive Long Term Parking lot via narrow escalators and elevators and lack of signage at night. It would take me over an hour to find my car even when I took photos of the specific row I parked in before I got on the plane. If I didn't do that there would've been no way I would've found it. That lot is so poorly lit at night (although cheap). This was a few years ago when I lived in Denver, but my biggest gripes at DEN are lack of lack of signage and narrow corridors on escalators and in restrooms. The big secret at DEN is knowing how to use the elevators to your advantage instead. The TSA and the slow moving goons that have never flown before and moving through security to fly F9 were also very annoying too. Overall as clean as DEN is, it was still a rather annoying airport to deal with while living there (not connecting in.)


???
park car.
"OK Google, save my parking spot"
"OK, I'll save a map of where you parked."
...goes on trip...
"OK Google, navigate to my parking spot"
 
N649DL
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:23 am

HardeesBiscuit wrote:
N649DL wrote:
Try going from Terminal A via the land bridge and finding your car in the middle of the massive Long Term Parking lot via narrow escalators and elevators and lack of signage at night. It would take me over an hour to find my car even when I took photos of the specific row I parked in before I got on the plane. If I didn't do that there would've been no way I would've found it. That lot is so poorly lit at night (although cheap). This was a few years ago when I lived in Denver, but my biggest gripes at DEN are lack of lack of signage and narrow corridors on escalators and in restrooms. The big secret at DEN is knowing how to use the elevators to your advantage instead. The TSA and the slow moving goons that have never flown before and moving through security to fly F9 were also very annoying too. Overall as clean as DEN is, it was still a rather annoying airport to deal with while living there (not connecting in.)


???
park car.
"OK Google, save my parking spot"
"OK, I'll save a map of where you parked."
...goes on trip...
"OK Google, navigate to my parking spot"


I (regrettably) have an iPhone and it's less user friendly than that. My complaint is the layout of the DEN airport is obnoxious, much like the drive to the mountains from that airport.
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 933
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:12 am

DEN1895 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:

Indeed, but if they knew UA was going to want almost all of A west from the get go, building out the remainder of A east should have been included. Also, to my knowledge, the concourse expansion didn’t address renovating the existing portions (other than the bathrooms) to match the decor of the new portions. They spent too much time on the Great Hall and not enough on the concourses IMO.


I agree that more needs to be done modernize the concourses the biggest obstacle that the airport has run into keeping the CPE low while doing a massive list of projects with most of them focuses on expansion(If you want the full list I am happy to provide it). One fact that doesn't help the airport is that they are responsible for more of the concourse than other airports. For example at most other UA hubs United is responsible for everything in the concourse from floor to ceiling, if you look at Newark or LA UA payed to update all of the areas outside the gate areas. At DEN the airlines only leases the space up to the central walkway area reducing their cost and putting all of the responsibility back on the airport. I am not sure why the airlines don't work harder to update these areas, WN has replaced some chairs and gate agent desks while adding charging stations. UA's gate areas look the same as when the airport opened, they even brought over some of the chairs from Stapleton which is why B has different chairs than C.

In regard to what is being updated on the existing portions of the concourses they are updating the restrooms, conveyances (moving walkways, escalators, elevators), signing, and the concessions. As mentioned above they are adding Starbucks near B32 and A30. A Con will have the biggest changes coming with the food court being replaced and several new restaurants being added over the next two years. I believe they said over the next 5 years they wanted to remodel or replace most of the concessions across the airport which will help in the modernization efforts, while not costing the airport anything as the concessions pay the cost.

I wish they would just update the flooring and seating along with a few other cosmetics updates throughout the existing concourses as it would make a huge difference. I have heard that anything like that will have to wait until after all the expansions projects are complete however.


I just think the overall decor needs to be modernized to match the expansions. I agree with the need to keep CPE down, but the major hub airlines (UA/WN) need to step up and sink money into renovating the existing concourses.

BTW, here is WN’s presentation to the city council that gives info on the proposal. This is similar to the one UA gave a month ago. The Concourse C expansion looks pretty nice actually!

https://denver.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=8089471&GUID=098993DA-42D7-4ADC-8375-E41A11A51A34
 
rph99
Posts: 127
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:26 am

Would hate to see F9 pushed to C. So many iconic views of F9 tails from the bridge. Would be a shame to waste such a view on United.
 
User avatar
Frontier14
Posts: 673
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:06 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
DEN1895 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:

Indeed, but if they knew UA was going to want almost all of A west from the get go, building out the remainder of A east should have been included. Also, to my knowledge, the concourse expansion didn’t address renovating the existing portions (other than the bathrooms) to match the decor of the new portions. They spent too much time on the Great Hall and not enough on the concourses IMO.



BTW, here is WN’s presentation to the city council that gives info on the proposal. This is similar to the one UA gave a month ago. The Concourse C expansion looks pretty nice actually!

https://denver.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=8089471&GUID=098993DA-42D7-4ADC-8375-E41A11A51A34


Thanks for the update re: the WN presentation to Denver policy folks - interesting. Replacement of the A food court makes me wonder, although it certainly could use a refreshment.

