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KDAL
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:36 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
Someone on another thread mentioned the airport coming back in a few weeks to discuss plans to add more gates to C West and reconfigure A East. Is there a source for that?

I only watched about the last half of the meeting online so I could have missed it but I did not see anything about that. The only other things I saw discussed was stuff like holding rooms and seating areas.

I'll go back and watch the first thirty minutes that I missed now that it's posted and see.
All opinions and views expressed are my own and not representative of those of Southwest Airlines Co., its subsidiaries, or affiliates.
 
KDAL
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:16 am

KDAL wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
Someone on another thread mentioned the airport coming back in a few weeks to discuss plans to add more gates to C West and reconfigure A East. Is there a source for that?

I only watched about the last half of the meeting online so I could have missed it but I did not see anything about that. The only other things I saw discussed was stuff like holding rooms and seating areas.

I'll go back and watch the first thirty minutes that I missed now that it's posted and see.

Follow up - they mentioned coming back later with plans on how to phase in more gate expansion, and that C West and reconfiguring A East were options to get the airport to 90M pax. They did not say they would be coming back in a few weeks with plans for that.
All opinions and views expressed are my own and not representative of those of Southwest Airlines Co., its subsidiaries, or affiliates.
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:01 am

BNAMealer wrote:
Someone on another thread mentioned the airport coming back in a few weeks to discuss plans to add more gates to C West and reconfigure A East. Is there a source for that?


It was mentioned in both hearings for UA and WN, if you watch either video they discuss bringing forward future gate expansion plans soon. They didn't specifically say it would be both A or C or either one, they were giving those as the example of the space that remains with the current concourses.
 
smokeybandit
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:16 pm

Neat little video overlaying Stapleton airport with the current development

https://www.9news.com/article/travel/de ... 2dbcGT6JYY
 
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intotheair
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 1:17 am

smokeybandit wrote:
Neat little video overlaying Stapleton airport with the current development

https://www.9news.com/article/travel/de ... 2dbcGT6JYY


Very cool. I'm only slightly older than DIA, and I never flew out of Stapleton, but I remember my dad taking me out there before they demolished almost everything. Even then though, I was more enamored with the shiny new airport and the ability to planespot in the concourses without a boarding pass.

I wish they had been able to preserve more of the old airport and incorporate it into all the new development, though I suppose it wasn't meant to be. From what I remember, the city claimed to have built Concourse E with long term plans to turn it into an office building after Stapleton closed. I don't know how honest those plans were, because one bad summer hailstorm and everything was eventually leveled. I'm glad the old ATC tower was saved and has been repurposed. Other than that and maybe the Renaissance Hotel and UA training center, you'd have no idea that a major airport was ever there.

I believe the city also had plans to build the first light rail line from Auraria to Stapleton Airport instead of Broadway and I-25 to Five Points. In hindsight, it was probably better that it happened the way it did.
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intotheair
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:10 am

Looks like 9NEWS has done a number of stories leading up to DIA's 25th. Pretty cool. I miss the original train chimes as well as the voices of Pete Smythe and Reynelda Muse.

https://www.9news.com/article/travel/de ... ab4046fad3
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Pi7472000
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:38 am

Will DEN lose any service due to COVID-19? How is UA to NRT doing now? Also, I wonder if the Norwegian service to FCO will begin with the issues in Italy. It seems UA, DEN's largest carrier, may be more exposed to issues from this virus. It will be interesting to see if UA needs to cut back at DEN, especially their International service, along with Lufthansa and British if this continues to spread across Europe or the U.S.
 
dakota123
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:23 am

intotheair wrote:
Looks like 9NEWS has done a number of stories leading up to DIA's 25th. Pretty cool. I miss the original train chimes as well as the voices of Pete Smythe and Reynelda Muse.

https://www.9news.com/article/travel/de ... ab4046fad3


Right? How short-sighted was that? (Among many, many, other things Kimmy has wrought). Just like PDX’s carpet, some things become iconic and shouldn’t be changed “just because”.
“And If I claim to be a wise man, well surely it means that I don’t know”
 
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intotheair
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:54 am

dakota123 wrote:
intotheair wrote:
Looks like 9NEWS has done a number of stories leading up to DIA's 25th. Pretty cool. I miss the original train chimes as well as the voices of Pete Smythe and Reynelda Muse.

https://www.9news.com/article/travel/de ... ab4046fad3


Right? How short-sighted was that? (Among many, many, other things Kimmy has wrought). Just like PDX’s carpet, some things become iconic and shouldn’t be changed “just because”.


