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trexel94
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:44 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:30 am

rjbesikof wrote:
jhsusman wrote:
Sounds like UA is adding back DEN-FRA next month. I wonder if LH will ever bring back their DEN-FRA connection or if they will rely on United's metal. . .


No, I think they will rely on United. With Lufthansa's entire A380/346 fleet being eliminated, Lufthansa will probably want to focus on markets where there is not as much redundancy. Do you think LH will hand DEN-MUC over to UA?


Has there been any official press or credible sources regarding LH pulling out? Even Edelweiss still has DEN flights for 2021. I struggle seeing LH abandoning DEN entirely as it’s one of LH’s most profitable American routes. In addition, LH hasn’t flown the A346 into DEN for quite some time since switching to the A350.

For FRA, initially it was my understanding that the 744 routes would stick around a little longer and ultimately be converted to the upcoming 777X. A sole UA 787 flight seems insufficient even during a post Covid recovery.
 
CALMSP
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:44 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
jhsusman wrote:
Sounds like UA is adding back DEN-FRA next month. I wonder if LH will ever bring back their DEN-FRA connection or if they will rely on United's metal. . .


No, I think they will rely on United. With Lufthansa's entire A380/346 fleet being eliminated, Lufthansa will probably want to focus on markets where there is not as much redundancy. Do you think LH will hand DEN-MUC over to UA?


I don't see a need to run DEN-MUC for a while, its not even planned for LH to operate and I can't see UA jumping in and both of them lose money on it for now.
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:14 pm

CALMSP wrote:

I don't see a need to run DEN-MUC for a while, its not even planned for LH to operate and I can't see UA jumping in and both of them lose money on it for now.


From what I have heard the MUC flight will fly as currently scheduled at 3 days a week on LH, UA will fly FRA by themselves also at 3 days a week.


A few other fun facts that came out recently:
- For the first 6 months of 2020, DEN was the 9th busiest airport in the world
-DEN had the most seat capacity of any airport of any other airport for UA,WN, and F9 in August.
 
CALMSP
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:00 am

DEN1895 wrote:
CALMSP wrote:

I don't see a need to run DEN-MUC for a while, its not even planned for LH to operate and I can't see UA jumping in and both of them lose money on it for now.


From what I have heard the MUC flight will fly as currently scheduled at 3 days a week on LH, UA will fly FRA by themselves also at 3 days a week.


A few other fun facts that came out recently:
- For the first 6 months of 2020, DEN was the 9th busiest airport in the world
-DEN had the most seat capacity of any airport of any other airport for UA,WN, and F9 in August.


I thought so as well, but per the LH station manager he says no.
 
ytib
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:51 pm

318, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 388, 707, 717, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73Q, 735, 73G, 738, 7M8, 739, 752, 753, 742, 74L, 744, 762, 763, 772, 77L, 77W, 789, 142, CN1, CR2, CR7, DC8, DH2, DH8, D8Q, D10, D95, EM2, ER3, ER4, E70, 100, J31, M11, M83, M88, M90, SF3
 
SyracuseAvGeek
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:12 pm

Just saw a very interesting trip report from Denver Air Connection. Interesting that the Metroliner is still flying passengers, found a trip report from it:

https://youtu.be/61HUBuGz9Is
"I haven't been everywhere yet, but it's on my list."
 
775899
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:34 pm

ytib wrote:


What an absolute joke this has become. Such as waste of money. I get nobody saw the pandemic coming, but this was flawed from Day 1. Who cares if the security area is exposed like that? With the amount of security at airports these days, the odds are pretty low anything would happen. What is needed more is the concourse expansions/renovations.
 
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ADent
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:38 pm

ytib wrote:


They can’t move both security check points upstairs (and not moving either is an option) with the projects budget - so they are investigating options to secure the exposed check point(s) - walls, increased security, enhanced security system, other.

Also it looks like only United and Southwest will occupy the new check in area.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:14 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
ytib wrote:


What an absolute joke this has become. Such as waste of money. I get nobody saw the pandemic coming, but this was flawed from Day 1. Who cares if the security area is exposed like that? With the amount of security at airports these days, the odds are pretty low anything would happen. What is needed more is the concourse expansions/renovations.