Not so sure we will see F9 relegated to C concourse at this point. Perhaps we will know a little more after the WN process is complete. Delta and AA factor into these changes as well.

Frontier 14
 
atlflyer
Posts: 726
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:21 pm

DEN1895 wrote:
Image
DEN 2019 Recap
    New International service added this year: Grand Cayman, Frankfurt on UA, Heathrow now year round on UA
    New service to 15 Domestic destinations, 20 new nonstops added to existing destinations, 3rd most connected airport in US
    UA reached 500 departures for the first time ever.
    So far in 2019, 7.4% growth rate pushing the airport to nearly 70 million passengers for the year

Image
Looking into 2020
    First Concourse expansion on B opens giving a look into the future of the airport.
    UA and WN continue growth at the airport(Max Dependent)
    WN opens hangar and maintenance facility on the North side of the airport.
    New International service to Rome and Nassu+ increased Gatwick and Paris service on Norwegian
    Great Hall project hopefully gets back on track
    Work starts on the first phase of Pena Reconstruction including an improved Uber/Lyft lot and Jackson Gap improvements
    Possible celebrations related to the 25th anniversary of the airport


Are there plans for the existing concourses to be renovated to match these new extensions?
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 933
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:42 pm

rph99 wrote:
Would hate to see F9 pushed to C. So many iconic views of F9 tails from the bridge. Would be a shame to waste such a view on United.


You have a point there. Maybe just building out A would be sufficient for the time being. Already the existing work is costing a lot of money, and building out both A and C will add even more. Build out the rest of A for F9, DL, AA, AS and move G4/SY to C.

Building out C and putting F9 there would make it and the trains even more crowded.
 
airlinewatcher1
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:48 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:46 pm

AS should be moved to A East next to AA. DL could also be moved to A East. WS should be adjacent to DL gates.
Both AA and DL already have clubs on A.
F9 and UA could both potentially fit on A West? I'm not sure what the long-term plans are for the ground-level commuter pad on the east end of A?

I'm glad to hear they are updating the signage and elevators/escalators. That has been needed for a while. Flooring on the concourses should all be hard/shiny, instead of carpet. All 3 concourses don't have enough escalators from the train to the main level, but especially on A. They could also use stairs in addition to the escalators. A and C should have sky-windows, as does B. The more open and airy natural light, the better. I hope the architectural style of the concourses all match each other when finished. The C West expansion for WN does not match the rest of the concourse.

C is scheduled to get a Centurion Lounge. A is scheduled to get another lounge from the Plaza Premium Group, in addition to the new UA club on A.

So many exciting projects in the works!! Should all be beautiful when finished.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3307
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:14 pm

airlinewatcher1 wrote:
AS should be moved to A East next to AA. DL could also be moved to A East. WS should be adjacent to DL gates.
Both AA and DL already have clubs on A.
F9 and UA could both potentially fit on A West? I'm not sure what the long-term plans are for the ground-level commuter pad on the east end of A?

I'm glad to hear they are updating the signage and elevators/escalators. That has been needed for a while. Flooring on the concourses should all be hard/shiny, instead of carpet. All 3 concourses don't have enough escalators from the train to the main level, but especially on A. They could also use stairs in addition to the escalators. A and C should have sky-windows, as does B. The more open and airy natural light, the better. I hope the architectural style of the concourses all match each other when finished. The C West expansion for WN does not match the rest of the concourse.

C is scheduled to get a Centurion Lounge. A is scheduled to get another lounge from the Plaza Premium Group, in addition to the new UA club on A.

So many exciting projects in the works!! Should all be beautiful when finished.


so many unknowns, with the likes of NK, B6, AM, Y4, AC, then you get into BA/LH/DY/FI/WK. Certainly going to be interesting to see how all of this shapes up.
 
DEN1895
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:21 am

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:16 am

I have given up trying to predict where each airline will go as the math no longer adds up without some airlines loosing gates, per this article from the Point Guy, it seems the airport will not really say much until each new agreement is worked out.
Link: https://thepointsguy.com/news/southwest-airlines-getting-more-gates-at-denver-airport/

The Priority Pass Lounge has started construction on the West side of A, if it is anything like the Centurion lounge it will take at least one year to complete construction.
Image
Image
 
DEN1895
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:21 am

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:28 am

Here is a document from the concession RFP that went out towards the end of last year, the proposals have been received and are currently under review so hopefully we hear more later this year.

If you are not familiar with Concourse A the current food court is in the NE corner with a restaurant and shop currently in the SW corner. The new quick service restaurants will be built in the SW before the current locations close.
Image
 
KDAL
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:40 am

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:40 pm

The updated lease agreement between WN and DEN for the 16 gates being added to the C concourse was approved unanimously by the council committee.

https://denver.legistar.com/MeetingDeta ... s=&Search=
All opinions and views expressed are my own and not representative of those of Southwest Airlines Co., its subsidiaries, or affiliates.
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 933
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:56 pm

Someone on another thread mentioned the airport coming back in a few weeks to discuss plans to add more gates to C West and reconfigure A East. Is there a source for that?
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