The chimes and voices changed in 2007 before Kim Day was hired. The original artist did both the original and the current sounds.
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smokeybandit
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:05 pm

Lots of local news stuff on the 25th anniversary, including the conspiracy theories around the construction

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/l ... al-airport
 
ericm2031
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:25 pm

Pi7472000 wrote:
Will DEN lose any service due to COVID-19? How is UA to NRT doing now? Also, I wonder if the Norwegian service to FCO will begin with the issues in Italy. It seems UA, DEN's largest carrier, may be more exposed to issues from this virus. It will be interesting to see if UA needs to cut back at DEN, especially their International service, along with Lufthansa and British if this continues to spread across Europe or the U.S.


UA announced more cuts today, regarding NRT, SFO and DEN aren’t affected.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:53 pm

Pi7472000 wrote:
Will DEN lose any service due to COVID-19? How is UA to NRT doing now? Also, I wonder if the Norwegian service to FCO will begin with the issues in Italy. It seems UA, DEN's largest carrier, may be more exposed to issues from this virus. It will be interesting to see if UA needs to cut back at DEN, especially their International service, along with Lufthansa and British if this continues to spread across Europe or the U.S.


DEN is a domestic powerhouse for UA. International demand has certainly dropped but that is literally a drop in the bucket for UA at DEN. Out of all of the UA hubs DEN is the most insulated from international demand patterns.
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:53 pm

With today being the 25th anniversary of the DEN, the airport put out a nice chart that shows how much growth has occurred since the last year Stapleton was in operation.

Image

Here are some pictures of a new UA 787-10 visiting yesterday.
Image
Image
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:25 pm

Nice chart. Do they have any data on broken elevators and escalators? Average time spent in shuttle buses? I think DIA will win hands-down versus Stapleton.
 
airfrnt
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:48 pm

A very interesting note right at the end of the video - DEN is talking to the TSA about allowing people to go back out to gates to drop people off and pick them up.

That's a game changer if they do it.

From the video, I still miss the trees in the great hall. it was a amazingly lush place before the TSA took over the floor.

Also, I noticed Kim Day's shortened hair in the recent videos - she did in fact have a bout with cancer. That must have been very painful on top of the Great Hall Partners debacle. Godspeed.
 
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Frontier14
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:26 pm

airfrnt wrote:
A very interesting note right at the end of the video - DEN is talking to the TSA about allowing people to go back out to gates to drop people off and pick them up.

That's a game changer if they do it.

From the video, I still miss the trees in the great hall. it was a amazingly lush place before the TSA took over the floor.

Also, I noticed Kim Day's shortened hair in the recent videos - she did in fact have a bout with cancer. That must have been very painful on top of the Great Hall Partners debacle. Godspeed.


I certainly hope her recovery from cancer is successful, if she was diagnosed with such. As for her hair cut, the Denver City Council should really take her and her staff to the woodshed over the Great Hall fiasco that she has now admitted to being her fault. All of the DIA Queen Bees supporters cannot ignore the fact now that she has publicly admitted to her staff's insufficient and poor oversight of the previous contractor. Those of us who had complained about Day's management capabilities have now been proven valid.

Okay on to better things. Has it been confirmed that the existing pedestrian bridge to concourse A will now be kept? I hope so, as it will take some of the load off the trains with the projected UA and WN growth.

Frontier 14
 
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jsnww81
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:21 pm

How has it been 25 years since DIA opened??? Man, I feel old. I still remember sitting at the kitchen table in eighth grade, watching national-news footage of the first planes taxiing out that morning. The company that built the notorious baggage system (BAE) was based in my hometown of Carrollton, Texas, so we had quite a lot of coverage of the opening in the Dallas area as well.

As a birthday gift (my birthday is five days before DIA's) my parents took me out of school and flew with me up to Denver to visit the new airport just a few days after it opened. I took eight rolls of film with me and still have eight envelopes full of photos taken when it was just a week old. My 14-year-old self wasn't too handy with a camera back then, so a lot of the interior photos came out really dark, but I have some pretty good shots that capture the era.

Also glad I got to visit Stapleton a few times in the early 1990s on family vacations. At the time I was far more interested in the new airport and didn't pay much attention to the old one, but now I'm very happy I saw it before it was all pulled down. We drove past it in 1995 after the new airport opened, and it was very eerie seeing it sitting there silent with all the jetways still attached and the runways completely empty.
 
smokeybandit
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:46 am

Interesting that Stapleton's best was 300 less daily flights, yet less half the annual passengers
 
dakota123
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 29, 2020 5:02 am

intotheair wrote:
dakota123 wrote:
intotheair wrote:
Looks like 9NEWS has done a number of stories leading up to DIA's 25th. Pretty cool. I miss the original train chimes as well as the voices of Pete Smythe and Reynelda Muse.

https://www.9news.com/article/travel/de ... ab4046fad3


Right? How short-sighted was that? (Among many, many, other things Kimmy has wrought). Just like PDX’s carpet, some things become iconic and shouldn’t be changed “just because”.