Agreed. Waste of time, money, and resources. Day's leadership has failed on multiple levels. It is time for the City of Denver to install competent leadership at the airport to fix this mess.
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:10 pm

I do agree that the leadership team should be held accountable, but I also think the airport is going to hurt themselves more in the long run by not increasing the budget to complete the project how it should have been done the first time without as much of the extra add-ons that were not needed. The terminal is over capacity and does have some major safety issues, in addition to most of the mechanical systems nearing the end of their life. If they go cheap now, I fear that major renovations will be needed again in 5-10 years due to Kim Day trying to keep her word. If they use the remaining funds to finish the ticketing areas for the other airlines they could then redo security in the future with little disruption in 3-5 years once things start picking up again and the airport has funding again.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:06 pm

One thing I wish would be done is convert the UA Concourse B Stores (a/c parts) into a large, modern food court. Many areas of the concourse are cramped, and converting this into a large area to spread out and have enough tables would be fantastic. Visible in the lower part of this picture

Image

The original idea of having this large parts depot on the concourse was one of convenience. There are vacuum tubes (like at your drive-through bank but large enough to fit boxes in) going to many gate houses (12x12 buildings under the jetbridge bases) in order to expedite parts delivery when a mechanic needs them. Great idea on paper, but never worked in reality. They haven't been used in years, in fact, I think the tubes are being removed as they rebuild the apron areas along the concourse. Without needing access to this system there really isn't much practical need to have UA Stores there, the city could find space in the basement to swap to give you United. All parts deliveries are by truck or tractor now anyway, and would be able to get to the basement. I don't think Stores stocks spare engines or anything at this location anyway, anytime a spare is here it is delivered to the hangar. There are a few offices in that space also, but office space could be fit into this design still or relocated elsewhere.

Just an idea. Just imagine that building with plenty of glass for natural light, several floors with plenty of tables and restaurants to choose from. Would be nice.
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:36 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
One thing I wish would be done is convert the UA Concourse B Stores (a/c parts) into a large, modern food court. Many areas of the concourse are cramped, and converting this into a large area to spread out and have enough tables would be fantastic. Visible in the lower part of this picture

Image

The original idea of having this large parts depot on the concourse was one of convenience. There are vacuum tubes (like at your drive-through bank but large enough to fit boxes in) going to many gate houses (12x12 buildings under the jetbridge bases) in order to expedite parts delivery when a mechanic needs them. Great idea on paper, but never worked in reality. They haven't been used in years, in fact, I think the tubes are being removed as they rebuild the apron areas along the concourse. Without needing access to this system there really isn't much practical need to have UA Stores there, the city could find space in the basement to swap to give you United. All parts deliveries are by truck or tractor now anyway, and would be able to get to the basement. I don't think Stores stocks spare engines or anything at this location anyway, anytime a spare is here it is delivered to the hangar. There are a few offices in that space also, but office space could be fit into this design still or relocated elsewhere.

Just an idea. Just imagine that building with plenty of glass for natural light, several floors with plenty of tables and restaurants to choose from. Would be nice.


I think that would be a great idea, the same thing could be done on A as well , the area south of center core is just offices on both concourse level and mezzanine level, I know the biggest thing holding up something like that is that the city does not have enough office space. I always thought it would be nice if DEN and UA worked together to get all of the offices/ breakrooms off of concourse level of B, it seems there is a walled off room every 2-3 gates. When you are on C it is noticeable how much more open the gate areas are, and how much better the sightlines are also.
 
SyracuseAvGeek
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:30 pm

Found this video of someone who did a trip report on a triangle route out of Denver:

https://youtu.be/WUTVjReD5PI

Didn’t know airlines still did these, how many routes like this is United airlines operating out of Denver and their other hubs?
"I haven't been everywhere yet, but it's on my list."
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:09 pm

Hello everyone, time for the October construction update.