The chimes and voices changed in 2007 before Kim Day was hired. The original artist did both the original and the current sounds.


Not true at all. The chimes are the same, yes, the voices and spiel are now just generic, hear-it-anywhere blah blah blah. Maybe script and direction, the effect is the same.
“And If I claim to be a wise man, well surely it means that I don’t know”
 
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intotheair
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:25 am

dakota123 wrote:
intotheair wrote:
dakota123 wrote:

Right? How short-sighted was that? (Among many, many, other things Kimmy has wrought). Just like PDX’s carpet, some things become iconic and shouldn’t be changed “just because”.


The chimes and voices changed in 2007 before Kim Day was hired. The original artist did both the original and the current sounds.


Not true at all. The chimes are the same, yes, the voices and spiel are now just generic, hear-it-anywhere blah blah blah. Maybe script and direction, the effect is the same.


What do you say is not true? Artist Jim Green is responsible for the sound on the trains. When the airport opened, it had a more old west sound and the voices of Reynolds Muse and Pete Smythe.

https://youtu.be/nt3e3dr4VEw

It changed in 2007 to the clanking piano and guitar riffs, and Alan Roach and Adele Arakawa voiced the announcements. The voices were changed more recently with Kim Christiansen and Alan Roach again, though the chimes stayed the same.
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smokeybandit
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:09 pm

airfrnt wrote:
A very interesting note right at the end of the video - DEN is talking to the TSA about allowing people to go back out to gates to drop people off and pick them up.

That's a game changer if they do it.


That's just what Denver needs, longer security/train lines
 
dakota123
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:01 pm

intotheair wrote:
dakota123 wrote:
intotheair wrote:

The chimes and voices changed in 2007 before Kim Day was hired. The original artist did both the original and the current sounds.


Not true at all. The chimes are the same, yes, the voices and spiel are now just generic, hear-it-anywhere blah blah blah. Maybe script and direction, the effect is the same.


What do you say is not true? Artist Jim Green is responsible for the sound on the trains. When the airport opened, it had a more old west sound and the voices of Reynolds Muse and Pete Smythe.

https://youtu.be/nt3e3dr4VEw

It changed in 2007 to the clanking piano and guitar riffs, and Alan Roach and Adele Arakawa voiced the announcements. The voices were changed more recently with Kim Christiansen and Alan Roach again, though the chimes stayed the same.


Agreed, I shouldn’t have said Not true at all — edit time ran out. I did allow that the chimes are the same. I’m reacting to script and direction, then, to be more accurate. There’s nothing remotely interesting about the messages these days; it’s no different than what you’d hear anywhere. Did Kimmy have anything to do with it? No idea. But my personal belief is she’s a disaster for the airport, and the change is in keeping with Kimmy’s overall reign. The B carpet is disgusting (I mean that literally), as are the bathrooms (eaten-away flooring under the urinals, for one). You just don’t see that in other “world class” airports, and it’s attributable to the money-grubbing impulses of Kimmy.
“And If I claim to be a wise man, well surely it means that I don’t know”
 
airfrnt
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:11 pm

Frontier14 wrote:
airfrnt wrote:

I certainly hope her recovery from cancer is successful, if she was diagnosed with such. As for her hair cut, the Denver City Council should really take her and her staff to the woodshed over the Great Hall fiasco that she has now admitted to being her fault. All of the DIA Queen Bees supporters cannot ignore the fact now that she has publicly admitted to her staff's insufficient and poor oversight of the previous contractor. Those of us who had complained about Day's management capabilities have now been proven valid.

Okay on to better things. Has it been confirmed that the existing pedestrian bridge to concourse A will now be kept? I hope so, as it will take some of the load off the trains with the projected UA and WN growth.

Frontier 14


Your line has consistently been that everything is her fault, and she never takes responsibility, if you watch the video she does, in fact, take responsibility for it, right there in the video. The posts in this forum using demeaning and sexist language (queen bee, taken to the woodshed), makes me think that the problem has nothing to do with her performance. For the record I don't work at the airport, or have any skin in the game other then being a resident of Colorado - but it sickens me that this is the response to a thread showcasing a very successful airport in the United States.
Last edited by airfrnt on Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
airfrnt
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:13 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
airfrnt wrote:
A very interesting note right at the end of the video - DEN is talking to the TSA about allowing people to go back out to gates to drop people off and pick them up.

That's a game changer if they do it.


That's just what Denver needs, longer security/train lines


this is one of the key reasons they are redoing the security infrastructure. I suspect that the other reason they are doing this is because TSA has not committed to fully staffing the new security setup, and DEN is basically offering to pay for the additional security with the excuse that there will be more passengers.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:08 am

airfrnt wrote:
Frontier14 wrote:
airfrnt wrote:

I certainly hope her recovery from cancer is successful, if she was diagnosed with such. As for her hair cut, the Denver City Council should really take her and her staff to the woodshed over the Great Hall fiasco that she has now admitted to being her fault. All of the DIA Queen Bees supporters cannot ignore the fact now that she has publicly admitted to her staff's insufficient and poor oversight of the previous contractor. Those of us who had complained about Day's management capabilities have now been proven valid.

Okay on to better things. Has it been confirmed that the existing pedestrian bridge to concourse A will now be kept? I hope so, as it will take some of the load off the trains with the projected UA and WN growth.

Frontier 14


Your line has consistently been that everything is her fault, and she never takes responsibility, if you watch the video she does, in fact, take responsibility for it, right there in the video. The posts in this forum using demeaning and sexist language (queen bee, taken to the woodshed), makes me think that the problem has nothing to do with her performance. For the record I don't work at the airport, or have any skin in the game other then being a resident of Colorado - but it sickens me that this is the response to a thread showcasing a very successful airport in the United States.


So you think Day is doing a good job? I don't think anyone cares if Day is a Mr. or Mrs., Kim Day is doing a terrible job and needs to be replaced.

Under her leadership the airport has turned into one inefficient crap storm of an airport with chronically broken infrastructure, a billion dollar renovation project that is years behind schedule now, and lack of vision for addressing actual problems at the airport.

They spent millions of dollars for those LED light sticks on Pena but they can't spend $17.99 to repair a latch to a bathroom stall. Oh, and the LED light tubes don't even work. There's always some that are displaying a random color (or completely off) than the rest. The airport is poorly run and it shows.

But I guess that is sexist? Accountability is only warranted if it is a man?
 
airfrnt
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:19 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
Under her leadership the airport has turned into one inefficient crap storm of an airport with chronically broken infrastructure, a billion dollar renovation project that is years behind schedule now, and lack of vision for addressing actual problems at the airport.


Of the problems at the airport, lack of vision is probably not the problem, as evidenced by this and the UA contract, as well as the upcoming contracts with other airports.

They spent millions of dollars for those LED light sticks on Pena but they can't spend $17.99 to repair a latch to a bathroom stall. Oh, and the LED light tubes don't even work. There's always some that are displaying a random color (or completely off) than the rest. The airport is poorly run and it shows.


There is a refurbishment for all of the bathrooms as part of the expansion, not just the the new ones. The hang up with the LED system has been a hold-up with DOT (which regulates Pena blvd, despite
the fact that it's not a interstate).

So yeah, they need to put more money into the concourses, but they are doing that.

As far as the great partners went, Ferroval was in over their heads. The airport pulled the ripcord earlier which is what they should have done. Would it have been better to not do it as a P3? Sure - but there were some good tradeoffs that made them go for the P3 option in the first place -most notably less cost per emplanned customer


But I guess that is sexist? Accountability is only warranted if it is a man?


Take the successes with the failures as well. It can and will get better.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:41 pm

airfrnt wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
Under her leadership the airport has turned into one inefficient crap storm of an airport with chronically broken infrastructure, a billion dollar renovation project that is years behind schedule now, and lack of vision for addressing actual problems at the airport.


Of the problems at the airport, lack of vision is probably not the problem, as evidenced by this and the UA contract, as well as the upcoming contracts with other airports.

They spent millions of dollars for those LED light sticks on Pena but they can't spend $17.99 to repair a latch to a bathroom stall. Oh, and the LED light tubes don't even work. There's always some that are displaying a random color (or completely off) than the rest. The airport is poorly run and it shows.


There is a refurbishment for all of the bathrooms as part of the expansion, not just the the new ones. The hang up with the LED system has been a hold-up with DOT (which regulates Pena blvd, despite
the fact that it's not a interstate).

So yeah, they need to put more money into the concourses, but they are doing that.