A West
In the past few weeks, A West has made a lot of progress, for starters pictured below you can see that the building has reached its full length with the first layers of steel and should reach the goal of being topped out before the end of the year.
Image
Picture of the balcony at the end.
Image
Another big milestone was hit with the starting of the curtain wall construction. One thing that has stood out during the construction of the 4 projects is how the east vs west sides are being constructed. The west side projects were designed and built by one construction firm, while the east side by a different firm. The west side projects have had their curtain wall preassembled in one piece that is just hung on the outside of the building, this has allowed the exterior wall to be constructed at high speed and hung quickly. The east side is being assembled on site with the framing for the windows going up followed by the windows themselves, I don’t know what all the advantages and disadvantages are, but the prefabricated panels definitely seem to speed up construction.
Image
B West
This will be the last time this project is in the update as next month it will have it’s own post once it is open.
The patio is almost complete.
Image
The new deice facilities have been in use for a little while now.
Image
B GARDI
The ramp replacement project is also moving along on the NW side of B. As a refresher this project is replacing the ramp and the utilities for 8 gates on and started back in June. The first two gates should reopen in Dec or Jan with the rest of the gates opening every few months after. Here is an overview shot from the west side.
Image
B East
As mentioned above the east side is using a different construction method so the framing is still going up for the windows with a few columns of windows installed. Picture from the north side.
Image
C East.
Similar to B East the framing and windows continue to go in with most of the windows in until the first new subcore.
Zoomed in from the south.
Image
Full project from the south.
Image
Zoomed from the north with something out of place.
Image
 
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intotheair
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:19 pm

Thanks for sharing as always! Great to see the progress.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 7M9 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90 ——— AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:51 pm

Thank you for the updates!!! Any of the Great Hall?
I am me and no one else...so my opinions are mine
 
RainerBoeing777
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:46 am

if Norwegian stops flying to DEN, United could in the future fly to more European destinations such as AMS / FCO / CDG / DUB
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG - UA
 
CALMSP
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:31 am

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
if Norwegian stops flying to DEN, United could in the future fly to more European destinations such as AMS / FCO / CDG / DUB


the airport wants AMS/CDG, so I'd be sure the airport would go after AF/KL. UA would probably just add on its own, but that may be a while.
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:04 pm

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
Thank you for the updates!!! Any of the Great Hall?


Still working on the new framing for the ticketing pods.

East
Image
West
Image

This current phase is still on schedule and should be open before the end of next year.
 
f18raider
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:01 pm

Interesting to see AS at C51. Is this a permanent change?
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:40 pm

f18raider wrote:
Interesting to see AS at C51. Is this a permanent change?


I believe it was some sort of irregular ops, they may occur more often now that they have the Portland flight as well. In the past C38 was the overflow gate but now UA is using it. If SW ever needs to give up a gate on C, they always give up C51 as it is their normal overflow gate with only 1-2 flights a day, Spirit has used it in the past as well.
Image
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:53 pm

Thank you!! Awesome pictures and updates
I am me and no one else...so my opinions are mine
 
jhsusman
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:26 am

Confirmed: LH starting MUC next week while UA will handle FRA in early November. . . https://www.flydenver.com/sites/default ... estart.pdf
 
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intotheair
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:32 am

Interesting; I would not have guessed MUC would be the first one back. Some people in here even speculated whether MUC would come back at all. I also find it notable that UA is coming back on FRA before LH is.

No word yet on LHR, is there? BA always had the upper hand on DEN-LON but UA has been making a bigger push into LHR in recent years by acquiring more slots, including one to make DEN-LHR year round. I hope that LHR/LGW may return soon as the UK is one of the few countries Americans can visit (with a 14 day quarantine no less).
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 7M9 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90 ——— AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
AndoAv8R
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:17 pm

Interesting how LH will resume to MUC and not FRA since FRA was the original and seemed to be utilizing a 747 consistently year round for quite some time (until covid-19).

Is UA going to run a 777 to FRA or a 787?
 
CALMSP
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:02 pm

AndoAv8R wrote:
Interesting how LH will resume to MUC and not FRA since FRA was the original and seemed to be utilizing a 747 consistently year round for quite some time (until covid-19).

Is UA going to run a 777 to FRA or a 787?


well, LH still offers DEN-FRA with the UA flight, so LH doesn't lose the flight necessarily. DEN-FRA will still run on a 787.
 
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intotheair
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:08 am

I went down to the far end of B-West to see if I could see anything. There's not much to see as so much of the construction is behind temporary walls, though I did spot what appears to be new gate signage as seen in some of the renderings. It looks like perhaps the destination city will be in a small, narrow screen underneath the gate number, while I'm guessing some sort of advertising will be in the big screen above it. Does anyone know if the whole airport is going to be retrofitted?