As far as the great partners went, Ferroval was in over their heads. The airport pulled the ripcord earlier which is what they should have done. Would it have been better to not do it as a P3? Sure - but there were some good tradeoffs that made them go for the P3 option in the first place -most notably less cost per emplanned customer


But I guess that is sexist? Accountability is only warranted if it is a man?


Take the successes with the failures as well. It can and will get better.


Lack of vision is certainly a problem. They waited until every single carrier has maxed out their gates to get started on a concourse expansion that literally will be 100% full the day it opens. If you call that forward thinking I do not know what to tell you.

The bathrooms have been a disgusting, overcrowded mess for YEARS. This isn't a new issue. The elevators and escalators have been unreliable for YEARS. Also not a new issue. The traffic on Pena is getting worse every day, and instead of widening the part that is actually congested (I-70 to E-470) they are widening the already widened part and putting the main section as last. Major fail in planning. Again, they will wait until the problem is a crisis before doing anything about it. That is the way this airport reacts to everything - reactionary and not proactive.
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:42 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:

Lack of vision is certainly a problem. They waited until every single carrier has maxed out their gates to get started on a concourse expansion that literally will be 100% full the day it opens. If you call that forward thinking I do not know what to tell you.

The bathrooms have been a disgusting, overcrowded mess for YEARS. This isn't a new issue. The elevators and escalators have been unreliable for YEARS. Also not a new issue. The traffic on Pena is getting worse every day, and instead of widening the part that is actually congested (I-70 to E-470) they are widening the already widened part and putting the main section as last. Major fail in planning. Again, they will wait until the problem is a crisis before doing anything about it. That is the way this airport reacts to everything - reactionary and not proactive.


I think one of the biggest issues is that the airport has tried to keep it's cost low and I think this is part of the reason as to why there has been so much growth in recent years. DEN has the lowest CPE of any UA hub, from $15 less than Newark to $.50 less than IAH. Even after the expansions/ renovations currently happening the airport still expects to be the cheapest of the UA hubs, this also helps play into why DEN has always been so profitable for UA. When you look at the history of the airport it took them 15+ years to pay off the initial debt and get down the CPE. When WN wanted more gates they got them fairly quickly allowing them to continue growing. When the A-Line started construction the airport had agreements with RTD to build the station so they had to start construction on that to have everything completed by 2016. Since then the hotel has been preforming better than expected in terms of revenue generation. Once the hotel was complete the airport started planning for more gates/ great hall expansion as the airport was growing quickly hitting 58 million pax. The original plan was to add 24 gates across the three concourses but after talking to the airlines that number was increased to the 39 that are being worked on today. As the airport was nearing 25 years old all conveyances and restrooms were included in the plan in addition to replacing/adding train cars. While the airport could have moved up the timeline on these projects the amount of bonds that would have been issued would have increased the CPE much quicker than the airport would have liked. One big thing to keep in mind is that UA and WN have a lot of say in these projects and the timing of them as they foot a large portion of the bill.

In the mid 2010's the airport started studying Pena expansion as it was becoming more congested quicker than originally expected due to the amount of development that occurred in Green Valley Ranch and Reunion areas. Pena has now hit the point where the first sections after I-70 now have more non-airport traffic than airport traffic. This has lead to some conversations with the FAA about how Pena should be expanded as the FAA does not want airport funds to be the only funding source for any Pena improvements West of E470 , the FAA wants the surrounding cities to assist with the funding, which I don't disagree with as non-airport traffic is growing faster than airport traffic. When the new Tower on ramp was built it took an agreement with Commerce City, the City of Denver, and E470 as the airport was never allowed to fund it as it would not contribute to the airport in any way, in the agreement Commerce City even pays the airport for the maintenance. Pena was always split into 4 phases with the area from Jackson Gap to the terminal being the first phase, the second phase is from I-70 to 56th. The reason that the Terminal phase is first is because the improvements are less about Pena and more about Jackson Gap and improving the Ground Transportation situation with Uber and Lyft growing as much as they are. Pena does get one additional lane in each direction, but Jackson Gap gets completely rebuilt with a new Pena interchange and a new intersection at 75th as the intersection is a disaster. Uber and Lyft will be relocated from the Mt. Elbert lot to the new holding lot just off Pena which should reduce passenger wait time as it often takes 15+ mins for their ride to reach the terminal from the Mt. Elbert lot. To add to the complications the city has told the airport that instead of expanding Pena they should find ways to reduce vehicle trips to help the environment. When the first phase of Pena was approved the airport was told that they needed a better plan in place before any future expansions would be approved.

The LED welcome sign while it has been a mess due to technical issues, I don't think it was the worst idea. The old color changing sign needed to be replaced as the specialty light bulbs that it required were no longer being manufactured and had to be special ordered costing 100,000+ each. That was the main motivation for the new sign and they had a solid plan in the beginning, the biggest screw up with the sign was the airport not doing all of their homework about the rules about highways leading to airports. Even with that mess up, the advertising on the sign is expected to pay the sign off within 10-15 years which was why the airport insisted on having such large digital displays, while the airport could have spent 10-20% on a smaller color changing sign, it would probably not have the same advertising capabilities that the current sign has. All of the current work on the sign has been under the signs warranty.

While I don't agree with every decision the airport has made over the past 5 or so years, I understand the reasoning for a lot of the decisions. In day to day operations the airport generally runs fairly smoothly for the amount of traffic that passes through the airport, especially when you compare it to other airports that handle similar amounts of traffic such as JFK or SFO, and I think that the airport is heading in a good direction for the future and I would imagine at least UA and WN agree.

Chart from the airport showing CPE per major hub airport:
Image
 
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Frontier14
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:03 am

DEN1985 thanks for your factual information. There were and are somethings that are not solely within the airport management's authority which most of us realize. However, when the wheels of repair and change turn slowly that results in frustration. For me, I have had concern for a number of years regarding how the airport paid little attention to fixing (what were at the time less costly fixes) the items that impacted the traveling pax the most ie. restrooms, charging stations etc... By delaying the repairs and updates, the costs begin to escalate proportionately.which in turn drive up the budget and extends the time in which they will be completed.

The airport director, Day, placed most of the blame and burgeoning construction cost with the prior contractor's failure to perform. Undoubtedly, there were likely failures and the contractor should have been held liable. But six months later, behind closed doors, Ms. Day, informs the Denver City Council it was this was not all true. She admits that her staff and she failed to properly managed the contractor, thus resulting in significant delays to the terminal redo and sky rocketing costs to finish the work. This in turn will drive up the DEN CPE even further than projected.

With the recent DIA management failure acknowledgements, I just think it is time for a change in leadership.

Frontier 14
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:18 am

Frontier14 wrote:
DEN1985 thanks for your factual information. There were and are somethings that are not solely within the airport management's authority which most of us realize. However, when the wheels of repair and change turn slowly that results in frustration. For me, I have had concern for a number of years regarding how the airport paid little attention to fixing (what were at the time less costly fixes) the items that impacted the traveling pax the most ie. restrooms, charging stations etc... By delaying the repairs and updates, the costs begin to escalate proportionately.which in turn drive up the budget and extends the time in which they will be completed.

The airport director, Day, placed most of the blame and burgeoning construction cost with the prior contractor's failure to perform. Undoubtedly, there were likely failures and the contractor should have been held liable. But six months later, behind closed doors, Ms. Day, informs the Denver City Council it was this was not all true. She admits that her staff and she failed to properly managed the contractor, thus resulting in significant delays to the terminal redo and sky rocketing costs to finish the work. This in turn will drive up the DEN CPE even further than projected.

With the recent DIA management failure acknowledgements, I just think it is time for a change in leadership.

Frontier 14


The biggest issue with the new projects is the Kim wants to be more involved with the projects than she probably needs to be, but I think that is party due to her architect background. With the Great Hall there were many decisions that should have been made by some one lower down or some sort of design committee but Kim wanted the final say. With her missing work due to her cancer treatments that was a big cause of the delay, which I was really just bad timing of elements out of her control. The biggest issue was that she didn't relinquish enough power while she was not at the airport full time. I know many people do not think that the Great Hall Project was needed, but I think it doesn't go far enough, the physical structure of the Terminal needs to be expanded to allow more space for baggage claim and ticket counters in addition the expanded security checkpoints that are coming. I have heard she will probably retire after the Great Hall but she wanted to see the project through since it was her project/mess to fix.
 
airfrnt
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:46 am


The biggest issue with the new projects is the Kim wants to be more involved with the projects than she probably needs to be, but I think that is party due to her architect background. With the Great Hall there were many decisions that should have been made by some one lower down or some sort of design committee but Kim wanted the final say. With her missing work due to her cancer treatments that was a big cause of the delay, which I was really just bad timing of elements out of her control. The biggest issue was that she didn't relinquish enough power while she was not at the airport full time. I know many people do not think that the Great Hall Project was needed, but I think it doesn't go far enough, the physical structure of the Terminal needs to be expanded to allow more space for baggage claim and ticket counters in addition the expanded security checkpoints that are coming. I have heard she will probably retire after the Great Hall but she wanted to see the project through since it was her project/mess to fix.