Image

More new signage. I always thought the white-on-black signs were rather striking, though maybe the yellow is easier to spot? Reminds me of LHR and LGW.

Image

Denver's Sagrada Familia.

Image

I also find it amusing that there are still a handful of legacy CO-style gates in B-West.

Image
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 7M9 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90 ——— AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:08 am

Thank you for the pictures and updates! On a side note, someone needs to clean the vent and tiles around it.... LOL... DIRTY
I am me and no one else...so my opinions are mine
 
smokeybandit
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:00 am

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
Thank you for the pictures and updates! On a side note, someone needs to clean the vent and tiles around it.... LOL... DIRTY


That was my biggest takeaway from the pics, too
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:10 pm

intotheair wrote:
I went down to the far end of B-West to see if I could see anything. There's not much to see as so much of the construction is behind temporary walls, though I did spot what appears to be new gate signage as seen in some of the renderings. It looks like perhaps the destination city will be in a small, narrow screen underneath the gate number, while I'm guessing some sort of advertising will be in the big screen above it. Does anyone know if the whole airport is going to be retrofitted?

Image

More new signage. I always thought the white-on-black signs were rather striking, though maybe the yellow is easier to spot? Reminds me of LHR and LGW.

Image

Denver's Sagrada Familia.

Image

I also find it amusing that there are still a handful of legacy CO-style gates in B-West.

Image


As far as the signage, the airport should switch to the yellow style to match international standards and make the signs more visible. Another nice feature of the new signs is that they are LED backlit and the actual signs themselves are replaceable, hopefully this will result in less stickers on the signs as the airport changes over the years. The new gate signs will be standard at all non-commuter gates. You are correct the city will be on the bottom, but it should show destination images when the gate is in use. It will show ads or other graphics when not in use. The old red LCD panels above the jetway door will also get updated to this:
Image
The ceiling tiles will be replaced with the concourse refresh project and the HVAC system cleaned.
 
GmoneyCO
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:42 pm

DEN1895 wrote:
The ceiling tiles will be replaced with the concourse refresh project and the HVAC system cleaned.


Thank goodness, this has needed to occur for a long long time.
 
mkorpal333
Posts: 69
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:11 pm

DEN1895 wrote:
intotheair wrote:
I went down to the far end of B-West to see if I could see anything. There's not much to see as so much of the construction is behind temporary walls, though I did spot what appears to be new gate signage as seen in some of the renderings. It looks like perhaps the destination city will be in a small, narrow screen underneath the gate number, while I'm guessing some sort of advertising will be in the big screen above it. Does anyone know if the whole airport is going to be retrofitted?

Image

More new signage. I always thought the white-on-black signs were rather striking, though maybe the yellow is easier to spot? Reminds me of LHR and LGW.

Image

Denver's Sagrada Familia.

Image

I also find it amusing that there are still a handful of legacy CO-style gates in B-West.

Image


As far as the signage, the airport should switch to the yellow style to match international standards and make the signs more visible. Another nice feature of the new signs is that they are LED backlit and the actual signs themselves are replaceable, hopefully this will result in less stickers on the signs as the airport changes over the years. The new gate signs will be standard at all non-commuter gates. You are correct the city will be on the bottom, but it should show destination images when the gate is in use. It will show ads or other graphics when not in use. The old red LCD panels above the jetway door will also get updated to this:
Image
The ceiling tiles will be replaced with the concourse refresh project and the HVAC system cleaned.


Is HVAC cleaning not a regular maintenance item?
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4605
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:14 pm

Based on the disrepair of the airport in general, there doesn't seem to be any regular maintenance items. They just wait until something gets bad enough that they have to replace them. Just take a look at the disgusting state of the bathrooms and the perpetually broken escalators and elevators. The money for the great hall project would have been better spent on a top-bottom refresh of the concourses.
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:26 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
Based on the disrepair of the airport in general, there doesn't seem to be any regular maintenance items. They just wait until something gets bad enough that they have to replace them. Just take a look at the disgusting state of the bathrooms and the perpetually broken escalators and elevators. The money for the great hall project would have been better spent on a top-bottom refresh of the concourses.


Just adding that 560 million dollars has already been approved and construction companies selected to do everything you just listed. Work should begin before the end of the year, I do agree that more upkeep could help things not looking so dingy.
 
LASVegan
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:06 am

DEN1895 wrote:
I do agree that the leadership team should be held accountable, but I also think the airport is going to hurt themselves more in the long run by not increasing the budget to complete the project how it should have been done the first time without as much of the extra add-ons that were not needed. The terminal is over capacity and does have some major safety issues, in addition to most of the mechanical systems nearing the end of their life. If they go cheap now, I fear that major renovations will be needed again in 5-10 years due to Kim Day trying to keep her word. If they use the remaining funds to finish the ticketing areas for the other airlines they could then redo security in the future with little disruption in 3-5 years once things start picking up again and the airport has funding again.


Sounds like the typical Denver transportation public works curse where every project seems to come in over budget, way delayed, and as a water downed version of the initial vision.

1) DIA opened 2.5 years late, $2bn over budget and about 2/3s the size it was supposed to be on opening day (though now it will be the size it was supposed to be with the concourse expantions).

2) the Fastracks rail project which is running about 1.8 billion over budget with almost every line opening 2-3 years late and still without the rail link to Boulder and Longmont that won’t come until the middle of the century if at all.

3) Union Station which, while opening on time and on budget, was a watered down version of the original vision. Trains were supposed to be below grade to allow development over the rails and allow pedestrian movement at grade instead of people having to use bridges. The light rail was supposed to run in a subway to the station. Now the light rail lines end 2 blocks from the station.

4) The Flatiron Flyer which was supposed to be full BRT from Denver to Boulder but ended up like any express bus service in the country.

5) the Colfax Avenue BRT which was supposed to open in 2022 but now we may not see until 2030 and will likely not be full BRT as originally envisaged.

And now here we are facing a watered down Great Hall project. Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love this city and do believe that even the watered down version of our transportation projects are still far better than transport projects in any other city Denver’s size in the USA. Just annoyed by the over promising and under delivering.
 
DEN1895
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:50 am

LASVegan wrote:
DEN1895 wrote:
I do agree that the leadership team should be held accountable, but I also think the airport is going to hurt themselves more in the long run by not increasing the budget to complete the project how it should have been done the first time without as much of the extra add-ons that were not needed. The terminal is over capacity and does have some major safety issues, in addition to most of the mechanical systems nearing the end of their life. If they go cheap now, I fear that major renovations will be needed again in 5-10 years due to Kim Day trying to keep her word. If they use the remaining funds to finish the ticketing areas for the other airlines they could then redo security in the future with little disruption in 3-5 years once things start picking up again and the airport has funding again.


Sounds like the typical Denver transportation public works curse where every project seems to come in over budget, way delayed, and as a water downed version of the initial vision.

1) DIA opened 2.5 years late, $2bn over budget and about 2/3s the size it was supposed to be on opening day (though now it will be the size it was supposed to be with the concourse expantions).

2) the Fastracks rail project which is running about 1.8 billion over budget with almost every line opening 2-3 years late and still without the rail link to Boulder and Longmont that won’t come until the middle of the century if at all.

3) Union Station which, while opening on time and on budget, was a watered down version of the original vision. Trains were supposed to be below grade to allow development over the rails and allow pedestrian movement at grade instead of people having to use bridges. The light rail was supposed to run in a subway to the station. Now the light rail lines end 2 blocks from the station.

4) The Flatiron Flyer which was supposed to be full BRT from Denver to Boulder but ended up like any express bus service in the country.

5) the Colfax Avenue BRT which was supposed to open in 2022 but now we may not see until 2030 and will likely not be full BRT as originally envisaged.

And now here we are facing a watered down Great Hall project. Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love this city and do believe that even the watered down version of our transportation projects are still far better than transport projects in any other city Denver’s size in the USA. Just annoyed by the over promising and under delivering.


I agree with most of what you said, I think the biggest issue is that agencies in Denver tend to over estimate what can be done with the money they have available. The Great Hall would have never been able to be completed with the original $660 million, with the first of 5 phases costing over $200 million alone, I have heard estimates that the project as originally envisioned would have cost closer to $1.5 billion. I think Fastracks did the same thing.
 
smokeybandit
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:48 pm

Isn't every large scale American transportation project over budget, way delayed and under scope?
 
LASVegan
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:29 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:01 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
Isn't every large scale American transportation project over budget, way delayed and under scope?