GCP lit the terminal on fire - and from my understanding tried to downplay it. They also didn't really think or care about the customers going through the terminal during construction. They tried to weasel more money due to the core strength issue, even though the second test revealed there was no core strength issue w/ the concrete.

It's better to kill subcontractors who were not performing sooner, rather then later, even if it means you have to scope it back. I am sure that UA and DEN learned that lesson with the baggage system. Anyways, I think we are on hold until the new "phase 2" terminal expansion details are being worked out.

At the last CC meeting, they also said they would be presenting some options for future expansion past the telescoping terminals. I for one am still completely opposed to the east-west scheme, and would prefer that they go ahead and add a new car to each train and expand the train system further.
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:46 pm

Small interior update, the Starbucks on Concourse A near A30 opened this week. The Starbucks by B32 should not be too far behind, opening in April or May. UA also started renovating gate hold rooms with the first to be complete is B35, they replaced the carpet and replaced the gate agent's desk. They also moved the line for boarding to be similar to WN with the line running along the window, hopefully new chairs are added soon and they continue this process with the rest of the B gates.

Starbucks:
Image
Image

B35:
Image
Image
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:18 pm

B35 wasn't a renovation in the traditional sense. That used to be a customer service locker room. The GARDI project deactivated Gate B33, and activated gate B35. So United has been short a gate in that zone until this project to remove the locker room was completed.
 
panam330
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:31 pm

DEN1895 wrote:
Small interior update, the Starbucks on Concourse A near A30 opened this week. The Starbucks by B32 should not be too far behind, opening in April or May. UA also started renovating gate hold rooms with the first to be complete is B35, they replaced the carpet and replaced the gate agent's desk. They also moved the line for boarding to be similar to WN with the line running along the window, hopefully new chairs are added soon and they continue this process with the rest of the B gates.

Excellent. The new B Starbucks can’t open fast enough. The crowd at the one going down to the dungeon is always ridiculous. The gate renovations will be a welcome change as well; they’re getting a tad stale with their age. 35 looks great. :thumbsup:
 
HardeesBiscuit
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:42 pm

intotheair wrote:
dakota123 wrote:
intotheair wrote:

The chimes and voices changed in 2007 before Kim Day was hired. The original artist did both the original and the current sounds.


Not true at all. The chimes are the same, yes, the voices and spiel are now just generic, hear-it-anywhere blah blah blah. Maybe script and direction, the effect is the same.


What do you say is not true? Artist Jim Green is responsible for the sound on the trains. When the airport opened, it had a more old west sound and the voices of Reynolds Muse and Pete Smythe.

https://youtu.be/nt3e3dr4VEw

It changed in 2007 to the clanking piano and guitar riffs, and Alan Roach and Adele Arakawa voiced the announcements. The voices were changed more recently with Kim Christiansen and Alan Roach again, though the chimes stayed the same.


OMG those original 1990's chimes are HORRENDOUS from the youtube clip. 2 second midi sounds. Just so dated. My ears are bleeding. Thank God they nuked them. The "new" ones are corny and annoying as all hell, but better than circa 1995 Windows 3.0 sound bar.midi clips they replaced.
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:43 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
B35 wasn't a renovation in the traditional sense. That used to be a customer service locker room. The GARDI project deactivated Gate B33, and activated gate B35. So United has been short a gate in that zone until this project to remove the locker room was completed.


Thanks for the info, do you know if B33 will stay closed or will it reopen after future GARDI phases, I know a big goal was to realign the gates from their original sizing.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:54 pm

DEN1895 wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
B35 wasn't a renovation in the traditional sense. That used to be a customer service locker room. The GARDI project deactivated Gate B33, and activated gate B35. So United has been short a gate in that zone until this project to remove the locker room was completed.


Thanks for the info, do you know if B33 will stay closed or will it reopen after future GARDI phases, I know a big goal was to realign the gates from their original sizing.


Previously B33 was active and B35 was not. GARDI switched it to make B35 active and B33 closed off. This was to increase the envelope size of B35 and B37 to accommodate 753 sized aircraft. Previously B37 was A319/A320 only.
 
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Frontier14
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:59 pm

Appreciate the pictures DEN1895 of the B concourse renovation.