Touché. And at least Denver has completed some very ambitious transport projects. Even if not quite at their originally promised scope, Denver has a rail system and an airport that metros twice it’s size are envious of.
 
LASVegan
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:29 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:01 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
Isn't every large scale American transportation project over budget, way delayed and under scope?


Touché. And at least Denver has completed some very ambitious transport projects. Even if not quite at their originally promised scope, Denver has a rail system and an airport that metros twice it’s size are envious of.
 
DEN1895
Posts: 297
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:21 am

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:11 pm

September passenger numbers are now available:

Overall the airport was down 51.3% for the month and 53.0% for the year, domestic is down 49.8% and international 87.3%. It seems the airport has plateaued at roughly 50% of last years traffic, the last week of October saw the airport at 49% of last years traffic.

Next stats for each airline for Sept:
UA: 1,141,341 (-57.3%)
WN: 881,028 (-43.5%)
F9: 490,572 (-38.7%)
AA: 164,413 (-38.9%)
DL: 112,338 (-64.1%)

YTD stats for each airline.
UA: 10,072,026 (-56.5%)
WN: 7,481,779 (-46.9%)
F9: 3,328,404 (-47.3%)
AA: 1,274,277 (-48.2%)
DL: 1,081,747 (-61.1%)

Volaris actually had a small increase of 0.3% YOY, making it the only airline to have an increase for Sept. Based on current trends, the airport should finish the year with 33 million passengers, this will be less passengers than the airport processed back in 1997
 
jhsusman
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:21 pm

Looks like LH is now pulling the plug on DEN-MUC again. . .
 
joeblow10
Posts: 617
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:28 pm

jhsusman wrote:
Looks like LH is now pulling the plug on DEN-MUC again. . .


Frankly it made zero sense in the first place, unless there was cargo demand there to fill the plane on that alone. Who is flying US-EU right now? And even amongst those who are - how big is the crowd that needs to fly DEN-MUC. The few folks that do can be routed via EWR and ORD... imo
 
775899
Posts: 1033
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:52 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
jhsusman wrote:
Looks like LH is now pulling the plug on DEN-MUC again. . .


Frankly it made zero sense in the first place, unless there was cargo demand there to fill the plane on that alone. Who is flying US-EU right now? And even amongst those who are - how big is the crowd that needs to fly DEN-MUC. The few folks that do can be routed via EWR and ORD... imo


Are you saying even post-pandemic it doesn't make sense?
 
joeblow10
Posts: 617
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:53 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
jhsusman wrote:
Looks like LH is now pulling the plug on DEN-MUC again. . .


Frankly it made zero sense in the first place, unless there was cargo demand there to fill the plane on that alone. Who is flying US-EU right now? And even amongst those who are - how big is the crowd that needs to fly DEN-MUC. The few folks that do can be routed via EWR and ORD... imo


Are you saying even post-pandemic it doesn't make sense?


No right now. They had planned to bring it back in just a few weeks if I understood correctly. Might make sense again come late 2021 or early 2022 but it makes no sense to be flying it right now.

UA and DEN-FRA doesn’t make a lot of sense to me either at the moment - but at least it makes more sense than MUC...
 
775899
Posts: 1033
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:00 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:

Frankly it made zero sense in the first place, unless there was cargo demand there to fill the plane on that alone. Who is flying US-EU right now? And even amongst those who are - how big is the crowd that needs to fly DEN-MUC. The few folks that do can be routed via EWR and ORD... imo


Are you saying even post-pandemic it doesn't make sense?


No right now. They had planned to bring it back in just a few weeks if I understood correctly. Might make sense again come late 2021 or early 2022 but it makes no sense to be flying it right now.

UA and DEN-FRA doesn’t make a lot of sense to me either at the moment - but at least it makes more sense than MUC...


Ah, I see. I misread your initial post.

Nevertheless, could their be a case for not bringing back DEN-MUC at all even after everything is over? With international travel going to be down for years and FRA being the primary hub anyway, couldn't MUC simply be routed via ORD and DEN just does double daily FRA (one LH, one UA)?
 
joeblow10
Posts: 617
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:22 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:

Are you saying even post-pandemic it doesn't make sense?


No right now. They had planned to bring it back in just a few weeks if I understood correctly. Might make sense again come late 2021 or early 2022 but it makes no sense to be flying it right now.