Frontier 14
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:19 am

Interesting article from The Points Guy, while not a ton of information it does state that DL is looking for 7 gates up from their current 6. More than likely F9 will move to the ground load facility leaving 5 available gates in addition to the city gates with actual jet bridges. It will be interesting to see if the city decides to lease additional International gates to DL as all additional International gates that are being constructed are already going to UA. There is also a possibility that an additional airline besides F9 may be using the ground load gates.

Article: https://thepointsguy.com/news/denver-airport-gate-deals-united-southwest-frontier-delta-airlines/
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:03 pm

Outdoor Photo Update

A Concourse
The foundation and the piers for the basement are in place, I wonder if this project is still on schedule as it started at the same time as C Con but is not as far along, or C might be ahead of schedule.
Image
Image

B West
This project looks like it is mostly interior work now, besides the roof level and the connection to the existing building which still need some exterior work, the patio is very obvious now.
Image
Image

C East
C East is moving along quickly with the steel erection now to the first new sub-core, the expansion is quite a bit larger than the existing building.
Image
Image

B East
Not much to see yet as this project started last, with no basement this project is moving quickly with most of the foundation complete, steel should start going up this summer.
Image

SWA Hangar
Steel being erected for the main structure now and land being prepared for the pad outside the hangar and taxiway.
Image
 
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intotheair
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:15 am

Thanks so much for sharing. It's all very exciting to see. Let's hope A-East and C-West aren't too far behind these extensions.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:13 pm

Things have changed quite a bit since the beginning of March, this week the airport was expecting to see between 70-80k passengers through TSA a day. Currently the airport is seeing about 8k a day, roughly 2/3 of the concessions have closed with many laying off employees. Flights have dropped considerably and aircraft have started accumulating at the airport, as of now here is a current list of aircraft at the airport as of 3/26:
UA:
3-777
9-787
36- Narrow body
18- RJs

AA: 3
DL: 4
F9: 14
WN: 1

Total of 88 currently parked.
Here are some photos of the area around the UA hangar, One taxiway and deice pad near the hangar have been closed for storage as well, it is hard to get a lot of aircraft in one picture.
Image
Image
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B East expansion has started construction of the above ground steel, putting 3 of the 4 expansions in the steel work or later phase.

Hopefully everyone in the industry is doing well and everything recovers quickly.
 
smokeybandit
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:25 pm

10%, ouch.

But all else aside, what an awesome time to fly if you don't like crowds
 
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Frontier14
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:05 pm

DEN1895 thanks for keeping us up to date on some of the activities at DIA. These truly are difficult times for aviation and the country.

Frontier 14
 
CALMSP
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:07 pm

NK moving from 13x day to 1 flight per day beginning April 8. ORD-DEN-ORD.
 
airlinewatcher1
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:48 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:17 pm

Will the terminal renovation and concourse expansion projects continue with the dramatic downturn in flights? Suddenly, all those new gates don't look needed.
 
airlinewatcher1
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:48 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:23 pm

Can somebody tell me what happened to gate B19? This gate has been closed and decommissioned for quite some time. I don't see it coming back.
 
jetmatt777
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Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:46 pm

It doesn't fit. B21 is a 757 capable gate which requires eating into adjacent gates. Same situation with B33 being closed in favor of B35.
 
DEN1895
Posts: 212
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:59 am

airlinewatcher1 wrote:
Will the terminal renovation and concourse expansion projects continue with the dramatic downturn in flights? Suddenly, all those new gates don't look needed.


The simple answer is any project that has already started will continue, this includes:
-Concourse expansions
-Great Hall phase 1
-New baggage system for the Main Terminal

Projects that have not started that now appear to be on hold:
-Pena expansion phase 1
-New land side parking lot
-Expanded deice capabilities

The big thing to remember is that most of the gates, the 28 on A&C, will not be fully operational until Q1/Q2 2022. By that time things will hopefully have returned to where they were before all of this began.

One project that hasn't started yet that has been approved to move forward is the replacement of the train station doors on all concourses and the terminal.
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:14 am

Image

A few small updates from the past few days, the first runway has been closed for aircraft parking, RWY 8/26. Depending on how many aircraft are stored at the airport a second runway may be closed in the coming weeks. A third runway will be closed this summer for planned construction. All three runways are on the East side meaning the airport may just have the three West side runways this summer. The North Screening checkpoint has been closed until further notice, leaving the Bridge and South checkpoints open. Nearly half of all concessions have closed due to lack of sales as the airport is seeing only 5-6k passengers a day. Frontier has started to store aircraft at the airport as well with probably 10-15 at the airport so far. With the drop in passengers and flights different ideas are being looked at to either close parts of concourses or entire concourses.

F9 aircraft parked:
Image

Hope everyone is doing well
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