UA and DEN-FRA doesn’t make a lot of sense to me either at the moment - but at least it makes more sense than MUC...


Ah, I see. I misread your initial post.

Nevertheless, could their be a case for not bringing back DEN-MUC at all even after everything is over? With international travel going to be down for years and FRA being the primary hub anyway, couldn't MUC simply be routed via ORD and DEN just does double daily FRA (one LH, one UA)?


I totally agree actually - I was intrigued (more like... very confused) to see them even put it back on the schedule for this fall. So either it performs very well for them, or the planning department has no clue what they are doing. I’ll assume it’s the former but who knows. I would guess DEN-FRA will come back on LH pretty quick but who knows, maybe UA will just take that over for the next couple years and LH will bring back MUC rather quickly when things recover
 
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TWA772LR
Posts: 7653
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:03 pm

LASVegan wrote:
smokeybandit wrote:
Isn't every large scale American transportation project over budget, way delayed and under scope?


Touché. And at least Denver has completed some very ambitious transport projects. Even if not quite at their originally promised scope, Denver has a rail system and an airport that metros twice it’s size are envious of.

Not to derail the thread, but Denver needs to have the same, fast and big train on the A line heading to Parker and Castle Rock. I live in Lone Tree and my RTD choices to DIA are train to Arapahoe and take the express bus that stops at 9 Mile, or take the slow train all the way to Peoria and wait for the fast train. And the bullet train idea from Ft. Collins to Pueblo is ridiculous at best. I believe it should happen if all the states got together to make their own regional HSR and work together to have them all connected. At least Texas Central (which I do agree with) is HSR over a long driving distance that connects 2 cities of millions of people and billions in economic activity, vs Colorado's proposal which can be done with having the A line kind of train go from Union Station to Colorado Springs via Castle Rock.

Back on topic, I'm very glad to see the expansion going smoothly. I'm also excited to see the competition going forward with the respective airlines expansion. Has anyone heard from F9 of their latest DEN plans?
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
DEN1895
Posts: 297
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Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:35 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:

No right now. They had planned to bring it back in just a few weeks if I understood correctly. Might make sense again come late 2021 or early 2022 but it makes no sense to be flying it right now.

UA and DEN-FRA doesn’t make a lot of sense to me either at the moment - but at least it makes more sense than MUC...


Ah, I see. I misread your initial post.

Nevertheless, could their be a case for not bringing back DEN-MUC at all even after everything is over? With international travel going to be down for years and FRA being the primary hub anyway, couldn't MUC simply be routed via ORD and DEN just does double daily FRA (one LH, one UA)?


I totally agree actually - I was intrigued (more like... very confused) to see them even put it back on the schedule for this fall. So either it performs very well for them, or the planning department has no clue what they are doing. I’ll assume it’s the former but who knows. I would guess DEN-FRA will come back on LH pretty quick but who knows, maybe UA will just take that over for the next couple years and LH will bring back MUC rather quickly when things recover


Per the schedule update today LH is adding back FRA in December in place of the MUC flight, operating 3 times a week on Mon, Wed, and Fri. So far I know the FRA flight has had twice as many passenger each day, but it is usually under 100 total. The MUC flight was doing very well in the few years it operated before COVID, it went from seasonal to year-round quickly, and from an A330 to an A340 to an A350.
 
xjetflyer2001
Posts: 322
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:20 pm

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:39 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:

Frankly it made zero sense in the first place, unless there was cargo demand there to fill the plane on that alone. Who is flying US-EU right now? And even amongst those who are - how big is the crowd that needs to fly DEN-MUC. The few folks that do can be routed via EWR and ORD... imo


Are you saying even post-pandemic it doesn't make sense?


No right now. They had planned to bring it back in just a few weeks if I understood correctly. Might make sense again come late 2021 or early 2022 but it makes no sense to be flying it right now.

UA and DEN-FRA doesn’t make a lot of sense to me either at the moment - but at least it makes more sense than MUC...


LH DEN-MUC flight had already started back up as of about a week and a half ago, 3 days a week I believe. They are stopping it again? I thought it was strange to bringing it back when Europe is basically shut down
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3658
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Re: Denver Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:15 am

DEN-europe right now makes absolutely no sense and sadly, nothing on the horizon for the next 3 months minimum.
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